"Since then, both the language and the execution environment have continued
to evolve and improve. C# went from being a slightly better Java to be light
-years ahead. From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into
the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs,
embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics. Many of the
these features came from the research done by Don Syme and his F# team that
have kept a steady flow of new ideas getting injected into the language." http://blog.xamarin.com/2012/05/01/android-in-c-sharp/
m*******l 发帖数: 12782
2
wait and see
continued
light
into
the
that
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : "Since then, both the language and the execution environment have continued : to evolve and improve. C# went from being a slightly better Java to be light : -years ahead. From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into : the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs, : embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics. Many of the : these features came from the research done by Don Syme and his F# team that : have kept a steady flow of new ideas getting injected into the language." : http://blog.xamarin.com/2012/05/01/android-in-c-sharp/
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
3
LOL, you can pull a ton of features into the language. It makes it
bloated, but it doens't necessarily make it better.
You can do asynchrous programming in java. personally I've done a ton
of it. You can't do functional programming but hey, it's an OO language,
if you really want it, you can use Scala and it interoperates with java
fine. There a lot of languages running on JVM that can complement Java
for specific domain. They are not part of java language, and they shouldn't
have to.
continued
light
into
the
that
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : "Since then, both the language and the execution environment have continued : to evolve and improve. C# went from being a slightly better Java to be light : -years ahead. From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into : the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs, : embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics. Many of the : these features came from the research done by Don Syme and his F# team that : have kept a steady flow of new ideas getting injected into the language." : http://blog.xamarin.com/2012/05/01/android-in-c-sharp/
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : LOL, you can pull a ton of features into the language. It makes it : bloated, but it doens't necessarily make it better. : You can do asynchrous programming in java. personally I've done a ton : of it. You can't do functional programming but hey, it's an OO language, : if you really want it, you can use Scala and it interoperates with java : fine. There a lot of languages running on JVM that can complement Java : for specific domain. They are not part of java language, and they shouldn't : have to. : : continued
As I said, you can check Scala, it's way more functional and powerful than C#
if you are talking about syntax. It's useful in certain aspects and projects,
but it has no way to replace Java. And it's not better, it's just different.
Functional programming is not new. If it's going to be mainsteam, it would
have been mainstream for a few decades by now.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : As I said, you can check Scala, it's way more functional and powerful than C# : if you are talking about syntax. It's useful in certain aspects and projects, : but it has no way to replace Java. And it's not better, it's just different. : Functional programming is not new. If it's going to be mainsteam, it would : have been mainstream for a few decades by now.
d***q 发帖数: 1119
19
C#
projects,
different.
I prefer clojure. Scala is a c++ of jvm.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : As I said, you can check Scala, it's way more functional and powerful than C# : if you are talking about syntax. It's useful in certain aspects and projects, : but it has no way to replace Java. And it's not better, it's just different. : Functional programming is not new. If it's going to be mainsteam, it would : have been mainstream for a few decades by now.
所以说这是很有挑战性的工作。c缺乏一些大型开发必要的支持，那么对人的要求就比
较高，
不是简单培训几天，写几个Hello world 搞懂Pointer就行了.
【在 d**********x 的大作中提到】 : 一旦用来开发大型系统，就不是那么简单易懂了
N********n 发帖数: 8363
37
THAT C# GRAPE IS SOUR!!! Right.... What else would you say anyway?
C# has functional language features but offers it as a plus to help
operate on data lists where OO language is traditionally weak. You
don't have to use it but it's nice to have.
it's designed elegantly that the only way one could abuse it is that
he or she intentionally wants to write bad code. If you think that's
滥用 then each of your Java 3rd party support could be 滥用 as well.
C++ OTOH makes bad design an integral part of itself: if you don't
define a copy constructor and assignment operator private you could
burn yourself, and that's bad.
You are just spinning here, like always.
What grape is sour? Java remains the king of enterprise programming.
Job wise, the gap is not narrowed. http://www.indeed.com/jobanalytics/jobtrends?q=java%2C+C%23&l=
In reality, it's hard to switch between OO and functional for
average programmers. Some functional features doesn't make
it better. If it's indeed a feature comparison, you should compare
C# and Scala and C# is very lacking in the offering. The simplicity
of Java has been embraced by open source community and that's
what makes Java better than C# as an ecosystem.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : THAT C# GRAPE IS SOUR!!! Right.... What else would you say anyway? : C# has functional language features but offers it as a plus to help : operate on data lists where OO language is traditionally weak. You : don't have to use it but it's nice to have. : it's designed elegantly that the only way one could abuse it is that : he or she intentionally wants to write bad code. If you think that's : 滥用 then each of your Java 3rd party support could be 滥用 as well. : C++ OTOH makes bad design an integral part of itself: if you don't : define a copy constructor and assignment operator private you could
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
43
That still doesn't make C# any better than Java in this perspective.
Actually how many of you were Java programmers before 2004 to make
this statement?
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Generics is pioneered by ada in 1983. : The implementation of generics in Java is slow and disappoint. : : inner : Java
n*w 发帖数: 3393
44
Java didn't have generics before 2004.
People expressed their disappointment before the generics became official
and tried to influence the creator. However, it was still implemented that
way because of the limitation of jvm.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : That still doesn't make C# any better than Java in this perspective. : Actually how many of you were Java programmers before 2004 to make : this statement?
c****e 发帖数: 1453
45
You are arguing different subjects here. People are talking about the
language rather than its market share. C# gradullay integrated many features
, some are borrowed from funtional lauguage, in a nice way such as
everything is well laied out. I wouldn't just call them "syntax suger".
Otherwise, you can name anything beyond loop/variable/branch syntax suger.
I understand people get their stands based on their own experience. But I
feel you just blindly redirect anything regarding Java to the number of
positions posted. I understand the logic "market share means everything".
But it means very little to a healthy technical discussion. Plus it's less
valuable compared with testimonial from people working with both languages.
BTW, if you put Scala into the chart, C# also gets F#. They are not strictly
comprarable though.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : What grape is sour? Java remains the king of enterprise programming. : Job wise, the gap is not narrowed. : http://www.indeed.com/jobanalytics/jobtrends?q=java%2C+C%23&l= : In reality, it's hard to switch between OO and functional for : average programmers. Some functional features doesn't make : it better. If it's indeed a feature comparison, you should compare : C# and Scala and C# is very lacking in the offering. The simplicity : of Java has been embraced by open source community and that's : what makes Java better than C# as an ecosystem.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
46
Type erasure doesn't make my job more difficult in real life.
It wasn't like Java community are crying loud for current
implementation.
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Java didn't have generics before 2004. : People expressed their disappointment before the generics became official : and tried to influence the creator. However, it was still implemented that : way because of the limitation of jvm.
N*****m 发帖数: 42603
47
Kobe和Java，这两件事不能跟好虫argue.....
lol
features
【在 c****e 的大作中提到】 : You are arguing different subjects here. People are talking about the : language rather than its market share. C# gradullay integrated many features : , some are borrowed from funtional lauguage, in a nice way such as : everything is well laied out. I wouldn't just call them "syntax suger". : Otherwise, you can name anything beyond loop/variable/branch syntax suger. : I understand people get their stands based on their own experience. But I : feel you just blindly redirect anything regarding Java to the number of : positions posted. I understand the logic "market share means everything". : But it means very little to a healthy technical discussion. Plus it's less : valuable compared with testimonial from people working with both languages.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
48
Well, apparently some people are arguing C# is better than Java due to
functional features. But in reality, it's well know functional stle
doesn't blend with OO well for average team. And I show a reference
for a very good Java/Scala expert talking about that. http://blog.goodstuff.im/yes-virginia-scala-is-hard/
Java 5 has been out for more than 7 years. Java 7 has been released.
And closure is still left behind, let alone other functional features.
JSR is a community voting process, unlike C#'s M$ monopoly. Lamda
support has been proposed and prototyped for years.
So it wasn't like the Java community is crying out loud for such features.
And it wasn't like the comminity is held back by the lack of such
features. And as a senior developer who maintains Java and scala code
in daily base, it wasn't like I know nothing about functional coding.
With all due respect to whoever that knows C# and Java well, I value
the opinion of the java community more.
I am all about practical. I believe simplicity overweights features
in the long run. Features can always be built by 3rd party, and picked
up by whoever needs. It's very different when it's part of language.
We can agree to disagree here. But if you want a referee, there's
nothing better than the market.
features
【在 c****e 的大作中提到】 : You are arguing different subjects here. People are talking about the : language rather than its market share. C# gradullay integrated many features : , some are borrowed from funtional lauguage, in a nice way such as : everything is well laied out. I wouldn't just call them "syntax suger". : Otherwise, you can name anything beyond loop/variable/branch syntax suger. : I understand people get their stands based on their own experience. But I : feel you just blindly redirect anything regarding Java to the number of : positions posted. I understand the logic "market share means everything". : But it means very little to a healthy technical discussion. Plus it's less : valuable compared with testimonial from people working with both languages.
n*w 发帖数: 3393
49
The original article lists a few other items too. Not only functional
programming, which is very good to be added to c#.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Well, apparently some people are arguing C# is better than Java due to : functional features. But in reality, it's well know functional stle : doesn't blend with OO well for average team. And I show a reference : for a very good Java/Scala expert talking about that. : http://blog.goodstuff.im/yes-virginia-scala-is-hard/ : Java 5 has been out for more than 7 years. Java 7 has been released. : And closure is still left behind, let alone other functional features. : JSR is a community voting process, unlike C#'s M$ monopoly. Lamda : support has been proposed and prototyped for years. : So it wasn't like the Java community is crying out loud for such features.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
50
Barring functional, there's dynamic programming, asynchronicity,
parrllelism, generics I assume?
You can ask neverlearn about dynamic programming. I've talked about
asynchronicity. And I still think parrellelism should be takend care
by the compiler/VM. If that answers your question.
For generics, Java values back-compatiblity and it has to be done
by type erasure. Is it ideal? No, but enterprise developers hate
more the idea of throwing previous version under the bus approach
of .Net. It's still part of our job to maintain legacy system.
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : The original article lists a few other items too. Not only functional : programming, which is very good to be added to c#.
I think punch card, aka direct bits, wins the language race as it is still
100% market share. Moreover, these other languages can not do anything other
than translate into this.
Maybe that explains Java vs. C#'s market share?
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Well, apparently some people are arguing C# is better than Java due to : functional features. But in reality, it's well know functional stle : doesn't blend with OO well for average team. And I show a reference : for a very good Java/Scala expert talking about that. : http://blog.goodstuff.im/yes-virginia-scala-is-hard/ : Java 5 has been out for more than 7 years. Java 7 has been released. : And closure is still left behind, let alone other functional features. : JSR is a community voting process, unlike C#'s M$ monopoly. Lamda : support has been proposed and prototyped for years. : So it wasn't like the Java community is crying out loud for such features.
k*****a 发帖数: 1463
52
Another thing.... large market share does not mean more $$$, I would rather
work in a niche market for bigger money.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
According to analysts (Evans Data Corp.) the number of Java developers will
outnumber the number of C++ developers by the end of next year. This makes
it sound as if Java programmers would have greater opportunity in the future
(assuming the supply is a function of demand).
An interesting thing I read a couple of months ago, however, said that C++
would still be highly-paid, highly-sought-after skill for at least the next
5 years. C++ developers are the only ones who can maintain C++ programs --
much of the software that exists in most enterprise/corporate situations is
still C++. Given that C++ is a more difficult-to-learn and robust to work
with language than Java, C++ developers -- good, experienced, senior-level,
anyway -- are expected to be worth a great deal more than equitable Java
developers.
