c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 1 如果要讲种族，其实最不平衡的是犹太人，美国Jew人口6,489,000 (2.2%) as of 2008
（US Census Bureau Statistical Abstract 2009, Table 76）
但是占大学名额远远不止这个比例，例如NYU
New York University
Campus Information
School Website: New York University
Address: 50 West 4th Street
New York, NY 10003
USA
Map It
Phone Numbers: Office: (212) 998-4114
Office Fax:
Public/Private: Private
Commuter Campus? No
Enrollment:
Undergraduate: 21269
Graduate: 20000
Jewish Enrollment:
Undergraduate: 6000
Graduate: 5000
你们为神马不去抗议人家？非要咬自己的种族？
再看看犹太人的历史，在1950年以前，都有限制犹太人比例的法律，经过他们的不懈努
力，终于没有大学敢限制犹太人的比例。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Numerus_clausus_in
看看你们自己，不觉得羞耻么？ | m**n
发帖数: 9010 | 2 对AA的细节不够了解, 所以我暂时没有确定的立场.
总得来说, 对弱势族裔在教育上有一定照顾, 这个基本原则我不觉得
有多大问题. 那么具体执行有哪些问题, 还是要具体看现存的法律与现实.
比如该怎么照顾, 是完全按比例配额, 还是一部分配额一部分
自由竞争? 谁属于弱势族群?
总之我认为没必要把话说得那么绝.
2008
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 如果要讲种族，其实最不平衡的是犹太人，美国Jew人口6,489,000 (2.2%) as of 2008
: （US Census Bureau Statistical Abstract 2009, Table 76）
: 但是占大学名额远远不止这个比例，例如NYU
: New York University
: Campus Information
: School Website: New York University
: Address: 50 West 4th Street
: New York, NY 10003
: USA
: Map It
| r****z
发帖数: 12020 | 3 我不记得大学申请表上的种族分类上有犹太人这一类，难道我记错了？
2008
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 如果要讲种族，其实最不平衡的是犹太人，美国Jew人口6,489,000 (2.2%) as of 2008
: （US Census Bureau Statistical Abstract 2009, Table 76）
: 但是占大学名额远远不止这个比例，例如NYU
: New York University
: Campus Information
: School Website: New York University
: Address: 50 West 4th Street
: New York, NY 10003
: USA
: Map It
| z****0
发帖数: 3942 | 4 看看北大学子是如何看的，还是中英对照的。
顺便说一句：我看他“preferred language”用多了，中文确实成问题了。
发信人: Beida101 (北大学子), 信区: Parenting
标 题: Re: 不得了，美国奥物队60%华裔孩子，教授不愿意教了
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Jun 15 00:34:00 2012, 美东)
First, the selection criteria for Science Olympiad and college admission are
different. The former is one test (or three total tests) determines all
while the latter might consider MANY factors other than test scores.
Second, the purposes of the two events are different. Science Olympiad is
almost a pure competition to find the BEST while college is for education
for the next generation.
Third, if you think that a top university full of Asian is the solution to
social problems, maybe you should study the relationship between Chinese
universities and the Chinese society, or the relationship between Asian
universities and Asia.
Fourth, the alleged discrimination regarding college admission at Ivy
schools is just an allegation. Particularly for Harvard, which has no set
rules for admission benchmarks, it is extremely unlikely that any lawsuit or
even rulings would change the incoming freshman class dramatically.
Fifth, assuming, arguendo, that Harvard was discriminating against Asian
applicants. It would be very likely that Harvard would continue its
discrimination against those luckily admitted Asian students in Harvard.
Everything is related, right? Then how come there is no complaint against
Harvard from its Asian student bodies or its Asian alumni?
Finally, standard test scores can be improved by training or mock tests
within a short time. Experience with different cultures may take years or
decades to develop. What if the society needs SOMEONE who can deal with
sensitive culture issues after completing the college education? What if the
army needs someone can use slangs to motivate its foot soldiers? What if a
law firm needs a Spanish speaking attorney to handle a racial discrimination
case? Are you up to the challenge?
