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Automobile版 - Crankshaft Bolt卸不下来
相关主题
换Timing Belt详细经历crankshaft pulley bolt
Loosing/Tightening Crankshaft Pulley自制HONDA crankshaft pulley holder(照片)
昨天更换timing belt的失败经历,:(((((((((((((周末换了TB
Re: 刚换了tb,老俗车timing belt DIY带图手记1 - 材料&工具
自己更换timing belt--工具Crankshaft pulley holder for Honda/Acura TB job.
自己更换timing belt--步骤[合集] 这美国车的设计是有点问题啊
换Timing Belt前的试行方案Front crankshaft seal漏油
卸crankshaft bolt三法紧急求助 timing belt, crankshaft pulley removal
相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: pulley话题: bolt话题: tool话题: honda话题: crankshaft
进入Automobile版参与讨论
1 (共1页)
b***j
发帖数: 554
1
1/2的impact,号称1200lb/ft的,纹丝不动。1/2 drive breakbar加extension,加
cheater pipe。结果把extension bar拧断了。最后用了starter trick,还是纹丝不动
:(((. 刚喷了penetrating oil,明天再试试,但感觉够呛。
还有啥办法?刚才想买3/4 drive的break bar,socket,extension。结果找不到20寸
或以上的extension。两个extension连一起行么?
g*****o
发帖数: 5955
2
铁管子都不好用?

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 1/2的impact,号称1200lb/ft的,纹丝不动。1/2 drive breakbar加extension,加
: cheater pipe。结果把extension bar拧断了。最后用了starter trick,还是纹丝不动
: :(((. 刚喷了penetrating oil,明天再试试,但感觉够呛。
: 还有啥办法?刚才想买3/4 drive的break bar,socket,extension。结果找不到20寸
: 或以上的extension。两个extension连一起行么?

b***j
发帖数: 554
3
就是用了铁管,把1/2的extension bar拧断了,螺丝没动。所以想换3/4的。

【在 g*****o 的大作中提到】
: 铁管子都不好用?
u****q
发帖数: 24345
4
Honda?
g*****o
发帖数: 5955
5
早没喷 wd40?

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 就是用了铁管,把1/2的extension bar拧断了,螺丝没动。所以想换3/4的。
W***n
发帖数: 11530
6
This is the kind of nightmare that I shall worry about when working with
mechanical stuff.
Hope the penetrating oil would solve your problem.
s******t
发帖数: 1956
7
上火烧!

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 1/2的impact,号称1200lb/ft的,纹丝不动。1/2 drive breakbar加extension,加
: cheater pipe。结果把extension bar拧断了。最后用了starter trick,还是纹丝不动
: :(((. 刚喷了penetrating oil,明天再试试,但感觉够呛。
: 还有啥办法?刚才想买3/4 drive的break bar,socket,extension。结果找不到20寸
: 或以上的extension。两个extension连一起行么?

h******x
发帖数: 1279
8
关注
H*****u
发帖数: 1766
9
除了投资工具,最便宜好用的办法就是喷火。extension bar断了说明用力偏了,可以
加个jack stand垫着,但能不用就不用。
顺便提醒一下,注意安全,当年我拧断breaker bar时差点毁容。
b***j
发帖数: 554
10
加jack stand了。。。 在bar和socket连接的地方断的,说明用力挺正的,就是bar的
强度不够。所以才想上3/4的。但找不到3/4的20寸以上的extension,又不知道两个
extension加一起行不

【在 H*****u 的大作中提到】
: 除了投资工具,最便宜好用的办法就是喷火。extension bar断了说明用力偏了,可以
: 加个jack stand垫着,但能不用就不用。
: 顺便提醒一下,注意安全,当年我拧断breaker bar时差点毁容。

相关主题
自己更换timing belt--步骤crankshaft pulley bolt
换Timing Belt前的试行方案自制HONDA crankshaft pulley holder(照片)
卸crankshaft bolt三法周末换了TB
进入Automobile版参与讨论
b***j
发帖数: 554
11
08 Odyssey. 哥们牛人啊。

【在 u****q 的大作中提到】
: Honda?
b***j
发帖数: 554
12
投资工具没问题。但要投资什么工具?

