【紧急投票】改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实 - Parenting版

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Parenting版 - 【紧急投票】改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实

相关主题
● 紧急动员：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校的机会	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的七个常见误区
● 紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票，来捍卫你孩子公平竞争 (转载)	● 人心齐泰山移: 美国高法将重审大学招生中的种族歧视问题 (转载)
● 我们需要用政治来消除孩子爬藤的人为障碍吗?	● 其实亚洲人提不出来比白人更公平的议案的
● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)
● 紧急投票：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)
● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.	● All Asians must stand up against racial reference
● 为了您的孩子,紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票	● Ivies should discriminate against Asians
● 紧急动员: 决战最高法院!!!!!!!! 请投票捍卫你孩子公平竞争入!!!!!!!!!!!	● 80-20关于亚裔在大学入学受歧视的正式文宣

相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: asian话题: racial话题: americans话题: sat

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a********k
发帖数: 32

【紧急投票动员】改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实
决战最高法院，请投庄严一票，来捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校的机会
请置顶，请在以下网页签名，请转发！
http://admin.80-20nj.info/cgi/80/e?l=8/11e/f&w=no
-----------------
历史性的时刻已经到来了：2/21/2012，美国最高法院决定审理用“族裔”的理由来提
高亚裔和白人高校入学门槛的做法是否违宪。您--关爱孩子未来的父母--现在就可以花
一分钟时间来帮助孩子增大孩子上他们理想大学的机会。请您立即投票赞成（FOR） 80
-20全美亚裔教育基金会的民调书，清楚明白地表明亚裔在这件案子上的立场。
资料显示，亚裔在美国要比其他族裔成绩优秀许多才能上同样的学校。要上同样的名校
，亚裔SAT要考1550分，白人1410分，而非裔只需要1100分*（英文和数学满分是1600）
。亚裔入学这么高的门槛使得许多亚裔的大学申请者非常害怕，有些干脆拒绝列出他们
是亚裔—其实学校一看名字还是能知道哪些孩子是亚裔。。。
下面几周内，我们需要征集到至少五万个签名，让结果写入Amicus Curiae (“法庭之
友”的文书)作为证据资料递交最高法院。我们要表明亚裔赞同以考生的综合素质（而
不是族裔）作为美国高校的招生标准。综合素质包括申请学生现在的学术成绩和未来可
能的成功潜力，例如申请人是否能在不利的生活环境中仍能不懈努力等 (i.e.
Overcome adversity under socio-economic constraint). 我们相信这样的定位能给
所有的考生提供一个公平竞争的机会，也能给学校足够的弹性来制定他们的教育的目标。
之所以要五万个签名来支持这项活动是因为现在最高法院不知道亚裔作为少数族裔在这
个案例上是支持还是反对高校取消‘族裔’作为录取标准的。通过我们初步的调查，绝
大多数的亚裔是支持取消‘族裔’这个录取指标的。但是我们需要确实的数据来证明亚
裔的立场，所以80-20全美亚裔教育基金会设计了这个民调书。
如果您愿意让你孩子抬头做人，在申请书上大大方方承认自己是亚裔，而不惧怕会受歧
视而上不了理想的学校的话，请现在就到下面的网站来签名赞成80-20的民调书，并请
您的其他的亚裔朋友都来签名。父母请各签一个名，有自由意志的学龄孩子也可以签名
！（必须是绿卡或公民才可以投票，谢谢合作。）
时间紧迫，谢谢您支持签名和帮助转发！
(*Source: "No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite
College Admission and Campus Life" by Thomas Espenshade (Princeton
University Press, 2009)
----
紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票
捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校的机会
A historical moment has arrived. On February 21, 2012, the Supreme Court decided to review a pending lawsuit that challenges the prevalence use of strong racial preferences in college admission.
Please take this survey to project your voice to the Supreme Court.
http://admin.80-20nj.info/cgi/80/e?l=8/11e/f&w=no
Your children’s future is literally in your hands!
Currently, Asian Americans are being held at a much higher college admission standard. To receive equal consideration for the top colleges, out of a 1600 SAT maximum (verbal & math)
1550 for Asians = 1410 for Whites = 1100 for Blacks.
The strong racial preferences instilled such a fear among Asian American applicants that many refuse to state their ethnicities in college applications. (Well, most of our LAST NAMES are a dead giveaway!) If you want your children to face such a harsh reality, then do nothing. Otherwise please take ONE minute to cast your vote.
We aim to gather 50,000 signatures and submit this national survey results to the Supreme Court. We will submit an Amicus Curiae (“friend of the court” brief) advocating a race-neutral, merit-based college admission policy; with broadly defined merit to include current scholastic achievement and evaluated future potential of an applicant. This nuanced position would provide fair and equitable opportunity to all applicants; while still provide the schools broad discretion in defining education objectives.
Please fire up all your Asian American friends and families to vote. The clock is ticking; the deadline to submit a legal briefing is less than two months away. Every single vote counts. Yes, parents should sign as two separate individuals, school children counts too if they understand the concept and have an opinion.
"YOU must be the change you wish to see in the world” — Mahatma Gandhi
What is at stake?
For many Asian American parents, there is no larger issue at stake. We spend tens (even hundreds) of thousands of dollars, devote most evenings and weekends over 18 years, scarifying and enduring all hardships in order to give our children the best college preparation, only to find out that we are a “wrong minority” whose qualifications are summarily discounted, by as much as 450 points out of 1600 SAT total, in order to make room for the others. The others have decided long ago, without our consent and without our knowledge, that such reverse discrimination is “GOOD” for our kids and call it a “celebration of diversity”. We beg to disagree: The very American ideal of Equal Opportunity, afforded to people of all races and ethnicities by the “Equal Protection Clause” in 14th Amendment of the US constitution, must prevail.
“Racial balancing is not transformed from ‘patently unconstitutional’ to a compelling state interest simply by relabeling it “racial diversity’”. — Chief Justice John Roberts
Why the survey?
The Supreme Court takes up contentious issues and set legal precedents for the lower courts. The rulings are based on the Justices’ lifelong personal experiences, available factual data, and their interpretation of the US constitution.
There have been insidious attempts to confuse the college admissions issue by labeling racial preferences as a struggle between the “white” and the “minorities”. It is NOT, Asian Americans have been used as a sacrificial lamb to paper over a deep-rooted social problem: large and persistent achievement gaps among racial groups. The Supreme Court might as well be confused, considering FOUR Asian American organizations have already filed Amicus Curiae saying Asian Americans all love racial preferences in college admissions. This survey will set the record straight: NO, the vast majority of Asian Americans DO NOT support racial preferences. Our internal opinion poll shows Asian Americans prefer a race-neutral and merit-based policy by a 10:1 margin. This national survey will produce NEW factual data for the Supreme Court to consider, blocking a potent argument by our opponents. Broad Asian American participation is critical.
“I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” — Dr. Martin Luther King
Why Amicus brief?
Amicus Curiae (“friend of the court” brief) is a legal process to influence the Court decision by someone who is not a party to the lawsuit but has a vested interest in the outcome. This third party volunteers to offer pertinent information to assist the Court in decision making. There is a two-month window during which Amicus can be filed, starting from the date the Court takes a case. The clock starts ticking on February 21, 2012.
Why now?
Only 5% of the US population is Asian Americans. Normally fractious and indifferent, we are mostly invisible. This Supreme Court case is closely contested, which enables us to tip the balance through a cohesive action. It is equivalent to a minority exerting a disproportionally influence by throwing a block vote in a tight election.
The opportunity for the Supreme Court to review college racial preferences is very rare. It only happened twice before: In 1978 Bakker and 2003 Grutter, the decisions were extremely tight, with 5:4 votes in favor of the schools. The current Court is more hostile to racial preferences. We can tip the balance by influencing the opinion of just ONE Justice through unity and hard work.
A Supreme Court ruling can have a multi-decade influence across the country. If we do not act NOW, it would be too late for all our children who are already born today.
Can we win?
We have a > 50% chance to win if we act in unity and with determination.
There are eight Justices (The ninth, Justice Kagan has recused herself): Four (Alito, Roberts, Thomas, Scalia) are reliable opponent to racial preferences, and Three (Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayor) are reliable supporter of racial preferences, this leaves Justice Kennedy the key swing vote.
Three likely scenarios:
1) Kennedy rules in favor of racial preferences: In a 4:4 tie, the Fifth Circuit court ruling stands, the status quo is maintained for the next two decades. We LOSE BIG.
2) Kennedy strictly limits the use of racial preferences: In a 5:3 ruling, the schools would be under “strict scrutiny” to justify any use of racial preferences. We have a significant win.
3) Kennedy upholds the 14th Amendment “Equal Protection Clause”: In a 5:3 ruling, all racial preferences are banned. We WIN BIG.
Don’t be tricked
Be aware of the trick questions from racial preferences supporters:
“Are you against affirmative action?” (Implying you are not progressive)
“Affirmative Action (AA)” is a toxic and much abused phrase. It means totally different things to different people that it is completely meaningless to answer yes or no without explicit definition. Check out the official Department of Labor definition: “take affirmative action to ensure that all individuals have an equal opportunity for employment, without regard to race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability”. The original meaning of AA is “stop past racial discrimination now or face penalty.” In common practice, however, AA has been stretched beyond imagination and morphed into “apply reverse discrimination to others so that the some preferred minorities can be equally represented despite of lesser qualifications.” In addition, AA means “racial” to some, “socioeconomic” to the others. Please answer the question using words other than AA. Otherwise your opponent would take your yes/no, switch the meaning, and insist you said so.
“What? You don’t support diversity?” (Implying you are narrow minded)
Diversity is more than skin deep: We support a diversity of ideas and socioeconomic backgrounds, which can be achieved through a sharp focus on individual character strengths without resorting to race and ethnicity. For example, the schools could use a combination of socioeconomic conditions and performance of a student within such constraint to identify high-potential individuals. If a socioeconomically disadvantaged group produces a disproportionally large percentage of students in this category, and therefore disproportionally benefits from such a preference, so be it. The key departure from the current practice is that individual efforts are needed to gain admission, rather than relying on a caricature of group characteristics, such as race and ethnicity. After all, a poor African American kid and a poor Asian American kid from equally socioeconomically disadvantaged family backgrounds should compete based on their personal drives to succeed despite of the adverse conditions. Racial preferences disproportionally benefit suburban wealth minorities who happen to have the “right” skin color, at the expense of their poor brethren and all others.
“What? You don’t support equal opportunity for under-represented minority?”
We support Equal Opportunity, we oppose Equal Representation. Equal opportunity is to provide opportunity consistent with one’s qualifications and let him to rise or fall based on performance. It doesn’t imply equal outcome. Equal representation, on the other hand, is to make the outcome proportional to the population regardless of one’s qualifications. It insists on equal outcome, which is Communism in disguise. Confusing the two dichotomous concepts would drag us into gratuitous battles against our community interest.
Equal Representation is also known as “Racial Balancing”. After being consistently ruled as unconstitutional, its supporters now call it “Racial Diversity”. After all, who does not love diversity?
“Let’s show solidarity with other minorities in our struggle with the white majority.”
Viewing everything through the 1960s prism of black vs. white struggle is not only antiquated but downright dangerous. The real issue is some people used Asian Americans as a pawn in a proxy battle to achieve racial balancing. The interests of four million Asian American children were sacrificed for someone else’s gain, all without our knowledge or consent. They have the right to sacrifice their own children’s futures if they truly believe in their causes, but they have NO right to do this to YOUR children unless YOU give the consent. This is the reason we launch this survey project to hear YOUR voice. Please cast your solemn vote.
“Do you NOT have any compassion toward under-privileged people?”
Quite contrary, we do. True compassion is to attack the root cause of the problem. Do you help a cancer patient by putting on a Band-Aid, and then wear it like an honor badge proclaiming “I helped him”? You are killing him by giving false hope while delaying real treatment. The patient needs chemotherapy, which is painful, lengthy but effective. The root-causes of the low academic achievement in some ethnic groups are the lack of parent involvements, low community expectation, and poor quality of the K-12 education. Achieving success requires hard work, persistency and sacrifice. It is already too late by the time a student gets out of the high school. Giving out college admissions on a platter only feeds entitlement. Please read the following reports to appreciate how racial preferences actually hurts the intended beneficiaries, with “academic mismatch” leading to self-segregation and less classroom diversity [1], undermining minority enrollment in science and engineering [2], reducing the graduation rate [3], and damaging the minority pipeline in academia [4].
[1] “The Role of Ethnicity in Choosing and Leaving Science in Highly Selective Institutions”, R. Elliott et. al. 37 Research in Higher Education 681 (1996)
[2] “Encouraging Minority Students to Pursue Science, Technology, Engineering and Math Careers”, US Commission on Civil Rights, Briefing Report, Oct 2010.
[3] “Are Black/White Disparities in Graduation and Passing the Bar Getting Worse, or Better?” by R. Sander. http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_legal_studi/2006/09/ sander_2_black_.html
[4] “The Occupational Choices of High-Achieving Minority Students” (Harvard University Press 2003)
“Race is just ‘one of the many factors’, a ‘tie breaker’, a ‘nudge factor’.”
What a patent lie! Study after study show racial preferences as a dominant factor in college admissions. If all other credentials are equal, Asian-Americans need to score 140 points more than whites, 270 points higher than Hispanics, and 450 points above African-Americans out of a maximum 1600 on the math and reading SAT to have the same chance of admission to a top private college. Please show any data to the contrary before making the “tie breaker” argument again.
“Asian Americans lack personal appeal, which offset their academic performance.”
We challenge the colleges to open up their admission files for social study before propagating racial stereotype. Asian stereotyping like this helped keep Jeremy Lin on the bench until his coach ran out of other “warm bodies” to play. It is even sadder that some Asian Americans also buy into such crap.
Do you see the sinister cycle? Raise the bar on Asian Americans => Force us Asian Americans to work harder to achieve more => Increase the difference between the ethnic groups => You folks must be academic robots => Robots are weird, lacks personal appeal => Justify the decision to raise the bar even higher to make room for the others.
“We are a ‘model minority’, need to work harder, achieve more for the same recognition.”
Just say NO! We want equal opportunity based on our qualifications, as enshrined in the “Equal Protect Clause” of the 14th Amendment.
The “model minority” stereotype has inflicted considerable damages to the Asian American community by justifying the exclusion of assistance programs to the needy and discounting the achievements of all individuals. College admission is just one such example.
“I had a 3.7 undergraduate GPA. As an Asian I didn't qualify for loans or grants as I was not an 'under-rep' minority so worked 3 jobs to get through school. One of them was to tutor 'under-rep' minorities that usually had GPA in the 1's and 2's and had an overall graduation rate of 30%. Just lowering the bar to absolute rock bottom to meet diversity quotas is absolutely, positively absurd. They never graduate...because most weren't qualified to go. Fix the problem in K-12 because it's pointless by college.” —BrandonH, St. Louis, upon reading “Some Asian’s College Strategy: Don’t Check ‘Asian’”
“You are stirring up racial tension by talking about such a sensitive topic.”
Just the opposite, we ask the society to pay lesser attention to race and more to individual qualifications. American may have been the only developed nation to even allow the race question to be asked in college applications. Canada, Austrian, and the European nations DO NOT ask this question. Why are we so fixated in insisting to identify every ingredient in the melting pot, if we do not intent to use such data for the purpose of differential treatment?
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” — Chief Justice John Roberts
“Sky will fall on African Americans and Latinos if the Supreme Court bans racial preferences”
Why would racial preferences proponents refuse to look at the real-life data? 40% of the US population lives in states in which public universities are not using preferences. Has the sky fallen in these states? The best example is California. After Proposition 209 was passed in 1996 banning racial preferences, there was an initial drop in Blacks and Latinos enrollment. The enrollment returned to the highest pre-1996 level in 2002, increased another 40% by 2007, together with increased socioeconomic diversification and improved classroom integration. Through a focus on improved K-12 education, the number of academically strong minority students has also increased remarkably. This is exactly the right approach: Forcing everyone into a race to the top, rather than pulling everyone down to the bottom. The proponents of racial preferences only want to advertise what happened immediately after Prop 209, and refuse to acknowledge what happened afterward.

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

这个我就不太明白了。什么时候民意/请愿会影响高院裁决的结果了？

m*****i
发帖数: 1829

support!

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

: 【紧急投票动员】改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实
: 决战最高法院，请投庄严一票，来捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校的机会
: 请置顶，请在以下网页签名，请转发！
: http://admin.80-20nj.info/cgi/80/e?l=8/11e/f&w=no
: -----------------
: 历史性的时刻已经到来了：2/21/2012，美国最高法院决定审理用“族裔”的理由来提
: 高亚裔和白人高校入学门槛的做法是否违宪。您--关爱孩子未来的父母--现在就可以花
: 一分钟时间来帮助孩子增大孩子上他们理想大学的机会。请您立即投票赞成（FOR） 80
: -20全美亚裔教育基金会的民调书，清楚明白地表明亚裔在这件案子上的立场。
: 资料显示，亚裔在美国要比其他族裔成绩优秀许多才能上同样的学校。要上同样的名校

d****o
发帖数: 3197

?
2/21/2012已经过去一周了呀

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

a*w
发帖数: 4495

高考构成了对低智商人群的歧视。

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

g********g
发帖数: 2172

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/us/justices-to-hear-case-on-a

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

s*******t
发帖数: 7746

2/21不是deadline，现在还可以投
记得是选投票赞成（FOR）

【在 d****o 的大作中提到】

: ?
: 2/21/2012已经过去一周了呀
:
: 80

B******1
发帖数: 9094

If inter-racial marriages happen at a faster rate, there would not be any
need for such petitions.

x**s
发帖数: 1085

2/21是法庭开始审理这个议案。。。

【在 d****o 的大作中提到】

: ?
: 2/21/2012已经过去一周了呀
:
: 80

n****y
发帖数: 6260

zan

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: If inter-racial marriages happen at a faster rate, there would not be any
: need for such petitions.

相关主题
● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的七个常见误区
● 为了您的孩子,紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票	● 人心齐泰山移: 美国高法将重审大学招生中的种族歧视问题 (转载)
● 紧急动员: 决战最高法院!!!!!!!! 请投票捍卫你孩子公平竞争入!!!!!!!!!!!	● 其实亚洲人提不出来比白人更公平的议案的
进入Parenting版参与讨论

n***p
发帖数: 7668

除非人类进行布朗运动，而且随便碰见一个异性就无任何保护和避孕措施的交配一下，
否则种族问题是永远无法解决的，不管个别人智商多高，多天才。

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: If inter-racial marriages happen at a faster rate, there would not be any
: need for such petitions.

a********k
发帖数: 32

这个案子已经有被告和原告，已经到了最高法庭。我们现在刚好可以搭顺风车，用民意调查的结果，请好的律师来准备“法律之友”的文件来影响法官的意见。最高法院需要有数据支持才能更好的做决定。
Why Amicus brief?
Amicus Curiae (“friend of the court” brief) is a legal process to
influence the Court decision by someone who is not a party to the lawsuit
but has a vested interest in the outcome. This third party volunteers to
offer pertinent information to assist the Court in decision making. There
is a two-month window during which Amicus can be filed, starting from the
date the Court takes a case. The clock starts ticking on February 21, 2012.

