S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 1 1) Since the fact that we cannot know what the tax code will look like many
years from now, it makes the most sense to do whatever is most advantageous
today. That is, take the tax deduction now if you can, and hedge your bet by
diversify into taxable and ROTH vehicle.
2) It should be noted, and many people seems do not realize, that the
deduction is applied on the marginal tax rate, that is, your top one or two
tax rate bucket. But the distribution could be taxed at different rate from
0% up to your marginal rate. In other words, the deduction is applied at
your top tax rate, while the distribution is most likely applied at your **
average** tax rate.
1) is far more important than 2) | E******w
发帖数: 2616 | 2 The most important thing is whether you can trade well. Once you put money
into a 401K account, you are limited to a bunch of high cost mutual funds
with all sorts of trading constraints and penalties. Many people believe
that government put those constraints there to enforce good behavior. The
truth is that all the constraints and costs have just one purpose: to get
your money into their pocket. Before you put money into such a dangerous
environment, you better learn some skills first.
And, as I always said, if you do have those skills, nothing else should be a
problem. Avoiding income tax should be a piece of cake comparing to the
trading challenge.
many
advantageous
by
two
from
【在 S**C 的大作中提到】
: 1) Since the fact that we cannot know what the tax code will look like many
: years from now, it makes the most sense to do whatever is most advantageous
: today. That is, take the tax deduction now if you can, and hedge your bet by
: diversify into taxable and ROTH vehicle.
: 2) It should be noted, and many people seems do not realize, that the
: deduction is applied on the marginal tax rate, that is, your top one or two
: tax rate bucket. But the distribution could be taxed at different rate from
: 0% up to your marginal rate. In other words, the deduction is applied at
: your top tax rate, while the distribution is most likely applied at your **
: average** tax rate.
| X****r
发帖数: 3557 | 3 Some 401k plans have broker option. Blame your employer if yours doesn't.
a
【在 E******w 的大作中提到】
: The most important thing is whether you can trade well. Once you put money
: into a 401K account, you are limited to a bunch of high cost mutual funds
: with all sorts of trading constraints and penalties. Many people believe
: that government put those constraints there to enforce good behavior. The
: truth is that all the constraints and costs have just one purpose: to get
: your money into their pocket. Before you put money into such a dangerous
: environment, you better learn some skills first.
: And, as I always said, if you do have those skills, nothing else should be a
: problem. Avoiding income tax should be a piece of cake comparing to the
: trading challenge.
| E******w
发帖数: 2616 | 4 The constraints are due to government policy. If you did your homework, you
will understand that brokers or employers won't make much difference.
I know you can have various options to choose from, but it does not mean you
really have a choice.
【在 X****r 的大作中提到】
: Some 401k plans have broker option. Blame your employer if yours doesn't.
:
: a
| t***s
发帖数: 4666 | 5 而且我们的401k里的fund class都比较好，expense ratio都比retail低。
【在 X****r 的大作中提到】
: Some 401k plans have broker option. Blame your employer if yours doesn't.
:
: a
| f*******n
发帖数: 12623 | 6 No, this is completely irrelevant to the Roth vs. Traditional issue. No
matter how well or poorly the 401k performs, it affects Roth and Traditional
the same.
a
【在 E******w 的大作中提到】
: The most important thing is whether you can trade well. Once you put money
: into a 401K account, you are limited to a bunch of high cost mutual funds
: with all sorts of trading constraints and penalties. Many people believe
: that government put those constraints there to enforce good behavior. The
: truth is that all the constraints and costs have just one purpose: to get
: your money into their pocket. Before you put money into such a dangerous
: environment, you better learn some skills first.
: And, as I always said, if you do have those skills, nothing else should be a
: problem. Avoiding income tax should be a piece of cake comparing to the
: trading challenge.
| E******w
发帖数: 2616 | 7 Yeah, what I mean is, if you cannot trade well, better avoid both of them.
Wall street always design this kind of tricks.
They ask you how much proportion of your money should be in bond or in
stocks. They give all sorts of debate on that. Then you are tricked in and
forget that you should put money in cash.
They always talk about whether traditional is better than Roth, and have all
sorts of debates and calculations. Then you are tricked in and think that
you have to choose one of them. Actually, you may want to avoid both of them.
Similarly, in presidential elections, they also want you to debate on issues
like same sex marriage, abortion, etc. The purpose of those endless debates
is just to distract you from the important issues.
Basically, my point is, you should figure out the trick and focus on the
important issue. Don't just choose from the options they suggest.
Traditional
【在 f*******n 的大作中提到】
: No, this is completely irrelevant to the Roth vs. Traditional issue. No
: matter how well or poorly the 401k performs, it affects Roth and Traditional
: the same.
:
: a
| r****m
发帖数: 1204 | 8 Your way of thinking is very good - keep a cool head and don't get tricked
in easily.
