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全部话题 - 话题: drones
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c**i
发帖数: 6973
1
VOA Chinese, Sept 21, 2011.
http://www.voanews.com/chinese/news
/20110920-US-TAIWAN-JETS-130245723.html
(2) 廖漢原, 薄瑞光:軍售近60億美元. Central News Agency, Sept 21, 2011
http://www2.cna.com.tw/ShowNews
/WebNews_Detail.aspx?Type=FirstNews&ID=201109210001
("對於美國國務院資深官員首度主動提出台灣民眾赴美免簽證待遇計畫,薄瑞光強調,
軍售和簽證是兩回事,台灣很快就會有免簽待遇,象徵雙方關係更加穩固")
(3) John J Tkacik Jr, White House Bickering and Taiwan’s F-16s. Washington
Times, Sept 20, 2011
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/20
/white-house-bickering-and-taiwans-... 阅读全帖
c**i
发帖数: 6973
2
来自主题: Military版 - US Says Mulling Further Taiwan Arms Sales
(1) Jom Wolf, US Says Mulling Further Taiwan Arms Sales. Reuters, Oct 4,
2011 (1 hour ago).
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/04
/us-usa-taiwan-china-idUSTRE79369M20111004
Note: Gerald Connolly (D-Virginia)
(2) Kurt Campbell, Why Taiwan Matters, Part II. US Department of State, Oct
4, 2011
http://www.state.gov/p/eap/rls/rm/2011/10/174980.htm
(Testimony Before the House Foreign Affairs Committee)
My comment:
(a) I google for Part I and the only item returned is:
"Why Taiwan Matters, Part I: ... 阅读全帖
O*******d
发帖数: 20343
3
来自主题: Military版 - 伊朗威武
美国军方很会说话啊。 tg要学着点。
U.S. official says no sign Iran shot down drone
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/04/us-iran-usa-drone-idU
g*****1
发帖数: 666
4
来自主题: Military版 - 章家敦再賭中共2012垮
常家蹲还是重复他的念咒一般的老生常谈,根本不值一提。
可读是读者的评论。
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/12/29/the_coming_col
MESS_MEDIA
9:18 PM ET
December 29, 2011
Yeah, I was wrong when I
Yeah, I was wrong when I predicted that the world would end on May 21, 2011.
It should end on October 21.
-Harold Camping
REPLY
JOESMITHII
2:44 AM ET
December 30, 2011
I guess, sooner or later,
I guess, sooner or later, Gordon will get used to admitting wrong
predictions. Fortunately, 2012 is around the corner, we don't need to wa... 阅读全帖
M*****8
发帖数: 17722
5
来自主题: Military版 - Ron Paul vote raises alarm
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/NA06Dj02.html
Ron Paul vote raises alarm
By Jim Lobe
WASHINGTON - Texas Representative Ron Paul, who 24 years ago performed
dismally as the standard-bearer of the Libertarian Party, has begun making
waves in the 2012 presidential campaign, to the extreme discomfort of neo-
conservatives and aggressive nationalists who dominate the foreign policy
rosters of most of his Republican rivals.
While his third-place finish in Tuesday's Iowa caucuses disappoint... 阅读全帖
W*******n
发帖数: 4140
6
来自主题: Military版 - Joke: Presidential Debate 2012, Act III
Joke: Presidential Debate 2012, Act III
10/22/2012
By Limin Wang
In the evening of October 16, 2012, at the Smack Complex of Hofstra
University on Long Island, New York, President Obama and former governor
Romney had the second finger-to-finger presidential debate. Candy Growly
tried her hardest to moderate them.
Outside the debate building, large swarms of people had decided on their own
to join the show. Some said that they wanted to bring their own tough
questions. Some said that they wanted ... 阅读全帖
J*****l
发帖数: 252
7
来自主题: Military版 - 无人机送报纸
无人机送报纸
Drones Will Soon Deliver Your Newspaper In The French Province Of Auvergne
http://www.businessinsider.com/drones-delivering-newspapers-201
c*******2
发帖数: 617
8
来自主题: Military版 - 杀人的动机: 三年前, 俄罗斯
三年前, 上高中的16岁的Dzhokhar Tsarnaev被要求写一篇有关他的激情‘热情’爱好
‘酷爱的文章,他因此求教于美国大学教授Brian Glyn Williams。
“He wanted to know more about his Chechen roots,” Mr. Williams recalled.