In closing, let me repeat that the following statement is a lie:
哈佛大学年初时被教育部调查是否在录取上
对亚裔有歧视之嫌，今年亚裔的录取率就是近年来最高的，比往年增加了15%。
我查了一下，这个调查开始１５天之后就被停止了，因为起诉的人撤诉了，现在也没有
类似的调查。这都是事实。８０－２０作为一个标榜自己多么神圣的组织，连这种给别
人抹黑给自己贴金的下三烂的伎俩都使得出来，欺负我们中国人没脑子，没逻辑，没调
查研究的能力，是不是？
你的谎言可能欺骗部分人一世，也可能蒙所有人一时，但你决不可能唬弄所有人一辈子
！等潮水落下去的时候，你会发现自己的泳裤都没了！
首先，科学竞赛和高考录取的选拔标准是不同。前者是一个测试（或共有三个测试）决
定一切而后者可能会考虑其他许多因素，比考试成绩。
第二，这两个事件的目的是不同的。科学奥林匹克几乎是纯粹的竞争找到最好的，而教
育学院为下一代。
第三，如果你认为亚洲的顶尖大学全是解决方案社会问题，也许你应该学习中国之间的
关系大学和中国社会，或与亚洲的关系大学和亚洲。
第四，涉嫌歧视就在常春藤大学录取学校只是一项指控。尤其是哈佛，没有设置入场基
准的规则，这是极不可能的任何诉讼或甚至裁决将大幅改变传入大一类。
第五，假设，arguendo，哈佛针对亚裔的歧视申请人。这将是非常可能的，哈佛大学将
继续其幸运的考入哈佛亚洲学生的歧视。一切都是相关的，对不对？然后，怎么来的，
有没有对投诉来自亚洲的学生团体或亚洲的校友哈佛？
最后，标准的测试成绩可以提高培训或模拟测试在很短的时间内。与不同文化的经验，
可能需要几年或几十年来发展。如果社会需要有人谁可以处理完成大学教育后，敏感的
文化问题？如果军队需要的人可以使用俚语，以激励其步兵？什么如果一家律师事务所
需要一个讲西班牙语的律师来处理种族歧视的情况吗？你是否准备好迎接挑战？
2008
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 如果要讲种族，其实最不平衡的是犹太人，美国Jew人口6,489,000 (2.2%) as of 2008
: （US Census Bureau Statistical Abstract 2009, Table 76）
: 但是占大学名额远远不止这个比例，例如NYU
: New York University
: Campus Information
: School Website: New York University
: Address: 50 West 4th Street
: New York, NY 10003
: USA
: Map It
| z****0
发帖数: 3942 | 5 还有这位同学的观点。我都懒得批驳。
发信人: dpg (肖浪--君子不党), 信区: Parenting
标 题: Re: 某些华人独善其身也就罢了
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jun 12 07:34:11 2012, 美东)
80%的NBA还能看，80%的亚裔学生的班教授不喜欢教，就这么简单。
把不相干没有可比性的两个事物放在一起类比，不能增加任何说服力。
我再强调一下，许多经历使得我认为，高中时代分数高并不代表将来的成就，而且基本
上，如果只分数高的，将来很多在社会上比较平庸，不是最差的那种，但是是比较平庸
的那种，我想很多教育者也有这样的感觉。所以如果只从亚裔需要比较高分数进大学，
不能得出学校录取不公正的结论。 | z****0
发帖数: 3942 | 6 还有这里北大学子的观点。他觉得亚裔站出来争取高校录取的平等待遇最终可能是搬起
石头砸了自己的脚。
发信人: Beida101 (北大学子), 信区: Parenting
标 题: Re: 望提高亚裔高校录取率的“法律之友”已递交最高法院
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jun 7 23:19:47 2012, 美东)
Well, you did not see the mistakes in the statement?
And you did not know the meaning of Hehe in a post????
Speaking of the political goals, what 80-20 is doing is the following:
Under the name of equal rights for all races, try to INCREASE the benefits
received by the race of the organization regardless of the impact of the
proposed change to the nation as a whole.
Moreover,the notion of using a voter bloc of one race to increase the
political weight thereof is ill-fated.
First, you cannot control how each of your member votes in a given election.
Second, you can never claim the WHOLE race vote according to your
instruction unless all people of the race join your organization. So the
claim that "80-20 helped a presidential candidate win the election" would
not carry much weight or pass a litmus test.
Third, if you support one party in one race and then support another party
in another race, well, you might not win the support from either party when
you need their support!
Fourth, pitching a fight against another minority group under the name of
equality in education while trying to improve the perceived political
prowess or attract more political members is a strategy which might
backfire.
In reality, the Chinese ethinic group is still a minority group, just like
the African American group and the Hispanic group, both in political
standing and in economical terms. If you stab those minority groups in the
back, do you expect they will be on your side when you need their help?? It
is a political game, in which the race card may not be an ace up your sleeve
, but may be the joker in the pack. There is still a long way before one can
say for sure, race is not an issue any more in the U.S. Until then, certain
racial considerations would do more good than harm to this nation.