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 这个我就不太明白了。什么时候民意/请愿会影响高院裁决的结果了？

a********k
发帖数: 32

为什么要筹集到5万个签名呢？
现在已经有4个亚裔组织发了‘法庭之友’的文书表示亚裔作为少数族裔是支持‘racial-based' admission policy的。这直接影响到了大部分亚裔的利益。如果我们能征集到5万个签名的话，就能把他们的嘴堵住，让最高法院有实实在在的数据来表明我们大部分亚裔的真正立场。
Why the survey?
The Supreme Court takes up contentious issues and set legal precedents for
the lower courts. The rulings are based on the Justices’ lifelong personal
experiences, available factual data, and their interpretation of the US
constitution.
There have been insidious attempts to confuse the college admissions issue
by labeling racial preferences as a struggle between the “white” and the
“minorities”. It is NOT, Asian Americans have been used as a sacrificial
lamb to paper over a deep-rooted social problem: large and persistent
achievement gaps among racial groups. The Supreme Court might as well be
confused, considering FOUR Asian American organizations have already filed
Amicus Curiae saying Asian Americans all love racial preferences in college
admissions. This survey will set the record straight: NO, the vast majority
of Asian Americans DO NOT support racial preferences. Our internal opinion
poll shows Asian Americans prefer a race-neutral and merit-based policy by
a 10:1 margin. This national survey will produce NEW factual data for the
Supreme Court to consider, blocking a potent argument by our opponents.
Broad Asian American participation is critical.

a********k
发帖数: 32

Why now?
Only 5% of the US population is Asian Americans. Normally fractious and
indifferent, we are mostly invisible. This Supreme Court case is closely
contested, which enables us to tip the balance through a cohesive action.
It is equivalent to a minority exerting a disproportionally influence by
throwing a block vote in a tight election.
The opportunity for the Supreme Court to review college racial preferences
is very rare. It only happened twice before: In 1978 Bakker and 2003
Grutter, the decisions were extremely tight, with 5:4 votes in favor of the
schools. The current Court is more hostile to racial preferences. We can
tip the balance by influencing the opinion of just ONE Justice through unity
and hard work.
A Supreme Court ruling can have a multi-decade influence across the country.
If we do not act NOW, it would be too late for all our children who are
already born today.

a********k
发帖数: 32

我们是在瞎折腾吗？
不是！我们这次的胜算超过50%。据分析，我们真正需要影响的其实只有一个最高法官。
Can we win?
We have a > 50% chance to win if we act in unity and with determination.
There are eight Justices (The ninth, Justice Kagan has recused herself):
Four (Alito, Roberts, Thomas, Scalia) are reliable opponent to racial
preferences, and Three (Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayor) are reliable supporter
of racial preferences, this leaves Justice Kennedy the key swing vote.
Three likely scenarios:
1) Kennedy rules in favor of racial preferences: In a 4:4 tie, the Fifth
Circuit court ruling stands, the status quo is maintained for the next two
decades. We LOSE BIG.
2) Kennedy strictly limits the use of racial preferences: In a 5:3 ruling,
the schools would be under “strict scrutiny” to justify any use of racial
preferences. We have a significant win.
3) Kennedy upholds the 14th Amendment “Equal Protection Clause”: In a 5:3
ruling, all racial preferences are banned. We WIN BIG.

a********k
发帖数: 32

Since neither your son or my kids are inter-racial, and we cannot claim them
to be of other races, I will try my best to make an impact in overturning
the race-based admission policy which for sure will hurt the chance for our
children in getting into their dream schools.

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: If inter-racial marriages happen at a faster rate, there would not be any
: need for such petitions.

a********k
发帖数: 32

是的，我们大概还有两个月的时间来搜集签名和准备法庭之友的资料。如果您还没有去
投赞成票的话，请尽快去投。
现在有4500票，离我们需要的5万还差得挺远。

【在 s*******t 的大作中提到】

: 2/21不是deadline，现在还可以投
: 记得是选投票赞成（FOR）

s**********y
发帖数: 3366

support!

B******1
发帖数: 9094

Just my 2 cents:
Firstly, if you consider the so-called "adversity under socio-economic
constraint", then you would realize the so-called "450" point differential
is not that absurd. An average African American student's family history,
school district, educational background, participation in early education
programs, financial situations, etc., might be far worse than his or her
Asian counterpart across the spectrum. To label reverse-discrimination as
the cause of the 450 points differential is at least misleading for the
whole admission process. Asian students are notoriously good at standard tests.
But it is debatable that the SAT scores truly reflect one's academic or social
credentials and potentials. Another factor often mentioned is leadership,
which is impossible to quantify based on any scores and has to be evaluated
hollistically.
Secondly, if you consider the political power behind African Americans and
Asians, the winner is obvious. It's a number's game. Plus, Spanish-speaking
population is growing much faster than any other races. Their voice in this
issue is more likely to be consonant with that of the African Americans.
Although the political branch is independent from the legal branch, we all
know how the game is play at the top. Voters' power would be felt at the
court. In terms of political prowess, the winner is obvious, not to the
Asian's favor.
Thirdly, why focus on college admission as a group? Why not focus on
building an Asian-backed university and make it the next Harvard? Why not
focus on building a network which promotes Asian culture, education
traditions as a spring board for better job opportunities for Asians?
Getting into a good college is nice to have. But getting into a better
enterprise is far more important to any professionals after graduation. The
notion of Top University = Top Job is overrated. The college educational
system is more a machine to generate money nowadays than a place to train
the young minds for challenges in the future. What is the best lesson you
learned in your life? In a classroom or on a battlefield?
Fourthly, why limit our thinking to races? We are all human beings living
under the same sky and breathing the same air. Find common ground. Work on common
goals. And enjoy your humanhood. What is good for the social progression would
be good to all races.

g********g
发帖数: 2172

你太PUSSY了. 你到是不担心, 你让在坏学区的中国餐馆工的后代怎么办? 自己过了河
也要记得拉其他人一吧. 标准考试是不反映真实能力, 但是这世界上还有比标准考试更
加公平的手段么? African American不好好教育后代为什么要照顾他们? 难道是要鼓励
所有人都象老黑学习么?
Asian students are good at standard tests. 为什么是notoriously? 为什么不是
famious? 老黑的孩子犯罪率高才用notoriously.

tests.
social

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Just my 2 cents:
: Firstly, if you consider the so-called "adversity under socio-economic
: constraint", then you would realize the so-called "450" point differential
: is not that absurd. An average African American student's family history,
: school district, educational background, participation in early education
: programs, financial situations, etc., might be far worse than his or her
: Asian counterpart across the spectrum. To label reverse-discrimination as
: the cause of the 450 points differential is at least misleading for the
: whole admission process. Asian students are notoriously good at standard tests.
: But it is debatable that the SAT scores truly reflect one's academic or social

相关主题
● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)	● Ivies should discriminate against Asians
● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)	● 80-20关于亚裔在大学入学受歧视的正式文宣
● All Asians must stand up against racial reference	● 【转载】Asian-American Parenting and Academic Success
进入Parenting版参与讨论

x**s
发帖数: 1085

其实亚裔的socioecononimc background也并非都一样啊。
不说唐人街打黑工的，条件不会比很多老黑劳模家的好，就说我们大学毕业做白领的家
境也很有可能不同啊。最公平的以后就以家长的学历和大学排名来加分好了，像我们
这种非名牌大学出来的家长，娃怎么也该比北大清华毕业生的娃多加4-500的，反正你
们也无所谓分数了，对吧？也可以按照推的程度来加分，譬如说俺们一年都不一定给娃买到10本书的娃，成绩考试肯定比不上每隔一周买10本书的娃，所以分数低是肯定的，但这个分数并不反映娃的真实水平啊，所以，也应该加分，推得越少的娃分加得越多。。。。
这个我觉得很公平

tests.
social

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

B******1
发帖数: 9094

Why notoriously???
What is the percentage of Asian students who attended test preparation
courses before taking SAT? What is the same percentage for African American
students? If the first number is way bigger than the second, would the SAT
test score be a FAIR representation of a student's credential and potential?
The endurance of striving for the better self while the whole neighborhood
is saturated with gun fights, police raids, or poverty is far more
convincing than a perfect score in SAT, especially if the score is obtained
after taking courses and courses of private tutoring.
In the sense of fairness, choose the best among those who attended a test
preparation services. At the same time, choose the best among those who did
not have such a luxury. Let them compete with and learn from each other. Let
them break the culture divide and make the WHOLE society a better one. That
should be the purpose of education. That should be the goal of better
living for the future generations.

【在 g********g 的大作中提到】

: 你太PUSSY了. 你到是不担心, 你让在坏学区的中国餐馆工的后代怎么办? 自己过了河
: 也要记得拉其他人一吧. 标准考试是不反映真实能力, 但是这世界上还有比标准考试更
: 加公平的手段么? African American不好好教育后代为什么要照顾他们? 难道是要鼓励
: 所有人都象老黑学习么?
: Asian students are good at standard tests. 为什么是notoriously? 为什么不是
: famious? 老黑的孩子犯罪率高才用notoriously.
:
: tests.
: social

s******t
发帖数: 1672

这个连接打不开呀。

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

: 是的，我们大概还有两个月的时间来搜集签名和准备法庭之友的资料。如果您还没有去
: 投赞成票的话，请尽快去投。
: 现在有4500票，离我们需要的5万还差得挺远。

B******1
发帖数: 9094

That is exactly my point.
SAT score itself should not be used to prove or disprove the discriminative
nature of the admission process. The whole process should be geared toward
choosing the best candidates among the peers! By peers, I mean the same group
of applicants who have similar socioecononimc background hollistically.
If you child never touches a book but scores the best among all students who never touch a book, he or she is in!

娃买到10本书的娃，成绩考试肯定比不上每隔一周买10本书的娃，所以分数低是肯定的
，但这个分数并不反映娃的真实水平啊，所以，也应该加分，推得越少的娃分加得越多
。。。。

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: 其实亚裔的socioecononimc background也并非都一样啊。
: 不说唐人街打黑工的，条件不会比很多老黑劳模家的好，就说我们大学毕业做白领的家
: 境也很有可能不同啊。最公平的以后就以家长的学历和大学排名来加分好了，像我们
: 这种非名牌大学出来的家长，娃怎么也该比北大清华毕业生的娃多加4-500的，反正你
: 们也无所谓分数了，对吧？也可以按照推的程度来加分，譬如说俺们一年都不一定给娃买到10本书的娃，成绩考试肯定比不上每隔一周买10本书的娃，所以分数低是肯定的，但这个分数并不反映娃的真实水平啊，所以，也应该加分，推得越少的娃分加得越多。。。。
: 这个我觉得很公平
:
: tests.
: social

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

我总是觉得，黑黑墨墨在美国大学生比例里才占多少啊，咱们亚裔干嘛非要跟他们去抢
那两根骨头。大块的肉其实还是给白人，特别是犹太人吃了，咱们要抢就跟他们抢去。
我建议，AA可以stay，但是要加一条，minority race不能因此受到歧视。minority学
生的录取，向下需要保底，但是向上不能封顶。

tests.
social

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

父母没有上过大学的，在申请学校的时候肯定是有加分的。
我觉得挺公平的，虽然咱们孩子肯定是这个policy的受害者。

娃买到10本书的娃，成绩考试肯定比不上每隔一周买10本书的娃，所以分数低是肯定的
，但这个分数并不反映娃的真实水平啊，所以，也应该加分，推得越少的娃分加得越多
。。。。

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

g********g
发帖数: 2172

所以你认为 Asian students attended test preparation courses before taking
SAT? 是不应该的, 是不道德的? 所以要用notoriously?
另外你认为在小学中学里,Asian students成绩好也是因为attended test preparation
courses?

American
potential?
obtained

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Why notoriously???
: What is the percentage of Asian students who attended test preparation
: courses before taking SAT? What is the same percentage for African American
: students? If the first number is way bigger than the second, would the SAT
: test score be a FAIR representation of a student's credential and potential?
: The endurance of striving for the better self while the whole neighborhood
: is saturated with gun fights, police raids, or poverty is far more
: convincing than a perfect score in SAT, especially if the score is obtained
: after taking courses and courses of private tutoring.
: In the sense of fairness, choose the best among those who attended a test

g********g
发帖数: 2172

另外标准考试不FAIR, 你是不是认为给老黑优先就FAIR了?贴种族标签就FAIR了?

American
potential?
obtained

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

g********g
发帖数: 2172

这个同意, 但是问题是可操作性.

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 我总是觉得，黑黑墨墨在美国大学生比例里才占多少啊，咱们亚裔干嘛非要跟他们去抢
: 那两根骨头。大块的肉其实还是给白人，特别是犹太人吃了，咱们要抢就跟他们抢去。
: 我建议，AA可以stay，但是要加一条，minority race不能因此受到歧视。minority学
: 生的录取，向下需要保底，但是向上不能封顶。
:
: tests.
: social

B******1
发帖数: 9094

Ever heard the phrase "performance-enhancing drugs" in sports???

preparation

【在 g********g 的大作中提到】

: 所以你认为 Asian students attended test preparation courses before taking
: SAT? 是不应该的, 是不道德的? 所以要用notoriously?
: 另外你认为在小学中学里,Asian students成绩好也是因为attended test preparation
: courses?
:
: American
: potential?
: obtained

相关主题
● 转载纽约时报：亚裔孩子聪明反被聪明误 (转载)	● 紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票，来捍卫你孩子公平竞争 (转载)
● 我不反对AA了，原因是	● 我们需要用政治来消除孩子爬藤的人为障碍吗?
● 紧急动员：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校的机会	● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏
进入Parenting版参与讨论

t***s
发帖数: 300

顶上十大！！！
家长们行动起来，首先联系各地的中文学校，群发email，让更多的人知道，让更多的
人来投票

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

g********g
发帖数: 2172

藤校更倾向于招那些父母高学历, 父母成就高的.

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 父母没有上过大学的，在申请学校的时候肯定是有加分的。
: 我觉得挺公平的，虽然咱们孩子肯定是这个policy的受害者。
:
: 娃买到10本书的娃，成绩考试肯定比不上每隔一周买10本书的娃，所以分数低是肯定的
: ，但这个分数并不反映娃的真实水平啊，所以，也应该加分，推得越少的娃分加得越多
: 。。。。

O*****g
发帖数: 1257

What is your point?

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Ever heard the phrase "performance-enhancing drugs" in sports???
:
: preparation

B******1
发帖数: 9094

Ever heard of 新东方?

【在 O*****g 的大作中提到】

: What is your point?

O*****g
发帖数: 1257

No need to sound condescending. 新东方 or the likes and PEDs are not
comparable, not even close.

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Ever heard of 新东方?

g********g
发帖数: 2172

"performance-enhancing drugs"是非法的, 被禁止使用是因为对身体有伤害, 不鼓励
用, 对一般"performance-enhancing food"是不禁止的, 比如大家都知道多吃肉的人比
只吃菜的人STRONG (不绝对), 练健美的每天吃几十个鸡蛋都正常, 但吃肉吃蛋来提高
成绩是合理合法的.不这么搞好的人去练体育是STUPID.
考试强化班也是同样道理, 就象吃肉吃蛋一样是合理合法的, 对社会公开的, 所以参加
考试强化班都没有错. 所有想参加的都可以参加, 这样应该用notoriously么? 考试强
化班对提高水平也是有帮助的, 我参加新东方就觉得英语水平的确提高了.

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Ever heard of 新东方?

g********g
发帖数: 2172

新东方不去偷题的话, 没有什么不道德的地方.

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Ever heard of 新东方?

B******1
发帖数: 9094

One thing most of us, me included, forget to do is to look at ourselves in
the mirror and ask: Did we contribute to the current situation?
For example, why Asian's SAT scores are so high? Could it be that we heard a
high SAT score can boost the chance of admission? Could it be that we heard
a test-preparation course can boost the SAT score? Could it be that we
heard our neighbor's child is attending the course?
Could it be that we are competing against our own people so hard that it
looks like that we are discriminated against by the adcom?
Could it be that our children have nothing other than a perfect academic
record to show off in their applications?
Could it be that our children have no idea of what adversity is other than
tough academic competitions?
Could it be that we are supposed to be better than any other races on Earth?
Could it be that since most Asian countries use the test score as the main criteria to
select college students, we, Asian parents, feel cheated when it is not the case in the
U.S. system?
When dust settles, we found out that a high SAT score does not translate into an acception letter from a dream school. What had happened? It could not have been our own
fault! We are the best, aren't we?
The bottom line is: Could it be that historical data have shown that a high SAT score
for an Asian applicant might not translate into a reliable barometer reading for his
or her potentials to be the kind of student a university would like to have? Our
reputation precedes us since we are born.

O*****g
发帖数: 1257

While I agree certain amount of self-reflection, either as a person or as a
group, is good, too much self-rumination has detrimental consequences.

in
a
heard

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: One thing most of us, me included, forget to do is to look at ourselves in
: the mirror and ask: Did we contribute to the current situation?
: For example, why Asian's SAT scores are so high? Could it be that we heard a
: high SAT score can boost the chance of admission? Could it be that we heard
: a test-preparation course can boost the SAT score? Could it be that we
: heard our neighbor's child is attending the course?
: Could it be that we are competing against our own people so hard that it
: looks like that we are discriminated against by the adcom?
: Could it be that our children have nothing other than a perfect academic
: record to show off in their applications?

g********g
发帖数: 2172

我们亚洲人成绩好是因为我们参加培训班了, 不是因为我们家
里重视, 不是因为我们努力. 所以我们的孩子的成绩理应打折扣. 亚洲人只是成绩好,
学习以外一无是处, 老黑, 老墨, 老白个个都是能力超强, 所以学习不好理应照顾. 亚
洲人到了社会上就是个书虫, 啥贡献都没有, 是老黑, 老墨, 老白推动了人类的进步.
贱! 体育不行咱承认, 其他你去看看,创新企业多少是亚洲人FOUND的.

in
a
heard

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

相关主题
● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏	● 为了您的孩子,紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票
● 紧急投票：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校	● 紧急动员: 决战最高法院!!!!!!!! 请投票捍卫你孩子公平竞争入!!!!!!!!!!!
● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的七个常见误区
进入Parenting版参与讨论

B******1
发帖数: 9094

I am afraid your post would not help garner more support for your cause . . .

