父母领美国福利 - Living版

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Living版 - 父母领美国福利

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相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: matloff话题: chinese话题: immigrants话题: he话题: norman

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(共1页)

M*********s
发帖数: 1086

周末见到朋友，他父母都给办到美国，住福利房，领福利金，好象安排得很好，我想到
自己父母的将来，就想先查查是否合法合理。好象是合法的，或者是合法地钻了法律
漏洞,但好象不大合适。
SSI和廉价住房宗旨是给真正的很穷的穷人的，而中国老人或他们的子女基本都算中产
，而且子女办老人来，都保证过不让老人成为社会负担的。另外，SSI和廉价住房在一
般美国人当中，包括老墨眼里，都是很没面子的事，而我们中国人却毫不觉得，而把它
看成理所当然，不要白不要的东西。下面
这篇论文说一般美国老人只有９％领这类福利，而４５％的中国移民老人领这类福利。
其中还提到好多中国人称子女交了税，父母就理应领福利，但交税和领福利应该是两
码事-穷人才福利,福利是SAFTY NET。文章引有人骂中国子女贪婪，说美国的福利会给
毁了，于是提出要改革漏洞。
我也不知道我将来会不会为了实惠厚着脸去让我父母也那样-咱中国人基本只讲实际。
只是我眼下知道了，这不是件很光荣的事。
论文link:
http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~matloff/pub/Immigration/WelfareUse/W

h**********g
发帖数: 254

如果你有精力，不如想一想或做一做能够提高华人在美国利益的事。我也同意美国的福
利会被毁了，但是要多么强大的逻辑，才能得出是中国父母领福利给毁的！
先天下之忧而忧，后天下之乐而乐是对的。可是请你睁大眼睛看一看，在美国这个土地
上，当每个群体都在拼命争取自己的利益的时候，甚至用立法的手段为自己获得更大的
利益的时候，就不要自觉清高，连自己的同胞用非常合法的手段取得的利益都要大加鞭
鞑，讽刺挖苦。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

: 周末见到朋友，他父母都给办到美国，住福利房，领福利金，好象安排得很好，我想到
: 自己父母的将来，就想先查查是否合法合理。好象是合法的，或者是合法地钻了法律
: 漏洞,但好象不大合适。
: SSI和廉价住房宗旨是给真正的很穷的穷人的，而中国老人或他们的子女基本都算中产
: ，而且子女办老人来，都保证过不让老人成为社会负担的。另外，SSI和廉价住房在一
: 般美国人当中，包括老墨眼里，都是很没面子的事，而我们中国人却毫不觉得，而把它
: 看成理所当然，不要白不要的东西。下面
: 这篇论文说一般美国老人只有９％领这类福利，而４５％的中国移民老人领这类福利。
: 其中还提到好多中国人称子女交了税，父母就理应领福利，但交税和领福利应该是两
: 码事-穷人才福利,福利是SAFTY NET。文章引有人骂中国子女贪婪，说美国的福利会给

b***z
发帖数: 2723

空子到处可以钻，要查你也是可以查得到的，美国再衰几年，就会来查了。就像现在要
求申报海外资产一样，出来混迟早要还的

d*****s
发帖数: 5610

中国人占美国总人口才5%不到。老人申请再多，也是一个零头。那篇文章光写中国人，
其实很明显的有歧视现象，何况是96年的文章。那个ucdavis的CS教授是不是就是娶了个中国人太太，然后说中国人水平差，尤其是CS的水平差，不是人才的那个教授？
老墨申请救济不要太多啊，现在老美申请的也太多了。合法的救济不申请，还在这里
mmjj，有点猥琐啊。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

h**********g
发帖数: 254

请搞清楚逃税和合法避税的区别。
我绝对同意应该解决法律上关于福利的漏洞。但同时一定要注意率先向华人开刀的人或
事。华人在规模上对于福利的滥用，绝对是总量上的冰山一角。率先向华人开刀，目标
针对华人的，绝对不是一个善良的人。

【在 b***z 的大作中提到】

: 空子到处可以钻，要查你也是可以查得到的，美国再衰几年，就会来查了。就像现在要
: 求申报海外资产一样，出来混迟早要还的

h**********g
发帖数: 254

岂止是猥琐呀，简直是.. 唉，自己的同胞，不多说了。

了个中国人太太，然后说中国人水平差，尤其是CS的水平差，不是人才的那个教授？

【在 d*****s 的大作中提到】

: 中国人占美国总人口才5%不到。老人申请再多，也是一个零头。那篇文章光写中国人，
: 其实很明显的有歧视现象，何况是96年的文章。那个ucdavis的CS教授是不是就是娶了个中国人太太，然后说中国人水平差，尤其是CS的水平差，不是人才的那个教授？
: 老墨申请救济不要太多啊，现在老美申请的也太多了。合法的救济不申请，还在这里
: mmjj，有点猥琐啊。

z*********n
发帖数: 94654

在加州更爽，还有廉租房，政府每周还派人来给收拾，现在budget cut也就是来的次数
少少降低了点而已

【在 h**********g 的大作中提到】

: 岂止是猥琐呀，简直是.. 唉，自己的同胞，不多说了。
:
: 了个中国人太太，然后说中国人水平差，尤其是CS的水平差，不是人才的那个教授？

h**********g
发帖数: 254

呵呵，你是不是想说加州财政赤字是因为廉租房搞的呀:-)

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

: 在加州更爽，还有廉租房，政府每周还派人来给收拾，现在budget cut也就是来的次数
: 少少降低了点而已

z*********n
发帖数: 94654

我没说，我就说身边见到的老中帮父母移民过来享受的福利呗

【在 h**********g 的大作中提到】

: 呵呵，你是不是想说加州财政赤字是因为廉租房搞的呀:-)

j*****s
发帖数: 1784

>华人在规模上对于福利的滥用，绝对是总量上的冰山一角。
这句话要顶。
合法的享用福利，为什么要硬是盖个“钻空子”的帽子？你交了税就有权利享受福利！

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h**********g
发帖数: 254

这版上你是公认的鬼心思最多的人:-)
你成天在中国人里扎堆，沉浸在中国人的论坛，当然看到的都是中国人的事, 一点儿都
不奇怪。

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

: 我没说，我就说身边见到的老中帮父母移民过来享受的福利呗

S*********g
发帖数: 5298

在美国是没交税也有权利享受福利

【在 j*****s 的大作中提到】

: >华人在规模上对于福利的滥用，绝对是总量上的冰山一角。
: 这句话要顶。
: 合法的享用福利，为什么要硬是盖个“钻空子”的帽子？你交了税就有权利享受福利！

h**********g
发帖数: 254

: 我没说，我就说身边见到的老中帮父母移民过来享受的福利呗

a********a
发帖数: 3176

没错－如果是真的需要救济的穷人。不是穷人的，即使交税也不该拿救济。

【在 S*********g 的大作中提到】

: 在美国是没交税也有权利享受福利

e********t
发帖数: 9607

这个话题根本没法讨论。只能都是个人观点。我父母不在美国我也没有生美国人，不过
其他中国人享受福利我没意见。
其实在美国东亚人多一点比老黑劳墨多一点好，不爱闹事不热衷政治，要说占便宜，占
得还都是小便宜。吃撑了才想起排挤东亚人。

p******t
发帖数: 3764

这文章。。。
大家快来分享一下如何挖资本主义墙角吧
老三先上

c*******e
发帖数: 776

所有福利都是按美国的福利政策走,我不见得中国人有什么过分的行为,我是鼓励凡是中
国人如果他能有权利拿到那应有的福利为何不,至于SSI, 红蓝卡,白卡等福利都是有法
律约束的,你只要按足规定办事,阳光永远在你一方,从最根本的说起,你的电话费可以从
30多降到7块多,甚至你可以申请每月250分钟的免费手机,

j*****s
发帖数: 1784

其实我看老中排挤老中，就觉得有点不可思议
老中没地位，有很重要的一个原因就是人口少.人多起来总会出现几个带头人,所以不管
你是phd,还是偷渡搞政庇的，应该都是欢迎的。
我不提倡搞种族抱团，但是当别的族群日益扩大，并且提高到立法来保护自己的时候，
你这些少数裔就只能等死。学学老印老墨，别老盯着诋毁自己人

m***y
发帖数: 14763

SSI和廉价住房宗旨是给真正的很穷的穷人的
另外，SSI和廉价住房在一般美国人当中，包括老墨眼里，都是很没面子的事
:)
I can try to pass no judgment on the first one, but regarding the second one
? Man, your standard of 一般美国人 is kinda high. One thinking SSI和廉价住房
很没面子 are considered a good, decent, hard-working American, who are
nowadays, in my own opinion, few and far between.

y******r
发帖数: 1500

agee

【在 c*******e 的大作中提到】

: 所有福利都是按美国的福利政策走,我不见得中国人有什么过分的行为,我是鼓励凡是中
: 国人如果他能有权利拿到那应有的福利为何不,至于SSI, 红蓝卡,白卡等福利都是有法
: 律约束的,你只要按足规定办事,阳光永远在你一方,从最根本的说起,你的电话费可以从
: 30多降到7块多,甚至你可以申请每月250分钟的免费手机,

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B********4
发帖数: 7156

那些合法避税的大富豪，你谴责吗？那些把工作机会外包出去的资本家，你谴责吗？这
些才是国家蛀虫。
领美国福利的中国老人，就是属于在美国的穷人。只要没有伪造资料，都是大力提倡的
。

c********l
发帖数: 8138

re

【在 h**********g 的大作中提到】

: 如果你有精力，不如想一想或做一做能够提高华人在美国利益的事。我也同意美国的福
: 利会被毁了，但是要多么强大的逻辑，才能得出是中国父母领福利给毁的！
: 先天下之忧而忧，后天下之乐而乐是对的。可是请你睁大眼睛看一看，在美国这个土地
: 上，当每个群体都在拼命争取自己的利益的时候，甚至用立法的手段为自己获得更大的
: 利益的时候，就不要自觉清高，连自己的同胞用非常合法的手段取得的利益都要大加鞭
: 鞑，讽刺挖苦。

s**********d
发帖数: 36899

美国15%的人领food stamps。告诉他们这是很丢人的事让他们给我们省点钱。

f*****b
发帖数: 1649

WTF!
What'a wrong with you? Have too much money to waste?

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

t*********e
发帖数: 1136

这事儿你可以这么理解。
你从中国来的时候大学已经读完了。所以你前面这么多年的教育美国纳税人一分钱也没
付出，是白赚。而且你能上大学，来美国，还能拿绿卡办公民，都是经过挑选的。过五
关斩六将。为了拿绿卡还得做几年的高级奴隶。美国则是选好的来，选好的留下。
那这个巨额人才培养费和杰出人才选择费是谁出的？是中国纳税人出的，包括你的父母
。因此你父母并不是对美国经济没有贡献，而是有很多贡献。
按美国说法。一个人从生下来养到18岁平均要25万美元。大学四年平均也得15万美元吧。所以你到美国大学读研，就等于中国纳税人至少送给美国40万美元。其实还不止。因为你是被选上的。很可能是国内好大学毕业的。所以如果你父母拿点美国的福利也没啥不合理的。

m*****e
发帖数: 719

老墨非法来美，生一串孩子，带出一串亲戚，不交税，享受免费医疗，也好意思说中国
老人领的那点福利？！

m*********0
发帖数: 1139

鄙视楼主!!!
我都懒得说你这样就会满嘴喷粪的小人!!!!
华人以你为耻!!

