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Medicalpractice版 - 急重症求助:腹泻-肝攻急损-咽喉部严重感染
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1 (共1页)
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
1
患者男,28岁,因咽喉疼痛伴发热12天入院。患者自诉12天前因腹泻、腹痛后服用泻立
停,左 氧氟沙星约5小时后出现咽喉疼痛,较剧烈,伴发 热,最高达39.5摄氏度。之
后患者咽痛加重,伴 不规则发热,约持续4,5小时后可恢复至正常体 温,伴腹痛,上
腹部明显,无腹泻。在当地医院 诊断为“化脓性扁桃体炎”,先后给与”青霉素,阿
奇霉素,克林霉素,头孢”等药物治疗无明显好 转,两天前被医托带至“老中医”处
开了两付中药 服用,仍无好转。曾查血常规“白细胞升高”(具 体未见报告单)。起
病来患者精神、睡眠差,食 纳少,厌油,小便赤黄,大便干结。
既往史:无传染病史,常发扁桃体炎及口腔溃 疡,经常自服抗生素。
个人史:未到过疫区,无冶游史,发病前一天曾 大量饮用散装白酒。
体查:体温38.5, 脉搏78次/分,呼吸18次/分,神 志清楚,急性病容,巩膜轻度黄染
,双侧颈部可 扪及多个黄豆大小淋巴结,非串珠状,无压痛, 无粘连。上腹部压痛无
反跳痛,肝脾未触及(检 查欠合作),肝区叩痛。右侧臀部皮肤有一不规 则暗红色皮
损,直径约1.5cm,附血痂,较浅表。 专科情况:双侧扁桃体二度肿大,有大片深溃 疡
,覆盖假膜,污秽,有干酪样坏死物,咽喉腔 亦有多处类似病变。
实验室检查: 咽拭子培养:真菌、嗜血杆菌、细菌均无生长。 血常规:WBC:3.5×10'
9, 中性粒下降为主;肝功 能:AST:9856u/L, ALT:7865u/L,直胆间胆均轻度 升高,**
*30,球蛋白40。 凝血:PT25s,TT延长,APTT正常 尿常规:蛋白、尿胆、隐血均1+
昨天刚刚收的病人,请大家讨论一下诊断及治疗。 感染性中毒?药物中毒急性肝损?
血液病?风湿 病免疫病?
肝损伤可能是续发的,但是原发咽喉部病变还没确诊
结核,NK淋巴瘤,嗜红,真菌感染不排除, 其次风免
排除AIDS;明天去照咽喉部病变。
宝肝护胃药已经用了,做胃镜没有指征:无便血呕血, 突发的咽喉部病损用饮酒不好
解释,白细胞一开始升高后面下降,考虑有感染,病且可能出现中毒性感染。病人经常
自用抗生素,用量不大
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
2
没有HIV,梅毒,病毒性肝炎
血培养结果未回
准备骨穿,查结核,风免全套,病变处活检,完善腹部B超
目前给与头孢美唑3gBid 氢化泼尼松20mgQd
门冬氨酸鸟氨酸,复方甘草酸苷,复合维B,能量合剂,朵贝喊漱,布地奈得雾化等对
症支持治疗
真菌感染不排除,抗生素用不用?
激素该不该用?该怎么用?激素可以抗炎,减轻肝细胞自身损伤,但可能至感染扩散。
白细胞下降是严重感染所致?还是原发血液方面疾病?
现在的主要问题是怎么就出现急性肝衰了,在这种情况下抗生素如何使用,减量多少,
需要停药吗?
激素还继续吗?
保肝和抗炎抗菌如何权衡?但目前还没有证据说是细菌性感染引起的扁桃体及咽喉假膜
,也没有证据说不是,抗生素是否还需要经验性用。培养因为是已经使用抗生素十几天
滞后进行的,如果是阴性结果也不能排除没有感染。
a********n
发帖数: 182
3
I am thinking two possibilities.
1. EBV infection
2. Fungus infection
Stop antibiotics and steroids. Support care with Chinese herbs such as
Banlangen. Try antifungal meds while waiting for cx report.
Just my two cents.
A*******s
发帖数: 9638
4
I am waiting for some residents to show us some muscles. Where are senior
residents/fellows like forestpark and supernav?
LZ has made some good differential DDx. Infectious mononucleosis is a very
good thought. Chinese herbs may carry some liver toxicities, but the
component is unknown to us. So the patient could just have pharyngitis with
liver toxicity 2nd to Chinese herb as well.
My 2 cents too.


【在 a********n 的大作中提到】
: I am thinking two possibilities.
: 1. EBV infection
: 2. Fungus infection
: Stop antibiotics and steroids. Support care with Chinese herbs such as
: Banlangen. Try antifungal meds while waiting for cx report.
: Just my two cents.

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
5
多谢楼上的。大家请继续帮助
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
6
进展:输血浆,免疫学、血液学,恙虫病检查,生化肝肾功能,凝血,血气动态追踪,
感染科,临床药学科会诊
A*******s
发帖数: 9638
7
停药是最好的保肝。
其他的就等等吧, 相信他的年龄。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 进展:输血浆,免疫学、血液学,恙虫病检查,生化肝肾功能,凝血,血气动态追踪,
: 感染科,临床药学科会诊

m****g
发帖数: 42
8
EBV associated HLH (or XLP1)?
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
9
中药里有两个比较毒的药:胆木通,重蝼。厌油是从服中药后开始的,吃完中药后就出
现了上腹绞痛。
现在考虑重症感染和药物性肝损伤.
患者扁桃体咽部溃疡已经好转,肝酶已经降了1000多,但是凝血功能很差,怕DIC. 当
地缺血浆。家人献了血,不够。
A*******s
发帖数: 9638
10
这个病人什么时候发现肝功能不正常的? 是不是散装白酒引起的肝功能异常?

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 中药里有两个比较毒的药:胆木通,重蝼。厌油是从服中药后开始的,吃完中药后就出
: 现了上腹绞痛。
: 现在考虑重症感染和药物性肝损伤.
: 患者扁桃体咽部溃疡已经好转,肝酶已经降了1000多,但是凝血功能很差,怕DIC. 当
: 地缺血浆。家人献了血,不够。

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l*****9
发帖数: 9501
11
星期一,住进当前医院的第一天,检查发现肝功能异常。一起喝酒的其他人没有发现问
题。自服抗生素量不大。所以最大的可能是中药导致药毒性肝功能异常。

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 这个病人什么时候发现肝功能不正常的? 是不是散装白酒引起的肝功能异常?
A*******s
发帖数: 9638
12
12天前饮酒, 2天前吃中药, 我明白了。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 星期一,住进当前医院的第一天,检查发现肝功能异常。一起喝酒的其他人没有发现问
: 题。自服抗生素量不大。所以最大的可能是中药导致药毒性肝功能异常。

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
13
酒精,抗生素,有毒性中药,乱吃一气,导致肝功能衰竭?
A*******s
发帖数: 9638
14
很可能一切都开始于酒精。
很多酒精中毒者问, 为什么别人喝得比我多都没事? 人跟人是不一样的。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 酒精,抗生素,有毒性中药,乱吃一气,导致肝功能衰竭?
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
15
万古霉素三天用了之后体温还是下不来,撤万古上美罗培南
血液科:骨髓嗜血状态,可能是续发于感染,D二聚体非常高,可能存在DIC,或者微血
管栓塞

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 很可能一切都开始于酒精。
: 很多酒精中毒者问, 为什么别人喝得比我多都没事? 人跟人是不一样的。

s******v
发帖数: 477
16
Why give him "万古霉素"? Any positive culture? Not every elevated WBC or
fever is infection. Based on his history, drug toxicity is highly suspected.
I think the best thing to do is stop all the medications except support
therapy before any positive culture.
m*********c
发帖数: 253
17
i am 2nd to this.
Evidenced based medicine is all about evidence. If blood culture is negative
, there is no evidence of any sorts of infection. Of course, you can not
rule out infectin but you can not prove it for sure. So please stop all meds
except ivf.

suspected.

【在 s******v 的大作中提到】
: Why give him "万古霉素"? Any positive culture? Not every elevated WBC or
: fever is infection. Based on his history, drug toxicity is highly suspected.
: I think the best thing to do is stop all the medications except support
: therapy before any positive culture.

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
18
万古霉素90%从肾脏代谢,基本没有肝损,我觉得咽喉部不像感染性病损,那是感染科权
威让用的,意见是:患者既往有反复的扁桃体化脓病史,又经常输各种抗生素,免疫力
底下,重症感染不排除,所以用上万古

suspected.

【在 s******v 的大作中提到】
: Why give him "万古霉素"? Any positive culture? Not every elevated WBC or
: fever is infection. Based on his history, drug toxicity is highly suspected.
: I think the best thing to do is stop all the medications except support
: therapy before any positive culture.