【在 H*****u 的大作中提到】
: 除了投资工具,最便宜好用的办法就是喷火。extension bar断了说明用力偏了,可以
: 加个jack stand垫着,但能不用就不用。
: 顺便提醒一下,注意安全,当年我拧断breaker bar时差点毁容。

b***j
发帖数: 554
13
火烧是最后一招,怕把后面的seal啥的烧坏了。

【在 s******t 的大作中提到】
: 上火烧!
i***r
发帖数: 1024
14
火烧

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 1/2的impact,号称1200lb/ft的,纹丝不动。1/2 drive breakbar加extension,加
: cheater pipe。结果把extension bar拧断了。最后用了starter trick,还是纹丝不动
: :(((. 刚喷了penetrating oil,明天再试试,但感觉够呛。
: 还有啥办法?刚才想买3/4 drive的break bar,socket,extension。结果找不到20寸
: 或以上的extension。两个extension连一起行么?

u****q
发帖数: 24345
15
Impact air hose要短粗。
g*****o
发帖数: 5955
16
extensioner 接起来当然可以,不过太长也会扭,不给力了。
不过这么费蛮力的活送车铺算了,自己弄没啥优势。或者找个小铺子让他们松开了再开
回家折腾。

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 加jack stand了。。。 在bar和socket连接的地方断的,说明用力挺正的,就是bar的
: 强度不够。所以才想上3/4的。但找不到3/4的20寸以上的extension,又不知道两个
: extension加一起行不

c****9
发帖数: 40
17
你去看YouTube 那些视频都是用火烧,应该没问题。

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 火烧是最后一招,怕把后面的seal啥的烧坏了。
b***j
发帖数: 554
18
现在问题是coolant已经放了,而且也拆的差不多了,要不然肯定送到小铺子去让他们
帮忙把那个螺丝松一下了。

【在 g*****o 的大作中提到】
: extensioner 接起来当然可以,不过太长也会扭,不给力了。
: 不过这么费蛮力的活送车铺算了,自己弄没啥优势。或者找个小铺子让他们松开了再开
: 回家折腾。

