o**1
发帖数: 6383 | 1 ☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
aben (hehe) 于 (Sat Oct 16 23:52:21 2010, 美东) 提到:
前两年诺贝尔和平奖，不论是戈尔，还是obama，国际上各大媒体
都有非常明显的争议性。
只有这次刘晓波，国际上各大媒体，不论左右，conservative还是liberal
一边倒的祝贺刘晓波骂TG，貌似从来没有那么一致过。
说老实话，我本来以为以TG这些年存的那么多外汇储备，收买一两
个所谓“国际友人”，一两个有点影响外国媒体骂骂诺贝尔委员会，
应该还是做得到的，但是到现在都一个多礼拜了，只有一个从来没有
听说过的什么“挪威教授”，还有个美国老年愤青在自己blog的博文
里面指责诺贝尔（人家即使指责诺贝，也没有说TG一个好字），TG喉舌
为了增强影响力，仍是造谣给人家戴了个“CNN VP”的头衔，贻笑大方
难怪啊，菌斑EUV等几个著名五毛这个礼拜都发疯了。
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mofia (Mofia) 于 (Sat Oct 16 23:55:29 2010, 美东) 提到:
呵呵，连朝鲜古巴都不说话，好不容易才找到一个挪威叫兽
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tgbyhn (CNN) 于 (Sat Oct 16 23:55:39 2010, 美东) 提到:
国际媒体？
国际媒体没兴趣
也没啥报道
国际人民弄不清刘晓波是个什么东东
就是mitbbs 在亢奋中
特别是老将
夜夜起彷徨
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hairi (搞一个女机器人当情妇) 于 (Sat Oct 16 23:57:50 2010, 美东) 提到:
什么叫做现在
老将去年没有觉得土工是过街老鼠么？
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aben (hehe) 于 (Sun Oct 17 00:01:24 2010, 美东) 提到:
这篇文章在菌斑被那个roseriver秒删，相反小将们疯狗一样骂人
的贴好好，那几个班副真是个职业渣滓
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powershadow (鲍鱼○英语好好玩) 于 (Sun Oct 17 00:06:07 2010, 美东) 提到:
其实还是那一句……
不管讲大话讲小话，都可能在不同的时候有不同的结果
有时候可能是好，有时候可能是坏。
最重要的，只能是讲真相。
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hairi (搞一个女机器人当情妇) 于 (Sun Oct 17 00:06:15 2010, 美东) 提到:
跟你说这个网站就一个5毛，就是钻风
你还不敢反
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whisperwave (没想到) 于 (Sun Oct 17 00:15:21 2010, 美东) 提到:
一个人越疯狂就说明其心里越害怕，
菌斑那几个职业选手再撒野也改变不了现实.
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tgbyhn (CNN) 于 (Sun Oct 17 00:21:29 2010, 美东) 提到:
老将又撒谎
不但古巴抨击了，委内瑞拉也嘲弄诺贝尔奖
古巴前领导人卡斯特罗（ Fidel Castro）常发表个人专栏文章的国家媒体之一
Cubadebate上周末刊登一篇文章写道，“希望曾享有盛誉的诺贝尔奖在其漫长历史中传
达的意识形态攻击仅此一例，而不是新的另外一个。”这一看法由古巴政府媒体自身评
论员M. H. Lagarde签名。
Lagarde将8日获得诺贝尔和平奖的中国异见人士刘晓波同古巴政府某种异见人士（古巴
所称的美国“代理人”）作对比。Lagarde说：“刘晓波的个人履历实际上与美国几十
年来雇佣的古巴‘异见人士’类型毫无差别”。