What does this mean in a nutshell? Java may get you your foot in the door,
but C++ will likely get you your own door (think corner office with a window
).
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
53
And I present you the salary comparison. http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=C%2B%2B&l1=&q2=java&l2=&q3=C%23
I wouldn't call it a Java victory. But it should be convincing
the salary is comparable. Now there are way more Java jobs, from normal
distribution perspective, if you are really really good, the outliner
is going to be more outliner in comparison. If you are going to lead
a bigger group, with a bigger project, chance is you'll get paid better,
it's not exactly rocket science. http://cboard.cprogramming.com/brief-history-cprogramming-com/6
BTW, using a 2001 quote talking about next 5 years is a complete
failure. You could do better than that.
rather
will
future
next
is
【在 k*****a 的大作中提到】 : Another thing.... large market share does not mean more $$$, I would rather : work in a niche market for bigger money. : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> : According to analysts (Evans Data Corp.) the number of Java developers will : outnumber the number of C++ developers by the end of next year. This makes : it sound as if Java programmers would have greater opportunity in the future : (assuming the supply is a function of demand). : An interesting thing I read a couple of months ago, however, said that C++ : would still be highly-paid, highly-sought-after skill for at least the next : 5 years. C++ developers are the only ones who can maintain C++ programs --
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
54
One of my former colleagues, a Scala enthusiast, turned down
a Typesafe (the company backing Scala) offer and went for a
Netflix position. Exactly the reason I have to maintain Scala
code now. You choose to believe what you believe and I couldn't
care less.
other
【在 k*****a 的大作中提到】 : I think punch card, aka direct bits, wins the language race as it is still : 100% market share. Moreover, these other languages can not do anything other : than translate into this. : Maybe that explains Java vs. C#'s market share?
G***l 发帖数: 355
55
But in reality, it's well know functional stle
doesn't blend with OO well for average team
我不敢苟同这句。C#的functional feature跟OO结合的很好。我不知道什么是average
team。我们这大多是cs本科或者master，3-5年经验，但不一定一直是C#，很多人曾经
是Java， c++等等，functional programming的经验很少。但没有人滥用那些。而用的
地方确实是提高了代码的可读性和维护性。那些functional的东西对传统OO是非常有益
的补充，不是多余的。
我想Java和C#两者都有大量实际项目经验的才能做出有意义的比较。goodbug用过多久C
#？你说Java是个好的语言，这没有人反对。包括我很多两者都有不少经验的人认为C#
更好而已。只是讨论语言本身，不包含marketshare之类的，那是另外的topic。我对语
言没有感情的偏好，这些年Java, C#, C++都写过不少。就我自己写程序的流畅程度和
维护别人的代码理解程序的难度而言，C#确实比Java好。
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Well, apparently some people are arguing C# is better than Java due to : functional features. But in reality, it's well know functional stle : doesn't blend with OO well for average team. And I show a reference : for a very good Java/Scala expert talking about that. : http://blog.goodstuff.im/yes-virginia-scala-is-hard/ : Java 5 has been out for more than 7 years. Java 7 has been released. : And closure is still left behind, let alone other functional features. : JSR is a community voting process, unlike C#'s M$ monopoly. Lamda : support has been proposed and prototyped for years. : So it wasn't like the Java community is crying out loud for such features.
i*****o 发帖数: 1714
56
We all heard that netflix pays really good...
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : One of my former colleagues, a Scala enthusiast, turned down : a Typesafe (the company backing Scala) offer and went for a : Netflix position. Exactly the reason I have to maintain Scala : code now. You choose to believe what you believe and I couldn't : care less. : : other
【在 G***l 的大作中提到】 : But in reality, it's well know functional stle : doesn't blend with OO well for average team : 我不敢苟同这句。C#的functional feature跟OO结合的很好。我不知道什么是average : team。我们这大多是cs本科或者master，3-5年经验，但不一定一直是C#，很多人曾经 : 是Java， c++等等，functional programming的经验很少。但没有人滥用那些。而用的 : 地方确实是提高了代码的可读性和维护性。那些functional的东西对传统OO是非常有益 : 的补充，不是多余的。 : 我想Java和C#两者都有大量实际项目经验的才能做出有意义的比较。goodbug用过多久C : #？你说Java是个好的语言，这没有人反对。包括我很多两者都有不少经验的人认为C# : 更好而已。只是讨论语言本身，不包含marketshare之类的，那是另外的topic。我对语
c**d 发帖数: 579
58
自从sun被收购，越来越多企业转投.net了。
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
59
我老用了一年多的Scala，Scala可比C# functional多了。Scala比Java,C#，
Feature都多多了，你要是Scala写得好，代码也比C#短多了。是不是Scala
就比C# light year ahead?
所以我一直说，加点functional feature可以，个人喜好不同我也不强求，非
说light year ahead纯胡扯。你要说C#是西施，functional加的多一分嫌多，
少一分太少，那就是宗教了。
average
久C
【在 G***l 的大作中提到】 : But in reality, it's well know functional stle : doesn't blend with OO well for average team : 我不敢苟同这句。C#的functional feature跟OO结合的很好。我不知道什么是average : team。我们这大多是cs本科或者master，3-5年经验，但不一定一直是C#，很多人曾经 : 是Java， c++等等，functional programming的经验很少。但没有人滥用那些。而用的 : 地方确实是提高了代码的可读性和维护性。那些functional的东西对传统OO是非常有益 : 的补充，不是多余的。 : 我想Java和C#两者都有大量实际项目经验的才能做出有意义的比较。goodbug用过多久C : #？你说Java是个好的语言，这没有人反对。包括我很多两者都有不少经验的人认为C# : 更好而已。只是讨论语言本身，不包含marketshare之类的，那是另外的topic。我对语
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Scala should compare with f# then.
n*w 发帖数: 3393
64
Yes, it's also a mixed paradigm with stronger oop comparing with F#. but it
doesn't replace Java (programming language) yet.
Let's focus on Java and C# here.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : No, Scala has much better OO support than F#.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
65
As I said, a few trivial features do not make a language better,
let alone light year ahead.
What made Java replacing C++ in many domains in last 15 years?
GC, portablity and the huge bulit-in library. Those are killer
features. In comparison, a few syntax sugar and functional construct
are trivial. If those make you feel better, I am totally fine with that.
But light year ahead, what a joke.
it
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Yes, it's also a mixed paradigm with stronger oop comparing with F#. but it : doesn't replace Java (programming language) yet. : Let's focus on Java and C# here.
n*w 发帖数: 3393
66
"light years" are the words of the creator (?) Of mono. I will just say a
few streets ahead.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : As I said, a few trivial features do not make a language better, : let alone light year ahead. : What made Java replacing C++ in many domains in last 15 years? : GC, portablity and the huge bulit-in library. Those are killer : features. In comparison, a few syntax sugar and functional construct : are trivial. If those make you feel better, I am totally fine with that. : But light year ahead, what a joke. : : it
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
67
Mono, LOL. Mono is a joke. There isn't even an app that's noteworthy.
For a few streets ahead part, as I said, you choose to believe what
you want to believe, and we can agree to disagree here.
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : "light years" are the words of the creator (?) Of mono. I will just say a : few streets ahead.
n*w 发帖数: 3393
68
Let's focus on the technical aspects of the two languages here.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Mono, LOL. Mono is a joke. There isn't even an app that's noteworthy. : For a few streets ahead part, as I said, you choose to believe what : you want to believe, and we can agree to disagree here.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Mono, LOL. Mono is a joke. There isn't even an app that's noteworthy. : For a few streets ahead part, as I said, you choose to believe what : you want to believe, and we can agree to disagree here.
C# is definitely much better than Java, for a JUNIOR engineer only.
I have been developing enterprise application with C# during the last 8
years. The ORM tools that are available in Java for many years almost does
not exist until recently, and still luck of some important feature, e.g.
second level cache.
Of course, it is more convenient to write C#. But enterprise application
development is so different from RAD that this convenience doesn't make a
big deal.
s***o 发帖数: 2191
72
while I agree that .net world didn't pay enough attention to design patterns
and such until recently, nhibernate has been around for many years, and it
does provide 2nd level caching.
【在 x**n 的大作中提到】 : C# is definitely much better than Java, for a JUNIOR engineer only. : I have been developing enterprise application with C# during the last 8 : years. The ORM tools that are available in Java for many years almost does : not exist until recently, and still luck of some important feature, e.g. : second level cache. : Of course, it is more convenient to write C#. But enterprise application : development is so different from RAD that this convenience doesn't make a : big deal.
s***o 发帖数: 2191
73
你们这都转了好几个圈了，晕了。。。
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Mono, LOL. Mono is a joke. There isn't even an app that's noteworthy. : For a few streets ahead part, as I said, you choose to believe what : you want to believe, and we can agree to disagree here.
x**n 发帖数: 461
74
Yes, NHibernate has that for long time, ported from Java. However, the EF,
microsoft's own .net solution, won't provide that until EF5.
And many of .net developers, including most on this board, have never really
spent any time on architecture pattern at all. What they claim is: Yeal, it
is great RAD, the best in the world.
patterns
it
【在 s***o 的大作中提到】 : while I agree that .net world didn't pay enough attention to design patterns : and such until recently, nhibernate has been around for many years, and it : does provide 2nd level caching.
【在 x**n 的大作中提到】 : Yes, NHibernate has that for long time, ported from Java. However, the EF, : microsoft's own .net solution, won't provide that until EF5. : And many of .net developers, including most on this board, have never really : spent any time on architecture pattern at all. What they claim is: Yeal, it : is great RAD, the best in the world. : : patterns : it
y***y 发帖数: 224
76
顶这个~
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : As I said, a few trivial features do not make a language better, : let alone light year ahead. : What made Java replacing C++ in many domains in last 15 years? : GC, portablity and the huge bulit-in library. Those are killer : features. In comparison, a few syntax sugar and functional construct : are trivial. If those make you feel better, I am totally fine with that. : But light year ahead, what a joke. : : it
n*w 发帖数: 3393
77
我倒不认为这些features是 trivial的。
From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into
the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs,
embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics.
觉得java拿了c++一大块的最重要原因（之一）是type safe。
下面这个别人总结的java和c#的不同点包括了一些trivial或不trivial的东西。
Generics are completely different between the two; Java generics are just
a compile-time "trick" (but a useful one at that). In C# and .NET
generics are maintained at execution time too, and work for value types
as well as reference types, keeping the appropriate efficiency (e.g. a
List as a byte[] backing it, rather than an array of boxed bytes.)
C# doesn't have checked exceptions
Java doesn't allow the creation of user-defined value types
Java doesn't have operator and conversion overloading
Java doesn't have iterator blocks for simple implemetation of iterators
Java doesn't have anything like LINQ
Partly due to not having delegates, Java doesn't have anything quite like
anonymous methods and lambda expressions. Anonymous inner classes usually
fill these roles, but clunkily.