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

z**n
发帖数: 22303

别纠结了，鸦片战争的时候清政府早就付过钱了。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

z*********n
发帖数: 94654

别纠结了，本来就是老莫的地盘

【在 z**n 的大作中提到】

: 别纠结了，鸦片战争的时候清政府早就付过钱了。

w***t
发帖数: 8175

re

【在 m*****e 的大作中提到】

: 老墨非法来美，生一串孩子，带出一串亲戚，不交税，享受免费医疗，也好意思说中国
: 老人领的那点福利？！

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z**n
发帖数: 22303

劳模，印第安人本来就是飘零海外的华夏子孙啊。

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

: 别纠结了，本来就是老莫的地盘

j******f
发帖数: 825

只要合法，咱都支持，剩下的都是废话。

z*********n
发帖数: 94654

yy，老中，印第安人，都是蒙古人的子孙，这么说稍微靠谱2%？哈哈
其实别争了，都是棒子后代

【在 z**n 的大作中提到】

: 劳模，印第安人本来就是飘零海外的华夏子孙啊。

x*******g
发帖数: 1363

好像是40%老美不用交税？说实话除了老弱病残，多少穷人其实就是懒人。

s**t
发帖数: 342

lz所推崇的穷人也未必都是真穷人啊：
所谓的穷人，到底怎么样算是穷人，老弱病残，还是年轻力状却不愿意出去找工？
我同意老弱病残绝对应该得到扶助，但我不认为年轻力状却不干活还养一大家老小的人
就理所应当了
什么事物都是有很多方面的

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

d*****s
发帖数: 5610

你说的不算，法律怎么说就该怎么办。

【在 s**t 的大作中提到】

: lz所推崇的穷人也未必都是真穷人啊：
: 所谓的穷人，到底怎么样算是穷人，老弱病残，还是年轻力状却不愿意出去找工？
: 我同意老弱病残绝对应该得到扶助，但我不认为年轻力状却不干活还养一大家老小的人
: 就理所应当了
: 什么事物都是有很多方面的

d********g
发帖数: 7458

问题的根源不在福利制度，而是移民制度。
美国一边玩命卡工作移民，一边双手欢迎这些老头老太来移民养老，没辙。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

D*****I
发帖数: 8268

医疗系统要靠这些老头老太才能运行起来啊

【在 d********g 的大作中提到】

: 问题的根源不在福利制度，而是移民制度。
: 美国一边玩命卡工作移民，一边双手欢迎这些老头老太来移民养老，没辙。

k**n
发帖数: 6198

你这么说是因为你对美国文化其实并不了解，基于一个中国人喜欢占小便宜的
assumption.
上周报的西雅图美国夫妇住了1million的房子，还拿政府福利，到处度假
一大队老黑，身体强壮，什么都不干，是真正穷人，到处领福利
还有没有计划生育的劳模童鞋们，生了一堆去拿food stamp,medicaid
我每年缴那末多的税，不给我父母，我也愿意给中国老人，
美国人说，"Bob is an honest guy, even though he didn't pay his tax."

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

d****t
发帖数: 372

论文里的举例, 大部分是台湾和香港人, 大陆人好象并不多. 另外, 前苏联, 越南人比
起中国人来说多多了, 他把中国人拿出来说有欠公平.

