s********n
发帖数: 15 | 1 呵呵，现在的环境的确容易导致“过度指责”。从学校来看当然你没说错。但重点应当
是：是否要教育政策指定者和投资者，让他们不要高估这些模型。他们不需要明白，只
需要被善意的提醒。
发信人: prescient (星辰大海), 信区: Economics
标 题: Re: What you don't learn at school about the economy
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sat Nov 1 11:12:06 2008), 转信
问题是，对于那些本科生，你不教他们adamn smith那一套，难道教这20年来econ发展
出的那些非常复杂的model么？就跟在物理上，尽管我们知道经典力学的应用范围是有
限制的，但是在中学里面，我们仍然教授经典力学是一样的。任何教学都是由循序渐进
的过程的，只有当你了解了neo claasical econ那一套以后，你才能明白为什么说这样
的理论是有问题的。 |
|
G*****m
发帖数: 222 | 2 It's never late. I transfered to econ when 30, and my professor finished his
econ phd after 40. |
|
p****l
发帖数: 830 | 3 why econ phd can get a faculty position in business school... make no sense.
never seen a econ people in biz school of states. |
|
f********r
发帖数: 8 | 4 感觉每年毕业的中国学生应该不止80人。 有ECON PhD Program 的美国大学应该在100
所以上(美国50州+DC， 每州至少平均有两所大学有Econ PhD) 。 其实我感觉加大的9
个分校每年应该有15个以上的中国学生毕业(也许今年会少一些)。
如果再算上部分商学院和农经系的PhD 和部分台湾学生， 竞争应该还是满厉害的。 |
|
s***r
发帖数: 1121 | 5 Why not try top finance program as well?
Most returners are from ECON now. But if you get a PHD in finance, you can
either stay at US or go back to China.
So far, most Chinese schools are hiring ECON grads. Soon this trend will
change. |
|
d*******n
发帖数: 216 | 6 从来没有听说过有Economy and Society这么一个杂志啊.
Pacific Econ Review, China Economic Review 竟然和 J of Math Econ, Economic
Theory 一起啊.
看过几个排民,Economic Journal都挺高的,纳闷怎么从来没有度过那里的文章呢?
AEA 下面的那四个新Journals 被忘了...
也比较纳闷咋他们那么看中Stat Journals. 不过不同意楼上说的统计杂志不只钱,我觉得技术性强,要x数理工地强的活咱土博士就是有comparative advantage,他们能在上发,是好事. 为什么说的好象他们能在上面发表文章,就indicate the quality of the journal is low 一样. |
|
z*****r
发帖数: 967 | 7 我说的是增大对有钱人的税收，特别是基于他们原有财富的投资和资产所得税。来补贴
穷人，（通过政府创造工作机会）。
因为我的假设是有钱人大部分的收入并不是通过他们的劳动所得，而是基于他们原有的
社会经济地位的所得。
这和我刚开始说的均贫富没有矛盾吧？
不知道为啥一定要让我承认什么change claim而且还要特意说expression error来嘲弄
。呵呵，让我感觉有点好像既蔑视又很想挑出我的错误以证明我的观点一钱不值的倾向
。希望我是以小人之心度君子之腹吧。当然你陪我说了这么久，俺也很感激了。我知道
这对你们已经很不容易了。
但是可以看出来版上的econ phd牛牛们是比较瞧不起我们这种非econ phd的人。让我想
起来在国内参加过的几次学术会议里碰到过的几个著名经济学家，国内学界的霸主，基
本上他们的眼睛都是朝天花板看的（literally），呵呵。当然在我做了反响不错的报告
后，听过的似乎还回复了正常，愿意亲切的和我这种小辈说说话，互相介绍介绍。
看来版上的牛牛们有成为大牛的倾向啊。让人佩服-起码学霸气势已经在那儿了嘛。呵呵 |
|
p****e
发帖数: 275 | 8 It doesn't prove Econ is not fake. It's about money not about which one makes
more sense. If "跳大神 " could bring you big money, you could find lots of
"CS转跳大神经验谈", or "Econ转跳大神经验谈" |
|
e***t
发帖数: 14386 | 9 很简单，觉得econ是joke的和来上econ课的不是一拨人
to
do? |