Java doesn't have expression trees
C# doesn't have anonymous inner classes
C# doesn't have Java's inner classes at all, in fact - all nested classes
in C# are like Java's static nested classes
Java doesn't have static classes (which don't have any instance
constructors, and can't be used for variables, parameters etc)
Java doesn't have any equivalent to the C# 3.0 anonymous types
Java doesn't have implicitly typed local variables
Java doesn't have extension methods
Java doesn't have object and collection initializer expressions
The access modifiers are somewhat different - in Java there's (currently)
no direct equivalent of an assembly, so no idea of "internal" visibility;
in C# there's no equivalent to the "default" visibility in Java which
takes account of namespace (and inheritance)
The order of initialization in Java and C# is subtly different (C#
executes variable initializers before the chained call to the base type's
constructor)
Java doesn't have an equivalent of the using statement for simplified
try/finally handling of resources
Java doesn't have properties as part of the language; they're a
convention of get/set/is methods
Java doesn't have the equivalent of "unsafe" code
Interop is easier in C# (and .NET in general) than Java's JNI
Java and C# have somewhat different ideas of enums. Java's are much more
object-oriented.
Java has no preprocessor directives (#define, #if etc in C#).
Java has no equivalent of C#'s ref and out for passing parameters by
reference
Java has no equivalent of partial types
C# interfaces cannot declare fields
Java has no unsigned integer types
Java has no language support for a decimal type. (java.math.BigDecimal
provides something like System.Decimal - with differences - but there's
no language support)
Java has no equivalent of nullable value types
Boxing in Java uses predefined (but "normal") reference types with
particular operations on them. Boxing in C# and .NET is a more
transparent affair, with a reference type being created for boxing by the
CLR for any value type.
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : 我倒不认为这些features是 trivial的。 : From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into : the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs, : embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics. : 觉得java拿了c++一大块的最重要原因（之一）是type safe。 : 下面这个别人总结的java和c#的不同点包括了一些trivial或不trivial的东西。 : Generics are completely different between the two; Java generics are just : a compile-time "trick" (but a useful one at that). In C# and .NET : generics are maintained at execution time too, and work for value types : as well as reference types, keeping the appropriate efficiency (e.g. a
In practice, Java builds everything C# builds, and some.
That it runs on Linux is already a winning feature than all the
extra C# features combined. You don't have to believe it, but
C# isn't exactly a favorite language in high profile projects.
And I remember NeverLearn using LSE as a prime example a few
years back. LOL. http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/open-source/3260727/london-
At 8am today, the exchange’s main venue went into live trading with the
Millennium IT matching engine, developed in C++ programming language and
running on SUSE Linux. Weekend work included setting live all gateways from
clients to its network and data centres.
The switchover is being closely watched as the new system will replace the
existing TradElect platform - written in C#, based around Microsoft .Net
architecture on Windows Server and SQL Server, and upgraded by Accenture in
2007 at a cost of ￡40 million. The decision to scrap TradElect was made in
2009, after several high profile outages and as rivals beat the LSE on
messaging latency.
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : 我倒不认为这些features是 trivial的。 : From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into : the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs, : embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics. : 觉得java拿了c++一大块的最重要原因（之一）是type safe。 : 下面这个别人总结的java和c#的不同点包括了一些trivial或不trivial的东西。 : Generics are completely different between the two; Java generics are just : a compile-time "trick" (but a useful one at that). In C# and .NET : generics are maintained at execution time too, and work for value types : as well as reference types, keeping the appropriate efficiency (e.g. a
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : In practice, Java builds everything C# builds, and some. : That it runs on Linux is already a winning feature than all the : extra C# features combined. You don't have to believe it, but : C# isn't exactly a favorite language in high profile projects. : And I remember NeverLearn using LSE as a prime example a few : years back. LOL. : http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/open-source/3260727/london- : At 8am today, the exchange’s main venue went into live trading with the : Millennium IT matching engine, developed in C++ programming language and : running on SUSE Linux. Weekend work included setting live all gateways from
Curiously, is any similar system built on Java?
I think it's a sad story of managed platform. I won't cheer if Java has the
similar story happened on Java (being replaced by a unmanaged platform).
Is the largest website built with .net Dell.com? What's the big site built
with Java?
NYSE, Nasdaq, almost all big financial system use some
mix of Java, C/C++. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/98376/IBM_Builds_Java_Sy
I don't know which site built on Java is biggest. But eBay/linkin are
in Java. Twitter is in some Java/Scala hybrid.
the
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Curiously, is any similar system built on Java? : I think it's a sad story of managed platform. I won't cheer if Java has the : similar story happened on Java (being replaced by a unmanaged platform). : Is the largest website built with .net Dell.com? What's the big site built : with Java?
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
96
If you are a small language that needs a lot help from
open source community. JVM is always the first choice.
CLR will always be a we can do that too story.
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Clr also had ironpython, iron ruby, scalar, closure, .... Etc
n*******e 发帖数: 62
97
听说过ebay.com吧？
the
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Curiously, is any similar system built on Java? : I think it's a sad story of managed platform. I won't cheer if Java has the : similar story happened on Java (being replaced by a unmanaged platform). : Is the largest website built with .net Dell.com? What's the big site built : with Java?
没有这么夸张。4.x秒的exchange根本没法用。从几百微秒降到100出头。
原来的系统多半到了加硬件也不能降latency的处境，才会重写。 http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/10/24/207204/lse-breaks-worl
"The London Stock Exchange has said its new Linux-based system is delivering
world record networking speed, with 126 microsecond trading times. The news
comes ahead a major Linux-based switchover in twelve days, during which the
open source system will replace Microsoft .Net technology on the group's
main stock exchange. The LSE had long been criticised on speed and
reliability, grappling with trading speeds of several hundred microseconds.
The 126 microsecond speed is 'twice as fast' as its main international
competitors, the London Stock Exchange said. BATS Europe and Chi-X, two
dedicated electronic rivals to the LSE, are reported to have an average
latency of 250 and 175 microseconds respectively. Neither company
immediately provided details. But many of the LSE's older and more
traditional rivals offer speeds of around 300 to 400 microseconds.
Nevertheless, Linux is now standard in many exchanges, including the New
York Stock Exchange."
Googled Ebay and Java, a link of theserverside.com with title of "why most
large scale Web sites are not written in Java" said Ebay is not built in
Java.
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Googled Ebay and Java, a link of theserverside.com with title of "why most : large scale Web sites are not written in Java" said Ebay is not built in : Java.
n*w 发帖数: 3393
106
The thing is, comparing with Java, c# departs further from php.
I googled "Ebay built Java".
The follow link returned in the first page
www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id= 47135
I think Ebay uses Java after read more resources, at least part of it.
You seriously need to learn to read.
theserverside.com post mentions a blog, and that blog ultimately
uses the informatino from highscalability.com. And guess where
I gave you the ebay architecture description?
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : I googled "Ebay built Java". : The follow link returned in the first page : www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id= 47135 : I think Ebay uses Java after read more resources, at least part of it.
n*w 发帖数: 3393
110
I just browsed the first paragraph. Maybe someone corrected the op. just
want a quick idea. Glad to know Java was adopted in Ebay at that time.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : You seriously need to learn to read. : theserverside.com post mentions a blog, and that blog ultimately : uses the informatino from highscalability.com. And guess where : I gave you the ebay architecture description?
Linkedin also uses a lot of Java (and JVM based languages like Scala) in its
backend. see its architect's presentation here: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Data-Infrastructure-LinkedIn
Abstract: Sid Anand presents the architecture set in place at LinkedIn and
the data infrastructure running Java and Scala apps on top of Oracle,
Voldemort, DataBus and Kafka.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : You seriously need to learn to read. : theserverside.com post mentions a blog, and that blog ultimately : uses the informatino from highscalability.com. And guess where : I gave you the ebay architecture description?
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Clr also had ironpython, iron ruby, scalar, closure, .... Etc
n*w 发帖数: 3393
114
Yes, some people were scared because Microsoft controls clr and c#. However
Microsoft submitted the c# standard and oracle is not better than the old
Microsoft. Not sure if Microsoft wants to see the Popular third party clr
implementations. At the early stage, Microsoft helped the development of
mono.
anyway, clr/c# are keeping evolving while there is very little thing
happening on jvm/Java. Java 8 may add some functional constructs, using the
same syntax of c#.
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Yes, some people were scared because Microsoft controls clr and c#. However : Microsoft submitted the c# standard and oracle is not better than the old : Microsoft. Not sure if Microsoft wants to see the Popular third party clr : implementations. At the early stage, Microsoft helped the development of : mono. : anyway, clr/c# are keeping evolving while there is very little thing : happening on jvm/Java. Java 8 may add some functional constructs, using the : same syntax of c#.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
116
You don't get it. Oracle has the copyright of Java, but it doesn't
control Java. JCP does. All big Java players have something to say
in what to include and what not to include in Java. That's why it's
slow to get new features, but it's also the reason it has great
back-compatiblity. And enterprise market values the latter more.
Many large scale back-end system has the life expectancy of 10-30
years. And it's a nightmare when single vendor dictates everything.
However
the
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Yes, some people were scared because Microsoft controls clr and c#. However : Microsoft submitted the c# standard and oracle is not better than the old : Microsoft. Not sure if Microsoft wants to see the Popular third party clr : implementations. At the early stage, Microsoft helped the development of : mono. : anyway, clr/c# are keeping evolving while there is very little thing : happening on jvm/Java. Java 8 may add some functional constructs, using the : same syntax of c#.
c****e 发帖数: 1453
117
Latency used to be a issue in Windows Server 2003 therefore the network
stack has a major overhaul in Vista.Now I don't think now Windows Server is
inferior on network latency from bottom up compared with Linux. Many high
frequency trading companies use .Net to build their system nowadays.
Trading companies are clients, they focus on trading algorithms.
They could make thousands of trades per day, not billions.
That's like saying my browser shows google search result quickly
so building google on PC is fine.
is
【在 c****e 的大作中提到】 : Latency used to be a issue in Windows Server 2003 therefore the network : stack has a major overhaul in Vista.Now I don't think now Windows Server is : inferior on network latency from bottom up compared with Linux. Many high : frequency trading companies use .Net to build their system nowadays.
No, they focus on speed a lot. And they race on speed to get money, of
course the speed game is not only the software stack, but also hardware,
even the location you host your machine. If you got a friend in this
industry, ask them.
Building "Google" on Windows indeed is fine. Bing is built on Windows, which got billions requests per day. How
about its latency?
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Trading companies are clients, they focus on trading algorithms. : They could make thousands of trades per day, not billions. : That's like saying my browser shows google search result quickly : so building google on PC is fine. : : is
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : You don't get it. Oracle has the copyright of Java, but it doesn't : control Java. JCP does. All big Java players have something to say : in what to include and what not to include in Java. That's why it's : slow to get new features, but it's also the reason it has great : back-compatiblity. And enterprise market values the latter more. : Many large scale back-end system has the life expectancy of 10-30 : years. And it's a nightmare when single vendor dictates everything. : : However : the
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
125
I was using browser and google search to illustrate client/server
relationship. A market maker can be big but it's still a client to
the stock exchange system.
Even if some big market maker does a lot of trades, let's say 10% of total
trades, it's still one magnitude lower than the stock exchange system itself.
And latency has everything to do with volume. The degree of difficulty in
architecture is on different levels. And I don't know any big market maker
using C# as the main language on their bread and butter platform, otherwise
M$ would have let us know.
which got billions requests per day. How
【在 c****e 的大作中提到】 : No, they focus on speed a lot. And they race on speed to get money, of : course the speed game is not only the software stack, but also hardware, : even the location you host your machine. If you got a friend in this : industry, ask them. : Building "Google" on Windows indeed is fine. Bing is built on Windows, which got billions requests per day. How : about its latency?
n*w 发帖数: 3393
126
下面这段是别人写于2009年的，其中“"a language that's run by a corporation
rather than a community" is actually more of an issue with Java than it is C
#;”这句现在还适用吗？
"
There's nothing "sudden" about the popularity of C#, it's been quite popular
since its birth at the turn of the century.