,

【在 g********g 的大作中提到】

: 我们亚洲人成绩好是因为我们参加培训班了, 不是因为我们家
: 里重视, 不是因为我们努力. 所以我们的孩子的成绩理应打折扣. 亚洲人只是成绩好,
: 学习以外一无是处, 老黑, 老墨, 老白个个都是能力超强, 所以学习不好理应照顾. 亚
: 洲人到了社会上就是个书虫, 啥贡献都没有, 是老黑, 老墨, 老白推动了人类的进步.
: 贱! 体育不行咱承认, 其他你去看看,创新企业多少是亚洲人FOUND的.
:
: in
: a
: heard

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

她这个已经不能只算是普世了。
“别人不要我们，我们就不能搞个自己的学校吗”---是我们的权利，我们为什么要放
弃？马丁路德金要是跟她一样的话，那还搞什么民权运动。
“为什么总是关注种族这件事情？”---这句话要跟admissions committee的人讲。

【在 g********g 的大作中提到】

N*****m
发帖数: 42603

有点无语了
犹太人的SAT scores也高，好在他们是占的白人的名额
问题是他们会照着镜子问自己这种傻问题么

a
heard

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

Nobody said the SAT would be the touchstone for college admissions. However,
I have yet to see evidence that suggests the admitted black students who
scored 300 points lower possess more leadership than the Asian students.

discriminative
group
who never touch a book, he or she is in!

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: That is exactly my point.
: SAT score itself should not be used to prove or disprove the discriminative
: nature of the admission process. The whole process should be geared toward
: choosing the best candidates among the peers! By peers, I mean the same group
: of applicants who have similar socioecononimc background hollistically.
: If you child never touches a book but scores the best among all students who never touch a book, he or she is in!
:
: 娃买到10本书的娃，成绩考试肯定比不上每隔一周买10本书的娃，所以分数低是肯定的
: ，但这个分数并不反映娃的真实水平啊，所以，也应该加分，推得越少的娃分加得越多
: 。。。。

B******1
发帖数: 9094

It is possible that a Jewish parent asked the following questions:
Given the same credentials, would the adcom admit an Asian student or a
Jewish one?
And why?

【在 N*****m 的大作中提到】

: 有点无语了
: 犹太人的SAT scores也高，好在他们是占的白人的名额
: 问题是他们会照着镜子问自己这种傻问题么
:
: a
: heard

N*****m
发帖数: 42603

Jewish呗，傻子才不向着自己人
现实是根本问不到这个问题，因为犹太人都去占白人的名额了，不会跟亚洲人直接竞争

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: It is possible that a Jewish parent asked the following questions:
: Given the same credentials, would the adcom admit an Asian student or a
: Jewish one?
: And why?

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

in the real world, nobody is going to hire you because you have the
potential to be someone. They hire you because of the abilities that you
have right now. Nobody will put a talented yet mediocre (due to lack of
practice) basketball player into the league. They need him to get them
result. If you have an IQ of 160 but never applied yourself in the first 18
years of your life, why should I believe that you will work your butt off to
become the next Nobel Laureate?

discriminative
group
who never touch a book, he or she is in!

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

x**s
发帖数: 1085

不读书肯定考不好，哪怕天才也要学了才能考好试，所以你说的不读书能够考百分的情
况根本不存在。但为什么黑娃考C的就比黄娃考A的更有才能呢？黄娃贪玩不读书拿个B+
的，又如何能证明自己比拼命补习拿了A的黄娃更有能力呢？
还有，你说的peer是一个族裔？一个学区？一个肤色？还是一个班级？
如果入学申请表上给你个socioeconomic的选择，那才是你理想中的平等，可惜人现在
用的是族裔选择，，而非你说的这个，把族裔和这个指数联系起来本身就是种族歧视。
。。
我理解小娃的家长能够这么站着说话不腰疼的高风亮节一下，都觉得自己娃是天才，是
peer里的best。等到娃大了遇到自己辛苦推了10多年争取出来的成绩，轻易地就被同学
校平时不看书还反过来嘲笑你书呆子的人取代了，你就知道你现在的想法有多单纯。

discriminative
group
who never touch a book, he or she is in!

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

B******1
发帖数: 9094

Your own argument can be used against your point:
Since you admitted that an IQ of 160 would not be a good incator for future
Nobel prize laureate, why would the adcom use a SAT score of 1600 or 2400 to
be a good indicator for future overachievers?
LOL

18
to

【在 b*******l 的大作中提到】

: in the real world, nobody is going to hire you because you have the
: potential to be someone. They hire you because of the abilities that you
: have right now. Nobody will put a talented yet mediocre (due to lack of
: practice) basketball player into the league. They need him to get them
: result. If you have an IQ of 160 but never applied yourself in the first 18
: years of your life, why should I believe that you will work your butt off to
: become the next Nobel Laureate?
:
: discriminative
: group

p*i
发帖数: 1328

The question should be: if you can't even get a high score in the standard
test, why should the adcom believe you will be an overachiever?

future
to

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Your own argument can be used against your point:
: Since you admitted that an IQ of 160 would not be a good incator for future
: Nobel prize laureate, why would the adcom use a SAT score of 1600 or 2400 to
: be a good indicator for future overachievers?
: LOL
:
: 18
: to

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● 其实亚洲人提不出来比白人更公平的议案的	● All Asians must stand up against racial reference
● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)	● Ivies should discriminate against Asians
进入Parenting版参与讨论

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

Because it is one of the best indicators. It is one of the indicators that
is closely associated with one's scholastic aptitude, which is what schools
are mainly concerned with. The primary purpose of a college education is to
have students learn academic things. Similarly, the primary purpose of a
sport team is for the athletes to excel and win. I would consider using the
SAT scores to gauge the NBA draft to be absurd. However, I consider the SAT
scores and the GPA to be very relevant to the college admissions. You tell
me another criterion that judges one's academic aptitude better than GPA and
SAT scores. I am all ears.
The 160 IQ argument was to illustrate my point that while it may be futile
to predict one's future academic success based on his SAT scores, it is even
more futile to gauge one's future success based on how much work he has put
in in the past to yield the result that he currently gets now.

future
to

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

O*****g
发帖数: 1257

So true.
Race based affirmative action is nothing more than the soft bigotry of low
expectations in practice. And this doesn't benefit those minority kids who
excel by their own effort because people would always look at them
differently as if they haven't earned this themselves.

B+

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: 不读书肯定考不好，哪怕天才也要学了才能考好试，所以你说的不读书能够考百分的情
: 况根本不存在。但为什么黑娃考C的就比黄娃考A的更有才能呢？黄娃贪玩不读书拿个B+
: 的，又如何能证明自己比拼命补习拿了A的黄娃更有能力呢？
: 还有，你说的peer是一个族裔？一个学区？一个肤色？还是一个班级？
: 如果入学申请表上给你个socioeconomic的选择，那才是你理想中的平等，可惜人现在
: 用的是族裔选择，，而非你说的这个，把族裔和这个指数联系起来本身就是种族歧视。
: 。。
: 我理解小娃的家长能够这么站着说话不腰疼的高风亮节一下，都觉得自己娃是天才，是
: peer里的best。等到娃大了遇到自己辛苦推了10多年争取出来的成绩，轻易地就被同学
: 校平时不看书还反过来嘲笑你书呆子的人取代了，你就知道你现在的想法有多单纯。

x**s
发帖数: 1085

嗯，其实不只是SAT成绩了，其他考试成绩也会因为黄皮肤而被打折扣。。。

【在 b*******l 的大作中提到】

: Because it is one of the best indicators. It is one of the indicators that
: is closely associated with one's scholastic aptitude, which is what schools
: are mainly concerned with. The primary purpose of a college education is to
: have students learn academic things. Similarly, the primary purpose of a
: sport team is for the athletes to excel and win. I would consider using the
: SAT scores to gauge the NBA draft to be absurd. However, I consider the SAT
: scores and the GPA to be very relevant to the college admissions. You tell
: me another criterion that judges one's academic aptitude better than GPA and
: SAT scores. I am all ears.
: The 160 IQ argument was to illustrate my point that while it may be futile

B******1
发帖数: 9094

The answer is simple: you have to look beyond the standard test scores!
If you walk in the shoes of an African American applicant, his or her
journey to his or her current status might not be any easier than that of an
Asian student. And we do not need that many high-scoring machines in
college for many reasons. As to overachievers, again, it is a relative term.
It could very well be the case that a student who has a perfect test score
(after so many rounds of hard training) has reached his or her ceiling in
terms of academic growth while another student who scored 300 or 400 lower
because of poor preparation is a diamond in the rough. It is the adcom's job
to sort things out. Given that the African American has a larger base,
those admitted students must be super good among their peers!
As I said before, college education is a money-earning business. As such,
the admission process would reflect the adcom's prediction of a student's
future growth and eventual reward to the school. They would not make
decision to hurt their bottom lines.

【在 p*i 的大作中提到】

: The question should be: if you can't even get a high score in the standard
: test, why should the adcom believe you will be an overachiever?
:
: future
: to

z***e
发帖数: 1757

I support this.

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

z***e
发帖数: 1757

why 可操作性 is an issue? zkss.

【在 g********g 的大作中提到】

: 这个同意, 但是问题是可操作性.

O*****g
发帖数: 1257

SAT might not predict future success because these tests only show what a
student learned in high school, not how well he or she can succeed in
college or life. And any student can apply themselves and succeed in these kind of standardized test (this in
and of itself a good life lesson, IMHO), but these tests DO help to show
which students WILL apply themselves.
Edison's 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration still holds true (thank
goodness!)

an
term.
score
job

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: The answer is simple: you have to look beyond the standard test scores!
: If you walk in the shoes of an African American applicant, his or her
: journey to his or her current status might not be any easier than that of an
: Asian student. And we do not need that many high-scoring machines in
: college for many reasons. As to overachievers, again, it is a relative term.
: It could very well be the case that a student who has a perfect test score
: (after so many rounds of hard training) has reached his or her ceiling in
: terms of academic growth while another student who scored 300 or 400 lower
: because of poor preparation is a diamond in the rough. It is the adcom's job
: to sort things out. Given that the African American has a larger base,

x**s
发帖数: 1085

是的，他们自己也抱怨过，走在哈佛校园里人看他们的眼神都有这种judgement。。

who

【在 O*****g 的大作中提到】

: So true.
: Race based affirmative action is nothing more than the soft bigotry of low
: expectations in practice. And this doesn't benefit those minority kids who
: excel by their own effort because people would always look at them
: differently as if they haven't earned this themselves.
:
: B+

p*i
发帖数: 1328

Your arguments are based on many unfounded assumptions. Knowing that SAT is
an important factor for college admission while poorly preparing it also
indicates that the applicant will be unlikely to excel academically. On the
other hand, there are many second or third tier colleges that people with
poorer academic performance can go. If it is a diamond, it will shine
anywhere, not necessarily in elite schools.

an
term.
score
job

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

x**s
发帖数: 1085

现实生活中哈佛每年受到2万多申请人，很多都是SAT满分，很多都是学校第一名，你让
这些admission officers要去仔细看每个人具体生活和学校情况？根本不可能的。。。
。所以分数就是first cut，然后再看具体情况。。。
作为亚裔，如果你没有到那个亚裔的底线，哪怕你家境穷过老黑，你也没有被审核的机
会。

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

相关主题
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B******1
发帖数: 9094

Learn the art of debate. Your post would hurt the cause you are supposed to
campaign for.

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

Talk about the art of debate. You have overlooked/ignored others' questions
at your convenience. Like another poster said, what about those Asian kids
who went through the same adversity that the inner-city black kids did? Why
do they deserve to get rejected just because their name is Asian?

to

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Learn the art of debate. Your post would hurt the cause you are supposed to
: campaign for.

d*g
发帖数: 16592

我们当年上学时候总是说，高考是教学的指挥棒，老师教什么怎么教都是跟随着那根指
挥棒的。
人家招生标准也是父母培养孩子的指挥棒。
作为私校，人家怎么招生呢？人家考虑什么呢？
人家考虑经济利益，特别是将来的经济利益。当然也要顾及当下的名声，所以有那个公
平竞争的遮羞布。其实人家就是看在不远将来，谁最可能出名或者赚到大钱，最可能给
学校带来名利。私校很大一部分收入来源于私人，特别是校友的捐款，比学费收入部分
多很多。不得不说，在捐款方面，亚裔明显不占优势。设想一下，如果校董会上，校长
报告说，一年来捐款的40%来源于亚裔校友，想都不用想招生政策会怎么倾斜。
人家现在就是说，我们不想要你们，要了你们我们没有好处，无论是现在还是将来，你
们都不会给我们带来名利，就是这样。

N*****m
发帖数: 42603

所以要闹，要闹大
下回他们就要顾忌一下了他们的名声
在美国，就是会闹的才有糖吃
像楼上某些人自责自恨，人家高兴还来不及

【在 d*g 的大作中提到】

: 我们当年上学时候总是说，高考是教学的指挥棒，老师教什么怎么教都是跟随着那根指
: 挥棒的。
: 人家招生标准也是父母培养孩子的指挥棒。
: 作为私校，人家怎么招生呢？人家考虑什么呢？
: 人家考虑经济利益，特别是将来的经济利益。当然也要顾及当下的名声，所以有那个公
: 平竞争的遮羞布。其实人家就是看在不远将来，谁最可能出名或者赚到大钱，最可能给
: 学校带来名利。私校很大一部分收入来源于私人，特别是校友的捐款，比学费收入部分
: 多很多。不得不说，在捐款方面，亚裔明显不占优势。设想一下，如果校董会上，校长
: 报告说，一年来捐款的40%来源于亚裔校友，想都不用想招生政策会怎么倾斜。
: 人家现在就是说，我们不想要你们，要了你们我们没有好处，无论是现在还是将来，你

g********g
发帖数: 2172

这个同意, 但老黑, 好墨也没捐啊, 为啥要向他们倾斜?

【在 d*g 的大作中提到】

t***s
发帖数: 300

自己的利益就要争取
哪来那么多的丰富的联想？都扯到新东方去了

【在 N*****m 的大作中提到】

: 所以要闹，要闹大
: 下回他们就要顾忌一下了他们的名声
: 在美国，就是会闹的才有糖吃
: 像楼上某些人自责自恨，人家高兴还来不及

s*******t
发帖数: 7746

这个不是和非裔抢quota！请看一看NY Times的文章，这个是起源于一白人学生告高校因为race理由拒收，现在法院愿意重新考虑审理这个race base的条款！
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/us/justices-to-hear-case-on-a
The new case, Fisher v. University of Texas, No. 11-345, was brought by Abigail Fisher, a white student who says the University of Texas denied her admission because of her race.

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

N*****m
发帖数: 42603

有些人要照镜子思考啊：为什么我考高了那么多分？

【在 t***s 的大作中提到】

: 自己的利益就要争取
: 哪来那么多的丰富的联想？都扯到新东方去了

d*g
发帖数: 16592

还是那句话，他们的确有leadership，尤其是老黑，劳模我接触的budo，能上藤校的老
黑智商不一定高，
但是很多人情商，或者不能叫情商，叫政治商还是什么的，还是挺高的。至少比我们亚
裔aggressive多了，
我见到很多老黑从政，当市长（当年纽约，巴尔的摩等大城市都有过黑人市长吧），当
议员，当律师，水平不见得多高，但是一个个高调得很，特别能利用自己的“种族优势
”，而且特别保护自己的族裔的利益。你想一个学校出这样的政要，对自己学校的利益
（不一定是金钱，但是名声）肯定不差吧？
我觉得，我们对孩子的培养还是要往这边倾斜一些，我本人不喜欢政客，但是如果我们
下一代从政，我坚决支持。另外不能光靠技术吃饭，虽然我们这一代就是靠这个
landing在这片土地上，但是下一代不能这样，如果永远是拉车的，永远不被尊重。

【在 g********g 的大作中提到】

: 这个同意, 但老黑, 好墨也没捐啊, 为啥要向他们倾斜?

B******1
发帖数: 9094

Using words from another poster, you are making unfounded assumptions.
1) I already replied the previous poster's question about "poor" performing
Asian students. Among those "poor" performing candidates, if you are the
best, you should be admitted. Make sure your application material reflects
your perceived greatness among the "poor."
2) I seriously doubt this proposal was written from the hands of those
parents whose kids are "those Asian kids who went through the same adversity
that the inner-city black kids did." If an Asian kid and a black kid has
the same resume and background, both should be admitted or rejected at the
same time. No question about it. How many Asian kids live within a
traditional Black neighborhood?
My assumption is that most people posted reply to this thread came from
China and went through the grueling one-exam-decides-all process of Chinese
college admission. As a result, we are accustomed to the practice of using
test scores as the main benchmark to select students for college.
Unfortunately or fortunately, the U.S. system is different from that of
China. It is hard for us to swallow our pride and admit that test scores are
not good enough in the eyes of the adcom. Asian students' score are higher
does not mean they are much better in other aspects of their applications
than other applicants. The anger felt by the Asian parent is understandable,
especially when they are losing the "perceived" battle to someone they look
down upon.
Mingled into this equation of admission is the eventual payoff for the university.
As a group, the asian might not benefit the school as much as the Black did historically.

questions
Why

【在 b*******l 的大作中提到】

: Talk about the art of debate. You have overlooked/ignored others' questions
: at your convenience. Like another poster said, what about those Asian kids
: who went through the same adversity that the inner-city black kids did? Why
: do they deserve to get rejected just because their name is Asian?
:
: to

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● 我们需要用政治来消除孩子爬藤的人为障碍吗?	● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.
● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏	● 为了您的孩子,紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票
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b**********y
发帖数: 2718

没有置顶啊。帮顶。

d********1
发帖数: 3828

He has my support.

. .

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: I am afraid your post would not help garner more support for your cause . . .
:
: ,

t***s
发帖数: 300

咱们华裔也要多出这样的人物
咱们华裔更要粉这样的人物，而不单单是林书豪那一类的

校因为race理由拒收，现在法院愿意重新考虑审理这个race base的条款！
Abigail Fisher, a white student who says the University of Texas denied her
admission because of her race.

【在 s*******t 的大作中提到】

: 这个不是和非裔抢quota！请看一看NY Times的文章，这个是起源于一白人学生告高校因为race理由拒收，现在法院愿意重新考虑审理这个race base的条款！
: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/us/justices-to-hear-case-on-a
: The new case, Fisher v. University of Texas, No. 11-345, was brought by Abigail Fisher, a white student who says the University of Texas denied her admission because of her race.