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
19
本来打算诊断性用药,把所有抗生素停了,保肝加激素冲击,如果有效,发热好转就不
是感染,反之感染不排除 ,但是专家们最终意见:患者肝功能一塌糊涂,如果停抗生
素,感染扩散,生的机会就更小,所以目前是在三联保肝,强力抗生素(万古用了三天
体温仍然高,基本判定万古无效,停万古换上美罗培南)下,每天输注丙种球蛋白下,
甲基泼尼松龙40mg Bid冲击
我在想他到热带雨林地区被虫咬是否感染了未知的病原
打算做Pt-ct但是费用太高,而且造影剂可能会有肝损

negative
meds

【在 m*********c 的大作中提到】
: i am 2nd to this.
: Evidenced based medicine is all about evidence. If blood culture is negative
: , there is no evidence of any sorts of infection. Of course, you can not
: rule out infectin but you can not prove it for sure. So please stop all meds
: except ivf.
:
: suspected.

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
20
你说现在这个病人如果幸存, 是你的三联起效呢还是这个病人命不该绝?
如果这个病人是你, 你会让这些专家这么走马灯的换药而没有任何证据说明有菌血症?

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 本来打算诊断性用药,把所有抗生素停了,保肝加激素冲击,如果有效,发热好转就不
: 是感染,反之感染不排除 ,但是专家们最终意见:患者肝功能一塌糊涂,如果停抗生
: 素,感染扩散,生的机会就更小,所以目前是在三联保肝,强力抗生素(万古用了三天
: 体温仍然高,基本判定万古无效,停万古换上美罗培南)下,每天输注丙种球蛋白下,
: 甲基泼尼松龙40mg Bid冲击
: 我在想他到热带雨林地区被虫咬是否感染了未知的病原
: 打算做Pt-ct但是费用太高,而且造影剂可能会有肝损
:
: negative
: meds

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A*******s
发帖数: 9638
21
According to wiki:
Drug-induced fever is a state wherein the administration of drugs intended
to help a patient causes a fever. The drug may interfere with heat
dissipation peripherally, increase the rate of metabolism, evoke a cellular
or humoral immune response, mimic endogenous pyrogen, or damage tissues.
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
22
我不是医生,帮朋友问的

症?

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 你说现在这个病人如果幸存, 是你的三联起效呢还是这个病人命不该绝?
: 如果这个病人是你, 你会让这些专家这么走马灯的换药而没有任何证据说明有菌血症?

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
23
那就问问你的朋友, 呵呵

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 我不是医生,帮朋友问的
:
: 症?

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
24
我都尽快转回国内了,谢谢帮助

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 那就问问你的朋友, 呵呵
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
25
病情复杂,还没有确诊,很头疼

症?

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 你说现在这个病人如果幸存, 是你的三联起效呢还是这个病人命不该绝?
: 如果这个病人是你, 你会让这些专家这么走马灯的换药而没有任何证据说明有菌血症?

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
26
上级指令必须执行
有的老医生水平也不行

症?

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 你说现在这个病人如果幸存, 是你的三联起效呢还是这个病人命不该绝?
: 如果这个病人是你, 你会让这些专家这么走马灯的换药而没有任何证据说明有菌血症?

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
27
诊断很清楚啊, 化脓性咽炎, 酒精药物引起的中毒性肝炎, 药物热及其并发症。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 病情复杂,还没有确诊,很头疼
:
: 症?

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
28
这个病例,感觉主治局部感染,少用药,观察,也许是最合理的?

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 诊断很清楚啊, 化脓性咽炎, 酒精药物引起的中毒性肝炎, 药物热及其并发症。
A*******s
发帖数: 9638
29
老医生的经验丰富, 但观念陈旧, 不可能有改变的。
国内最大的问题就是没有evidence medicine这个概念, 以前因为科技所限,一个症状
随便猜,意见不一致就以年资为准。 在美国,毕业了就是attending, 年轻的和年老
的attending, 住院医听谁的? 听有证据的那个, 年资不管用的。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 上级指令必须执行
: 有的老医生水平也不行
:
: 症?

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
30
不是感觉, 是诊断是什么, 怎么治疗。
咽炎, 抗生素, 没问题。
血培养阴性,咽培养阴性,药物对发热无效,怀疑药物热, 加上肝炎, 停药。
很清晰的思路啊

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 这个病例,感觉主治局部感染,少用药,观察,也许是最合理的?
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l*****9
发帖数: 9501
31
国内医生认为:血培养阴性,并不能说明就是没有感染,于是经验性用药
就是没有evidence medicine这个概念

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 老医生的经验丰富, 但观念陈旧, 不可能有改变的。
: 国内最大的问题就是没有evidence medicine这个概念, 以前因为科技所限,一个症状
: 随便猜,意见不一致就以年资为准。 在美国,毕业了就是attending, 年轻的和年老
: 的attending, 住院医听谁的? 听有证据的那个, 年资不管用的。

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
32
这个问题是我的。我不是医生,只好感觉一下。
国内认为还没有确诊,但是不敢耽误治疗时机,于是经验性用药

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 不是感觉, 是诊断是什么, 怎么治疗。
: 咽炎, 抗生素, 没问题。
: 血培养阴性,咽培养阴性,药物对发热无效,怀疑药物热, 加上肝炎, 停药。
: 很清晰的思路啊

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
33
我不反对empiric treatment, 但这种治疗要有个度, 因为没有证据, 自己是医生应
该感到发虚才是。
我常常说,希望每个医生都牢记, 假设的诊断往往就是错的。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 国内医生认为:血培养阴性,并不能说明就是没有感染,于是经验性用药
: 就是没有evidence medicine这个概念

y******a
发帖数: 590
34
A few questions based on the history you provided:
How long did his GI symptoms last? Any stool tests done?
Besides the fever, abdominal pain, swollen tonsils, any other symptoms like
joint swelling, joint pain, rashes, chest pain, oral ulcers, etc..?
Did he have similar episodes in the past? Why you say he has frequent
tonsilitis and oral ulcers? was it bacterial tonsilitis, or cultures were
always negative? How frequent his oral ulcer is? any recurrent fever in
the past (you say he sometimes takes antiboitics himself, is it because of
fever? )
Any family history, similar episodes (except the liver issue)?
If all his cultures are repeatedly negative and viral studies (including CMV
, EBV, hepatitis panel, etc. ), it is unlikely caused by infection. I would
carefully rule out autoimmune and autoinflammatory diseases.
BTW, his liver is a seperate issue. I am curious what's causing his
persistant fever, tonsilitis, etc.



【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 患者男,28岁,因咽喉疼痛伴发热12天入院。患者自诉12天前因腹泻、腹痛后服用泻立
: 停,左 氧氟沙星约5小时后出现咽喉疼痛,较剧烈,伴发 热,最高达39.5摄氏度。之
: 后患者咽痛加重,伴 不规则发热,约持续4,5小时后可恢复至正常体 温,伴腹痛,上
: 腹部明显,无腹泻。在当地医院 诊断为“化脓性扁桃体炎”,先后给与”青霉素,阿
: 奇霉素,克林霉素,头孢”等药物治疗无明显好 转,两天前被医托带至“老中医”处
: 开了两付中药 服用,仍无好转。曾查血常规“白细胞升高”(具 体未见报告单)。起
: 病来患者精神、睡眠差,食 纳少,厌油,小便赤黄,大便干结。
: 既往史:无传染病史,常发扁桃体炎及口腔溃 疡,经常自服抗生素。
: 个人史:未到过疫区,无冶游史,发病前一天曾 大量饮用散装白酒。
: 体查:体温38.5, 脉搏78次/分,呼吸18次/分,神 志清楚,急性病容,巩膜轻度黄染

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
35
血培养阴性,咽培养阴性,药物对发热无效,怀疑药物热, 加上肝炎, 停药。
国内:他没用药之前就发热了
我:不是去基层医院了吗
国内:就是因为“发热、扁桃体化脓”去基层医院的。高热在前,用药在后,注意病史
我:那时的发热是因为扁桃体化脓,我觉着。服用的药应该足够降温了,后来的热性质
不同,伴有肝衰竭
国内:从一开始到现在发热,热型都一样
我:热型怎么判断?现在主要是肝衰竭吧?这个是唯一确定也拖不得的
国内:肝衰在积极纠正,主要现在在保肝
我:保肝,减药
国内:除了一组抗生素,其他都是保肝,对症支持的

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 我不反对empiric treatment, 但这种治疗要有个度, 因为没有证据, 自己是医生应
: 该感到发虚才是。
: 我常常说,希望每个医生都牢记, 假设的诊断往往就是错的。

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
36
D二聚体太高,必须得预防DIC, 所以用肝素要用,三联保肝,激素,都是有利于肝的

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 我不反对empiric treatment, 但这种治疗要有个度, 因为没有证据, 自己是医生应
: 该感到发虚才是。
: 我常常说,希望每个医生都牢记, 假设的诊断往往就是错的。

m****g
发帖数: 42
37
我觉得应该认真考虑一下是否HLH,免疫分析如何?有没有CD8扩增,NK功能如何?ferritin
level 是不是过千?如果是HLH,要化疗的,否则,没治.
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
38
国内: 补体,免疫球蛋白很低,补丙球不会加重肝衰,反而有利
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
39
骨髓确实有嗜血现象,不过血液内科考虑嗜血是续发的,现在外周血常规,没有全血细
胞减少
如果是嗜血确实要化疗

ferritin

【在 m****g 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得应该认真考虑一下是否HLH,免疫分析如何?有没有CD8扩增,NK功能如何?ferritin
: level 是不是过千?如果是HLH,要化疗的,否则,没治.

m****g
发帖数: 42
40
另外,每天输丙球?他的抗体水平低? IgG 半衰期是21天,要天天输吗?还有保肝,有这说
法么?除了给点vitK,怎么保肝?
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l*****9
发帖数: 9501
41
哪位大夫可以帮助看看化验单?文件太大,可以email

ferritin

【在 m****g 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得应该认真考虑一下是否HLH,免疫分析如何?有没有CD8扩增,NK功能如何?ferritin
: level 是不是过千?如果是HLH,要化疗的,否则,没治.