【在 z****0 的大作中提到】
: 还有这位同学的观点。我都懒得批驳。
: 发信人: dpg (肖浪--君子不党), 信区: Parenting
: 标 题: Re: 某些华人独善其身也就罢了
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jun 12 07:34:11 2012, 美东)
: 80%的NBA还能看，80%的亚裔学生的班教授不喜欢教，就这么简单。
: 把不相干没有可比性的两个事物放在一起类比，不能增加任何说服力。
: 我再强调一下，许多经历使得我认为，高中时代分数高并不代表将来的成就，而且基本
: 上，如果只分数高的，将来很多在社会上比较平庸，不是最差的那种，但是是比较平庸
: 的那种，我想很多教育者也有这样的感觉。所以如果只从亚裔需要比较高分数进大学，
: 不能得出学校录取不公正的结论。
| B******1
发帖数: 9094 | 7 I support AA. Period.
If you have evidence to prove that one Chinese applicant was rejected and a
comparable Jewish student was accepted by the same school, print it out.
Otherwise, just citing these statistics might not offer any insight for or
slution to the current topic/problem.
Just one apple vs. apple case would be enough to bring down the house.
In God we trust. Everyone else? Bring your DATA! | z****0
发帖数: 3942 | 8 这个ID的观点和dpg类似。在美国大学里，亚裔超过半数的研究生班多了去了，没见到
有教授站出来抱怨。
发信人: lagoons (似水流年), 信区: Parenting
标 题: Re: 某些华人独善其身也就罢了
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Jun 10 23:47:56 2012, 美东)
你有权利全力支持，但你有什么权利判定不支持的就是小人？
他们的board member, Alice Huang, was one of the 2 percent who voted against
Fisher. “I worked at a university and I saw that if we had a class that is
80 percent Asian, it was not going to be a great experience for a large
amount of students attending”
我佩服这样的，积极为华人做事，又能有自己的分析判断，而且敢于做那2%。 | z****0
发帖数: 3942 | 9 你要的evidence和data就在80-20的文章里，包括出处。
当然，你有理由选择无视。因为您老已经声明了:“洋文啊？俺老土看不懂。您先翻译
一下，中不中？”
Is the racial preferences in college admission merely a “tie breaker”, a
“nudge factor”, and “one in many” consideration?
The “National Study of College Experience” (NSCE) project conducted over
9000 student interviews. Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade performed
rigorous regression analysis on the vast NSCE database and released the
empirical findings in his 2009 book [1], which was widely cited by the news
media: To receive equal consideration by elite colleges, Asian Americans
must outperform Whites by 140 points, Hispanics by 280 points, Blacks by 450
points in SAT (Total 1600). The result is not a simplistic test score
comparison: The differences have been controlled for other variables such as
sex, citizenship, athlete and legacy
status, # of AP tests and SAT II test, GPA, class rank, National merit
scholar status, and high school type.
We believe college admission policy should reflect the common American ideal
of Equal Opportunity, afforded to every individual through the “Equal
Protection Clause” in the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution. The
admission policy should not discriminate against any group of people for
innate collective characteristics, such as race and ethnicity, which an
individual can NOT change. Instead, it should be firmly based on individual
merit, which is to be broadly defined to include academic qualifications
necessary for successful college learning, and personal character strengths
such as perseverance, hardworking ethic, leadership skills, and individual
initiative to overcome adverse conditions, such as those imposed by
socioeconomic status.
Race, ethnicity and national origin ar daf e PROTECTED categories in the US
constitution, for good reasons. In a job interview, if you ask a candidate’
s race, you could be sued and your company could be investigated for racial
discrimination under the “Equal Protection Clause”. Why is college
admission so different? Not only the race question MUST be asked, you MUST
answer (or your last name would be Googled to determine your race), and your
answer MUST be used as the basis for differential treatment. Is this not
institutionalized reverse discrimination?
Furthermore, large racial preferences also hurt the intended beneficiaries.
It imposes an “academic mismatch” among the admitted students, reducing
the efficiency and quality of classroom instruction to all students, and
leading to academically weaker students to self-segregate into less
challenging classes, thereby reducing classroom diversity [2]. The US Civil
Right Commission issued a 2010 report about the disconcerting role of racial
preferences played in undermining minority graduation in science and
engineering programs [3]. In professions where universal qualification exams
are required, such as legal service, higher numbers of “racially preferred
” students entering the law schools did not lead to an increased numbers of
“racially preferred” lawyers because of the high attrition rate [4].
Large racial preferences were also found to hurt the minority pipeline to
academia [5].
It is time to do what every other developed nation does, which is NOT to
even ask the race question in college application.
Please join 80-20 TODAY. Go to http://www.8020initiative.net/membership/join.asp
Or send your check to: 80-20 PAC 13337 South St. #189 Cerritos, CA
90703. Family membership is $50 (two), individual $35, student $15.
Respectfully,
The 80-20 Collective Leadership
References
[1] "No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College
Admission and Campus Life" by Thomas Espenshade (Princeton University Press,
2009)
[2] “The Role of Ethnicity in Choosing and Leaving Science in Highly
Selective Institutions”, R. Elliott et. al. 37 Research in Higher Education
681 (1996)
[3] “Encouraging Minority Students to Pursue Science, Technology,
Engineering and Math Careers”, US Commission on Civil Rights, Briefing
Report, Oct 2010.
