G*******1
发帖数: 6411 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 Military 讨论区 】
发信人: wlwl12 (戒网), 信区: Military
标 题: 查韦斯的政绩（世界银行数据）
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sat Mar 9 23:49:16 2013, 美东)
查韦斯的政绩（世界银行数据）
冯建三
台湾政治大学新闻系教授
http://www.guancha.cn/FengJianSan/2013_03_08_130757.shtml | G*******1
发帖数: 6411 | 2 "
那个国家基本被毁掉了. 要重建要很长时间.
"
不知道这话怎么理解？
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Military 讨论区 】
: 发信人: wlwl12 (戒网), 信区: Military
: 标 题: 查韦斯的政绩（世界银行数据）
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sat Mar 9 23:49:16 2013, 美东)
: 查韦斯的政绩（世界银行数据）
: 冯建三
: 台湾政治大学新闻系教授
: http://www.guancha.cn/FengJianSan/2013_03_08_130757.shtml
| a**e
发帖数: 8800 | 3 那个国家已经不吃米犹那一套了。要重建恢复米犹的统治势力，需要很长时间。
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: "
: 那个国家基本被毁掉了. 要重建要很长时间.
: "
: 不知道这话怎么理解？
| t**********3
发帖数: 12623 | | l******g
发帖数: 6771 | 5 估计挡了不少白富帅的财路，呵呵
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: "
: 那个国家基本被毁掉了. 要重建要很长时间.
: "
: 不知道这话怎么理解？
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 6 这种数据还贴, 你不如贴北朝鲜老百姓韩战前没有收音机,现在家家都有收音机了,所以
jin fucking就是好.
你不知道吧. 那个国家对私人公司强行收购,影响了国家的声誉.我原来的公司在那里有
分公司,生意基本就是忽略不计.而且腐败贪污盛行.我同事在那里做审计,结论就是我们
公司应该撤出,因为那里不适合做生意.
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: "
: 那个国家基本被毁掉了. 要重建要很长时间.
: "
: 不知道这话怎么理解？
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 7 Chavez’s grim legacy
Nation in ruins, region in crisis
By JUAN CARLOS HIDALGO
Last Updated: 12:05 AM, March 6, 2013
Posted: 11:23 PM, March 5, 2013
Hugo Chavez’s legacy of economic nationalism and authoritarian rule will
haunt Venezuela and its neighbors for years to come.
A country that was once one of the few democracies — albeit an imperfect
one — in a region plagued by military dictatorships, Venezuela now lies at
the bottom of hemispheric rankings on institutional quality and political
and civil liberties.
Ironically, Chavez used elections, referenda and legal technicalities to
destroy vital democratic institutions, such as the separation of powers and
the independence of media — a model later replicated in Ecuador, Bolivia
and Nicaragua.
Chavez called it “Socialism of the 21st century,” but its main features —
messianic leadership, state control of key industries and political
repression — more closely resemble the fascism that marred some South
American countries in the past.
Venezuela’s social fabric will take years, if not decades, to mend.
According to Transparency International, it’s now the most corrupt nation
in Latin America. It’s also one of the most violent, with a staggering
murder rate of 73 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants.
And it’s easy to see the situation deteriorating further in the wake of
Chavez’s death. The government armed and trained at least 25,000 civilians
for a militia bent on “defending the revolution.” None of Chavez’s likely
successors seems to command the loyalty (or even the sympathy) of these die
-hard chavistas.
Disgruntled radical elements armed with Russian rifles could perpetrate even
more violence in the months ahead. At the least, the deep hatred and
mistrust that has divided Venezuelan society between followers and opponents
of Hugo Chavez will outlive him.
Venezuela’s economy is one of his greatest casualties. The Fraser Institute
’s latest Economic Freedom of the World report ranks Venezuela as the least
free economy of 144 nations studied. The inflation rate is among the
highest in the world.
The concrete facts are grimmer still: The country suffers from chronic
shortages of electricity and basic goods. Its roads, bridges and other
infrastructure are literally falling apart after years of neglect, while
Venezula’s industrial and agricultural capacity has been decimated by
repeated expropriations and nationalizations.
The country now imports 70 percent of its food, while oil accounts for 95
percent of its export revenues. The currency was devalued by 32 percent
after a government spending spree leading up to last October’s presidential
election left a staggering fiscal deficit of 8.5 percent of GDP.