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
42
腹泻发热前一天出现,一过性,当时没做stool test,来我们医院后的stool test正常
-: 另外,每天输丙球?他的抗体水平低? IgG 半衰期是21天,要天天输吗?还有保肝,有这说
法么?除了给点vitK,怎么保肝?
ferritin
m****g
发帖数: 42
43
如何解释抗体水平低下? IgG,IgM,IgA, IgE 全低?患者难道有先天免疫缺陷?
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
44
目前没有明确的解释

【在 m****g 的大作中提到】
: 如何解释抗体水平低下? IgG,IgM,IgA, IgE 全低?患者难道有先天免疫缺陷?
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
45
一般状况可,神智清楚,生命体征平稳,皮肤黏膜无瘀斑,无出血点,扁桃体及咽后壁
溃疡明显好转,假膜明显减少
昨天在感染科的指导下上了万古霉素
保肝治疗后肝酶已经降到2000多,
夜间仍然发热达39.5度,
B超怀疑胆道蛔虫
凝血功能没有改善,纤维蛋白原1.3g, 血浆要不到,予静脉滴注纤维蛋白原2g,下午做
骨穿,骨髓涂片加培养
抗核抗体阳性,补体C3,C4下降,风湿免疫科会诊后考虑自身免疫性疾病可能
现在思路大概是这样的,扁桃体急性感染,诱发自身免疫性疾病,肝脏受损,大量饮酒
和外院不规范使用抗生素及假冒中药加重肝脏损伤和感染难以控制,既往可能有胆道蛔
虫病史
药物性肝损用上保肝药物后肝酶会降得很快,但是自身免疫性只用保肝不会降那么快,
患者的氢化泼尼松20mg Qd,量远远不足冲击量,如果单纯是自身免疫性疾病不太相符。
当地流行恙虫,患者有虫咬史,臀部有焦痂
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
46
腹泻在发热前一天出现,一过性,当时没做stool test,来我们医院后的stool test正常
没有关节肿胀疼痛,没有胸痛,皮肤黏膜没有皮疹、出血点、瘀斑,颈部有潮红,扁桃
体及咽后壁有深溃疡和假膜,颊黏膜等地方没有溃疡,生殖器也没有疱疹
患者提供的病史说他以前经常扁桃体化脓伴发热十几年,这是在基层医院的诊断,没有
血培养,一年发病3——6次, 打了抗生素或者自己服用抗生素后3天左右就可以完全好
转, 下面使用抗生素一般都不规范,患者说的既往史只能供参考,必需分析,为什么
会出现他所说的扁桃体化脓,抗生素有效说明存在细菌感染可能,但不能排除免疫缺陷。
发病前两天在德宏(恙虫疫区)住宾馆用浴巾后感觉臀部似乎被虫子咬了一口,当时感
觉很痒(恙虫一般不会痒),抓破后至今仍有一个干痂未愈合,所以恙虫感染并不排除
,外斐氏反应送疾控中心,结果要一周才出,现在肝功能一塌糊涂,不敢用四环素,氯
霉素等。只是单纯用恙虫病不好解释患者一开始就出现咽喉剧烈疼痛和大面积脓膜及溃
疡。
家族中没有遗传病史和特殊病史,没有免疫缺陷病史。
患者做开挖机工作,除了“扁桃体经常化脓”,平时“身体很好”。经常喝酒,量都比
较大。
虽然疾病诊断最好能万宗归一,但是个人觉得这个患者有以下几个特点:
1.经常喝酒,肝基础可能不好,发病前大量酗酒一次,两天后用过头孢哌酮,头孢曲松
,头孢美唑,甲硝唑,阿奇霉素等十余种抗生素和中药,酒精加药物性肝损,当时是否
有双硫仑样反应(不过患者没有 眼结膜充血、视觉模糊、头痛、头晕,恶心、呕吐、
出汗、口干、胸痛、心肌梗塞、急性心衰、呼吸困难等。)?
2.既往”扁桃体经常化脓”,经常“口腔溃疡”,是否有免疫性疾病?扁桃体是否寄生
致病菌?
3.恙虫感染可能(之前专家否定了,因为他说恙虫感染扁桃体不会出现溃疡假膜改变)
,但是虫咬病史+疫区+臀部焦痂,个人认为实在是不能完全排除。
几个问题都有,单纯套哪一种疾病都不好解释。肝损可能是多因素的。也许几种疾病重
叠了。

like

【在 y******a 的大作中提到】
: A few questions based on the history you provided:
: How long did his GI symptoms last? Any stool tests done?
: Besides the fever, abdominal pain, swollen tonsils, any other symptoms like
: joint swelling, joint pain, rashes, chest pain, oral ulcers, etc..?
: Did he have similar episodes in the past? Why you say he has frequent
: tonsilitis and oral ulcers? was it bacterial tonsilitis, or cultures were
: always negative? How frequent his oral ulcer is? any recurrent fever in
: the past (you say he sometimes takes antiboitics himself, is it because of
: fever? )
: Any family history, similar episodes (except the liver issue)?

a*******n
发帖数: 40
47
我知道有一个需换肝的肝癌病人,因为体内病毒指标太高,医生不能给他做手术,他每
天喝美安公司的芦荟汁一瓶,一个多月后把病毒控制好,成功地换了肝,芦荟汁的排毒
功能可见一斑,不知道你们有了解吗?
t*********m
发帖数: 360
48
真是一锅粥。看在病人年轻的分上放他一马,少折腾。看看进程。他的情况听起来还不
错,在好转,有机会。
倾向于病毒感染,病源性肝损。
t*********m
发帖数: 360
49
医源性肝损。 呵呵,一不小心就是笔误。
A*******s
发帖数: 9638
50
sepsis shock可以引起低免疫蛋白血症吧? 有个study说如果高免疫蛋白反而死亡率高。
我在想,可不可以试一下IVIG?

【在 m****g 的大作中提到】
: 如何解释抗体水平低下? IgG,IgM,IgA, IgE 全低?患者难道有先天免疫缺陷?
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医疗实践中的安全问题求助:5岁小孩高烧10天
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b******a
发帖数: 704
51
看了有点混乱,肯定不是医生写的。 要这么写病史和进展,肯定被上头的医生和会诊
医生骂死了。
y******a
发帖数: 590
52
I am not convinced that he has immune deficiency. Based on all your posts,
he has not had any positive cultures anywhere. Hypogammaglobulinemia can be
caused by reduced hepatic synthesis, like in patients with cirrhosis. I am
not impressed by hypocomplementia either, for the same reason.
Go back to his history, he has had recurrent fevers for years. Has he ever
had any episode that he did use antibiotics and fever resolved by itself in
a few days? Do his fever episodes follow any patterns? like recur every 4-
8 weeks, last certain number of days? Has he ever had any blood work done
during fever? like CBC, chemistry panel, ESR, CRP?
You mentioned that he has positive ANA, how high is it? and what's the
pattern? how about ENA?
Not all fevers are caused by infection. Autoimmune diseases can cause fever
, and there is a new category of diseases called autoinflammatory disease (
like FMF, traps, hyper-IgD syndrome, etc. )can also cause fever.