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进入Living版参与讨论

h*********e
发帖数: 6997

LZ没有讽刺挖苦吧，他为自己将来这样做留了很大余地的。

【在 h**********g 的大作中提到】

d****t
发帖数: 372

这个教授本人是个jew, 却是个反华先锋! 大家应该反击它才对!
http://www.arthurhu.com/index/matloff.htm
Norman Matloff, The Hatchet Man of Asian Immigration
(Arthur Hu's Norm Matloff fan site) | New additions
Arthur Hu's Norman Matloff page
http://www.arthurhu.com/index/matloff.htm
2 Quick Intros to Matloff / Immigration Issues
Asian Focus April 1998: The Chinese Must Go! Matloff's Myth of a Programmer
Shortage
George Nichol's Other Matloff Fan Site (easier to navigate than this one!)
Where Matloff's been Published
How to Contact / See Norm Matloff's Materials
email: m*****[email protected]\ (Norm Matloff)
World Wide Web site on immigration: ftp://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/svreport.
html (immigration and the Silicon Valley)
ftp://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/ssi.html (immigration and welfare)
ftp://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/imm.html (general immigration, including links
to the above topics)
Computer Industry Overview
ITAA '98 Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage Norm's
Picture and bio where he is careful to say that he is a friend of the
Chinese and immigrants, and therefore give him the moral right to completely
trash them.
Dr. Norman Matloff is a man on a mission. He pretends to be an upstanding
Jewish member of the Chinese community, yet no one has done more to insult
and defame Chinese since the 1800s in the days of the Working Man's Party
than Mr. Matloff. He is the sole inheritor of the legacy of the anti-chinese
movements of the late 19th century west, though he himself is the member of
a group that has suffered much at the hands of racial hatred. He has the
nerve to call the kettle black by banging the drum that immigrants and
Asians are racist, but is himself making racist attacks on immigrants.
No man has been more authoratatively quoted by the anti-immigration lobby,
or poses a greater threat to Asian and even Jewish immigrants and
immigration. His columns have been printed by the New York Times, Computer
Source, Computer Source Magazxine, LA Times, San Francisco Chronicle, US
News and World Report, National Review, Sacramento Bee, New Democrat,
Electrical Engineering Times, The Public Interest, Asian Week, Center for
Immigration Studies. His data has been referred to by Debra Saunders of the
SF Chronicle, Michelle Malkin of the Seattle Times, Richard Estrada of the
Dallas Morning News, Yeh Yeh Ling of the Carrying Capacity Network. He has
one of the most linked-to sites on the world wide Web, including US News and
World Report, CNN and other sites. He has testified before congress, and
spoken at immigration forums held by Hoover Institution and others. There
have been almost no direct rebuttals of any of his positions published by
any newspaper or magazine.
His report on immigrants in Silicon Valley is nothing but an academically
veiled and vicious racist attack on what are the most disproportionately
important ethnic groups in Silicon Valley, if not the entire US. Indeed, the
Chinese and Indians are the only American ethnic groups that can rival the
quality and achievements of the Jewish Americans, of which Norm is a member
of, in technical fields. The last time some body tried to prove that a group
with as high achievement as the Jews were inferior, Hitler was trying to
justify the Holocuast.
He discounts obvious data such as the overwhelming representation of Asians
in engineering schools, science and math awards, significant achievements,
and higher pay and education and test scores. In an age when American
educators are turning to Asia and its superior academic performance, Mr.
Matloff calls Asian education "harmful". Instead, he choses to "prove" that
immigrants are culturally inferior, racist, underpaid, and implies that high
tech would in fact be better without them. Indeed, he even slams the most
successful companines, Intel and Microsoft which hire immigrants as "harmful
to innovation" even though they deliver 90% of the world's desktop
computers and software.
He completely discounts the effects of cultural discrimination on
advancement and awards which go disproportionally to whites and natives
rather than Asians. If it were Jews or African Americans being discredited,
it would certainly be called racist or anti-semitic, but Mr Matloff
evidently believes only blacks and Jews deserve protection against
defamation.
Mr Matloff faults employers for hiring inferior immigrants. But then he
dismisses superior skills and education of immigrants by stating that any
programmer can pick up SQL, Microsoft Windows 95 and Visual C++ and 3D
programming in 30 days. He openly proclaimed that a "Cindy" with no
marketable skills was perferable to a Canadian with years of experience in
image processing programming, and that Cindy could pick this up in only two
weeks. Programmers don't need advanced or even a bachelors degrees in
computer science, and that no skills listed on a resume constitute valid
hiring criterion, saying that unemployed defence workers with 10 year old
skills are better qualified than immigrants out of school trained in Windows
and C++. He says that industry should be hiring more people like "Cindy"
with no marketable skills or experience, yet devalues the contributions of
Andrew Grove, CEO of Intel, or Jerry Yang, co-inventor of Yahoo. No
employment department or placement agency agrees with Matloff on this
position which he takes with zero evidence or support. He cites a microsoft
manager who says that qualifications are "nice", but that's not the same as
saying that qualifications have zero weight.
He deflects criticism of being a racist by defending African American and
resident Asians, and saying he is married to a Chinese immigrant. Yet every
piece that he writes is critical of Chinese and / or Hispanic immigrants. He
claims that Asians are inferior, exposes scandal after scandal, says they
take jobs from American engineers, and have made no important contributions,
and is critical of Asians culture as authoratorian and barbaric.
He has nothing but contempt for corporate America as a pack of criminals,
instead of the key to our world leadership and high stadard of living. He
attempts to quote pro-immigration Bill Gates, Ron Unz and myself, who are
pro-immigration on why we don't need immigrants.
On affirmative action, he is in favor of a crazy lottery system to get
around the uncomfortable fact that merit admits too many Asians and too few
blacks, even though such as system both lowers standards and fails to
achieve proportionality, it would result in lower numbers of blacks than
conventional racial preferences, and lower number of Asians in a normal
merit based system with racial preferences for the under-represented.
Top 10 Ridiculous Statements
Some the most ridiculous Matloff positions, taking the completely obvious,
standing it on its head, and then "proving" it:
No education is required for any programming job. Not a masters. Not a
bachelors. Not a high school diploma. 1/10/97 "Though you laugh at the
prospect, it is TRUE that no education at all is required. Many people in
the industry, including many very prominent ones, have no formal training in
computer science at all."
"Scientists and engineers are no more talented than persons in other fields,
it's absurd to assume that". Fact - it's easy to show that scientists and
engineers have the highest non-management salaries of any non-professional
degree, and have the highest SAT scores.
Nearly all elderly Asians are welfare cheats and the only way to stop it if
congress doesn't have the guts to cut them off is to stop elderly Asian
immigration. No Asians would sponsor their parents if they knew they could
not collect SSI.
But SSI is a drop in the bucket compared to Social Security and Medicare
that threaten to break the budget. Asians are only 6% of SSI, and Asians are
a disproportionately small percentage of the population. If anything,
working age Asians are saving SS and medicare. Since Social Security is paid
by current workers and sponsors do pay into Social Security, it would be
more fair to add elder immigrants to Social Security to offset the very
small percentage of elderly compared to the white population instead of
rooting out every Chinese collecting meager SSI payments. Most upper middle
class Asians can afford to support their parents and would still sponsor
them to reunite families, SSI is NOT a maget since very few elderly choose
to come because of cultural adjustments.
Legally its not cheating because the INS pledge is that they will not likely
become charges, there is no way to prove that the sponsors might find out
they can apply for SSI in the future and change their minds about support,
and it is not legally binding. It's not fraud in the sense that enforceable
rules have been broken.
Studies show that programmers can become productive in a new software
technology in a month or so (this is confirmed by my own personal experience
, in 25 years of keeping up with technological change in the industry). The
2nd major factor in the large % of immigrants is that misguided employers
have placed an unwarranted emphasis on hiring people with very highly
specific skill sets, thus creating an artificial labor ``shortage.''
Matloff is making the absurd statment that companies should not require
degrees, or any specific skills, despite the nearly universal industry
practice of doing so. In other words, companies should hire the first people
who show up at the door without comparing credentials, and favor unemployed
aerospace engineers without any relevant experience over immigrants who
match their exact needs.
Every company gets five to ten times as many resumes as there are openings.
That doesn't mean there is a surplus if they aren't satisfied with the
quality of the first 5 resumes that show up as Mr. Matloff effectively
claims. Only in such a world would it make sense to keep immigrants out, but
nobody hires that way, not even Mr. Matloff.
No hiring manager in a real company agrees with Matloff's statement that any
technology can be learned in 25 days. although Matloff pretends to be an
authority. In a competitive marketplace it is not neccesary to settle for
just any programmer that has to be trained for 30 days when you can hire
somebody off the street who already knows HTML or Microsoft Visual C++. It
does not occur to Mr. Matloff that perhaps 33%-40% of the best qualified and
most talented people happen to be immigrants. Sure you could replace them
with citizens, but at the expense of removing 33%-40% of the best applicants
at random, which will have a dramatic effect on the quality of the
remaining people, since you'll have to lower your standards to get the same
number of bodies.
Without such easy access to hiring of foreign nationals, more companies
would be forced to recruit at these schools, giving Asian-Americans and
others more and better job opportunities.
Mr. Matloff is deflecting his anti-Asian sentiments by pitting immigrant
Asians vs. legal residents and citizens. This statement has absolutely no
statistical foundation as all immigrants together compose only 30% of the
competition, and new immigrants from any year in particular probably less
than 5%. Reducing or even eliminating all new immigration not measurably
increase opportunities for Asian Americans, but only reduce opportunity for
potential Asians who wish to become Americans. The very people Matloff
claims to defend would have been excluded had his view been implemented 20
years ago. A similar argument would be that segregating poor underclass
blacks into ghettos would in fact be beneficial to middle class blacks who
are already integrated in the suburbs.
11/1/96
Arthur: If they abandoned this policy (selecting students with the best
grades and test scores), it would destroy every examinatin high school and
every selective college. They couldn't be called selective any more.
Norm: Once again, what would be so terrible about that? I just don't get it.
(That would be like having the SF 49s select players at random instead of
picking the best qualified.)
- Virtually no jobs in the computing field require graduate work, in
response to the high percentage of advanced degrees going to immigrants.
80% of Cypress semiconductor engineers have advanced degress - a waste of
money and talent he says, and he does not include job descriptions which
include degrees. Industry surveys in EE Times show advanced degrees pay more
as well. He claims no job requires even a bachelor's degree. In theory,
since even high school students are capable of productive programming, not
even a high school diploma is a valid requisite for a job opening. He
ignores that the probablity of finding better people improves among people
with a higher degree, and they get paid more.
- The computer industry does not need to hire large numbers of foreign
nationals because the vast majority of major technical advances made in the
industry have been made by U.S. natives, not immigrants. Cited by Yeh-Yeh
Ling in Seattle Times, an Asian who opposes Asian immigration.
He includes Intel, Sun, Microsoft, and every other leading computer with
immigrant founders or key employees to be non pivitol. In fact, Matloff
believes "Intel not only was not indispensable to the industry, its
selection by IBM for the PC has actually hurt the industry." despite the
fact that it is largely responsible for the masss standardization of the PCs
in the office and home as a viable industry. His only reason to downgrade
such people and vital milestone products is to downgrade immigrants, and to
make the superior appear to be inferior.
- False idustry claim: The computer industry pays immigrants the same as it
does natives. Census data indicate that in the Silicon Valley, immigrants
are paid on the order of 15% less than natives. Cited by Richard Estrada of
the Dallas Morning News (a Hispanic who opposes Hispanic immigration)
This is blatantly incorrect in his original report, and only marginally less
so now that he has included the fine -print that education has been
equalized - the average immigrant engineer has much more education and
advanced degrees. _Most_ studies, which Matloff conveniently omits even
after he has been informed of their existence, including the anti-immigrant
CIS study and NSF have found that nationally, most immigrant groups are paid
more than natives.
They are more educated, and the math SAT scores of immigrants is higher than
natives, a better indication of quality than possibly biased ACM innovation
awards. A very high percentage of immigrants have very high incomes, again,
a much more accurate measure of worthy innovations.
- Immigrants don't really create jobs, and only hire their own.
Matloff told me of a friend who was laid off from Everex, a firm founded by
Chinese, yet claims that Chinese don't create jobs. Then he has the nerve to
complain that the only company that would hire him was another Chinese
owned company. Here are two jobs that supposedly don't exist that saved his
friend, who was probably also Chinese. Studies in fact show that personal
references are the most effective way to get good employees, when Matloff
claims that this practice harms the industry when Chinese choose their own
friends. He does not recognize that the largest exclusive network is among
native white men. When black business routinely hire predominantly black
staffs, it is postive, but for Asians, this is not allowed.
- Of computer professionals in the Silicon Valley who had immigrated in the
five years prior to the Census, 76% were Chinese, but this doesn't mean they
are any more important vital to the industry than Indian motel owners. The
high % of immigrant engineers and immigrants winning the Westinghouse awards
in no way proves they are more skilled on the average than natives.
Matloff in his weighing the abilities of groups completely ignores the gross
over-representation of Chinese and Indians in silcon valley. It is useless
to compare the 20th percentile Indian engineer with a 90th percentile White
engineer when even the lowest Indian engineers is better than the huge
proportion of whites who are not even engineers in the first place. Matloff
recognizes that 90% of farm labor is immigrant, but also advocates that the
US does not need immigrant farm labor either.
Logically, this is like saying that African Americans have made no notable
contributions to basketball or American music, or that Jews have made no
essential contributions to film, finance, music or publishing, or that East
Europeans have made no important contributions to ice skating in arguing
that no more should be allowed to immigrate, or even that Europeans have
made no important contributions to US culture. He is basically contorting
logic to attempt to prove that a group that is important is not important.
- Cultural Impediments to Innovation Among the Immigrants. Foreign nationals
are culturally disinclined to innovate, and aren't the best and brightest.
Even Arthur Hu said the lower paid immigrants aren't as good. Asia tends to
produce workers who are not innovative, are not good at problem solving,
need excessive amounts of supervisory help, " result in reduced levels of
technical abilities among the Chinese computer professionals, relative to
those of other groups." The rote-memory approach to learning--called tian
yazi, ``stuff the duck'' in Chinese--simply is not conducive to technical
innovation. Matloff even dismisses the huge percentage of chinese immigrants
who win the Westinghouse Science Talent Search.
It is a racist statement to categorize all immigrants as not being
innovative, as the long list of immigrants who have made important
innovations in companies shows, and the fact that nearly every important
corporation in the US has immigrants in key positions, if not the founder.
It would be just as racist to argue against the employment of African
Americans on the basis of their lower average math test scores. No one is an
average. My position is that many immigrants aren't paid as much and aren't
as good, but that's not all immigrants, and the average immigrant makes
more than the average native. Matloff convenient dismisses all evidence of
Asian superiority over the general population to prove that group which is
far better than average per capita is somehow worse.
Just because the average Chinese on the planet probably only has a 5th grade
education doesn't mean that you won't get some of the best people on earth
by the time you pick out the top .001%. You have to kiss a lot of frogs to
find a prince. It's self defeating to artificially limit the pool in an
attempt to protect another racial group. If you excluded Jews, Germans,
Catholics or even African Americans, a group with a significantly lower
level of average quality, it would still result in a reduction in quality
because you would still miss the best of the pool, regardless of what the
average is.
There is something to be said about going beyond rote-memory, but you won't
even get into engineering unless you master rote-memory learning, which is
why Asians are 15 times their population compared to whites at MIT, and half
of Berkeley enginering students. Even if the average Asian were weaker, it
would not make the number of Asians at the very top zero, and Matloff
ignores the problem of discrimination and a glass ceiling which penalizes
persons from different cultures, regardless of talent
- Software piracy is worse in the US than in China. Yeah, we've got more
computers here, but we spend billions on software and steal only a tiny part
of it. In China, the overwhelming part of software is distributed for free
or close to it.
- There is no connection between the quality of an institution and its test
scores, therefore students should be selected at random above a minimum
cutoff
\doc\web\96\07\matlott.txt Why Not a Lottery to Get Into UC? Los Angeles
Times Op-Ed January 24, 1995 Norman Matloff : Matloff claims that test
scores don't matter use a lottery below a cutoff.
Such as scheme, as was determined by a committee in San Francisco neither
insures excellence, as the test scores of the resulting class will be the
average of all applicants instead of the highest X students. It won't insure
diversity because typically under-represented students are just as under-
represented among the minimally qualified. So you will get a class with
