w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 1 我早期就是只打SNG。
现在只打cash。
我一点不觉得SNG 的variance 小。
作为一个game品种来说，SNG不利于体现技术差距，不利于体现edge的作用。
variance 最小的其实是cash HU。因为这种game最利于发挥edge。
但是对新手来说，他可能打SNG的起伏比cash game小。那是因为新手往往都会去打SNG
。换句话说，他在SNG遇到的对手水平比cash game遇到的对手水平要差。所以他能有比
较大的edge。但是这种variance小是因为对手差给他的edge，而不是game品种给他的
edge。所以你在高级别的SNG中，就会比高级别的cash更难取得edge。
说cash game是金饭碗，还有一个意思是说cash game你打好了，到处都能玩。
home game，赌场，online随便哪一个小site，你都不会找不到台子。
你打SNG，要立刻有台子上，online现在可能只有PS了。
在WPN和chico这样比较大的US facing sites，你要玩SNG都要等很长时间。
在EPN一台SNG凑足人要几个小时。其他sites就更不用说。
... 阅读全帖 |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 2 实际情况就是像你说的这样。
我打了很多年SNG，一直是赢钱。但是偶尔试试cash game都是输。
所以我说低级SNG牌手的水平低于低级cash game牌手是我自己的经历。
或者说像我一样能在SNG稳定赢钱的牌手，可能是因为他们在SNG遇到的对手水平比cash
game遇到的对手水平差。
但是我在cash game成为winner后，就不想再回去打SNG。
从game的结构来说，SNG中后期很多action是不得不如此。你拿到A7o就allin，因为你
如果不这样做，在接下来BB把你淹没以前，你可能拿不到比A7更好的牌。
反过来在cash game我拿到QQ，遇到极度紧的对手3bet我还可能fold。这就是cash game
的层次感。能根据对手不同特点对对手的牌力做更细更深一层的划分和判断。
换句话说在很多SNG你是赌运气的spot，在cash game里可以凭技术减小损失或增加赢利。
现在判断哪一种game VARIANCE更大，需要一个更客观的标准。
究竟10NL或50NL应该对应哪一个buying的SNG？
我认为用平均日赢的绝对数，对比drawdown，就能比较客观的反映V... 阅读全帖 |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 3 他说的是抢盲注。
抢盲注在SNG中后期很重要因为：
1.盲注在SNG中后期升到相对自己的stack相当大；
2.在中后期台上人数减少，利于aggressive的打法。
SNG和MTT不同之处，还在于MTT一般是10%进钱圈，SNG是30%进钱圈。
所以SNG在中后期取舍是很重要的考虑因素。比如还剩4,5人的情况下，何时激进何时保
守，应该根据当时情况需要决定。
我也不赞成打太多的SNG和MTT。
打poker， cash game才是金饭碗。
9人的SNG桌，上面有3个高手，你要赢就很吃力。
9人的cash game桌，有2条鱼，你要赢就很轻松。 |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 4 fryking is right.
I play 20$, 35$ dollar super turbos. They has great value in it. Definitely,
I play 50$ super turbos regularly sometimes. Sometimes, I go nuts, and play
200$, 500$ games, but just a couple here and there.
It is not just shoving preflop, you need play postflop. Because it is super
turbo, I will have a lot of Out of Position plays also. In regular HU sng, it is not profitable to play OOP.