委内瑞拉总统查韦斯（Hugo Chavez）10日也通过广播和电视节目嘲笑其政敌赞扬刘晓
波获得诺贝尔和平奖。查韦斯表示，“这位（刘晓波）和奥巴马一样”，诺贝尔和平奖
不应该颁给他们。查韦斯还批评其政敌“不如美国人”，并称政敌支持刘晓波获奖就是
西方国家的“马屁精”。
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tgbyhn (CNN) 于 (Sun Oct 17 00:24:20 2010, 美东) 提到:
老将是鸵鸟只看自己想看的
俄新社10月8日发表该社政治观察家尼古拉·特洛伊茨基的署名文章，认为诺贝尔和平
奖沦为西方政治工具。以下为该篇文章的摘要：
颁发2010年诺贝尔奖的日子恰好赶上两个值得记忆的日子。35年前的10月9日，安
德烈·萨哈罗夫院士被授予诺贝尔和平奖。20年前的10月15日，苏联的首任和最后一任
总统戈尔巴乔夫被授予同样奖项。
如同当年的萨哈罗夫，今年又一位持不同政见者受到褒奖，他就是中国的刘晓波。
刘难以领奖，因为他11年的徒刑刚刚开始，罪名是“煽动颠覆国家政权”。可以说，历
史正在重演。萨哈罗夫当时也没有机会亲自到奥斯陆领奖。
挪威诺贝尔委员会先是用15年走完了从褒奖苏联持不同政见者到褒奖苏共中央总书
记这段路，然后游遍世界各地，又回到支持联合国安理会常任理事国中“争取基本人权
的斗士”这个原点上，而这些国家并不总是赞同西方的民主概念。
这种看上去迂回曲折的行为方式实际上反映了某种势力在遵循一个坚定的方针。大
家可以自己作判断。从奖励萨哈罗夫到奖励戈尔巴乔夫表明，并不是挪威诺贝尔委员会
成员为人处世的态度变了，而是国际政治发生了重大变化。苏联从冷战中的竞争者和敌
人变成了西方建设性的和肯让步的伙伴，并且温顺地撤离了东欧。戈尔巴乔夫恰恰正是
这种退缩的倡导者，柏林墙恰好倒塌，于是就找到了奖励对象。
由挪威议会组建的诺贝尔委员会为什么要有5位智者呢？按照当初的设想，他们应
该是脱离国际政治因素和只关心人类永恒价值的权威评议机构的成员。诺贝尔曾在自己
的遗嘱中写到，和平奖应该授予为各国人民的团结、消灭奴隶制、减少军队数量和促进
达成和平协议作出重大贡献的人。
然而，这些抽象的范畴经受不住严峻现实的碰撞。诺贝尔和平奖一贯被政治化到极
致。该奖主宰者的取舍和好恶取决于美国、北约和西欧的态度。这方面的例子很好找，
看看刘晓波前面的3个获奖者就足够了。
美国前副总统戈尔“因研究人类活动引起的全球气候变化造成的后果和制定可能加
以防止的措施”而获奖。研究气候变化是重要和有益的事情，但这属于学术领域，它离
争取和平要远一些。
芬兰前总统阿赫蒂萨里则是按照北约和欧盟的模式强硬地解决前南斯拉夫问题的组
织者。他积极支持轰炸塞尔维亚，是科索沃独立的促成者之一。显然，这个因素与其说
导致了和解，不如说导致了巴尔干地区紧张局势的升级。
再说说去年的获奖者美国总统奥巴马。授予他和平奖实在欠妥。当然可以怀疑基辛
格、阿拉法特、拉宾等获奖者追求和平的诚意，但不管怎么说，他们都做了与和平有关
的具体事情，如签署和平条约或解决冲突的计划等，而奥巴马在获奖时还什么都没干。
实际上他是因为基于良好意愿的竞选承诺而预支了奖项。
挪威诺贝尔委员会对美国这个世界大国采取了前所未有的做法，从而导致议论纷纷
。人们认为该委员会没有独立性，其做法毁掉了诺贝尔遗嘱的精神。
将2010年的和平奖授予同中国共产主义政权作斗争的刘晓波完全符合这种“欧洲大
西洋战略”。在冷战正酣的时候，诺贝尔委员会大致上也是这样周期性地奖励苏联政权
最不妥协和最凶恶的敌人。索尔仁尼琴在1970年获得诺贝尔文学奖。表面上他是因“遵
循俄罗斯文学传统”而获奖，但这种说法令人无法不报以嘲讽。后来在1975年，授予萨
哈罗夫和平奖时已不再掩饰政治动机了。
很难说授予中国持不同政见者和平奖是否意味着西方与中国的冷战开始了。不过，
毫无疑问，北京将会把这个决定视为不友好的纯政治举动。
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tgbyhn (CNN) 于 (Sun Oct 17 00:30:01 2010, 美东) 提到:
俄国批评文章
The Nobel Peace Prize, and an Instrument of Western Power
11.10.2010
Pages: 123By Peter Baofu, Ph.D.
