G******i
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 01:26:51 2011, 美东) 提到:
最近Epic在系统性的大幅裁员，有传闻公司遇到财务困难。
被裁的很多都是中国和东亚的H1b员工（Epic 内部歧视亚裔几乎都是公开的秘密），完
全没有提前通知，很多人都是立刻通知当天走人。每个组都至少裁掉了1-2个，有的整
个组都被裁掉了。
很多人都是才来2年左右的，当年被很多空头许诺骗来放弃很多很好的offer (我认识一
个放弃MS SDET的offer来的），但是等被fire的时候才发现这些许诺没有一个是写在
agreement里面的。
最近HR在搞全公司skill assessment, 其实就是预示这近期要有大幅裁员。
这种Private的公司最好别来，CEO一人专断，公司业绩完全不公开。每每公司大会也都
是报喜不报忧，没人知道公司到底在发生什么。
公司技术落后，这种工作经历写在简历上完全不是亮点而是污点。（很多NY和加州的
Headhunter都跟我这么说过）
建议接受Epic offer请三思。如果暂时没有别的可以先来在同时找其他的。
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pinealex (无名) 于 (Thu Jun 16 01:35:18 2011, 美东) 提到:
Our advanced software is used by some of the largest and most respected heal
thcare organizations worldwide to improve the quality of patient care. What
we do here makes a difference through every step of the patient care process
.
We're a focused and driven company. Founded 32 years ago in the basement of
an apartment building, we've grown to a company of over 4,300 intelligent, m
otivated, and principled people, working from our 800-acre campus outside Ma
dison to make an impact on one of the largest and fastest-growing industries
out there.
We hire bright people with a sense of urgency and a track record of getting
things done. Our management structure's relatively flat, which means you get
to make an impact on our company and our customers within months—or days—
of beginning your career here.
As you consider the next (or first) step in your career, ask yourself if you
want to work for a company focused on returns to shareholders and developin
g a non-essential product, or if you want to do something that makes a diffe
rence in the world.
Facebook Find us on Facebook
Twitter Follow us on Twitter
Do you want to get a job, or do you want to do something Epic?
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pinealex (无名) 于 (Thu Jun 16 01:35:31 2011, 美东) 提到:
居然有4000多人
heal
What
process
of
m
Ma
industries
getting
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 01:46:37 2011, 美东) 提到:
what's your point?
heal
What
process
of
m
Ma
industries
getting
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 01:51:55 2011, 美东) 提到:
developer 只有不到500
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ESLR (eslr) 于 (Thu Jun 16 02:41:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
HIT 公司大都以实施人员为主。
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speeddy (Wade) 于 (Thu Jun 16 03:23:52 2011, 美东) 提到:
Is it the same as Yahoo?
Just fire the ppl with high salary then hire ppl with low salary?
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 09:27:39 2011, 美东) 提到:
你老也是Epic里出来的叛徒？
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olivi (笨笨) 于 (Thu Jun 16 10:03:10 2011, 美东) 提到:
我想去人家都不要我，人比人，气死人呀
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nwhz (nwhz) 于 (Thu Jun 16 10:34:58 2011, 美东) 提到:
象面向对象设计，.NET,医疗的行业经验还是有用吧。
两手准备吧。要么剩者为王，要么另找雇主。
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 10:47:29 2011, 美东) 提到:
"我认识一个放弃MS SDET的offer来的"
谁？谁？ 好像在说我。。。
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 10:47:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
少来了
你去过epic吗？
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nwhz (nwhz) 于 (Thu Jun 16 11:17:42 2011, 美东) 提到:
还真去过。
办公室不错呢。这种时候一定要团结。
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 11:21:27 2011, 美东) 提到:
是吗？ 他们啥时高过OOP?