d********1
发帖数: 8969
19
好了吗?
g*****o
发帖数: 5955
20
偶觉得先都装上,灌上coolant哪怕蒸馏水,开到车铺去搞松了再说,犯不上因为螺丝
为难自己
相关主题
老俗车timing belt DIY带图手记1 - 材料&工具Front crankshaft seal漏油
Crankshaft pulley holder for Honda/Acura TB job.紧急求助 timing belt, crankshaft pulley removal
[合集] 这美国车的设计是有点问题啊Re: DIY正时皮带,张紧轮,水泵 (转载)
进入Automobile版参与讨论
W***n
发帖数: 11530
21
Problem solved?
Try to use the largest size ratchet that fits your socket and use a pipe of
the right size (little play when inserted) with longest practical length to
gain the biggest mechanical advantage. May work?
W***n
发帖数: 11530
22
This is from the Pro:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/
How can I get the crankshaft bolt undone so I can change my timing belt?
you came from: Master List > Engines
This question shows up in the newsgroup quite regularly. The bolt holding
the pulley to the crankshaft is on there TIGHT. Some folks have had so much
trouble getting it started they've posted plaintive enquiries wondering if
it's a left-hand threaded bolt! No, it unscrews the regular way, but don't
kid yourself that you're going to undo it with a short-handled wrench.
Having the car up on jackstands probably won't give enough room to swing the
handle of the wrench you're going to need.
Why is it so darn tight? It's a well-known phenomenon called "embedment",
where the surface textures of a bolt's threads and those of its receiving
hole mesh ("stick") together. Honda warned its dealership technicians about
it years ago, in this PDF document.
Also, older 4-cylinder Honda engines have a special quirk that very few
other makers' engines do: They turn counter-clockwise, backwards from the
industry norm (Honda's V6 engines turn clockwise). With clockwise engines,
you can place a wrench on the bolt, position the handle against the frame
just so, then blip the starter. This will break the bolt loose. You CANNOT
do this with Honda's older counter-clockwise 4-cylinder engines.
Before shutting the engine down for the last time, check to see which way it
turns. If the timing belt end is towards the American-style driver's side (
left side of the car as viewed from the driver's seat), then the engine
turns counter-clockwise in the traditional Honda manner. If the timing belt
is on the American-style passenger side, then the engine turns clockwise.
A warning: You MUST torque the crank bolt back down correctly after you put
it back. Failure to reinstall it correctly (including putting oil in the
correct locations on the bolt) will result in the pulley eventually falling
off while driving. Consult your shop manual for correct torque figure and
procedure. This is true whether your engine turns clockwise or counter-
clockwise. Loose bolts fall off, period. Don't let anybody tell you they
somehow "tighten" if the crankshaft turns clockwise.
Now, here's a list of different methods of bolt removal:
The physically easiest way to get the bolt loose
Manual methods: Not as desirable, but if you have no access to the
electric impact wrench or air tools, the only way
For pulleys with a hexagonal center apertureHex-hole pulley graphic
For pulleys with no hex, but a ring of holes around the perimeter Ring-
of-holes pulley graphic
How to get it tightened back up again
The physically easiest way to get the bolt loose
back to top
An impact wrench. The best method by far.
DeWalt 325lb electric impact wrenches are available from any industrial
rental place for less than $20 per day. You might have to buzz back-and-
forth (tighten for a bit, loosen for a bit, etc.) for a minute or so, but it
will probably eventually come free. Mine did, and I live in the Rust Belt.
These are very handy as they require no $1,000 compressor.
If the bolt does not let go no matter how long you buzz with the DeWalt, you
'll need some heavier artillery: An air impact wrench backed up by a big
compressor. If a regular 1/2" drive air wrench won't work, try the Big
Bertha of impact wrenches: A 3/4" drive 600 ft-lb job. If even Big Bertha
fails, or you can't get your hands on a gun that big, a blow or two on the
crankshaft bolt with an air hammer (rentable) will break the seal that's
locking things up. Don't worry, you won't damage anything by whacking it
with the air hammer. Garages do this on a daily basis. You can even try a
hard whack with a regular 16oz claw hammer, but don't miss, or you'll bend
something expensive!!!!
If you don't have an air wrench or compressor, you can go to a nearby garage
and ask them to buzz the bolt loose for you, then snug it up again, just
enough for you to get home. Might cost you five or ten bucks or so, and the
mechanic/garage may not even charge you if they don't have to put the car on
the hoist. Worth a try, anyway.
The beauty of any impact gun -- air or electric -- is that because of how it
works, the crankshaft and the engine itself will not move very much at all
as you attack the bolt. This means that your careful TDC setting won't be
disturbed, and you don't need to worry about trying to keep the crank from
turning while you work.
Manual methods: Not as desirable, but if you have no access to the electric
impact wrench or air tools, the only way
back to top
With manual tools, a new problem arises: How to stop the engine from turning
when you apply the necessary torque with a half-inch drive tommybar whose
handle has been extended with a length of pipe. Just having the car in gear
won't cut it. Jamming a big screwdriver into the teeth on the flywheel works
sometimes, but it's a good way to risk tearing up the ring gear.
One possible serious problem with any manual approach to removing the crank
bolt is damage to the engine mounts. Since you'll be applying a large amount
of force over a large amount of time, you will end up pulling the engine in
the direction of your efforts. Pull it enough and I'd wonder if you would
run the risk of over-stressing the mounts. In the majority of cases, just
pulling with all your might is futile, anyway. I'd try an impact gun, or the
pulley-holding tools mentioned below before simply hauling on it with a
breaker bar.
Luckily for us, Honda has already thought about this. Honda has used a
number of pulley designs over the years, and they have included features on
the pulleys that are designed to receive pulley holding tools. These tools
are available commercially, or are easily constructable by you.
The point of these tools is to keep the crank pulley still, not only for the
obvious reason that you can't undo a bolt that won't keep still, but also
