C********4
发帖数: 308 | |
x*******t
发帖数: 3764 | |
c********r
发帖数: 1125 | 3
大致说就是他们声称work的系统技术在neuron里面压根根本就不work，不能重复。。
独立调查把屎盆子都扣到一作（看名字是个泰米尔－印度人）上了，说一作伪造数据。
他们组另外的结论是经过“某些改造” 他们的技术应该还是可以work的，不过会在将
来发表云云。。。
真TM不严谨。。。。。无语了。。。这种事情出来还能继续在圈子里呼风唤雨。。。真
是耻辱。
我们实验室所有的原始结果老板都要亲自看过的才能发表的。。。他也full professor
了，事务缠身啊。。。
【在 x*******t 的大作中提到】
: 原因是啥？
|
d********m
发帖数: 3662 | |
s*****j
发帖数: 6435 | 5 "MIT’s investigation also found that Dr. Thyagarajan was solely
responsible for the scientific misconduct that resulted in the falsified or
fabricated data. "
professor
【在 c********r 的大作中提到】
:
: 大致说就是他们声称work的系统技术在neuron里面压根根本就不work，不能重复。。
: 独立调查把屎盆子都扣到一作（看名字是个泰米尔－印度人）上了，说一作伪造数据。
: 他们组另外的结论是经过“某些改造” 他们的技术应该还是可以work的，不过会在将
: 来发表云云。。。
: 真TM不严谨。。。。。无语了。。。这种事情出来还能继续在圈子里呼风唤雨。。。真
: 是耻辱。
: 我们实验室所有的原始结果老板都要亲自看过的才能发表的。。。他也full professor
: 了，事务缠身啊。。。
|
d********m
发帖数: 3662 | 6 alice ting为了这河蟹的调查结果献身了没
or
【在 s*****j 的大作中提到】
: "MIT’s investigation also found that Dr. Thyagarajan was solely
: responsible for the scientific misconduct that resulted in the falsified or
: fabricated data. "
:
:
: professor
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 7 You guys trust anything from people trained by Schultz? Lol... |
s*****g
发帖数: 7857 | 8 Amar Thyagarajan, Alice Y. Ting
我现在一看到印度人的名字就害怕! |
m*******n
发帖数: 387 | 9 Alice Y. Ting和 Schultz这两个实验室有什么八卦？ |
w********r
发帖数: 1431 | 10 原始结果还好吧，真要造假的话，原始的片子也看不出什么来。
我老板通常都是再找一两个人，把关键的实验做一遍。
当然不会直接说是让别人重复你的实验，
而是设计几个assay让做相关课题的人做一做，把你的结果当做positive ctrl或者
negative ctrl.
我觉得这个办法挺好的。
professor
【在 c********r 的大作中提到】
:
: 大致说就是他们声称work的系统技术在neuron里面压根根本就不work，不能重复。。
: 独立调查把屎盆子都扣到一作（看名字是个泰米尔－印度人）上了，说一作伪造数据。
: 他们组另外的结论是经过“某些改造” 他们的技术应该还是可以work的，不过会在将
: 来发表云云。。。
: 真TM不严谨。。。。。无语了。。。这种事情出来还能继续在圈子里呼风唤雨。。。真
: 是耻辱。
: 我们实验室所有的原始结果老板都要亲自看过的才能发表的。。。他也full professor
: 了，事务缠身啊。。。
|
|
|
a**y
发帖数: 464 | 11 It is unbelievable to see this nonsense comment here by a professor at a
certain university. Even if you has some problem with Schultz, it is unfair
to comment in such a way.
Schultz has made significant contributions on catalytic antibody, genetic
code expansion and cell reprograming, which has been widely accepted by the
scientific community. Also, several companies are using technologies
developed in his lab now - further confirming the use of his research.
Although in a few years ago, there were two retractions resulted from the
misconduct by a former Chinese postdoc, it should not totally remove Schultz
's contribution.