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nwhz (nwhz) 于 (Thu Jun 16 11:25:05 2011, 美东) 提到:
新的VB.NET难道不是OOP.不过他们好像有一套自己的QUERY语言什么的。是有点怪。。
但是向系统需求分析，客户交流，这些都是通的。
这年头，自己的实力和关系才是硬件。不要对公司报太大的期待。
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brakepad (brakepad) 于 (Thu Jun 16 11:30:21 2011, 美东) 提到:
听说Epic用的是VB6
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 11:33:12 2011, 美东) 提到:
Epic的开发流程不是业界通用的，Design pattern你用了几个？UML你用么？
有一个NY的headhunter曾经直白的跟我说"people from Epic make poor candidates"
，就是因为很多业界通用的标准都没有用，要不是我毕业的时候就跟他有联系他不想帮
我。
别在上班时间吹Epic了，小心下个被裁的就是你。所有被裁的都是毫无征兆的。
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nwhz (nwhz) 于 (Thu Jun 16 11:41:32 2011, 美东) 提到:
楼主火气不要太大。我绝对反对公司裁员。UML那东西看两天不就熟悉了吗。
Design Pattern傻瓜书也很有意思。
。
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 11:59:05 2011, 美东) 提到:
你被裁了？
lin (millin) 的大作中提到: 】
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vsfan (小饭) 于 (Thu Jun 16 12:02:39 2011, 美东) 提到:
Sorry for being mean on you,
If you were even fired/laid off by such an underpar company (just as you
described) how could you justify yourself to be "good" anyway. I could even
interpret what you heard from your head hunt as "People fired by Epic are
just too bad".
No offense, just like if you were dumped by your girlfriend yet you had no
clue on why even after, you got some trouble of yourself, not your
girlfriend.
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circleNet (net) 于 (Thu Jun 16 12:13:40 2011, 美东) 提到:
I guess that it would be another story if your girl friend kept fooling you
around until the last moment.
even
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 13:41:51 2011, 美东) 提到:
Sure, just make sure you will think that way.
You are likely to be the next to fired, Epic is monitoring your internet
traffic all the time.
even
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 13:45:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
I went off before they can. 2/3 of the Asians are fired/left in my group.
All the information is what I know before I left or heard from people who
are left/fired after me
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 13:48:21 2011, 美东) 提到:
yea, i am not quite sure about that, they monitor your internet traffic.
do you have concrete evidence?
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 13:49:53 2011, 美东) 提到:
你扪心自问一下，Epic到底值得不得来，你仔细想想，Staff meeting上有多少不是洗
脑，在Epic这几年对你的Career到底是个什么样的影响。
别为了赚点Referral就骗那么多同胞来
even
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 13:51:42 2011, 美东) 提到:
One Chinese I know was fired for this reason.
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 13:57:10 2011, 美东) 提到:
who who?
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 14:05:44 2011, 美东) 提到:
a girl, I don't think she wants to give out her name. She's still in job
hunting now.
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daloser (一事无成) 于 (Thu Jun 16 14:11:15 2011, 美东) 提到:
India company?
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 14:12:19 2011, 美东) 提到:
Ma mei mei?
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city (city) 于 (Thu Jun 16 14:16:42 2011, 美东) 提到:
好名字哦
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 14:39:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
转一个Glassdoor review:
Epic Systems Corporation Software Developer in Verona, WI: (Current
Employee)
“You'll ruin your life working here”
9 of 10 people found this helpful
Pros
- Great benefit package, insurance is cheap and covers everything
- Good pay, especially for fresh grads
- Really nice campus with unique design
- Subsidized food (very cheap and healthy)
Cons
- Working here basically means no future. The company uses Cache and VB
which have absolutely no marketing value and career advancement. Therefore,
it's really hard to find a different job after working here for a while. You
might have to put extra efforts by working during the day and keeping your
other skills (Java, C/C++,...) updated during the night... oh wait, you
might have to work during the night too.
- VERY FEW Team Leads have good management/people skills, which is the
drawback of having a flat structure. You advance through seniority, not
necessary skills so they actually contributed a lot in scaring talents away.
If you're lucky, your TLs would be nice, and that probably happens 10% of
the time.