Also, I don't understand how you can consider C# to be a step backwards from
Java; if anything, C# is several steps ahead of Java. The cross-platform "
issue" you mention is only an issue of politics and not one of technical
capabilities; Microsoft (erroneously, IMO, but that's neither here nor there
) sees no value in doing the work of bringing the .NET platform to non-MS
platforms. The other issue... "a language that's run by a corporation rather
than a community" is actually more of an issue with Java than it is C#; Sun
still controls Java with an iron fist, despite IBM's continual pleas. Edit:
Not anymore. Now IBM has to beg Oracle to modify Java...
So, to the actual question, why is C# popular?
Because:
It really is a great platform for programming. There are numerous
improvements over Java, such as:
Value Types
Properties
Delegates and Events
Global Assembly Cache
Runtime Generic Support
It's constantly evolving, both in terms of library support and new language
features. For example:
LINQ (it will change the way you iterate a collection!)
Lambda Expressions
WCF
WPF
Closures
And coming up in C# 4:
Dynamic types and the DLR (i.e. runtime type binding, like python)
Named and Optional arguments
Covariance and Contravariance
"
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
127
Java has been out for 18 years, 7 major versions. Barring some
trivial syntax sugars, the only major additions in the language were
generics
and annotation in Java 5. It's safe to say the language will be fine
for next 10 years without a single change.
What matters most is the library, and the community will continue to build
on it. With or without new features. In the last decade, it wasn't new
language
features that make Java more productive, but the innovation of frameworks
like Strusts, Spring, hibernate. None of those were created by Sun/Oracle.
Libraries do the heavy lifting, language features are really trivial in
comparison.
C
popular
from
there
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : 下面这段是别人写于2009年的，其中“"a language that's run by a corporation : rather than a community" is actually more of an issue with Java than it is C : #;”这句现在还适用吗？ : " : There's nothing "sudden" about the popularity of C#, it's been quite popular : since its birth at the turn of the century. : Also, I don't understand how you can consider C# to be a step backwards from : Java; if anything, C# is several steps ahead of Java. The cross-platform " : issue" you mention is only an issue of politics and not one of technical : capabilities; Microsoft (erroneously, IMO, but that's neither here nor there
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Java has been out for 18 years, 7 major versions. Barring some : trivial syntax sugars, the only major additions in the language were : generics : and annotation in Java 5. It's safe to say the language will be fine : for next 10 years without a single change. : What matters most is the library, and the community will continue to build : on it. With or without new features. In the last decade, it wasn't new : language : features that make Java more productive, but the innovation of frameworks : like Strusts, Spring, hibernate. None of those were created by Sun/Oracle.
G***l 发帖数: 355
130
It's safe to say the language will be fine
你这句话就太绝对了。你主观喜欢Java，或者客观觉得Java好，没人会有意见。我个人
觉得Java也是最好的之一。但IT新技术变化那么快，你永远不知道10年会有多大变化。
。C++时间比Java更久了，committee那帮人比Java的还懒，虽说现在总的使用率比Java
低点，但也是最popular的语言之一。按道理说更不需要变化，但人家在C++11里还是加
了很多东西，而且获得一片叫好。包括像lambda expression，还有foreach loop，
auto这些可以说是语法糖的东西。
【在 G***l 的大作中提到】 : It's safe to say the language will be fine : 你这句话就太绝对了。你主观喜欢Java，或者客观觉得Java好，没人会有意见。我个人 : 觉得Java也是最好的之一。但IT新技术变化那么快，你永远不知道10年会有多大变化。 : 。C++时间比Java更久了，committee那帮人比Java的还懒，虽说现在总的使用率比Java : 低点，但也是最popular的语言之一。按道理说更不需要变化，但人家在C++11里还是加 : 了很多东西，而且获得一片叫好。包括像lambda expression，还有foreach loop， : auto这些可以说是语法糖的东西。
【在 G***l 的大作中提到】 : It's safe to say the language will be fine : 你这句话就太绝对了。你主观喜欢Java，或者客观觉得Java好，没人会有意见。我个人 : 觉得Java也是最好的之一。但IT新技术变化那么快，你永远不知道10年会有多大变化。 : 。C++时间比Java更久了，committee那帮人比Java的还懒，虽说现在总的使用率比Java : 低点，但也是最popular的语言之一。按道理说更不需要变化，但人家在C++11里还是加 : 了很多东西，而且获得一片叫好。包括像lambda expression，还有foreach loop， : auto这些可以说是语法糖的东西。
n*w 发帖数: 3393
134
我在期待Java 8的lambda expressions。 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history#Java_SE_8
Java 8 is expected in summer 2013[76] and will include at a minimum the
features that were planned for Java 7 but later deferred.
Modularization of the JDK under Project Jigsaw[83][84]
Language-level support for lambda expressions (officially, lambda
expressions; unofficially, closures) under Project Lambda.[85] There was an
ongoing debate in the Java community on whether to add support for lambda
expressions.[86][87] Sun later declared that lambda expressions would be
included in Java and asked for community input to refine the feature.[88]
Parts of project Coin that are not included in Java 7
Tight integration with JavaFX [89]
You just knew the LSE spin would pop up, ain't you? So what happened
after LSE switched to the so-called "better" Linux platform then?
Well a major CRASH that halt trade. http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/mapping-babel-10017967/lses-linux-
Notice how every .Net basher conveniently left that part of story out
of the discussion, which does not surprise me at all.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
137
Can you read at all? The new system resolves the latency issue from
first day. So it's there to stay. It may have some glitches, and
all systems have, but none of them was as bad as 8 hours halt happened
in the previous system. That Linux winning on both counts.
BTW, LSE isn't the biggest exchange in the world. You can always look
up NYSE for successful story. The problem with .net camp is that it has
none there.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : You just knew the LSE spin would pop up, ain't you? So what happened : after LSE switched to the so-called "better" Linux platform then? : Well a major CRASH that halt trade. : http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/mapping-babel-10017967/lses-linux- : Notice how every .Net basher conveniently left that part of story out : of the discussion, which does not surprise me at all.
Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows.
What's the next FUD?
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Can you read at all? The new system resolves the latency issue from : first day. So it's there to stay. It may have some glitches, and : all systems have, but none of them was as bad as 8 hours halt happened : in the previous system. That Linux winning on both counts. : BTW, LSE isn't the biggest exchange in the world. You can always look : up NYSE for successful story. The problem with .net camp is that it has : none there.
x**n 发帖数: 461
140
大家都觉得C#有很多新feature，而JAVA没有，跟我的感觉差不少。C#
的以下feature我都在用：
LINQ
Lambda Expressions
WCF
WPF
Closures
Dynamic types and the DLR
Named and Optional arguments
Covariance and Contravariance
Task
事实上可以把他们都当作扩展库，除了Dynamic是真正新东西，而且最终Dynamic从我们
的code中消失了。
但是我最想用的AOP在.NET上基本就是靠attribute了，想weaver只能靠做梦，即使有
weaver也是动态的，没有象Java那样有一堆的静态weaver。首先作为一个坚定的POCO支
持者，为了AOP而用attribute是不可理喻的。其次，动态weaver的performance
penalty有多大还不知道，如果实在不行恐怕最后还是只能回到原始的OO的路上了。
Amazon 用的全是Java。另外，微软的一些product也是用的Java。
其实，这两个都是C++加上Garbage Collection, they are basically same thing.
The difference is subtle at the level of language. The real difference is
the platform: CLR vs JVM.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
142
That's not funny. https://lwn.net/Articles/411064/
NASDAQ OMX's exchanges run on thousands of Linux-based servers. These
servers handle realtime transaction processing, monitoring, and development
as well. The big challenge in this environment, of course, is performance;
real money depends on whether the exchange can keep up with the order stream
. Latency matters as much as throughput, though; orders must be responded to
(and executed) within bounded period of time. Needless to say, reliability
is also crucially important; down time is not well received, to say the
least.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows. : What's the next FUD?
N********n 发帖数: 8363
143
Funny isn't it Nasdaq has been using MSFT Sql Server as the mission
critical platform since way back in 2006 and you are still in denial? http://blog.sqlauthority.com/2007/09/17/sqlauthority-news-nasda
You wanna see some job posts from Nasdaq? http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?ipa
"The NASDAQ OMX Group is the world's largest exchange company and
recognized leader among floorless exchanges....
Required Skills & Abilities:
. must possess extensive experience in Microsoft SQL Server
administration.
. 5+ years Microsoft SQL Server DBA experience in a production
environment..."
LOL. Nice try.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : That's not funny. : https://lwn.net/Articles/411064/ : NASDAQ OMX's exchanges run on thousands of Linux-based servers. These : servers handle realtime transaction processing, monitoring, and development : as well. The big challenge in this environment, of course, is performance; : real money depends on whether the exchange can keep up with the order stream : . Latency matters as much as throughput, though; orders must be responded to : (and executed) within bounded period of time. Needless to say, reliability : is also crucially important; down time is not well received, to say the : least.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
144
LOL. M$ is very creative in marketing progangda and I was expecting
you have enough IQ to read the fine print. This is the official
case study from M$. http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/Case_Study_Detail.aspx?Cas
it deployed Microsoft? SQL Server? 2005 on two 4-node clusters to support
its Market Data Dissemination System (MDDS). Every trade that is processed
in the NASDAQ marketplace goes through the MDDS system, with SQL Server 2005
handling some 5,000 transactions per second at market open. SQL Server 2005
simultaneously handles about 100,000 queries a day,
Obviously you don't have any experience in high scalability system.
Two 4 node clusters, 5,000 transaction/s, 100,000 queries/day. LOL.
Even our production environment is easily 10 times bigger than that.
This is MDDS that performs a trivial task, not stock exchange system.
But you can't tell.
Of course M$ stack is capable on small and midrange projects that doesn't
have high requirement on latency. And most M$ shops live on that. I am
not surprised they need some DBA on MS SQL server.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : Funny isn't it Nasdaq has been using MSFT Sql Server as the mission : critical platform since way back in 2006 and you are still in denial? : http://blog.sqlauthority.com/2007/09/17/sqlauthority-news-nasda : You wanna see some job posts from Nasdaq? : http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?ipa : "The NASDAQ OMX Group is the world's largest exchange company and : recognized leader among floorless exchanges.... : Required Skills & Abilities: : . must possess extensive experience in Microsoft SQL Server
N********n 发帖数: 8363
145
In your own linux propaganda article from lwn.net/Articles/411064/
it claims to run "thousands machines" to achieve "up to a million
tranctions per second".
I'm gonna give you a break here, let's say it's just 2000 machines.
1M / 2000 = 500 transactions per second. The 8 sql server nodes OTOH
achieve 5000 / second, and that's 5000 / 8 = 600+ each.
So answer me please which is greater here: 600+ or 500? Are you sure
you have enough IQ to decide? How about a calculator? LOL
You are hilarious. MSFT 2005 solution beats your 2010 Linux suckers
by an easy 20% and you have the never to trash SQL Server?