As for profs training by schultz, the list is longer than 160. Just name a
few: Kevan Shokat at UCSF; David Liu at Harvard; Linda Carol Hsieh-Wilson-
all are renowned and respectful scientists.
Even for Alice Ting: She has made great contribution to protein labeling
techniques, which are currently used by thousands of labs. One retraction
should NOT blow her good work away!
--By someone also trained by Schultz, and probably for all other graduate
students and postdocs trained by him.
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: You guys trust anything from people trained by Schultz? Lol...
|
l***d
发帖数: 1798 | |
p**t
发帖数: 160 | 13 被人举报的？还是自己组后来发现不work的？是paper里的某个数据，还是很多数据有
问题？
professor
【在 c********r 的大作中提到】
:
: 大致说就是他们声称work的系统技术在neuron里面压根根本就不work，不能重复。。
: 独立调查把屎盆子都扣到一作（看名字是个泰米尔－印度人）上了，说一作伪造数据。
: 他们组另外的结论是经过“某些改造” 他们的技术应该还是可以work的，不过会在将
: 来发表云云。。。
: 真TM不严谨。。。。。无语了。。。这种事情出来还能继续在圈子里呼风唤雨。。。真
: 是耻辱。
: 我们实验室所有的原始结果老板都要亲自看过的才能发表的。。。他也full professor
: 了，事务缠身啊。。。
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 14 Well, I'm just reporting what his post-doc emailed out and accuse him of to
everyone and was posted online publically. It is very well documented (of
course, the scientific misconduct is never Schultz' fault). I know he
trained many big name scientists and was on Time magazine in the 90s. As
for several companies using his technology now, you don't mean to say they
are his companies (btw, how are these companies doing?). The Chinese
post-doc you are talking about is a P.I. and still is a P.I. I guess
connection is greater than real work these days. Since you are a insider,
can you tell me how tightly Schultz run his ship personally?
Btw, I just have hard time reproducing some of his results if you ask me
personally and I think I'm half a insider, and I will let history (if people
actually care about it) to be the judge. I do have to apologized for my
initial comments that's way too harsh on all scientists associated to
Schultz. I'm SORRY.
unfair
the
Schultz
【在 a**y 的大作中提到】
: It is unbelievable to see this nonsense comment here by a professor at a
: certain university. Even if you has some problem with Schultz, it is unfair
: to comment in such a way.
: Schultz has made significant contributions on catalytic antibody, genetic
: code expansion and cell reprograming, which has been widely accepted by the
: scientific community. Also, several companies are using technologies
: developed in his lab now - further confirming the use of his research.
: Although in a few years ago, there were two retractions resulted from the
: misconduct by a former Chinese postdoc, it should not totally remove Schultz
: 's contribution.
|
s*****j
发帖数: 6435 | 15 这 english,
unfair
the
Schultz
【在 a**y 的大作中提到】
: It is unbelievable to see this nonsense comment here by a professor at a
: certain university. Even if you has some problem with Schultz, it is unfair
: to comment in such a way.
: Schultz has made significant contributions on catalytic antibody, genetic
: code expansion and cell reprograming, which has been widely accepted by the
: scientific community. Also, several companies are using technologies
: developed in his lab now - further confirming the use of his research.
: Although in a few years ago, there were two retractions resulted from the
: misconduct by a former Chinese postdoc, it should not totally remove Schultz
: 's contribution.
|
s*****j
发帖数: 6435 | 16 真人比照片差多了.
【在 l***d 的大作中提到】
: 这才是美女啊。
|
a**y
发帖数: 464 | 17 It is just a bbs post. I think you understand what I was trying to express.
【在 s*****j 的大作中提到】
: 真人比照片差多了.
|
a**y
发帖数: 464 | 18 Nevertheless, what you commented here is not related to your post at the
beginning.
I don't understand how your personal problem with Schultz would "affect"
everyone trained by him.
I don't see any logic here, even though I know you are a professor somewhere.
On the other side, Zhang, who is related with the retraction and a former
assistant professor at UT austin, lost his job. I don't know where he is now
, though.