正常
陷。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 腹泻在发热前一天出现,一过性,当时没做stool test,来我们医院后的stool test正常
: 没有关节肿胀疼痛,没有胸痛,皮肤黏膜没有皮疹、出血点、瘀斑,颈部有潮红,扁桃
: 体及咽后壁有深溃疡和假膜,颊黏膜等地方没有溃疡,生殖器也没有疱疹
: 患者提供的病史说他以前经常扁桃体化脓伴发热十几年,这是在基层医院的诊断,没有
: 血培养,一年发病3——6次, 打了抗生素或者自己服用抗生素后3天左右就可以完全好
: 转, 下面使用抗生素一般都不规范,患者说的既往史只能供参考,必需分析,为什么
: 会出现他所说的扁桃体化脓,抗生素有效说明存在细菌感染可能,但不能排除免疫缺陷。
: 发病前两天在德宏(恙虫疫区)住宾馆用浴巾后感觉臀部似乎被虫子咬了一口,当时感
: 觉很痒(恙虫一般不会痒),抓破后至今仍有一个干痂未愈合,所以恙虫感染并不排除
: ,外斐氏反应送疾控中心,结果要一周才出,现在肝功能一塌糊涂,不敢用四环素,氯

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
53
I believe what LZ meant is frequent tonsillitis with fever. These patients
need tonsilectomy in my opinion. I doubt he has a primary autoimmune disease.

ever
in
4-

【在 y******a 的大作中提到】
: I am not convinced that he has immune deficiency. Based on all your posts,
: he has not had any positive cultures anywhere. Hypogammaglobulinemia can be
: caused by reduced hepatic synthesis, like in patients with cirrhosis. I am
: not impressed by hypocomplementia either, for the same reason.
: Go back to his history, he has had recurrent fevers for years. Has he ever
: had any episode that he did use antibiotics and fever resolved by itself in
: a few days? Do his fever episodes follow any patterns? like recur every 4-
: 8 weeks, last certain number of days? Has he ever had any blood work done
: during fever? like CBC, chemistry panel, ESR, CRP?
: You mentioned that he has positive ANA, how high is it? and what's the

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
54
这个病人胆红素,肝酶都下降很多了,一般状况也好很多,三天没发热了

disease.

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: I believe what LZ meant is frequent tonsillitis with fever. These patients
: need tonsilectomy in my opinion. I doubt he has a primary autoimmune disease.
:
: ever
: in
: 4-

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
55
他的ast从7000多降到了400多,alt从9000多降到了1200多,总胆红素也降到60多了
A*******s
发帖数: 9638
56
Thanks for updating, great to hear the good news.
回过头来看, 我可能是对的, terry也是对的, lol

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 这个病人胆红素,肝酶都下降很多了,一般状况也好很多,三天没发热了
:
: disease.

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
57
告诉病人, 我建议等康复后, 找机会把扁桃体切了。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 这个病人胆红素,肝酶都下降很多了,一般状况也好很多,三天没发热了
:
: disease.

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
58
主治医生也是这么说的。谢谢

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 告诉病人, 我建议等康复后, 找机会把扁桃体切了。
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
59
他除了喝芦荟汁以外还有其他治疗吗

【在 a*******n 的大作中提到】
: 我知道有一个需换肝的肝癌病人,因为体内病毒指标太高,医生不能给他做手术,他每
: 天喝美安公司的芦荟汁一瓶,一个多月后把病毒控制好,成功地换了肝,芦荟汁的排毒
: 功能可见一斑,不知道你们有了解吗?

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
60
主治大夫综合各方面因素,得出以下结论:
单纯疱疹病毒(HSV)性暴发型肝炎
一般而言,如果同时发生下述3种情况,应考虑HSV性暴发型肝炎的可能:
(1)高热。
(2)血白细胞明显下降。
(3)血清转氨酶水平明显升高而黄疸不明显。另外,发生暴发型肝炎而没有黄疸;
HAV、HBV、HCV、HEV、HGV血清学指标阴性而一般情况又迅速恶化也应警惕HSV性肝炎的
可能。
引自
FarrRWetal.1997.ClinInfectDis,24:1191~1194
KaufmanBetal.1997.ClinInfectDis,24:334~338
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A*******s
发帖数: 9638
61
It is sad.

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 主治大夫综合各方面因素,得出以下结论:
: 单纯疱疹病毒(HSV)性暴发型肝炎
: 一般而言,如果同时发生下述3种情况,应考虑HSV性暴发型肝炎的可能:
: (1)高热。
: (2)血白细胞明显下降。
: (3)血清转氨酶水平明显升高而黄疸不明显。另外,发生暴发型肝炎而没有黄疸;
: HAV、HBV、HCV、HEV、HGV血清学指标阴性而一般情况又迅速恶化也应警惕HSV性肝炎的
: 可能。
: 引自
: FarrRWetal.1997.ClinInfectDis,24:1191~1194

t*********m
发帖数: 360
62
A++, people is talking about you are "leaving". I don't worry about it at
all. Where could you go? Your nest is here!
Still, this case is full of speculations, and wrong concepts. this is NOT
the medicine that I learned here.
This might be a good example from which we can see how the western medicine
and Chinese western medicine approach a patient differently, and how to
reduce the suffering of this poor young man from care providers.

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: It is sad.
t*********m
发帖数: 360
63
this is an honest report. we feel confused, probably because we come from
different training systems.

【在 b******a 的大作中提到】
: 看了有点混乱,肯定不是医生写的。 要这么写病史和进展,肯定被上头的医生和会诊
: 医生骂死了。

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
64
自从病人于9月10日转入最后这所医院(省级最好的医院)以后,对他的治疗基本没有
失误,也没有耽误时间。他开始去的基层医院和中医,基本没有帮助,耽误了时间,而
且加重了病情。是这么回事吧?
我不是医生,不是很懂这个病例。

medicine

【在 t*********m 的大作中提到】
: A++, people is talking about you are "leaving". I don't worry about it at
: all. Where could you go? Your nest is here!
: Still, this case is full of speculations, and wrong concepts. this is NOT
: the medicine that I learned here.
: This might be a good example from which we can see how the western medicine
: and Chinese western medicine approach a patient differently, and how to
: reduce the suffering of this poor young man from care providers.

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
65
国内医院治疗病人的时候,还需要考虑花费。所以不会一开始就做所有可能相关的化验
,而是从最可能的诊断开始确认或排除。有些化验省级最好的医院也做不了。这个病例
的主治医生是耳鼻喉科的年轻医生,国内很好的医学院本科和硕士毕业后工作了四年。
表现还是不错的吧?

medicine

【在 t*********m 的大作中提到】
: A++, people is talking about you are "leaving". I don't worry about it at
: all. Where could you go? Your nest is here!
: Still, this case is full of speculations, and wrong concepts. this is NOT
: the medicine that I learned here.
: This might be a good example from which we can see how the western medicine
: and Chinese western medicine approach a patient differently, and how to
: reduce the suffering of this poor young man from care providers.

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
66
哈哈, 看来我走投无路了。

medicine

【在 t*********m 的大作中提到】
: A++, people is talking about you are "leaving". I don't worry about it at
: all. Where could you go? Your nest is here!
: Still, this case is full of speculations, and wrong concepts. this is NOT
: the medicine that I learned here.
: This might be a good example from which we can see how the western medicine
: and Chinese western medicine approach a patient differently, and how to
: reduce the suffering of this poor young man from care providers.

b******a
发帖数: 704
67
很有意思的一个病例。请问一下,主治大夫如何得到单纯疱疹病毒这个结论? 有什么
检查发现吗? 涂片,PCR,抗体或病毒培养?
感觉有点跳跃太快。病毒肝炎可能都可以有下面的表现。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 主治大夫综合各方面因素,得出以下结论:
: 单纯疱疹病毒(HSV)性暴发型肝炎
: 一般而言,如果同时发生下述3种情况,应考虑HSV性暴发型肝炎的可能:
: (1)高热。
: (2)血白细胞明显下降。
: (3)血清转氨酶水平明显升高而黄疸不明显。另外,发生暴发型肝炎而没有黄疸;
: HAV、HBV、HCV、HEV、HGV血清学指标阴性而一般情况又迅速恶化也应警惕HSV性肝炎的
: 可能。
: 引自
: FarrRWetal.1997.ClinInfectDis,24:1191~1194

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
68
从有限的病史看, 这个病复杂化了是因为肝功能异常。
板上钉钉的是化脓性扁桃体炎/咽炎, 病毒性肝炎会不会并发? 当然可能, 可是得有
证据, 不是套症状就诊断HSV hepatitis。
用一个疾病来诊断是一个原则, 按照这个原则,化脓性扁桃体炎/咽炎是原发病,肝炎
,药物热是并发症, 源于不恰当的治疗。
我和Terry都说了, 这个病人如果痊愈, 在于他的年龄和体质, 而不是走马灯的换药
和激素。 主治医生最后结论是病毒也否定了他们自己的用药。
停药后肝就保住了, 药物都在肝解毒,不用药肝的负担就减少了。 保肝三联恐怕只做
坏事不做好事。
一句话, 医学是科学,诊断治疗要有证据和依据, 不是想当然。 疑难病不知道就是
不知道,西医治不了请中医我也没有异议, 关键是中医要按中医的做法。 如果这个病
中医要上保肝治疗就是不伦不类了, 因为中医的肝跟西医的肝根本不是一个概念。


【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 自从病人于9月10日转入最后这所医院(省级最好的医院)以后,对他的治疗基本没有
: 失误,也没有耽误时间。他开始去的基层医院和中医,基本没有帮助,耽误了时间,而
: 且加重了病情。是这么回事吧?
: 我不是医生,不是很懂这个病例。
:
: medicine

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
69
both HSV DNA and HSV Ab are very high

【在 b******a 的大作中提到】
: 很有意思的一个病例。请问一下,主治大夫如何得到单纯疱疹病毒这个结论? 有什么
: 检查发现吗? 涂片,PCR,抗体或病毒培养?
: 感觉有点跳跃太快。病毒肝炎可能都可以有下面的表现。