[4] “Are Black/White Disparities in Graduation and Passing the Bar Getting
Worse, or Better?” by R. Sander. http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_legal_studi/2006/09/ sander_2_black_.html
[5] “The Occupational Choices of High-Achieving Minority Students” (
Harvard University Press 2003)
a
【在 B******1 的大作中提到】
: I support AA. Period.
: If you have evidence to prove that one Chinese applicant was rejected and a
: comparable Jewish student was accepted by the same school, print it out.
: Otherwise, just citing these statistics might not offer any insight for or
: slution to the current topic/problem.
: Just one apple vs. apple case would be enough to bring down the house.
: In God we trust. Everyone else? Bring your DATA!
| c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 10 Oh? Why I am forbidden to use statistics here?
Remember, AA cited statistics and used that to prove their point.
Did AA give evidence to prove that one Black applicant was rejected and a
comparable Chinese student was accepted by the same school?
AA is trying to distort the free competition, and it is AA who used
statistics to bullshit people.
英文真费力。老大你是真不懂白人的虚伪？人家说什么你就信什么？
a
【在 B******1 的大作中提到】
: I support AA. Period.
: If you have evidence to prove that one Chinese applicant was rejected and a
: comparable Jewish student was accepted by the same school, print it out.
: Otherwise, just citing these statistics might not offer any insight for or
: slution to the current topic/problem.
: Just one apple vs. apple case would be enough to bring down the house.
: In God we trust. Everyone else? Bring your DATA!
| | | B******1
发帖数: 9094 | 11 I am confused. Are you fighting against the White or the Black?
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: Oh? Why I am forbidden to use statistics here?
: Remember, AA cited statistics and used that to prove their point.
: Did AA give evidence to prove that one Black applicant was rejected and a
: comparable Chinese student was accepted by the same school?
: AA is trying to distort the free competition, and it is AA who used
: statistics to bullshit people.
: 英文真费力。老大你是真不懂白人的虚伪？人家说什么你就信什么？
:
: a
| c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 12 Against racism, discrimination and inequality, of course.
【在 B******1 的大作中提到】
: I am confused. Are you fighting against the White or the Black?
| B******1
发帖数: 9094 | 13 You did not answer my question. Let me rephrase it:
What is your enemy regarding the admission policies in U.S universityies:
the White or the Black?
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: Against racism, discrimination and inequality, of course.
| c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 14 That is a misleading question.
I don't have enemies. I am against AA, which used statistics to show that
some certain group of people are under-represented, and tried to promote
this group, in the expense of another group, the Asian Americans.
I am against both their opinion, their policy and their proof. I am not
against any people.
Period.
【在 B******1 的大作中提到】
: You did not answer my question. Let me rephrase it:
: What is your enemy regarding the admission policies in U.S universityies:
: the White or the Black?
| m**n
发帖数: 9010 | 15 她的回答不是很清楚么 : 黑子还是白子不重要, 观点重要.
【在 B******1 的大作中提到】
: You did not answer my question. Let me rephrase it:
: What is your enemy regarding the admission policies in U.S universityies:
: the White or the Black?
| z****0
发帖数: 3942 | 16 We are fighting against the unfair treatment towards asians in college
admission, not against the Blacks or Whites.
I bet Blacks and Whites also want to be fairly treated, right?
【在 B******1 的大作中提到】
: You did not answer my question. Let me rephrase it:
: What is your enemy regarding the admission policies in U.S universityies:
: the White or the Black?
| B******1
发帖数: 9094 | 17 Race is only one consideration, not ALL the consideration, right?
Supporters of race-blind admission policies:
Which race is over-represented in the current makeup of U.S. college
students: White, Black, or Asian?
According to your plan, what would be an acceptable, FAIR representation of
the racial makeup in college?
In other words, from which race would the Asian wins more seats?
What could be the benefits of your plan to the nation?
What could be the downside of your plan to the nation? | c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 18 I am against the part of AA that aims at races. I don't like it that you
keep setting up conflict between races in your argument.
I have indicated that the most over-represented in current makeup of U.S.
college students is Jews.
My plan is shut up AA.
Since I am not a politician, I don't need to have an alternative plan to
replace AA.
But in fact I have thought about higher education and I am willing to share
with you:
Education, and in general, the flow of information and knowledge, should be
ultimately free.