And that might not be enough: On the black market, the currency is trading
at a third the new official rate against the dollar, so an even larger
devaluation may come soon.
Chavez wouldn’t have been able to pursue his populist agenda if it weren’t
for oil, which some estimate accounted for $980 billion in revenues during
his tenure. About a third went for social programs — hence his popularity
among the poor. But the rest was squandered in dubious investments or went
to swell the bank accounts of a new privileged class called the “boligarchs
” — so named because they’ve prospered tremendously under Chavez’s so-
called Bolivarian revolution.
Tens of billions also went to foster his regional ambitions — financing
extreme left-wing political parties, governments and even armed insurgencies
in Latin America.
Venezuela’s client states will surely feel Chavez’s departure. Without the
massive oil subsidy and other handouts it gets from Venezuela, Cuba’s
highly vulnerable economy would probably collapse. Since this would
jeopardize the Castro dictatorship, Havana is playing an active role in
deciding who will replace Chavez and how the succession will play out.
Other regional allies such as Argentina, Nicaragua, Ecuador and Bolivia will
likely also face cutbacks in economic assistance, although not significant
enough to threaten their leaders’ hold on power.
Still, the menace of leftist populism in Latin America will be greatly
contained by the absence of Chavez’s wallet and charisma and by the visible
mess he left behind. After all, the group of nations aligned with Venezuela
— the “Bolivarian Alliance for the Americas” plus Argentina — represent
only 20 percent of the region’s GDP. Other countries such as Chile, Peru
and Mexico that have chosen democratic capitalism are faring much better and
represent a far more attractive model.
In the final analysis, history will remember Hugo Chavez as an authoritarian
caudillo whose policies set back Venezuela’s development and institutions
by decades. The faster Venezuela and Latin America turn the page, the better.
Juan Carlos Hidalgo is policy analyst on Latin America at the Cato Institute
’s Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity. | l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 8 Requiem for a Despot: the Death of Hugo Chavez
By John A. Huettner
President Hugo Chavez, the acerbic tinpot who declared a Bolivarian
revolution in Venezuela, demonized America, and resurrected tired leftist
politics throughout Latin America, died Tuesday of cancer. Strongman and
Vice President Nicolas Meduro announced the death saying Chavez died about 4
:30 p.m. local time.
During his 14 years in power, Chavez made a career out of trashing
capitalism and the United States and fomenting unrest and chaos throughout
South America. He polarized Venezuela through divisiveness and fear
mongering and ascended to power using a brew of boorishness, thuggery,
racism and class envy cloaked in nationalistic and socialist rhetoric.
Like other dictators, he first led a failed coup in 1992 and was jailed but
eventually was elected president in 1998, after which he managed to outlast
a coup attempt in 2002 and thereafter to consolidate his power and to
achieve billionaire status for himself and select members of his family.
Strutting around in army garb or blazing red, he showed up on television or
radio on a daily basis to harangue his enemies and lecture his followers
with turgid, long winded speeches espousing his views on everything from
music to gardening.
Always the kleptocrat, Chavez felched his country's oil resources and
declared open season on its wealthy citizens to fund state food programs, "
free" housing, health care and education, and other redistribution schemes
which did little to reduce poverty despite the squandering hundreds of
millions of dollars to buy the votes of his loyal Chavistas in a series of
questionable elections.
Predictably, as he began running out of businesses to nationalize and other
peoples' money to prodigalize, professionals fled the country, inflation
gutted the economy and the homicide rate rose astronomically to one of the
world's highest.
Chavez developed cancer and underwent surgery in Cuba in 2011 to excise what
he called a tumor in his pelvis. Further surgery, chemotherapy and
radiation treatments proved unavailing in treating the cancer which Chavez
curiously never described in detail as to its origins.
Despite his illness, Chavez ostensibly continued to reach out to his
followers in the past few months through telephonic speeches and Twitter
postings. Nonetheless, he was rarely seen in public before his reelection
last October and was last seen in December as he boarded a plane for Cuba
for more surgery.