so that the engine mounts are not stressed.
A warning here: It's my understanding that there are aftermarket shop
manuals out there that suggest the use of a strap-type "belt wrench" to hold
the pulley still. This is a bad idea. At least some Honda crank pulleys
contain a rubber vibration-damper insert. A belt-type wrench can damage that.
For pulleys with a hexagonal center aperture
back to top
For Hondas with a hex aperture in the pulley, the proper way is to use the
tool pictured at the front of the shop manual. It's essentially a length of
hexagonal pipe with a handle welded to it. It will fit into the hex hole in
the pulley and allow a deep socket of the proper size to pass though and get
hold of the bolt.
I don't know how many sizes of hex Honda used. The text below deals ONLY
with the 50mm (2") size. Any advice from readers?
You can buy a tool, or you can make one.
Professionally made tools:
With the prevalence of Hondas on the road today, more and more tools outfits
are offering pulley holders. They've become so mainstream that they're
often readily available at consumer outlets like AutoZone, NAPA and Canadian
Tire.
Here's one
http://www.autopart.com/TOOLS/TOOLSMAIN/tool/T_A812.htm
And below are more:
Canadian Tire crank pulley tool These two came from Canadian Tire in
Canada, photos courtesy of Curly. I saw identical ones at AutoZone, Kragen
and Pep Boys in California.
The photo here shows both the hex tool on the left and the "ring of holes"
tool on the right.
Apparently the blister packs have text on their back that indicates the
models that they fit.
Cost is around $20~$30 each,
Another hex tool - different design
This tool is very close (if not identical) to the one shown in the
autopart.com link above. The view here is from the side, so the hex opening
is up and down.
Home-made tools:
You don't have to buy a tool though. If you're adventurous, you can roll
your own...
Two posters, "jamieson" and "Curly" combine here to offer this clever
version of the Honda "special tool".
Home-made crank pulley holder pic1
Home-made crank pulley holder pic2
Home-made crank pulley holder pic2
How It Was Done, from "jamieson":
"The local hardware store sells a 1 1/2" threaded plumbing adapter with a
hex flange on one side of it. With a little bit of filing, the hex flange
fits into the 50mm hex depression in the crankshaft pulley. Then I took a
pipe wrench and cranked it down on the plumbing adapter threads sticking out
of the crankshaft pulley. It works just like the Honda crankshaft pulley
holder tool, only costs a lot less."
More detail from "Curly":
"It's not actually called a 2" fitting, but it is 2" across. ANY plumbing
shop has them, just get the one with the largest internal thread, since your
19mm deep socket has to fit inside. You'll also need a 17 mm _DEEP_ socket
for the motor mount. Make sure you have it ahead of time. I 'painted' the
faces with jumbo marker, then used a bench grinder to grind off about 1/32"
off all faces, so it would fit (same tool for first generation Odyssey), BTW
. "I also removed the outside threads, but that was for looks.
A buddy welded it to the steel bar, then blew the hole thru the bar for the
socket to go thru. "
This is simple enough that pretty much anybody with an acetylene torch or
MIG welder should be able to stick these parts together for you and cut a
hole in the middle of the bar. A muffler shop would be ideal for this. The
hole in the middle has to be large enough to allow a socket to pass through.
Safety Steve's homemade tool
There's another way to make a tool from plumbing parts, one that doesn't
require welding. Safety Steve shows us how:
"I liked the [other] homemade pulley tools you showcased, but I don't like
to weld in my garage. So I used all plumbing parts. Start with the 1.5"
adapter, fit it into a tee, and add a short pipe for a handle. Removing the
nut tightens the adapter into the tee hard enough so that it won't unscrew
when you use it to tighten the pulley bolt, since it takes way more torque
to get it off than what is required to tighten it. Still a cheap tool!"
For pulleys with a ring of holes around their center aperture
back to top
Other, older Hondas have a ring of small holes around the central bolt hole,
much like the bottom of an oil filter. Some have a protruding lip, some do
not. Still, there are tools you can buy...
Canadian Tire crank pulley tool Yes, you've seen this picture before,
in the hex tools section above.
The one on the right is the one for the
"ring of holes" style of pulley.
Professional ring-of-holes pulley holder pic1 Professional ring-of-holes
pulley holder pic1 jim beam supplied these pictures of an expensive
professional tool.
It appears that your socket would fit through the large center lug on the
tool, holding it centered while the pin locks in one of the perimeter holes.
Broken ring-of-holes pulley
What kind of damage can occur
if the wrong tool is used?
jim beam shows here, in this
dramatic photo.
A tool may also be fabricated that consists of a long metal rod with two
bolts installed at one end at right-angles to the rod. It looks sort of like
a toothbrush with only two big bristles, one behind the other. You space
the bristles so you can insert them into two of the pulley holes (skirting
past the bolt in the middle), which locks the pulley in place, then brace
the end on the ground as you try to undo (or tighten) the pulley bolt.
Buying or fabricating a tool similar to the photos is preferable, though.
How to tighten the bolt back up again
back to top
If you have a manual transmission car, it's a piece of cake. Just put the
transmission in 1st gear, have a helper step on the foot brake (foot off the
clutch), then operate that torque wrench. There'll be a bit of flex and
spring in the driveline as you work, but not enough to matter.
If you have an automatic transmission, you'll be forced to use one of the
pulley-holding methods described above. Unlike a manual, an automatic
interposes no solid connection between flywheel and road wheels, so unless
the pulley is forcibly held still somehow, the engine will simply turn round
and round as you try to tighten the crank bolt.
A warning: It's my understanding that there are aftermarket shop manuals out
there that suggest the use of a strap-type "belt wrench" to hold the pulley
still. This is a bad idea. At least some Honda crank pulleys contain a
rubber vibration-damper insert. A belt-type wrench can damage that.
Last updated: Feb06/08
d********1
发帖数: 8969
23
兄弟,完工了吗?