lower test scores, and still have minorities a fraction of their population
because even a lower score won't significantly increase their percentage of
the qualified pool. The most common method of selection is the take the
highest scoring minority applicants up to the desired percentage, even if
their scores are lower than whites / Asians.
The only way to create an excellent school as measured by student test
scores is either to put the school in an affluent or well educated location,
or to select the best from a large diverse district and concentrate them in
one school. There are NO schools with high test scores which do not fall
into one category or another. The lowell method is the ONLY way to create a
world class school in a city with a substantial amount of poverty.
-"There is no significant difference between UC campuses and the mean in SAT
scores"
UCB - UC Irvine = 88 pts, or 44 pts between center and extremes
UC Irvine - CA Average = 57 pts
State Average - Oakland = 72 pts
To get a 50% chance of admission into UC Davis requires only a
combined 650. To get into Berkeley, you need 1300.
This is part of his "there is no such thing as merit or credentials except
what think" theory. Matloff does not accept that there is any differnce
between the top 5% and top 15% of SAT scores, or that in the least
competitive UC campuses, even a score in the bottom ranges has a 50% chance
of admission, but nearly zero at the top schools.
- Students should be assigned randomly between UC campuses rather than
ranked by academic ability
- College quality is deterimined by research quality, not student test
scores
"Solomon and Tabuman [4] demonstrate that high income is related to college
quality, as measured by average student SAT score and family salary.. the
effect of college quality is reater for more able students" Robert Klitgaard
Choosing Elites p. 212. US News roughly ranks best colleges by SAT scores,
though not abosolute, it has a high weight.
- Jews are not especially talented in the computer industry see Matloff uses
ACM awards to prove that Chinese have no talent, but he did not count the
25% of Turing Awards that went to Jews. How can you say that having no
awards is proof of no talent and then dismiss the remarkable score for the
Jews?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Raoull Contrares on Matloff link compares him with Nazi extermination and
the Workingman's party which worked to keep the Chinese out of California.
\clip\96\03\afaclang.txt 12 Aug 1996 Appeals Court Reverses Lower Court's
Decision By JOHN HOWARD Associated Press Writer Opponents want to force Prop
209 to say that it will ban affirmative action, but the language will NOT
ban affirmative action which does not prefer or discriminate, and state
Supreme court agrees.
Nobody's head of this guy???
A Partial List of Who has quoted or printed Norman Matloff:
Electrical Engineering Times
Asian Week
ITAA conference
National Review
Public Interest
Immigration News (CIS)
John H. Tanton FAIR Detroit Free Press
Yeh Yeh Ling Carrying Capacity Network Seattle Times
Michelle Malkin Seattle Times
Seattle Post Intelligencer
Richard Estrada Dallas Morning News
San Jose Mercury News
Los Angeles Times
San Francisco Chronicle
Sacramento Bee
US Congressional Testimony
Boston University Conference
Hoover Institute Conference
Investors Business Daily Aug 21, 1997
National Center for Policy Analysis
US News and World Report
C-Net new.com 2/12/98
Disgruntled e-zine
Computer Source (Free Seattle computer paper)
Wired e-zine
==============================================================
new from the CIS Center, "A Missed Opportunity: Pro-Industry Report Defends
'Temporary' H1-B Visa Usage, Fails to Deal with Fact that It Will Be
Permanent," by Norman Matloff, a professor of computer science at the
University of California at Davis. This Backgrounder critiques last year's
report from the National Research Council on the H-1B visa program and
concludes this way: >>All sides of the H-1B controversy agree that the high-
tech field is one >>of the top bright spots in our economic future. An
impartial, >>well-executed study of the high-tech labor market conducted at
the >>request of the U.S. Congress would have been quite useful.
Unfortunately, >>what the NRC presented to Congress was biased and highly
selective, and >>ducked the tough questions about future trends. Rather than
shedding >>light on this vital issue, it will add to the confusion. The
backgrounder is on line at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/back301.html http://www.uniontrib.com/news/uniontrib/sun/business/index.html 'High-tech firms ask Congress to up foreign worker limits' By Finlay Lewis COPLEY NEWS SERVICE July 4, 1999 " And another critic, Norman Matloff, a computer scientist at the University of California Davis, has made available an extensive critique of the program on the Internet. " MATLOFF CALLED "LEADING VOICE" \clip\99\13\techwk.txt Where are the Workers? by Edward Frauenheim TechWeek (biweekly Silicon Valley magazine), June 28, 1999 " The "shortage" crisis is largely a scare tactic to drive down wages, contends Norman Matloff, a computer science professor at the University of California, Davis. Matloff has become a leading voice opposing industry claims and also has gathered the stories of older programmers who feel they've been forced into premature obsolescence. MATLOFF STILL AGAINST IMMIGRANT PROGRAMMERS Inflation safety valve: immigration Seattle Times June 29, 1999 p. F5 Foreign workers fill labor vacuum, keeping wage raises down Merrill Goozner Chicago Tribune. "There is no desperate software labor shortage," maintains Norman Matloff, a professor at the University of California at Davis. He blames software firm' unwillingnessto hire or retrain more expensive middle-age programmers for the supposed shortage. By the end of next year, immigration for the 90s will exceed those of the 1900 decade. 5 million undocumented workers in US, growing by 275,000 per year Electrical Engineering Times 10/26/98 George Nichols, plus two rejected pieces on Matloff and Yeh Ling Ling
alt.politics.white-power, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Matloff: immigrants come
INTENDING to leech off U.S. taxpayers! The right wing white supremacists
finally find Norman Matloff, and they love him!
Wired
Search Results:
Hype List
6:02 pm PDT 5 May 98 Deflating this month's overblown memes.
Senate Panel Backs Visa Expansion
8:31 am PST 3 Apr 98 Recent report questioning data on high-tech labor
shortage doesn't stop Judiciary Committee from passing a bill that will
bring tens of thousands of new engineers and programmers into the country.
Rants & Raves: Talent Drought? Ha!
6:06 pm PST 3 Mar 98 Readers Seize Bandwidth.
Tech Execs Take Case to Congress
3:19 pm PST 25 Feb 98 Congress heard testimony today concerning the
purported labor shortage in high tech from some industry heavies. Their
message: US schools aren't producing talent fast enough to keep pace with
growth in the industry.
'There Is No Desperate Labor Shortage'
5:01 am PST 25 Feb 98 University of California computer scientist Norman
Matloff is a thorn in the IT industry's side. While the industry bewails a
labor crisis, Matloff says the 'shortage' is purely a function of companies
unwilling to hire older workers.
\clip\98\12\skilshor.txt The skills shortage that isn't CNet news.com cites
Matloff February 4, 1998 9/9/98 Aardvark's Press Release on new anti-Matloff
site 8/17/98 Arthur E. Sowers, PhD cites Matloff as "realistic" picture of
the job market. Immigration, Cheap Labour and Age discrimination A
Conversation With Norman Matloff About Immigration, Cheap Labor And Age
Discrimination (Disgruntled E-Magazine)
Matloff leaves comments that Intel isn't posting many jobs comp.software-eng
thread supporting Matloff's "great" paper
"Bills Would Let More Skilled Workers In" Asian Week April 23, 1998 p. 10
But opponents [like Matloff] say legislation could hurt Asian Americans.
Stacy Lavilla. ...it could be bad for Asian Americans, warns Norman Mattloff
. He says numerous companies hire H1b visa holders to replace Asian American
professionals whose salaries have become too costly. "It definitely affects
Asian Americans because there are so many in the field ...always have a
negative effect..incliding citizens of color... Yeh Yeh Ling agrees, why not
give jobs first to Asian Am already here. 50% of Intel visas had masters
degrees or PhD, they hired 13,000 new employees last year images \clipim\98\
01\billskil.tif
\clip\98\08\matap.txt House Panel Debates Immigrant Visas By MICHELLE
MITTELSTADT Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Clinton
administration will oppose legislation that would nearly double the
number of visas for high-skilled foreign workers unless new
protections for American workers are included ``There is no desperate
software labor shortage, period,'' pronounced Norman Matloff, a
computer science professor at the University of California at Davis.
``The only shortage here is indeed one of cheap labor,'' he added,
saying that the computer industry hires on average only 2 percent of
the people who apply for jobs".
\clip\98\07\mignews.txt MIGRATION NEWS Vol. 5, No. 4 April, 1998
Current and back issues may be accessed via Internet on the Migration
News Home Page--http://migration.ucdavis.edu
"Many of the critical stories repeated charges made most forcefully by
University of California at Davis Computer Science Professor Norm
Matloff, who said, for example, that many US employers overspecify job
requirements so that the only person who qualifies is the H-1B foreigner
the company wants to hire, that US companies are reluctant to hire and
retrain older US engineers and programmers, and that many US companies do
little to retain US workers."
Debunking the
Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage "In my own case, I am
married to a Chinese immigrant, am fluent in Chinese, and have been
active in the Chinese immigrant community for more than 20 years,
hardly the activities of a xenophobe. "
\clip\98\07\labr2.txt Ten Tips for High-Tech Hiring Microsoft
Internet Magazine March 25, 1998 Clay Hawthorne
http://home.microsoft.com/reading/business3.asp
"6. Don’t stereotype your needs. The stereotype of the young, male,
pale-skinned computer geek shouldn't apply any longer. Dr. Norman
Matloff, a professor at the University of California at Davis, argues
that the labor shortage is a misperception caused in part by too many
companies relying on the same kind of worker and placing undue
emphasis on new, "hot" technologies. (Visit Dr. Norman Matloff's home
page for evidence to support his contention the labor shortage
doesn’t exist.)"
Under the surface: Is the pool of
programming talent too small? Is There A Shortage Of High Tech
Workers? Author Norman Matloff, a computer science professor at
the University of California at Davis, is highly skeptical of the
ITAA's assessment, and called the organization's motivation into
question If programmers are so rare and valuable, he says, why are
companies like Microsoft hiring a mere 2% of their applicants?
March 1998 Computer Source Magazine (Seattle area free computer
journal)
US NEWS & WORLD REPORT,
3/16/98 Too old to write code? The software industry's labor
shortage may be a myth BY JAMES LARDNER The United States faces a
critical shortage of computer programmers--there's something on which
Microsoft and Netscape and the federal government can all agree.
Arthur comments: Norman Matloff would rather that France's best
engineers and scientists (as well as China and India) should stay at
home to compete with US industry instead of helping dominate the
world even more completely than we do now. Great norm. From:
d*****[email protected] GO WEST, YOUNG FRENCHMAN A torrent of high-tech
talent is leaving--maybe for good \clip\98\05\french.txt
Raising Roof on Visas San Jose Mercuy News Feb 24, 1998. Hearings set
on higher tech cap for immigrants. Norman Matloff said flatly: there
is no shortage, found a 15 to 20 percent wage gap between foreign
born and American born counterparts (does not include qualification
of equal education and Silicon Valley only - overall, immigrants are
paid more, even in Silicon valley not less because they are better
educated) "A majority of H-1B workers are hired by employers looking
for cheap labor" (he has also stated that the only reason any
immigrant is hired is because they are cheaper, even though on
average, they are better paid) Industry argues immigrants are
neccesary, labor groups also oppose immigrants.
\clip\98\05\newquot.txt New Quota Weighed for Immigrant Technology
Workers The New York Times, Monday, February 23, 1998 By ROBERT PEAR
" Norman Matloff, a professor of computer science at the University
of California at Davis, said that many high-technology companies were
seeking cheap labor. As a result, he said, they prefer to hire recent
graduates and foreign workers and often discriminate against American
computer programmers over the age of 40, who are perceived as
requiring higher salaries. "
\clip\98\04\itmanp.txt http://www.techweb.com/se/ Electrical
Engineering Times January 19, 1998, Issue: 989 Work-force conference
spotlights issue, as new stats show shortfall is worse than thought
-- Government tackles IT manpower shortage Robert Bellinger But not
everyone backs those assertions. In a paper titled "Debunking the
Myth of a Software Labor Shortage," computer-science professor Norman
Matloff states flatly that "no such shortage" exists. Matloff, who
was added to the convocation's list of panelists after some
apparently last-minute negotiations, further writes that "employers
hire only a tiny fraction of their applicants for software positions."
Nov 15, 1997 1997 Asian Pacific Islander Legislative Conference
Summary: Federal Issues. Norman Matloff, a right-wing Republican,
should be criticized for his opposition on immigration, and his
negative opinions about Chinese people (I, Arthur Hu, brought up his
name, but did not mention that he was actually a left-wing Democrat,
it is remarkable that they guessed incorrectly about his stated
political leanings, which shows where he perhaps should be classified)
EE shortage or hidden agenda? By
Robert Bellinger EE Times 12/8/97 "There is no shortage of
computer programmers," insisted Norman Matloff, a computer-science
professor at the University of California, Davis, "but rather, a
'shortage' of programmers with specific skills." Matloff, who called
the shortage scenario a "smokescreen hiding increased immigration as
the central agenda," maintains that "any competent programmer can
become productive in a new software technology in less than a month."
http://cmp-pub1.web.cerf.net/en/sbin/iarecord?NS-search-set=/34 aaaa004qS91d900&NS-doc-offset=0&NS-adv-search=0&
EE Times 9/8/97 Alliance targets
training for software jobs By Robert Bellinger "The situation is
not helped by industry, which is wasting its talent, according to
Norm Matloff, a professor at the University of California at Davis.
The computer industry, he wrote in a recent paper, is discarding too
many mid-career professionals. "What happens to mid-career people is
that they get into non-technical jobs," according to Matloff."
http://cmp-pub1.web.cerf.net/en/sbin/iarecord?NS-search-set=/34 aaaa004qS91d900&NS-doc-offset=1&NS-adv-search=0&
MATLOFF: KICKING ELDERLY IMMIGRANTS OFF OF SSI ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH
Welfare Reform and Immigration: A Prognosis Norman Matloff
Immigration Review Fall Winter 1996-97 \images\972\113097\p01.tif
"since most will simply naturalize, it is replacing one 5 year
waiting period for another"
EVERY COLLEGE AND HIGH SCHOOL IS EQUALLY GOOD, WHY FIGHT OVER MERIT?
No, Arthur, I don't think Lowell should
be in the business of saving tuition dollars for the lucky
few.Matloff says that the only advantage of Lowell is saving
money with AP classes. The only reason Lowell scores are high is
because of high admissions, but on the other hand, he doesn't say
that high test scores indicate quality either, therefore Lowell is no
better than any other SF school. The man refuses to recognize
excellence, yet he lectures on what excellence really is. [concludes
that he sent his daughter to a normal school instead of a magnet,
would turn down lowell, and that any UC campus would be fine]
Immigration,
Evasion and Decadence by John Attarian Analyzing the 1990 Census
data, University of California (Davis) professor of computer studies
Norman Matloff found that foreign-born computer professionals in
Silicon Valley had average salaries almost $7,000 lower than those of
Americans of the same age and education level.15"
\clip\97\24\matloff\evasion.txt
National Center for Policy Analysis "U.S. WELFARE LURING ELDERLY
IMMIGRANTS" An analysis by Norman Matloff of the University of
California at Davis reveals: That 45 percent of elderly immigrants in
California received cash welfare in 1990. Among Russian immigrants
the figure was 66 percent, and among Chinese, 5 percent.
Matloff there would be no harm if
Sowell cites that Dunbar was destroyed when it was switched to a
neighborhood school, or if Lowell dropped selective admissions.
Claims random selection would result in more chinese than merit only
You're not chinese if you don't speak the language????
Date sent: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:38:11 -0700
From: Norm Matloff
First of all, I don't "attack" Chinese, as you well know.
Second, this is laughable, because it is NOT your ethnic group. You're
not Chinese in any real sense. You don't speak Chinese. You've said
you're glad that your parents didn't teach you and your siblings about
Chinese culture.
Microsoft Job Growth is Harmful to
Seattle and US economy
Open arms,
outstretched hands Immigrants get more benefits than U.S. natives,
study shows March 7, 1996 CNN \clip\97\24\matloff\matloff.htm
Norm vs. Jewish Familyi and Children's center:
"> > But such numbers are misleading, argues Anita Friedman who works
> > with Russian emigres at San Francisco's Jewish Family and
> > Children's Center.
>
> I interviewed Ms. Friedman's assistant, who was quite disgusting.
> When I pointed out that many of those elderly immigrants on welfare
> were from middle-class families who were reneging on their promises
> to financially support their parents, the staffer was not the least
> bit apologetic. He even said, "We at this Center are going to see
> to it that our seniors get every penny possible."
"
New York Times Editorial / Letters; Friday August 28, 1997 Title:
"Most Elderly Immigrants Don't Play By The Rules" By NORM MATLOFF
Davis, Calif., Aug 22, 1997 F102097
\doc\web\clip\97\19\retire.htm NORMAN MATLOFF STRIKES AGAIN -
CONSERVATIVE INVESTORS BUSINESS DAILY The World's Retirement Home?
Investor's Business Daily Aug 21, 1997 p. 1 By David A. Price
Asian Week, June (approx) 1997
"Missed Opportunies" Matloff, the
one-man anti-Chinese movement is upset that one caller uses the
not-PC term Bok Gwai for black person, and implies that Asians are
at fault for blacks commiting terror against Asians in housing
projects they dominate.
National Review, July 28 1997 Issue "Norman Matloff finds
political hackers on the Internet. . . ." Norm Matloff is back again
on the xenophobic National Review creating more mischief. - Dave
Chiang
HU TO ASIAN WEEK - MATLOFF WRONG ON ENGINEERS AND SSI ISSUE
article
HU TO EE TIMES - MATLOFF MISLEADS ON IMMIGRANT ENGINEERS
article
HU ON MATLOFF - IMMIGRATION REFORM OR HATE SPEECH? article Most arguments
against
immigratio are refuted by facts that wages and jobs are up, not down,
and the enviroment is better, not worse.
TANTON OF FAIR QUOTES MATLOFF ON "OVERPRODUCTION"
Detroit Free
Press op-ed by Taunton quotes Norman Matloff that we are
"overproducing electrical engineers" \clip\97\15\tanton.htm
MATLOFF SPEAKS MAY 21 AT BOSTON UNIVERSITY
Boston University workshop summary On May
21 Professor Bob Lucas of Boston University hosted a Workshop on the
Migration of Foreign Scientists and Engineers, funded by the Sloan
Foundation. About 20 people participated.
\clip\98\12\saesum.htm
MIGRATION OF FOREIGN
SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS TO THE UNITED STATES WORKSHOP SUMMARY
Prepared by Parvina Rebbi and Robert Lucas On May 21, 1997, a
workshop on the migration of foreign scientists and engineers to the
United States was sponsored by the Sloan Foundation and held at the
Institute for Economic Development, Boston University. The workshop