“He wanted to know more about Russia’s genocidal war on the Chechen people
.”
美国教授热情回信,详细提供了所谓俄罗斯对车臣人民的"种族屠杀“。 The
professor sent him material covering Stalin’s 1944 deportation of the
Chechens to Central Asia, in which an estimated 30 percent of them died, and
the two brutal wars that Russia waged against Chechen separatists in the
199... 阅读全帖
c*******2
发帖数: 617
9
来自主题: Military版 - 杀人的动机: 三年前, 俄罗斯
全球圣战, 仇恨就指向美国了。
Calling himself “a Muslim soldier,” Mr. Shahzad denounced the wars in
Afghanistan and Iraq and drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen. The drones, he
said, “kill women, children, they kill everybody.”
“It’s a war, and in war, they kill people,” he added. “They’re killing
all Muslims.”
l*********u
发帖数: 19053
10
老外有时很难令人理解。经常在电视上看到,一大群警察消防员,爱心泛滥,救猫救狗
。用
drone发导弹,误杀平民,可美国民众还是支持用drone发导弹。。。

咪。
g**1
发帖数: 10330
11
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2486809/Double-Down-Gam
'I'm really good at killing people': New book claims President Obama bragged
to aides about using drone strikes
Claim comes from new book 'Double Down: Game Change 2012' about Obama's re-
election campaign
Obama Administration has not commented on the report
Remark was made while discussing drone strikes with aides
President won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2486809/Double-Down-Game... 阅读全帖
w*********r
发帖数: 42116
12
据说伊朗最近展示了可以发生导弹的无人机。
Iran unveils ‘biggest’ attack drone with ‘2,000 kilometer range’
http://rt.com/news/iran-biggest-attack-drone-921/
x******g
发帖数: 33885
13
来自主题: Military版 - 华盛顿邮报嘲笑邓产党被打脸
关键词:a strong joint response by the United States and Japan.
读:日美联合起来打邓产党的脸。
关键词:It provided Washington with a perfect opportunity to reassure its
Asian allies that it remains committed to maintaining stability in the Asia-
Pacific region.
读:这个事件给了美帝一个机会去提醒东南亚各国,美帝仍是大哥大霸主。
关键词:the United States called China’s bluff by sending two warplanes
into the zone Tuesday, and Beijing’s response was muted.
读:美帝决定打邓产党的脸,啪啪啪,一轮抽送之后,邓产党响屁都不敢放一个。
好吧,不陪太子了,自己读下去吧:
China's move to establish air defense zone appea... 阅读全帖
d**********r
发帖数: 24123
14
这个比 AR.Drone 要贵不少。
好处:个人感觉这个稳定一些,飞得久一些。不过原因可能就是因为这个电池,马达,
重量都比AR.Drone 要大
如果这个稳定器是买的话。那技术含量还真不高。
比如毛子这个Mod 就厉害得多(1:49 起看):
t*****g
发帖数: 6101
15
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, General Caslen, for that
introduction. To General Trainor and General Clarke, the faculty and staff
at West Point, you have been outstanding stewards of this proud institution
and outstanding mentors for the newest officers in the United States Army. I
'd like to acknowledge the Army's leadership, General McHugh -- Secretary
McHugh, General Odierno, as well as Senator Jack Reed who is here and a
proud graduate of West Point himself.