As for "high scalability" laughing stock you brag about, why don't you
sell it to Nasdaq or some financial firms and see how soon they toss
it away. High scalability, give me a break.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : LOL. M$ is very creative in marketing progangda and I was expecting : you have enough IQ to read the fine print. This is the official : case study from M$. : http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/Case_Study_Detail.aspx?Cas : it deployed Microsoft? SQL Server? 2005 on two 4-node clusters to support : its Market Data Dissemination System (MDDS). Every trade that is processed : in the NASDAQ marketplace goes through the MDDS system, with SQL Server 2005 : handling some 5,000 transactions per second at market open. SQL Server 2005 : simultaneously handles about 100,000 queries a day, : Obviously you don't have any experience in high scalability system.
s*****n 发帖数: 5488
146
你老是java高手，不是社会学高手。
从社会学变化来说，编程语言是winner take all的game.
现在C#即使领先java一米。10年后领先三四个光年小意思。20年大家都忘了what is
java.
公平讲，如果不是C#不是windows上baby.现在谁还会用java?
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : 我老用了一年多的Scala，Scala可比C# functional多了。Scala比Java,C#， : Feature都多多了，你要是Scala写得好，代码也比C#短多了。是不是Scala : 就比C# light year ahead? : 所以我一直说，加点functional feature可以，个人喜好不同我也不强求，非 : 说light year ahead纯胡扯。你要说C#是西施，functional加的多一分嫌多， : 少一分太少，那就是宗教了。 : : average : 久C
s*****n 发帖数: 5488
147
新的exchange data center讲完全构筑于c#上。这可比网站复杂好几（十？）倍。
the
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Curiously, is any similar system built on Java? : I think it's a sad story of managed platform. I won't cheer if Java has the : similar story happened on Java (being replaced by a unmanaged platform). : Is the largest website built with .net Dell.com? What's the big site built : with Java?
Microsoft gains much momentum from cloud computing. Windows Server 8 will be
a big hit on backend. The virtualization solution would give VMWare a
really hard time. Even now people starts to use Hyper-V to host Linux farm.
From my perspective, Windows Server is the most envolving product from
Microsoft.
You are wrong. And you've been wrong every time. But this?
You thought Nasdaq was running on 2 4nodes MS SQL server and that's deadly
wrong. And you have no experience on scalability whatsoever and you are
talking like scaling something to 1m transactions/s is as simple as 5000/s
as long as you have 200 more times hardware there. You don't know how the
hardware compares. You don't know the latency requirement, you don't know
the redundancy requirement. But you compare nonetheless just because you
want to save some face.
LOL, you are talking like replicating data through 8 nodes with low latency
is as easy as replicating on 2000 nodes. You don't have adequate knowledge
to how to achieve this at all. Give yourself a break.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : In your own linux propaganda article from lwn.net/Articles/411064/ : it claims to run "thousands machines" to achieve "up to a million : tranctions per second". : I'm gonna give you a break here, let's say it's just 2000 machines. : 1M / 2000 = 500 transactions per second. The 8 sql server nodes OTOH : achieve 5000 / second, and that's 5000 / 8 = 600+ each. : So answer me please which is greater here: 600+ or 500? Are you sure : you have enough IQ to decide? How about a calculator? LOL : You are hilarious. MSFT 2005 solution beats your 2010 Linux suckers
【在 s*****n 的大作中提到】 : 你老是java高手，不是社会学高手。 : 从社会学变化来说，编程语言是winner take all的game. : 现在C#即使领先java一米。10年后领先三四个光年小意思。20年大家都忘了what is : java. : 公平讲，如果不是C#不是windows上baby.现在谁还会用java?
n*w 发帖数: 3393
155
Don't agree the first sentence.
Scala is not Java.
Agree the importance of library. But the original speaker was comparing the
languages of Java and c#.
I am using Scala to illustrate the marginal importance of language
featues. Scala also runs on JVM, tons of more features than Java and
C# combined, it can use all existing Java libraries too. Basically
a language with more features and no C# limitation aforementioned.
Still people don't move to it and don't see it replacing Java. What
makes C# features so special?
the
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Don't agree the first sentence. : Scala is not Java. : Agree the importance of library. But the original speaker was comparing the : languages of Java and c#.
D*******a 发帖数: 3688
157
what's your opinion about groovy?
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : I am using Scala to illustrate the marginal importance of language : featues. Scala also runs on JVM, tons of more features than Java and : C# combined, it can use all existing Java libraries too. Basically : a language with more features and no C# limitation aforementioned. : Still people don't move to it and don't see it replacing Java. What : makes C# features so special? : : the
n*w 发帖数: 3393
158
A lot of time Only Java/c# is allowed in projects. maybe the project manager
limits it for maintenance reason.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : I am using Scala to illustrate the marginal importance of language : featues. Scala also runs on JVM, tons of more features than Java and : C# combined, it can use all existing Java libraries too. Basically : a language with more features and no C# limitation aforementioned. : Still people don't move to it and don't see it replacing Java. What : makes C# features so special? : : the
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : I think JVM's performance is only slightly better than CLR : in most benchmarks. However, JVM runs on Linux too, that's a : big plus.
This is from the creator of groovy. I think groovy will continue to be
used in domains like web development. But that's about it. http://macstrac.blogspot.com/2009/04/scala-as-long-term-replace
[quote]
Though my tip though for the long term replacement of javac is Scala. I'm
very impressed with it! I can honestly say if someone had shown me the
Programming in Scala book by by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill Venners
back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy.[quote]
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】 : what's your opinion about groovy?
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
165
Let's not go back to mono again. Mono is not .net. C# without .net
is useless.
【在 j*a 的大作中提到】 : mono能跑一点点的c#
n*w 发帖数: 3393
166
"
Mono is a free and open source project led by Xamarin (formerly by Novell
and originally by Ximian) to create an Ecma standard compliant .NET
Framework-compatible set of tools including, among others, a C# compiler and
a Common Language Runtime.
"
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Let's not go back to mono again. Mono is not .net. C# without .net : is useless.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
167
Show me some non-trival commercial mono app and we can talk.
This is beating dead horse
and
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : " : Mono is a free and open source project led by Xamarin (formerly by Novell : and originally by Ximian) to create an Ecma standard compliant .NET : Framework-compatible set of tools including, among others, a C# compiler and : a Common Language Runtime. : "
n*w 发帖数: 3393
168
Oh my goodness.
Define non trivial
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : Show me some non-trival commercial mono app and we can talk. : This is beating dead horse : : and
n*w 发帖数: 3393
169
I posted the mono definition because you said mono is not .net
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Oh my goodness. : Define non trivial
c****e 发帖数: 1453
170
"十几年前偶们在linux和
Maybe at that time, old Linux network stack didn't support multiple threads
well. For now, I don't think either of them is significantly faster than the
other one. Lots of factors can change the perception of speed.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : NeverLearn in 2008: SilverLight will rule them all : Goodbug in 2008: LOL : Goodbug in 2012: LOL : Random guy in 2010: Java is a dead-end : Good in 2012: LOL
N********n 发帖数: 8363
177
So in other words your "fabulous" community products are too lame to
divide and conquer a task, too inadequate adopt a share nothing scheme,
too insufficient to scale both up and out that you end up w/ thousands
machines bundling together to bring each other down?
Every time you "community" big mouths talk about high scalability the
pros laugh. These financial firms demand mission critical HA / DR / BI
solutions having to be backed up by promise to compensate for the loss
should any failures happen.
When that game is on the line it's platforms such as Sql Server that
can meet the challenge. Your "community" Mysql kinda stuff is no where
to be found other than those social websites where no one gives a damn
if you lose a few messages from time to time.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : NeverLearn in 2008: SilverLight will rule them all : Goodbug in 2008: LOL : Goodbug in 2012: LOL : Random guy in 2010: Java is a dead-end : Good in 2012: LOL
N********n 发帖数: 8363
178
SilverLight has become the UI framework powering from Windows Phone to
Windows 8 Metro. It's no longer future. It's NOW, as I predicted.
You OTOH claimed that somehow JS-based web thin client is the future
while I've been calling JS-based solutions BS from day one.
Over the years we have had Google (once biggest JS apologist) leaving
for DART, PALM embracing H5/JS as the platform only to go straight to
bankruptcy and then HP wasting 1B to revive this dead horse only to no
avail and later admitting H5/JS is BS (exactly what I've been saying).
Whoever dumb enough to go the route you suggested have either given up
or failed sadly.
Morale behind the story: I tell truth. You hand out misleading BS.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : NeverLearn in 2008: SilverLight will rule them all : Goodbug in 2008: LOL : Goodbug in 2012: LOL : Random guy in 2010: Java is a dead-end : Good in 2012: LOL
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : SilverLight has become the UI framework powering from Windows Phone to : Windows 8 Metro. It's no longer future. It's NOW, as I predicted. : You OTOH claimed that somehow JS-based web thin client is the future : while I've been calling JS-based solutions BS from day one. : Over the years we have had Google (once biggest JS apologist) leaving : for DART, PALM embracing H5/JS as the platform only to go straight to : bankruptcy and then HP wasting 1B to revive this dead horse only to no : avail and later admitting H5/JS is BS (exactly what I've been saying). : Whoever dumb enough to go the route you suggested have either given up
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
185
There's still something called Oracle and DB2 that can run on
Linux server. And mission critical projects and M$ products
shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : SilverLight has become the UI framework powering from Windows Phone to : Windows 8 Metro. It's no longer future. It's NOW, as I predicted. : You OTOH claimed that somehow JS-based web thin client is the future : while I've been calling JS-based solutions BS from day one. : Over the years we have had Google (once biggest JS apologist) leaving : for DART, PALM embracing H5/JS as the platform only to go straight to : bankruptcy and then HP wasting 1B to revive this dead horse only to no : avail and later admitting H5/JS is BS (exactly what I've been saying). : Whoever dumb enough to go the route you suggested have either given up
N********n 发帖数: 8363
186
在 goodbug (好虫) 的大作中提到: 】
So you trash JS on the Java board and then make 180 turn to root for
it here. You are a flip-flop on steroid, and you wanna talk about
"做人也要有点底线"? What 底线? Let's find out.
You first blamed LSE on MSFT. After I showed that LSE immediately
crashed after switching to Linux you started spin, "oh it's not a
hard crash, this and that, blah blah blah..."
Then you claimed NY has a bigger game that MSFT cannot handle. After
I showed that NASDAQ is actively using Sql Server to power its system
you started to spin again.
You then made the dumbest claim of all that thousands Linux servers
scaling it better than Sql Servers w/o knowing how modern commercial
DBs like Sql Servers help not only scale it up but also out to share
nothing and thus achieve mass parallelism so you would not have to
have thousands servers messing each other in the first place.
All you do is spin, spin, spin, and I smashed it with fact every time.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
187
I bashed JS the language. But I've been calling JS to stay in web
programming all the time. It's all about practical. There're hundreds of
posts
in history to check. You shameless liar.
It's not a spin, LSE dumped windows because it never met their latency
requirement. And it cannot be fixed. Linux did, on the first day. Crash
as bad as it is, is a fixable issue.
You call NASDAQ stock exchange using SQL server. and no, that's not
stock exchange, that's a small system handling 5K transaction/s at peak.
Another lie.
You have no clue on how scalability works at all. Those thousands of Linux
servers ain't DB servers to begin with. You can't even compare them to MS
SQL server. And SQL Servers can't achieve linear scalability. Scaling
something
200 times bigger is a much more complex task, and it's only about putting up
200 times more hardware in your opinion. That's just pure ignorance. You don
't
have any real experience in high scaliblity system and every time you copied
a post off internet, you got your ass spanked.