was conducted in four main panels: The first panel addressed the role
of foreign science and engineering students at American universities.
Panelists: Thomas Espenshade, Michael Finn, Norman Matloff
"He claimed that few foreign students are exceptionally talented and
that the majority of foreign and native graduate students are of
ordinary talent. As a result, entry of foreign students in American
graduate programs leads to an excess of computer scientists in the
software labor market. " ", Matloff closed by arguing that: student
visas should only be granted to exceptionally talented international
students; research funding for computer science graduate programs
should be decreased to reduce the supply of graduate students in the
field; and a decrease in government funding for research programs
would also reduce demand by universities for graduate students in
computer science. "
DEBRA SAUNDERS SF CHRON
CITES MATLOFF SSI STUDY \clip\97\14\matloff1.txt San Francisco
Chronicle Sunday, April 27, 1997 · Page 9 DEBRA J. SAUNDERS
s******[email protected] Scam, American-Style " In the New York Times, the
head of the Union of Councils of Soviet Jews warned that the new laws
may result in ``half a million new homeless and starving people.'' "
" Norm Matloff of UC Davis did a demographic study of elderly
immigrant SSI recipients in California and found that 52 percent
lived with their families. `" "Let them live with the daughter who
probably sponsored them. "
THE POT CALLS THE KETTLE BLACK - MATLOFF IS ENGAGING IN RACISM BY
USINGS BLACKS TO PAINT ASIANS AND HISPANICS AS EVIL.
http://www.arthurhu.com/97/04/asiablak.htm San
Francisco Chronicle May 20, 1997 p. A23 Asians, Blacks and
intolerance By Norman Matloff It IS NO secret that many Asian
immigrants harbor racist attitudes toward African Americans and
Latinos. What is less noticed is that Asian American community
activists are ignoring the problem, doing nothing proactive to deal
with immigrant racial intolerance.
RESPONSE: BASHING THE COMMUNITY
HE CLAIMS TO BE ACTIVE IN / ASIAN BASHING "COMPLICATED EQUATION"
Editor -- Norman Matloff's commentary (Open Forum, May 20) on the
problems between Asian immigrants and African Americans seems all too
consistent with this Prop. 187 proponent's campaign to bash the same
community he claims to have been active in... instead he acts as a
sniper, attacking the vulnerable" San Francisco Chronicle May 22,
1997 A26 OLIVER WANG Emeryville May 23: ASIAN BASHING Editor -- The
May 20 Open Forum article by Norman Matloff, ``Asian, Blacks and
Intolerance,'' was very disturbing as far as timing and substance are
concerned. The Asian bashing now is in its high point... Chinese
immigrants are the most successful group in today's America, and this
fact triggers envy. Asians, as Jews before them, should be proud of
their success. RUDY J. BUDESKY El Cerrito
MATLOFF NOT WILSON DESERVES TO BE PORTRAYED AS MUGGER OF ELDERLY
F052297 Asian Week March 7, 1997 p. 4 Justin Lee. Cartoon shows a
masked mugger labled "Wilson" snatching a purse from an elderly woman
labeled "elderly immigrants". But it's Matloff who deserves to be
labeled in the picture.
MATLOFF ATTACKS CHINESE AND INDIAN ENGINEERS AS NONESSENTIAL, HIRE
MID CARREER PEOPLE WITH NO MARKETABLE SKILLS \clip\97\11\noshort.txt
Electrical Engineering Times April 28, 1997, Issue: 951
Professor: There are no shortages; hire mid-career people -- Report
raps computer industry on immigration By Brian Santo
MATLOFF CLAIMS MOST CHINESE WANT ELDERLY KICKED OFF SSI
Matloff claims that on a radio talk show, most Chinese agree that the
SSI should be yanked away from poor elderly Chinese, here is the
transcript. He also says reaction was positive to the Asian Week
piece. (\priv\97\03\matloff.txt)
MATLOFF'S FAULTY SALARY SURVEY CITED \clip\97\09\progjob.txt PATRICK
J. McDONNELL and JULIE PITTA, COLUMN ONE; 'Brain Gain' or Threat to
U.S. Jobs?; Silicon Valley companies say they need foreign workers to
stay on top. Critics claim salary savings are behind, Los Angeles
Times, 15 Jul 1996. "Norman Matloff, a professor of computer science
at UC Davis who wrote a critical study of industry hiring, says that
using census data he found that average annual salaries for foreign-
born computer professionals in Silicon Valley were nearly $7,000
lower than among native Americans of comparable age and education
levels."
IT ALL COMES FROM MATLOFF
All come from a research done by Norm Matloff at UC Davis. He
used 5% of the 1990 census data, and calculated those elderly on
welfare who came to california during 1980-1987. The percentages he
found are: Chinese 55%, Korean 50%, Soviet Union 66%, Vietnamese 74%,
and Mexican 21%. He pointed to the low Mexican rate and claimed the
high rate for Chinese is cultural. He defined Chinese as those from
Mainland, Taiwan and Hong Kong. \clip\97\24\allcomes.txt
US NEWS AND WORLD REPORT 4/25/96
\clip\97\24\matloff\parasite.txt Prof. Norman Matloff of the
University of California at Davis has found that 55 percent of
elderly Chinese immigrants in California are on welfare, compared
with just 9 percent of the state's older native-born residents.
NORMAN MATLOFF IS WORSE THAN ANTI-IMMIGRANT FAIR FOUNDER JOHN TANTON
< href="../97/03/tanton.txt">link At least Tanton doesn't make
thinly veiled attacks on the contributions and abilities of the
Chinese Americans, and Matloff is the one with web links and
citations for evidence that Silicon valley never needed immigrants,
or that immigrants are ripping off the welfare system instead of the
other way around with Social Security.
STANFORD: ANY COMPUTER PROGRAMMER CAN PICK UP A NEW TECHNOLOGY IN A
MONTH OR SO? \clip\97\07\stanf.txt http://www.techweb.com/search/
Electrical Engineering Times November 25, 1996, Issue: 929 High-tech
immigration sparks debate By Robert Bellinger "The bottom line," said
professor Norman Matloff of the University of California, Davis, "is
these employers are not willing to hire Americans with 10 to 15
years' experience. They say they need people with the right skills,
but should they be insisting on a laundry list of the latest hot
skills? I maintain they should not, because any computer programmer
can pick up a new software technology in a month or so."
MATLOFF WANTS COMPANY TO HIRE CINDY INSTEAD OF OBVIOUSLY BETTER
QUALIFIED CANADIAN 2/26/97 This
company should be hiring Cindy, who can be productive in C++ Windows
and image processing with no prior experience in just two days
instead of a Canadian with years of experience.
Immigration Review, No. 27, Fall/Winter, 1996-97 *Welfare Reform and
Immigration: A Prognosis, by NORMAN MATLOFF
Arthur Hu: Would Norman Matloff be
called an anti-semite if he said against the Jews what he charges the
Chiense with?
CALIFORNIA COMMENTARY Why Not a
Lottery to Get Into UC? The pool of academically eligible students
would be diversified, meeting the affirmative action goal, ending its
abuse. By NORMAN MATLOFF, Norman Matloff teaches at UC Davis, where
he was formerly chairman of the Affirmative Action Committee.; This
article originally appeared in the Los Angeles Times [Matloff
advocates a lottery which basically denies the basic concept of merit
and ability, such a lottery satisfies neither diversity, since few
blacks meet even minimal standards and would reduce numbers, and
would reduce quality since it would result in the average, not the
top test scores]
PERSPECTIVE ON IMMIGRATION Family
Reunification-- Just a Passport to Jobs Economics, not kin or
politics, is the main driving force, so cutting this category of
entries to the U.S. isn't heartless. (Matloff continues his attack
saying that Asians should not be allowed to bring family members over
if they seek jobs, and that Asians are harmful to high tech, despite
the wishes of high tech leaders)
\clip\97\03\matimm.txt MYTH
VERSUS FACT ON THE IMPACTS OF HIGH IMMIGRATION LEVELS
\clip\97\02\eldrnonc.txt ELDERLY NON-CITIZENS ON WELFARE WILL COST
THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER $328 BILLION OVER THE NEXT DECADE Robert Rector
Senior Policy Analyst and William F. Lauber Research Associate The
Heritage Foundation F.Y.I. No. 54 March 23, 1995
"An analysis of elderly immigrants in California by Professor Norman
Matloff of the University of California at Davis shows that 45
percent received cash welfare in 1990. Among Russian immigrants, the
figure is 66 percent; among Chinese, 55 percent."
\clip\97\02\winimig.txt Forwarded to PNEWS from Yeh Ling-Ling,
DRASTIC IMMIGRATION REDUCTION: A WIN-WIN PROPOSITION, National
Minority Politics, 31 Aug 1995 (cites Norm Matloff's arguments
against immigrant engineers) "This is not true, according to
Professor Norman Matloff of the UC-Davis Department of Computer
Science, who points out that virtually all of the major technological
advances in this field have been made by U.S. natives"
Date sent: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:33:07 -0800
1/28/96 Matloff does not believe in the goal of proportional
representation yet claims to be "indifferent" and "not opposed"
to conventional proportionality based affirmative action.
> > Once again, that does not bother me. I'm not interested in
> > "representation."
> The truth comes out. Matloff does not care about
> representation,
Under what system of logic taught at your alma mater MIT is being
*indifferent* to something equivalent to be *against* it?
ORIGINAL WEFLARE USE AMONG CHINESE IMMIGRANTS STUDY
SACRAMENTO BEE
INS Loopholes Lead Legal Immigrants to the World of Welfare
Sacramento Bee Op-Ed December 14, 1994 Norman Matloff
NATIONAL REVIEW ORIGINAL MATLOFF ATTACK ON CHINESE SSI
EASY MONEY, LOST TRADITIONS By NORMAN MATLOFF National Review, 21
Feb 1994. \clip\97\02\matfeldr.txt
MATLOFF KEY ANTI-CHINESE IMMIGRANT VOICE AT HOOVER INSTITUTION FORUM
AT STANFORD \clip\96\11\stanmatl.txt 10/22/96 High-tech workers
become new focus of immigration debate. Norman Matloff spouts out at
a Hoover Institution forum at Stanford U as key anti-skilled
immigrant voice.
http://www.stanford.edu/news/release/961022immigrate.html
\doc\96\06\matlof02.txt It makes no difference if Asians are
28% of the best SAT scores, and Jews are proportionally not
very high in engineering.
\doc\96\06\matlof01.txt Computer scientists are no more talented
than english majors. No group is genetically more capable than
any other, but immigrant engineers are culturally less capable,
despite higher test scores and participation rates.
\priv\96b\09\matloff3.txt Asians are NOT more talented. And why are
there so many immigrant Asians scientists >Because this has been
their ticket to a green card, Arthur.
\priv\96b\08\matlof5.txt Asians aren't promoted into management
because they are not "verbally agressive"
** Yahoo is not important or
innovative, only Wang was. Dang it Norm, this is yet another
example of deciding that the #1 leader in the industry isn't
important merely because it has an immigrant as a key person.
** A computer game company
requires 3D experience and MS-Windows. SAT scores show that Asians
are simply 20-28% of the most skilled persons in math, rather than
Matloff's racist conclusion that high % of Asians is the result of
lower skills / salaries and inflated credentials.
** Matloff confirms that he
believes the presence of Asians immigrants has harmed harmed high
tech, and that the high numbers of Asians with high test scores has
nothing to do with how bright Asians are, or their relative talent
which he judges to be below that of native Americans, who are mostly
white. He also states again that Intel and Sun don't create any new
jobs either.
MATLOFF ATTACKS IMMIGRANTS BY PITTING THEM AGAINST BLACKS AND OTHER
IMMIGRANTS
Public Interest Norm Matloff has a piece in the Summer 1996 issue
of The Public Interest entitled "How Immigrations Hurts Minorities."
From: m*****[email protected] (Norm Matloff) The
enclosed LA Times article reports that House Republicans have decided
to restore SSI access to what I will call "Category 2" immigrants. I
believe that this action is likely to be deeply regretted...
http://www.instanet.com/~vct/WELFAREIMMMATLOFF062197.html, 7503
bytes, 27Sep97
\clip\98\07\debug.htm
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/pub/Immigration/ImmigAndComputerI NMNatRev.html
Debugging Immigration Norman Matloff National Review, October 9, 1995
(Dateline Silicon Valley.) In mid-September dozens of lobbyists for
computer industry employers descended upon Capitol Hill. Companies
such as Microsoft and Sun Microsystems protested that congressional
proposals to place restrictions on skills-based immigration policies
would undermine America's leadership in the world computer industry.
Histrionics were the preferred mode of communication, as in Sun vice
president Ken Alvarez's claim that the legislation ``is going to kill
us,'' by blocking Sun's ability to hire ``the best talent in the
world.''
MATLOFF TELLS CONGRESS TO KEEP CHINESE IMMIGRANTS OUT
The Adverse Impacts of Immigration on Minorities Testimony to
House Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on Immigration
\priv\96\05\matloff4.txt - Even Computer Associates does not create
jobs for Americans, says Matloff even though the employment profiles
are mostly white men, especially in high management. He says David
Chiang as a Buchananesque distate of corporate America, yet he said
that "Corporate America has caused far more human suffering than any
Pioneer Fund", listing corporate Holocausts, and he is the one who
agrees with Buchanan on immigration issues.
\priv\96\16\matloff.txt - Matloff believes that the Asian educational
system is "harmful", and that superiority of Japanese cars is due to
workers.
\priv\96\06\matloff2.txt - says again would only specify 5 year
experience in programming, refer to winnt for Gates saying you don't
need experience. Says underemployment, not unemployment is the
problem, asked about 1.5% unemployment rate.
\priv\96\06\matloff.txt - Says that all of 4 of 10 vice presidents of
Cypress were hired in preference to natives because they are cheap
and inferior and a net negative effect on the US economy, no need
to specify postgrad degree in any want ad, Bill Gates advocates no
hiring credentials.
\priv\96\04\matloff.txt My only "bashing" of Chinese was to point out
the adverse impacts of the Chinese rote-memory system of education on
innovativeness. How many Canadian or Israeli or French scientists
have I said are outstanding? The answer is zero.
\doc\96\01\top10.txt - Top 10 not-credible Matloff positions
\doc\96\01\scorecar.txt - A scorecard on Arthur Hu vs.
Matloff's views
\priv\96\03\antiindu.txt Compares hiring immigrants for profits to
Ford anti-semitism, killing strikers, AT&T layoffs, Love Canal, "Dow
Chemical ruining the Vietnamese landscape with its war chemicals,
about Nestle (successfully) pushing the U.S. to be the only UN member
to vote against censuring Nestle for marketing unsafe baby formula in
poor African countries, etc, etc. All these are motivated by higher
profits -- the same as hiring foreign nationals in the computer
industry!"
\priv\96\02\immssi.txt - Asians are only 6.2% of SSI recipients.
Matloff testifies that Taiwan Chinese are the highest rate
d:\priv\96\02\matloff3.txt - Norm speaks on Chinese radio on why
immigration reform is good for Chinese, too many workers, too many
children in school, etc.
>>\priv\96\02\matfair.txt Norm Matloff: Asians also have the lowest
rates of volunteerism of any major ethnic group, etc. > "Will Latin
Amereican migrants bring with them the tradition of the > mordida
(bribe), the lack of involvement in public affairs, etc?" The latter
is certainly happening for Chinese immigrants, as Chinese political
activists themselves are the first to complain. The voting rate among
those eligible is far below that of the general population.
\priv\96\02\tsutomus.txt - Computer science degree is completely
unneccesary.
\doc\96\01\matsen.txt - Matloff opposed to allowing immigration of
Asian seniors.
\doc\96\01\sunfound.txt Norm says Sun founders were not important.
\priv\95\15\SVReport.htm - big Matloff report concluding The most
important point is that immigrants are not needed for the success of
our national computer industry. In addition to not being a help to
the industry, large-scale immigration has arguably hurt both the
industry and its workers: Hiring of foreign nationals has led to both
unemployment and underemployment of U.S. native professionals.
\priv\95\14\matloff4.txt - why we need to favor blacks over
immigrants
\priv\95\18\winnt.txt - Matloff shows Windows NT project
doesn't need advanced degrees or immigrants
Matloff's favorite reasons why we don't immigrants, particularly Chinese
- Computer companies don't recruit at college campuses, they
would if we stopped training immigrants.
- We don't need any graduate students or degrees
- We don't need any immigrant entrepenuers, or companies founded
or co-founded by immigrants, such as Intel or Sun. In fact
Intel is harmful to the industry.
- Immigrants don't put in as much as they get out
- Chinese commit massacres in Beijing and on Taiwan
- Chinese bring racist attitudes, why import more racism?
- Chinese bring authoratorian values which are harmful.
- Immigrants take jobs and business opportunities away from black
Americans, and don't hire native Americans.
- Immigrants take jobs away from Asian Americans
- Chinese don't volunteer
- Immigrants don't innovate, therefore we don't need any more
immigrant engineers
- Immigrant Chinese don't get ACM award or college awards
- Immigrants didn't found Intel, plus the their processors suck
anyways.
- Immigrants form isolated enclaves and don't assimilate
- Immigrants destroy places like Monterey Park which used to
be a nice white neighborhood, but is now taken over by disgusting
Chinese people.
- Chinese elderly freeload on social security at far higher rates
than "Americans". In fact nearly all of them are freeloaders,
and the only way to stop it is to keep them out.
- Chinese family members want to immigrate to make a fast buck,
not to be re-unified, so the the family preference is a fraud.
- Chinese send unaccompanied children to the US where they get a free
education, commit crimes and get into trouble.
- He should know, he is married to a Chinese and some of
his best friends are Chinese, and he thinks An Wang and the
students he sponsored are good immigrants (but almost no other
immigrants, Chinese or otherwise!)
- Chinese vote at low rates
- Chinese run for office at low rates
Matloff missed these reasons, but why not just
join the racist bandwagon:
- Chinese culture is incompatible with Truth, Justice, and the
American Way
- Chinese raise real estate values, driving away native
Americans
- Chinese buy flashy obnoxious cars
- Chinese live in dirty overcrowded slums (Chinatown)
- Chinese change the character of single-family neighborhoods
by adding in-law apartments and bringing in extended family,
straining utilties, parking, and everything else.
- Chinese have high incomes and large families, they speed the
ultimate destruction of the planet and straining its carrying
capacity
- Chinese monopolize honors classes, classical music, exam school and
selective colleges, and force Americans to work harder just to stay
even. They really make Blacks and Hispanics look bad.
- Chinese oppose affirmative action for deserving minorities
and vote for Republicans at obscene rates
- Chinese are promoted / qualified for management at
much lower rates than their proportions among professionals
in general
- Chinese eat dogs, monkeys and snakes
- Chinese used to bind women's feet
- Chinese believe that men should lead the family
and that women's primary emphasis should be on raising
and educating children
- Chinese have the most ridiculous sounding accent of all
races (either Mandarin or Toisan), and silly last names.
- Chinese have slanty eyes and greasy straight hair that looks dumb.
- Chinese gangs smuggle in people illegally by boat claiming to flee
from abortion, then disappear only to show in the newspapers kidnapped
by snakeheads for ransom, and then rape them or cut off their fingers
- Generations of Chinese came into country by lying about immigration
documents and family relations (paper sons)
- Chinese men are wimps,
- Chinese women are sex goddesses who steal men away from deserving
ugly Amazon white women.
@@education
\clip\96\02\techdegr.txt July 29, 1996 Issue: 912 Section: The
Profession -- The Work Week Tech degrees pull in job offers
Technical degrees are valuable.
Home