Usually, the ROI is very small, pay attention to it.(for example, your average profit for on... 阅读全帖 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 5 “我一点不觉得SNG 的variance 小。
作为一个game品种来说，SNG不利于体现技术差距，不利于体现edge的作用。
variance 最小的其实是cash HU。因为这种game最利于发挥edge。”
尼玛 坐着板凳 被拎到台上发言了
edge就是技术差距，variance就是因为随机因素造成的输赢的起伏。
edge和variance本身是个自独立的两个因素
但是，从最终结果来看，edge越大，variance越小
原因，
任何类型的poker game，在最低的几个级别，往往对于好的玩家来说是有很大edge的，
原因就是对手都太弱，经常犯大错，所以因为edge所获的利润，可以完全cover
variance带来的那部分不可控的损失，所以看上去，每个session都在赢。但是，一旦
升级到更高的级别，通常就是买入比较高的game，不管是sng也好HU也好，对手整体水
平上升了，原本在低级别稳赢的玩家，瞬间失去了edge的优势，甚至技术比对手差，这
时候variance的作用就成级数放大，很多人就在这里confuse了，赢一阵，输一阵，到
底自己能不能beat这个级别成了问号... 阅读全帖 |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 6 所以，我觉得，“低级别sng‘赢钱最稳’，然后是低级别HU，然后是高级别sng，然后
是高级别HU“
你这句话，光有结论，没有展开。
或者你说出原因，道理，或者你有证据支持。
我说SNG variance不小，因为我打cash只有两年。
以前一直是打SNG。所以我能够对比。 |
|
j********4
发帖数: 72 | 7
overall performance in a long run. A few downswings can easily knock you
down to 20-30% ROI. Overall, 9 person sng have much smaller swings than
cash and mtts.
at all.
Yes, you are right. My target is to have 30% ROI but play high level buy in
SnG say 30 or 40.
I guess I will move to $20 buy in the next a few days.
I started to play SnG two weeks ago with only $6 dollor in the account. Got
1st prize $22.5. Then start to play $10 buy in. Now it goes to $465...LOL |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 8 Just check the record's shark365, sounds he can not beat 90ppl KO MTT SNG
anymore??? ---- not very sure though.
check Kennl's record, sounds he can not beat 45PPL MTT sng anymore???
check lamma888's record, sounds he can not beat 180ppl 12$ buyin MTT SNG as
before???
My estimation:
1. Shark365's former winning method does not work that well as before. OR
ppl learn the same method.
2. More and more regulars are involved in those games.
3. Fishes are not that bad as before, they also learn sth.
C |
|
e**********e
发帖数: 999 | 9 Hello, my name is Chris Coles (Whoopsy_Dazy) on Pokerstars. Today, I had an
incident go down when we were attempting to do a BR Verification, and would
like to get some opinions on how this should be resolved.....
I contacted the only Moderator I saw online at the time, midconnector....
here is a transcript of our messages leading up to getting the BRV done.
Me - I just received a message for a BR Verification. Message said to
contact any online Moderator, and I saw you online.
I can do this in ... 阅读全帖 |
|
C******8
发帖数: 136 | 10 是条水下一万米深的鱼
在online cash game里输的一塌糊涂，看了一些书也没什么提高。tournaments也试过
，但耐心太差都是很早就挂了。现在打SNG，但好像和前两者都不太一样。上网查了下
也不得要领。不知道SNG的主要特点和前两者比在哪儿，有没有什么书或者文章专门针
对SNG的打法有比较好的介绍。
多谢了 |
|
C******8
发帖数: 136 | 11 那SNG的variance比cash game 和tournaments怎么样？ 大部分的书都是针对
tournaments的，里面的原则也适用于SNG吗？
还有，赌场里有打SNG的桌子吗？ |
|
h****m
发帖数: 57 | 12 I got around 50% ITM rate for SNGs. My ROI is not as good as that but at least
I am not a losing player so far. I like SNGs because you can work on your
game without much risk, like Green Plastic said. SNGs don't have the swing
that cash tables have. If you have the right strategy, your winning should be
consistant. Here are some points I got:
1. Tight is always right, especially at the beginning of the tourney when
blinds are small. Once you play a hand, be aggressive. Since the pot is not
big, |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 13
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freefree
二段参扑士
注册时间: 2006-12-02
帖子: 228
发表于: 07-03-2007 3:04 am 发表主题: 请教两手牌，SNG余中5人，谢谢？？ |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 14 still does not explain it. You have multiple all ins in each SNG with
different stack sizes. How does it calculate the final EV for that SNG? |
|
L****n
发帖数: 490 | 15 EV for SNG is pretty straight forward
If a pot has a size of 1000 chips. If your equity at allin is 30%, you get
300 EV chip.
At the end, suppose you get 2000 EV chips out of total 3000 chips.
Your EV for this SNG is 66% of the total prize. |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 16 Nice win rate, but your last week's 26% ROI is not sustainable.