I think you've showed off your idiocy enough on this board and becomes a
running joke. Give yourself a break.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : 在 goodbug (好虫) 的大作中提到: 】 : So you trash JS on the Java board and then make 180 turn to root for : it here. You are a flip-flop on steroid, and you wanna talk about : "做人也要有点底线"? What 底线? Let's find out. : You first blamed LSE on MSFT. After I showed that LSE immediately : crashed after switching to Linux you started spin, "oh it's not a : hard crash, this and that, blah blah blah..." : Then you claimed NY has a bigger game that MSFT cannot handle. After : I showed that NASDAQ is actively using Sql Server to power its system : you started to spin again.
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : "Since then, both the language and the execution environment have continued : to evolve and improve. C# went from being a slightly better Java to be light : -years ahead. From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into : the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs, : embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics. Many of the : these features came from the research done by Don Syme and his F# team that : have kept a steady flow of new ideas getting injected into the language." : http://blog.xamarin.com/2012/05/01/android-in-c-sharp/
N********n 发帖数: 8363
190
On Java board you first claimed JS to be "lousy" so Google designed
GWT to avoid having to write JS. Then in this thread you claimed JS
having nice support such as jQuery. Here's a problem as jQuery is a
framework that encourages people to write JS.
So you are saying it's great now that you don't have to code JS and
it's also great now you can code JS. Either you have no clue or just
wanna talk from both sides your mouth like a snake oil salesman.
Spin and fail.
You don't know jack how trading firms setup a system. DB is front &
center as that's where the BI analysis have to come from. DB such as
Sql Server is the brain at the driver seat leaving those "thousands"
Linux non-DB servers as role players for maybe queues, cache, storage
or whatnot secondary less complex work flow meaning even less excuses
not to scale it up.
Spin and fail.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : : I bashed JS the language. But I've been calling JS to stay in web : programming all the time. It's all about practical. There're hundreds of : posts : in history to check. You shameless liar. : It's not a spin, LSE dumped windows because it never met their latency : requirement. And it cannot be fixed. Linux did, on the first day. Crash : as bad as it is, is a fixable issue. : You call NASDAQ stock exchange using SQL server. and no, that's not : stock exchange, that's a small system handling 5K transaction/s at peak.
this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT
continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense
thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time
to answer some real questions in the bbs.
n*******e 发帖数: 62
192
DONOT
【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】 : this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT : continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense : thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time : to answer some real questions in the bbs.
n*******e 发帖数: 62
193
this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT
continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense
thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time
to answer some real questions in the bbs.
n*******e 发帖数: 62
194
DONOT
【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】 : this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT : continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense : thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time : to answer some real questions in the bbs.
n*w 发帖数: 3393
195
Come on baby.
the original author has a good summery on the good feature s which c#has but
Java doesn't. It can be a good technical discussion the feature sets and
the evolution of these two major managed language s. I don't get it why you
guys get so mad.
DONOT
【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】 : this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT : continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense : thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time : to answer some real questions in the bbs.
【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】 : this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT : continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense : thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time : to answer some real questions in the bbs.
n*******e 发帖数: 62
197
this topic is totally nonsense. Don't waste your time here, instead answer
some real question in the bbs.
n*w 发帖数: 3393
198
Ok, let's discuss the follow topic.
Do you think if it make sense to have dynamic language feature in Java/c#?
【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】 : this topic is totally nonsense. Don't waste your time here, instead answer : some real question in the bbs.
n*******e 发帖数: 62
199
this topic is totally nonsense. Don't waste your time here, instead answer
n*w 发帖数: 3393
200
Microsoft gave one example, the com integration. Any other reason you can
think of?
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Ok, let's discuss the follow topic. : Do you think if it make sense to have dynamic language feature in Java/c#?
Another usage of dynamic I can think of is to inter op better with objects
provided by the dynamic languages like ironpython. How Java uses the objects
of jpython? Not possible at all or in a awkward way?
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Microsoft gave one example, the com integration. Any other reason you can : think of?
n*******e 发帖数: 62
202
this topic is totally nonsense. Don't waste your time here, instead answer
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
203
It has always been my standpoint. JS is here to stay since it's the
only scripting language supported in all browsers. But it's a lousy
language also. That's why components vendors will write these ajax
components that work across browser and others can just use them
and minimize js codes. I've predicted that years ago and it's happening.
To summarize, you need to use JS since that's the only way in web
programming, but you don't have to write that much of them. Or you
don't have to write them at all in some frameworks like vaadin. Basically
I view js as a low level language google's java to js compiler shows
that perspective too.
You can argue whether application or DB should be the center of a system,
and that's a different topic. But NASDAQ doesn't run on M$ stack, plain
and simple. MS SQL server can't even run on Linux. Exactly how does M$
power NASDAQ on thousands linux boxes? You saw a trivial system that
peaks at 5000t/s and you believe that's NASDAQ stock exchange, stupid
just gets stupider.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : On Java board you first claimed JS to be "lousy" so Google designed : GWT to avoid having to write JS. Then in this thread you claimed JS : having nice support such as jQuery. Here's a problem as jQuery is a : framework that encourages people to write JS. : So you are saying it's great now that you don't have to code JS and : it's also great now you can code JS. Either you have no clue or just : wanna talk from both sides your mouth like a snake oil salesman. : Spin and fail. : You don't know jack how trading firms setup a system. DB is front &
Lol. All the words in the op is copied from the page of Miguel. Feature-wise
, Java is inferior to c#, even after the discussion here. It's a pure
technical discussion. I don't know why you guys are so upset.
I am not upset at all. I am just pointing out the obvious. He's
the creator of Mono and what do you expect him to say? Isn't he
a well known M$ ass kisser?
Quoting his words to prove C# is superior is no different from
quoting my words to prove Java is superior. Both are biased.
At least I substantiate my claim, and he didn't do that in that blog.
From wiki for this guy.
Advocacy of Microsoft technologies
De Icaza endorsed Microsoft's Office Open XML (OOXML) document standard,[10]
[11][12] disagreeing with a lot of the widespread criticism in the open
source and free software community.
He has also been a long time advocate of using Mono - a free software
implementation of Microsoft's .NET Framework - in GNOME.[13] This has raised
much disagreement due to the patents that Microsoft holds on, and related
to, the .NET Framework.
.
In early 2010 he received a Microsoft MVP Award.[14]
wise
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Lol. All the words in the op is copied from the page of Miguel. Feature-wise : , Java is inferior to c#, even after the discussion here. It's a pure : technical discussion. I don't know why you guys are so upset.
d********u 发帖数: 5383
209
As always, you take this as a religion, be out of mind and finally throw
shit out of your mouth which is supposed to do something else but somehow
functions as your bottom. Take it easy, open-source loser dick sucker. you
like to label yourself this way?
By the way, crash is the P0 issue and not acceptable in any circumstances in
business world. It looks to me you think crash is ok for LSE as long as it'
s fixable. What a shame! Maybe the garbage company you are working for don't
care about this since you already know you are making garbage every day? Go
potty, man. Don't forget to wipe you mouth up.
10]
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : I am not upset at all. I am just pointing out the obvious. He's : the creator of Mono and what do you expect him to say? Isn't he : a well known M$ ass kisser? : Quoting his words to prove C# is superior is no different from : quoting my words to prove Java is superior. Both are biased. : At least I substantiate my claim, and he didn't do that in that blog. : From wiki for this guy. : Advocacy of Microsoft technologies : De Icaza endorsed Microsoft's Office Open XML (OOXML) document standard,[10] : [11][12] disagreeing with a lot of the widespread criticism in the open
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
210
LOL, you don't know what you are talking about. I don't think crash
is OK. But high latency is a non starter. And M$ stack sucked in both
counts for LSE. I said LSE decided to replace M$ crap due to latency
issue, not crash. You don't throw out 40M investment due to a crash,
as long as it's fixable. A 7 hours crash on M$ was just the nail on
the coffin.
I worked on mobile industry and three 9s and four 9s are on the
contract. I architecture system serving millions of online users.
It's not like NeverLearn who did some silverlight on frontend
and bullshit about scalablity. I don't talk about things I don't
understand.
You can spit shit all day and it won't change the fact LSE was a PR
disaster for MS.
in
it'
't
Go
【在 d********u 的大作中提到】 : As always, you take this as a religion, be out of mind and finally throw : shit out of your mouth which is supposed to do something else but somehow : functions as your bottom. Take it easy, open-source loser dick sucker. you : like to label yourself this way? : By the way, crash is the P0 issue and not acceptable in any circumstances in : business world. It looks to me you think crash is ok for LSE as long as it' : s fixable. What a shame! Maybe the garbage company you are working for don't : care about this since you already know you are making garbage every day? Go : potty, man. Don't forget to wipe you mouth up. :
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : I am not upset at all. I am just pointing out the obvious. He's : the creator of Mono and what do you expect him to say? Isn't he : a well known M$ ass kisser? : Quoting his words to prove C# is superior is no different from : quoting my words to prove Java is superior. Both are biased. : At least I substantiate my claim, and he didn't do that in that blog. : From wiki for this guy. : Advocacy of Microsoft technologies : De Icaza endorsed Microsoft's Office Open XML (OOXML) document standard,[10] : [11][12] disagreeing with a lot of the widespread criticism in the open
t*******e 发帖数: 684
213
Generics is merely a compile time feature, which is removed at runtime. What
makes you think it causes JVM slower?
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : 3. jvm is much shower if generic is used.
N********n 发帖数: 8363
214
I have worked on .Net firms providing solutions to both the financial
sector clients and major hospitals from US to Europe handling life
and death importance. In other words, it's the big league not like
the community suckers you bragged about.
It's b/c of that background I know what major players are out there
in the field and what techniques they use so I could bust your ".Net
not good for the NY market" lies easily.
When Nasdaq's OMX team (NASDAQ's top platfrom btw) looked for .Net
people they sent us inquiry emails, sucker. We just recently brought
in a superb 20-year DB veteran once worked for Visa, and guess what
is used over there? .Net / Sql Server.
Another spin. Another denial. Another fail. LOL
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : LOL, you don't know what you are talking about. I don't think crash : is OK. But high latency is a non starter. And M$ stack sucked in both : counts for LSE. I said LSE decided to replace M$ crap due to latency : issue, not crash. You don't throw out 40M investment due to a crash, : as long as it's fixable. A 7 hours crash on M$ was just the nail on : the coffin. : I worked on mobile industry and three 9s and four 9s are on the : contract. I architecture system serving millions of online users. : It's not like NeverLearn who did some silverlight on frontend : and bullshit about scalablity. I don't talk about things I don't
n*w 发帖数: 3393
215
Runtime casting.
"Runtime casts are inserted by the compiler to ensure that the runtime types
are what you think they are. This means that there is runtime casting that
you cannot see (the compiler inserts the casts)"
What
【在 t*******e 的大作中提到】 : Generics is merely a compile time feature, which is removed at runtime. What : makes you think it causes JVM slower?
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
216
LOL, of course Nasdaq has many trivial and non mission-critical
projects that can employ cheap M$ shop. But they won't do that
on their bread and butter stock exchange. M$ stack simple doesn't run
on linux cluster. No matter what you try to cover up here, you lied
and you were exposed.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : I have worked on .Net firms providing solutions to both the financial : sector clients and major hospitals from US to Europe handling life : and death importance. In other words, it's the big league not like : the community suckers you bragged about. : It's b/c of that background I know what major players are out there : in the field and what techniques they use so I could bust your ".Net : not good for the NY market" lies easily. : When Nasdaq's OMX team (NASDAQ's top platfrom btw) looked for .Net : people they sent us inquiry emails, sucker. We just recently brought
【在 t*******e 的大作中提到】 : Generics is merely a compile time feature, which is removed at runtime. What : makes you think it causes JVM slower?