Chavez's absence from public view provoked consternation among his opponents
and mounting concern among his supporters as suspicion grew in recent
months that he had died before taking his oath of office in January, which
would have required immediate elections according to Venezuela's
constitution. His hand picked successor, Nicolas Maduro, has taken over and
will be the ruling socialist party candidate in elections which the
government has said will be called within 30 days.
Throughout his reign, "El Comandante" pursued his dream of a socialist
United States of South America, to be ruled, presumably, by him. He
idolized Fidel Castro and sought to emulate every leftist dictator since
Lenin by casting himself as the noble David in opposition to the United
States as the world's capitalist Goliath.
While his sycophants hyperbolized him as the most gifted in a long line of
Latin American revolutionaries, he cloaked himself in the typical trappings
of a grandiose dictator. His image and slogans are plastered all over
Venezuela and he carefully and ruthlessly placed himself at the center of a
Hitlerian personality cult, often declaring, "I am Venezuela," and
delighting when his followers chanted "I am Chavez."
He routinely cancelled all programming on state run television to entertain
himself with hours-long disquisitions about his own greatness and to
demonize his enemies, including capitalists in general and the United States
and Jews in particular. These rants often descended into little more than
loutish home movies which everyone was expected to watch lest they later be
asked what he had gone on and on about. Chavez had opinions about virtually
everything and people were expected to know what those were and to agree
with them no matter how absurd.
Throughout his rule, Chavez was apparently able to buy support through
welfare programs and giveaways aimed at keeping enough dumbed down,
impoverished, dependent voters to assure his reelection. While there is no
suggestion yet that Chavez ran death camps or promoted genocide, he had no
problem jailing or exiling political opponents, stifling any opposition, and
encouraging his followers to intimidate and denounce anybody who disagreed
with him.
He continually spewed the usual tired utopian socialist bromides about
community, equality, and a leaderless society while personally doing little
more than seizing land and other property and gifting it to family members,
political allies and supporters. While he claimed to preside over a free
and democratic nation, he controlled every aspect of government and micro
managed every aspect of society. Ultimately, little changed in Venezuela
during his rule other than the redistribution of wealth to cronies, gutting
of the middle class and perhaps the alleviation of some poverty at the very
low ends of the spectrum.
Chavez was a master at promoting deadly sins such as greed, anger and
jealousy as badges of honor to be worn proudly by "the people" in their
struggle against the specter of capitalism. He began like so many other
military dictators with a failed coup in 1992 which landed him in prison
from which he plotted his comeback.
Chavez was born in western Venezuela in 1954 one of six brothers who were
the sons of school teachers and who have amassed great personal wealth and
political power over the course of his rule.
Once a promising baseball player, he joined the military after becoming
enthralled with Fidel Castro at an early age and became determined to
emulate Bolivar and bring socialism as he saw it to Venezuela. Along the
way, he had three children by his first wife and another by his second wife,
whom he divorced in 2004.
In 1998, he became Venezuela's youngest president at the age of 44, smashing
the existing two party system and replacing it with his socialist party.
He later redrafted the country's laws and constitution to his liking;
although he had little problem violating even these rules when it suited him.
After being elected in 1998, he aligned himself with communist regimes such
as Cuba, disenchanting many of those who had voted for him. In 2002, it
appeared he would be toppled in a coup supported by massive street
demonstrations; but he was restored to power with the help of the military
after his street thugs and security forces opened fire on demonstrators, and
the coup's organizers were unable to consolidate enough support to take
over the government.
After the failed coup attempt, Chavez became further emboldened and reached
out to virtually any rogue regime which shared his hatred for the United
States, no matter how abhorrent or criminal. Among his closest allies were
Saddam, Muammar Gaddafi, Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-il and Bashar al-Assad of
Syria.
While Chavez always maintained that Venezuela was headed inexorably toward
some socialist ideal, he did little to change things and ruled virtually as
a dictator throughout his years as president of Venezuela.
Given Chavez' totalitarian control over Venezuela, it will be interesting to
see if his government survives his passing. | l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 9 看来左棍在哪里都一样,不管是白人,黑人和华人.
委内瑞拉那么多石油,竟然肉类,鸡蛋,甚至汽油供应都有问题. 年度通货膨胀率是23%.
一周会掉电blackout好几次. 犯罪率比美国和欧盟加起来还要高,Caracas 是世界上最
危险的城市.
不知道楼主打算怎么解释?