|
b*******8
发帖数: 20 | 10 我想zuyeye说的民科主要是指没有事实论据缺喜欢抛出惊人结论的人，而这些结论又往
往违背了经济学最基本的一些原理（以致任何规范的经济学训练的人都不会犯这样的错
误）。在缺乏相关事实数据的支持下，我们只能觉得他错了。所以称为民科。
我们在回帖时根本就不知道谁有econ phd，谁没有。所以我们只是根据他说的是不是
make sense（要么是附和经济学里普世的一些原则，如果质疑一些原则，则要提出相关
依据）来判断民科什么的，而不是看你的学位。
如果有人有个结论，而且按经济学的标准属于有事实依据，我们当然就服气了，不管你
有没有econ phd。
当然有人又会说讲事实摆数据为什么要按经济学的标准？为什么不能用我自己的标准？
因为1万个人有1万个标准，如果你坚持用你自己的标准还是难以说服别人。必须得找一
个公用的标准来说服其他人。一个idea真正有用是当你说服别人也信的时候。而不是自
己觉得是个宝而别人觉得是trash的时候。 |
|
e***t
发帖数: 14386 | 11 印象里大部分数学phd转econ或者研究econ的都是micro方向的
对econometricks是毫不关心吧，应该也不怎么懂
再说有了top school数学phd就不算是“经济民科”了？赤裸裸的歧视啊 |
|
A*******r
发帖数: 768 | 12 应用数学phd也算数学phd的话，还是有搞econometricks的
印象里大部分数学phd转econ或者研究econ的都是micro方向的
对econometricks是毫不关心吧，应该也不怎么懂
再说有了top school数学phd就不算是“经济民科”了？赤裸裸的歧视啊 |
|
g******h
发帖数: 369 | 13 I agree with lz that domestic master programs are purely trash.
In theory, domestic master programs should do some good:
1. Prepare students with some math. Domestic undergraduate econ education is terrible--it does not matter in the long run, as lz argues, but it is terrible. Master program can let graduates know what on earth econ is, and then self select.
2. Train students with statistical skills/softwares, which are useful in the private sector, given that they self select out of academia |
|
kx
发帖数: 16384 | 14 转自匿名区
Dear All, you are very appreciated if you can provide me some suggestions
about
my offer choice.
I apply to the Phd Programs in the US. And only have two offers now:
Econ@PSU
Political Econ@Princeton (politics track)
I think the two offers are both very good.(Both fellowships are relatively
generous.) However the problem is that I'm not sure which one suits for me
the
most.
Princeton might be a better choice in terms of its famous reputation.
Nevertheless the "time consistency" problem hap |
|
f**********g
发帖数: 107 | 15 我有一篇paper。问题和结论都比较有趣（referee的话，投了一个偏理论的journal被
reject了），但证明的部分没有什么自己的high theory，引用了统计和数学的一些定
理，并举了一些例子（证反部分）就证出来了。referee认为：首先该journal喜欢理论
（game theory等）玩的比较深的，我的paper主要是引用别人的，更像统计或数学的
paper；其次可以削减篇幅，也可以搞成notes的形式，可能比较易于发表。
想问一下这类paper适合往什么journal投，如果改成简短的note的形式又可以往哪投呢
。我自己不是经济专业的，coauthor的professor是经济学家，可惜前不久去世了。我
本来主要负责的是technical part。这个professor去世前本想发review of econ
studies，但现在我感觉可能econ letters这种更合适一点。不知大家什么意见。 |
|
d*******n
发帖数: 216 | 16 AEJ (Micro):80% within 2 months, 100% within 3 months (at least that's the
target).