N********n 发帖数: 8363
218
He's a community fool used to claim with Hibernate there's no need
to worry about DB any more, and got laughed around by those actually
worked in the real world data-intensive industry.
【在 d********u 的大作中提到】 : As always, you take this as a religion, be out of mind and finally throw : shit out of your mouth which is supposed to do something else but somehow : functions as your bottom. Take it easy, open-source loser dick sucker. you : like to label yourself this way? : By the way, crash is the P0 issue and not acceptable in any circumstances in : business world. It looks to me you think crash is ok for LSE as long as it' : s fixable. What a shame! Maybe the garbage company you are working for don't : care about this since you already know you are making garbage every day? Go : potty, man. Don't forget to wipe you mouth up. :
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
219
That's a trivial difference. What benchmark proves that causes Java to be
slower
than C#?
types
that
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Runtime casting. : "Runtime casts are inserted by the compiler to ensure that the runtime types : are what you think they are. This means that there is runtime casting that : you cannot see (the compiler inserts the casts)" : : What
L***n 发帖数: 6727
220
怎么说着说着骂人了，这是技术版吗
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : He's a community fool used to claim with Hibernate there's no need : to worry about DB any more, and got laughed around by those actually : worked in the real world data-intensive industry.
You lie again. When did I say there's no need to worry about DB
any more with Hibernate? Show me the post.
In fact, it's because you don't want to get locked in by single DB
vendor and you want to minimize DB scalability issue by caching
on app server that's the reason you use hibernate. You don't even
get the point of ORM and you start arguing agian.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : He's a community fool used to claim with Hibernate there's no need : to worry about DB any more, and got laughed around by those actually : worked in the real world data-intensive industry.
t*******e 发帖数: 684
222
断章取义啊，
Runtime casts are inserted by the compiler to ensure that the runtime types
are what you think they are. This means that there is runtime casting that
you cannot see (the compiler inserts the casts), and thus generics confer no
performance benefit over non-generics code.
注意最后被你掐掉的一句。
types
that
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : Runtime casting. : "Runtime casts are inserted by the compiler to ensure that the runtime types : are what you think they are. This means that there is runtime casting that : you cannot see (the compiler inserts the casts)" : : What
【在 t*******e 的大作中提到】 : 断章取义啊， : Runtime casts are inserted by the compiler to ensure that the runtime types : are what you think they are. This means that there is runtime casting that : you cannot see (the compiler inserts the casts), and thus generics confer no : performance benefit over non-generics code. : 注意最后被你掐掉的一句。 : : types : that
N********n 发帖数: 8363
225
Nasdaq needs to provide their client business intelligence analysis
on a mass scale that only a dataware house solution like Sql Server
can handle while those linux servers are sent to handle the secondary
queue/cache/file servers, sucker.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : LOL, of course Nasdaq has many trivial and non mission-critical : projects that can employ cheap M$ shop. But they won't do that : on their bread and butter stock exchange. M$ stack simple doesn't run : on linux cluster. No matter what you try to cover up here, you lied : and you were exposed.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
226
What a loser. Sure Nasdaq needs to give their client data for analysis.
But where did those data come from to begin with? Stock exchange is hard
because its low latency requirement. And M$ stack failed miserably there,
proven by LSE. You bullshit like you know the business. Sure their client
can obtain data and do bunch of analysis, but the requirment is much
relaxed. And it wasn't like only sql server can do this. The financial
market is ruled by *nix, Oracle and DB2.
Just answer me this simple question, did Nasdaq stock exchange run on MS
stack or did you lie?
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : Nasdaq needs to provide their client business intelligence analysis : on a mass scale that only a dataware house solution like Sql Server : can handle while those linux servers are sent to handle the secondary : queue/cache/file servers, sucker.
N********n 发帖数: 8363
227
Of course the trading data has to go through the DB to make it into
the dataware house to meet not only just latency requirement but also
that of disaster recovery, high availbility and so on that Sql Server
is built for. What else you wanna spin?
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : What a loser. Sure Nasdaq needs to give their client data for analysis. : But where did those data come from to begin with? Stock exchange is hard : because its low latency requirement. And M$ stack failed miserably there, : proven by LSE. You bullshit like you know the business. Sure their client : can obtain data and do bunch of analysis, but the requirment is much : relaxed. And it wasn't like only sql server can do this. The financial : market is ruled by *nix, Oracle and DB2. : Just answer me this simple question, did Nasdaq stock exchange run on MS : stack or did you lie?
WTF? SQL server doesn't run on linux at all. The had a huge linux cluster,
they didn't mention anything about windows. And you still believe the DB
is SQL server?
I get that. You don't want to be a liar you rather be an idiot.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : Of course the trading data has to go through the DB to make it into : the dataware house to meet not only just latency requirement but also : that of disaster recovery, high availbility and so on that Sql Server : is built for. What else you wanna spin?
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : What a loser. Sure Nasdaq needs to give their client data for analysis. : But where did those data come from to begin with? Stock exchange is hard : because its low latency requirement. And M$ stack failed miserably there, : proven by LSE. You bullshit like you know the business. Sure their client : can obtain data and do bunch of analysis, but the requirment is much : relaxed. And it wasn't like only sql server can do this. The financial : market is ruled by *nix, Oracle and DB2. : Just answer me this simple question, did Nasdaq stock exchange run on MS : stack or did you lie?
第一帖这个图c#比java快这个多的原因之一就有generics。
这个链接有详细比较。http://www.jprl.com/Blog/archive/development/2007/Aug-31.html
其中summery的第一句就否定了你的”trivial“断言。
“
Summary
The generics capabilities in Java and .NET differ significantly. Syntax wise
, Java and C# generics initially look quite similar, and share similar
concepts such as constraints. The semantics of generics is where they differ
most, with .NET permitting full runtime introspection of generic types and
generic type parameters in ways that are obvious in their utility (instance
creation, array creation, performance benefits for value types due to lack
of boxing) and completely lacking in Java.
In short, all that Java generics permit is greater type safety with no new
capabilities, with an implementation that permits blatant violation of the
type system with nothing more than warnings:
List stringList = new ArrayList ();
List rawList = stringList;
// only triggers a warning
List
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : 第一帖这个图c#比java快这个多的原因之一就有generics。 : 这个链接有详细比较。http://www.jprl.com/Blog/archive/development/2007/Aug-31.html : 其中summery的第一句就否定了你的”trivial“断言。 : “ : Summary : The generics capabilities in Java and .NET differ significantly. Syntax wise : , Java and C# generics initially look quite similar, and share similar : concepts such as constraints. The semantics of generics is where they differ : most, with .NET permitting full runtime introspection of generic types and : generic type parameters in ways that are obvious in their utility (instance
【在 n*w 的大作中提到】 : 第一帖这个图c#比java快这个多的原因之一就有generics。 : 这个链接有详细比较。http://www.jprl.com/Blog/archive/development/2007/Aug-31.html : 其中summery的第一句就否定了你的”trivial“断言。 : “ : Summary : The generics capabilities in Java and .NET differ significantly. Syntax wise : , Java and C# generics initially look quite similar, and share similar : concepts such as constraints. The semantics of generics is where they differ : most, with .NET permitting full runtime introspection of generic types and : generic type parameters in ways that are obvious in their utility (instance
我已经在另一个回帖说了怀疑原作者会不会biased。
你这个比较我以前看过。mono的速度慢但内存小。微软的clr c#比mono快。
可惜那个网站没有比较。很好奇，
”Summary
The generics capabilities in Java and .NET differ significantly
“
Their queue and redistribution cluster is a genuine NATIVE module
where neither C# nor Java would be used. And yet you spin it as if
a proof .Net is bad.
This is so pathetic. You could not prove Java is better than C# so
you bring out a native module to smear .Net.
No, I was talking about linux box. I didn't even mention Java
there. In any case, it's not sql server coz it can't run on
linux. You got it now, liar?
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : Their queue and redistribution cluster is a genuine NATIVE module : where neither C# nor Java would be used. And yet you spin it as if : a proof .Net is bad. : This is so pathetic. You could not prove Java is better than C# so : you bring out a native module to smear .Net.
And who in their right mind would run full blown DBs on lower stack
nodes to begin with if not being completely clueless?
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : No, I was talking about linux box. I didn't even mention Java : there. In any case, it's not sql server coz it can't run on : linux. You got it now, liar?
c****e 发帖数: 1453
245
Taobao used Greenplum's product to replace Oracle because Oracle is too slow
. They claimed a used-to-be 2 hour BI query takes only minutes to finish now
. The current trend is big data analysis, where you get MPP architecture and
in-memory DB.
Non-SQL approach wins in many cases but also has its limitation. The
consistency and transaction support might be very expensive. That's why you
see more and more solutions in BI area are moving to Non-SQL but most of the
billing pipelines are still on relational DB, including Taobao and Amazon.
Since Greenplum uses postgresql, Taobao might want to build one with mysql. Sina is reported to have similar project.
p*****y 发帖数: 529
246
看不过去了， 冒泡出来说句话。
financial里backend我还没见过用.net的， 更别说trading platform了. trading
platform几乎一色 java, 只有在 equity多数用 c++, 但用java的越来越多了， 因为
写起来快。
nasdaq的不知道， nyse的是c++写的， 因为那个area traditionally belongs to c++
. 没见哪个exchange 用windows server的，谁有那勇气我只能钦佩加惋惜。
还有拿hospital的project说事， 看来你还真没做过seriously large scale
application. 不说别的， 看看pay就知道， consultant 60-70 per hour, employees
pay up to 150k (you got to lead a team to get that!) 那可是个养老的地儿.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : And who in their right mind would run full blown DBs on lower stack : nodes to begin with if not being completely clueless?
【在 p*****y 的大作中提到】 : 看不过去了， 冒泡出来说句话。 : financial里backend我还没见过用.net的， 更别说trading platform了. trading : platform几乎一色 java, 只有在 equity多数用 c++, 但用java的越来越多了， 因为 : 写起来快。 : nasdaq的不知道， nyse的是c++写的， 因为那个area traditionally belongs to c++ : . 没见哪个exchange 用windows server的，谁有那勇气我只能钦佩加惋惜。 : 还有拿hospital的project说事， 看来你还真没做过seriously large scale : application. 不说别的， 看看pay就知道， consultant 60-70 per hour, employees : pay up to 150k (you got to lead a team to get that!) 那可是个养老的地儿.
N********n 发帖数: 8363
248
写起来快 in comparison with C++ maybe. No one claims he could write
boiler-plate Java code faster than C#. It's the other way around.
Stock exchange is a heavy real-time system traditionally written in
native code. It's not even relevant to a C# VS Java debate and yet
some Java folks were so desperate to trash C# they decided to spin
this LSE thing out as proof that C# is bad.
One of us clearly hasn't done large scale projects for health care IT,
and it's not me. 60-70 is a senior engineer rate not team lead unless
it's a small firm. The health care sector is dominated by 3 or 4 big
players. If you can't name them on top of your head and what platform
they use then you don't know this sector.