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
70
both HSV DNA and HSV Ab are very high

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 从有限的病史看, 这个病复杂化了是因为肝功能异常。
: 板上钉钉的是化脓性扁桃体炎/咽炎, 病毒性肝炎会不会并发? 当然可能, 可是得有
: 证据, 不是套症状就诊断HSV hepatitis。
: 用一个疾病来诊断是一个原则, 按照这个原则,化脓性扁桃体炎/咽炎是原发病,肝炎
: ,药物热是并发症, 源于不恰当的治疗。
: 我和Terry都说了, 这个病人如果痊愈, 在于他的年龄和体质, 而不是走马灯的换药
: 和激素。 主治医生最后结论是病毒也否定了他们自己的用药。
: 停药后肝就保住了, 药物都在肝解毒,不用药肝的负担就减少了。 保肝三联恐怕只做
: 坏事不做好事。
: 一句话, 医学是科学,诊断治疗要有证据和依据, 不是想当然。 疑难病不知道就是

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l*****9
发帖数: 9501
71
没有停药

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 从有限的病史看, 这个病复杂化了是因为肝功能异常。
: 板上钉钉的是化脓性扁桃体炎/咽炎, 病毒性肝炎会不会并发? 当然可能, 可是得有
: 证据, 不是套症状就诊断HSV hepatitis。
: 用一个疾病来诊断是一个原则, 按照这个原则,化脓性扁桃体炎/咽炎是原发病,肝炎
: ,药物热是并发症, 源于不恰当的治疗。
: 我和Terry都说了, 这个病人如果痊愈, 在于他的年龄和体质, 而不是走马灯的换药
: 和激素。 主治医生最后结论是病毒也否定了他们自己的用药。
: 停药后肝就保住了, 药物都在肝解毒,不用药肝的负担就减少了。 保肝三联恐怕只做
: 坏事不做好事。
: 一句话, 医学是科学,诊断治疗要有证据和依据, 不是想当然。 疑难病不知道就是

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
72
I don't know that. If HSV PCR is positive, this is a good evidence to
support HSV infection.
So did the patient get the treatment for HSV? I doubt he would improve
without an antiviral treatment.

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: both HSV DNA and HSV Ab are very high
a*******n
发帖数: 40
73

我不是医生, 但是是听医生说的,所以我只能告诉你这些,如果需要的话,我帮你联
系一下那个医生,
我个人觉得帮助他排毒是当务之急,而芦荟汁绝对是最好的排毒天然产品,而且给身体
最需要的营养和氨基酸,我是听说日本原子弹后,只有芦荟活下来了,所以在日本芦荟
是大家都喜欢的植物。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 他除了喝芦荟汁以外还有其他治疗吗
b******a
发帖数: 704
74
谢谢。学习了。根据前面医生的发言,马后炮的想想,从现有病史来看,这个年轻的病
人的主诉是
什么?咽喉剧痛伴发热及上腹部疼痛。发病之前有大量饮酒,腹泻+腹痛病史。 体检和
初步实验室检查明确表明:假膜化脓性扁桃体炎+颈部淋巴结肿大(颈前?颈后淋巴结
?)和急性肝功能损害(非胆道阻塞)表现。
首先考虑是否是单一病变导致。然后考虑是否是由分别的病因导致。就如同你所说,从
常见病到少见病,有简单便宜的实验室检查到复杂,昂贵的或侵入性的检查。
如果是单一病变,有什么病和病原体能够导致如此的临床表现?印象中,能够导致假膜
坏事性化脓性扁桃体&咽炎的70%是病毒 (大都是EBV, CMV,HSV 等),20% 左右是GAS
链球菌感染。以及其他细菌感染。
首先要排除最常见的GAS链球菌感染,化脓性咽炎,因为只有像GAS类细菌感染,抗生素
才有效或有价值。链球菌感染也容易导致咽喉旁,后脓肿以及其他后期并发症,好像不
包括咳嗽,肺炎。链球菌快速检测能够帮助诊断或排除。血培养,咽喉拭子培养可以做
,可以指导抗生素选择,但没有那么快。也不一定阳性。在国内,好像不上抗生素都不
敢啊。
好像能够同时导致化脓性扁桃体咽炎和腹部肝脾症状,淋巴结肿大,常常是病毒感染,
最多见的是EBV,少见的CMV和HSV等。血细胞数和分化,血涂片,病毒分离培养,PCR和
抗体检测,同时排除病毒肝炎A-E。 腹部B超应该也不很贵 (看到现在,我也没看到病
人有没有肝脾肿大?有无脓肿之类?如果有,应该会提)。好像IM 里50% EBV感染病人
也没有脾脏肿大的吧

如果是病毒导致的,在如此晚期,病人生命症状平稳,除了观察支持疗法,也没有什么
好治疗的。有些病毒是自限性的吧。象EBV,HSV这些病毒都是可以长期潜伏的体内的,
免疫能力弱的时候,比如大量饮酒后,可以爆发,引起溃疡,炎症,甚至如此暴发。
其他病毒HIV能够表现咽喉炎,淋巴结肿大,但我好像不清楚会不会同时造成肝脏损伤
?前面医生所提的继发性的HLH,病人发热,感染,淋巴结肿大,肝脏损害,也是可以
解释症状的,需要排除的。好像也没有提及常见的有关铁,Ferritin的实验检测。
如果都没有阳性发现的话,才考虑是否是少见的疾病,比如肠道上行感染的寄生虫,或
非感染因素(自身免疫,肿瘤)造成。
我没有搞清楚的是,这里治疗中骨髓穿刺的指症是什么?全血细胞减少? 不典型性细
胞? HLH?如果担心淋巴结肿大,有无做淋巴结穿刺或切除病理检查?
如果不能由单一病变解释,是否有分别的简单的病因。化脓性扁桃体炎和巧合的酒精+
病毒+药物或无名毒素所致的急性肝功能损害。
从楼主的第一楼里,鉴别诊断好像是想的太多了,跨度很大。不符合“国内医院治疗病
人的时候,还需要考虑花费。所以不会一开始就做所有可能相关的化验,而是从最可能
的诊断开始确认或排除。”的原则, LOL。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: both HSV DNA and HSV Ab are very high
A*******s
发帖数: 9638
75
你这个intern水平是不是有点太高了?写得很好啊。
扁桃体和咽炎的最常见原因应该是病毒,这个没错, 但是腺病毒之类的, CMV, HSV
, EBV相对少见。 这个病能想到HSV很不错, 应该是个zebra, 但如果想到了并且同
时使用acyclovir更是完美了。 我治疗过HSV encephalitis, 出血很厉害, 这个病人
如果做了CT, 不知道能不能看到坏死和出血?
不能想象没有治疗能够痊愈的HSV hepatitis。
A nice case。

GAS

【在 b******a 的大作中提到】
: 谢谢。学习了。根据前面医生的发言,马后炮的想想,从现有病史来看,这个年轻的病
: 人的主诉是
: 什么?咽喉剧痛伴发热及上腹部疼痛。发病之前有大量饮酒,腹泻+腹痛病史。 体检和
: 初步实验室检查明确表明:假膜化脓性扁桃体炎+颈部淋巴结肿大(颈前?颈后淋巴结
: ?)和急性肝功能损害(非胆道阻塞)表现。
: 首先考虑是否是单一病变导致。然后考虑是否是由分别的病因导致。就如同你所说,从
: 常见病到少见病,有简单便宜的实验室检查到复杂,昂贵的或侵入性的检查。
: 如果是单一病变,有什么病和病原体能够导致如此的临床表现?印象中,能够导致假膜
: 坏事性化脓性扁桃体&咽炎的70%是病毒 (大都是EBV, CMV,HSV 等),20% 左右是GAS
: 链球菌感染。以及其他细菌感染。

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
76
ferritin的结果一开始就给了,肝脾有肿大 (具体的B超磁共振结果文件太大,可以
email)。
颈前淋巴结肿大最大也就1.5cm左右。骨髓穿刺是由血液科会诊后认为要排除血液疾病
后进行的,因为这些检查差不多都要等3-5天才出结果,所以就同时进行了。患者来自
疫区,有蚊虫叮咬,有焦痂,所以会考虑恙虫,HSV肝炎有史以来在我们科还是第一次
碰到,确实不太熟悉。

GAS

【在 b******a 的大作中提到】
: 谢谢。学习了。根据前面医生的发言,马后炮的想想,从现有病史来看,这个年轻的病
: 人的主诉是
: 什么?咽喉剧痛伴发热及上腹部疼痛。发病之前有大量饮酒,腹泻+腹痛病史。 体检和
: 初步实验室检查明确表明:假膜化脓性扁桃体炎+颈部淋巴结肿大(颈前?颈后淋巴结
: ?)和急性肝功能损害(非胆道阻塞)表现。
: 首先考虑是否是单一病变导致。然后考虑是否是由分别的病因导致。就如同你所说,从
: 常见病到少见病,有简单便宜的实验室检查到复杂,昂贵的或侵入性的检查。
: 如果是单一病变,有什么病和病原体能够导致如此的临床表现?印象中,能够导致假膜
: 坏事性化脓性扁桃体&咽炎的70%是病毒 (大都是EBV, CMV,HSV 等),20% 左右是GAS
: 链球菌感染。以及其他细菌感染。

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
77
CT没有坏死

HSV

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 你这个intern水平是不是有点太高了?写得很好啊。
: 扁桃体和咽炎的最常见原因应该是病毒,这个没错, 但是腺病毒之类的, CMV, HSV
: , EBV相对少见。 这个病能想到HSV很不错, 应该是个zebra, 但如果想到了并且同
: 时使用acyclovir更是完美了。 我治疗过HSV encephalitis, 出血很厉害, 这个病人
: 如果做了CT, 不知道能不能看到坏死和出血?
: 不能想象没有治疗能够痊愈的HSV hepatitis。
: A nice case。
:
: GAS

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
78
纤维蛋白原降解产物和D二聚体一直非常高,more than 300ug/ml, any suggestions?