Universities should not have admissions standard. Rather, they should have
strict graduation policy. | m**n
发帖数: 9010 | 19 我的理解:
1. AA的目的是帮助"under-represented group", 而不是限制哪个group
被over represented. 也就是说犹太人被over-represented与AA无关.
2. AA不是引入"quota". 也就是说亚裔学生比例不够高, 原则上与AA也无关.
你反对AA, 能不能说明一下我以上两点理解有哪里有问题? 换句话说,
你认为亚裔学生比例不够高, 从哪里与AA直接相关? 如果没有这个直接相关性,
你废除了AA也不解决问题.
share
be
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: I am against the part of AA that aims at races. I don't like it that you
: keep setting up conflict between races in your argument.
: I have indicated that the most over-represented in current makeup of U.S.
: college students is Jews.
: My plan is shut up AA.
: Since I am not a politician, I don't need to have an alternative plan to
: replace AA.
: But in fact I have thought about higher education and I am willing to share
: with you:
: Education, and in general, the flow of information and knowledge, should be
| z****0
发帖数: 3942 | 20 乖乖，北大又出新观点了。让看不惯常青藤对亚裔歧视的家长自己建个大学。
发信人: Beida101 (北大学子), 信区: SanFrancisco
标 题: Re: 不得了，美国奥物队60%华裔孩子，教授不愿意教了 (转载)
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Jun 15 13:18:43 2012, 美东)
Build an Asian-funded, Asian-supported university and make it the best. Are
you up to the challenge?
If you think Ivy League schools are discriminating against you, the best
offense would be to build a university of your own. Send the best of your
kids to that school and let the Ivy League schools look at themselves in the
mirror.
Just by repeating that "哈佛大学年初时被教育部调查是否在录取上对亚裔有歧视之
嫌，今年亚裔的录取率就是近年来最高的，比往年增加了15%" in order to garner
support for the alleged discrimination would not help you gain inroad during
the admission process.
Find some solid proofs, would you? Without proofs beyond a comparison with
the average SAT scores, your argument carries little weight because that is
not the whole picture.
I scoff at those who produced no evidence but empty claims. Yeah, that's me.
建立一个亚洲资助，支持亚洲的大学，并使它成为最好。你是否准备好迎接挑战？
如果您认为常春藤学校对你的歧视，最好的进攻将是建立一个属于自己的大学。发送您
的孩子最好的那所学校，让常春藤盟校在自己照照镜子。
只要重复"哈佛大学年初时被教育部调查是否在录取上对亚裔有歧视之嫌，今年亚裔的
录取率就是近年来最高的，比往年增加了15%"，为了争取支持指称的歧视，不会帮助你
获得在录取过程中侵害。
一些可靠的证据，你会吗？没有超越比较平均SAT成绩证明你的论点进行稍重，因为这
是没有的全貌。
我嘲笑那些生产没有证据，但空索赔。是啊，这就是我。
share
be
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: I am against the part of AA that aims at races. I don't like it that you
: keep setting up conflict between races in your argument.
: I have indicated that the most over-represented in current makeup of U.S.
: college students is Jews.
: My plan is shut up AA.
: Since I am not a politician, I don't need to have an alternative plan to
: replace AA.
: But in fact I have thought about higher education and I am willing to share
: with you:
: Education, and in general, the flow of information and knowledge, should be
| | | B******1
发帖数: 9094 | 21 A Jewish kid may come from a legacy family which donated millions of dollars
to a particular school over generations. In return, some universities
might give that particular family some "reward" like accepting most, if not
all kids from that family. Without these donations, a school might not exist
. Whether this practice is fair or not to other students depends on whom
you ask.
You can have the FAIREST university in the world in terms of admission
policies, but you might end up with no capable professors, no decent
facilities, and no applicants.
Managing a university is a complicated task. There might not be a single
solution to solve all the problems. If you change one step, you have to
consider all the related steps years down the road. | D*****e
发帖数: 761 | 22 这个是‘转进’吗？
of
【在 B******1 的大作中提到】
: Race is only one consideration, not ALL the consideration, right?
: Supporters of race-blind admission policies:
: Which race is over-represented in the current makeup of U.S. college
: students: White, Black, or Asian?
: According to your plan, what would be an acceptable, FAIR representation of
: the racial makeup in college?
: In other words, from which race would the Asian wins more seats?
: What could be the benefits of your plan to the nation?
: What could be the downside of your plan to the nation?
| D*****e
发帖数: 761 | 23 所以中国孩子不守待见就是因为他们的父母和祖先的问题对不？
当年那些冤死的以及受尽困苦的华工的确没有对美国做出‘卓绝’的贡献。
另一方面，不管是犹太人还是黑人都以不同方式（金融和做奴隶）对美国做出了了不起
的贡献。
所以中国人活该受欺负。
I'm so sick of this 'logic'.