I am 100% sure about it. 10%-12% is super hot already. Mine is 5%.
Plus, I show my poor run on super super turbo SNG satellite's graph. To be honest, SNG has sick variance. HU is very very stable. |
|
s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 17 各位有玩Super Turbo SNG的朋友，是不是有发现HM里面EV计算的不合理
如果没有allin操作，$EV一直是0，也就是说如果steal并不增加$EV，这样好像不对
我的理解是只要chip有变化$EV都会有变化，可是HM并没有这样计算
我发现我的true winning 一直在EV winning上好多，我怀疑正常应该就是这样
各位用HM并且玩Super Turbo SNG的朋友是不是也是这样？ |
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 18 我觉得差不多,你为什么觉得SNG preflop更重要呢?
我个人建议如果对poker有兴趣,最终还是要多提高cash game. cash game可以一路往上
打, tournament online $100 buy in的都没几个, SNG就更少了. |
|
s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 19 嗯，主要看什么目的了。。如果是grinding，稳定赚钱，不好说SNG和cash哪个合适
Hyper SNG的话，技术简单，容易上手，基本就是看你对ICM掌握的怎么样。 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 20 D神谈谈你的看法吧。你好像很空。。。。
也不用一行一行分析，就从下面这段谈起？
“我一点不觉得SNG 的variance 小。
作为一个game品种来说，SNG不利于体现技术差距，不利于体现edge的作用。
variance 最小的其实是cash HU。因为这种game最利于发挥edge。”
我有事先撤了， 尼玛还在上班呢。。。。 |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 21
常见问题与解答 (FAQ) 搜索 村民列表 村民组 注册 个人资料 登陆查
看您的私人留言 登陆
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抱扑村 首页 -> 健扑营
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freefree
二段参扑士
注册时间: 2006-12-02
帖子: 228
发表于: 07-03-2007 3:04 am 发表主题: 请教两手牌，SNG余中5人，谢谢？？ |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 22 freefree
二段参扑士
注册时间: 2006-12-02
帖子: 228
发表于: 07-03-2007 3:04 am 发表主题: 请教两手牌，SNG余中5人，谢谢？？ |
|
D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 23 got 2 Champion,
hehe, looks SNG is much easy than MTT |
|
D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 24 PS Newly Open SNG.
one hand my 2K flop 22K lost to KK ruined my last confidence to the MTT,
after i was already desperate at MTT of PS,
so i tried double or nothing, start with 1.1$ and played 5 times continously
surprisingly i got in money every time!
so i move to 5.5$, still got in money for 2 times continously
then later sometimes i lost a few as well,
will try more later.
Interesting point is that i found out this could be the only poker game in
which
it is possible to get money by register |
|
j********4
发帖数: 72 | 25 Buy-in Fee Played ITM ITM% ROI% Cost Won Profit/
Loss
10 1 39 25 64% 85% 429 792 363
Can't handle the swing in Cash game, it's also fun to play SnG. Got a good
start. |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 26 85% ROI is very nice. The sample size is too small to use the ROI as your overall performance in a long run. A few downswings can easily knock you down to 20-30% ROI. Overall, 9 person sng have much smaller swings than cash and mtts.
It is very profitable even with 20-30% roi, which is not hard to achieve at all. |
|
p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 27 faint，刚刚看到marco liesy在玩1+0.1的SNG |
|
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 28 可以啊,问题怎么能都保证是自己人啊,哈哈,我sng打的很烂
,
raised |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 29 last time, i played one 12000ftp buyin sng. Get 1 535T$ token
,
raised |
|
D*****A
发帖数: 551 | 30 最近几天很有节制的打rushNL50, 有点儿感觉，也小有进步。
顺便打了几个$3.3 SNG KO， 连续3个game都进入最后桌。
好像是运气最近不错。 |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 31 like for cash game, the ev line is the expected value when you go all in
prior to river --------- the same rule applies to HU SNG.
We do get involved a lot of allin preflop. My luck is not quite well. |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 32 Those Sng stuff is all about the volume. If you get the volume, you get the
profit seriously.
Imo, the easiest way to get volume is super turbo.