Chavismo and Us
An admiring American Left chooses to ignore the wreckage that is the Chávez
legacy.
By Mona Charen
One of the most important reasons for studying history is that virtually
every stupid idea that is in vogue today has been tried before and proved
disastrous before, time and again. — Thomas Sowell
The Berlin Wall was demolished by joyful Europeans throwing off the chains
of collectivism nearly a quarter century ago. The Soviet Union, its
fraudulent promise of a “workers’ paradise” long since proved a bitter
delusion, fell soon after. But the idea that government control over the
economy can improve the lives of ordinary people, particularly the poor,
does not die.
Hugo Chávez clawed his way to total power the way other demagogues and
thugs — from Lenin to Perón to Castro to Correa — have done, by promising
to redistribute the nation’s wealth (Lenin and Castro also used guns).
Like them, Chávez maintained power by crippling the democratic institutions
of his nation.
Some American “useful idiots” are undisturbed by acts of thuggish
repression, such as shutting down newspapers and opposition television and
radio stations, jailing “dissidents,” harassing minorities (the Jews, in
Chávez’s case), and giving aid to narcoterrorists and murderous dictators
(as Chávez did with Ahmadinejad, Castro, and Assad), so long as he
redistributes wealth, sows class hatred, and condemns the United States.
Jimmy Carter, cementing his status as the most shameful former president in
U.S. history, praised Chávez’s “commitment to improving the lives of
millions of his fellow countrymen.” Representative Jose Serrano, a New York
Democrat, tweeted, “Hugo Chavez was a leader that understood the needs of
the poor. He was committed to empowering the powerless. R.I.P. Mr. President
.” An assortment of Hollywood dunces — Sean Penn, Danny Glover, and Oliver
Stone — have at various times paid tribute to the fulminating despot.
With its huge supply of oil and an educated and urbanized middle class,
Venezuela ought to be among the wealthiest countries in the world. Yet since
Chávez took power 14 years ago, Venezuela’s economy has been ravaged.
Even with the world’s largest oil reserves, Venezuela’s growth has lagged
behind that of other Latin American nations. Because Chávez nationalized,
expropriated, or destroyed other industries, Venezuela’s exports now
consist almost entirely of oil, whereas pre-Chávez, oil accounted for 77
percent of exports.
Chávez spent many millions on programs for the poor. Yet his assault on the
private economy hurt the poor most of all. The currency has been devalued
five times in the past ten years and has lost 66 percent of its value since
2008. Inflation has been running at more than 23 percent annually, robbing
the poor, along with everyone else, of purchasing power.
The government’s response to food shortages has been twofold — forcing
producers to meet quotas and placing price controls on more than 400 items.
Like Stalin before him, Chávez resorted to his own version of the “
saboteur” accusation against businessmen attempting to survive in his
tightly regulated world. Forty butchers were arrested in 2010 for charging
more than the permitted price for beef. Here’s AP: “The government says
butchers can charge 17 bolivars — about $4 — for a kilogram of beef.
Butchers say they have to pay 14 bolivars — about $3 — for the meat,
leaving them no margin to cover the other costs of their business.” In
addition to meat shortages, there are chronic shortages of eggs, flour, oil,
sugar, and gasoline.
Since the nationalization of the electrical-power industry in 2007,
Venezuela has been plagued by blackouts. Every region of the country is
affected several times a week.
And then there is crime. Venezuela had a high crime rate before Chávez, but
the murder rate has more than tripled since he took power, making Caracas
the most dangerous city on earth. Venezuela now suffers more murders than
the United States and the European Union combined, though its population is
only 1/28th as large. Most often victimized? The poor. Chávez has opened
Venezuela’s doors to drug traffickers and tolerates corruption among the
police. The U.S. State Department warns travelers of the danger of robbery
and kidnapping as soon as they arrive at the airport. “Individuals wearing
what appear to be official uniforms or other credentials are involved in
facilitating or perpetrating these crimes.”
The Chávez legacy is a quintupled national debt; crumbling infrastructure (
including hospitals); shortages of food, clean water, electrical power, and
gasoline; high inflation; and devastating crime. And that doesn’t include
the wreckage that Chavismo has made of Venezuela’s political culture.