To the class of 201... 阅读全帖
b********n
发帖数: 38600
16
Where are the drones? Why don't I see any drones????
c*****g
发帖数: 21627
17
你丫就是一无知小将,好好读读大牛的文章
Shenzhen trip report - visiting the world's manufacturing ecosystem »
Sep 01, 2014 - 20:04 UTC »
Last year, a group of Media Lab students visited Shenzhen with, bunnie, an
old friend and my hardware guru. He's probably best known for hacking the
Xbox, the chumby, an open source networked hardware appliance, and for
helping so many people with their hardware, firmware and software designs.
bunnie is "our man in Shenzhen" and understands the ecosystem of suppliers
and... 阅读全帖
c*****g
发帖数: 21627
18
给你看看MIT最知名的院长的blog :
Shenzhen trip report - visiting the world's manufacturing ecosystem »
Sep 01, 2014 - 20:04 UTC »
Last year, a group of Media Lab students visited Shenzhen with, bunnie, an
old friend and my hardware guru. He's probably best known for hacking the
Xbox, the chumby, an open source networked hardware appliance, and for
helping so many people with their hardware, firmware and software designs.
bunnie is "our man in Shenzhen" and understands the ecosystem of suppliers
an... 阅读全帖
b********n
发帖数: 38600
19
Was the Middle East better off with its dictators?
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/27/opinions/yemen-mideast-dictat
(CNN)Was the Middle East better off under dictatorships? It is certainly
tempting to think so when one looks at conflicts in the region today, from
Yemen to Libya to Syria.
Those three countries have followed different trajectories since the start
of the Arab Spring in 2011, but what they have in common now is instability
that is not likely to be overcome in the short term.
While th... 阅读全帖
k****s
发帖数: 1209
20
来自主题: Military版 - 航公现身,航母撤退
March 23, 2015
Terrified US Aircraft Carrier Flees From Russian Subs To UK Safety
By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers
The Naval Surface Forces (NSF) of the Ministry of Defense (MoD) are
reporting today that three nuclear-powered Akula-class submarines belonging
to the 24th Submarine Division of the Northern Fleet (NF) successfully “war
-gamed” the American aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt [photo 2nd
left] causing it to “flee in terror” towards the waters off the Ha... 阅读全帖
b********n
发帖数: 38600
21
American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January
Drone strike kills pair in Pakistan, U.S. officials say; White House orders
review of incident
http://www.wsj.com/articles/american-italian-hostages-killed-in
o**********e
发帖数: 18403
22
有道理。 同意我们应该造DRONE,AI。
可是弱弱问:
我们中美为什么要为了欺师灭祖成习惯的”虫族“而
军备竞赛呢?
我们老中没有法西斯毁灭世界的
虫族传统,倒是有忠孝仁义礼智信的
传统。 即使造DRONE,AI,也不应该是来袭击
人类的。
H**O
发帖数: 780
23
Iraq shows off airstrike by new Chinese-made combat drone (VIDEO)
https://www.rt.com/news/318892-chinese-drone-iraq-airstrike/
s********i
发帖数: 17328
24
美国的效率不在人,在机器。举个简单的例子,剥玉米,可以用手去剥,用工具去剥,
用机器去剥,你人工再便宜效率再高,也比不过一个最懒得工人按一下机器的按钮。
在举个例子,比如drone delivery实现了,你走街串巷的快递员工再勤快,也比不上
drone把货物往你家院子里一扔。
g**1
发帖数: 10330
25
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fl-defense-drone-chin
Feds charge woman in S. Fla. plot to broker $50M drone to China
g**1
发帖数: 10330
26
http://www.popsci.com/watch-nigerias-first-confirmed-drone-stri
WATCH NIGERIA'S FIRST CONFIRMED DRONE STRIKE -- AGAINST BOKO HARAM
http://youtu.be/5icQ9ASL8ws
b********n
发帖数: 38600
27
Testing the Rule of Law in the South China Sea
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/opinion/testing-the-rule-of-law-in-the-south-china-sea.html
llc CA 6 hours ago
The USA failing to ratify UNCLOS while telling other countries to abide by
UNCLOS tell the world a lot about its approach to international law.