Econometrica: 4-5 months.
QJE: 60-90 days if not desk-rejected.
Review of Econ&Stat: 3-4 months if not desk rejected (which accounts for
about 30-40% of the submissions.)
J of Business & Econ Stat: 4 months.
The above is from this year's econometric society special panel discussion "
Graduate Students meet the editors." |
|
w*****t
发帖数: 187 | 17 acct phd requries far less math than econ phd
try acct dirrectly. never bother econ, which is too difficult to graduate
and find a job. |
|
h*****n
发帖数: 924 | 18 I do not think there are indeed arts-oriented phd program in econ. in fact,
the econ training in Japan must be very decent.
do not be afraid of maths. levitt claims he is bad at maths. her grades clea
rly suggest that she is fine.
her preference may change in the future, so just apply for good phd programs
and ignore the preference at this moment. |
|
y*****n
发帖数: 5016 | 19 well, i would rather say "postions that econ phd can potentially try to fit"
rather than "postions suitable for econ phd"
sorry for being picky about your words -- because words do speak your mind
more or less.
in general, i will list two big catergories:
1. statistic analysis (including data analysis as the low end and predictive
modeling as the high end), which i am more familiar with.
to fit this type of jobs, you should be good in SAS and econometrics/
statisitics. you will be competing with |
|
l**********e
发帖数: 119 | 20 I am in Finance, not Econ. I don't know much about the job market of Econ. But my gut feeling is that ur friend told u the
right thing. Ur career goal should be faculty in small teaching school or
industry. Econometrics will lead u to both. |
|
l***i
发帖数: 204 | 21 econ master and econ phd 完全地不一样 |
|
t*******y
发帖数: 11968 | 22 我现在申请学校, 条件不好也不算差. top 10 econ 进不去, 但是, 20左右的学校还是
有机会的. 另外我咨询了一些老师, 说TOP的ARE在Davis, Maryland还有很有希望的.
如果以后是打算谋求教职, 请问是应该申请20名左右的econ, 还是申请top5的ARE对将来更有利? 谢谢 |
|
d*****g
发帖数: 357 | 23 Chicago has a very different model when it comes to their econ programs, the
ones who actually graduate are okay. I think Stanford aims for 25 students
per year, which is comparable to the other top 5. Business school PhD
programs are much smaller, only 3-5 people per class for each field, but if
you don't want to do any of those fields, or you are simply not sure, then
the Econ department would make more sense.
my
,
top
worry |
|
d*****g
发帖数: 357 | 24 B-school professors get paid more than econ professors on average (with
plenty of exceptions of course), but the difference isn't too big (no more
than 50K difference). Of course, the academic job isn't where the money is
and most people applying to PhD in either Econ of B-school aren't in it for
the money, but for their interest in the topic. My impression was that this
applied to all PhD fields, but clearly many students from China think very
differently. My class started with 17 people, now w |
|
m*****n
发帖数: 25 | 25 A former econ student from a top 20 schools (who is now enrolled in a
business school Phd) told me that he was surprised that the new assistant
professor at his school gets only about $75k-80k. He wanted to become a
faculty but the competition for econ faculty is very high, so he took the
calculated risk to switch.
Two students in our department who will graduate next year both got faculty
offers $145k to $150k for 9-month salary plus 2/9 of that salary for summer
supports. For finance fields, t |
|
B******e
发帖数: 16928 | 26 运气也很重要，不客气地说一句，我如果有楼主那样的机会在Chicago读本科我想我未
必会比楼主差，我就这样当年也拿了top 10的econ phd offer，不过我还是去了
business school，所以我要是去Chicago读本科我想top 5的econ PhD offer不成问题
。 |
|
z****e
发帖数: 438 | 27 I don't think it is an outlier to make more than 100k for an econ phd out of
top 20 programs. Of course, finance phds make much more and the market for
finance phds is also less competitive. But it is more difficult to get in
top finance departments than top econ departments. |
|
s***r
发帖数: 1121 | 28
The first one. PhD in econ of U. of Rocherster is NOT its Simon school. The
econ placement is not good. pls check its website.
