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发帖数: 212 | 1 https://www.teamblind.com/article/Why-S386-should-not-pass-but-will-pass-
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There are two problems:
1. Too many candidates from one particular country. When diversity is not
kept people don’t integrate, communicate between their culture only, bring
all their relatives, hire only from their country, nothing good. No any
country should get more than 10% of H1B or GC.
2. The way India abuses H1B flooding and even selling applications (what is
against the US law).
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/06/us/outsourcing-companies-
dominate-h1b-visas.html
This problem #2 prevents from talented people from another countries get
their H1B visas.
Even if we solve problem #2 (say by raising minimal wage) we still should
have country cap and don’t allow one country get more than 10% of H1B and
GCs.
Bill S386 doesn’t solve any of these issues, should not pass. Instead it
will allow Indian H1B abusing companies let their current H1B holders go,
and sell another 10 years of H1B to next army of IT refugees. Also if passed
non Indian queues will be waiting for several years while Indian
applications are processed.
But the bill probably will pass because most of those senators don’t really
care about the country. They said they will pass the bill if it will allow
to import thousands of NURSES 🤦♂️from overseas. They
don’t even think what is wrong with this country, why we cannot provide our
own nurses.
So guys from non Indian countries, get ready for the worst 😎
How Outsourcing Companies Are Gaming the Visa System
How Outsourcing Companies Are Gaming the Visa System
favicon Nytimes
Why S386 should not pass, but will pass
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TOP 113 Comments
Walmart lotsoflove
If Indian born apply for GC right now, he won’t get it in his life time
. He has to slave off his ass here still never gets GC but all others get
their GC in one year(except China). Don’t you have mercy on those Indians ?
Just because people like come up with hypothetical situations on
comminution or hiring (if a Indian and other race stand same in interviews I
would hire other race rather Indian, I have hired enough people in my life)
. Let everyone be treated equal or merit based.
Walmart lotsoflove
By calling me moron, dumb, stupid you don’t become scholar.
Google / Eng hooli.xyz
“become scholar”
Wtf did I just read? 😂
Ok, you’re just trolling at this point.
EPAM Systems +d!çk
Just do the needful
Walmart lotsoflove
Believe me it wasn’t troll. If I had to then I would call you “Scholar of
Immigration” 😂 take a chill pill and enjoy your rest of Sunday.
Hope I didn’t cause your BP to cross normal limits(pun intended) 😄
Cisco tonic101
@hooli.xyz you do seem to really hate Indians and India. I feel sorry for
you. Calm down, it will make you a happier person.
Credit Karma Fries 🍟
If you are not hater and posted for genuine reason - read US immigration
history.
Lot of Europeans came in from same countries in masses. So, US should not
allow Europeans now for diversity? Why is there a diversity visa? 140k GC
max for EB, US population is 330 million!
It simply doesn't make sense to not allow people paying 50-100k taxes not
give a GC in name of diversity! There is entire diversity lottery, 50k out
of the box.
How is US benefitting by not giving Google L6 Indian GC but give green card
to a new grad at no name US company because he/she is from different country?
If consultancy abused H1B so much, why not question USCIS and DOL?
Europeans helped build US so did Indians, US people may be great founders,
but leaders always need followers and people who can execute. So many Indian
CEOs and all are working for tech future and it keeps US competetive. You
just can't have leaders and not enough people to execute idea!
Microsoft bbobd
This is misleading. The same arguments stay for other country if s386
passed.
How is US benefiting by not giving Google L6 non Indian GC but giving
green card to a ICC low pay cheater?
If the Indian backlog that ridiculously long, why not try questioning
the ICC application flood, before this brute force solution?
You can’t assume the backlog in Indian GC queue are just L6s and CEOs.
This is simply statistically not true.
Credit Karma Fries 🍟
It's the job of USCIS to catch fraud if there is fraud happening. They are
the ones with investigative power and visa issuing authority.
What you expect, Indians stand outside US embassy and not let consultancy
folks enter embassy so they don't get visa?
Department of Labor, DHS, USCIS should do this work. Reject all consultancy
visa, why are they not rejecting it?
US likes to take advantage & complain too. US wants cheap labor is fact so
they do nothing. They can solve illegal immigration also in minutes but they
need low wage workers to work in farms, restaurants so they allow it.
They can't have it both ways, it's hypocrisy.
Harsh reality is US needs cheap workers in any category more than high
skilled people & so off the record US government lets everything happen.