Reply 35Recommend
ERIC WAYNE 6 hours ago
How ironic it is for the US to lecture China to observe the "Law of the Sea"
when it still refuses to sign the Treaty, and has a long history of
vehemently... 阅读全帖
b****a
发帖数: 4465
28
【腾讯科技编者按】《福布斯》网站日前发表文章,介绍了美国无人机公司3D
Robotics失败的前因后果。不到两年之前,这家公司的前景还一片光明,但现在它已经
彻底退出了无人机制造领域,在与中国无人机厂商大疆创新的竞争中败下阵来,沦为一
家挣扎求生的软件公司。以下为原文内容:
去年3月晴朗的一天,克里斯·安德森(Chris Anderson)带着美国记者赴加州伯克利
3D Robotics总部的户外场地,谈论飞行机器人的未来。
3D Robotics当时是北美最大的消费级无人机制造商,而安德森是《连线》杂志的前主
编,也是《纽约时报》畅销书《长尾理论》的作者。
他自信地对记者说,无人机市场的规模可达数十亿美元级别,3D Robotics已经做好了
抓住这个机会的准备。
如今,无人机或许仍然是一种极富价值的消费级技术,就像个人计算机或智能手机,但
3D Robotics的前景却已经变得混浊而黯淡。过去12个月里,该公司已经从美国无人机
初创领域的领军者沦落到挣扎求生的地步。3D Robotics已经裁员150余人,烧钱烧掉差
不多1亿美元,还彻底转变了经营策略,这一切都是不良的管理、失败的... 阅读全帖

发帖数: 1
29
来自主题: Military版 - 狙击枪的射速很重要
sniper rifle should be connected with a drone.
once trigger is pulled, the drone will fire a missile to kill the target.
pay only 4.99 and you can get an upgraded version, pulling 2nd trigger will
call in a blanket bombing.
i***a
发帖数: 4718
30
床铺被吓尿了没。
https://www.yahoo.com/news/pentagon-confirms-russias-thermonuclear-submarine
-152420776.html
Pentagon Confirms Russia's Thermonuclear Submarine Bomb Is Real
The Pentagon has confirmed that a new Russian nuclear delivery drone is real
. The undersea drone, which carries an enormous nuclear warhead to destroy
coastal cities and military bases, was tested late last month. The test was
leaked by unnamed sources to The Washington Free Beacon.
Russia calls the system "Ocean Multipurpose Syste... 阅读全帖
r*****2
发帖数: 2682
31
China's Navy seizes American underwater drone in South China Sea
A Chinese Navy warship has seized an underwater drone deployed by an
American oceanographic vessel in international waters in the South China Sea
, triggering a former demarche from the United States and a demand for its
return, a U.S. defense official told Reuters on Friday.
The incident -- the first of its kind in recent memory -- took place on Dec.
15 northwest of Subic Bay just as the USNS Bowditch, an oceanographic
survey ship... 阅读全帖
b*****d
发帖数: 61690
32
来自主题: Military版 - 天朝捞了一个美帝水下无人机
WASHINGTON — A Chinese warship seized a U.S. Navy unmanned underwater
glider that was collecting unclassified scientific data in the South China
Sea, and the U.S. is demanding its return, the Pentagon said Friday.
Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a Pentagon spokesman, said that the U.S. has issued a
formal diplomatic complaint over Thursday's incident, but he was not aware
of any response yet. The Chinese Embassy said it had no immediate comment.
According to Davis, the USNS Bowditch, a civilian U.S. Navy... 阅读全帖
w*p
发帖数: 16484
33
我偷渡来的,不懂英文。
就算是跟踪美侦查船,要在水下捞到underwater drone比在天上打下一个drone,我觉
得难多了。
B********n
发帖数: 7009
34
美舰离drone只有500米的距离,drone已经浮出水面不工作等待打捞了,没料到我军眼
明手快,抢先一步。
D**s
发帖数: 6361
35
[新闻翻译]五角大楼:中国海军偷走美国商用水下无人机
Pentagon: Chinese Navy Stole U.S. Underwater Drone
五角大楼:中国海军偷走美国水下无人机
by COURTNEY KUBE
A Chinese Navy ship stole a U.S. Navy unmanned underwater vehicle — a type
of drone — from international waters in the South China on Thursday,
according to the Pentagon.