- Really really old/ancient codes with inconsistencies all over the place.
They're like plague and the worst thing is, most people who wrote those
codes quit already. Now you're stuck with debugging/fixing it. Also,
production codes contain A LOT of bad practices (hardcoding, memory leaks,
poor documentation...). Cache is so old comments still affect performances (
causes NoOp code) so good luck finding documentation when debugging it.
- The company has not clear vision of the future. Projects to satisfy
customers move forward quickly while projects to move to .NET got suspended
for 3 years straight. New features are written in old code, which increases
the codebase everyday and makes transitions impossible.
- The CEO regularly badmouths competitors and use twisted statistics to
convince employees they're working for the best company in the world. She
also keeps comparing Epic (merely $600M in revenue) to Google, Microsoft and
Facebook... Epic's far from it.
- If you piss off a customer, even a nurse, you're done. But go-lives are
required so good luck.
- Training environment is messed up, badly. Testing here is also done very
poorly, that's why the company needs like 6 months to stabilize a version
and they promise to deliver new version every year.
Advice to Senior Management
- Train and pick your Team Leads, seriously
- Allow feedback about management levels
- Sketch the future, world domination is not a valid one
- Don't use twisted statistics
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 14:57:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
lol, world domination.
I always liked that one.
Current
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 15:53:04 2011, 美东) 提到:
Yeah, I found it funny too, and they just keep repeating it during the staff
meeting.
Now they move the staff meeting to early morning and made it mandatory.
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vsfan (小饭) 于 (Thu Jun 16 17:39:48 2011, 美东) 提到:
All the information you have is either misleading or subjective.
500 dev? no, 767 SD as of today and 113 EDI (Technical PM)
financial crisis? no, they are living on cash the CEO does not like any debt
. plus 300+ people are starting every month recently, are they just free
labor?
firing Asians on purpose? not really, there is certain rules for firing, it
is just not disclosed though. but yah, the motto CEO once (and only once)
told press is "Hire slow, Fire fast"
lay off certain group? come on... give me a name before making vague
arguments
I fully understand your frustration over your career at Epic, which is
commonly seen on glassdoor or indeed.
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 17:43:43 2011, 美东) 提到:
so true.
The time i spent in Epic are the happiest years in my life.
I do 3 hours of work everday, spend 4 hours in lunch room. and chat 1 hour
on MITBBS.
I hope all places are more like Epic.
debt
it
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fzzh24 (fzz) 于 (Thu Jun 16 17:54:30 2011, 美东) 提到:
呵呵，我越用越不敢说自己熟悉uml和design pattern
看到简历上写精通的人，只能说无知者无畏
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 18:36:33 2011, 美东) 提到:
translation?
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 18:37:07 2011, 美东) 提到:
为啥不可以？
UML is just a tool.
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millin (millin) 于 (Thu Jun 16 19:01:25 2011, 美东) 提到:
Oh really?
Then show me Epic financial report if you please, how much did they net and
how much did they spend, how much saving does it has? Can you
Yes, 300+ people starts, how many are SD? and can you say that you are
irreplaceable? Is there anything you (I assume you get paid 100k+)can do
cannot be done by a newbie paid 60k in 6 months?
Check with ppl from Radiant and Stork, check how many are fired in the past
few months, some teams in Stork are eliminated, everyone except TL is fired.
And if you want to believe every word what Judy said, so be it, you just
want to be brainwashed. But what Judy said during the staff meeting that "
Cloud technology is overestimate" has become a joke in the industry already,
even MS recruiter knows.
Keep up your good work in taking over the world, I won't be in your way
debt
it
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nwhz (nwhz) 于 (Thu Jun 16 19:18:19 2011, 美东) 提到:
你们两位的讨论
有没有中文摘要。
and
past
fired.
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fzzh24 (fzz) 于 (Thu Jun 16 19:57:41 2011, 美东) 提到:
呵呵，要是你们这的uml都是指能画uml的tool比如viso的话，当我啥都没说过。。。
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 20:05:52 2011, 美东) 提到:
...duh
UML就是那些东西。
it's your idea that matters.