HSV

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 你这个intern水平是不是有点太高了?写得很好啊。
: 扁桃体和咽炎的最常见原因应该是病毒,这个没错, 但是腺病毒之类的, CMV, HSV
: , EBV相对少见。 这个病能想到HSV很不错, 应该是个zebra, 但如果想到了并且同
: 时使用acyclovir更是完美了。 我治疗过HSV encephalitis, 出血很厉害, 这个病人
: 如果做了CT, 不知道能不能看到坏死和出血?
: 不能想象没有治疗能够痊愈的HSV hepatitis。
: A nice case。
:
: GAS

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
79
I think they ordered it because of DIC. Make sure he is not developping
DVT since he has been bedridden.

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 纤维蛋白原降解产物和D二聚体一直非常高,more than 300ug/ml, any suggestions?
:
: HSV

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
80
How can I make sure whether he is developing DVT or not? DSA? MRA?Is there
any other better method? He has never been bedridden absolutely.

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: I think they ordered it because of DIC. Make sure he is not developping
: DVT since he has been bedridden.

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【有奖竞猜】什么病让他这么看我?新科研 病毒HSV 杀癌细胞
进入Medicalpractice版参与讨论
m****g
发帖数: 42
81
只想再提一下病人的抗体低下,应进一步检查,很可能先有免疫低下,才有hsv
hepatitis. 一个健康的年轻人得hsv hepatitis 的可能性是很低的。抗体是B细胞生产
的,并不是前面有人说的有肝脏合成的(那人要是医生,请改一下这种信口开河的坏习
惯,要不明确,google一下很容易的)。肝问题和感染都不能解释抗体低下。实际上上
述两种情况,更多见的是抗体水平的升高。
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
82
他的一般状况良好,饮食正常,没有卧床不起,每天都给他做下肢按摩,因为考虑到可
能有DIC所以一直用低分子肝素和前列腺素E1,但是目前没有发现DIC的征象,没有发现
血栓,肝功能好的非常快,AST已经降到285U/L了,总胆红素也只有50mmol/l了,但是D
二聚体依然很高。

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: I think they ordered it because of DIC. Make sure he is not developping
: DVT since he has been bedridden.

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
83
Then just ignore it, D-dimer is non-specific.

是D

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 他的一般状况良好,饮食正常,没有卧床不起,每天都给他做下肢按摩,因为考虑到可
: 能有DIC所以一直用低分子肝素和前列腺素E1,但是目前没有发现DIC的征象,没有发现
: 血栓,肝功能好的非常快,AST已经降到285U/L了,总胆红素也只有50mmol/l了,但是D
: 二聚体依然很高。

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
84
Doppler.

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: How can I make sure whether he is developing DVT or not? DSA? MRA?Is there
: any other better method? He has never been bedridden absolutely.

b******a
发帖数: 704
85
D-dimer is non-specfic, but sensitive with a good NPV for PE. a D-dimer
level <500 ng/mL is sufficient to exclude PE in patients with a LOW or
MODERATE pretest probability of PE. But a positive D-dimer doesn't mean
anything. In this case, severe liver disease (decreased clearance) and
infection/inflammation could cause the abnormal elevation of D-dimer.
Disorders associated with increased plasma levels of fibrin D-dimer:
Arterial thromboembolic disease (Myocardial infarction ,Stroke , Acute limb
ischemia ,Atrial fibrillation, Intracardiac thrombus)
Venous thromboembolic disease (Deep vein thrombosis, Pulmonary embolism)
DIC
Normal pregnancy, Preeclampsia and eclampsia
Surgery/trauma (eg, tissue ischemia, necrosis)
Severe infection/sepsis/inflammation
SIRS
Severe liver disease (decreased clearance)
Malignancy
Renal disease
Nephrotic syndrome (eg, renal vein thrombosis)
Acute renal failure
Chronic renal failure and underlying cardiovascular disease
Abnormal fibrinolysis; use of thrombolytic agents
CHF
b******a
发帖数: 704
86
事后诸葛亮,抄书也是抄,过奖了。查了一下,咽炎的最常见原因病毒influenza,
parainfluenza, coronavirus, rhinovirus, adenovirus, enterovirus, 然后EBV,HSV
,CMV等。好在PCR和抗体容易测,真是不能偷懒哪。同时引起口腔溃疡,化脓性扁桃体
炎,淋巴结,肝脾肿大的病毒并不多。
在国内,都是先听专家的吧。 同时,在国内做医生不容易。思路可以是简单的,但实
际上面对病人,家属,上级医生和会诊医生的指令,不一定会敢坚持自己的判断。鉴于
病人的腹部症状,应该请消化肝病专家会诊,不仅仅是感染科会诊。
在美国都是医学生,下级医生先汇报,说出自己的思路,判断和相应的方法。用点高级
的抗生素,都要感染科批准。 要是多做了不恰当的CT,就被放射科主任讨论会上骂。
从繁到简单,是个信心和经验的积累过程。 路漫漫啊。

HSV

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 你这个intern水平是不是有点太高了?写得很好啊。
: 扁桃体和咽炎的最常见原因应该是病毒,这个没错, 但是腺病毒之类的, CMV, HSV
: , EBV相对少见。 这个病能想到HSV很不错, 应该是个zebra, 但如果想到了并且同
: 时使用acyclovir更是完美了。 我治疗过HSV encephalitis, 出血很厉害, 这个病人
: 如果做了CT, 不知道能不能看到坏死和出血?
: 不能想象没有治疗能够痊愈的HSV hepatitis。
: A nice case。
:
: GAS

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
87
HSV-IgM, HSV-IgG, HSV-DNA都是阳性,诊断考虑:HSV感染暴发性肝炎
臀部的皮疹一开始看着不像恙虫,现在看越来越像是疱疹感染的散在的皮疹。
回顾病史都解释得通了:臀部疱疹感染(患者住宾馆)两天→高热,咽喉扁桃体溃疡→
外院抗生素治疗无效→肝功能极度受损(酒精和药物都加重了肝损伤),白细胞下降→
激素保肝治疗有效→病情迅速好转
单纯疱疹病毒(HSV)性暴发型肝炎
一般而言,如果同时发生下述3种情况,应考虑 HSV性暴发型肝炎的可能: (1)高热。
(2)血白细胞明显下降。 (3)血清转氨酶水平明显升高而黄疸不明显。另 外,发生暴发
型肝炎而没有黄疸;HAV、HBV、 HCV、HEV、HGV血清学指标阴性而一般情况又迅 速恶
化也应警惕HSV性肝炎的可能。 引自 FarrRWetal.1997.ClinInfectDis,24:1191
~1194 KaufmanBetal.1997.ClinInfectDis,24: 334~338
b******a
发帖数: 704
88
谢谢这个很少见的病例。 可以考虑多总结一下。 另外象前面医生建议的那样随访一下
病人的免疫功能,尤其是细胞免疫。http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9856697
我还想问两个问题.
1) 臀部的皮疹在那个部位?以往有无STD,或类似的皮疹?
2) 激素保肝治疗有效? 激素能否用在病毒性肝炎的治疗中? 我不是很清楚,呵呵。



【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: HSV-IgM, HSV-IgG, HSV-DNA都是阳性,诊断考虑:HSV感染暴发性肝炎
: 臀部的皮疹一开始看着不像恙虫,现在看越来越像是疱疹感染的散在的皮疹。
: 回顾病史都解释得通了:臀部疱疹感染(患者住宾馆)两天→高热,咽喉扁桃体溃疡→
: 外院抗生素治疗无效→肝功能极度受损(酒精和药物都加重了肝损伤),白细胞下降→
: 激素保肝治疗有效→病情迅速好转
: 单纯疱疹病毒(HSV)性暴发型肝炎
: 一般而言,如果同时发生下述3种情况,应考虑 HSV性暴发型肝炎的可能: (1)高热。
: (2)血白细胞明显下降。 (3)血清转氨酶水平明显升高而黄疸不明显。另 外,发生暴发
: 型肝炎而没有黄疸;HAV、HBV、 HCV、HEV、HGV血清学指标阴性而一般情况又迅 速恶
: 化也应警惕HSV性肝炎的可能。 引自 FarrRWetal.1997.ClinInfectDis,24:1191