d********g
发帖数: 7458

没错。楼主看到的什么廉租房都是小头。大头是医疗。
我前任房东的父母，60岁来美国，20年没工作过一天。
他父母住廉租房，领残疾养老金这些都不算什么。单说他妈常年糖尿病等等一大堆毛病
，去年心脏搭桥，大前年换钛合金的膝关节，都是政府买单，弄不好就这一个老太太医
疗费就上百万了。

【在 D*****I 的大作中提到】

: 医疗系统要靠这些老头老太才能运行起来啊

b*****f
发帖数: 341

zan

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

: 别纠结了，本来就是老莫的地盘

x********n
发帖数: 252

又是一个上赶着帮国人做自我批评的，人家的父母申请福利被批准是因为满足了美国
政府的收入要求，就是美国标准下的穷人，不能因为人家子女有钱就说人家不能申请
福利，你这是典型的双重标准，美国老人也有很多子女很富有父母申请福利的，这
些到了你这里肯定就变成美国老人自尊自立不依靠子女了。。。

l****e
发帖数: 2271

据说现在的福利制度不是已经改了吗？父母移民拿绿卡的已经没有福利金可拿了，住政
府补贴的老年公寓也是从子女给的生活费中出，也不能申请什么midcare免费医疗了。
只有等5年以后申请了入籍，成了美国人才有这些福利，难道不是这样的？

s******m
发帖数: 2310

美国白人为了自己的利益要牺牲亚裔民族小孩平等上大学的权利中国老人住一点福利房
就嚷嚷着福利社会要被毁了美国人真够恶心的

周末见到朋友，他父母都给办到美国，住福利房，领福利金，好象安排得很好，我想到
自己父母的将来，就想先查查是否合法合理。好象是合法的，或者是合法地钻了法律
漏洞,但好象不大合适。
SSI和廉价住房宗旨是给真正的很穷的穷人的，而中国老人或他们的子女基本都算中产
，而且子女办老人来，都保证过不让老人成为社会负担的。另外，SSI和廉价住房在一
般美国人当中，包括老墨眼里，都是很没面子的事，而我们中国人却毫不觉得，而把它
看成理所当然，不要白不要的东西。下面
这篇论文说一般美国老人只有９％领这类福利，而４５％的中国移民老人领这类福利。
其中还提到好多中国人称子女交了税，父母就理应领福利，但交税和领福利应该是两
码事-穷人才福利,福利是SAFTY NET。文章引有人骂中国子女贪婪，说美国的福利会给
毁了，于是提出要改革漏洞。
我也不知道我将来会不会为了实惠厚着脸去让我父母也那样-咱中国人基本只讲实际。
只是我眼下知道了，这不是件很光荣的事。
论文link:
http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~matloff/pub/Immigration/WelfareUse/W

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

l******t
发帖数: 225

福利能用赶紧用，挖资本主义墙角要不遗余力，再说估计也没多少年可挖了按照现在这
趋势

C*******d
发帖数: 15836

中国人占美国总人口才1%!

了个中国人太太，然后说中国人水平差，尤其是CS的水平差，不是人才的那个教授？

【在 d*****s 的大作中提到】

C*******d
发帖数: 15836

赞！！

吧。所以你到美国大学读研，就等于中国纳税人至少送给美国40万美元。其实还不止。
因为你是被选上的。很可能是国内好大学毕业的。所以如果你父母拿点美国的福利也没
啥不合理的。

【在 t*********e 的大作中提到】

: 这事儿你可以这么理解。
: 你从中国来的时候大学已经读完了。所以你前面这么多年的教育美国纳税人一分钱也没
: 付出，是白赚。而且你能上大学，来美国，还能拿绿卡办公民，都是经过挑选的。过五
: 关斩六将。为了拿绿卡还得做几年的高级奴隶。美国则是选好的来，选好的留下。
: 那这个巨额人才培养费和杰出人才选择费是谁出的？是中国纳税人出的，包括你的父母
: 。因此你父母并不是对美国经济没有贡献，而是有很多贡献。
: 按美国说法。一个人从生下来养到18岁平均要25万美元。大学四年平均也得15万美元吧。所以你到美国大学读研，就等于中国纳税人至少送给美国40万美元。其实还不止。因为你是被选上的。很可能是国内好大学毕业的。所以如果你父母拿点美国的福利也没啥不合理的。

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x******o
发帖数: 2345

大多数中国人的父母的确是很穷很穷的穷人,并不是中产阶级
不能说报税的时候父母就不算家庭成员( 父母就算作dependent, 免税额度也非常小),
到考虑是否住廉租房的时候就说是家庭成员.
如果自己家庭收入能分一半给父母报税, 保险等等,我就支持父母不拿福利.
多少中产阶级的中国人能支撑给父母额外租一个房子(尤其是加州)让他们单独生活?
住廉租房不体面,难道一家三代挤在一起就体面了吗?

T**********r
发帖数: 1223

我觉得你应该离开美国才对啊，不要到美国占用美国人的资源。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

m*********g
发帖数: 263

楼主不可思议。多少美国白垃圾，黑垃圾，艾滋病靠着disability, medcaid 生活，吸
毒，吃methadone, 赖在医院蹭吃蹭喝蹭麻醉药，自己因为贪吃太胖，动不了，还要政
府给他们请保姆。跟他们比起来，中国父母的福利只是毛毛雨了。中国移民还交了稅的
，那些黑人，孩子生一堆的犹太人几代人都没工作过，都是靠别人养的。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

z****n
发帖数: 1933

中国父母是代表中国政府来美国拿中国政府欠他们应得的福利。
同样辛苦一辈子，为啥美国老人有很多积蓄,中国老人穷很多。
都是被国际贸易不平等地位剥削的。
中国政府给美国上贡了几十年，欠国内的福利债，这些老人拿的只是很少一部分。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

g***s
发帖数: 3811

"从最根本的说起,你的电话费可以从30多降到7块多,甚至你可以申请每月250分钟的免
费手机,"
how?