Contrary to the China-bashing coverage by mainstream Western media (which
also controls much of global media), the award of the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize
to Liu Xiaobo, an imprisoned Chinese (convicted of violating state laws),
does not promote world peace and prosperity in the long run, for seven major
reasons as explained below.
(1) The first reason is that, contrary to the China-bashing tendency of
mainstream Western media, the Chinese government has done much to promote
freedom at home in the last few decades.
Anne-Marie Brady, a Chinese politics expert at the University of Canterbury
in New Zealand, made an insightful observation in reaction to the decision
by the Norway-based committee to award the prize to Liu, when she said in an
interview (as reported by Charles Hutzler on October 09, 2010) that, in
China nowadays, "the average person has so much more freedom than they ever
had in the post-'49 period. There's a strong feeling of 'don't rock the boat
too far, don't prod into sensitive areas.'"
Not surprisingly, there is a resentment in China that this is under-
appreciated by the West.
(2) The second reason is that, contrary to the China-bashing tendency of
mainstream Western media, the Chinese government has also done much to
contribute to world peace and prosperity in the last few decades.
0
SharePrint version Font Size Send to friendFor instance, under the economic
reform in the past few decades, China has succeeded to do what no other
country could in the history of man, that is, to lift hundreds of million
people out of poverty. More specifically, Albert Park and Sangui Wangb in "
China's Poverty Statistics" showed that the poverty rate in China has
declined from 64% in the late 1970's to 16% in 2004. This is a tremendous
achievement for human rights.
Besides, the dynamic economic growth of China has also become a major engine
of the world's economic growth, precisely because its massive exports are
heavily dependent on massive imports from other economies for raw materials
and other products. While it has a trade surplus with some countries, for
instance, it has a trade deficit with others.
In addition, unlike the earlier modern times when Western powers (like
England, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, the U.S.,
and others) conquered, enslaved, and colonized the rest of the world in
their process of industrialization -- China nowadays has instead invested
billions of dollars in the rest of the world and helped building roads,
railways, sports complexes, hospitals, bridges, schools, and others (even
when it remains a very poor country on a per-capita basis).
Furthermore, the rest of the world has also much benefited from all the
Chinese products and services with lower prices in the last few decades to
enhance world consumption.
Consequently, there is a resentment in China that all these are under-
appreciated by the West.
(3) The third reason is that, contrary to the China-bashing tendency of
mainstream Western media, Liu Xiaobo is not an innocent defender of peace
and freedom in China as popularly depicted.
For instance, in a 1988 interview with Hong Kong's Open Magazine, Liu thus
responded, when asked what it would take for China to change itself more in
line with the modern West: "(It would take) 300 years of colonialism. In 100
years of colonialism, Hong Kong has changed to what we see today. With
China being so big, of course it would take 300 years of colonialism for it
to be able to transform into how Hong Kong is today. I have my doubts as to
whether 300 years would be enough."
It is no wonder that Liu had offended and angered a lot of Chinese
nationalists because of the hidden "treason" in his remark. Although Liu
later tried to calm down the public uproar against him in 2006 by saying
that his remark was not intentional, he refused to retract it.
(4) The fourth reason is that, contrary to the China-bashing tendency of
mainstream Western media, the West has tried hard to subvert China by
nurturing opposition inside the country for a more pro-Western government.
For instance, when the Nobel Peace Prize Committee cited Liu's participation
in the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests, what was not cited is the Western
effort to nurture opposition everywhere to subvert all those regimes which
are different from the West, in the hope to create a pro-Western government
which can serve Western interests.