据五角大楼所说,一艘中国海军舰艇周四在中国南海国际水域偷走了美国海军的无人水
下航行器——无人机的一种。
Two U.S. Navy Ocean Glider Unmanned Underwater Vehicle were collecting data
during what the Pentagon called a routine survey approximately 50 nautical
miles north... 阅读全帖
y***r
发帖数: 16594
36
来自主题: Military版 - 我是不是多虑了?
trump老拿中国说事,前几天说台湾,这次又说这个drone。
开战感觉可能性不大,但老说中国这不对,那不好,是敌人。
结果会不会影响到我们美籍华人的生活,以后邻居和同事会不会因此敌视和偏见我们?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/810121703288410112
China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters -
rips it out of water and takes it to China in unprecedented act.
G*********e
发帖数: 2091
37
来自主题: Military版 - 我是不是多虑了?
歪脖,美国援台志愿军和中国打一场局部战争,有那些投资机会?在古板最佩服你。有
空说说?
[在 yyber (忍而不发) 的大作中提到:]
:trump老拿中国说事,前几天说台湾,这次又说这个drone。
:开战感觉可能性不大,但老说中国这不对,那不好,是敌人。
:结果会不会影响到我们美籍华人的生活,以后邻居和同事会不会因此敌视和偏见我们?
:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/810121703288410112
:China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters -
:rips it out of water and takes it to China in unprecedented act.
R*********j
发帖数: 1957
38
来自主题: Military版 - 我是不是多虑了?
那是政治游戏。真正开战的可能性非常小。很多人也只是调侃调侃。
不用担心受啥影响,一般美国人对中国了解不多,不存在什么敌视问题。
[在 yyber (忍而不发) 的大作中提到:]
:trump老拿中国说事,前几天说台湾,这次又说这个drone。
:开战感觉可能性不大,但老说中国这不对,那不好,是敌人。
:结果会不会影响到我们美籍华人的生活,以后邻居和同事会不会因此敌视和偏见我们?
:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/810121703288410112
:China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters -
:rips it out of water and takes it to China in unprecedented act.
x******h
发帖数: 13678
m******r
发帖数: 485
40
New Delhi wants to buy US drones to monitor China in the Indian Ocean
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/27/india-news-modi-wants-naval-drones-to-watch-
china-in-indian-ocean.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/28/chinese-company-cloned-washington-post-
website.html
让阿三黑土鳖就是政治正确,华人黑中国就有饭吃。你们还在讨论为什么阿三在美国吃
香,这就是原因。一直这样黑下去连华人都觉得土鳖和土鳖国来的人讨厌。你语言再好
,也是个敌国来的,用你信任你就是政治不正确。阿三国现在是跟班,就是美鳖喜欢的
奴才。
t****r
发帖数: 1606
c****h
发帖数: 4968
42
来自主题: Military版 - 无人机部门几百号人全砍掉了
gopro去年裁了三次,但都不是drone部门。创建者Nick Woodman还说Karma卖的好,是
1000元价位中卖的第二好的(大疆的Mavic占了这个价位80%以上的份额)。这次最新一波
300人大裁员就是针对drone部门。看了当年雄心勃勃要和大疆一争高下的karma要停产
了。
不过真心觉得Gorpro太黑了,东西是不错,但是一天小小的action camera怎么就敢卖
400-600美元?技术上也没有什么过人之处。有人做过测评,小米100-200美元的Yi
Camera和Gopro当年的旗舰Hero 5在图像上没有特别大的差别,或者说差别不足以弥补
300-400块的差价。感觉这就是美国所谓Tech公司的通病:卖的是idea和逼格,硬件技
术上没有任何创新。一旦idea被人复制,一堆的中国小企业会立即对这些Tech公司产生
巨大冲击。
c****h
发帖数: 4968
43
来自主题: Military版 - 主要是看后面上千个评论
同一个网站上的另一篇关于中国产品的文章。一个是中国土生土长的品牌,一个是当年
美国独角兽里的当红炸子鸡,人家发一个youtube video都能有百万流量……留言观点
截然不同。随便去一个无人机论坛,或者Youtube评论区就会发现,DJI的美国粉有多少
。事实证明,嘴上发泄谁都会,但是抢夺市场还是靠质量。这篇文章也指出了美国所谓
“科技公司”的最大弱点:都tmd是一群坐在弯区的搞software,炒idea的人,每一个能
造东西,最后还得去深圳找生产厂家!