I will grind in the 50$ level for some time. if I can win at least 100 buyin
, and get around 4% ROI, then I will consider about moving up to $100 level.
it |
|
s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 33 鱼很多，而且bonus也还不错，赢3个SNG就有一个75K guarantee的门票 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 34 kao, 好久不打sng了.. 原来bb 那么多... 每次all in ahead 都是输我晕~~~ |
|
L****n
发帖数: 490 | 35 Did you read jhub's blog?
At higher stake, you need do a little bit of table selection.
http://jhub3000.livejournal.com/84368.html
He tries to avoid games with too many good regulars.
Plus, you can get SNG leaderboard Bonus if you put enough volume. |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 36 Thanks for the info. I notice this jhub30 for a long while, but I do not
notice that he has such a blog before.
Player 7: 20,000 games $20 avg. stake, 12% ROI....many people will make the
mistake of underrating this player because of his avg. stake...don't make
that same mistake...spacegravy & sizzlinbetta went from being low stakes
players to 2 of the best SNG players around within a year...his ROI is high
enough to garner a lot of respect, despite the low avg. stake....I think 4.5
% might be a... 阅读全帖 |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 37 Also, one thing bothers me a lot.
I feel I make huge mistakes always. I guess it costs me one bubble every
hour on average. It is huge, because even on 20$ level sng, one bubble is
worth 40$ with the minimum.
Does that mean I burn out 50$ every hour? I do not know.
But I am sure if I can improve my game a little, it can increase my ROI
significantly. |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 38 This is HM report for super turbo sng.
As you can see, the average buyin is 21.15$.
I worked 204 hours.
I guess I do not fan that game any more. The swings give me headache. Especially, it gave me another 1k downswing yesterday.
But the game is definitely beatable. |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 39 running hot?
Maybe not. I guess run a little above average.
I guess I should change my words, I run hot, because I play fewer games each
session, because a lot of regs reduce their buyins to join the competition,
the game becomes tougher.
How many players at beginning?
Do not know. It counts points when you are in the money(Of course,it depends
on the buyins and the number of players, similar with our Mitbbs weekly
tournament's point counting method) Every player who joins the game
participates ... 阅读全帖 |
|
s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 40 nice.
My mis-read. You mentioned "4th twice, 5th once". You mean
the lead board. I thought SNG Turbo MTT |
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 41 SNG不就是人少一点的tournament么. |
|
C******8
发帖数: 136 | 42 那tournament 的原则也适用于SNG了？不过我感觉preflop 的重要性好像更有过之 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 43 sng相对来说变化小，没有深筹的情况，其实相当适合打基础。但是不要指望赢太多钱
。 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 44 那种6-18people SNG 可能是扑克游戏里variance 最小的了相对于MTT 和cash game.
很好的练习提高的游戏。 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 45 这里说的应该是regular SNG 吧, variance 比turbo 还要小的得多。 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 46 Regular 的优点是， variance 小。 早期晚期还可以用到各种深筹短筹打法， 有利于
学习提高各种ABC打法可以用于cash 和MTT. Hyper SNG 战术比较单一， 不利于扑克
的水平的整体提高或转型到其他游戏。 hourly rate 和打的级别和ROI 都有关， 如
果都一样当然是hyper 赚钱快。
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 8.6 |
|
q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 47 会不会因为你水平提高了，EDGE大了，所以觉得现在的CASH比以前的SNG VARIANCE小。 |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 48 freefree
二段参扑士
注册时间: 2006-12-02
帖子: 228
发表于: 07-03-2007 3:04 am 发表主题: 请教两手牌，SNG余中5人，谢谢？？ |
|
D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 49 got 2 Champion,
hehe, looks SNG is much easy than MTT |
|
D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 50 PS Newly Open SNG.
one hand my 2K flop 22K lost to KK ruined my last confidence to the MTT,
after i was already desperate at MTT of PS,
so i tried double or nothing, start with 1.1$ and played 5 times continously
surprisingly i got in money every time!
so i move to 5.5$, still got in money for 2 times continously
then later sometimes i lost a few as well,
will try more later.
Interesting point is that i found out this could be the only poker game in
which
it is possible to get money by register |
|