A good lesson to learn is what happened in the neighborly country,
Kyrgyzstan, earlier this year (in 2010), when, as Konstantin Sivkov aptly
observed, "the events in Kyrgyzstan were engineered by U.S. secret services.
When Kurmanbek Bakiyev was president, depots with weapons designed for the
opposition against him were found. Therefore, we should clearly realize that
U.S. secret services are actively trying to strengthen their position in
the post-Soviet space, not shying away from any methods." Later, when the
opposition succeeded in overthrowing the government by force, they quickly
rewarded the U.S. (for its support of the coup d'etat) with an automatic
renewal of the lease agreement for a U.S. military base in the country (
which President Bakiyev did not quite like when in power).
(5) The fifth reason is that, contrary to the China-bashing tendency of
mainstream Western media, there isno one-style-fits-all solution in
political development, such that there is no political system which is
universally good for all the peoples and all the cultures on Earth.
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For instance, the Nobel Peace Prize Committee also cited Liu's wish for a
fundamental political change of China, like his signature on "Charter 08" in
2008, which is a manifesto for fundamental political transformation in
China comparable to the Western liberal style of democracy -- especially
after the two years (in 1988 and 1989) of being exposed to Western ideas and
values, when he was a visiting scholar at Columbia University, the
University of Oslo and the University of Hawaii. But it is much debatable
whether or not, or to what extent, the Western liberal style of democracy as
so often expressed in Charter 08 and the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests are
really conducive to the development of more freedom and peace in China.
Anyone who has studied Chinese history will notice that the establishment of
peace and order has long been one of the most difficult tasks for all
rulers in the last few thousand years of Chinese history. And whenever the
effort failed, the immense country collapsed into disorder and became the
target of foreign aggression and domination.
It is thus no wonder that even Jackie Chan, the famous Chinese action-movie
actor in Hong Kong, confessed in 2009, when he said: "I'm not sure if it's
good to have freedom or not. If you're too free, you're like the way Hong
Kong is now. It's very chaotic. Taiwan is also chaotic. I'm gradually
beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're not being
controlled, we'll just do what we want."
0
SharePrint version Font Size Send to friendThis remark by Chan is not as
controversial as the China-bashing mainstream Western media would like us to
believe, precisely because, even in the Western intellectual history of
political philosophy, there has been the endless debate about the benefits
and costs of freedom vs. order in both society and culture. A good example
concerns the philosophical disagreement between Thomas Hobbes and John Locke
, just for illustration.
(6) The sixth reason is that, contrary to the China-bashing tendency of
mainstream Western media, the modern West has no genuine interest in
promoting the human rights of the Chinese people. On the contrary, it has
done much to colonize, exploit, and humiliate them, and this has continued
until our days.
The Chinese may still be very poor on a per-capita basis, but they remember
"the 100 years of humiliation" when Western powers divided and conquered
China (especially in the coastal areas). The atrocities and brutality
committed by Western troops in the Far East during the colonial period and
by American soldiers in the Philippines and South Vietnam in the modern era,
for instance, are notorious, when the term "fucking gooks" originated.
Even nowadays, Chinese individuals suffer from widespread racist
discrimination in Western societies. In America, Asians (including the
Chinese) are humiliated by being called "f***** gooks" on a routine basis;
and in Western Europe, they are openly looked down upon as "sick." Many
Westerners do not care much about the human rights of the Chinese, because
they themselves treat the Chinese with racist discrimination in their own (
Western) societies. Rather, they use the discourse of human rights as an
ideological abstraction (and a political pretext) to serve Western interests
(by subverting other countries through the promotion of pro-Western
opposition) for the continuation of Western global dominance.
The West has no respect towards the ideas and values of the Non-West and has
time and again indulged, since the modern era, in lecturing and dictating
to other peoples in the Non-West how and what to behave, both by peaceful
means if possible (e.g., nurturing opposition for the subversion of power)
and by violent means whenever necessary (e.g., bombing, invading, and
occupying weaker countries in the Non-West).