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
89
皮疹在右坐骨结节附近,保肝四联加激素冲击,肝功能好转很快,ast从9000降到100,
alt从7000降到400,总胆从90降到30,病人主观症状也好转,激素起多大作用不好说。
激素短期使用减轻炎症反应可以,病毒性肝炎激素不是治疗原则里,但是考虑到患者可
能是HSV感染后,释放了某种免疫原,诱发了自免反应,患者抗核抗体1:1000,自免肝
的一个非特意性指标也是阳性。

【在 b******a 的大作中提到】
: 谢谢这个很少见的病例。 可以考虑多总结一下。 另外象前面医生建议的那样随访一下
: 病人的免疫功能,尤其是细胞免疫。http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9856697
: 我还想问两个问题.
: 1) 臀部的皮疹在那个部位?以往有无STD,或类似的皮疹?
: 2) 激素保肝治疗有效? 激素能否用在病毒性肝炎的治疗中? 我不是很清楚,呵呵。
:
: 。

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
90
这个病例未必是HSV hepatitis, 以下是我的疑问:
1. 这个病人未经治疗居然就奇迹般的好了, 根据文献,hsv hepatitis都非常凶险,
没有治疗怎么可能好转? 激素是暂时性的, 保肝四联在这里没人会买账的。
2. 皮疹是shingle吗? 一般的医生看一下皮疹就知道, shingle可是巨疼, 诊断很容
易,不需要事后才往上套症状, 所以我打赌不是带状疱疹。
3. 咽炎是HSV吗, 那可是疼的要命的, 我没看出来这个咽炎是HSV。
4. 这个病人先得化脓性咽炎,没好又再得HSV hepatitis, 这不是不可能,但我觉得
实在太别扭了。
4. 唯一支持HSV感染的是HSV抗原和抗体, 可这个发现是原发的还是继发的? HSV
hepatitis唯一可靠的诊断是liver biopsy, 可惜他们没有。 看看这个:
http://medicine.ucsf.edu/education/resed/Chiefs_cover_sheets/HS
人家只字未提HSV免疫学诊断。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 皮疹在右坐骨结节附近,保肝四联加激素冲击,肝功能好转很快,ast从9000降到100,
: alt从7000降到400,总胆从90降到30,病人主观症状也好转,激素起多大作用不好说。
: 激素短期使用减轻炎症反应可以,病毒性肝炎激素不是治疗原则里,但是考虑到患者可
: 能是HSV感染后,释放了某种免疫原,诱发了自免反应,患者抗核抗体1:1000,自免肝
: 的一个非特意性指标也是阳性。

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进入Medicalpractice版参与讨论
l*****9
发帖数: 9501
91
你的分析非常好。但是有几点我要纠正一下:1.不是未经治疗,而是积极治疗用四联保
肝(门冬安酸鸟氨酸、复方甘草酸苷、还原型谷胱甘肽、腺苷蛋氨酸),丙求,血浆,
白蛋白,糖皮质激素加各种对症支持治疗,四联保肝用上一般退黄降酶降血氨肝功能好
的非常快!2.据我查文献所知,HSV暴肝确实非常凶险,但是,病毒感染本没有特效药
(不像抗生素对细菌那样),文献上说HSV感染也具有自限性的特点。请注意病毒感染
性疾病的特点:具有自限性。3.你所说的未经治疗是指的未经acyclovir治疗吧?当年
SARS出现的时候,在没有找到病原体之前,一部分患者也没有经过SARS的特效药“达菲
”治疗,只是积极的激素加对症支持治疗也治愈了。流感病毒感染也是很好的例子,早
期可以用抗病毒治疗,但是后期没有抗病毒治疗(后期没必要抗病毒)只是对症支持治
疗也不是没有治愈的。注意病毒感染性疾病的特点。我认为这个病例的发展和转归大概
是这样:病毒入血——释放毒素和免疫原(嗜肝)——诱发严重的自身免疫反应+病毒
本身破坏力——肝功能极度受损——积极的保肝激素治疗+病毒自限性(某些病毒感染
为什么会有自限性我就不多说了,丙球加血浆是有帮助的)——肝功能急速好转。这种
来得快去得也快的特点符合病毒感染的特点。
PCR测HSV的DNA拷贝量1250(按我们实验室标准值,这个拷贝量很大了),注意血清中
出现某种病原的IgM和IgG分别在时间上的意义,肝活检是诊断金指标,但是反过来诊断
学并不是说没有金指标我们就不能诊断这个疾病,更何况我们有HSV现症感染的依据。
您对该疾病的关注和讨论让我们一起共同学习和提高,非常感谢。不知道您的临床经历
是怎样的呢?我毕业之后从事耳鼻喉科工作4年,专科干得越久对于其他科别的疾病也
就越生疏,这是一次很好的复习和再学习。
确实不是带状疱疹,是单纯疱疹。看看单纯疱疹的特点吧。

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 这个病例未必是HSV hepatitis, 以下是我的疑问:
: 1. 这个病人未经治疗居然就奇迹般的好了, 根据文献,hsv hepatitis都非常凶险,
: 没有治疗怎么可能好转? 激素是暂时性的, 保肝四联在这里没人会买账的。
: 2. 皮疹是shingle吗? 一般的医生看一下皮疹就知道, shingle可是巨疼, 诊断很容
: 易,不需要事后才往上套症状, 所以我打赌不是带状疱疹。
: 3. 咽炎是HSV吗, 那可是疼的要命的, 我没看出来这个咽炎是HSV。
: 4. 这个病人先得化脓性咽炎,没好又再得HSV hepatitis, 这不是不可能,但我觉得
: 实在太别扭了。
: 4. 唯一支持HSV感染的是HSV抗原和抗体, 可这个发现是原发的还是继发的? HSV
: hepatitis唯一可靠的诊断是liver biopsy, 可惜他们没有。 看看这个:

b******a
发帖数: 704
92
Another intersting case
A Window of Opportunity
Sandra J. Bliss, M.D., Richard H. Moseley, M.D., John Del Valle, M.D., and
Sanjay Saint, M.D., M.P.H.
N Engl J Med 2003; 349:1848-1853 November 6, 2003
--Just in case you don't have access to NEJM:
The diagnosis of herpetic hepatitis was made ante mortem in fewer than 25
percent of published cases.6,8 The definitive diagnosis of HSV hepatitis is
based on liver biopsy, which shows parenchymal necrosis, characteristic
viral inclusions, and nuclear changes. HSV may also be identified by a
polymerase-chain-reaction assay and culture of blood and mucocutaneous
lesions, when such lesions are present. In immunocompromised patients, HSV
hepatitis may occur as part of a reactivated infection, but in
immunocompetent patients, the infection is usually primary.5 Since tests for
IgM antibody against HSV may be negative in patients with reactivated
infection and early primary infection, serologic findings may be used to
support the diagnosis but cannot be used to exclude it. In the absence of
mucocutaneous lesions, liver biopsy, performed expeditiously, is most likely
to lead to the diagnosis. Although the discussant emphasized the role of
liver biopsy early in the course of illness, in reality the need for liver
biopsy was not recognized before severe coagulopathy precluded this approach.
Without antiviral therapy, the mortality rate from fulminant herpetic
hepatitis exceeds 80 percent.10 Uncontrolled, retrospective studies report
survival rates between 62 and 80 percent with the use of acyclovir therapy.5
,10,12,13 Among patients who received acyclovir, factors associated with
survival included lower initial aminotransferase levels and pregnancy.13
Earlier diagnosis, facilitated by a thorough examination of mucocutaneous
tissues and testing of suspicious-appearing lesions as well as early use of
transjugular liver biopsy, may also increase the likelihood of survival.11
Given the likely benefit of early treatment, one could argue that empirical
therapy with acyclovir may have been warranted in this patient even in the
absence of a diagnosis.
In retrospect, the window of opportunity to diagnose and treat HSV infection
in this patient was narrow, and the diagnosis was not entertained until her
prognosis was extremely poor. Fulminant hepatitis from HSV infection should
be considered in patients who are pregnant or immunocompromised, if their
aminotransferase levels are markedly elevated in the absence of jaundice or
if their illness is accompanied by fever, mucocutaneous lesions, leukopenia,
or thrombocytopenia. Only then can appropriate diagnostic and therapeutic
interventions be implemented before the window of opportunity closes.