不过这位总算说了句老实话。This is not fair.
dollars
not
exist
【在 B******1 的大作中提到】
: A Jewish kid may come from a legacy family which donated millions of dollars
: to a particular school over generations. In return, some universities
: might give that particular family some "reward" like accepting most, if not
: all kids from that family. Without these donations, a school might not exist
: . Whether this practice is fair or not to other students depends on whom
: you ask.
: You can have the FAIREST university in the world in terms of admission
: policies, but you might end up with no capable professors, no decent
: facilities, and no applicants.
: Managing a university is a complicated task. There might not be a single
| l********2
发帖数: 200 | 24 世界本来就是不公平的。。。
所以中国孩子不守待见就是因为他们的父母和祖先的问题对不？当年那些冤死的以及受
尽困苦的华工的确没有对美国做出‘卓绝’的贡献。另一方面，不管是犹太人还是黑人
都以不同方式（金融和做奴........
★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs Lite 7.56
【在 D*****e 的大作中提到】
: 所以中国孩子不守待见就是因为他们的父母和祖先的问题对不？
: 当年那些冤死的以及受尽困苦的华工的确没有对美国做出‘卓绝’的贡献。
: 另一方面，不管是犹太人还是黑人都以不同方式（金融和做奴隶）对美国做出了了不起
: 的贡献。
: 所以中国人活该受欺负。
: I'm so sick of this 'logic'.
: 不过这位总算说了句老实话。This is not fair.
:
: dollars
: not
| c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 25
1. a)资源总是有限的,现在的情况是是提高某group是以牺牲我们这个group为代价.这
点不能接受. b)即使AA改为牺牲犹太人的quota,AA仍然不平等.出于理想主义,也不能接
受.
2.请问如果不用quota,AA怎么操作?怎么知道哪个group under了?
即使亚裔学生比例不够高与AA无关,也要反对AA.
【在 m**n 的大作中提到】
: 我的理解:
: 1. AA的目的是帮助"under-represented group", 而不是限制哪个group
: 被over represented. 也就是说犹太人被over-represented与AA无关.
: 2. AA不是引入"quota". 也就是说亚裔学生比例不够高, 原则上与AA也无关.
: 你反对AA, 能不能说明一下我以上两点理解有哪里有问题? 换句话说,
: 你认为亚裔学生比例不够高, 从哪里与AA直接相关? 如果没有这个直接相关性,
: 你废除了AA也不解决问题.
:
: share
: be
| c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 26 I am speaking from the perspective of a parent. Please do not try to put me
in the shoes of the university administration or policy maker.
I will think in their shoes when I become one of them.
But still, AA is unfair.
I thought you want to talk about ideals, now you are back to reality, right?
The reality is, we are fxxked! Why should Asian kids sacrifice for Black
and Hispanish kids? Yes, resource is limited and must be allocated to those
who need and value them most. Who need them and value them most? We Asians!
Why we cannot learn from the Jews to fight back and take was is rightfully
ours? I do not hate Jews. I admire what they have achieved and believe they
already set up an example for us.
dollars
not
exist
【在 B******1 的大作中提到】
: A Jewish kid may come from a legacy family which donated millions of dollars
: to a particular school over generations. In return, some universities
: might give that particular family some "reward" like accepting most, if not
: all kids from that family. Without these donations, a school might not exist
: . Whether this practice is fair or not to other students depends on whom
: you ask.
: You can have the FAIREST university in the world in terms of admission
: policies, but you might end up with no capable professors, no decent
: facilities, and no applicants.
: Managing a university is a complicated task. There might not be a single
| c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 27 so what?
should we not cry out and fight for our rights?
【在 l********2 的大作中提到】
: 世界本来就是不公平的。。。
:
: 所以中国孩子不守待见就是因为他们的父母和祖先的问题对不？当年那些冤死的以及受
: 尽困苦的华工的确没有对美国做出‘卓绝’的贡献。另一方面，不管是犹太人还是黑人
: 都以不同方式（金融和做奴........
: ★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs Lite 7.56
| c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 28
dollars
not
exist
Great! You realize that there is not universal truth about this issue, and
it is about perspective, correct?
Whose perspective are you taking?
I am not a manager of a university. I am a criticizer and I know my job. I
could give a suggestion if they would like to listen: give exam weekly and
soon only qualified people will stay.
【在 B******1 的大作中提到】
: A Jewish kid may come from a legacy family which donated millions of dollars
: to a particular school over generations. In return, some universities
: might give that particular family some "reward" like accepting most, if not
: all kids from that family. Without these donations, a school might not exist
: . Whether this practice is fair or not to other students depends on whom
: you ask.
: You can have the FAIREST university in the world in terms of admission
: policies, but you might end up with no capable professors, no decent
: facilities, and no applicants.