As for your "personal" experience, I suggest that you defend your stand
academically.
to
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: Well, I'm just reporting what his post-doc emailed out and accuse him of to
: everyone and was posted online publically. It is very well documented (of
: course, the scientific misconduct is never Schultz' fault). I know he
: trained many big name scientists and was on Time magazine in the 90s. As
: for several companies using his technology now, you don't mean to say they
: are his companies (btw, how are these companies doing?). The Chinese
: post-doc you are talking about is a P.I. and still is a P.I. I guess
: connection is greater than real work these days. Since you are a insider,
: can you tell me how tightly Schultz run his ship personally?
: Btw, I just have hard time reproducing some of his results if you ask me
|
b******k
发帖数: 2321 | 19 这个就不必了吧 bbs上人家说说personal experience大可不必上升到科学讨论的层面
上要求逻辑和数据支持，就像你也不觉得你自己的帖子需要写得像paper那么通顺流畅
一样。
somewhere.
now
【在 a**y 的大作中提到】
: Nevertheless, what you commented here is not related to your post at the
: beginning.
: I don't understand how your personal problem with Schultz would "affect"
: everyone trained by him.
: I don't see any logic here, even though I know you are a professor somewhere.
: On the other side, Zhang, who is related with the retraction and a former
: assistant professor at UT austin, lost his job. I don't know where he is now
: , though.
: As for your "personal" experience, I suggest that you defend your stand
: academically.
|
a**y
发帖数: 464 | 20 Just a suggestion, in that way, bad persons will be punished.
I am personally fine with the tone in his second post. I feel very
uncomfortable with his first post.
-read it if you can.
I think I am very reasonable on this issue.
【在 b******k 的大作中提到】
: 这个就不必了吧 bbs上人家说说personal experience大可不必上升到科学讨论的层面
: 上要求逻辑和数据支持，就像你也不觉得你自己的帖子需要写得像paper那么通顺流畅
: 一样。
:
: somewhere.
: now
|
|
|
b******k
发帖数: 2321 | 21 我理解你的意思 我是说 bbs上大家分享个人感受没必要上升到多么严格的层面上去。
比如说我要出来说XX文章做的真漂亮，或者XX PI长得有点猥琐，难道我还得列出证据
说明那文章真的好而且好在哪里，或者XX的五官哪里有缺陷？
【在 a**y 的大作中提到】
: Just a suggestion, in that way, bad persons will be punished.
: I am personally fine with the tone in his second post. I feel very
: uncomfortable with his first post.
: -read it if you can.
: I think I am very reasonable on this issue.
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 22 Zhang? Just google him, very easy to find. He didn't get tenure because
the bad timing of his retraction.
Why do I need to defend Schultz stuff academically? I don't want to touch
what he is doing at all with a 10 foot pole.
somewhere.
now
【在 a**y 的大作中提到】
: Nevertheless, what you commented here is not related to your post at the
: beginning.
: I don't understand how your personal problem with Schultz would "affect"
: everyone trained by him.
: I don't see any logic here, even though I know you are a professor somewhere.
: On the other side, Zhang, who is related with the retraction and a former
: assistant professor at UT austin, lost his job. I don't know where he is now
: , though.
: As for your "personal" experience, I suggest that you defend your stand
: academically.
|
a**y
发帖数: 464 | 23 1. Your comments mentioned in the first post could ruin many researcher's
reputation without basis in fact.
I hope the persons trained in your lab could be different from you.
2. Schultz is the type of person you might not like. But he reaches the
place where you are unlikely to reach in your whole career.
3. I didn't mean that you should defend him. I meant if you see the problem,
you should be brave to defend yourself that Schultz and his coworkers are
not honest (we do sometimes make honest mistakes, however- that is a
different issue).
4. Come back to Zhang's case, the bad person is punished - the good won.
That is the end most would like to see. It is not reasonable to presume that
Schultz would fake the data at that time, just for a science paper. As you
mentioned, he has been famous since early 90s.