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vsfan (小饭) 于 (Thu Jun 16 20:21:00 2011, 美东) 提到:
Look, you knew Epic is privately owned, so an employee like me who did not
execute stock option has no access to the report. From a personal
perspective, as long as my paycheck is delivered on time, could not care
less about things like net profits.
Surely there are things I can do better than new hires. Unfortunately, the
starting salary is already very close to 100K (per policy, I could not
disclose the exact number). "60k in 6 months" is even lower than the LCA
they file for the position of SD.
Radiant sucks because of the KLAS, every one knows! OB, well, I did not
check with them frequently enough to know anything there.
What Judy said could be true or false, even Bill Gates had said 640k was
enough, not surprising at all for a "65" CEO to make mistakes!
Short conclusion, Epic was/is/will not (be) perfect and certainly has tons
of problems. The reason I jumped on this post is very simple, I just could
not stand people saying "I heard/I was told/Some one says" (when I do know
the facts).
Finally, congratulations for OP's new job, I am sure he enjoys the new one
much better. After all, all Chinese, united!
and
past
fired.
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 20:26:09 2011, 美东) 提到:
re
i think he's just sore. But, about what????
shouldn't we all be happy when we leave the shithole?
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fzzh24 (fzz) 于 (Thu Jun 16 20:54:11 2011, 美东) 提到:
虽然我不是uml砖家，但是你要有兴趣可以去查一下uml standard 2.0和1.2的异同，应
该还能找到不少2.0标准出来前的口水战的文章
你要没兴趣就当我啥都没说过
"你上次design的时候，用UML画的类图，时序图看起来东西非常清楚啊。能不能把这个
模块里面多个线程的同步等待这些的东西也画一下啊？"
"..."
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 21:20:07 2011, 美东) 提到:
没兴趣
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asuran (鸵鸟) 于 (Thu Jun 16 22:07:28 2011, 美东) 提到:
我前年去过onsite， 给我印象就是环境很好，食堂不错。
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speeddy (Wade) 于 (Thu Jun 16 22:21:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
I still have a question. What is the VB means in Epic?
Visual Basic?
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 22:22:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
LOL
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speeddy (Wade) 于 (Thu Jun 16 22:25:40 2011, 美东) 提到:
Is that all? Or just some broup?
My friend in Epic told me he use C#.
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 22:27:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
consider him no longer a friend.
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gate (离开之后，再见以前) 于 (Thu Jun 16 22:39:30 2011, 美东) 提到:
lol
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city (city) 于 (Thu Jun 16 22:39:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
哈哈，狠
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braverlife (braverlife) 于 (Thu Jun 16 23:14:30 2011, 美东) 提到:
你每天有3个小时吗？我记得你晚上去赌场，然后早上直接来食堂，聊完一桌再换一桌
，然后2点回去睡午觉，醒了干会活就一栋一栋的视察，应该就一两个小时吧，肯定没
有3个小时。我还记得问过你，忙吗？你说有3个qa notes,我说一个星期的活吗，您老
来句“这个phase的”,俺差点晕倒。不过，你那几年确实过的爽。
言归正传，你现在在哪个公司高就？
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 23:20:09 2011, 美东) 提到:
确实爽， 呵呵。
Consulting的活， 消微忙些， 不过也不错。
拿到了Cerner的Offer， 还不知道该不该去。
Cerner比Epic好。
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vsfan (小饭) 于 (Thu Jun 16 23:20:42 2011, 美东) 提到:
透露下价钱
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 23:23:01 2011, 美东) 提到:
比Epic差
不然我早去了
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vsfan (小饭) 于 (Thu Jun 16 23:23:29 2011, 美东) 提到:
干...