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 1/2的impact,号称1200lb/ft的,纹丝不动。1/2 drive breakbar加extension,加
: cheater pipe。结果把extension bar拧断了。最后用了starter trick,还是纹丝不动
: :(((. 刚喷了penetrating oil,明天再试试,但感觉够呛。
: 还有啥办法?刚才想买3/4 drive的break bar,socket,extension。结果找不到20寸
: 或以上的extension。两个extension连一起行么?

s***q
发帖数: 501
24

honda的车你用starter trick松crankshaft bolt?难怪你拧不下来

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 08 Odyssey. 哥们牛人啊。
s***q
发帖数: 501
25
Sorry,看帖不细,没没意是六缸车
B*Z
发帖数: 7062
26
本田车要有专门的crankshaft tool,80刀一个。这个螺丝要是好拧,很多人都可以diy
了。

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 1/2的impact,号称1200lb/ft的,纹丝不动。1/2 drive breakbar加extension,加
: cheater pipe。结果把extension bar拧断了。最后用了starter trick,还是纹丝不动
: :(((. 刚喷了penetrating oil,明天再试试,但感觉够呛。
: 还有啥办法?刚才想买3/4 drive的break bar,socket,extension。结果找不到20寸
: 或以上的extension。两个extension连一起行么?

v*****z
发帖数: 3067
27
好拧! get the right tools
f*****n
发帖数: 18176
28
啥工具?

【在 v*****z 的大作中提到】
: 好拧! get the right tools
u****s
发帖数: 372
29
Powerbuilt 648796 Honda Cranks Pulley Removal Tool (search amazon)
http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-3-Piece-2-Inch-Impact-Extension/dp/ (2 套)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VAQNPA/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3C_
http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-15207-4-Inch-24-Inch-Breaker/dp/B0 (2 套)
http://www.amazon.com/Sunex-419mzt-4-Inch-12-Point-Impact/dp/B0 (1 枚)
floor stand (2 套)
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Mueller-Streamline-3-4-in-x-10-ft-Bl (1只)
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-58430-Shaft-Type-Puller/dp/B000FPYW (1只,用于将老的密封圈拉出来)
基本就这些,看看YOUTUBE再静下来动动脑子,搭配组合一下,基本就行了。,另外,
由于加了水管的break bar很长,在送这个螺母时,会被压得较弯,不要放弃,继续压
,就会听见BANG的声音,就成功了。所有的sockets,break bar 必须是impact的。
a******o
发帖数: 16625
30
Oreilley店里有可以免费借。