The poor have done much better in free-market countries like Chile, Peru,
and Brazil. But those on the left, including Chávez’s American admirers,
will never learn — or perhaps just don’t care.
— Mona Charen is a nationally syndicated columnist. © 2013 Creators
Syndicate, Inc. | G*******1
发帖数: 6411 | 10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela
wiki上的数据，老查99年上任总统，之前98年的inflation rate是35%，96年更坏达到
99%。接任之后，2001年委内瑞拉inflation rate掉到12.5%。之后开始有起伏。你单列
出一个23%却不对比历史数据为免太搞笑了。即便23%也比他接任前的通膨要低。
另外贴文章你最好给出source，谁都知道老查反美，你对这么political biased的文章
不仅深信不疑还用来反驳老查你觉得有说服力吗？
.
vez
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 看来左棍在哪里都一样,不管是白人,黑人和华人.
: 委内瑞拉那么多石油,竟然肉类,鸡蛋,甚至汽油供应都有问题. 年度通货膨胀率是23%.
: 一周会掉电blackout好几次. 犯罪率比美国和欧盟加起来还要高,Caracas 是世界上最
: 危险的城市.
: 不知道楼主打算怎么解释?
: Chavismo and Us
: An admiring American Left chooses to ignore the wreckage that is the Chávez
: legacy.
: By Mona Charen
: One of the most important reasons for studying history is that virtually
| | | b******o
发帖数: 5644 | 11 现在知道为什么文革时要宁要社会主义的草，也不要资本主义的苗。因为社会主义的草
，可以开荒种社会主义的苗。而资本主义的苗长得再茁壮，给劳动人民的，也只是资本
家认为可以维持稳定的最低限度。 | G*******1
发帖数: 6411 | 12 同样是刚才的link里，委内瑞拉的GINI指数从1996年的48.8%下降到2011年的39.02%。贫
富差距在持续缩小，更多的穷人、中产阶层在收益。
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela
: wiki上的数据，老查99年上任总统，之前98年的inflation rate是35%，96年更坏达到
: 99%。接任之后，2001年委内瑞拉inflation rate掉到12.5%。之后开始有起伏。你单列
: 出一个23%却不对比历史数据为免太搞笑了。即便23%也比他接任前的通膨要低。
: 另外贴文章你最好给出source，谁都知道老查反美，你对这么political biased的文章
: 不仅深信不疑还用来反驳老查你觉得有说服力吗？
:
: .
: vez
| G*******1
发帖数: 6411 | 13 http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Military/39308325_3.html
对了，隔壁还贴了过去委内瑞拉虽为产油国，穷人也分不到好处。老查上任后才改变。
“
发信人: wlwl12 (戒网), 信区: Military
标 题: Re: 查韦斯的政绩（世界银行数据）
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Mar 10 00:20:01 2013, 美东)
查韦斯之前石油利润是分不到穷人身上的。这里有英国拍的关于委内瑞拉的纪录片：
http://t.cn/zYUhS5M
http://t.cn/zYnqR05
”
.
vez
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 看来左棍在哪里都一样,不管是白人,黑人和华人.
: 委内瑞拉那么多石油,竟然肉类,鸡蛋,甚至汽油供应都有问题. 年度通货膨胀率是23%.
: 一周会掉电blackout好几次. 犯罪率比美国和欧盟加起来还要高,Caracas 是世界上最
: 危险的城市.
: 不知道楼主打算怎么解释?
: Chavismo and Us
: An admiring American Left chooses to ignore the wreckage that is the Chávez
: legacy.
: By Mona Charen
: One of the most important reasons for studying history is that virtually
| b*******n
发帖数: 8420 | 14 朝鲜的基尼系数如何？
。贫
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: 同样是刚才的link里，委内瑞拉的GINI指数从1996年的48.8%下降到2011年的39.02%。贫
: 富差距在持续缩小，更多的穷人、中产阶层在收益。
| b*******n
发帖数: 8420 | 15 另外也可以对比一下其他国家，尤其是2000年之后油价上涨，因为石油而致富的国家
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela
: wiki上的数据，老查99年上任总统，之前98年的inflation rate是35%，96年更坏达到
: 99%。接任之后，2001年委内瑞拉inflation rate掉到12.5%。之后开始有起伏。你单列
: 出一个23%却不对比历史数据为免太搞笑了。即便23%也比他接任前的通膨要低。
: 另外贴文章你最好给出source，谁都知道老查反美，你对这么political biased的文章
: 不仅深信不疑还用来反驳老查你觉得有说服力吗？
:
: .