B******1
发帖数: 9094

Hehe.
You are on his side to begin with BEFORE viewing this thread. What about
those who have not decided on the matter and who would be turned off by the
foul language displayed by you-know-who? What kind of image as a group you
would like to have on-line or in real life? Are you sure that your claimed
support would be good enough to draw in more support?
Remember, the purpose you or your group to post message online is to garner
MORE support, not to expose yourself and alienate potential supporters.
Again, learn the art of argument.

【在 d********1 的大作中提到】

: He has my support.
:
: . .

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

-"Using words from another poster, you are making unfounded assumptions.
-1) I already replied the previous poster's question about "poor" -
performing Asian students. Among those "poor" performing candidates, -if you
are the best, you should be admitted. Make sure your -application material
reflects your perceived greatness among the -"poor."
-"2) I seriously doubt this proposal was written from the hands of those
-parents whose kids are "those Asian kids who went through the same -
adversity that the inner-city black kids did." If an Asian kid and a -black
kid has the same resume and background, both should be admitted -or rejected
at the same time. No question about it. How many Asian -kids live within a
Black neighborhood?"
BP: "If an Asian kid and a black kid has the same resume and background,
both should be admitted or rejected at the same time."-- This is your
wishful thinking. Not happening in reality. Also, there are a lot of Asians
who live in poor neighborhoods. The Asian families with parents who have
foreign and advanced degrees don't even constitute close to half of all
Asian families. Asian gang problems are huge, and many Asian kids have
become victims of them. You need to stop thinking that all Asians live in
Palo Alto and work at Google.
-"My assumption is that most people posted reply to this thread came -from
China and went through the grueling one-exam-decides-all process -of Chinese
college admission. As a result, we are accustomed to the -practice of using
test scores as the main benchmark to select students -for college.
Unfortunately or fortunately, the U.S. system is different -from that of
China. It is hard for us to swallow our pride and admit -that test scores
are not good enough in the eyes of the adcom. Asian -students' score are
higher does not mean they are much better in other -aspects of their
applications than other applicants. Especially when -they are losing the "
perceived" battle to someone they look down upon."
BP: The truth is that the current system does not consider the applicants as
whole packages fairly. I was lucky enough to get admitted into a decent
college, and many of the admitted students from other races did not have
higher test scores than I did, nor did they have more extracurricular
activities. Their so-called leadership did not shine while they were in
school or after graduation, and their success after graduation did not
surpass that of the Asian students as I have observed. I am as supportive of
the whole total-package evaluation as the next guy, but I yet need to see
its fair implementation. Just what is the weighted formula? 30% SAT + 30%
GPA + 20% extracurricular + 10% everything else? Or maybe 80% leadership +
20% sports? I am all for it even if it is the latter. We want transparency
in our government, but with admission committees, oh no, that is a
restricted area that requires some high level clearances. When I see the
identical applications from David Chen and Lorenzo Smith who both went to
Philadelphia High, and David lost his admission to Lorenzo, what am I
supposed to make of it?

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Hehe.
: You are on his side to begin with BEFORE viewing this thread. What about
: those who have not decided on the matter and who would be turned off by the
: foul language displayed by you-know-who? What kind of image as a group you
: would like to have on-line or in real life? Are you sure that your claimed
: support would be good enough to draw in more support?
: Remember, the purpose you or your group to post message online is to garner
: MORE support, not to expose yourself and alienate potential supporters.
: Again, learn the art of argument.

m*******3
发帖数: 874

所以偶们要vote！
这玩意还有什么好debate的，只要对偶门华人有力的就vote啊
自己不为自己的利益奋斗还要等别人啊
起来，不愿意做**的蝇们！

【在 d*g 的大作中提到】

: 还是那句话，他们的确有leadership，尤其是老黑，劳模我接触的budo，能上藤校的老
: 黑智商不一定高，
: 但是很多人情商，或者不能叫情商，叫政治商还是什么的，还是挺高的。至少比我们亚
: 裔aggressive多了，
: 我见到很多老黑从政，当市长（当年纽约，巴尔的摩等大城市都有过黑人市长吧），当
: 议员，当律师，水平不见得多高，但是一个个高调得很，特别能利用自己的“种族优势
: ”，而且特别保护自己的族裔的利益。你想一个学校出这样的政要，对自己学校的利益
: （不一定是金钱，但是名声）肯定不差吧？
: 我觉得，我们对孩子的培养还是要往这边倾斜一些，我本人不喜欢政客，但是如果我们
: 下一代从政，我坚决支持。另外不能光靠技术吃饭，虽然我们这一代就是靠这个

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

Heck, he gave him his support, and that is it. There must be a reason for it
. Are you going to question everyone who voted for Obama if they had read
all of Obama's proposals?

the
garner

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

亚裔早都已经是 over-represented 了吧，应该再让点出来给黑黑墨墨才符合社会整体
公平
:D

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

你们北大的都跟你一样唐僧吗？哈哈。你要是一个女的还好，要是个男的，也真够给力
的。

the
garner

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

d*g
发帖数: 16592

你要了解为什么是这样，才有长远的利益。
vote不反对，但是其作用我觉得不乐观。

【在 m*******3 的大作中提到】

: 所以偶们要vote！
: 这玩意还有什么好debate的，只要对偶门华人有力的就vote啊
: 自己不为自己的利益奋斗还要等别人啊
: 起来，不愿意做**的蝇们！

相关主题
● 紧急动员: 决战最高法院!!!!!!!! 请投票捍卫你孩子公平竞争入!!!!!!!!!!!	● 其实亚洲人提不出来比白人更公平的议案的
● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的七个常见误区	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)
● 人心齐泰山移: 美国高法将重审大学招生中的种族歧视问题 (转载)	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)
进入Parenting版参与讨论

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

why would the adcom use a SAT score of 1600 or 2400 to be a good indicator
for future overachievers?
--------------这话你跟这儿问？LOL～～～～

future
to

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

我说您老换成中文成不成啊？机器上没有的话，有一种东东叫online输入。
意见不同就不用呗，干嘛老教育别人learn the art of argument.

the
garner

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

这个AA，说白了白人要payback当年对黑人兄弟欠下的债，所以这个债白人兄弟还好了
，跟我们毛关系都没有：）

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 亚裔早都已经是 over-represented 了吧，应该再让点出来给黑黑墨墨才符合社会整体
: 公平
: :D

x**s
发帖数: 1085

LOL
赞，其实这个逻辑就是这么简单，等自家娃大了碰墙头的时候才感受到，就没人来帮你
了。

【在 m*******3 的大作中提到】

: 所以偶们要vote！
: 这玩意还有什么好debate的，只要对偶门华人有力的就vote啊
: 自己不为自己的利益奋斗还要等别人啊
: 起来，不愿意做**的蝇们！

B******1
发帖数: 9094

What is the definition of 唐僧 in the context? And why is it sex-
discrimitive?

【在 b*******l 的大作中提到】

: 你们北大的都跟你一样唐僧吗？哈哈。你要是一个女的还好，要是个男的，也真够给力
: 的。
:
: the
: garner

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

我们的铁路都白修了吗？

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 这个AA，说白了白人要payback当年对黑人兄弟欠下的债，所以这个债白人兄弟还好了
: ，跟我们毛关系都没有：）

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

唐僧就是车轱辘话，说很多很多遍。就是你这种。哈哈。

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: What is the definition of 唐僧 in the context? And why is it sex-
: discrimitive?

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

抬头，看楼上。简单直接的东西被哇啦哇啦写好几篇儿，就叫唐僧。

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: What is the definition of 唐僧 in the context? And why is it sex-
: discrimitive?

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

somehow我不觉得取消了AA以后招生政策会对亚裔倾斜或者说公平。AA如果取消，只会
把招生的自主权交回给学校，最后benefit的估计还是白人。

【在 m*******3 的大作中提到】

: 所以偶们要vote！
: 这玩意还有什么好debate的，只要对偶门华人有力的就vote啊
: 自己不为自己的利益奋斗还要等别人啊
: 起来，不愿意做**的蝇们！

x**s
发帖数: 1085

白人还债却拿我们送刀口，咋会跟我们没关系？你没看到亚裔的门槛最高?

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 这个AA，说白了白人要payback当年对黑人兄弟欠下的债，所以这个债白人兄弟还好了
: ，跟我们毛关系都没有：）

相关主题
● All Asians must stand up against racial reference	● 【转载】Asian-American Parenting and Academic Success
● Ivies should discriminate against Asians	● 转载纽约时报：亚裔孩子聪明反被聪明误 (转载)
● 80-20关于亚裔在大学入学受歧视的正式文宣	● 我不反对AA了，原因是
进入Parenting版参与讨论

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

那具体到每一个白人，比如现在打官司这个，他又欠了黑人兄弟神马？仅仅因为他生了
一身白皮就要还债，那也不合理啊。我记得几年前告 Michigan 那个白人还说他祖上对
黑人有恩呢
当年白人在华工身上欠下的债又该怎么还？
所以归根到底是社会整体利益的问题...
//我跟你一样，我也不相信这种签名会影响大法官的任何思维过程。

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 这个AA，说白了白人要payback当年对黑人兄弟欠下的债，所以这个债白人兄弟还好了
: ，跟我们毛关系都没有：）

N*****m
发帖数: 42603

接着闹呗
gay都能闹，何况亚裔

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 那具体到每一个白人，比如现在打官司这个，他又欠了黑人兄弟神马？仅仅因为他生了
: 一身白皮就要还债，那也不合理啊。我记得几年前告 Michigan 那个白人还说他祖上对
: 黑人有恩呢
: 当年白人在华工身上欠下的债又该怎么还？
: 所以归根到底是社会整体利益的问题...
: //我跟你一样，我也不相信这种签名会影响大法官的任何思维过程。

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

UCLA，Univ of Caucasians Lost in Asians 就是直接后果嘛，哈哈

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: somehow我不觉得取消了AA以后招生政策会对亚裔倾斜或者说公平。AA如果取消，只会
: 把招生的自主权交回给学校，最后benefit的估计还是白人。

x**s
发帖数: 1085

这只是你的一种假设。。。

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: somehow我不觉得取消了AA以后招生政策会对亚裔倾斜或者说公平。AA如果取消，只会
: 把招生的自主权交回给学校，最后benefit的估计还是白人。

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

永远都是会哭的孩子有奶吃呀。

【在 N*****m 的大作中提到】

: 接着闹呗
: gay都能闹，何况亚裔

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

要是我们现在有本事去拆了铁路，那就牛逼了
否则确实是白修了啊

【在 b*******l 的大作中提到】

: 我们的铁路都白修了吗？

x**s
发帖数: 1085

当然会。我跟踪change.org很久了，亲眼目睹了无数这种通过民意申请而改变法庭决定
，最近的一个Bank of America用debit card收费的例子就是一个。
哪怕没用，你按一个button对你也没伤害不是？成功了你还有bonus拿，多好？

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 要是我们现在有本事去拆了铁路，那就牛逼了
: 否则确实是白修了啊

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

倒，你没有看我一开始的帖子？我的观点是，AA可以stay，但是要加条，minority
race不能因此受到歧视。minority学生的录取，向下需要保底，但是向上不能封顶。

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: 白人还债却拿我们送刀口，咋会跟我们没关系？你没看到亚裔的门槛最高?

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

这个事，其实白人黄人是绑在一条船上的

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: 白人还债却拿我们送刀口，咋会跟我们没关系？你没看到亚裔的门槛最高?

N*****m
发帖数: 42603

100

美国政府高兴还来不及呀
美国的铁路正愁没人拆呢，现在各地都在不停的拆

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 要是我们现在有本事去拆了铁路，那就牛逼了
: 否则确实是白修了啊

相关主题
● 紧急动员：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校的机会	● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏
● 紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票，来捍卫你孩子公平竞争 (转载)	● 紧急投票：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校
● 我们需要用政治来消除孩子爬藤的人为障碍吗?	● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.
进入Parenting版参与讨论

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

101

ft 白人的日子还真要不过了啊

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 倒，你没有看我一开始的帖子？我的观点是，AA可以stay，但是要加条，minority
: race不能因此受到歧视。minority学生的录取，向下需要保底，但是向上不能封顶。

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

102

当然不能啊。平权法案本来就有我们一份的。
我一开始就说了，我的观点是，AA可以stay，但是要加条，minority race不能因此受
到歧视。minority学生的录取，向下需要保底，但是向上不能封顶。
赛，这下说了这么多遍，符合唐僧定义了。

【在 b*******l 的大作中提到】

: 我们的铁路都白修了吗？

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

103

这叫什么话？那黑人有本事把摘了的棉花都种回去啊？不种回去就没有reparation.

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 要是我们现在有本事去拆了铁路，那就牛逼了
: 否则确实是白修了啊

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

104

link不work，我连不过去。

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: 当然会。我跟踪change.org很久了，亲眼目睹了无数这种通过民意申请而改变法庭决定
: ，最近的一个Bank of America用debit card收费的例子就是一个。
: 哪怕没用，你按一个button对你也没伤害不是？成功了你还有bonus拿，多好？

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

105

你这还算唐？一共才几行字啊，才说了3遍嘛！

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 当然不能啊。平权法案本来就有我们一份的。
: 我一开始就说了，我的观点是，AA可以stay，但是要加条，minority race不能因此受
: 到歧视。minority学生的录取，向下需要保底，但是向上不能封顶。
: 赛，这下说了这么多遍，符合唐僧定义了。

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

106

黑人的本事已经被证明了啊
反正不是靠签名请愿

【在 b*******l 的大作中提到】

: 这叫什么话？那黑人有本事把摘了的棉花都种回去啊？不种回去就没有reparation.

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

107

BoA那个是银行自己的policy，后来看反对的人太多取消了。跟法院没关系啊。
你还是举一个最高法院的例子吧。

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

x**s
发帖数: 1085

108

http://www.change.org/
你有兴趣可以加入，他们经常会发心的petition出来，你愿意投票就投，每次成功了他
们会给E的。
最新一个是这个，有关学校bully的。
https://www.change.org/petitions/mpaa-dont-let-the-bullies-win-give-bully-a-
pg-13-instead-of-an-r-rating

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: link不work，我连不过去。

c***z
发帖数: 6348

109

你娃是亚裔吗？不是别来捣乱!

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: What is the definition of 唐僧 in the context? And why is it sex-
: discrimitive?

c***z
发帖数: 6348

110

你娃是亚裔吗？不是别来捣乱!

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: What is the definition of 唐僧 in the context? And why is it sex-
: discrimitive?

相关主题
● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的七个常见误区
● 为了您的孩子,紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票	● 人心齐泰山移: 美国高法将重审大学招生中的种族歧视问题 (转载)
● 紧急动员: 决战最高法院!!!!!!!! 请投票捍卫你孩子公平竞争入!!!!!!!!!!!	● 其实亚洲人提不出来比白人更公平的议案的
进入Parenting版参与讨论

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

111

这个怎么可能举得出来
美国这个高院制度最根本的出发点之一就是将大法官和政治、舆论、经济压力这些东西
隔离开来
他们不民选，不退休，不向任何人负责，就管解释宪法

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: BoA那个是银行自己的policy，后来看反对的人太多取消了。跟法院没关系啊。
: 你还是举一个最高法院的例子吧。

x**s
发帖数: 1085

112

这个倒是没有记录，但是有个肯定是影响了法庭案件的，就是某俩白人在非洲做义工收
养了一孤儿黑女娃。结果南非的adoption法律和美国的移民法冲突，导致他们无法领养
此女，他们走过法庭需要通融移民法里的某个条例，最后成功。
但不记得那个是不是走最高法院的，应该不是
我觉得啊，这个事情呢，你如果觉得和你有关就做，无关就不用做，就这样吧。

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: BoA那个是银行自己的policy，后来看反对的人太多取消了。跟法院没关系啊。
: 你还是举一个最高法院的例子吧。

x**s
发帖数: 1085

113

真是无知者无畏啊
“法庭之友”(Amicus Curiae)，源自拉丁文，意指法庭的朋友。法庭之友制度是
指案件当事人之外的个人、团体或政府机关在法庭作出裁判（一般限于二审程序）之前
就法院所面临的法律等问题向法院提供意见的制度。法庭之友向法庭提交意见的目的在
于帮助法庭作出正确的判决，而提交的意见则表现为支持一方当事人的主张或完全从公
共利益的角度出发而向法院提交法庭之友意见。

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 这个怎么可能举得出来
: 美国这个高院制度最根本的出发点之一就是将大法官和政治、舆论、经济压力这些东西
: 隔离开来
: 他们不民选，不退休，不向任何人负责，就管解释宪法

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

114

有关但是主动选择不作为也是可以的

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: 这个倒是没有记录，但是有个肯定是影响了法庭案件的，就是某俩白人在非洲做义工收
: 养了一孤儿黑女娃。结果南非的adoption法律和美国的移民法冲突，导致他们无法领养
: 此女，他们走过法庭需要通融移民法里的某个条例，最后成功。
: 但不记得那个是不是走最高法院的，应该不是
: 我觉得啊，这个事情呢，你如果觉得和你有关就做，无关就不用做，就这样吧。

x**s
发帖数: 1085

115

那当然，所以华人被人骂三人成虫好几十年也不是没有道理的嘛

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 有关但是主动选择不作为也是可以的

k**n
发帖数: 6198

116

the link is not working!