US can afford to let Google L6 go but they need that consultancy people to
keep their economy running so corporate can earn $$$$, so USCIS is doing
nothing much!
Credit Karma Fries 🍟
Also how ridiculous is lottery for H1B, even that is not merit based! FAANG
or unicorn people can't get visa but consultancy can get it, 100% luck no
hardwork.
No work is happening anywhere, I said in next comment why not merit based
than this stupid bill but as I said, harsh reality is US don't give a damn
about ROW, merit based etc. As long as some system allows US corporations to
earn $$$$, it will not change!
Goldman Sachs gACr23
I am completely against the idea of abusing the h1b or GC system but I also
don't agree on the fact that people who are most eligible (why should this
be limited by countries?) simply have to wait for the sake of diversity.
This reminds me of SC/ST and other casting/quota system in India where
people only cared about where or how you were born than what YOU are..
Amazon / Eng TCorGTfi
Canada express entry is definitely not stopped. They have never been
importing more immigrants. Source: I hold Canadian pr
Microsoft bbobd
If you don’t agree with eligible people have to wait, guess what with s386
the rest of the world will now start suffering that.
This is why s386 is terrible. It doesn’t really solve ANY real problem, it
’s just trying to make everyone’s life equally worse but let the innocent
part of Indian fellows feel like they got better deal.
How about instead of dragging the ROW into the same horrible situation,
fight the right enemy first, which is ICC that occupies Indian GC queue???
Bloomberg cap777
There is already a diversity based GC. 50k people get GC from low
immigration country. Is that not enough for diversity.
Capital One cAki40
Just because a lot of unfortunate Indians got blocked in a longer line
because of their fellow Indians, it doesn't mean the rest of the world
should...
Bloomberg cap777
Well let Congress decide that. We have waited for a long time. Let it be
fair for every one to have equal wait time
Google louc
Why wouldn’t Indians lobby their own country to split instead of hoping US
laws change? Country cap is not a bug. It’s a feature.
Google / Eng hooli.xyz
“So you are seriously telling me your views on per-country quotas will not
change if the white European and not brown Indians were to be on the
receiving end of this policy?”
Why would my views change? We are simply talking about countries after all,
not skin color nor how much a person makes.
Again, I really don’t see how your questions have anything to do with the
issue at hand.
First, you bring up the false notion that EU is homogeneous — which it is
not. But even if it is, it is not even related to anything close to country
caps.
Next, you bring up white skin vs brown skin which again has absolutely no
relation to country cap. Are you seriously suggesting we take skin color
into account when figuring out GC allotments? Do you realize how racist you
sound?
Now, you are bringing salary into the picture? What’s your deal man? Really?
At this point, I don’t even know what you’re trying to prove. You are all
over the place and I am not even sure we are talking about country caps
anymore.
So the only conclusions left is that you are just trolling. Which is not
surprising, because someone tried to accuse me of being a racist in another
thread.
Therefore, that leaves me no choice but to ignore you starting now.
Gilead Sciences / R&D “...”
The point of homogeneity of European population came up because proponents
of this policy keep harping about diversity. Hence I am asking you to prove
that there is any truth to the assertion that keeping India at 7%, but
allowing every single small European country have it's own quota achieving
the goal of diversity? You are stuck on "homogeneity" but you are
deliberately ignoring the entire context of that conversation.
Next, salary comes into play because it is directly tied to contribution.
For those who say American system is no charity, sure fair argument. So I am
asking which kind of immigrant is more likely to succeed and help America
succeed?
Someone with a Business Major from Europe with 80k TC after 5 YOE, or
another engineer from India with a 500k TC. I would love to know your answer
because it will help me understand your logic.
So it is not about diversity as we have already established (but still
happens to be the favorite talking point of the proponents of this policy),
then why do you need a per system that keeps more capable, more qualified
immigrant out just because they happened to be born on the wrong side of the
world? There is a clearly racist undertone to continued existence of a law
that was made in the 1800s? That's exactly what Lee Cissna was implying when
he said he wanted "diversity" in employment based immigration. How can you
not see that, I fail to understand.
I did not accuse you of being racist so please don't play that game. But you
must be completely blind to the blatant name calling from Europeans and
others towards Indians on these forums.
Google louc
Too many immigrants from a single country shaping up the workforce in US is
politically dangerous for the US. Diversity has multiple aspects not just
race. They have similar interests that would be at odds to the US interests
and in favor of their country (being a singular political entity).
Gilead Sciences / R&D “...”
Politically dangerous? Exactly how? Please explain?