: Managing a university is a complicated task. There might not be a single
| c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 29 Beida101, my dear buddy, I believe there is a mismatch between your identity
and perspective. Do you agree with me?
(Assuming you believe what you are saying, though they are somewhat self
contradicting.) | b*******n
发帖数: 8420 | 30 这就对了
有本事就公然歧视，说支那人就是猪
别打个公平公正的旗号在那里玩阴的
这些白左太伪善了
【在 l********2 的大作中提到】
: 世界本来就是不公平的。。。
:
: 所以中国孩子不守待见就是因为他们的父母和祖先的问题对不？当年那些冤死的以及受
: 尽困苦的华工的确没有对美国做出‘卓绝’的贡献。另一方面，不管是犹太人还是黑人
: 都以不同方式（金融和做奴........
: ★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs Lite 7.56
| | | m***6
发帖数: 8479 | 31 只能说有些人喜欢自贱，喜欢菊花崛起。
2008
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 如果要讲种族，其实最不平衡的是犹太人，美国Jew人口6,489,000 (2.2%) as of 2008
: （US Census Bureau Statistical Abstract 2009, Table 76）
: 但是占大学名额远远不止这个比例，例如NYU
: New York University
: Campus Information
: School Website: New York University
: Address: 50 West 4th Street
: New York, NY 10003
: USA
: Map It
| I*****e
发帖数: 7085 | 32 犹太人当年也被歧视， 但是人家齐心协力斗争
不像华人，自己娃学习好，就说别的华人争取平权不对
【在 m***6 的大作中提到】
: 只能说有些人喜欢自贱，喜欢菊花崛起。
:
: 2008
| j***w
发帖数: 5379 | 33 谁告诉你支持aa就是咬中国人了？aa犹太人也象你一样叫喊着反对吗？你先去把白人至
上的右翼极端分子干掉在来反对aa吧。
2008
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 如果要讲种族，其实最不平衡的是犹太人，美国Jew人口6,489,000 (2.2%) as of 2008
: （US Census Bureau Statistical Abstract 2009, Table 76）
: 但是占大学名额远远不止这个比例，例如NYU
: New York University
: Campus Information
: School Website: New York University
: Address: 50 West 4th Street
: New York, NY 10003
: USA
: Map It
| j***w
发帖数: 5379 | 34 很多人大概不看报，新闻，搞不清状况。反对aa最厉害的就是有种族倾向的极右分子，
跟着上吧，搞完了黑人，拉裔，你以为亚裔会分一杯羹？赶紧醒来吧，团结好所有的少
数民族，才能最终变得公平。' | d********1
发帖数: 82 | 35 看你们讨论得一套一套的，头都看晕了。这个 AA 是不是说了好久了呀？记得两个多月
前我和两个美国朋友说起过这事，话还没说完，老美就说：“This is racism, as
simple as that. No need to discuss. It's wrong to have higher standard
according to the skin." 两个美国朋友都是老师，白人。
有什么好争的，这么简单的事情，怎么自己中国人想不明白呢，唉。 | z****0
发帖数: 3942 | 36 你说的也对，“反对aa最厉害的就是有种族倾向的极右分子”。
AA的初衷是保护少数族裔的权益，可是实际实施的情况是保护了黑人和Hispanic等少数
族裔，但是却以伤害亚裔权利为代价，特别是大学录取和职场平等。难道亚裔不应该站
出来争取自己的平等权利？
【在 j***w 的大作中提到】
: 很多人大概不看报，新闻，搞不清状况。反对aa最厉害的就是有种族倾向的极右分子，
: 跟着上吧，搞完了黑人，拉裔，你以为亚裔会分一杯羹？赶紧醒来吧，团结好所有的少
: 数民族，才能最终变得公平。'
| j*******g
发帖数: 118 | 37 团结好所有的少数民族?? 做你的清秋大梦吧，你想团结人家，人家就团结你了？你献
菊花人家都未必领情。事关民族利益，从来就没有团结，只有斗争，利用和妥协。
【在 j***w 的大作中提到】
: 很多人大概不看报，新闻，搞不清状况。反对aa最厉害的就是有种族倾向的极右分子，
: 跟着上吧，搞完了黑人，拉裔，你以为亚裔会分一杯羹？赶紧醒来吧，团结好所有的少
: 数民族，才能最终变得公平。'
| c***z
发帖数: 6348 | 38 从没有想过搞黑人，老莫什么的，只想有个平等竞争。
我在这件事情上，和极右分子观点一致，有什么问题么？就算在这件事情上，我和魔鬼
观点一致，那又如何？必须是人家赞同的我就反对么？
老美说得对。This is racism, simple as that. | x****o
发帖数: 29677 | 39
这位更搞笑，请问现在亚裔在AA中分到羹了么？
【在 j***w 的大作中提到】
: 很多人大概不看报，新闻，搞不清状况。反对aa最厉害的就是有种族倾向的极右分子，
: 跟着上吧，搞完了黑人，拉裔，你以为亚裔会分一杯羹？赶紧醒来吧，团结好所有的少
: 数民族，才能最终变得公平。'
| p*****d
发帖数: 237 | 40 Agree
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.3
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 从没有想过搞黑人，老莫什么的，只想有个平等竞争。
: 我在这件事情上，和极右分子观点一致，有什么问题么？就算在这件事情上，我和魔鬼
: 观点一致，那又如何？必须是人家赞同的我就反对么？
: 老美说得对。This is racism, simple as that.