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

117

我只是怀疑在大法官的最终 opinion 里面有没有任何人曾经明确提到这个 A.C. 改变
了他本来的倾向的例子

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: 真是无知者无畏啊
: “法庭之友”(Amicus Curiae)，源自拉丁文，意指法庭的朋友。法庭之友制度是
: 指案件当事人之外的个人、团体或政府机关在法庭作出裁判（一般限于二审程序）之前
: 就法院所面临的法律等问题向法院提供意见的制度。法庭之友向法庭提交意见的目的在
: 于帮助法庭作出正确的判决，而提交的意见则表现为支持一方当事人的主张或完全从公
: 共利益的角度出发而向法院提交法庭之友意见。

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

118

你这属于把自己的观念强加于别人
我就没看出来不签这个请愿的华人跟虫有神马必然联系

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: 那当然，所以华人被人骂三人成虫好几十年也不是没有道理的嘛

x**s
发帖数: 1085

119

It's working. Sometimes it's just slow.
http://admin.80-20nj.info/cgi/80/e?l=8/11e/f&w=no

【在 k**n 的大作中提到】

: the link is not working!
:
: 80

t***s
发帖数: 300

120

某些精英不懂the art of argument的最高境界是争取人心
还得多学学奥巴马

【在 c*******u 的大作中提到】

: 我说您老换成中文成不成啊？机器上没有的话，有一种东东叫online输入。
: 意见不同就不用呗，干嘛老教育别人learn the art of argument.
:
: the
: garner

相关主题
● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)	● Ivies should discriminate against Asians
● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)	● 80-20关于亚裔在大学入学受歧视的正式文宣
● All Asians must stand up against racial reference	● 【转载】Asian-American Parenting and Academic Success
进入Parenting版参与讨论

x**s
发帖数: 1085

121

俺wiki了一下
全文在这里http://www.techlawjournal.com/glossary/legal/amicus.htm
. Some studies have shown a positive correlation between number of amicus
briefs filed in support of granting certiorari, and the Court's decision to
grant certiorari. Some friend of the court briefs provide valuable
information about legal arguments, or how a case might affect people other
than the parties to the case. Some organizations file friend of the court
briefs in an attempt to "lobby" the Supreme Court, obtain media attention,
or impress members.
我们的声音要被法官听到需要很多签名，最好有5万，现在只有几千，大家袖手旁观以
后弄不好就是自己娃付代价了。。。

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 我只是怀疑在大法官的最终 opinion 里面有没有任何人曾经明确提到这个 A.C. 改变
: 了他本来的倾向的例子

x**s
发帖数: 1085

122

都觉得自己很聪明啊，觉得这种麻烦无论如何是不会落到自家屋顶上的。。。。

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 你这属于把自己的观念强加于别人
: 我就没看出来不签这个请愿的华人跟虫有神马必然联系

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

123

赞！点个button举手之劳，最终受益的是我们的子孙后代。

to

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: 俺wiki了一下
: 全文在这里http://www.techlawjournal.com/glossary/legal/amicus.htm
: . Some studies have shown a positive correlation between number of amicus
: briefs filed in support of granting certiorari, and the Court's decision to
: grant certiorari. Some friend of the court briefs provide valuable
: information about legal arguments, or how a case might affect people other
: than the parties to the case. Some organizations file friend of the court
: briefs in an attempt to "lobby" the Supreme Court, obtain media attention,
: or impress members.
: 我们的声音要被法官听到需要很多签名，最好有5万，现在只有几千，大家袖手旁观以

B******1
发帖数: 9094

124

Hehe. You are a fine example of discrimination.

【在 c***z 的大作中提到】

: 你娃是亚裔吗？不是别来捣乱!

t***s
发帖数: 300

125

俺怒了！
钻风都死哪去了？
正么还没上首页？？？

to

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

126

“被法官听到”就别指望了，obtain media attention, 争取社会文化上的 awareness
，是比较好的目标
另外这么大的事，5万不行，500万还差不多

to

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

127

如果大家都不去做，就连5个都没有了。

awareness

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: “被法官听到”就别指望了，obtain media attention, 争取社会文化上的 awareness
: ，是比较好的目标
: 另外这么大的事，5万不行，500万还差不多
:
: to

t***s
发帖数: 300

128

是的，要耐心点

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: It's working. Sometimes it's just slow.
: http://admin.80-20nj.info/cgi/80/e?l=8/11e/f&w=no

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

129

大家还是在完全从自身种族肤色因素出发来看这个问题
我就是好奇，你们说为啥白人大法官也有支持AA制的呢？
最激烈反对AA的恰恰是 Uncle Clarence, 黑大爷，哈哈

【在 c*******u 的大作中提到】

: 如果大家都不去做，就连5个都没有了。
:
: awareness

x**s
发帖数: 1085

130

这就是虫的典型思维啊，觉得自己的一票不值分文。。。

awareness

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: “被法官听到”就别指望了，obtain media attention, 争取社会文化上的 awareness
: ，是比较好的目标
: 另外这么大的事，5万不行，500万还差不多
:
: to

相关主题
● 转载纽约时报：亚裔孩子聪明反被聪明误 (转载)	● 紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票，来捍卫你孩子公平竞争 (转载)
● 我不反对AA了，原因是	● 我们需要用政治来消除孩子爬藤的人为障碍吗?
● 紧急动员：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校的机会	● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏
进入Parenting版参与讨论

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

131

不光自己的一票，任何人的一票都不值分文，我这说的还是货真价实的民主政治投票过程
If you think your vote helped to decide who became the president, you are
sadly mistaken.
至于这种 non-binding、最多只能影响舆论的过程，都没法用“分文”来衡量。

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: 这就是虫的典型思维啊，觉得自己的一票不值分文。。。
:
: awareness

x**s
发帖数: 1085

132

黑人里的精英觉得AA让他们蒙羞，降低了他们的杰出才能的表现力，所以反对。同时他们已经出头，他们的娃也不会需要这个出头。
白人支持AA的因为他们负疚感特别严重。。
其实 AA本身从理想主义角度来说挺高尚的，但是实用起来就有reverse
discrimination的结果，所谓好心出恶果。

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 大家还是在完全从自身种族肤色因素出发来看这个问题
: 我就是好奇，你们说为啥白人大法官也有支持AA制的呢？
: 最激烈反对AA的恰恰是 Uncle Clarence, 黑大爷，哈哈

t***s
发帖数: 300

133

显然奥巴马不这么想

过程

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 不光自己的一票，任何人的一票都不值分文，我这说的还是货真价实的民主政治投票过程
: If you think your vote helped to decide who became the president, you are
: sadly mistaken.
: 至于这种 non-binding、最多只能影响舆论的过程，都没法用“分文”来衡量。

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

134

white guilt 解释不了这个问题
我相信大法官考虑的还是社会整体利益

他们已经出头，他们的娃也不会需要这个出头。

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: 黑人里的精英觉得AA让他们蒙羞，降低了他们的杰出才能的表现力，所以反对。同时他们已经出头，他们的娃也不会需要这个出头。
: 白人支持AA的因为他们负疚感特别严重。。
: 其实 AA本身从理想主义角度来说挺高尚的，但是实用起来就有reverse
: discrimination的结果，所谓好心出恶果。

d*g
发帖数: 16592

135

你相信天下有这么便宜的事情么？

【在 c*******u 的大作中提到】

: 赞！点个button举手之劳，最终受益的是我们的子孙后代。
:
: to

N*****m
发帖数: 42603

136

老黑闹出来的呗
在美国，你不闹，永远都没人拿你当回事

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

137

我是说80-20这个投票的link。我用公司家里的机器都连不过去。

a-

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: http://www.change.org/
: 你有兴趣可以加入，他们经常会发心的petition出来，你愿意投票就投，每次成功了他
: 们会给E的。
: 最新一个是这个，有关学校bully的。
: https://www.change.org/petitions/mpaa-dont-let-the-bullies-win-give-bully-a-
: pg-13-instead-of-an-r-rating

i******4
发帖数: 20643

138

done

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

x**s
发帖数: 1085

139

http://admin.80-20nj.info/cgi/80/e?l=8/11e/f&w=no
工作的，可能人多网站有时候比较慢，等一下就有了
谢谢

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 我是说80-20这个投票的link。我用公司家里的机器都连不过去。
:
: a-

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

140

从我个人来讲，我是支持AA的。即使这个政策可能会伤害到我娃。不过，作为Asian
American voting block的一员，我还是支持这个petition，因为集体利益大于个人观
点。
另外，我也觉得，这个petition根本不可能影响大法官。但是，你在公共版面说这个话
，不怕被骂死？：P

过程

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

相关主题
● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏	● 为了您的孩子,紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票
● 紧急投票：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校	● 紧急动员: 决战最高法院!!!!!!!! 请投票捍卫你孩子公平竞争入!!!!!!!!!!!
● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的七个常见误区
进入Parenting版参与讨论

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

141

谢谢，投了。

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

: http://admin.80-20nj.info/cgi/80/e?l=8/11e/f&w=no
: 工作的，可能人多网站有时候比较慢，等一下就有了
: 谢谢

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

142

我都N久没有在公共版面发过文了，哈哈，骂就骂吧，我遁~~~

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 从我个人来讲，我是支持AA的。即使这个政策可能会伤害到我娃。不过，作为Asian
: American voting block的一员，我还是支持这个petition，因为集体利益大于个人观
: 点。
: 另外，我也觉得，这个petition根本不可能影响大法官。但是，你在公共版面说这个话
: ，不怕被骂死？：P
:
: 过程

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

143

还有一个很可能在公共版面招骂的问题...
咱的下一代，已经生出来的那种族是改不了了，还没生出来的，换种族的可能性也可以
忽略 :D
可是下一代的下一代呢... 大家反对下一代跨种族婚姻么？especially, 大家反对跟黑
黑墨墨native american这些受照顾种族通婚么？比如说跟黑黑通婚，他们生下来的孩
子算亚裔还是非洲裔...

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

144

你真是很久不来公共版面灌水了。

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 还有一个很可能在公共版面招骂的问题...
: 咱的下一代，已经生出来的那种族是改不了了，还没生出来的，换种族的可能性也可以
: 忽略 :D
: 可是下一代的下一代呢... 大家反对下一代跨种族婚姻么？especially, 大家反对跟黑
: 黑墨墨native american这些受照顾种族通婚么？比如说跟黑黑通婚，他们生下来的孩
: 子算亚裔还是非洲裔...

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

145

现在可能没有，将来未必就不会有。如果什么都不做，一定就没有。

【在 d*g 的大作中提到】

: 你相信天下有这么便宜的事情么？

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

146

难说，这次很可能就搭白人顺风车了呢

【在 c*******u 的大作中提到】

: 现在可能没有，将来未必就不会有。如果什么都不做，一定就没有。

c***z
发帖数: 6348

147

你娃到底是不是亚裔？你不知道？

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Hehe. You are a fine example of discrimination.

s*******l
发帖数: 4870

148

所以你投的NO是吧？我本来试过一次，server busy没work，
现在为了把你那票反过来，又去投了一次 :D

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

b*****a
发帖数: 14583

149

她还是跟 voting block 投的 for 吧

【在 s*******l 的大作中提到】

: 所以你投的NO是吧？我本来试过一次，server busy没work，
: 现在为了把你那票反过来，又去投了一次 :D

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

150

我投的是yes啊，你再读一遍我的帖子？：P

【在 s*******l 的大作中提到】

: 所以你投的NO是吧？我本来试过一次，server busy没work，
: 现在为了把你那票反过来，又去投了一次 :D

相关主题
● 人心齐泰山移: 美国高法将重审大学招生中的种族歧视问题 (转载)	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)
● 其实亚洲人提不出来比白人更公平的议案的	● All Asians must stand up against racial reference
● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)	● Ivies should discriminate against Asians
进入Parenting版参与讨论

s******3
发帖数: 7297

151

Asian Academic Robot

s*******l
发帖数: 4870

152

你直说不就完了吗？还asian voting block，欺负我阅读理解有问题的人 :(

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 我投的是yes啊，你再读一遍我的帖子？：P

a*m
发帖数: 6253

153

要么瘦！要么死！
你太牛了。。。
俺投了神圣的三票，连我儿子都上了。。。不投白不投！

【在 s*******l 的大作中提到】

: 你直说不就完了吗？还asian voting block，欺负我阅读理解有问题的人 :(

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

154

搬一篇文章，来自于文学城：
http://bbs.wenxuecity.com/znjy/1657842.html
如果您还没有在80-20全美亚裔教育基金会的民调书上签字的话，请马上去投票赞成（
FOR)高校取消用族裔（race）作为录取标准。
http://admin.80-20nj.info/cgi/80/e?l=8/11e/f&w=no
基本背景：
历史性的时刻已经到来了：2/21/2012，美国最高法院决定审理用“族裔”的理由来提
高亚裔和白人高校入学门槛的做法是否违宪。您--关爱孩子未来的父母--现在就可以花
一分钟时间来帮助孩子增大孩子上他们理想大学的机会。请您立即投票赞成（FOR） 80
-20全美亚裔教育基金会的民调书，清楚明白地表明亚裔在这件案子上的立场。
误区1：作为少数族裔，我们亚裔应该支持“族裔优先”的招生政策（race-based
admission policy)
回答：在高校入学上，我们亚裔从来就是不受欢迎的少数族裔（over-represented
minority）。资料显示，亚裔在美国要比其他族裔成绩优秀许多才能上同样的学校。要
上同样的名校，亚裔SAT要考1550分，白人1410分，而非裔只需要1100分*（英文和数学
满分是1600）。亚裔入学这么高的门槛使得许多亚裔的大学申请者非常害怕，有些干脆
拒绝列出他们是亚裔—其实学校一看名字就能知道哪些孩子是亚裔。。。所以这个race
-based admission policy对我们亚裔是非常不利的。
加州的公立高校自从1996年取消了‘族裔优先’的招生政策后，亚裔学生在加州大学的
比例马上增大一倍。
(*Source: "No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite
College Admission and Campus Life" by Thomas Espenshade (Princeton
University Press, 2009)
误区2：现在美国西裔和非裔的势力这么大，你们这就是瞎折腾
回答：其实类似的案子历史上一共两次：1978年和2003年。当时的最高法院以5：4的微
弱优势准许在有限情况下用族裔作为录取条件。当时的swing vote Justice O'Connor
说：“25年后就不需要再有这样的‘族裔优先’了。”现在O'Connor已经退休。取代她
的Alito坚决反对任何族裔因素。据分析，现在的8位最高法官（第九位 Justice Kagan
已经因为conflict interest推出裁决）有四位(Alito, Roberts, Thomas, Scalia)是
会反对族裔优先的，三位(Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayor)会支持。这样只有Justice
Kennedy是唯一的Swing vote.所以我们相信机会难得，我们这次真的可能一起来搭这个
案子的顺风车，做“压死骆驼的最后一根稻草”来推翻“族裔优先”政策。
误区3：你们反对了这个政策会成为其他少数族裔的敌人，而搬石头砸自己的脚
回答：应该不会。我们赞同高校招生时候考虑申请人的综合素质。综合素质包括申请学
生现在的学术成绩和未来可能的成功潜力，例如申请人是否能在不利的生活环境中仍能
不懈努力等 (i.e. Overcome adversity under socio-economic constraint). 我们相
信这样的定位能给所有的考生提供一个公平竞争的机会，也能给学校足够的弹性来制定
他们的教育的目标。我们认为在高校录取政策上，经济家庭背景（social economic
background）是一个比族裔（race）或种族（ethnicity）更好的录取标准。
误区4：你们这是在反对平权法案（Affirmative Action)
回答：这是反对者混淆视听的一个幌子。美国劳工部对平权法案的定义是“无论种族，
肤色，宗教信仰，性别，原国籍和是否残疾，保证所有个人都有平等的就业机会”（“
[E]nsure that all individuals have an equal opportunity for employment,
without regard to race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability”)
现在如果采用‘族裔优先’的政策的话其实是反向歧视，以惩罚综合素质优异的亚裔学
生来降低他们进入理想学校的机会，让出位置给别人。
我们支持平等的机会而不是平等的结果。压抑优秀人才的做法违反了自由，民主，平等
的原则。
“I had a 3.7 undergraduate GPA. As an Asian I didn't qualify for loans or
grants as I was not an 'under-rep' minority so worked 3 jobs to get through
school. One of them was to tutor 'under-rep' minorities that usually had GPA
in the 1's and 2's and had an overall graduation rate of 30%. Just lowering
the bar to absolute rock bottom to meet diversity quotas is absolutely,
positively absurd. They never graduate...because most weren't qualified to
go. Fix the problem in K-12 because it's pointless by college.” —BrandonH
, St. Louis, upon reading “Some Asian’s College Strategy: Don’t Check ‘
Asian’”
误区5：你们这样做会减低学校的多元化（diversity）
回答：多元化并不是只停留在族裔上的。思想，文化和成长背景等等都是多元化更重要
的组成部分。试问一个中产阶级的白人孩子是和另一个住在他家边上的中产阶级的黑人
孩子有更多共同点还是和其他国家某贫困区里的另一个白人孩子有更多共同点。
误区6：很多亚裔孩子高分低能，所以名校不录取他们
回答：就是类似的偏见让林书豪坐了许多冷板凳。也正是这种偏见让亚裔学生爬藤难上
加难，这完全是禁锢亚裔青年的恶性循环：强迫亚裔比其他学生优秀许多才录取=》要
成绩拔尖就要牺牲许多同龄人的乐趣=》加大了种族学业上的差距=》这些亚裔太可怕，
不能录取太多=》必须加大成绩差别，把录取标准定得更高。
误区7:我们这样做会挑起种族争端
回答：正相反，我们是请社会少关注族裔，而更多地关心个人资格。美国是唯一一个发
展国家在高校申请上考虑族裔的。加拿大，澳大利亚，和欧洲国家根本不问这个问题。
正如最高法院的总法官John Robert说的：“停止种族歧视的办法就是不要用种族的因
素作为歧视的原因。”
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop
discriminating on the basis of race.” — Chief Justice John Roberts

s*******t
发帖数: 7746

155

投了FOR两票，到处转了，再up 顶上十大！

t***s
发帖数: 300

156

上首页了

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

I*****e
发帖数: 7085

157

我就不理解，“清醒”的华裔“精英”怎么这么多？
要是黑人也这样，现在公共汽车上有色人种还不能和白人坐在一个区域里呢
说投票没用的，2000年florida可是三百票决定总统选举的。 every vote counts!
说征集签名没用的，难道不知道美国有个职业叫lobbyist?
自己族裔的权益，自己不争，还劝想争的人别争了。

【在 t***s 的大作中提到】

: 上首页了
:
: 80

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

158

赞！

【在 I*****e 的大作中提到】

: 我就不理解，“清醒”的华裔“精英”怎么这么多？
: 要是黑人也这样，现在公共汽车上有色人种还不能和白人坐在一个区域里呢
: 说投票没用的，2000年florida可是三百票决定总统选举的。 every vote counts!
: 说征集签名没用的，难道不知道美国有个职业叫lobbyist?
: 自己族裔的权益，自己不争，还劝想争的人别争了。

l******a
发帖数: 16364

159

投了两票，for对吧

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

i******m
发帖数: 2591

160

beyond偶们这群大妈也look了
该投的还是要投
点击一下不会死人的

an
term.
score
job

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

相关主题
● 80-20关于亚裔在大学入学受歧视的正式文宣	● 我不反对AA了，原因是
● 【转载】Asian-American Parenting and Academic Success	● 紧急动员：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校的机会
● 转载纽约时报：亚裔孩子聪明反被聪明误 (转载)	● 紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票，来捍卫你孩子公平竞争 (转载)
进入Parenting版参与讨论

g*****y
发帖数: 549

161

日，竟然有人投票against。

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

m******0
发帖数: 1306

162

俺替全家投了4票FOR.