It is in this global context that the West does not welcome the rise of
China (and for that matter, India) and in fact is afraid of it, because it
directly challenges this Western global dominance since the modern era.
Western powers have tried hard to subvert and contain them, especially
against China first and foremost, because of the rapid rise of the latter as
the next superpower. But they also understand that the chance for them to
succeed in stopping China from rising is almost zero. At least, they try to
subvert it, hoping that when the East rises and reaches its peak, it would
serve Western interests when the last days of the West to remain dominant in
the world are imminently over.
(7) Finally, the seventh reason is that, contrary to the China-bashing
tendency of mainstream Western media, the decision to award Liu Xiaobo the
Nobel Peace Prize will perpetuate the vicious cycle of mistrust between
China and the rest of the world (especially the West).
Charles Hutzier in a recent article on the Nobel Peace Prize put it well
when he wrote that the decision "also aggravates the government's view that
China is misunderstood in the world and under-appreciated for all the
progress it has made...a sentiment shared by many Chinese...reinforcing
Chinese feelings of being misperceived." This only fuels the rising tide of
Chinese nationalism, with the subsequent reinforcement of the growing
sentiment among many ordinary folks inside China that the West does not give
the degree of respect towards the Chinese which they rightly deserve for
what they have done for the world
The ideas and ideals of Liu (under Western influence) do not represent those
of the one-billion-plus Chinese population -- but only a few like him,
whose ideas and ideals are exaggerated, nurtured, and glorified by the West
for Western interests.
In light of this long history of modern Western colonial (and now neo-
colonial) history in East Asia, the world would benefit much from a more
stable relationship of cooperation between China and the rest of the world
instead. But this award of the Nobel Peace Prize to someone whom China
regards as a "criminal" (and a "traitor") only helps perpetuating the on-
again-off-again cycle of broken relationship, which destroys the necessary
rhythm to sustain a well developed history of trust and cooperation between
China and the West for long-term world peace and prosperity. Even the U.N.
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon was concerned with the decision of the Norway-
based committee, in that "China's anger at the Nobel might impede rights
work elsewhere," as reported by Charles Hutzier on October 09, 2010.
In the end, the Nobel Peace Prize to Liu Xiaobo underscores a different
message against world peace and prosperity, in a way that mainstream Western
media does not want us to know.
The important point to remember here is not that China is perfect. No, not
at all, China is not perfect, neither is the West. China, like any other
people and country on Earth, has both successes and shortcomings. But to
blame China for its shortcomings by the Norway-based committee (from its own
perspective of Western interests) reveals a heavily biased agenda not much
spoken of in mainstream Western media.
0
SharePrint version Font Size Send to friendLiu Xiaobo, whether he
personally likes it or not, will be increasingly used as an agent for
Western interests, now that he is a recipient of the prize. The Nobel Peace
Prize has become an instrument of Western power, so as to perpetuate the
existing world order for Western dominance -- for the seven reasons as
discussed above.
This hidden politics of the Nobel Peace Prize Committee is not news, as it
has a long history of doing the same (as revealed in its decision to award
Barack Obama last year the Nobel Peace Prize, while, under his
administration, countless innocent civilians are killed on a daily basis by
the U.S. military strikes in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and other places,
besides the widespread destruction of the infrastructures, environments, and
properties in Afghanistan and Iraq, for instance, due to the continued
occupation and military strikes by the U.S. and its Western allies over the
years).
But the West has turned a blind eye to all these continued Western killings
day after day, as Westerners have treated non-Westerners with racist
condescension and inhumanity for so long, even today, without any serious
concern of the lives of the natives, which are regarded as cheap and not
worthy as much when compared with those of Westerners. By contrast, when an
European or an American gets arrested, injured, or killed in the Non-West,
there is an instant international outrage in global media controlled by
mainstream Western media. But the West has turned a blind eye to its own
killings of others (many times over) in the Non-West for so long, with
impunity.
But do not expect the Nobel Peace Prize Committee to change its hidden
politics, as the world will time and again witness more awards in the future
at the service of Western interests and power -- until one day, when its
global dominance is over.