烂校phd in finance 去工业界能干啥？能进投行或者hedge fund吗？
Why always think about 投行或者hedge fund? for a 烂校phd in finance, if you
get a teaching school AP, the salary is still very nice (for 9 month).
Besides, the life is flexible and the life is yours. Check the buffalo website, you will see its finance placement is much better. |
|
d*****g
发帖数: 357 | 29 I'm actually not so sure. Since for Econ PhD students at Stanford, the final
grade for that sequence won't be entered until after the comp, and your
comp grade will become your course grade. For non Econ PhD students, many
end up taking 202N, is that what you are taking? There are a few GSB people
and undergrads taking 202 every year but won't take the comp, and I have no
idea how their grade will be determined. Feel free to e-mail me in the
future for specific questions like this one. Good luc... 阅读全帖 |
|
x****i
发帖数: 400 | 30 Economics是很客观的学科，social science，名校里有很文科化的学生，也有非常数
理的。我以前念书的学校本科好,算teaching school，economic只有本科，但我当时在
的时候老师都是美国top econ 毕业的，很多人就是做那种美国社会研究。一些老师我
当学生都觉得lecture质量很差，体现他们的research不深入。我一个老师，U of
Chicago毕业的，上课推倒公式一踏糊涂。问问题从来都说不清楚。其实美国学生反映
也不好，一次他说给一年级的学生把final都cancel了还得了个worest evaluation。可
他照样在American Econ Review上发paper，接受Good Morning American的采访，因为
做的东西是health economics， 简单而且是美国自己擅长的。但这样的水平也就是来
我们这里，教本科生，做什么方向的不都是教，他去申请任何research school，估计
都够呛。
LZ说的“牛校毕业生不一定都强”没错呀。。10名以后学校的好学生肯定比牛校的差生
好吧。100名后的学校招fa... 阅读全帖 |
|
x****i
发帖数: 400 | 31 是来我们学校以后写的，因为离PHD毕业有5-6年以上了。
另一个给我上过本科微观经济学的AP也是U of Chicago毕业的，后来也发了AER。他教书很不错，很有名校的风范。我们学校就只有Econ本科，名校毕业的是一片。不是来的就是最差的，但要是再差的学校肯定来不了。
不过他们现在都tenure了。他们是美国人，他们发AER的topic，中国人是不好做的，看着简单，但你没有那个connection，至少数据拿不到。
美国人很喜欢念Econ Phd，毕业的人数也很多吧。里面方向不一样，差别很大的。
AER |
|
j*****e
发帖数: 333 | 32 有趣，我还没听说过哪个top 10 econ里的博士期间研究做的好的学生毕业跑去
teaching school的，一般teaching school是以teaching为主的，呵呵
教书很不错，很有名校的风范。我们学校就只有Econ本科，名校毕业的是一片。不是来
的就是最差的，但要是再差的学校肯定来不了。
看着简单，但你没有那个connection，至少数据拿不到。 |
|
n*****t
发帖数: 1015 | 33 maybe you are not so familiar with the mechanism of job market yet. Finance people are very few in the phd program so that professors pay much more attention to almost everyone which monitor students' research quality a lot. Economics people are much much more than finance people, so that usually professors pay attention to mainly the good ones and recommend good ones on the job market. Finance people get much more recommendition/push from their professors on average than economic regular stude... 阅读全帖 |
|
n*****t
发帖数: 1015 | 34 obviously you misunderstood. I just tried to explain to those who trash
finance people that they were biased. Did you see I said Econ people are all
worse than finance people? My explanation on job searching of finance
people did not trash econ people's quality either. so, please get the fact
straight.