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/11/16871848/gopro-drone-failure-3dr-dji-
american-market
This week, Woodman echoed that sentiment. “In the drone space specifically
to be competitive, and make money doing it, I think a company would need to
be vertically integrated,” h... 阅读全帖
s******n
发帖数: 518
44
【 以下文字转载自 History 讨论区 】
发信人: shaodian (有熊), 信区: History
标 题: ZZ 转基因玉米致癌非谣言 团队获"真相揭秘者"奖
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Feb 15 20:44:19 2018, 美东)
发布日期:2015-10-20 来源:转基因观察 浏览次数:1650
试验团队获得国际“真相揭秘者”奖
文| 转基因观察
还记得那个著名的转基因试验吗?试验小白鼠身上长满了肿瘤。央视曾经报道过
,无数人看过视频,但转基因方多次宣称这是谣言。农业部也多次组织专家否认这个试
验的真实性。事实真相究竟如何?最新情况如何?让我们还是先回顾下这个试验的漫长
争议过程吧。
2012年9月,法国凯恩大学塞拉利尼教授在《食品与化学毒物学》科学杂志上发
表一篇论文《农达(草甘膦)除草剂和抗农达(草甘膦)转基因玉米的长期毒性》,报
告引用转基因玉米NK603进行大鼠两年饲喂研究,引起大鼠产生肿瘤。
报道经央视新闻栏目报道后引起巨大的关注,支持方和反对方形成两大阵营,其
中转基因专家、方舟子、果壳网第一时... 阅读全帖
t**x
发帖数: 20965
45
来自主题: Military版 - 五角大楼的头脑还是很清楚的
In a major breakthrough, China has unveiled a formidable new high-altitude
drone that could give its military a significant advantage.
Designed to operate in “near space,” 12.5 miles above sea level or higher,
China’s new drones can break through air defenses, avoid radar detection,
and collect valuable intelligence while staying well beyond the range of
anti-aircraft fire.
b********n
发帖数: 38600
46
来自主题: Military版 - 劈柴是不是该背黑锅
In Letter to CEO, 1000s of Google Employees Revolt Against Military Drone
Project
http://theantimedia.com/google-employees-letter-military-drone/
b********n
发帖数: 38600
47
来自主题: Military版 - 无标题
Russia has figured out how to jam U.S. drones in Syria, officials say
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/russia-has-figured-out-how-jam-u-s-
drones-syria-n863931
b********n
发帖数: 38600
48
Startling Drone Footage Of Tesla's Model 3 "Tent" Reveals "The Stone Age Of
Auto Manufacturing"
https://twitter.com/skabooshka/status/1012000014376230913?ref_src=twsrc%
5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fnews%2F2018-06-27%
2Fstartling-drone-footage-teslas-model-3-tent-reveals-stone-age-auto-
manufacturing
n********g
发帖数: 6504
49
我总结几个要点:
1、Drone螺旋桨需要重新设计,使用高海拔桨型,提高在稀薄空气中的升力。
2、Drone载重量要大。如3500美刀的,空重6公斤,最大升力48公斤,载重30公斤,总
重36公斤的如果不改变螺旋桨,在珠峰顶最大升力跌为16公斤,载重6公斤。储备升力
只有4公斤。
这储备升力就是爬升及在风中稳住的动力源泉。
载重6公斤其实已经很实用。可以送氧气乃至送帐篷、睡袋了。
W*****B
发帖数: 4796
50
来自主题: Military版 - 马杜罗遇刺了
被无人机刺杀,侥幸逃生
Venezuela President Maduro 'survives drone attack'
Venezuelan officials say explosive drones went off as President Nicolás
Maduro was giving a live televised speech in Caracas, but he is unharmed.
Communications Minister Jorge Rodriguez said this was an attempt on Mr
Maduro's life, and seven soldiers were injured.
Mr Maduro was seen speaking at an outdoor military event when he and others
suddenly looked upwards - startled. The audio then went.
Dozens of soldiers were seen running aw... 阅读全帖
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