【在 i******m 的大作中提到】

: beyond偶们这群大妈也look了
: 该投的还是要投
: 点击一下不会死人的
:
: an
: term.
: score
: job

s*********5
发帖数: 5637

163

当然SAT的考分只是综合能力的一部分,不过大家一看这个主要指标就可以知道亚裔要进入他们理想的高校的门槛比其他族裔要高多少。
上世纪的前五十年，大批犹太人涌入美国，当时藤校的那些白人也不愿意犹太人比例太
高。他们称此为“Jewish Problem"，并用各种办法限制他们入学。
今天，虽然犹太裔的人口只占美国亚裔人口的40%，他们的爬藤率却是亚裔的两倍。他们在美国的政治，经济，文化影响力更不知道比亚裔们大多少。
以下数据是犹太人在藤校中的比例
Columbia 30%,
Yale 27%,
Harvard 25%,
U Penn 25%
Cornell 23%, and
Brown 22%
这篇Yahoo的文章说我们亚裔都不敢承认自己是亚裔。这是多么悲哀的一件事呀。
http://news.yahoo.com/asians-college-strategy-dont-check-asian-
为什么会有这么大的差距？犹太人有这样搭顺风车增大自己孩子入学率的机会时，他们会说我的一票没用吗？
恳请大家像犹太人学习，不要放弃任何一个可以提高自己族裔在美国地位的机会！
Vote “FOR" in the survey and send it to all of your friends!
五万个签名不容易争取。夫妇二人各可以投一票，学龄的孩子如果能明白投票意义的也可以投一票。如果父母有绿卡或是美国公民的话，他们也可以投。我家一共投了五张赞成票。

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

164

80-20? 你是在搞笑吧? 一个支持左派民主党的组织，一个直接间接的导致了 AA等逆向
种族歧视政策发扬光大的组织，居然表演起无辜，扮演起反AA的领导者来了。
给一点consistency好不好? 当别人都不看你们卑鄙历史的是不是?

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

165

又是你这个80-20党代表。你不如换个其它组织来搞这个事，支持率可以高一点。
第一千遍的指出，你们的矛盾之处就是身为民主党基层组织，决定了你们的成员大多数
是左派思想，即以支持伟光正的AA为主，这次却要违反基本盘，去扮演右派反AA，结果
必然是你们自己非死忠的支持者会犹疑退出，而右派反AA的鉴于历史很少会搭理你们，
失败就是必然的。
当然可能你们的目的并不是真正反AA，而是发现华人偏右的也很多，这次摆个姿态改善
形像而已。这是政治手段，倒也无话可说。

进入他们理想: ...................

【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】

: 当然SAT的考分只是综合能力的一部分,不过大家一看这个主要指标就可以知道亚裔要进入他们理想的高校的门槛比其他族裔要高多少。
: 上世纪的前五十年，大批犹太人涌入美国，当时藤校的那些白人也不愿意犹太人比例太
: 高。他们称此为“Jewish Problem"，并用各种办法限制他们入学。
: 今天，虽然犹太裔的人口只占美国亚裔人口的40%，他们的爬藤率却是亚裔的两倍。他们在美国的政治，经济，文化影响力更不知道比亚裔们大多少。
: 以下数据是犹太人在藤校中的比例
: Columbia 30%,
: Yale 27%,
: Harvard 25%,
: U Penn 25%
: Cornell 23%, and

b**i
发帖数: 257

166

Stop being impartial. It doesn't get you any applaud on a Chinese BBS. Being
an Asian myself, I don't care if white/black people get worse treatment
getting into college. If it helps our kids (yours included), it's a good
thing. The nature of human is selfish. If we Asian are good at taking test,
we should make test the only standard (if we could) for everything. What's
wrong of taking advantage of the rules? Or even better, make the rules in
your favorite if you are strong enough. I'd like to make my income all taxed
at 15% and make the rich people taxed at 35% but I can't because I don't
have the power to make the rules.

tests.
social

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

167

thanks

a-

【在 x**s 的大作中提到】

t***s
发帖数: 300

168

又是你这个80-20党代表。你不如换个其它组织来搞这个事，支持率可以高一点。
第一千遍的指出，你们的矛盾之处就是身为民主党基层组织，决定了你们的成员大多
数是左派思想，即以支持伟光正的AA为主，这次却要违反基本盘，去扮演右派反AA，结
果必然是你们自己非死忠的支持者会犹疑退出，而右派反AA的鉴于历史很少会搭理你们
，失败就是必然的。
---------------------------------
有其它组织搞这个事吗？如果有，我也去支持

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

: 又是你这个80-20党代表。你不如换个其它组织来搞这个事，支持率可以高一点。
: 第一千遍的指出，你们的矛盾之处就是身为民主党基层组织，决定了你们的成员大多数
: 是左派思想，即以支持伟光正的AA为主，这次却要违反基本盘，去扮演右派反AA，结果
: 必然是你们自己非死忠的支持者会犹疑退出，而右派反AA的鉴于历史很少会搭理你们，
: 失败就是必然的。
: 当然可能你们的目的并不是真正反AA，而是发现华人偏右的也很多，这次摆个姿态改善
: 形像而已。这是政治手段，倒也无话可说。
:
: 进入他们理想: ...................

B******1
发帖数: 9094

169

Hehe.
I felt your anger, but I keep my stance. Given the make-up of our society
and the corresponding racial represenation in higher education, AA is needed
to be a factor when college admission is concerned. African Americans and
Spanish-speaking populations need to have their fair chance of enjoying higher
learning and the right to be part of the society-building process. They, and
Native Americans, etc., should not be ignored and labeled as college-
nonworthy classes.
College is not an institution to make lawyers, physicians, bankers, and
scientists ONLY. College is not an institution to reward those who have
higher standard test scores ONLY. College is not an institution separate,
independent, or insulated from the larger society we are living in. College
is an institution to morph a young mind into a better person who would contribute
to the well-being of the society.Therefore, under-represented groups need to
have a foothold in college. They need to be part of this society-building process.

Being
,
taxed

【在 b**i 的大作中提到】

: Stop being impartial. It doesn't get you any applaud on a Chinese BBS. Being
: an Asian myself, I don't care if white/black people get worse treatment
: getting into college. If it helps our kids (yours included), it's a good
: thing. The nature of human is selfish. If we Asian are good at taking test,
: we should make test the only standard (if we could) for everything. What's
: wrong of taking advantage of the rules? Or even better, make the rules in
: your favorite if you are strong enough. I'd like to make my income all taxed
: at 15% and make the rich people taxed at 35% but I can't because I don't
: have the power to make the rules.
:

c***z
发帖数: 6348

170

这个看法有点共产主义了吧？
现在的问题是各族裔分数不同，你觉得这是歧视吗？应该公平吗？是不是各族裔应该分
数一样？
你说的aa， native american是前面的问题解决以后的问题啊，现在自己的问题都解决
不了还操心人家的问题？
再说，你怎么知道谁以后对社会贡献大？

needed
higher
and

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Hehe.
: I felt your anger, but I keep my stance. Given the make-up of our society
: and the corresponding racial represenation in higher education, AA is needed
: to be a factor when college admission is concerned. African Americans and
: Spanish-speaking populations need to have their fair chance of enjoying higher
: learning and the right to be part of the society-building process. They, and
: Native Americans, etc., should not be ignored and labeled as college-
: nonworthy classes.
: College is not an institution to make lawyers, physicians, bankers, and
: scientists ONLY. College is not an institution to reward those who have

相关主题
● 紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票，来捍卫你孩子公平竞争 (转载)	● 紧急投票：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校
● 我们需要用政治来消除孩子爬藤的人为障碍吗?	● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.
● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏	● 为了您的孩子,紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票
进入Parenting版参与讨论

O*****g
发帖数: 1257

171

Why should AA be race based? Why some minorities are favored, some not?
High-mined rhetoric like 'They need to be part of this society-building process' sounds good, as good as the soundbite from a politician seeking votes. But this is disingenuous, because in reality, there is not just Harvard, there are other universities, state colleges, where young individual can enjoy descend higher education. So if your SAT score is not high enough for Harvard, why not settle for another college? Why people have to lower the bar for you just because you are the favored minority? And especially, why should Asian kids be the sacrificial lamb, paying for this white guilt?

needed
higher
and

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

172

其它组织该写的早就写了。这里有个list。
http://www.utexas.edu/vp/irla/Fisher-V-Texas.html
你如果还没搞懂楼主的意思，他们80-20就是要投票决定他们这个组织是否也写这个
amicus brief，以及写的时候能说他们有多少签名。如果你觉得他们这个组织真的像他
们吹的一样有政治力量，并且你在他们组织里的一票是有用的，你应该去签。
80-20他们的真实目的当然是发展他们的会员，之后他们会开始寄垃圾邮件，鼓动你为
民主党选举出力。当然这事情之后你可以block他们。

【在 t***s 的大作中提到】

:
: 又是你这个80-20党代表。你不如换个其它组织来搞这个事，支持率可以高一点。
: 第一千遍的指出，你们的矛盾之处就是身为民主党基层组织，决定了你们的成员大多
: 数是左派思想，即以支持伟光正的AA为主，这次却要违反基本盘，去扮演右派反AA，结
: 果必然是你们自己非死忠的支持者会犹疑退出，而右派反AA的鉴于历史很少会搭理你们
: ，失败就是必然的。
: ---------------------------------
: 有其它组织搞这个事吗？如果有，我也去支持

s*********5
发帖数: 5637

173

如果你相信要给underpriviledged children more opportunity的话，你不觉得social
economic background比race是一个更公平的指标吗？
如果只看race，在Jennifer Lopez的孩子和刚移民又父母没上过大学的小中中间，如果
他们考分一样的话，应该给谁机会？The American dream belongs to hard working
people not to those who demand entitlement.

needed
higher
and

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

I*****e
发帖数: 7085

174

看了一下，没看出来哪个是华人组织，烦请告知他们的webpage

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

: 其它组织该写的早就写了。这里有个list。
: http://www.utexas.edu/vp/irla/Fisher-V-Texas.html
: 你如果还没搞懂楼主的意思，他们80-20就是要投票决定他们这个组织是否也写这个
: amicus brief，以及写的时候能说他们有多少签名。如果你觉得他们这个组织真的像他
: 们吹的一样有政治力量，并且你在他们组织里的一票是有用的，你应该去签。
: 80-20他们的真实目的当然是发展他们的会员，之后他们会开始寄垃圾邮件，鼓动你为
: 民主党选举出力。当然这事情之后你可以block他们。

s*********5
发帖数: 5637

175

对你这种有成见的人我没什么好说的。我想问问你除了每次冲出来大骂80-20一番，你
为亚裔在美国地位的增高做过什么呢？
民主党白宫早已file了Legal Brief在这件案子上支持学校用族裔来区分申请人。
Justice Kegan是file这个brief的白宫solicitation general，这是为什么她不参与这
次审理的原因。这件事上民主党和80-20的立场是完全相反的。你自己去看看报纸再发
评论吧！
如果你不相信80-20的话，你找一个已经筹集到了5000以上的支持的亚裔的组织出来，
我也去加入他们。

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

L********r
发帖数: 758

176

尽管我已经投了2票yes，可我觉得你说的有一定道理。不过，关键问题是这个AA也应该
进化一下怎么能50年不变总谈race。社会结构和主流观念都有了很大改变，现在合理的
AA应该强调对social economic disadvantaged的照顾而不该再是racial based。同时
这也最大的符合你文中所说的大学的理想功能。我实在搞不懂为啥一谈到种族特殊性问
题，就强调非裔西裔在贫穷人口中的比例是主要原因，而当制定照顾政策时就不能直接
target根本（贫穷阶层），而要退而求其次的target一个只是有些正相关的表象（种族
）呢？

needed
higher
and

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

b**i
发帖数: 257

177

First, I am not angery. I just don't understand why a Chinese would hold an
opinion that hurts their own kids' future on a Chinese BBS. The only reason
I could come up with is that a post like yours make you feel that you are
better than other "selfish" Chinese. And that you have a unique view of the
whole thing that's beyond the comprehension of less "intelligent" people
like us.
Second, none of your reply are even remotely related to mine. You just copy
and pasted your earlier post. I know your stand on this issue and you sound
like a perfect politician. Your posts show great writing skills, carefully
chosen words and nice logic skills. But they don't mean anything because
your goal is all wrong. You are trying to pursuade us Chinese to look at
things from the view of white/black/hispanic people. It's never gonna happen
.
Remember, nobody is arguing with you what is right for the HUMANKIND. We are
doing what's right for us and our kids (Asian that is, in case you get too
involved in the debate and forgot)

needed
higher
and

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

c***z
发帖数: 6348

178

rerere

an
reason
the
copy
sound

【在 b**i 的大作中提到】

: First, I am not angery. I just don't understand why a Chinese would hold an
: opinion that hurts their own kids' future on a Chinese BBS. The only reason
: I could come up with is that a post like yours make you feel that you are
: better than other "selfish" Chinese. And that you have a unique view of the
: whole thing that's beyond the comprehension of less "intelligent" people
: like us.
: Second, none of your reply are even remotely related to mine. You just copy
: and pasted your earlier post. I know your stand on this issue and you sound
: like a perfect politician. Your posts show great writing skills, carefully
: chosen words and nice logic skills. But they don't mean anything because

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

179

不要紧，俺很耐心。
http://www.asianamericanlegal.com/
http://www.apalc.org/

【在 I*****e 的大作中提到】

: 看了一下，没看出来哪个是华人组织，烦请告知他们的webpage

L********r
发帖数: 758

180

这我不能同意，如果现在的AA是基于贫困的照顾，我会投No，尽管我的孩子在入学问题
上应该会吃一点亏。我觉得即使从我们自己的角度出发，fairness还是对我们长远的利
益最有利的。Selfishness can never take us far. Because when we hold our
selfish view strongly, we lose the opportunity of compromise and cooperate
with other people. That is exactly the problem the nowdays bi-party american
society has to overcome.

an
reason
the
copy
sound

【在 b**i 的大作中提到】

相关主题
● 紧急动员: 决战最高法院!!!!!!!! 请投票捍卫你孩子公平竞争入!!!!!!!!!!!	● 其实亚洲人提不出来比白人更公平的议案的
● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的七个常见误区	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)
● 人心齐泰山移: 美国高法将重审大学招生中的种族歧视问题 (转载)	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)
进入Parenting版参与讨论

B******1
发帖数: 9094

181

Affirmative Action is about equal opportunity.
Even with affirmative action and many laws enforcing thereof, African
Americans, Hispanic Americans, and American Indians face unequal
opportunities in our society. Consider the following facts:
If you are born as a member of these minority groups, you will be 2-3 times
as likely to be born into poverty, and may be twicely likely to die before
celebrating your first birthday, as you would if you were born white.
If you are lucky or strong enough to survive your very first year, you will
be far more likely than the other Americans to grow up in poor
neighborhoods where all the good-paying jobs have fled.
Now, the Asian ethnic group, which benefited from the Affirmative Action and
which feels that the protection thereof is not necessary any more, would turn
away from those less forunate minorities, at least in the aspect of college
admission policies. Remember, we are still the minority and we still face all
kinds of inequality at work place though our kids' SAT scores are sky high.
Shouldn't we provide some opportunity for the less fortunate race to continue
benefitting from the same policy we have benefited from?
When you donate money to HOPE school in China, you give the children a
chance to become better. Affirmative Action is doing a similar deed to those
unprivileged groups on a much larger scale: an opportunity to break out of
the downward spiral!

process' sounds good, as good as the soundbite from a politician seeking
votes. But this is disingenuous, because in reality, there is not just
Harvard, there are other universities, state colleges, where young
individual can enjoy descend higher education. So if your SAT score is not
high enough for Harvard, why not settle for another college? Why people
have to lower the bar for you just because you are the favored min: ority?
And especially, why should Asian kids be the sacrificial lamb, paying for
this white guilt?

【在 O*****g 的大作中提到】

: Why should AA be race based? Why some minorities are favored, some not?
: High-mined rhetoric like 'They need to be part of this society-building process' sounds good, as good as the soundbite from a politician seeking votes. But this is disingenuous, because in reality, there is not just Harvard, there are other universities, state colleges, where young individual can enjoy descend higher education. So if your SAT score is not high enough for Harvard, why not settle for another college? Why people have to lower the bar for you just because you are the favored minority? And especially, why should Asian kids be the sacrificial lamb, paying for this white guilt?
:
: needed
: higher
: and

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

182

可笑的逻辑，每个亚裔努力工作，占据高层职位，就是在提高亚裔的地位，而且话说回
来，即使别人没做过什么，也比你这种支持民主党间接支持AA支持逆向种族歧视从而降
低亚裔在美国地位的垃圾好一千遍。
这件事上民主党和80-20的立场是完全相反的，本来骂得就是这个虚伪，你又何必强调。
如果你们80-20真要写amicus就应该像其它组织一样早就写了，又何必惺惺作态在此募
集，醉翁之意不在酒?
俺政治独立，对什么组织没什么研究，所以提不出来其它组织。这件事上俺也已经去你
们的垃圾网站签了名，所以你想说俺是反对派未免师出无名，但是俺自己也会鼓励他人
继续block你们80-20的垃圾邮件，因为俺相信80-20会继续支持民主党选举，从而把这
次的小恩小惠在大层面上彻底抹杀。

【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】

: 对你这种有成见的人我没什么好说的。我想问问你除了每次冲出来大骂80-20一番，你
: 为亚裔在美国地位的增高做过什么呢？
: 民主党白宫早已file了Legal Brief在这件案子上支持学校用族裔来区分申请人。
: Justice Kegan是file这个brief的白宫solicitation general，这是为什么她不参与这
: 次审理的原因。这件事上民主党和80-20的立场是完全相反的。你自己去看看报纸再发
: 评论吧！
: 如果你不相信80-20的话，你找一个已经筹集到了5000以上的支持的亚裔的组织出来，
: 我也去加入他们。

t***s
发帖数: 300

183

From www.80-20initiative.net
Mission: 80-20 is a national, nonpartisan, Political Action Committee
dedicated to winning equal opportunity and justice for all Asian Americans
through a SWING bloc vote, ideally directing 80% of our community's votes
and money to the presidential candidate endorsed by the 80-20, who better
represents the interests of all APAs. Hence, the name "80-20" was created.
From www.80-20educationalfoundation.org
80-20 Educational Foundation is a 501(C)(3) tax-exempt organization. It is
devoted to furthering equal opportunity in the workplace and equal justice
for Asian Americans. It has the same goals as 80-20 Initiative, Inc. with an
overlapping Board. However, these organizations use different approaches.
80-20 Educational Foundation focuses on political education, it does not
take political action such as endorsement of political candidates. The two
organizations, while sharing the same goal, are operated independently. All
donations to this Foundation are tax deductible.
该组织自我定义是nonpartisan

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

s*********5
发帖数: 5637

184

据说已经有4个亚裔组织发了“法庭之友”的brief来支持学校。你再帮我们查查这些亚
裔组织在这件事情上的立场，免得我们站错了队。

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

: 不要紧，俺很耐心。
: http://www.asianamericanlegal.com/
: http://www.apalc.org/

I*****e
发帖数: 7085

185

where can i vote?