: vez
| G*******1
发帖数: 6411 | 16 朝鲜既不是民选体制，经济上也基本上封闭的。可比性不强。
【在 b*******n 的大作中提到】
: 朝鲜的基尼系数如何？
:
: 。贫
| G*******1
发帖数: 6411 | 17 南美国家我没有数据，你有不妨贴出来。
【在 b*******n 的大作中提到】
: 另外也可以对比一下其他国家，尤其是2000年之后油价上涨，因为石油而致富的国家
| t**********3
发帖数: 12623 | | l********n
发帖数: 833 | 19 这十几年石油从二十多美元一桶上涨到近百元一桶，考虑到这点，查韦斯政绩为负 | l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 20 呵呵, 你扯那么多蛋干什么?
光这个40个卖牛肉的被抓不是已经说明问题了嘛?
委内瑞拉被proven的石油储量世界第一,现在产油量也是全世界前１０吧． 难道牛肉
还要控制价格? 你看现在哪些国家还在控制牛肉价格的？
Forty butchers were arrested in 2010 for charging
more than the permitted price for beef. Here’s AP: “The government says
butchers can charge 17 bolivars — about $4 — for a kilogram of beef.
Butchers say they have to pay 14 bolivars — about $3 — for the meat,
leaving them no margin to cover the other costs of their business.”
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela
: wiki上的数据，老查99年上任总统，之前98年的inflation rate是35%，96年更坏达到
: 99%。接任之后，2001年委内瑞拉inflation rate掉到12.5%。之后开始有起伏。你单列
: 出一个23%却不对比历史数据为免太搞笑了。即便23%也比他接任前的通膨要低。
: 另外贴文章你最好给出source，谁都知道老查反美，你对这么political biased的文章
: 不仅深信不疑还用来反驳老查你觉得有说服力吗？
:
: .
: vez
| | | G*******1
发帖数: 6411 | 21 你真搞笑，那40个被抓的是违反了他们国家的法律，你在美国违法试一试，看看抓不抓
你？你是不是觉得美国不认可的法律就不是法律了？
物价控制在世界各国历史上很常见吧。美国、俄罗斯、法国、德国、日本还是中国，哪
个国家没有过？
对了阿根廷就在最近也在控制物价，你别胡扯他们也是社会主义国家
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/10/02/argentina-moves-to-control-
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵, 你扯那么多蛋干什么?
: 光这个40个卖牛肉的被抓不是已经说明问题了嘛?
: 委内瑞拉被proven的石油储量世界第一,现在产油量也是全世界前１０吧． 难道牛肉
: 还要控制价格? 你看现在哪些国家还在控制牛肉价格的？
: Forty butchers were arrested in 2010 for charging
: more than the permitted price for beef. Here’s AP: “The government says
: butchers can charge 17 bolivars — about $4 — for a kilogram of beef.
: Butchers say they have to pay 14 bolivars — about $3 — for the meat,
: leaving them no margin to cover the other costs of their business.”
| p**j
发帖数: 7063 | 22 所谓世界银行的数据，都是本国自己报的数据，世界银行没有办法跑你的国家去核实你
的数据。
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: 你真搞笑，那40个被抓的是违反了他们国家的法律，你在美国违法试一试，看看抓不抓
: 你？你是不是觉得美国不认可的法律就不是法律了？
: 物价控制在世界各国历史上很常见吧。美国、俄罗斯、法国、德国、日本还是中国，哪
: 个国家没有过？
: 对了阿根廷就在最近也在控制物价，你别胡扯他们也是社会主义国家
: http://en.mercopress.com/2012/10/02/argentina-moves-to-control-
| p**j
发帖数: 7063 | 23 所以如果有个法律规定说查韦斯坏话的立刻抓起来，你也认为理所当然了？
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: 你真搞笑，那40个被抓的是违反了他们国家的法律，你在美国违法试一试，看看抓不抓
: 你？你是不是觉得美国不认可的法律就不是法律了？
: 物价控制在世界各国历史上很常见吧。美国、俄罗斯、法国、德国、日本还是中国，哪
: 个国家没有过？
: 对了阿根廷就在最近也在控制物价，你别胡扯他们也是社会主义国家
: http://en.mercopress.com/2012/10/02/argentina-moves-to-control-
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 24 你真是傻逼啊， 我举那个例子是说明因为牛肉短缺, 所以委内瑞拉政府在控制牛肉价
格.