diy

【在 B*Z 的大作中提到】
: 本田车要有专门的crankshaft tool,80刀一个。这个螺丝要是好拧,很多人都可以diy
: 了。

相关主题
Audi Q5 2013 - 德国车配件比美国日本车贵些吗?Loosing/Tightening Crankshaft Pulley
车漏油了,请教请教 (转载)昨天更换timing belt的失败经历,:(((((((((((((
换Timing Belt详细经历Re: 刚换了tb,
进入Automobile版参与讨论
b***j
发帖数: 554
31
感谢大家都热烈回复。 报告一下,昨天拧下来了,没有烧,用的是3/4的break bark,
3/4的16''extension加3/4的6'' extension,3/4的19mm socket,加大概3尺长的
cheater pipe,就是千斤顶上的铁管。那个管子壁厚,home depot的电线管不行。
全套的3/4的工具到了之后,一下就拧下来了。之前用1/2的怎么拧都不行,用starter
trick,至少打了10次,也不行。
不过就算有3/4的工具,也得有点儿力量,小个的话估计得两个人。

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 1/2的impact,号称1200lb/ft的,纹丝不动。1/2 drive breakbar加extension,加
: cheater pipe。结果把extension bar拧断了。最后用了starter trick,还是纹丝不动
: :(((. 刚喷了penetrating oil,明天再试试,但感觉够呛。
: 还有啥办法?刚才想买3/4 drive的break bar,socket,extension。结果找不到20寸
: 或以上的extension。两个extension连一起行么?

g*****o
发帖数: 5955
32
kong。。。homedepot 哪里是买电线管,当然是铁水管了,绝对比千斤顶把手好用

starter

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 感谢大家都热烈回复。 报告一下,昨天拧下来了,没有烧,用的是3/4的break bark,
: 3/4的16''extension加3/4的6'' extension,3/4的19mm socket,加大概3尺长的
: cheater pipe,就是千斤顶上的铁管。那个管子壁厚,home depot的电线管不行。
: 全套的3/4的工具到了之后,一下就拧下来了。之前用1/2的怎么拧都不行,用starter
: trick,至少打了10次,也不行。
: 不过就算有3/4的工具,也得有点儿力量,小个的话估计得两个人。

B*Z
发帖数: 7062
33
请问具体都是怎么连接的?有没有买那个专门的工具。要是有个照片就更好了。多谢。

starter

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 感谢大家都热烈回复。 报告一下,昨天拧下来了,没有烧,用的是3/4的break bark,
: 3/4的16''extension加3/4的6'' extension,3/4的19mm socket,加大概3尺长的
: cheater pipe,就是千斤顶上的铁管。那个管子壁厚,home depot的电线管不行。
: 全套的3/4的工具到了之后,一下就拧下来了。之前用1/2的怎么拧都不行,用starter
: trick,至少打了10次,也不行。
: 不过就算有3/4的工具,也得有点儿力量,小个的话估计得两个人。

u****q
发帖数: 24345
34
卤煮需要的是专门的power socket,像这个:
b***j
发帖数: 554
35
Cool. 下次买个试试:D

【在 u****q 的大作中提到】
: 卤煮需要的是专门的power socket,像这个:
b***j
发帖数: 554
36
是因为家里有现成的铁电线管,就地取材了。:D

【在 g*****o 的大作中提到】
: kong。。。homedepot 哪里是买电线管,当然是铁水管了,绝对比千斤顶把手好用
:
: starter

b***j
发帖数: 554
37
bolt -> socket -> at least 20'' extension -> break bar -> cheater pipe -> 人
手 :D
最好再加个jack stand在extension和break bar连接的地方,提供支撑。这些东西都买
来,肯定就知道怎么弄了。

【在 B*Z 的大作中提到】
: 请问具体都是怎么连接的?有没有买那个专门的工具。要是有个照片就更好了。多谢。
:
: starter

b***j
发帖数: 554
38
哦,下面那些是用来拧那个螺丝的。还要买那个专门工具,honda crankshaft holder,
我买了个便宜的,20几块钱。用那个holder加上break bar,撑在地上,就行了。

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: bolt -> socket -> at least 20'' extension -> break bar -> cheater pipe -> 人
: 手 :D
: 最好再加个jack stand在extension和break bar连接的地方,提供支撑。这些东西都买
: 来,肯定就知道怎么弄了。

P*B
发帖数: 944
39
白铁管翘了,就该换黑铁管

★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 8.2.2

【在 b***j 的大作中提到】
: 是因为家里有现成的铁电线管,就地取材了。:D
1 (共1页)
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