【在 p*****y 的大作中提到】 : 看不过去了， 冒泡出来说句话。 : financial里backend我还没见过用.net的， 更别说trading platform了. trading : platform几乎一色 java, 只有在 equity多数用 c++, 但用java的越来越多了， 因为 : 写起来快。 : nasdaq的不知道， nyse的是c++写的， 因为那个area traditionally belongs to c++ : . 没见哪个exchange 用windows server的，谁有那勇气我只能钦佩加惋惜。 : 还有拿hospital的project说事， 看来你还真没做过seriously large scale : application. 不说别的， 看看pay就知道， consultant 60-70 per hour, employees : pay up to 150k (you got to lead a team to get that!) 那可是个养老的地儿.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
249
LOL，不知道拿nasdaq来鼓吹C#/windows/sql server的是谁？我提nasdaq了吗？
是您老鼓吹nasdaq用的是windows/sql server，丢人了能怪谁？
整个financial sector，几乎清一色的linux，语言就是java/c++混合。health care
sector，用户数可能很大，同时在线的用户能有多少？对latency能有啥要求？没事谁
登录医院/保险的网站呀。不懂装懂到这份上也算极品。
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : 写起来快 in comparison with C++ maybe. No one claims he could write : boiler-plate Java code faster than C#. It's the other way around. : Stock exchange is a heavy real-time system traditionally written in : native code. It's not even relevant to a C# VS Java debate and yet : some Java folks were so desperate to trash C# they decided to spin : this LSE thing out as proof that C# is bad. : One of us clearly hasn't done large scale projects for health care IT, : and it's not me. 60-70 is a senior engineer rate not team lead unless : it's a small firm. The health care sector is dominated by 3 or 4 big
n*w 发帖数: 3393
250
I know some people in wall street. I will ask them.
You were the one bringing in first LSE and then NYSE to trash C# and
are still spinning here insisting it's "Java/C++". The lower layer
latency critical REALTIME modules are always handled by c/c++ be it
Linux or Windows. IT HAS NO BUSINESS OF JAVA WHATSOEVER. Yet you
wanna sneak in as if Java is there handling latency while C# cannot.
So why don't you give a straight answer which language is handling
the real-time latency, C/C++ or Java? If it's the former then why
are you stealing their credits? LOL
The truth is application DBs sit at the higher app layer where they
should be, and that's where Sql Server and .Net come in. That arena
used to be owned by Sun, IBM and Oracle so Java was used a lot. Now
Sun was gone, IBM's DB2 was long surpassed by Sql Server. People
start to like the performance, reliability and BI strength of Sql
Server and adopt it more and more.
"大量的trading platform" are using .Net as well. Just go to a job
site and search.
And whatever happens to that real-time "latency" brouhaha you have
been bullshiting around? Who's 不要脸 counted it as the strength
of Java while it's backend C/C++ modules and DB doing it?
I never said Nasdaq runs it all on Windows. Nobody cares what native
module they do at the lower stack clusters. Our solution firm are not
sending them C/C++ people. They ask for Sql Server DBAs from us and I
know for a fact they like SqlServer.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : 做人不要这么不要脸，LSE废了是事实，大量的trading platform使用 : Java app server做middleware，我还给了个NYSE的索引，04年的。 : 你自己屁都不懂要跳出来说Nasdaq跑在windows上。我老不得已只好 : 证明了Nasdaq跑的是linux cluster。你傻逼就傻逼了，没见识闭嘴就是， : 越争越丢人。你自己的原文如下。 : 发信人: NeverLearn (24K golden bear), 信区: Programming : 标 题: Re: C# is light-years ahead of Java now : 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu May 10 03:02:44 2012, 美东) : : Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows.
g*****g 发帖数: 34805
257
您老够极品，吐出来的狗屎还能吃回去。
"Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows."
现在声称从没说过完全跑的是windows，
"I never said Nasdaq runs it all on Windows." http://lwn.net/Articles/411064/
NASDAQ OMX's exchanges run on thousands of Linux-based servers.
敢问哪里提到了windows? stock exachange通常的做法就是Oracle/DB2做数据库，
Java/C++/C跑不同的模块。如果你去找工作网站，我很肯定nasdaq java比C#
招得多多了。
Java可以Handle realtime equity trade，要举例子我可以给你找。我不知道nasdaq跑
的是啥，因为找不到索引，但我不会像你这样乱喷。更没脸喷了还吃回去。
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : "大量的trading platform" are using .Net as well. Just go to a job : site and search. : And whatever happens to that real-time "latency" brouhaha you have : been bullshiting around? Who's 不要脸 counted it as the strength : of Java while it's backend C/C++ modules and DB doing it? : I never said Nasdaq runs it all on Windows. Nobody cares what native : module they do at the lower stack clusters. Our solution firm are not : sending them C/C++ people. They ask for Sql Server DBAs from us and I : know for a fact they like SqlServer.
N********n 发帖数: 8363
258
No one cites a Linux article where they discuss OS level APIs to find
proof that Windows is used. We sent Sql Server DBAs to them so we know
it for a fact, moron.
Bullshit! Tons of small broker firms claim to have real time platforms,
and it's silly talking. The main game is played by those HFT machines
written in pure native code fighting the game at nano-second level
that'd eat your slow Java wannabies fish alive if you challenge them.
Like said you don't know jack what's going on in the field.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】 : 您老够极品，吐出来的狗屎还能吃回去。 : "Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows." : 现在声称从没说过完全跑的是windows， : "I never said Nasdaq runs it all on Windows." : http://lwn.net/Articles/411064/ : NASDAQ OMX's exchanges run on thousands of Linux-based servers. : 敢问哪里提到了windows? stock exachange通常的做法就是Oracle/DB2做数据库， : Java/C++/C跑不同的模块。如果你去找工作网站，我很肯定nasdaq java比C# : 招得多多了。 : Java可以Handle realtime equity trade，要举例子我可以给你找。我不知道nasdaq跑
l*********s 发帖数: 5409
259
naono-second? You sure ?
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : No one cites a Linux article where they discuss OS level APIs to find : proof that Windows is used. We sent Sql Server DBAs to them so we know : it for a fact, moron. : Bullshit! Tons of small broker firms claim to have real time platforms, : and it's silly talking. The main game is played by those HFT machines : written in pure native code fighting the game at nano-second level : that'd eat your slow Java wannabies fish alive if you challenge them. : Like said you don't know jack what's going on in the field.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : No one cites a Linux article where they discuss OS level APIs to find : proof that Windows is used. We sent Sql Server DBAs to them so we know : it for a fact, moron. : Bullshit! Tons of small broker firms claim to have real time platforms, : and it's silly talking. The main game is played by those HFT machines : written in pure native code fighting the game at nano-second level : that'd eat your slow Java wannabies fish alive if you challenge them. : Like said you don't know jack what's going on in the field.
BATS and Direct Edge run on Windows platform, though written in C++ not C#.
++
employees
【在 p*****y 的大作中提到】 : 看不过去了， 冒泡出来说句话。 : financial里backend我还没见过用.net的， 更别说trading platform了. trading : platform几乎一色 java, 只有在 equity多数用 c++, 但用java的越来越多了， 因为 : 写起来快。 : nasdaq的不知道， nyse的是c++写的， 因为那个area traditionally belongs to c++ : . 没见哪个exchange 用windows server的，谁有那勇气我只能钦佩加惋惜。 : 还有拿hospital的project说事， 看来你还真没做过seriously large scale : application. 不说别的， 看看pay就知道， consultant 60-70 per hour, employees : pay up to 150k (you got to lead a team to get that!) 那可是个养老的地儿.
h****e 发帖数: 2125
263
whats so surprising?
【在 l*********s 的大作中提到】 : naono-second? You sure ?
l*********s 发帖数: 5409
264
wow, so fast ...
【在 h****e 的大作中提到】 : whats so surprising?
N********n 发帖数: 8363
265
Dumbass can't read the job post that I already posted several pages
ago. Look here again what they are using for their dataware house:
You understand what dataware hosue is for? Moron. http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?Job
"The Production DBA is primarily responsible for performing production
support activities for transactional SQL servers, Greenplum and PDW data
warehouses."
"The Production DBA must possess extensive experience in Microsoft SQL
Server administration. "
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : There is talk about sub-nanosecond machines already now. 80% of the : current trading is done by HFT. The market is simply rigged.
Care to point out where I said HFT runs on Windows?
This is supposed to be a topic of enterprise platforms. Some one went
mad and decided to spin out a real-time "latency" nonsense to trash
C#. Now all of sudden it becomes a talk of real-time platforms.
Managed languages, be it C# or Java, cannot beat native code when it
comes to real-time. Hands down. Let's drop this "latency" bullshit.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : Care to point out where I said HFT runs on Windows? : This is supposed to be a topic of enterprise platforms. Some one went : mad and decided to spin out a real-time "latency" nonsense to trash : C#. Now all of sudden it becomes a talk of real-time platforms. : Managed languages, be it C# or Java, cannot beat native code when it : comes to real-time. Hands down. Let's drop this "latency" bullshit.
t****t 发帖数: 6806
272
啊, 随便什么平台好了, 反正超越了物理极限, 太强大太牛逼了, 哦, 还是牛皮
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : Care to point out where I said HFT runs on Windows? : This is supposed to be a topic of enterprise platforms. Some one went : mad and decided to spin out a real-time "latency" nonsense to trash : C#. Now all of sudden it becomes a talk of real-time platforms. : Managed languages, be it C# or Java, cannot beat native code when it : comes to real-time. Hands down. Let's drop this "latency" bullshit.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : Care to point out where I said HFT runs on Windows? : This is supposed to be a topic of enterprise platforms. Some one went : mad and decided to spin out a real-time "latency" nonsense to trash : C#. Now all of sudden it becomes a talk of real-time platforms. : Managed languages, be it C# or Java, cannot beat native code when it : comes to real-time. Hands down. Let's drop this "latency" bullshit.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : Care to point out where I said HFT runs on Windows? : This is supposed to be a topic of enterprise platforms. Some one went : mad and decided to spin out a real-time "latency" nonsense to trash : C#. Now all of sudden it becomes a talk of real-time platforms. : Managed languages, be it C# or Java, cannot beat native code when it : comes to real-time. Hands down. Let's drop this "latency" bullshit.
n*w 发帖数: 3393
277
问一个，可以用scala写android app吗？
t*******e 发帖数: 684
278
Health Care用Java和.net的都有。但是对txn throughput, performance要求不高，但
是对integration, SSO, security有特别的要求。所以同意好虫说的。
"对txn throughput, performance要求不高"??
It's certainly not stock exchange high but still quite high. Try a
contract with big ones such as US Military hospitals and see if it's
high or not.
Healthcare IT is about imaging, workflow and data sharing. C/C++ is
used for imaging, .Net / Java for workflow and RMDBs for sharing.
You mentioned "integration" so I can tell you know the sector unlike
that fool asking "没事谁登录医院/保险?" A clueless question.
data sharing -> EAI
workflow -> BPM/Workflow Engine
These most common techniques do not make healthcare products unique.
Popular bug tracking tools all have work flow engine built-in, no exceptions.
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】 : : "对txn throughput, performance要求不高"?? : It's certainly not stock exchange high but still quite high. Try a : contract with big ones such as US Military hospitals and see if it's : high or not. : Healthcare IT is about imaging, workflow and data sharing. C/C++ is : used for imaging, .Net / Java for workflow and RMDBs for sharing. : You mentioned "integration" so I can tell you know the sector unlike : that fool asking "没事谁登录医院/保险?" A clueless question.