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 23:24:39 2011, 美东) 提到:
不过环境好啊。
阳光灿烂。 美女如云。
用21世纪的东西。
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braverlife (braverlife) 于 (Thu Jun 16 23:37:26 2011, 美东) 提到:
最近赌市运气如何？
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braverlife (braverlife) 于 (Thu Jun 16 23:39:28 2011, 美东) 提到:
BOA不用，TD ameritrade用的cache.
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mercuriusl (Mercurius) 于 (Thu Jun 16 23:54:13 2011, 美东) 提到:
你现在做的Trading怎么样？ 好玩吗？
Quant版上老是说最近很差
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millin (millin) 于 (Fri Jun 17 00:52:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
I am very happy leaving Epic, I just regret I haven't realized and left
earlier.
Now I think I should write something to warning people who do not know and
will be lure into this shithole again. Especially those who are 忽悠 by 小饭
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vsfan (小饭) 于 (Fri Jun 17 02:19:12 2011, 美东) 提到:
我刚看过了guru, OB是在重建的样子 的确被雷的差不多了
源头和Radiant是一样的 KLAS上OB今年前五个月死的太惨了
我很期待你的揭秘贴 呵呵
我没有lure过人，版上和我打过电话/发过邮件的xdjm不下五十人
群众的眼睛是雪亮的
关于VB6，的确不是可以用来在未来推销自己的技能
关于Cache，我还是认识好几个小印靠这个找到工作的
Epic的招工要求在市场上是low ball的 没什么疑问
但是也有人需要甚至喜欢这种类型的工作（比如小饭）
工资是有吸引力的 考虑到WISC三十万就能买大房 开好车
不是所有程序员都喜欢用最酷的科技编世界上最好的软件
软件业三十年来真正占领市场的都不是技术最好或者用户体验最佳的产品
就像小饭自己从护士那里听到的"I have been on Epic for 4 years, it works."
Yah, it works, it is a pretty big deal.
本来不想扯下面的部分的
还是扯吧
---------------以下这段可能属于lure人---------------------
小饭喜欢这份工作的原因中最重要的就是真正对自己的产品有了ownership
小饭做过的工作包括QAN fix, Enh, TDE trial project
它们都是小饭自己drive
从Investigate->Plan->Develop->Test->QA->Release每一步都参与其中
要和TS讨论SLG的内容
要和QA讲怎么重现客户的问题
要自己写设计文档去描述流程
要编码（请忽略这步）
要找同事做代码复查
要天天追着QA让他们先测自己的工作
最后还要审核发布文档是不是提供了足够和正确的信息
小饭不是一个好的程序员 从来都不是 被FB明据 被GOOG默据 还被NVIDIA拖了四个月弄
五轮电面就是不给机票去加州
但是小饭很希望自己三脚猫的编程技能可以派上用场
这份工作给了小饭一个平台和机会，去和（潜在的）客户做交流，做功能分析，也能去
医院做售后，做功能调查和验证
小饭可以真实看到自己的工作是怎么影响和改变到现实中的医生和患者
---------------以上这段可能属于lure人---------------------
小饭并不欣赏自己所用的工具 吃饭的家伙而已
但是小饭很喜欢自己能真的做些事情的感觉
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smallhead (小脑袋) 于 (Fri Jun 17 02:41:14 2011, 美东) 提到:
还不睡？明天不用早起上班么
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jqfei (jqfei) 于 (Fri Jun 17 11:56:52 2011, 美东) 提到:
这个要顶一下。看来小饭是真心喜欢这个工作，并且志向不在码工
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gate (离开之后，再见以前) 于 (Fri Jun 17 11:59:46 2011, 美东) 提到:
赞，这才是真正的career :)
and
小饭
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olivi (笨笨) 于 (Fri Jun 17 14:18:37 2011, 美东) 提到:
开发工具很重要么？我昨天电面的一个公司也还在用VB6呢
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mitbbs26 (mitbbs26) 于 (Sat Jun 18 23:56:32 2011, 美东) 提到:
个人觉得工具不重要
但基本公司都有project ownership
epic公司不怎么样，但地点还挺好的，校园也漂亮，美女多！ |
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