same, |
|
f***5
发帖数: 1569 | 35 That is the reason why ECON guy are jealous so they bullshit on FIN guys
Econ
10 finance programs except maybe Stanford GSB, HBS, and Chicago Booth. |
|
z****e
发帖数: 438 | 36 The market for econ phds has strong seasonality and is quite different from
other markets. The job posts can give you some ideas about what types of job
are available for econ phds in the industrial sector. I think that's what
you are asking for in your post, isn't it? |
|
f*******s
发帖数: 57 | 37 econ journal我一点都不懂，大概在econ算什么样的journal? 多谢 |
|
G****n
发帖数: 145 | 38 Andrei Shleifer and Dimitri Acemoglu both got Clark Medal. About 80% of
clark medalists went on to win the Noble Prize. These guys are the main
stream big shots in econ in the US
Steve Cheung is solid state school econ professor but a self promoter as
well. Not many people actually know about him in the US. |
|
e**l
发帖数: 62 | 39 法国ecole polytechnique的两个硕士(A. quantitative econ&fin in department of
econ;B. master prob&fin)都给了fellowship,一样的数目，一万欧/年加上一些房屋路
费补贴什么。
现在利大概各自是：
A两年时间充分可能利于申请phd(本人对us top学校的金融或者经济的phd还是很感兴趣的，今年因为
某些原因没有申请美国博士) 而且英语教学我语言没问题
B号称在欧洲包括伦敦就业很好声誉很好（这个听说的），因为有quant理论的大牛
nicole karouli(可能拼写错误)。 这一年类似于mfe还给钱
现在问题是
A的最近PHD申请情况有人知道么？这个项目大概如何？法国的英语项目是不是意味着水
？（这个项目和hec合办，不知道是利是弊）
B的是法语，我只有两个月去学了，目前0基础，这可能让我学习不太吃力么？一年是不
是太少 不够做很多事情？所谓这个项目在金融界很受欢迎很牛究竟是传言还是真实（
中文wiki这么说的，但是wiki谁都能编辑，而且现在英国个方面限制外国工作者）？？
现在经济情况还能保持... 阅读全帖 |
|
h*****0
发帖数: 145 | 40 刚才看到明尼苏达去年的去向，吓了一跳，这么多中国学生中就没有一个像样的。原来印象中UMN的宏观是经常可以去前5名的学校的。
http://www.econ.umn.edu/graduate/placement_1011.html
Pu Chen Renmin University Assistant Professor
Jing Fang Huazhong University of Science and Technology Assistant Professor
Yenan Hou HSBC Business School Peking University Assistant Professor
Chunyang Wang HSBC Business School Peking University Assistant Professor http://www.phbs.edu.cn/content.asp?id=325
Nan Xu University of International Business and Economics of China Assistant
P... 阅读全帖 |
|
h*****0
发帖数: 145 | 41 刚才看到明尼苏达去年的去向，吓了一跳，这么多中国学生中就没有一个像样的。原来印象中UMN的宏观是经常可以去前5名的学校的。
http://www.econ.umn.edu/graduate/placement_1011.html
Pu Chen Renmin University Assistant Professor
Jing Fang Huazhong University of Science and Technology Assistant Professor
Yenan Hou HSBC Business School Peking University Assistant Professor
Chunyang Wang HSBC Business School Peking University Assistant Professor http://www.phbs.edu.cn/content.asp?id=325
Nan Xu University of International Business and Economics of China Assistant
P... 阅读全帖 |
|
e****t
发帖数: 17914 | 42 I'm actually in B school doing Econ related work. Many profs at MIT Penn
and NYU say that structural econometrics will be the next big thing for at
least b school Econ type research...