Perhaps again, you guys should read about India. There is no single
ethnicity, culture, language, political ideology in India.
As I said, show me a measure of diversity and then prove to me India is any
less diverse than the whole of Europe. Till then it is a moot point
Google louc
Let’s say there’s a war between US and India. Or an election situation
that favors India.
Groupon / Eng sleepy
OP please check that there’s a cap against people from one country can not
make up more than 15% of immigrants in the USA overall. That takes care of
problem #1. The current amendment only targets EB visas. Indians are only 6%
of overall immigrants.
On #2 immigrants are individuals and not representative of their place of
birth. Soviet era people were welcome to immigrate to the USA despite the
Cold War. Whatever Indian companies do or did are to be dealt with those
entities, not with immigrants. None think Einstein should not be able to
immigrate because he’s from Nazi Germany.
I’m an India born US citizen. I’m sad to see people literally calling for
discrimination against us. It’s our immigration policy and we should get
rid of place of birth criteria. The merit based is the way to go but that’s
a longer fight.
Groupon / Eng sleepy
Steal means what exactly? There’s nothing in the law or spirit that it has
to have a country quota. The problem was these were used for replacing
Americans.
Limit exceeded is by design as there are 100k+ H1B L1B O1 visas granted
every year while only 120k GCs here. H1B with dependent alone exceeds 200k+.
So there’s not enough space at all.
New duzJ30
OP
@groupon “Steal” means Indian flooding body shops selling the applications
to unqualified Indians stole position in H1B queue from talented people
from another countries. Some of them applied but did win lottery (because of
spamming and flooding), some didn’t even apply expecting low chance to win
the lottery.
Anyway, problem #2 is an actual issue to be solved, which bill S386 doesn’t
try to solve. Also this problem should give better understanding to Indians
where is the army of Indians applied previous years exceeding the limits is
coming from.
Groupon / Eng sleepy
Indians gets 6% of GCs. You forgot the non EB categories.
I’m India born and those are unwanted in the USA. If you make a rule that
makes AfAms, who are otherwise equal, unwanted here, you’re going against
the existing AfAms too. Asians were banned from immigrating to USA for a
good part of American history. That’s something Asians still talk about.
Groupon / Eng sleepy
H1b lottery is a recent thing. A lot of Indians in the queue may not even
come through the lottery.
And the lottery system is another American problem. It is used so that low
paid nurses are not cut all together from the visas. We should fix that.
Again, why is this has to do with an Indian immigrating to the USA? It’s
American problem that lobbyists want to protect low cost nursing positions.
Groupon / Eng sleepy
Anyway guys, I check out now. Happy fighting and thanks for staying decent.
:)
Credit Karma Fries 🍟
But also S386 is not solution. Believe it or not, Trump's merit based is
solution.
Even after S386, a person from India applying GC today will take 14 years!
It doesn't make any sense to not implement merit
Microsoft lHcN54
Exactly right. People don't realize that they still will have to wait
about 15 years, NOT get their green card within "a couple of years"
Amazon BillyF
The law will not do what it claims to do, it will not remove the backlog.
First year 160K people apply for green cards, 140K granted, 20K placed into
backlog.
Second year 160K more people apply, 20+120 new green cards granted, 40K are
sent to backlog.
Third year again plus 160 minus 140, and the backlog now 60K.
Such mismatch of supply vs. demand is exactly why backlog exists in the
first place, and this bill will do literally nothing about it.
Lawmakers should come up with a real solution (points/auction/etc) rather
than indulging a dozen of companies to continue spamming the system.
Last time I checked larger part of the backlog is cheap labor that never
deserved to have visas. The backlog should be cleared in a way that passes
meritable Indians immediately but keeps delaying pseudoconsultants forever.
Giving a free pass to people who gamed the system under excuse of fairness
to the legit ones is a shitty way of doing things, and exactly what they
wanted.
Gilead Sciences / R&D “...”
Merit-based is totally possible if it's heavily weighed on TC. OP what are
you 🚬 ??
Little disclaimer: Indian here (EB1 awaiting GC), don't like this bill,
totally love the 50%+ H1B rejection rate, but your argument of diversity is
BS. India is already more diverse than the whole of Europe, so WTF
subjecting 1.1 billion people to the same cap as 300k from Iceland.
If diversity is so important, then entire EU+Australia should be under one
cap, entire Arab world under one, Southern Africa under one, and Latino
world under one. Oh, then what do you do about the Nazis that fled to
Argentina? 🤔
Maybe it is time to accept that it is not the fault of Indians that our
grandparents learnt to stay united despite cultural and religious
differences.