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

: 不要紧，俺很耐心。
: http://www.asianamericanlegal.com/
: http://www.apalc.org/

I*****e
发帖数: 7085

186

美国的穷人大部分是因为懒，中国的穷人大部分是因为国家政策

times
will

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Affirmative Action is about equal opportunity.
: Even with affirmative action and many laws enforcing thereof, African
: Americans, Hispanic Americans, and American Indians face unequal
: opportunities in our society. Consider the following facts:
: If you are born as a member of these minority groups, you will be 2-3 times
: as likely to be born into poverty, and may be twicely likely to die before
: celebrating your first birthday, as you would if you were born white.
: If you are lucky or strong enough to survive your very first year, you will
: be far more likely than the other Americans to grow up in poor
: neighborhoods where all the good-paying jobs have fled.

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

187

你新来的? 名义上当然是这样了，该组织在历次选举中一直支持民主党。

an

【在 t***s 的大作中提到】

: From www.80-20initiative.net
: Mission: 80-20 is a national, nonpartisan, Political Action Committee
: dedicated to winning equal opportunity and justice for all Asian Americans
: through a SWING bloc vote, ideally directing 80% of our community's votes
: and money to the presidential candidate endorsed by the 80-20, who better
: represents the interests of all APAs. Hence, the name "80-20" was created.
: From www.80-20educationalfoundation.org
: 80-20 Educational Foundation is a 501(C)(3) tax-exempt organization. It is
: devoted to furthering equal opportunity in the workplace and equal justice
: for Asian Americans. It has the same goals as 80-20 Initiative, Inc. with an

t***s
发帖数: 300

188

只要符合我们正当利益的，就支持

【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】

: 据说已经有4个亚裔组织发了“法庭之友”的brief来支持学校。你再帮我们查查这些亚
: 裔组织在这件事情上的立场，免得我们站错了队。

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

189

这是你们说的，为什么要俺来查? 照这个理论，俺说80-20每天有人自杀，你去查?

【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】

: 据说已经有4个亚裔组织发了“法庭之友”的brief来支持学校。你再帮我们查查这些亚
: 裔组织在这件事情上的立场，免得我们站错了队。

B******1
发帖数: 9094

190

You do have a point. Affirmative Action should not focus on race-related
issue only. In fact, AA is coupled with the skin color due to historical
reasons, some of which is similar to the voting block behavior or political
tactics. Ideally, AA should evolve into what you have correctly described as
social economic disadvantaged的照顾而不该再是racial based treatment. This
policy has been put into place for 50 years. The effects and side-effects
are well documented. The Asian population benefits tremendously from this
policy. The other minorities made some strides but not as large or
significant as those of the Asians. Women, gays and lesbians, etc., are
other groups that promoted their status.
In closing, I would repeat what an alien character has said: Family means
nobody gets left behind, or forgotten.

【在 L********r 的大作中提到】

: 尽管我已经投了2票yes，可我觉得你说的有一定道理。不过，关键问题是这个AA也应该
: 进化一下怎么能50年不变总谈race。社会结构和主流观念都有了很大改变，现在合理的
: AA应该强调对social economic disadvantaged的照顾而不该再是racial based。同时
: 这也最大的符合你文中所说的大学的理想功能。我实在搞不懂为啥一谈到种族特殊性问
: 题，就强调非裔西裔在贫穷人口中的比例是主要原因，而当制定照顾政策时就不能直接
: target根本（贫穷阶层），而要退而求其次的target一个只是有些正相关的表象（种族
: ）呢？
:
: needed
: higher

相关主题
● All Asians must stand up against racial reference	● 【转载】Asian-American Parenting and Academic Success
● Ivies should discriminate against Asians	● 转载纽约时报：亚裔孩子聪明反被聪明误 (转载)
● 80-20关于亚裔在大学入学受歧视的正式文宣	● 我不反对AA了，原因是
进入Parenting版参与讨论

l*****r
发帖数: 7130

191

每次投民主党不等于就是民主党啊。你这个逻辑有点问题。
一般来说，中国人在政治观点上亲民主党多，经济观点上亲共和党多。

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

: 你新来的? 名义上当然是这样了，该组织在历次选举中一直支持民主党。
:
: an

s*********5
发帖数: 5637

192

其实在这件事上大家可以看得到我们亚裔之间也有许多不同意见。所以80-20的教育基
金会才需要征集签名，有实际数据来表明亚裔的态度到底是怎样的。
我觉得在某些问题上，大家可以求同存异。但因为意见不一致对某人或某组织进行人身
攻击就不好了。
对我来说，是有关我们的正当利益的，我们一定要争取。试想，如果是你找工作或晋升
时，明明你完全qualify，结果一个不qualify的人反而把你的机会夺走，大家还这么潇
洒吗。
平权法案是给大家均等的机会，而不是因为我们的族裔而把我的权益剥夺掉。

t***s
发帖数: 300

193

是啊，我是新来的
from wikipedia
"On September 26–27, 1998, in a meeting in Foster City, California, 80-20
was born."
98之后，我也全支持民主党。这不奇怪吧？

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

: 你新来的? 名义上当然是这样了，该组织在历次选举中一直支持民主党。
:
: an

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

194

说得对，白马非马么。
Affirmative Action的初衷很好，但是发展至今过犹不及，应该适当反对，这一点就使
得右派共和党在经济和政治上都是华裔目前正确的选择。

【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】

: 每次投民主党不等于就是民主党啊。你这个逻辑有点问题。
: 一般来说，中国人在政治观点上亲民主党多，经济观点上亲共和党多。

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

195

那你这次脱离党派狭隘来反对Affirmative Action真不容易，和俺去80-20签名是异曲
同工，不错不错。

20

【在 t***s 的大作中提到】

: 是啊，我是新来的
: from wikipedia
: "On September 26–27, 1998, in a meeting in Foster City, California, 80-20
: was born."
: 98之后，我也全支持民主党。这不奇怪吧？

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

196

他们已经交上去了。目前要vote的就是80-20了。
有很多人有误会，俺重申，俺自己也签了，也支持大家去签，但是不要因此就与80-20
从此保持同步，因为他们很可能在其它事情上就伤害到华人的利益。当然俺这可能是太
小看个人独立性了，属于废话。

【在 I*****e 的大作中提到】

: where can i vote?

I*****e
发帖数: 7085

197

下次再有类似这个和亚裔孩子利益有关的事情，麻烦你来这里喊一声

20

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

: 他们已经交上去了。目前要vote的就是80-20了。
: 有很多人有误会，俺重申，俺自己也签了，也支持大家去签，但是不要因此就与80-20
: 从此保持同步，因为他们很可能在其它事情上就伤害到华人的利益。当然俺这可能是太
: 小看个人独立性了，属于废话。

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

198

ok.

【在 I*****e 的大作中提到】

: 下次再有类似这个和亚裔孩子利益有关的事情，麻烦你来这里喊一声
:
: 20

s*********5
发帖数: 5637

199

实话告诉你，我的党派注册是共和党。但在投票之前，我得先看看右派共和党的候选人理不理我再投票。
2008年时为什么80-20要大家支持Obama？Obama一开始就签了对亚裔利益保证的签名书。McCain在80-20的一再催促下都拒签。你还要亚裔在这种情况下支持共和党候选人，我不知道逻辑是怎样的。
http://www.80-20initiative.net/news/preselect2008.asp
2008年大选时，80-20当时的决定过程等清清楚楚地写在上面。在这样的公共网页上，他们不能撒谎吧。为什么我们亚裔不能像犹太人那样，形成团结的力量，谁对咱有力，咱们就一起把选票给他们？
在孩子的升学问题上，咱先把自己的孩子的权利保护好。我不希望我的孩子因为国家政策和环境使然，在美国还要像我小时候一样把童年和青少年都花到和他的好朋友的学业的残酷竞争上。

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

: 说得对，白马非马么。
: Affirmative Action的初衷很好，但是发展至今过犹不及，应该适当反对，这一点就使
: 得右派共和党在经济和政治上都是华裔目前正确的选择。

t***s
发帖数: 300

200

说实话俺还真没有“党派狭隘”，只是因为对共和党那8年不满
俺是骑墙派

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

: 那你这次脱离党派狭隘来反对Affirmative Action真不容易，和俺去80-20签名是异曲
: 同工，不错不错。
:
: 20

相关主题
● 紧急动员：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校的机会	● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏
● 紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票，来捍卫你孩子公平竞争 (转载)	● 紧急投票：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校
● 我们需要用政治来消除孩子爬藤的人为障碍吗?	● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.
进入Parenting版参与讨论

I*****e
发帖数: 7085

201

民主党过去这四年也让我很不满

【在 t***s 的大作中提到】

: 说实话俺还真没有“党派狭隘”，只是因为对共和党那8年不满
: 俺是骑墙派

T*******i
发帖数: 4992

202

看了这个帖子里某些人的表演，不得不说，受过高等教育的脑残还真不少

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

Z*****l
发帖数: 14069

203

请问，奥巴马签了这个80-20交上去的亚裔利益保证签名书有什么用么? 现在80-20为什
么不拿着这个保证书去找奥巴马出头? 如果这件事因为三权分立管不着的话，请问奥巴
马签这个东东到底有什么用，保证了什么亚裔权利?
80-20是个小组织，并且从来只支持民主党，当然这不是说McCain因此便忽略它是对的
，但起码是个原因。事有大小轻重缓急之分，在华人政治经济利益都与共和党暗合的情
况下，以此小事而忽略大利，非常不智。
团结起来的前提是集体有一个共同的利益，如果你们的政策是要牺牲华裔的政治经济利
益去讨好左派民主党从而希望能够补回甚至获得更多利益，这是南辕北辙，毫无意义的。

人理不理我再投票。
书。McCain在80-20的一再催促下都拒签。你还要亚裔在这种情况下支持共和党候选人
，我不知道逻辑是怎样的。
，他们不能撒谎吧。为什么我们亚裔不能像犹太人那样，形成团结的力量，谁对咱有力
，咱们就一起把选票给他们？
政策和环境使然，在美国还要像我小时候一样把童年和青少年都花到和他的好朋友的学
业的残酷竞争上。

【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】

: 实话告诉你，我的党派注册是共和党。但在投票之前，我得先看看右派共和党的候选人理不理我再投票。
: 2008年时为什么80-20要大家支持Obama？Obama一开始就签了对亚裔利益保证的签名书。McCain在80-20的一再催促下都拒签。你还要亚裔在这种情况下支持共和党候选人，我不知道逻辑是怎样的。
: http://www.80-20initiative.net/news/preselect2008.asp
: 2008年大选时，80-20当时的决定过程等清清楚楚地写在上面。在这样的公共网页上，他们不能撒谎吧。为什么我们亚裔不能像犹太人那样，形成团结的力量，谁对咱有力，咱们就一起把选票给他们？
: 在孩子的升学问题上，咱先把自己的孩子的权利保护好。我不希望我的孩子因为国家政策和环境使然，在美国还要像我小时候一样把童年和青少年都花到和他的好朋友的学业的残酷竞争上。

c***e
发帖数: 1207

204

support!

s*********5
发帖数: 5637

205

还是不明白为什么现在当80-20花这么大的精力来办现在这件事时，你还骂他们是“要牺牲华裔的政治经济利益去讨好左派民主党”。
80-20为什么影响不大？就是因为有些亚裔社区领袖因为几次政见和他们的推荐不一致，就跑出来批评它否定它，把水搅混，把不明真相的人弄糊涂。
80-20为什么是小组织？就是因为有更多的亚裔还没有像犹太人那样意识到要改善自已在美国的地位，通过团结参政才是最有效的。但愿我们亚裔不需要更多坐冷板凳的林书豪或被辱而死的Danny Chen才意识到我们需要站出来保护自己的权益，也但愿我们不需要等到集中营开始时才让主流社会意识到不可以欺负亚裔。
如果你觉得80-20没有最好地代表亚裔的权益，请你更多地参与它并提出你的意见。正如甘地所
说，“YOU must be the change you wish to see happen."

发信人: Zeratul (Do All Evil), 信区: Parenting
标题: Re: 【请置顶紧急投票】改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Mar 1 13:18:52 2012, 美东)
请问，奥巴马签了这个80-20交上去的亚裔利益保证签名书有什么用么? 现在80-20为什
么不拿着这个保证书去找奥巴马出头? 如果这件事因为三权分立管不着的话，请问奥巴
马签这个东东到底有什么用，保证了什么亚裔权利?
80-20是个小组织，并且从来只支持民主党，当然这不是说McCain因此便忽略它是对的
，但起码是个原因。事有大小轻重缓急之分，在华人政治经济利益都与共和党暗合的情
况下，以此小事而忽略大利，非常不智。
团结起来的前提是集体有一个共同的利益，如果你们的政策是要牺牲华裔的政治经济利
益去讨好左派民主党从而希望能够补回甚至获得更多利益，这是南辕北辙，毫无意义的。

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

: 请问，奥巴马签了这个80-20交上去的亚裔利益保证签名书有什么用么? 现在80-20为什
: 么不拿着这个保证书去找奥巴马出头? 如果这件事因为三权分立管不着的话，请问奥巴
: 马签这个东东到底有什么用，保证了什么亚裔权利?
: 80-20是个小组织，并且从来只支持民主党，当然这不是说McCain因此便忽略它是对的
: ，但起码是个原因。事有大小轻重缓急之分，在华人政治经济利益都与共和党暗合的情
: 况下，以此小事而忽略大利，非常不智。
: 团结起来的前提是集体有一个共同的利益，如果你们的政策是要牺牲华裔的政治经济利
: 益去讨好左派民主党从而希望能够补回甚至获得更多利益，这是南辕北辙，毫无意义的。
:
: 人理不理我再投票。

o*******a
发帖数: 17

206

希望学校招生的时候可以真正做到摒弃偏见。亚裔小孩成绩一般都好，但是综合也许不
那么出色于社会舆论的想法，和学校招生的偏见是相关联的。正因为学校，舆论有偏见
，招生分数偏高，我们的孩子才要更努力的学习，做到比要求更高。同时因为太专注于
学习，可能就会忽略综合素质的培养。

b**i
发帖数: 257

207

I am not qulified to discuss AA because I don't have the time to research on
it. My point is that advocating fairness for other race is NOT a good thing
for us Chinese.
What is your definition "take us far"? If your goal is to have a better life
/better social status for us and our kids, you should take advantage of
every possible rule to give yourself the edge (such as making test score
more important in attending college in this discussion). Do you think US got
to no1 by playing fairness? No, it does everything in its power to create
advantage.
If your goal is to gain fairness among all races, please ignore me.

american

【在 L********r 的大作中提到】

: 这我不能同意，如果现在的AA是基于贫困的照顾，我会投No，尽管我的孩子在入学问题
: 上应该会吃一点亏。我觉得即使从我们自己的角度出发，fairness还是对我们长远的利
: 益最有利的。Selfishness can never take us far. Because when we hold our
: selfish view strongly, we lose the opportunity of compromise and cooperate
: with other people. That is exactly the problem the nowdays bi-party american
: society has to overcome.
:
: an
: reason
: the

L********r
发帖数: 758

208

也许咱们的人生经历差的有点远，我就说我看到自己身边的情况是合作和竞争共存，而
且经常可以转换关系。过分强调竞争就失去了改换business model的机会。真要像你说
的例子比如
(such as making test score more important in attending college in this
discussion)，我们只会看到亚洲小孩更多的变成书虫，同时挤窄了贫穷阶层向上的通
路激化族群间矛盾，让我们的孩子们貌似安逸的生活在更不稳定的两极社会中，也许哪
天在横穿贫民窟的开车途中成了炮灰。
即使如美国这么强大的联合体，在近来历次把竞争策略用到极致时，也开始广泛透支他
鼓吹平等自由时的信用。这些软实力往往更能便宜而经济的达到繁荣的目的。

on
thing
life
got

【在 b**i 的大作中提到】

: I am not qulified to discuss AA because I don't have the time to research on
: it. My point is that advocating fairness for other race is NOT a good thing
: for us Chinese.
: What is your definition "take us far"? If your goal is to have a better life
: /better social status for us and our kids, you should take advantage of
: every possible rule to give yourself the edge (such as making test score
: more important in attending college in this discussion). Do you think US got
: to no1 by playing fairness? No, it does everything in its power to create
: advantage.
: If your goal is to gain fairness among all races, please ignore me.

c****a
发帖数: 3173

209

现在还差多少票?
当初犹太人也遇到这种问题，不知道他们是如何解决的。
这个问题真的很严重，大家一定要团结起来把这个问题整整。

c****a
发帖数: 3173

210

还能投吗？我咋打不开网页了？

相关主题
● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的七个常见误区
● 为了您的孩子,紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票	● 人心齐泰山移: 美国高法将重审大学招生中的种族歧视问题 (转载)
● 紧急动员: 决战最高法院!!!!!!!! 请投票捍卫你孩子公平竞争入!!!!!!!!!!!	● 其实亚洲人提不出来比白人更公平的议案的
进入Parenting版参与讨论

t***s
发帖数: 300

211

有点慢，等一会就行了

【在 c****a 的大作中提到】

: 还能投吗？我咋打不开网页了？

t***s
发帖数: 300

212

－－－－－－－－－－－－－
为什么不是这样：
华裔小孩上名校容易了，就更有时间提高综合素质了？类比北京上海

【在 L********r 的大作中提到】

: 也许咱们的人生经历差的有点远，我就说我看到自己身边的情况是合作和竞争共存，而
: 且经常可以转换关系。过分强调竞争就失去了改换business model的机会。真要像你说
: 的例子比如
: (such as making test score more important in attending college in this
: discussion)，我们只会看到亚洲小孩更多的变成书虫，同时挤窄了贫穷阶层向上的通
: 路激化族群间矛盾，让我们的孩子们貌似安逸的生活在更不稳定的两极社会中，也许哪
: 天在横穿贫民窟的开车途中成了炮灰。
: 即使如美国这么强大的联合体，在近来历次把竞争策略用到极致时，也开始广泛透支他
: 鼓吹平等自由时的信用。这些软实力往往更能便宜而经济的达到繁荣的目的。
:

B******1
发帖数: 9094

213

If you equal SAT scores with College Entrance Test Scores in China, then
kids from big cities such as Beijing and Shanghai are the PREFERRED candidates
with LOWER scores (similar to African Americans in the U.S.), when compared with
students from either Sichuan or Hunan (Asian students in the U.S.), who have
MUCH HIGHER scores and who are let go.
In essence, your example SUPPORTS AA in the U.S.