还历史上？ 我说的是现在，你说现在有哪个国家有那么多石油出口的还在控制牛肉价
格的？
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: 你真搞笑，那40个被抓的是违反了他们国家的法律，你在美国违法试一试，看看抓不抓
: 你？你是不是觉得美国不认可的法律就不是法律了？
: 物价控制在世界各国历史上很常见吧。美国、俄罗斯、法国、德国、日本还是中国，哪
: 个国家没有过？
: 对了阿根廷就在最近也在控制物价，你别胡扯他们也是社会主义国家
: http://en.mercopress.com/2012/10/02/argentina-moves-to-control-
| y**********a
发帖数: 824 | 25
You are biased and using the biased news as proof of Chavez as tyrant.
The reality is that Chavez enjoyed dominant popularity in Venezuela's
election and he is treated as a hero posthumously.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 你真是傻逼啊， 我举那个例子是说明因为牛肉短缺, 所以委内瑞拉政府在控制牛肉价
: 格.
: 还历史上？ 我说的是现在，你说现在有哪个国家有那么多石油出口的还在控制牛肉价
: 格的？
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 26 well, tell me whether that news about the butcher
is true or not. If it's true, why it's biased?
And what about the high crime rate? That's also biased?
Hitler once enjoyed dominant popularity in Germany also. So?
【在 y**********a 的大作中提到】
:
: You are biased and using the biased news as proof of Chavez as tyrant.
: The reality is that Chavez enjoyed dominant popularity in Venezuela's
: election and he is treated as a hero posthumously.
| G*******1
发帖数: 6411 | 27 mit上百的版面，惟有美新版主这么嚣张的骂，叹为观止！
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 你真是傻逼啊， 我举那个例子是说明因为牛肉短缺, 所以委内瑞拉政府在控制牛肉价
: 格.
: 还历史上？ 我说的是现在，你说现在有哪个国家有那么多石油出口的还在控制牛肉价
: 格的？
| b*******h
发帖数: 2585 | 28 我现在也越来越觉得这人精神有问题
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: mit上百的版面，惟有美新版主这么嚣张的骂，叹为观止！
| n****l
发帖数: 6652 | 29 你这个孩子属于典型的屁股决定立场，个人修养也不咋地。还是再修炼修炼吧。
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 你真是傻逼啊， 我举那个例子是说明因为牛肉短缺, 所以委内瑞拉政府在控制牛肉价
: 格.
: 还历史上？ 我说的是现在，你说现在有哪个国家有那么多石油出口的还在控制牛肉价
: 格的？
| p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 30 石油是石油，牛肉是牛肉，两者可以互相替换吗？
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 你真是傻逼啊， 我举那个例子是说明因为牛肉短缺, 所以委内瑞拉政府在控制牛肉价
: 格.
: 还历史上？ 我说的是现在，你说现在有哪个国家有那么多石油出口的还在控制牛肉价
: 格的？
| | | l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 31 还是那个问题：除了委内瑞拉，哪个国家有那么多石油出口的会控制牛肉价格的?
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: 石油是石油，牛肉是牛肉，两者可以互相替换吗？
| h*****i
发帖数: 9112 | 32 在美新版能看到很多军版都看不到的奇葩
【在 b*******h 的大作中提到】
: 我现在也越来越觉得这人精神有问题
| G*******1
发帖数: 6411 | 33 hehehe, 奇葩很多。
【在 h*****i 的大作中提到】
: 在美新版能看到很多军版都看不到的奇葩
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 34 呵呵， 欢迎这些同学光荣转进．
【在 G*******1 的大作中提到】
: hehehe, 奇葩很多。
| G*******1
发帖数: 6411 | 35 歇了吧。你智力不灵，思维僵硬，又喜欢蛮干。菌斑那些人才不屑跟你玩
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵， 欢迎这些同学光荣转进．
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