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Game版 - 转个讲7.0后HE机理改变的影响的帖,爱用derp的应该看看
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相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: surface话题: he话题: damage话题: armor话题: shell
1 (共1页)
p*******r
发帖数: 57
1
原帖:http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/72978-new-he-mechanics-explained-using-crude-illustrations/
First - the crude, rude, and eye-gouging diagram. [And I can't draw in real
life either.] Consider the following "front-side" view of a hypothetical
tank (and ignore all the "underscores" - I just need them for spacing):
___________________DEEEEEE
___________________D
_____GGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
_________________X2D
___________________DCCCCCC
_________________________C
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
A
A
A
X1
A
A
A
For simplicity's sake, I've divided this illustration - nifty, huh - into
several armor surfaces with made-up values, specifically:
- Surface "A" - front hull, assume 150mm armor. Note the impact point X1.
- Surface "B" - top of the front hull compartment, assume 50mm armor.
- Surface "C" - turret ring and the "underneath" section of the turret
itself, assume 10mm armor.
- Surface "D" - turret front slash gun mantlet, assume 200mm armor. Note the
impact point X2.
- Surface "E" - turret top, assume 25mm armor.
- Surface "G" - the gun itself (ignored for the purposes of this example).
Got it? Good.
------
Basic assumptions:
- No ricochets, track hits, shells going off into the blue sky, etc. - i.e.
"perfectly placed shots".
--- Also note that, per the devs, HE rounds always use nominal armor
thickness (i.e. angle of impact does not matter - unlike with AP rounds).
- No penetration (i.e. always use the HE non-penetrating damage formula).
--- For reference, the formula is Damage = (Nominal Damage/2)*(1-Splash/
Distance) - Armor Value * 1.3 * Spalling Modifier
- No spalling installed.
- Damage does not diminish with splash radius (not strictly true, but
simplifies the illustrative calculations).
--- So the formula is simplified to Damage = Nominal/2 - Armor * 1.3 [This
would be effectively the maximum attainable damage in-game - splash equals
zero, no spalling.]
--- You can see from the simplified formula that the key variable is the
thickness of the armor plate against which HE damage is applied (the thinner
the armor, the more HE damage gets through).
------
The Before.
Step 1 - HE round hits the tank.
Step 2 - a sphere equal to the splash radius is generated around the impact
point.
Step 3 - the thinnest armor surface within that sphere is what the damage is
applied against.
-- Remember that for the purposes of our example, damage is the same
throughout the "splash". In reality, damage diminishes (see the full formula
above), so it's a combination of "thinnest as adjusted for splash" surfaces
. But again - I'm trying to keep things simple here.
Example 1 - HE round impacts at Impact Point X1 (Surface A, 150mm thick).
Draw a sphere (a big sphere - but not too big) around that impact point. If
Surface B (50mm thick) falls within that sphere, the damage goes against
Surface B (50mm). Let's assume the damage is applied against Surface B.
Example 2 - HE round impacts at Impact Point X2 (Surface D, 200mm thick).
Let's pretend the gun doesn't exist. The sphere around that point would
capture Surfaces B (50mm), C (10mm), D (200mm) and E (25mm). Under the old
mechanics, it would be applied against Surface C (10mm).
-----
The After.
Step 1 - HE round hits the tank.
Step 2 - several lines are drawn from the impact point to the nearby armor
surfaces. No line crosses "through" an armor surface.
Step 3 - only the surfaces to which an unbroken line can be drawn from the
impact point are compared, and the damage goes against the thinnest (or, in
reality, "thinnest as adjusted for splash") of these surfaces.
Again. Before, you drew a sphere around the impact point, and every surface
within that sphere could be impacted. Post-7.0, you will draw "rays" from
the impact point and only the surfaces contacted by "unbroken" rays will
count.
So let's reconsider Examples 1 and 2.
Example 1a - HE round impacts at Impact Point X1 on Surface A. Note that
there is no way to draw any unbroken lines from point X1 (at least not the
way I created the diagram). Thus, HE damage will necessarily be applied
against Surface A (150mm), and not Surface B (50mm).
Example 2a - HE round impacts at Impact Point X2 on Surface D. Try drawing
unbroken rays from point X2. You can clearly hit Surface D (200mm) and
Surface B (50mm). There is absolutely no way to hit Surface E (25mm) or
Surface C (10mm). Let's assume that Surface B (50mm) is hit as a result. [
Note that if X2 were placed lower, e.g. on the exact "corner" of Surface D,
you could theoretically draw an unbroken line to the turret ring, i.e.
Surface C. But I've deliberately excluded that possibility from this example
.]
-----
Let's review:
- Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing is being done to the HE rounds
themselves.
- Before, you could hit any surface within the splash radius even if you did
not have a "line of sight" from the point of impact to that surface.
- Now, you're going to need "line of sight".
And why not throw in a little illustration? Consider three different HE
rounds: Shell 1 (250 nominal damage); Shell 2 (500 nominal damage); and
Shell 3 (750 nominal damage). I like round numbers, sue me.
Recall that in Example 1/1a (Point X1), under the old system the damage
would go against Surface B (50mm), while under the new system it would go
against Surface A (150mm). The "old" and "new" final damage values (using
our simplified damage formula above) for the three shells would be as
follows:
Shell 1 (before) = 250/2 - 1.3 * 50 = 125 - 65 = 60 damage
Shell 1 (after) = 250/2 - 1.3 * 150 = 125 - 195 = 0 damage
Shell 2 (before) = 500/2 - 1.3 * 50 = 250 - 65 = 185 damage
Shell 2 (after) = 500/2 - 1.3 * 150 = 250 - 195 = 45 damage
Shell 3 (before) = 750/2 - 1.3 * 50 = 375 - 65 = 310 damage
Shell 3 (after) = 750/2 - 1.3 * 150 = 375 - 195 = 180 damage
Clearly, it will no longer pay to shoot into the center of a thick vertical
armor plate with no "line of sight" to thinner armor surfaces.
Now let's consider Example 2/2a (Point X2). Under the old system, the damage
would go against Surface C (10mm) - but under the new system, Surface B (
50mm) would be hit instead.
Shell 1 (before) = 250/2 - 1.3 * 10 = 125 - 13 = 112 damage
Shell 1 (after) = 250/2 - 1.3 * 50 = 125 - 65 = 60 damage
Shell 2 (before) = 500/2 - 1.3 * 10 = 250 - 13 = 237 damage
Shell 2 (after) = 500/2 - 1.3 * 50 = 250 - 65 = 185 damage
Shell 3 (before) = 750/2 - 1.3 * 10 = 375 - 13 = 362 damage
Shell 3 (after) = 750/2 - 1.3 * 50 = 375 - 65 = 310 damage
So you can see this is a much better placed shot (under the new system), but
the smaller shell is still significantly affected (because it can't "see"
the thinner Surface C).
Note that it will probably be a lot tougher to conduct appropriate tests in
the field, even in training rooms, because many tanks now have 16 armor
surfaces and you have to pick a target where you both know the thickness and
the geometrical arrangement of each armor surface. [And geometry matters a
lot - Storm literally gave one example, of a HE round impacting the side
skirt of a Maus, where if the Maus turns its turret just a little off to the
side its thin underside "peeks out" over the impact point and that's where
the "damage ray" ends up pointing.] Enterprising players will probably come
up with a way to get an approximation, but...well, see the section below.
-----
Tactical implications.
- Where you shoot matters. I.e. you can't just lob rounds into the front
hull plate of a Tiger I (Point X1 above) and expect fantastically terrific
results. Using HE effectively will now involve things like "bouncing" the
splash off the lower edge of the turret (Point X2 moved to the lower "corner
" of Surface D, so that it can "see" the turret ring or Surface C) to hit
the thinner top armor surfaces - or something along those lines. Obviously,
the traditional weak spots for AP shells (e.g. the R2D2 turret on the KV-5)
are also good aiming points.
- Small HE rounds care about placement a lot. Big HE rounds care about
placement not-very-much. See the examples above - a round with just 250
damage can get completely negated if it hits the wrong surface, whereas a
giant ball of explosives from the KV-2's 152mm gun will probably not care a
great deal (ok, it will care to some extent, but a significant portion of
the damage is getting through regardless, especially once you recall that -
once more, with feeling - HE ignores sloping, i.e. tanks like the IS series
that rely on sloped armor for survival are particularly vulnerable to well-
placed HE shots).
- Side screens will now work wonders. Because a screen will "block" a HE
round's "rays" (to the extent that the screen isn't actually penetrated or "
destroyed" by the explosion).
- Artillery impact somewhat uncertain. I'm not an experienced SPG driver (a
couple of hundred games in the lower-level machines, but not much more).
Presumably, top armor hits are going to stay just as effective, more or less
; hits that penetrate will definitely be just as effective as before; but
splashes near the tank or against, say, a heavily sloped front plate might
end up hitting a thick armor surface or else the side anti-HE screens and
not doing very much of anything. Tracking, at the most.
So there you have it. Hopefully this is a relatively clear explanation of
the matter, at least as I see it. To keep things constructive, please limit
the "this sucks! they killed Kenny!" comments to the extent physically
possible.
g***3
发帖数: 2304
2
好长,求中文摘要
x****u
发帖数: 12955
3