Bloomberg LOL
TC shouldn’t be used as a metric for giving green cards .
It’s the market demand which necessitates that .
If there is a shortage in farmer sand apple pickers but shit ton of
engineers , we cannot continue to give away green cards to engineers and
stress the farming market out of business.
Demand and supply
Gilead Sciences / R&D “...”
I am sorry I have to disagree. If there is really a demand, then TC will go
up for that occupation. If TC doesn't go up, then "demand" is an illusion.
You work for Bloomberg, I presume you have some idea of microeconomics
Bloomberg LOL
Yes I do , no one will pay 6 figr salaries to orange pickers , only the
economy will move else where to Central America or gets automated if it’s
easy enough like manufacturing and maybe in future like truck driving .
The salary based green card give away would definitely help people like me
but such societies are unsustainable.
And moving economies have huge impact of a whole region compared to just
bringing in workers to sustain it locally.
We don’t want California/Florida/Texas to turn in to Detroit or even the
other end like SFO
Gilead Sciences / R&D “...”
Let's see, how do you think flooding the market with whole lot of lowly paid
workers will help the country in that way? It will only accelerate job
losses for American citizens, like it or not. Just like it happened in IT
industry after the market was flooded with all the Indian "techies".
The economy has been changing and will keep changing over time. Some jobs
that paid very well 20 years ago, may be completely outsourced or automated
over the next decade. Detroit didn't happen because there were no immigrants
supporting Detroit. It happened because of globalization that made it
several times cheaper to manufacture in Mexico and China.
America is better served by focusing immigration policy on getting future
job-creators. And yes those will be the highest TC folks for the obvious
reasons.
Uber / Eng GbGi84
When speaking equality or fareness, think about Indian H1b abusers and
outsoursers. These people are already taken away jobs from US workers. They
will finally ruin industries of US with nepotism and unqualified outsouring
work. Think about the tragedy of Boeing. As someone said in another thread,
to the privileged, equality is unfair!
Google LyLs67
Racist dogwhistle noted
Facebook / Eng pookyh
Which part of the post was racist ?
Airbnb airtime
Fix the consultant companies h1b issues, let every green card and h1b
application be scrutinized more. Making well deserved candidates wait for
decades is not the solution and doing this based on their country of birth
is unfair and goes against the US Constitution.
Intel / Eng mid life
It’s got nothing to do with against the constitution. Your whole argument
doesn’t make sense. Why don’t you use the same argument and let every non
Indian take away job in India?
Merit based immigration makes sense if implemented correctly.
Gilead Sciences / R&D “...”
I was pointing to your statement about 7% "existing for a reason". AirBnB is
right that 7% goes against the founding principle of America that all "are
created equal".
Oh the constitution also permitted slavery and banned women from voting back
in the day. I am guessing you either don't know much about American history
or just lack the ability to make logical arguments. Which one is it, I am
curious 😀😀
You are somehow arguing for a merit-based system while also supporting an
arcane 1800s law that goes totally goes against the premises of the
constitution and also against that of a merit-based system. Kudos to you if
you somehow make sense to yourself.
Oh did you know that even Trump's merit-based proposal explicitly mentions
removal of per-country caps? Perhaps you should educate yourself on that too
a little bit.
New duzJ30
OP
Country cap was not created in 1800s. It’s created to do not allow one
country to find a backdoor as India did and get all the green cards. Country
cap is a right thing and should exist.
Bloomberg LOL
Nube! These are regular people willing to migrate to these United states by
cutting there ties from their country of birth !
They are not part of some grand conspiracy by a country.
You are either white and scared of loosing majority
Or
Some recent hippocratic immigrant who is scared of loosing your privilege
Stop trying to control everything around you and live a life
People who believe every aspect of there lives around them can be control
either end up depressed or dead
Gilead Sciences / R&D “...”
Law not created in the 1800s? Backdoor entry?? Invasion of the US by India
by sending people on visas? 🙉🙉🙉🙉. What else,
are you a believer in alternative facts??
Which country did you come from? Obviously they are not sending the
brightest. Perhaps we need to look into that.
Intel / Eng mid life
🍿
Amazon / Eng asdfteew
It's the job of USCIS and DOL to make sure companies applying for H1B is
legit. We cannot relate this with GC.