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: Zhang? Just google him, very easy to find. He didn't get tenure because
: the bad timing of his retraction.
: Why do I need to defend Schultz stuff academically? I don't want to touch
: what he is doing at all with a 10 foot pole.
:
: somewhere.
: now
|
a**y
发帖数: 464 | 24 sure. He mentioned "anyone trained by Shultz" - that includes me. Everyone
can speak out his feelings, but don't hurt others' felling without a
reasonable
reason.
【在 b******k 的大作中提到】
: 我理解你的意思 我是说 bbs上大家分享个人感受没必要上升到多么严格的层面上去。
: 比如说我要出来说XX文章做的真漂亮，或者XX PI长得有点猥琐，难道我还得列出证据
: 说明那文章真的好而且好在哪里，或者XX的五官哪里有缺陷？
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 25 Great, tell me one thing that he invented that is in the clinical trial or
on market, or used by real people instead of in a lab. I don't need to ruin
Schultz's reputation, his post-doc(s) including the one who wrote the
infamous email already did.
Reach what place (socially? or academically? I'm lazy, I don't expect to
reach his level in academic at all). Btw, how do you know I was not born in
higher place socially than he is? I expect people from China knows about
culture revolution to understand how the social order works more than anyone
else.
Btw, if you call this punishment...
http://www.scu.edu/engineering/bioengineering/Zhang.cfm
problem,
【在 a**y 的大作中提到】
: 1. Your comments mentioned in the first post could ruin many researcher's
: reputation without basis in fact.
: I hope the persons trained in your lab could be different from you.
: 2. Schultz is the type of person you might not like. But he reaches the
: place where you are unlikely to reach in your whole career.
: 3. I didn't mean that you should defend him. I meant if you see the problem,
: you should be brave to defend yourself that Schultz and his coworkers are
: not honest (we do sometimes make honest mistakes, however- that is a
: different issue).
: 4. Come back to Zhang's case, the bad person is punished - the good won.
|
a**y
发帖数: 464 | 26 1. Go back to read your first email- it was not just about Schultz- you said
anyone trained by Schultz. Can you tell me your logic?
2. Are you trying to say you were born in a family who are socially high?
I don't care, and who cares! Even if you are the son of Xi Jinping.
3. It is unfair to ask an academic researcher to have a drug on the market.
Many good scientists don't. Einstein developed the theory for laser, but he
never made one. Of course, Einstein achieved a lot more than Schultz.
4. I didn't know Zhang started a new position on Santa Clara University. It
seems that the university decided to believe his story. If you are
uncomfortable with it, I encourage you go after it. -but this is irrelevant
to everyone trained by Schultz.
5. Although you said "sorry" once, but it was not from your heart.
ruin
in
anyone
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: Great, tell me one thing that he invented that is in the clinical trial or
: on market, or used by real people instead of in a lab. I don't need to ruin
: Schultz's reputation, his post-doc(s) including the one who wrote the
: infamous email already did.
: Reach what place (socially? or academically? I'm lazy, I don't expect to
: reach his level in academic at all). Btw, how do you know I was not born in
: higher place socially than he is? I expect people from China knows about
: culture revolution to understand how the social order works more than anyone
: else.
: Btw, if you call this punishment...
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 27 1. I'm truly sorry for that statement. However, I think you notice that it
is harder to find a job with his name last few years.
2. Na, I'm no body. Don't mind me.
3. Except he found how many companies that promised translation? If I
remember correctly, he found one company based on the retracted paper? Did
you know the story about that particular technology? I don't want to make a
statement here.
4. Sure, you don't Prof. UC. Btw, you are telling me the email send to
everyone is not based on truth and describe Schultz lab culture pretty well.
You might not have overlap with those people in question though, and
Schultz might have changed after the incident.
said
.
he
It
irrelevant
【在 a**y 的大作中提到】
: 1. Go back to read your first email- it was not just about Schultz- you said
: anyone trained by Schultz. Can you tell me your logic?