In short, after 7.0, HE blast will only find the weakest armor that it has a
direct path to. where in 6.7, it will find the weakest armor in the blast
radius, regardless if there's a direct path.
So HE round should be fired against turret after patch 7.0.

【在 g***3 的大作中提到】
: 好长,求中文摘要
s********o
发帖数: 3783
4
我来给个简单摘要:
1、6.7:如果你只能看见敌人最厚的一块装甲,并且你用HE射中了这里
HE弹会分摊到敌人身上的一大片区域
这片区域里如果有弱点(即使你看不见),你的HE会对这里产生伤害
因此总伤害比较大
2、7.0:你的HE只能分摊到你能看看见的位置
因此在上面的例子里,你的HE几乎无法对敌人造成伤害
3、总结:HE也要瞄弱点
不瞄弱点时,HE的威力越小,受到的本次修改影响越大,
小炮HE弹打正面装甲将很难“蹭血”

real

【在 p*******r 的大作中提到】
: 原帖:http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/72978-new-he-mechanics-explained-using-crude-illustrations/
: First - the crude, rude, and eye-gouging diagram. [And I can't draw in real
: life either.] Consider the following "front-side" view of a hypothetical
: tank (and ignore all the "underscores" - I just need them for spacing):
: ___________________DEEEEEE
: ___________________D
: _____GGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
: _________________X2D
: ___________________DCCCCCC
: _________________________C

c****n
发帖数: 21367
5
kv152正面对轰Maus的年代一去不复返了...