【在 t***s 的大作中提到】

:
: －－－－－－－－－－－－－
: 为什么不是这样：
: 华裔小孩上名校容易了，就更有时间提高综合素质了？类比北京上海

x**k
发帖数: 358

214

building an Asian-backed university and make it the next Harvard? Why not
focus on building a network which promotes Asian culture, education
traditions as a spring board for better job opportunities for Asians?
Getting into a good college is nice to have. But getting into a better
enterprise is far more important to any professionals after graduation. The
notion of Top University = Top Job is overrated. The college educational
system is more a machine to generate money nowadays than a place to train
the young minds for challenges in the future. What is the best lesson you
learned in your life? In a classroom or on a battlefield?
Fourthly, why limit our thinking to races? We are all human beings living
under the same sky and breathing the same air. Find common ground. Work on
common
goals. And enjoy your humanhood. What is good for the social progression
would
be good to all races.
想法很好，能否展开说说该怎么实施，作为每一个华人应该怎么身体力行地参与进去
？

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: If you equal SAT scores with College Entrance Test Scores in China, then
: kids from big cities such as Beijing and Shanghai are the PREFERRED candidates
: with LOWER scores (similar to African Americans in the U.S.), when compared with
: students from either Sichuan or Hunan (Asian students in the U.S.), who have
: MUCH HIGHER scores and who are let go.
: In essence, your example SUPPORTS AA in the U.S.

L********r
发帖数: 758

215

你这个例子不对吧。北京上海的小孩可以多玩是因为大学招生不是全国统一排队吧。这
个地方配额不就和AA差不多么，不过是越富的地方要求的考分越低。

【在 t***s 的大作中提到】

:
: －－－－－－－－－－－－－
: 为什么不是这样：
: 华裔小孩上名校容易了，就更有时间提高综合素质了？类比北京上海

t***s
发帖数: 300

216

如果废除了AA，亚裔学生只需要比非裔高200分（而不是目前的450分）就能进入同样的
高校，那么他们可以用根多的时间去发展兴趣爱好，参加社会活动，提高素质。这对亚
裔学生是有利无害的。
什么样的逻辑让你得出结论，我的例子是支持AA的？

candidates
compared with
have

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

B******1
发帖数: 9094

217

Okay.
In China, there are two groups of students. One is in Beijing and Shanghai.
The other in Sichuan and Hunan.
In U.S., there are two groups of students. One is Asian. The other is
African American.
Can you equate one group in China with one group in U.S. so that we can
analyze futher your example?

【在 t***s 的大作中提到】

: 如果废除了AA，亚裔学生只需要比非裔高200分（而不是目前的450分）就能进入同样的
: 高校，那么他们可以用根多的时间去发展兴趣爱好，参加社会活动，提高素质。这对亚
: 裔学生是有利无害的。
: 什么样的逻辑让你得出结论，我的例子是支持AA的？
:
: candidates
: compared with
: have

x**k
发帖数: 358

218

影响舆论还不重要啊? 现代社会干啥不要从影响舆论入手啊？还真的以为美国宪法
一成不变，美国人的思维和三观这么多年没变过啊？那么多的宪法修正案能通过，
最初不就是通过舆论改变人的想法开始的？
事情总得一点点地去做。“不积跬步，无以至千里；不积小流，无以成江海。”
还记得”蜀之鄙有二僧“的故事吧， “人之立志，顾不如蜀鄙之僧哉？”

【在 b*****a 的大作中提到】

: 她还是跟 voting block 投的 for 吧

c****a
发帖数: 3173

219

实际上这里的入学政策和国内是一样的。比如上海北京的考生分数低照样能进名校，而
外地的考生要高很多分才能进名校的案例的道理是一样的。我从小在上海长大知道这个
政策就是保护当地人的，只是不对外说得很明。但是上海学生的综合素质是比外地考生
高，这个也是毋庸置疑的。上海学生毕业后更受到社会的青睐。
这种政策只会随着时间流逝而逐渐改变。

L********r
发帖数: 758

220

前提条件是 “such as making test score more important in attending college
in this
discussion”，你觉得有了这个政策，哪个亚裔家长肯让孩子去发展和录取无关的啥
爱好。这边不管是印度家长还是中国韩国日本家长，都是当初拼分拼出来的。
到时候，你又不是和非裔竞争，反正他们分低着呢，你是和亚裔的peer竞争。现在有AA
时的看似合作竞争关系就变成那时赤裸裸的竞争关系了。

【在 t***s 的大作中提到】

相关主题
● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)	● Ivies should discriminate against Asians
● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)	● 80-20关于亚裔在大学入学受歧视的正式文宣
● All Asians must stand up against racial reference	● 【转载】Asian-American Parenting and Academic Success
进入Parenting版参与讨论

c*******t
发帖数: 953

221

我无条件支持80-20。将来如果我入籍了，也无条件支持他们。他们要选民主党，就算
我想选共和党，我也要选80-20推荐的。这叫做团结的力量。你做research，有什么用
？你投入100个小时研究议案，你郑重投出去的那重如泰山的一票，和路边花了1分钟了
解之后的某黑人、拉丁人、白人，投出的一票，重量不同吗？我相信团结的力量，我支
持80-20。我还要拉更多的人像我一样。你不支持80-20也行，请选择个派别，从此支持
他们。只有这样，亚裔才能提高政治地位。

az
发帖数: 16686

222

你能打中文不啊

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Ever heard of 新东方?

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

223

能。但是不。哈哈哈

【在 az 的大作中提到】

: 你能打中文不啊

t***s
发帖数: 300

224

in this discussion”，
－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－
这话从何而来？原文是；“We will submit an Amicus Curiae (“friend of the
court” brief) advocating a race-neutral, merit-based college admission
policy; with broadly defined merit to include current scholastic achievement
and evaluated future potential of an applicant. This nuanced position
would provide fair and equitable opportunity to all applicants; while still
provide the schools broad discretion in defining education objectives. ”我
们要表明亚裔赞同以考生的综合素质（而
不是族裔）作为美国高校的招生标准。综合素质包括申请学生现在的学术成绩和未来可
能的成功潜力，例如申请人是否能在不利的生活环境中仍能不懈努力等 (i.e.
Overcome adversity under socio-economic constraint).
你觉得有了这个政策，哪个亚裔家长肯让孩子去发展和录取无关的啥
AA时的看似合作竞争关系就变成那时赤裸裸的竞争关系了。
－－－－－－－－－－－－
你可以说，亚裔拼分数是传统，亚裔之间的竞争是无法避免的。问题是，非裔虽然分
低，他们分的蛋糕可不少。取消了AA，亚裔可分的蛋糕更大了，你不认为对亚裔是
件好事？

【在 L********r 的大作中提到】

: 前提条件是 “such as making test score more important in attending college
: in this
: discussion”，你觉得有了这个政策，哪个亚裔家长肯让孩子去发展和录取无关的啥
: 爱好。这边不管是印度家长还是中国韩国日本家长，都是当初拼分拼出来的。
: 到时候，你又不是和非裔竞争，反正他们分低着呢，你是和亚裔的peer竞争。现在有AA
: 时的看似合作竞争关系就变成那时赤裸裸的竞争关系了。

t***s
发帖数: 300

225

.
Can you equate one group in China with one group in U.S. so that we can
－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－
我不能。任何简单的等同都是不合适的。
我只是说，目前的状况，
“To receive equal consideration for the top colleges, out of a 1600 SAT
maximum (verbal & math)
1550 for Asians = 1410 for Whites = 1100 for Blacks”
仅从这一点而言，亚裔与中国的非北京上海考生相似。

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Okay.
: In China, there are two groups of students. One is in Beijing and Shanghai.
: The other in Sichuan and Hunan.
: In U.S., there are two groups of students. One is Asian. The other is
: African American.
: Can you equate one group in China with one group in U.S. so that we can
: analyze futher your example?

B******1
发帖数: 9094

226

If you say: I voted FOR the proposal because it will benefit my race at the
expense of another race under the name of fairness, then you already lost
the battle, possibly the war.

r*****n
发帖数: 3014

227

这么比不妥，米国州立学校对州内的生源还照顾呢，中国高校分布不均是事实。。

candidates
compared with
have

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

B******1
发帖数: 9094

228

Well, a U.S. state university's major funding comes from the state tax
revenue with a string attached to admit a fixed quota of its own state
students.
Beida and Tshinghua get their funding from the Chinese government. All
Chinese students deserve to be treated equally when applying for a
government-funding National university!

【在 r*****n 的大作中提到】

: 这么比不妥，米国州立学校对州内的生源还照顾呢，中国高校分布不均是事实。。
:
: candidates
: compared with
: have

d****o
发帖数: 3197

229

您老还真是有闲。
介绍一下，你是怎么协调时间，又能上网灌水吵架，又能教育儿子的？

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Well, a U.S. state university's major funding comes from the state tax
: revenue with a string attached to admit a fixed quota of its own state
: students.
: Beida and Tshinghua get their funding from the Chinese government. All
: Chinese students deserve to be treated equally when applying for a
: government-funding National university!

t***s
发帖数: 300

230

您的意思是说，我们这样作实际上是以公平的名义妨碍公平？
什么是公平？这世界上有绝对的公平吗？民主党的公平和共和党的公平是一回事吗？
此时，此地，依靠正当的法律程序争取自身的利益，难道不是公平？
咱北大真是理想主义者扎堆的地方呀。
“Fourthly, why limit our thinking to races? We are all human beings living
under the same sky and breathing the same air. Find common ground. Work on
common goals. And enjoy your humanhood. What is good for the social
progression would be good to all races.”
您这一席话。。。您真以为社会的进步是这个模式？

the

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: If you say: I voted FOR the proposal because it will benefit my race at the
: expense of another race under the name of fairness, then you already lost
: the battle, possibly the war.

相关主题
● 转载纽约时报：亚裔孩子聪明反被聪明误 (转载)	● 紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票，来捍卫你孩子公平竞争 (转载)
● 我不反对AA了，原因是	● 我们需要用政治来消除孩子爬藤的人为障碍吗?
● 紧急动员：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校的机会	● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏
进入Parenting版参与讨论

B******1
发帖数: 9094

231

Uncle Lei Feng once said: Time is like water in a sponge. If you squeeze . .
.

【在 d****o 的大作中提到】

: 您老还真是有闲。
: 介绍一下，你是怎么协调时间，又能上网灌水吵架，又能教育儿子的？

d****o
发帖数: 3197

232

就算挤得出时间，也挤不出精力啊

.

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Uncle Lei Feng once said: Time is like water in a sponge. If you squeeze . .
: .

c***z
发帖数: 6348

233

真想大喊一声：你丫闭嘴！！
还是算了吧，您请！

the

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: If you say: I voted FOR the proposal because it will benefit my race at the
: expense of another race under the name of fairness, then you already lost
: the battle, possibly the war.

B******1
发帖数: 9094

234

I am a robot. :)

【在 d****o 的大作中提到】

: 就算挤得出时间，也挤不出精力啊
:
: .

d****o
发帖数: 3197

235

彪悍
其实这样挺好，这个帖子刚出来的时候根本没太大人气，吵一吵关注的人多了，广告效
果显著，北大功不可没。

【在 c***z 的大作中提到】

: 真想大喊一声：你丫闭嘴！！
: 还是算了吧，您请！
:
: the

c***z
发帖数: 6348

236

看着他偶觉得有点悲凉。。。

【在 d****o 的大作中提到】

: 彪悍
: 其实这样挺好，这个帖子刚出来的时候根本没太大人气，吵一吵关注的人多了，广告效
: 果显著，北大功不可没。

d****o
发帖数: 3197

237

汗
你也太多愁善感了
人就是多样化才有意思嘛，哪能大家想法都一样呢？那太也无趣了。

【在 c***z 的大作中提到】

: 看着他偶觉得有点悲凉。。。

c***z
发帖数: 6348

238

不是多愁善感，欧就觉得这么个事儿也有人出来唱反调，他纯粹是为了唱反调而唱反调。
以前不常灌水，第一次遇到101

【在 d****o 的大作中提到】

: 汗
: 你也太多愁善感了
: 人就是多样化才有意思嘛，哪能大家想法都一样呢？那太也无趣了。

d****o
发帖数: 3197

239

他呀，是经常来的:)
只是不知道为什么这次他在唱反调

调。

【在 c***z 的大作中提到】

: 不是多愁善感，欧就觉得这么个事儿也有人出来唱反调，他纯粹是为了唱反调而唱反调。
: 以前不常灌水，第一次遇到101

c***z
发帖数: 6348

240

我看他大概准备参加辩论大赛吧，以前准备正方的，这回准备反方的。

【在 d****o 的大作中提到】

: 他呀，是经常来的:)
: 只是不知道为什么这次他在唱反调
:
: 调。

相关主题
● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏	● 为了您的孩子,紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票
● 紧急投票：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校	● 紧急动员: 决战最高法院!!!!!!!! 请投票捍卫你孩子公平竞争入!!!!!!!!!!!
● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的七个常见误区
进入Parenting版参与讨论

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

241

哈，原来beida是无间道。

【在 d****o 的大作中提到】

: 彪悍
: 其实这样挺好，这个帖子刚出来的时候根本没太大人气，吵一吵关注的人多了，广告效
: 果显著，北大功不可没。

L********r
发帖数: 758

242

：【在 LoanSeeker (Need Better Loan) 的大作中提到: 】
：: 前提条件是 “such as making test score more important in attending
college
in this discussion”，
：－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－
：这话从何而来？
我本来是回下面这个帖子的，这话就从那个帖子里来。结果您进来哐当扔一句结论，但
竟然还不知我说的上下文是啥。嗨，别瞎耽误功夫了。我也懒得立在那里给你当风车了。
on
thing
life
got

【在 t***s 的大作中提到】

: 您的意思是说，我们这样作实际上是以公平的名义妨碍公平？
: 什么是公平？这世界上有绝对的公平吗？民主党的公平和共和党的公平是一回事吗？
: 此时，此地，依靠正当的法律程序争取自身的利益，难道不是公平？
: 咱北大真是理想主义者扎堆的地方呀。
: “Fourthly, why limit our thinking to races? We are all human beings living
: under the same sky and breathing the same air. Find common ground. Work on
: common goals. And enjoy your humanhood. What is good for the social
: progression would be good to all races.”
: 您这一席话。。。您真以为社会的进步是这个模式？
:

s*********5
发帖数: 5637

243

Is Brown a democrat or not, why did 80-20 support his opponents in the
California election? Can you read more before comment?

【在 Z*****l 的大作中提到】

: 你新来的? 名义上当然是这样了，该组织在历次选举中一直支持民主党。
:
: an

c*******u
发帖数: 12899

244

时间就象海绵里的水－鲁迅说的吧？

.

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Uncle Lei Feng once said: Time is like water in a sponge. If you squeeze . .
: .

N*****m
发帖数: 42603

245

未必是为了唱反调而唱
它的观点一直都是标准liberal的

调。

【在 c***z 的大作中提到】

: 不是多愁善感，欧就觉得这么个事儿也有人出来唱反调，他纯粹是为了唱反调而唱反调。
: 以前不常灌水，第一次遇到101

h*********e
发帖数: 6997

246

篮球棒球冰球等美国职业队招人要是也象你这么想，就好了，咱亚洲人也能经常有几个
名额。

discriminative
group
who never touch a book, he or she is in!

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

247

Affirmative Action is a racist proposition at best. Why not make all college
applications anonymous, and have the applicants present their cases and
show the admissions committee who they are inside.
You kept saying that the admissions committee is indeed judging the
applicants based on their socioeconomic status instead of race. I am telling
you that is simply not true.
Just because 80% of the black people are poor does not mean the other 20%
deserve the special treatment. Just because half of the Asian students
attend SAT preparation courses does not mean the other half deserve to get
their bars raised.
If it were up to me, I would say that let's keep the students' names and
race information away from the admissions committee, and have them judge all
applicants equally based on their merits and background. I think this
sounds like a fair system, don't you? I think a Chinese kid who grew up in
Brooklyn or downtown Philadelphia who scored 1200 on his SAT deserves to go
to a good University, don't you?
Your argument is so weak that all you can do is repeating the same thing
over and over.

times
will

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

248

Who the fuck ever said the Chinese education system is the touchstone?

candidates
compared with
have

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

249

Leave the crooked Chinese college admission system out of this discussion.
Tools had a good point. If the Asian kids could get into Harvard with 200
points less, then maybe they would have more time to spend more time on
extracurricular activities.

.

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

250

雷锋叔叔其实说的是，时间和乳沟一样，挤挤总会有的。

.

【在 B******1 的大作中提到】

: Uncle Lei Feng once said: Time is like water in a sponge. If you squeeze . .
: .

相关主题
● 人心齐泰山移: 美国高法将重审大学招生中的种族歧视问题 (转载)	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)
● 其实亚洲人提不出来比白人更公平的议案的	● All Asians must stand up against racial reference
● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)	● Ivies should discriminate against Asians
进入Parenting版参与讨论

b*******l
发帖数: 1737

251

那是你不会挤。

【在 d****o 的大作中提到】

: 就算挤得出时间，也挤不出精力啊
:
: .

s**********8
发帖数: 25265

252

靠. 不早说.

80

【在 a********k 的大作中提到】

(共1页)

进入Parenting版参与讨论

相关主题
● 80-20关于亚裔在大学入学受歧视的正式文宣	● 紧急投票：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校
● 【转载】Asian-American Parenting and Academic Success	● 为孩子的将来争取机会, 请进来.
● 转载纽约时报：亚裔孩子聪明反被聪明误 (转载)	● 为了您的孩子,紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票
● 我不反对AA了，原因是	● 紧急动员: 决战最高法院!!!!!!!! 请投票捍卫你孩子公平竞争入!!!!!!!!!!!
● 紧急动员：捍卫你孩子公平竞争入学名校的机会	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的七个常见误区
● 紧急动员：决战最高法院，请投庄严一票，来捍卫你孩子公平竞争 (转载)	● 人心齐泰山移: 美国高法将重审大学招生中的种族歧视问题 (转载)
● 我们需要用政治来消除孩子爬藤的人为障碍吗?	● 其实亚洲人提不出来比白人更公平的议案的
● Vote "FOR" for your children, 改写亚裔孩子要比非裔SAT高450分才能入名校的现实‏	● 关于‘族裔优先’招生政策的八个常见误区 (转载)

相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: asian话题: racial话题: americans话题: sat

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未名新帖统计// 7月16日

历史上的今天