| | | i*****k
发帖数: 2576 | 41 了解了。估计当年犹太人争取权利，也有一些自省咬他们自己种族的人。
从另一角度上，犹太人的从前是亚裔的现在。乐观的想亚裔会越来越强大，争取权利也
最终会成功的，只是不知道要多久。
2008
你们为神马不去抗议人家？非要咬自己的种族？
再看看犹太人的历史，在1950年以前，都有限制犹太人比例的法律，经过他们的不懈努
力，终于没有大学敢限制犹太人的比例。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Numerus_clausus_in
看看你们自己，不觉得羞耻么？
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 如果要讲种族，其实最不平衡的是犹太人，美国Jew人口6,489,000 (2.2%) as of 2008
: （US Census Bureau Statistical Abstract 2009, Table 76）
: 但是占大学名额远远不止这个比例，例如NYU
: New York University
: Campus Information
: School Website: New York University
: Address: 50 West 4th Street
: New York, NY 10003
: USA
: Map It
| i*****k
发帖数: 2576 | 42 这就有点强人所难了。就知道很难找到这种证据，即使它存在。
a
【在 B******1 的大作中提到】
: I support AA. Period.
: If you have evidence to prove that one Chinese applicant was rejected and a
: comparable Jewish student was accepted by the same school, print it out.
: Otherwise, just citing these statistics might not offer any insight for or
: slution to the current topic/problem.
: Just one apple vs. apple case would be enough to bring down the house.
: In God we trust. Everyone else? Bring your DATA!
| m**n
发帖数: 9010 | 43
"提高某group是以牺牲我们这个group为代价".
这个未必是事实, 至少, 未必是AA造成的事实. 见下:
不用quota当然可以操作.比如(只是打比方):
保证至少有10%黑人, 10%墨裔, 10%亚裔, 10%其他少数族裔,
剩下60%你们自个儿争去.
反对什么可以, 但至少要把你反对的东西是什么弄清楚.
我对AA的理解, 是AA不使用quota. 如果我理解错了, 请你指出.
如果哪个学校使用quota录取学生, 不能怪到AA头上.
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 从没有想过搞黑人，老莫什么的，只想有个平等竞争。
: 我在这件事情上，和极右分子观点一致，有什么问题么？就算在这件事情上，我和魔鬼
: 观点一致，那又如何？必须是人家赞同的我就反对么？
: 老美说得对。This is racism, simple as that.
| c******r
发帖数: 3778 | 44 先排队支持局长！！！
2008
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 如果要讲种族，其实最不平衡的是犹太人，美国Jew人口6,489,000 (2.2%) as of 2008
: （US Census Bureau Statistical Abstract 2009, Table 76）
: 但是占大学名额远远不止这个比例，例如NYU
: New York University
: Campus Information
: School Website: New York University
: Address: 50 West 4th Street
: New York, NY 10003
: USA
: Map It
| q****i
发帖数: 6923 | 45 再看看犹太人的历史，在1950年以前，都有限制犹太人比例的法律，经过他们的不懈努
力，终于没有大学敢限制犹太人的比例。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Numerus_clausus_in
zan!
2008
【在 c***z 的大作中提到】
: 如果要讲种族，其实最不平衡的是犹太人，美国Jew人口6,489,000 (2.2%) as of 2008
: （US Census Bureau Statistical Abstract 2009, Table 76）
: 但是占大学名额远远不止这个比例，例如NYU
: New York University
: Campus Information
: School Website: New York University
: Address: 50 West 4th Street
: New York, NY 10003
: USA
: Map It
| m**n
发帖数: 9010 | 46 明着说的当然没有. 现在同样没有哪个大学敢明着说
限制亚洲人的比例.
【在 q****i 的大作中提到】
: 再看看犹太人的历史，在1950年以前，都有限制犹太人比例的法律，经过他们的不懈努
: 力，终于没有大学敢限制犹太人的比例。
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Numerus_clausus_in
: zan!
:
: 2008
|
|