Second getting GC for a specific country taking 100s of years is not a good
thing. Instead don't allow them at first place. Almost all industries using
Indian citizens to create wealth and these poor guys paying every other tax
without any benefits and living a sick life here. If we are not allowing
these people for 100s of years for GC, don't allow them to work here at
first place then see the future and economy of US industries.
If this is impacting diversity what the diversity visa program doing?
Whoever speaking about diversity should remember that India has 17+
officially recognized languages and 15+ sizeable religions following
different cultures. India itself a diversity country ... How come someone
claims more Indians in US will impact diversity?
Don't post hate posts with miniscule knowledge.
LinkedIn Humphrey G
It's easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be’, especially when
what is has worked out in your favor - Tyrion Lannister
New VQWA58
I know the outsourcing companies are gaming the system. But what about the
genuine indian applicants who have gone to prestigious universities and are
working at big companies. This solution will be harmful for other countries
for some time but it will level the playing field for the rest of the life.
Amazon BillyF
Out of all possible solutions to clear genuine applicants this is the
worst one, it gives frauds exactly what they wanted.
New VQWA58
What is a better solution? What about the people who have 100 year backlog
time.
Amazon BillyF
Points based system and/or relative TC auction
New VQWA58
Yes, it's same as healthcare, no point based system is going to pass ... It
will takes 10-20 years to have it approved. Till that time all the backlog
will be cleared
Amazon BillyF
Backlog will never be cleared, see my previous explanation of that at the
top level. Only Indians who have already applied 5-10 years ago will have
wait time reduced; those who will apply in the future will still wait same
50 years, this time together with the rest of the world.
Amazon btqP10
Wrong at so many level. Also inclusion means
Equality of opportunity not equality of outcome.
Country cap to me feels like trying to implement inclusion via equality of
outcome, which feels weird and broken.
Then again, i have no beef in this fight 🍿🍿
Uber / Eng jojorabbit
How is a wait time of 80-150 years equality of opportunity? Also thank
you for avoiding getting beef. It’s good for the planet
New PsjY04
Dude! Out of 1.1 million green cards distributed each year, only 12% are
assigned to employment based green cards. This bill says that country caps
should be eliminated for employment based visas, so the rest of 88% of visa
still provide you diversity. And it is important to note that employment
does not discriminate based on country of origin, it should be the similar
for employment based green cards. And 90% of the H1Bs go to students who
have studied here in US, and not everyone would be able to find a employer
who would sponsor a green card.
The current backlog has been created because decades long discrimination
based on the country caps in employment based green cards and the special
provisions are carved out so that it won't effect other professions and
countries in the next few years when the backlogged green cards will finally
be approved. And after three years there won't be any flooding and it would
be a level playing field for everyone.
The concept would be simple, get a job, if your employer sponsors you a
green card, you will get it. If they don't you wont.
This will also eliminate the H1B visa abuse some contracting companies as
they cannot discriminate. They are fighting hard for this bill to be
scrapped so that they can make money exploiting the immigrant employees.
This bill will actually help everyone and make the industry much more
condusive to everyone.
This bill will finally provide an opportunity to thousands of entrepreneurs
who are stuck in the rut of waiting for their green cards. This bill only
fights for a fair chance, not to grab anyone else's opportunity.
Cisco tonic101
@duzJ30 So basically your idea is this: A is from India and B is from a non-
quota country and they work equally hard, perform equally well. But A should
never be allowed to get a GC or become citizen but B should. Well done. You
sound like a racist to me. Hate for Indians seems no bounds here. It is
also unconstitutional btw.
New duzJ30
OP
Yes, right. B should have much shorter wait time and A - longer time,
because there is a tremendous number of citizens of the same country as A
applied before A. The country name doesn’t matter.
Not sure why you called me a racist.
New VQWA58
The classic , if don't like it say it's unconstitutional..
Cisco tonic101
@duzJ30 perhaps it is you does not deserve to be in this country because you
have no sense of fairness and equality. You must have supported the muslim
ban as well, no?
Lending Club aJAf77
S386 is merit based GC system in FIFS model. How is this related to just
India and China getting benefited? So you are accepting that there is is
huge backlog of India and China folks for GC , right? This bill clears them
and bring every one to one line to serve GC in first come first serve. This
is fair and perfect to clean up the GC mess. Nothing harm and not just
related to people from India and China. Justice delayed is Justice denied.
Uber / Eng GbGi84
Dude this benefits Indian people only. All the Chinese people I know are
strongly against this.
Lending Club aJAf77
I don't agree. This bill says one line for GC, irrespective of country. |
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