【在 s********o 的大作中提到】
: 我来给个简单摘要:
: 1、6.7:如果你只能看见敌人最厚的一块装甲,并且你用HE射中了这里
: HE弹会分摊到敌人身上的一大片区域
: 这片区域里如果有弱点(即使你看不见),你的HE会对这里产生伤害
: 因此总伤害比较大
: 2、7.0:你的HE只能分摊到你能看看见的位置
: 因此在上面的例子里,你的HE几乎无法对敌人造成伤害
: 3、总结:HE也要瞄弱点
: 不瞄弱点时,HE的威力越小,受到的本次修改影响越大,
: 小炮HE弹打正面装甲将很难“蹭血”

c****3
发帖数: 6038
6
这就是为什么我给我的KV买了一堆金币蛋

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: kv152正面对轰Maus的年代一去不复返了...
l*********g
发帖数: 975
7
老鼠表示非常满意

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: kv152正面对轰Maus的年代一去不复返了...
s********o
发帖数: 3783
8
粗略的HE计算公式:
坦克身上由很多块护甲组成,每块护甲的护甲值是固定的。
比如说正面护甲190mm的坦克,
可能在护甲中间有个只有50mm护甲的区域(观察口机枪口之类的)
单次HE的伤害是在一个伤害上下限之间的随机数
HE对每块护甲伤害为:
该次HE伤害值 * 0.5 * 距离衰减 - 1.3 * 该护甲的护甲值
如果这个值小于0则为0
距离衰减具体不详
最终伤害是HE对每块“可见”护甲的加权总和
权重与该护甲跟击中点的距离有关。具体如何有关不详

【在 s********o 的大作中提到】
: 我来给个简单摘要:
: 1、6.7:如果你只能看见敌人最厚的一块装甲,并且你用HE射中了这里
: HE弹会分摊到敌人身上的一大片区域
: 这片区域里如果有弱点(即使你看不见),你的HE会对这里产生伤害
: 因此总伤害比较大
: 2、7.0:你的HE只能分摊到你能看看见的位置
: 因此在上面的例子里,你的HE几乎无法对敌人造成伤害
: 3、总结:HE也要瞄弱点
: 不瞄弱点时,HE的威力越小,受到的本次修改影响越大,
: 小炮HE弹打正面装甲将很难“蹭血”

s********o
发帖数: 3783
9
而且,HE与倾斜角度无关,相当于永远垂直入射
IS7正面悲催了。
但是倾角越大,可见面积就越少,
所以在可见面积已经很大的情况下,倾角完全无用
如果倾角能导致可见面积变的很小,就有用

【在 s********o 的大作中提到】
: 粗略的HE计算公式:
: 坦克身上由很多块护甲组成,每块护甲的护甲值是固定的。
: 比如说正面护甲190mm的坦克,
: 可能在护甲中间有个只有50mm护甲的区域(观察口机枪口之类的)
: 单次HE的伤害是在一个伤害上下限之间的随机数
: HE对每块护甲伤害为:
: 该次HE伤害值 * 0.5 * 距离衰减 - 1.3 * 该护甲的护甲值
: 如果这个值小于0则为0
: 距离衰减具体不详
: 最终伤害是HE对每块“可见”护甲的加权总和

x****u
发帖数: 12955
10

不是分摊到你能看见的位置,而是HE弹着点能直线连接到的位置。6.7里面是以HE弹着
点的爆炸范围内所有装甲里最弱的为准计算伤害,不管是不是被遮挡。
7.0里面打车身就很难伤到车甲板装甲和炮塔圈装甲。需要打炮塔来增加这样的机会。

【在 s********o 的大作中提到】
: 我来给个简单摘要:
: 1、6.7:如果你只能看见敌人最厚的一块装甲,并且你用HE射中了这里
: HE弹会分摊到敌人身上的一大片区域
: 这片区域里如果有弱点(即使你看不见),你的HE会对这里产生伤害
: 因此总伤害比较大
: 2、7.0:你的HE只能分摊到你能看看见的位置
: 因此在上面的例子里,你的HE几乎无法对敌人造成伤害
: 3、总结:HE也要瞄弱点
: 不瞄弱点时,HE的威力越小,受到的本次修改影响越大,
: 小炮HE弹打正面装甲将很难“蹭血”

s****y
发帖数: 1200
11
你的92完了.

【在 l*********g 的大作中提到】
: 老鼠表示非常满意
1 (共1页)
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来个人点评以下T127吧除了我 还有谁加了152神教的
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相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: surface话题: he话题: damage话题: armor话题: shell