But your conclusion seems a little extreme - put all your retirement money
in cash?
Can you elaborate how you came to this conclusion? | E******w
发帖数: 2616 | 9 If you do stock trading, you will know that money should be in cash most of
the time. I do not mean I will never trade. It is like hunting in a forest.
You hide most of the time, and jump out only when the opportunity is right.
Of course, you are not always successful. But, you should know why you jump
out, what objective you want to achieve, and when to stop. Only herds are
always wondering on the meadow, ready to get killed.
By the way, I am just a beginner trader. Don't have real trading skill yet.
But I did get some understandings from my own bloody experience.
【在 r****m 的大作中提到】
: Your way of thinking is very good - keep a cool head and don't get tricked
: in easily.
: But your conclusion seems a little extreme - put all your retirement money
: in cash?
: Can you elaborate how you came to this conclusion?
| S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 10 For my own individual stocks portfolio, I tend to hold a block of, say, WMT,
a block of PEP, a block of this and that and then sit on my ass for most of
the time.
of
.
.
jump
.
【在 E******w 的大作中提到】
: If you do stock trading, you will know that money should be in cash most of
: the time. I do not mean I will never trade. It is like hunting in a forest.
: You hide most of the time, and jump out only when the opportunity is right.
: Of course, you are not always successful. But, you should know why you jump
: out, what objective you want to achieve, and when to stop. Only herds are
: always wondering on the meadow, ready to get killed.
: By the way, I am just a beginner trader. Don't have real trading skill yet.
: But I did get some understandings from my own bloody experience.
| E******w
发帖数: 2616 | 11 这个要展开说就长了。而且我本身炒股水平也很低，所以没多少内容可说。但是有一条
，就算是长期持有也肯定不能持有那些有高费用的mutual fund吧。反正，正常的股市
帐户，这些mutual fund我一个也不会去碰的。 401K没有办法。只是我觉得政府逼我做
的事，一定有很大的风险。就算我没办法避开，至少也得明白风险在哪。
WMT,
of
【在 S**C 的大作中提到】
: For my own individual stocks portfolio, I tend to hold a block of, say, WMT,
: a block of PEP, a block of this and that and then sit on my ass for most of
: the time.
:
: of
: .
: .
: jump
: .
| w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 12 Your view is innovative, but I don't quite understand how the government
could force you to buy mutual funds...
Seriously, if you have a decent employer, you could open up a self-direct
brokerage account and buy whatever you want. Even if your employer sucks,
you could still choose money market funds, so that you get your company
match (if they do match your contribution) without having to buy mutual
funds and fall in the traps you imagine. If they don't match your
contribution, then there is not much incentive for 401k and there isn't a
law saying you have to contribute this much of money to 401k...
BTW, many mutual funds provide even lower-cost classes for 401k's that you
won't be able to find in a regular taxable account.
【在 E******w 的大作中提到】
: 这个要展开说就长了。而且我本身炒股水平也很低，所以没多少内容可说。但是有一条
: ，就算是长期持有也肯定不能持有那些有高费用的mutual fund吧。反正，正常的股市
: 帐户，这些mutual fund我一个也不会去碰的。 401K没有办法。只是我觉得政府逼我做
: 的事，一定有很大的风险。就算我没办法避开，至少也得明白风险在哪。
:
: WMT,
: of
| E******w
发帖数: 2616 | 13 To be frank, I do not believe that you claims are true. 401K has specific
government regulations. You will never be able to "buy whatever you want",
irrespective of your employer and your broker. It seems that your employer
and broker are "decent" enough to violate the law. I just never saw such an
example in my life.
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: Your view is innovative, but I don't quite understand how the government
: could force you to buy mutual funds...
: Seriously, if you have a decent employer, you could open up a self-direct
: brokerage account and buy whatever you want. Even if your employer sucks,
: you could still choose money market funds, so that you get your company
: match (if they do match your contribution) without having to buy mutual
: funds and fall in the traps you imagine. If they don't match your
: contribution, then there is not much incentive for 401k and there isn't a
: law saying you have to contribute this much of money to 401k...
: BTW, many mutual funds provide even lower-cost classes for 401k's that you
| w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 14 My bad, "whatever you want" is apparently exaggerated. I can't buy/sell
option, can't short, can't buy houses or horses, LOL.
But I can buy individual stocks, or if I do nothing, my money stays in money
market. What government regulation says you have to invest in high cost MF?
Show me the regulations so that I can warn my employer and my broker.
an
【在 E******w 的大作中提到】
: To be frank, I do not believe that you claims are true. 401K has specific
: government regulations. You will never be able to "buy whatever you want",
: irrespective of your employer and your broker. It seems that your employer
: and broker are "decent" enough to violate the law. I just never saw such an
: example in my life.
|
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