After all, this phenomenon of the Western quest for continued global
dominance is something that I already went to great lengths to explain,
among many other issues, in my 2-volume work titled THE FUTURE OF HUMAN
CIVILIZATION (2000), especially in the context of what I originally called "
hegemonic modernity" in the "trinity of modernity." I then showed that the
Western liberal style of democracy has become more authoritarian as it is
more advanced in another book of mine titled THE RISE OF AUTHORITARIAN
LIBERAL DEMOCRACY (2007) -- and why Western global dominance is in its last
days in still another book of mine titled BEYOND THE WORLD OF TITANS, AND
THE REMAKING OF WORLD ORDER (2007), in the context of what I originally
called the coming age of "the post-post-Cold War era."
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whisperwave (没想到) 于 (Sun Oct 17 00:32:58 2010, 美东) 提到:
LOL，不错，再到伊朗北朝鲜的垃圾堆里面找找
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Shred (Empire State of Mind) 于 (Sun Oct 17 01:23:33 2010, 美东) 提到:
Dr. Peter Baofu, however, is such a person. Coming as he does from the East
– an ethnic Chinese born in Viet Nam
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hereortogo (走或不走) 于 (Sun Oct 17 12:11:10 2010, 美东) 提到:
这个在银河系都传开了，何止地球。
自从小刘获奖，好多人跟我打听她是干吗的
哦也原先陋闻，狗狗下才了解。
从此敬佩之情如自来水，只要没停水，一开水龙头，准有
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tgbyhn (CNN) 于 (Sun Oct 17 12:24:50 2010, 美东) 提到:
我们办公室也有好多同事跑到cubical问我
他们纷纷向我祝贺
让我给讲讲刘小波的事迹
问得人太多
我就组织一次午餐会
大家一边吃，一边听我讲那中国民运的故事
听着听着，许多女同志都留下热泪
一个男同志还留下了鼻涕
和着饭菜一起咽下
大家泣不成声，
下午经过两个manager office还听到他们呜咽
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goodegg (头号变态龌龊文学萎缩男) 于 (Sun Oct 17 12:29:26 2010, 美东) 提到:
你咽下鼻涕没有?
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xedef (fedex) 于 (Sun Oct 17 13:20:36 2010, 美东) 提到:
嗯，看来TG没几天的蹦头了，楼主收拾收拾准备回国竞选总统吧，人民需要你呀。
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Freshman (海边飘来的鞋子) 于 (Sun Oct 17 13:20:46 2010, 美东) 提到:
还有姓‘包袱’的？
East
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zinsser (zinsser) 于 (Sun Oct 17 15:35:40 2010, 美东) 提到:
西方代表了国际?西方人口占世界人口多少啊？自己看看吧
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yrymaomao (轻风冷露) 于 (Sun Oct 17 18:28:32 2010, 美东) 提到:
what an idiot. Why you care about what they are talking about at all
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focke (focke-wolf 190) 于 (Sun Oct 17 19:36:42 2010, 美东) 提到:
小姐穿得太性感啦，小心被你的那帮五毛wsn看中。TG这次全世界受辱，五毛wsn气不打
一处来，正想发疯发泄呢，请小姐多套一件衣服，多保重！
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majia666 (majia666) 于 (Sun Oct 17 21:35:39 2010, 美东) 提到:
其实是大家都人为着个奖已经臭如狗屎了不愿意搀和.
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laomutou (xinren) 于 (Sun Oct 17 21:54:05 2010, 美东) 提到:
你搞错了,这位是著名的五毛. 估计让她给男五毛们当尉按副都愿意.
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platinumegg (蛋,纯铂金的) 于 (Mon Oct 18 08:34:29 2010, 美东) 提到:
也就是西方那些国家羡慕嫉妒恨而已。老将们华丽丽的又想代表全世界。
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JustStopBy (Mark) 于 (Mon Oct 18 14:40:46 2010, 美东) 提到:
那个挪威教授已经出来避谣了. 人间并没有说过那些话. |
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