【在 c*******e 的大作中提到】

b***u
发帖数: 276

mark, hehe

i*****2
发帖数: 14

DISGRACE!!!

j****w
发帖数: 756

顶这个，虽然我父母不会移民，我支持他人移民父母，吃救济

【在 m*********g 的大作中提到】

: 楼主不可思议。多少美国白垃圾，黑垃圾，艾滋病靠着disability, medcaid 生活，吸
: 毒，吃methadone, 赖在医院蹭吃蹭喝蹭麻醉药，自己因为贪吃太胖，动不了，还要政
: 府给他们请保姆。跟他们比起来，中国父母的福利只是毛毛雨了。中国移民还交了稅的
: ，那些黑人，孩子生一堆的犹太人几代人都没工作过，都是靠别人养的。

d********f
发帖数: 43471

你们都中计了，这是一个挖墙党的钓鱼贴

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

u**g
发帖数: 280

Zhuangbility

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

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进入Living版参与讨论

f*****1
发帖数: 79

楼主在讨论不是穷人的父母却领照顾穷人的福利。不明白为什么有人提到“中国人诋毁
中国人”，占小便宜为自豪的中国人还少么？
说话要就是论事，不要扯那么多，不要扯到这不是民族团结上来。

w*******6
发帖数: 1897

d****a
发帖数: 3087

楼主是模范公民。估计平时也老和朋友，熟人检讨自己的错误。都是GCD教育的后果，
遇事情要先自我批评。这样党就好管理了。

h**********g
发帖数: 254

请睁大眼睛，看一看楼主给的link。再看一看一个网友提供的一篇文章对link那篇作者
的评价。

【在 f*****1 的大作中提到】

: 楼主在讨论不是穷人的父母却领照顾穷人的福利。不明白为什么有人提到“中国人诋毁
: 中国人”，占小便宜为自豪的中国人还少么？
: 说话要就是论事，不要扯那么多，不要扯到这不是民族团结上来。

z*******i
发帖数: 673

正因为有楼主说的那种情况，我真希望金融危机再大点，那样政府没钱来大方了，有人
想钻空子的机会就被卡掉了。我也遇到一个老人，在国内是某个研究所的，退休以后有
退休金，到了美国（好像是儿子给办过来的）却谎称没收入，住进了廉租房，每月还领
几百块的生活费。说实话，无论用什么样的爱国理论都无法让我接受这种行为。总不至
于为了表现爱国得把中国人的地痞流氓全都爱了吧，这叫啥逻辑。

T**f
发帖数: 89

孩子申请父母移民过来都需要签10年的经济担保。
这些老人来了后，没收入可以是真的，但是住进廉租房，每月领几百块的生活费。他
们不担心政府找他们的孩子要这个钱？

h**********g
发帖数: 254

可以看出，你是一个有正义感的人。但是在开口之前，最好先搞清楚大多数人在批评什
么。

【在 z*******i 的大作中提到】

: 正因为有楼主说的那种情况，我真希望金融危机再大点，那样政府没钱来大方了，有人
: 想钻空子的机会就被卡掉了。我也遇到一个老人，在国内是某个研究所的，退休以后有
: 退休金，到了美国（好像是儿子给办过来的）却谎称没收入，住进了廉租房，每月还领
: 几百块的生活费。说实话，无论用什么样的爱国理论都无法让我接受这种行为。总不至
: 于为了表现爱国得把中国人的地痞流氓全都爱了吧，这叫啥逻辑。

h**********g
发帖数: 254

暂且相信你说的是对的，暂且也相信你说的关联也是正确的。能否讲解一下相关的法律
条文证明你所说的,也算做了个好事。

【在 T**f 的大作中提到】

: 孩子申请父母移民过来都需要签10年的经济担保。
: 这些老人来了后，没收入可以是真的，但是住进廉租房，每月领几百块的生活费。他
: 们不担心政府找他们的孩子要这个钱？

C*******d
发帖数: 15836

http://www.insubuy.com/guide/new-immigrants-medical-insurance-p

【在 h**********g 的大作中提到】

: 暂且相信你说的是对的，暂且也相信你说的关联也是正确的。能否讲解一下相关的法律
: 条文证明你所说的,也算做了个好事。

a***a
发帖数: 583

中国及中国后裔在2000年的人口调查还不到1%
整个亚洲人口在美国只有5%
你这中国人占美国总人口才5%不到。理论上是没错，实际上是误导
下回说话要按实际数字说

了个中国人太太，然后说中国人水平差，尤其是CS的水平差，不是人才的那个教授？

【在 d*****s 的大作中提到】

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h**********g
发帖数: 254

谢谢。从中看出，拿到medicare welfare 不是那么容易的。拿到的应该是符合要求的
。没有证明或否证那个 "tuff girl"所宣称的。
我到是刚在移民局官方网页看到，子女对父母的经济担保到一定时候会终止。比如说：
父母成了公民。

【在 C*******d 的大作中提到】

: http://www.insubuy.com/guide/new-immigrants-medical-insurance-p

C*******d
发帖数: 15836

不客气！
Medicare移民父母基本上都不会符合，因为那么必须在美国工作足够年限。
Medicaid属于政府福利医疗，这个在新移民的资助表中明确规定禁止使用。
你查得对，子女对父母的经济担保在父母成为公民后会失效。否则的话，根本就没有什
么10年的期限问题。

【在 h**********g 的大作中提到】

: 谢谢。从中看出，拿到medicare welfare 不是那么容易的。拿到的应该是符合要求的
: 。没有证明或否证那个 "tuff girl"所宣称的。
: 我到是刚在移民局官方网页看到，子女对父母的经济担保到一定时候会终止。比如说：
: 父母成了公民。

z*******i
发帖数: 673

我就看见楼主在批评钻空子的中国人（因为他只知道中国人的事情），我也看到有人拿
类似爱国爱同胞之类的理论批评他。我说了我知道的一件事，就这样。其他还有什么人
有别的说法，我不关心。

【在 h**********g 的大作中提到】

: 可以看出，你是一个有正义感的人。但是在开口之前，最好先搞清楚大多数人在批评什
: 么。

p*********w
发帖数: 23432

不错。吃跨美帝。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

T**f
发帖数: 89

我指的是申请父母时签的I-864表。
我有个朋友，父母过来后每天在家里很无聊，附近的老人中心有车子上门接送的各种活
动，他们都不去参加。因为听说老人中心可以每天按每个老人向政府拿80～120块
钱。
我不是很清楚这些条款，也是在学习了解阶段，

【在 h**********g 的大作中提到】

: 暂且相信你说的是对的，暂且也相信你说的关联也是正确的。能否讲解一下相关的法律
: 条文证明你所说的,也算做了个好事。

u********w
发帖数: 599

住福利房要有一statement说明没有其他房产。
我家保姆实诚，跟福利房管理员interview的时候回答说自己有房。后来想改嘴，管理
员要国内开证明。老太太不想过分，干脆算了。
所以那些说住福利房的中国老人都合法的，再想想吧。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

d********f
发帖数: 43471

其实lz也不是有正义感，lz只是因为自己还没来得及拿盘子，蛋糕就没了，所以有点悲
愤

【在 f*****1 的大作中提到】

h********y
发帖数: 2092

他可能觉着她父母很有钱，但是不沾点福利的便宜又觉着吃亏，因此很矛盾。

b*****1
发帖数: 1731

美国人一样，她女儿不仅医疗免费，还学怎么教育孩子。每个星期有个人来教她，也教
她女儿，她说那个老师每个星期都主动打电话来她们家，因为挣的政府的钱，多容易。
她说现在都不感兴趣了，那个老师还老打电话过来。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

m****o
发帖数: 837

不可否认有些住廉租房的老人是隐瞒了国内的收入，存款，和住房情况的。这种情况实
际是在骗取福利。

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j*****I
发帖数: 2626

如果真能推动把这个福利裁了，而且各国的移民难民都裁，没怎么工作过的native也裁
，也算是给加州经济做贡献。赞成。不过这样的阻力不小。人墨西哥人一家的lobbists
就能把这个给毙了。如果只对付中国人，难度也不小，量他没那个胆敢弄个种族歧视的
法案出来。
这个人好像是计算机系的faculty. 是不是research搞不下去了，脑筋有点错乱啊。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

d***y
发帖数: 408

美国最后会死在这个制度缺陷上，本来一个福利体系建立在自觉和守法的基础上，当一
个人自作聪明发现可以沾一些小便宜，其他人唯恐自己被错过争先恐后的时候，这个制
度就被滥用了。不根本解决制度问题，美国的死套难解，这无关于种族。

c****e
发帖数: 1567

我也不知道我将来会不会为了实惠厚着脸去让我父母也那样-咱中国人基本只讲实际。
不是说咱中国人最要面子了吗？咱们到底怎么一回事啊，i'm confused :(

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

b***z
发帖数: 2723

这就象加州的地震一样，谁知道什么时候来，即使来了自己说不定正好回国探亲。气候
好，还不如先享受起来。只是要愿赌服输。

w********e
发帖数: 643

从我所知道的,有的美国老师(只是中学老师)30十年退休后可以有18万左右的PENSION(
只是PENSION,不包括其他的),这可都是我们纳税交的钱支付给他们.这样的福利合理吗?

t****e
发帖数: 527

哪里有那么好的pension？从没有听说过。

吗?

【在 w********e 的大作中提到】

: 从我所知道的,有的美国老师(只是中学老师)30十年退休后可以有18万左右的PENSION(
: 只是PENSION,不包括其他的),这可都是我们纳税交的钱支付给他们.这样的福利合理吗?

c****e
发帖数: 1567

lobbists
前面不是有人说别的族群立法保护他们自己吗？偶还想问具体啥立法保护某个族群能通
过的。
发信人: jobless (被就业), 信区: Living
标题: Re: 父母领美国福利
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Dec 12 14:58:14 2011, 美东)
其实我看老中排挤老中，就觉得有点不可思议
老中没地位，有很重要的一个原因就是人口少.人多起来总会出现几个带头人,所以不管
你是phd,还是偷渡搞政庇的，应该都是欢迎的。
我不提倡搞种族抱团，但是当别的族群日益扩大，并且提高到立法来保护自己的时候，
你这些少数裔就只能等死。学学老印老墨，别老盯着诋毁自己人

【在 j*****I 的大作中提到】

: 如果真能推动把这个福利裁了，而且各国的移民难民都裁，没怎么工作过的native也裁
: ，也算是给加州经济做贡献。赞成。不过这样的阻力不小。人墨西哥人一家的lobbists
: 就能把这个给毙了。如果只对付中国人，难度也不小，量他没那个胆敢弄个种族歧视的
: 法案出来。
: 这个人好像是计算机系的faculty. 是不是research搞不下去了，脑筋有点错乱啊。

x*******g
发帖数: 1363

唉，为什么无论在哪，我都落到被剥削的阶层呢?

c****e
发帖数: 1567

利房
说得对，老美好恶，你们快点卷铺盖回国吧

【在 s******m 的大作中提到】

: 美国白人为了自己的利益要牺牲亚裔民族小孩平等上大学的权利中国老人住一点福利房
: 就嚷嚷着福利社会要被毁了美国人真够恶心的
:
: 周末见到朋友，他父母都给办到美国，住福利房，领福利金，好象安排得很好，我想到
: 自己父母的将来，就想先查查是否合法合理。好象是合法的，或者是合法地钻了法律
: 漏洞,但好象不大合适。
: SSI和廉价住房宗旨是给真正的很穷的穷人的，而中国老人或他们的子女基本都算中产
: ，而且子女办老人来，都保证过不让老人成为社会负担的。另外，SSI和廉价住房在一
: 般美国人当中，包括老墨眼里，都是很没面子的事，而我们中国人却毫不觉得，而把它
: 看成理所当然，不要白不要的东西。下面

R******d
发帖数: 644

真正符合条件的领救济也没得说，但是国内有财产的为了领福利瞒报虚报或者做虚假担
保的是不对。且不说查出来如何处理，我看最难办的是将来怎么教育子女——是教孩子
诚实正直呢，还是利益为先、不惜以说谎为代价呢?觉得住廉价房无所谓的，你们希望
子女将来去住廉价房么？

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

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d********f
发帖数: 43471

其实是福利制度被买票党滥用了。当年罗斯福建立美国最初的联邦福利制度时候，福利
制度并不是based on needs.他其实是建立了一个政府就业机制。当年收取福利金是需
要工作的，美国靠这个制度建造了世界上最好的公路体系，大批国家和州属公园，劳工
除了获得衣食住行，工资会由政府寄给妻子孩子。但是二战之后在坑你爹总统开始的医
疗福利改革后，美帝的福利制度彻底沦为买票党的工具

