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w**********9
发帖数: 242 | 1 I did not read paper or get information from anyone. But, from pieces of
information here and there, I can figure out the basis of neuroanatomy of
Xiao's procedure. Let me try to explain to some people who may want to know.
1), Normal reflex
Touch sensation which the patient uses to scratch the leg is the fucntion of
dorsal sensory nerves. The normal Reflex like ankle reflex works because
signals transmit from muscle to sensory nerve----> doral root ganglion----->
dorsal horn spinal cord---->interneurons in dorsal horn----->ventral spinal
motor neuron---->ventral nerve-----> muscle-----> movement of muscle
2), Xiao's procedure
He grafts the ventral nerve to parasympathetic nerve. therefore, when the
patient scratch the skin, the singal is transmitted to interneuron in dorsal
horn---->ventral motor neuron--->ventral nerve---> parasympathetic nerve---
-> Detrusor muscle---->Urination.
therefore, xiao's procedure hijacks the efferent singal of normal reflex to
detrusor muscle of bladder, therefore patient can control their urination by
scratching.
II), Why his procedure can work?
1), Both ventral nerve and parasympathetic nerve use achetocholine as
neurotransmitter.
So, as long as the nerve grow together, they can work together.
2), In 1980's, doctors from Canada demonstrated the periphery nerves can
regenerate, they did it in sciatic neurve of mice.
III), why xiao's procedure is significant.
1), the motor nerve and parasympathetic nerve have different characteristics
. for example, motor nerve is mylinated while parasympathetic nerve is not.
Therefore, the speed of axon transmittion is different. The patients need
some time to adapt. Anyway, I think Xiao's procedure demonstrated it WORKS
for grafting two kinds of nerves.
2), Without normal urination, bladder catheteration can cause severe
infections that cause life, not just inconenvience. So Xiao's procedure is
LIFE SAVING procedure. | h****i
发帖数: 254 | 2 有人质疑这反射弧对排尿没有真正作用，说是“腹压排尿”。
http://www.sciencenet.cn/m/user_content.aspx?id=280348
know.
of
->
spinal
【在 w**********9 的大作中提到】
: I did not read paper or get information from anyone. But, from pieces of
: information here and there, I can figure out the basis of neuroanatomy of
: Xiao's procedure. Let me try to explain to some people who may want to know.
: 1), Normal reflex
: Touch sensation which the patient uses to scratch the leg is the fucntion of
: dorsal sensory nerves. The normal Reflex like ankle reflex works because
: signals transmit from muscle to sensory nerve----> doral root ganglion----->
: dorsal horn spinal cord---->interneurons in dorsal horn----->ventral spinal
: motor neuron---->ventral nerve-----> muscle-----> movement of muscle
: 2), Xiao's procedure
| w**********9
发帖数: 242 | 3 I am not interested in involving in this. Just two points for those comments
listed in the sciencenet.cn
1), 切断了S2和S3神经前根 should not affect detrusor muscle. This muscle is
innervated by parasymathetic nerve. It is my understanding that Xiao's
procedure graft the nerve at the point before parasympathetic nerve joining
in the anterior root. The distance from outlet of spinal cord to the joint
point is about 10 center meter.
2), The abdominal pressure is a basic consideration. I think doctors in the
hospital can distinguish the difference between contraction produced by the
detrusor muscle of bladder and the pressure produced by contraction of
diapharam and abdominal muscles. | j****2
发帖数: 281 | 4 whiteiver09, 如果不是学医或生物，等这样问，很不错了。
如果你是学医的，说明对盆骶的神经解剖有待加强，时间长了，生了也很正常。
1. 骶副交感神经是和骶部运动神经一起从椎管出来的，接神经应该从解剖上看，已经
在马尾那里就对接了，不太可能在更外周，或者更下面。而不是在你说的那个后来加入
，后来加入主要是有少部分交感加入。
2. 这个单凭肉眼观察不行，最好是尿流动力学鉴别，就是正常的排尿有时候腹压也要
起协助作用，膀胱有没有收缩，医生看肉眼是看不出来的，连排尿人自己也不知道膀胱
有没有收缩的，人能感觉到膀胱尿胀，但不可能知道膀胱收缩的。 | w**********9
发帖数: 242 | 5 whiteiver09, 如果不是学医或生物，等这样问，很不错了。
如果你是学医的，说明对盆骶的神经解剖有待加强，时间长了，生了也很正常。
1. 骶副交感神经是和骶部运动神经一起从椎管出来的，接神经应该从解剖上看，已经
在马尾那里就对接了，不太可能在更外周，或者更下面。而不是在你说的那个后来加入
，后来加入主要是有少部分交感加入。 | w**********9
发帖数: 242 | 6 对了.我打酱油的. 但俺也不知道打酱油是嘛意思. 是不是就是顺路看看的意思? |
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