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb - 中文网站浏览器 |
|
k*****t
发帖数: 186 | 43 会计PhD很多都是从Econ转的。在不错的Program读了一两年，拿了个硕士，然后跑路。
Research method和Econ一样，Research questions 不同。工资翻几倍。 |
|
V**0
发帖数: 889 | 44 其实很多商学院phd program是一个进不易，出也难，成材率也低的地方
情商高不高，从而能不能跟对人；眼光怎么样，从而能不能选对题
个性好不好，从而能不能人缘广；运气佳不佳，从而能不能市场好
此四点做到，才能在market上有所作为；
如果上天眷顾，从一开始进一个top program就能做到这几点，同时注重coauthor的选
择；文章一次就顺利过五关斩六将，搞出自己的pipeline和特色，上market的时候有贵
人相助，你就是market上的star了
最多的， 像前几年econ的market star比如mihai manea， 那种水平的在数学界满地都
是（我指的是绝对数量，不是比例），但是在econ中是属于顶尖的了(我可以给出非常
多这样的例子）。 |
|
e******s
发帖数: 1582 | 45 不对
acct phd跟四大没什么关系
家有一枚，至今看他们专业很少科班出身，别说干四大了
有听说其他学校有，但真的是绝少数
至于lz嘛，你自己说对数学学术没兴趣，那你确定你对econ有兴趣么？
如果没有，也别转了，去了做的都一样
还在做model推数学，你也不见得喜欢
我是觉得你如果就是嫌数学没钱途的话，可以转去做quant啊，多有钱，也没必要盯着
学术界，又要耗几年时间来suffer，何必，现在econ的market也不是很好。
如果是对biz research感兴趣，那可以转转看，数学的帮助还是挺大的，但仅仅是工具
而已，如果对相关领域没什么sense，数学再好也没用。
说回来，至今好像还没太碰到过几个以前学数学现在搞biz的，大概圈子太小了。。只
有认识一个，但是做OR，基本也跟biz没多大关系。。 |
|
a****n
发帖数: 1069 | 46 econ容易进，其实主要是因为econ招的人多，当然容易进。
research |
|
w********e
发帖数: 258 | 47 经济系的人天天羡慕商学院的，很多人申请了进不去才去了经济系，还有很多经济系的
读到一半还想继续申请商学院。同时一边有骂别人不上档次。这是什么心理？
最多的， 像前几年econ的market star比如mihai manea， 那种水平的在数学界满地都
是（我指的是绝对数量，不是比例），但是在econ中是属于顶尖的了(我可以给出非常
多这样的例子）。 |
|
v*******y
发帖数: 5530 | 48 It's much easier for lz to get in finance program than accounting program,
given his math background. He may be able to apply his math skills to asset
pricing type of research. This year, many schools are looking for AP
rookies.
I don't think lz can convince anybody he knows anything about accounting, or
how to teach accounting for that matter. Accounting has high barriers to
entry because of the institutional knowledge required more than anything.
In terms of research, there is no distinct dif... 阅读全帖 |
|
s*******n
发帖数: 740 | 49 很多东西都是很难说清楚
但就从结果论， 很多牛人中都是从数学转过来的
譬如,
Emmanuel Farhi(Harvard 4年升为正教授）和 Xavier Gabaix 都是法国高师数学硕士 (超级大牛Jean Tirole是巴黎九大数学phd)
09年的market star Mihai Manea
10年的market star Alp Simsek
今年的market star Gabriel Carroll, finance market star Haoxiang Zhu
前几年的star比如Yuliy Sannikov, Michael Ostrovsky, Parag Pathak
都是从很强的数学背景转到经济的，单纯只是数学本科的人那就更多了(Shleifer和Prescott等人都是， Barro甚至还是物理的）
事实上，现在econ这个领域有不少曾经的IMO, putnam的牛人（以上的几个star除了
Pathak和Zhu之外都有过IMO)， 而且他们几乎全部都在econ中做的不错 （至少我没见
到过反例，anyone can provide a counte... 阅读全帖 |
|
V**0
发帖数: 889 | 50 Stanford GSB Econ or MIT Econ |
|