【在 d***y 的大作中提到】

: 美国最后会死在这个制度缺陷上，本来一个福利体系建立在自觉和守法的基础上，当一
: 个人自作聪明发现可以沾一些小便宜，其他人唯恐自己被错过争先恐后的时候，这个制
: 度就被滥用了。不根本解决制度问题，美国的死套难解，这无关于种族。

z*********n
发帖数: 94654

美国的福利跟欧洲加拿大比起来小巫见大巫，那俩地区才是滥用福利呢

【在 d********f 的大作中提到】

: 其实是福利制度被买票党滥用了。当年罗斯福建立美国最初的联邦福利制度时候，福利
: 制度并不是based on needs.他其实是建立了一个政府就业机制。当年收取福利金是需
: 要工作的，美国靠这个制度建造了世界上最好的公路体系，大批国家和州属公园，劳工
: 除了获得衣食住行，工资会由政府寄给妻子孩子。但是二战之后在坑你爹总统开始的医
: 疗福利改革后，美帝的福利制度彻底沦为买票党的工具

c****e
发帖数: 1567

偶觉得lz没说清楚，他文中针对转法律的空子的老中，其实这样的老中还只是贪小便宜
不自重的问题，就好比滥用商家的优惠政策的那些人，真正的问题在你说的隐瞒国内收
入房产骗取福利的违法行为，这种就好比shoplifting，一刀切的问题没啥好争的，他
们就是老中的耻辱。

【在 u********w 的大作中提到】

: 住福利房要有一statement说明没有其他房产。
: 我家保姆实诚，跟福利房管理员interview的时候回答说自己有房。后来想改嘴，管理
: 员要国内开证明。老太太不想过分，干脆算了。
: 所以那些说住福利房的中国老人都合法的，再想想吧。

c****e
发帖数: 1567

偶觉得lz没说清楚，他文中针对转法律的空子的老中，其实这样的老中还只是贪小便宜
不自重的问题，就好比滥用商家的优惠政策的那些人，真正的问题在你说的隐瞒国内收
入房产骗取福利的违法行为，这种就好比shoplifting，一刀切的问题没啥好争的，他
们就是老中的耻辱。

【在 m****o 的大作中提到】

: 不可否认有些住廉租房的老人是隐瞒了国内的收入，存款，和住房情况的。这种情况实
: 际是在骗取福利。

z*********n
发帖数: 94654

我以前打工的餐馆师傅都是报税报一半，据说一分不报也不好
报高了福利拿不到了
所以餐馆可能一个月给个一千paycheck，剩余给cash

【在 c****e 的大作中提到】

:
: 偶觉得lz没说清楚，他文中针对转法律的空子的老中，其实这样的老中还只是贪小便宜
: 不自重的问题，就好比滥用商家的优惠政策的那些人，真正的问题在你说的隐瞒国内收
: 入房产骗取福利的违法行为，这种就好比shoplifting，一刀切的问题没啥好争的，他
: 们就是老中的耻辱。

c****e
发帖数: 1567

re，那些觉得交了税就可以骗取福利的人还是回国享福吧，不用给美国政府交税了，美国
人民承受不起，还是回国去给中国政府交税吧，偶们支持你们父母骗取中国政府的福利，
以后你们和你们的孩子也都可以领中国政府的福利了。

【在 R******d 的大作中提到】

: 真正符合条件的领救济也没得说，但是国内有财产的为了领福利瞒报虚报或者做虚假担
: 保的是不对。且不说查出来如何处理，我看最难办的是将来怎么教育子女——是教孩子
: 诚实正直呢，还是利益为先、不惜以说谎为代价呢?觉得住廉价房无所谓的，你们希望
: 子女将来去住廉价房么？

d********f
发帖数: 43471

未必，欧洲和大家拿以前人种比较纯，所以福利宽松未必以为多支出。美国的情况更有
一个特列就是坑你爹同时改革了福利和医疗保险制度，这个就非常坑爹了。其实food
stamp和medicare比起来那就是一根牛毛，相比欧洲和大家拿，美国的医疗福利病人没
收益，政府亏大钱。所以比不了啊

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

: 美国的福利跟欧洲加拿大比起来小巫见大巫，那俩地区才是滥用福利呢

l*****o
发帖数: 26631

逃税的人多了去啦，也不是光中国人这么干的。
我修房子就全部付的cash, contractor说付支票就是另一个价钱了。他是美国人，恩。

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

: 我以前打工的餐馆师傅都是报税报一半，据说一分不报也不好
: 报高了福利拿不到了
: 所以餐馆可能一个月给个一千paycheck，剩余给cash

z*********n
发帖数: 94654

嗯，这个主要不是逃税，是收入低于一个数量有福利拿，呵呵
这个也没挑出来中国人的意思，就是我见过的而已啦
美国人cash job的很多的，contractor，cash only 的papa mama shop，高档餐馆的小
费啥的都不少钱

【在 l*****o 的大作中提到】

: 逃税的人多了去啦，也不是光中国人这么干的。
: 我修房子就全部付的cash, contractor说付支票就是另一个价钱了。他是美国人，恩。

l*****o
发帖数: 26631

100

恩，对对，就是为了拿福利。
我就是想说这种人多了去了，中国老人占的比例应该不大吧。
另外我去walmart的时候，发现这里黑人基本上都是付cash, 不刷卡的。

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

: 嗯，这个主要不是逃税，是收入低于一个数量有福利拿，呵呵
: 这个也没挑出来中国人的意思，就是我见过的而已啦
: 美国人cash job的很多的，contractor，cash only 的papa mama shop，高档餐馆的小
: 费啥的都不少钱

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c****e
发帖数: 1567

101

你确定他是因为要逃税？偶觉得不一定。
偶的cleaning lady是个老美白女，特别喜欢cash，有时候cash不够想给她支票她宁可
少一点也要cash，觉得她不是为了逃税，因为她是个人临时干干，而且是她低收入免税
的。

【在 l*****o 的大作中提到】

: 逃税的人多了去啦，也不是光中国人这么干的。
: 我修房子就全部付的cash, contractor说付支票就是另一个价钱了。他是美国人，恩。

c****e
发帖数: 1567

102

俺也觉得奇怪为啥老美那么喜欢用cash，有人说是因为credit card会用超支进而负高
利息债，用cash就没这个问题了，或者俺猜是他们有些人信用不够开卡的？

【在 l*****o 的大作中提到】

: 恩，对对，就是为了拿福利。
: 我就是想说这种人多了去了，中国老人占的比例应该不大吧。
: 另外我去walmart的时候，发现这里黑人基本上都是付cash, 不刷卡的。

z*********n
发帖数: 94654

103

...

【在 c****e 的大作中提到】

:
: 俺也觉得奇怪为啥老美那么喜欢用cash，有人说是因为credit card会用超支进而负高
: 利息债，用cash就没这个问题了，或者俺猜是他们有些人信用不够开卡的？

l*****o
发帖数: 26631

104

不一定是逃税，也可能是为了福利，不过我觉得都差不多么，都属于钻空子不是。

【在 c****e 的大作中提到】

l*****o
发帖数: 26631

105

我原来以为是他们找不到付paycheck的稳定工作，都是临时性付cash的工作。
看了这个帖子后我觉得说不定是为了拿福利呢 -.-
就算没有信用卡，也可以用debit card吧。

【在 c****e 的大作中提到】

z*********n
发帖数: 94654

106

就是逃税，别把“老美”想的那么美好

【在 l*****o 的大作中提到】

: 我原来以为是他们找不到付paycheck的稳定工作，都是临时性付cash的工作。
: 看了这个帖子后我觉得说不定是为了拿福利呢 -.-
: 就算没有信用卡，也可以用debit card吧。

d*****t
发帖数: 7903

107

看了看大家的评论，看来还是明白人居多，很是欣慰。。。

L*****s
发帖数: 24744

108

group % on welfare, California
all immigrants 45%
Chinese 55%
Filipino 39%
Iranian 26%
Korean 50%
Mexican 21%
Soviet Union 66%
Vietnamese 74%
all native-born 9%
吓人呀,中国人...

h**********g
发帖数: 254

109

还好你不是越南人或苏联人，要不然你还不被吓死？

【在 L*****s 的大作中提到】

: group % on welfare, California
: all immigrants 45%
: Chinese 55%
: Filipino 39%
: Iranian 26%
: Korean 50%
: Mexican 21%
: Soviet Union 66%
: Vietnamese 74%
: all native-born 9%

f*****i
发帖数: 3558

110

支持拿福利需要工作如果不是不能工作的话

【在 d********f 的大作中提到】

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w********6
发帖数: 12977

111

学会一招了，将来把父母搬过来吃他丫美国的

s**********d
发帖数: 36899

112

因为他们没有卡！
很多人连银行账户都没有！
卡还要再看credit! debt也要看！
老黑老墨啥都没有只能cash!
他们也不收check，因为不能用要到check cashing地方去换cash
交很多手续费！
你们蜜罐子里长大的！

【在 l*****o 的大作中提到】

s**********d
发帖数: 36899

113

跟逃税没关系！拿check一样不用报。但他们没有银行账户只能到
check cashing的地方去换现金要交很多手续费！

【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】

: 就是逃税，别把“老美”想的那么美好

w********6
发帖数: 12977

114

你显然不懂行，我下面解释一哈

【在 s**********d 的大作中提到】

:
: 跟逃税没关系！拿check一样不用报。但他们没有银行账户只能到
: check cashing的地方去换现金要交很多手续费！

w********6
发帖数: 12977

115

上次为一个朋友的朋友帮忙，去为一对台湾老夫妻到Social Security做翻译，
看见你们SS的工作人员电脑真神奇，立即可以看见你所有银行账户和所有金融机构的账
户：领取SS的低收入补贴是有条件的，包括不能有住房，银行存款不能超过多少，收
入不能超过多少。

w********6
发帖数: 12977

116

另外，人家还看你过去几年是否有奢侈行为，比如出国旅行啥的。
我帮忙的这对夫妻，男的其实以前是台湾华航退休的机械师，在美国LAX的一家飞机服
务公司做过几年，现在有三份收入，美国的SS，美国公司的退休金（很少，因为做的年
头太短），台湾华航的退休金（美国政府居然没查出来）。

r****7
发帖数: 1387

117

你说的这些不都是老中眼里的垃圾吗?????????????????

【在 m*********g 的大作中提到】

w********6
发帖数: 12977

118

所以，那些美国人，很多也是为了保住自己的福利，才拒绝支票的，虽然不是严格意义
上的逃税。

w*l
发帖数: 2550

119

靠，有的老中对别的老中要求还真是严格。

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

c***x
发帖数: 1169

120

"而中国老人或他们的子女基本都算中产"
Are u kidding?

【在 M*********s 的大作中提到】

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j*****I
发帖数: 2626

121

那个调查报告抓住中国的文化传统说事，说什么老人来做free baby sitter,孩子长大
了没用了就踢出家门申请福利房，等等。很明显，其他的事情他可以弄出个统计数据。
但是这些什么free baby sitter什么的，完全是感情的渲染。我身边的例子，基本是父
母帮忙过来看个一年的居多。不是不想帮忙，而是种种原因帮不长。那种父母一直把小
孩带到上幼儿园的家庭绝对是个例。
该文作者基本的思路就是，先从道德层面，把你这个种族搞臭，然后该种族无论做什么
事都是没道理的。我不明白，这种充满种族歧视的调查报告怎么没人去查? 是 UC
Davis的一个什么叫兽。估计这个不是他的处女作。有时间大家人肉一把，给他出个专
集，估计证据就够了。他的基本调子已经定了，就是种族歧视。这种上不了台面的邪门
左道，继续搞下去，种族歧视的大尾(yi)巴肯定是一撸一大把，关键是怎么手机证据的
问题。

【在 c***x 的大作中提到】

: "而中国老人或他们的子女基本都算中产"
: Are u kidding?

s**********d
发帖数: 36899

122

别说，美国家庭median income不到五万，基本上百分之八九十的连偷渡的都算
还真能算中产。
不过中国老人不算。他们子女是不是中产或富豪跟他们领福利没有任何关系。

【在 c***x 的大作中提到】

: "而中国老人或他们的子女基本都算中产"
: Are u kidding?

S***d
发帖数: 1802

123

Sigh, u guys r stupid.
There is no true welfare in this country.

★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb - 中文网站浏览器

【在 k**n 的大作中提到】

: 你这么说是因为你对美国文化其实并不了解，基于一个中国人喜欢占小便宜的
: assumption.
: 上周报的西雅图美国夫妇住了1million的房子，还拿政府福利，到处度假
: 一大队老黑，身体强壮，什么都不干，是真正穷人，到处领福利
: 还有没有计划生育的劳模童鞋们，生了一堆去拿food stamp,medicaid
: 我每年缴那末多的税，不给我父母，我也愿意给中国老人，
: 美国人说，"Bob is an honest guy, even though he didn't pay his tax."

(共1页)

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