: 2. Are you trying to say you were born in a family who are socially high?
: I don't care, and who cares! Even if you are the son of Xi Jinping.
: 3. It is unfair to ask an academic researcher to have a drug on the market.
: Many good scientists don't. Einstein developed the theory for laser, but he
: never made one. Of course, Einstein achieved a lot more than Schultz.
: 4. I didn't know Zhang started a new position on Santa Clara University. It
: seems that the university decided to believe his story. If you are
: uncomfortable with it, I encourage you go after it. -but this is irrelevant
|
h****f
发帖数: 175 | 28 楼上的吵个毛啊，亏死了，blinc居然是假的，辛亏没有follow。还是专心用我的Grasp
吧 |
b******k
发帖数: 2321 | 29 grasp好用么？
Grasp
【在 h****f 的大作中提到】
: 楼上的吵个毛啊，亏死了，blinc居然是假的，辛亏没有follow。还是专心用我的Grasp
: 吧
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | |
|
|
s**********e
发帖数: 2888 | 31 支持你一把，有的人不理也罢。
said
.
he
It
irrelevant
【在 a**y 的大作中提到】
: 1. Go back to read your first email- it was not just about Schultz- you said
: anyone trained by Schultz. Can you tell me your logic?
: 2. Are you trying to say you were born in a family who are socially high?
: I don't care, and who cares! Even if you are the son of Xi Jinping.
: 3. It is unfair to ask an academic researcher to have a drug on the market.
: Many good scientists don't. Einstein developed the theory for laser, but he
: never made one. Of course, Einstein achieved a lot more than Schultz.
: 4. I didn't know Zhang started a new position on Santa Clara University. It
: seems that the university decided to believe his story. If you are
: uncomfortable with it, I encourage you go after it. -but this is irrelevant
|
c****c
发帖数: 36 | 32 这个ahvy还真有点得理不饶人哎
problem,
【在 a**y 的大作中提到】
: 1. Your comments mentioned in the first post could ruin many researcher's
: reputation without basis in fact.
: I hope the persons trained in your lab could be different from you.
: 2. Schultz is the type of person you might not like. But he reaches the
: place where you are unlikely to reach in your whole career.
: 3. I didn't mean that you should defend him. I meant if you see the problem,
: you should be brave to defend yourself that Schultz and his coworkers are
: not honest (we do sometimes make honest mistakes, however- that is a
: different issue).
: 4. Come back to Zhang's case, the bad person is punished - the good won.
|
l****y
发帖数: 398 | 33 一直没搞懂她最厉害的贡献到底是啥 为啥这么火
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 C********4 的大作中提到】
: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867413000
: 这种对老板有什么影响吗，是仅仅丢脸还是会有实际的影响？
|
X******n
发帖数: 914 | 34 没觉得他得理了。
【在 c****c 的大作中提到】
: 这个ahvy还真有点得理不饶人哎
:
: problem,
|
w***r
发帖数: 709 | 35 同意，不是个善类
【在 X******n 的大作中提到】
: 没觉得他得理了。
|
n***c
发帖数: 7400 | 36 这个阿三的学术生涯，这么一搞，是不是就到头了啊。
The first author, Amar Thyagarajan, has declined to sign this retraction
notice. |
l******a
发帖数: 3339 | 37 hes such a big name and running so many stuff. So he kinda lost control on
some of the small thing. That retraction is more complicated than you
thought, but majority of the ppl came out of his lab are good scientist.
it
Did
a
well.
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: 1. I'm truly sorry for that statement. However, I think you notice that it
: is harder to find a job with his name last few years.
: 2. Na, I'm no body. Don't mind me.
: 3. Except he found how many companies that promised translation? If I
: remember correctly, he found one company based on the retracted paper? Did
: you know the story about that particular technology? I don't want to make a
: statement here.
: 4. Sure, you don't Prof. UC. Btw, you are telling me the email send to
: everyone is not based on truth and describe Schultz lab culture pretty well.
: You might not have overlap with those people in question though, and
|