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 你的分析非常好。但是有几点我要纠正一下:1.不是未经治疗,而是积极治疗用四联保
: 肝(门冬安酸鸟氨酸、复方甘草酸苷、还原型谷胱甘肽、腺苷蛋氨酸),丙求,血浆,
: 白蛋白,糖皮质激素加各种对症支持治疗,四联保肝用上一般退黄降酶降血氨肝功能好
: 的非常快!2.据我查文献所知,HSV暴肝确实非常凶险,但是,病毒感染本没有特效药
: (不像抗生素对细菌那样),文献上说HSV感染也具有自限性的特点。请注意病毒感染
: 性疾病的特点:具有自限性。3.你所说的未经治疗是指的未经acyclovir治疗吧?当年
: SARS出现的时候,在没有找到病原体之前,一部分患者也没有经过SARS的特效药“达菲
: ”治疗,只是积极的激素加对症支持治疗也治愈了。流感病毒感染也是很好的例子,早
: 期可以用抗病毒治疗,但是后期没有抗病毒治疗(后期没必要抗病毒)只是对症支持治
: 疗也不是没有治愈的。注意病毒感染性疾病的特点。我认为这个病例的发展和转归大概

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
93
When mucocutaneous lesions are present, as in our patient, skin biopsy may
provide a definitive diagnosis. HSV DNA detection by polymerase chain
reaction is also highly specific. In the absence of skin findings, liver
biopsy may confirm the diagnosis, but is frequently impossible in the
setting of severe coagulopathy. HSV serum serologies are often insensitive,
even in advanced disease. Radiographic findings are nonspecific. HSV
infection should be suspected in any immunocompromised patient presenting
with fever, leukopenia, and elevated aminotransferases.

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 这个病例未必是HSV hepatitis, 以下是我的疑问:
: 1. 这个病人未经治疗居然就奇迹般的好了, 根据文献,hsv hepatitis都非常凶险,
: 没有治疗怎么可能好转? 激素是暂时性的, 保肝四联在这里没人会买账的。
: 2. 皮疹是shingle吗? 一般的医生看一下皮疹就知道, shingle可是巨疼, 诊断很容
: 易,不需要事后才往上套症状, 所以我打赌不是带状疱疹。
: 3. 咽炎是HSV吗, 那可是疼的要命的, 我没看出来这个咽炎是HSV。
: 4. 这个病人先得化脓性咽炎,没好又再得HSV hepatitis, 这不是不可能,但我觉得
: 实在太别扭了。
: 4. 唯一支持HSV感染的是HSV抗原和抗体, 可这个发现是原发的还是继发的? HSV
: hepatitis唯一可靠的诊断是liver biopsy, 可惜他们没有。 看看这个:

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
94
我提带状疱疹是因为你们在病史了提到皮疹, 对herpes来说,皮疹常见到是带状疱疹
, 单纯疱疹是口腔和生殖器。
回过头来看,这个病人可能就是口腔溃疡,HSV-1, 你们PCR结果是一型吗? 如果口腔
溃疡是HSV感染的一部分,口腔溃疡就是对HSV hepatitis的支持。

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 你的分析非常好。但是有几点我要纠正一下:1.不是未经治疗,而是积极治疗用四联保
: 肝(门冬安酸鸟氨酸、复方甘草酸苷、还原型谷胱甘肽、腺苷蛋氨酸),丙求,血浆,
: 白蛋白,糖皮质激素加各种对症支持治疗,四联保肝用上一般退黄降酶降血氨肝功能好
: 的非常快!2.据我查文献所知,HSV暴肝确实非常凶险,但是,病毒感染本没有特效药
: (不像抗生素对细菌那样),文献上说HSV感染也具有自限性的特点。请注意病毒感染
: 性疾病的特点:具有自限性。3.你所说的未经治疗是指的未经acyclovir治疗吧?当年
: SARS出现的时候,在没有找到病原体之前,一部分患者也没有经过SARS的特效药“达菲
: ”治疗,只是积极的激素加对症支持治疗也治愈了。流感病毒感染也是很好的例子,早
: 期可以用抗病毒治疗,但是后期没有抗病毒治疗(后期没必要抗病毒)只是对症支持治
: 疗也不是没有治愈的。注意病毒感染性疾病的特点。我认为这个病例的发展和转归大概

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
95
是1型,但是很可惜黏膜的biopsy没有做HSV的检测。如果有就更有证据了,当然现在病
人好转了,他不会同意再做liver biopsy了。

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 我提带状疱疹是因为你们在病史了提到皮疹, 对herpes来说,皮疹常见到是带状疱疹
: , 单纯疱疹是口腔和生殖器。
: 回过头来看,这个病人可能就是口腔溃疡,HSV-1, 你们PCR结果是一型吗? 如果口腔
: 溃疡是HSV感染的一部分,口腔溃疡就是对HSV hepatitis的支持。

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
96
A good read, thanks.
< 20% survival rate without treatment, 这个保肝治疗可以替代acyclovir, 不可
思议啊。

is

【在 b******a 的大作中提到】
: Another intersting case
: A Window of Opportunity
: Sandra J. Bliss, M.D., Richard H. Moseley, M.D., John Del Valle, M.D., and
: Sanjay Saint, M.D., M.P.H.
: N Engl J Med 2003; 349:1848-1853 November 6, 2003
: --Just in case you don't have access to NEJM:
: The diagnosis of herpetic hepatitis was made ante mortem in fewer than 25
: percent of published cases.6,8 The definitive diagnosis of HSV hepatitis is
: based on liver biopsy, which shows parenchymal necrosis, characteristic
: viral inclusions, and nuclear changes. HSV may also be identified by a

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
97
以外行的观点看:acyclovir没有保肝功用,病人当时肝功能衰竭,必须保肝,国内的
四联保肝还是很有效的。保住了肝,就保住了命,病人自身免疫可以抵抗HSV,这次HSV
爆发就过去了。在HSV爆发初期,及时服用acyclovir可以有效控制HSV,就不会进入HSV
爆发性肝炎阶段。从此后这个病人应该有这个意识。

【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: A good read, thanks.
: < 20% survival rate without treatment, 这个保肝治疗可以替代acyclovir, 不可
: 思议啊。
:
: is

A*******s
发帖数: 9638
98
我重新看了一下帖子, 这个病人有扁桃体和口腔溃疡, 这可以解释病人的PCR阳性,
当然可以作为HSV肝炎的证据, 但我的疑问是,这个病人得了HSV hepatitis多于2个星
期, 没有有效治疗而九死一生,要么是一个奇迹,要么就是误判。
另外说一下题外话, 最好的保肝是杀死病毒, 如果病毒不除,什么营养药剂都是空谈
。 我觉得国内的病历经常出现中医的说法,西医就是西医, 中西医结合无论对西医还
是中医都是灾难。

HSV
HSV

【在 l*****9 的大作中提到】
: 以外行的观点看:acyclovir没有保肝功用,病人当时肝功能衰竭,必须保肝,国内的
: 四联保肝还是很有效的。保住了肝,就保住了命,病人自身免疫可以抵抗HSV,这次HSV
: 爆发就过去了。在HSV爆发初期,及时服用acyclovir可以有效控制HSV,就不会进入HSV
: 爆发性肝炎阶段。从此后这个病人应该有这个意识。

l*****9
发帖数: 9501
99
许多病毒发作有一过性。杀灭病原和保护脏器都是正确的治疗手段



【在 A*******s 的大作中提到】
: 我重新看了一下帖子, 这个病人有扁桃体和口腔溃疡, 这可以解释病人的PCR阳性,
: 当然可以作为HSV肝炎的证据, 但我的疑问是,这个病人得了HSV hepatitis多于2个星
: 期, 没有有效治疗而九死一生,要么是一个奇迹,要么就是误判。
: 另外说一下题外话, 最好的保肝是杀死病毒, 如果病毒不除,什么营养药剂都是空谈
: 。 我觉得国内的病历经常出现中医的说法,西医就是西医, 中西医结合无论对西医还
: 是中医都是灾难。
:
: HSV
: HSV

b******a
发帖数: 704
100
Case 12-2013 — An 18-Year-Old Woman with Pulmonary Infiltrates and
Respiratory Failure
N Engl J Med 2013; 368:1537-1545
Presentation of Case
Dr. James Sawalla Guseh (Medicine): An 18-year-old woman was admitted to
this hospital because of pulmonary infiltrates and respiratory failure.
The patient had been well until 3 weeks before admission, when fever and a
cough productive of white, nonbloody sputum developed. During the next week,
night sweats, extremely painful pharyngitis, pleuritic chest pain,
increasing shortness of breath, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea occurred. She
self-administered doses from an inhaler obtained from a relative, with
transient improvement in dyspnea. Thirteen days before admission, she went
to the emergency department at another hospital. On examination, the
temperature was reportedly 39.4°C. Erythromycin and an albuterol inhaler
were prescribed, and she returned home.
Two days later, the patient went to a second hospital because of increasing
cough productive of thick white sputum, fever, vomiting, diarrhea, shortness
of breath, and anorexia. She reported chest pain that she rated at 10 on a
scale of 0 to 10, with 10 indicating the most severe pain. She had removed a
tick from her abdomen approximately 1 week earlier. On examination, she was
in mild respiratory distress. The blood pressure was 140/74 mm Hg, the
pulse 127 beats per minute, the temperature 37.3°C, the respiratory rate 20
breaths per minute, and the oxygen saturation 94% while she was breathing
ambient air. Her lips were dry, and coughing and scattered wheezing were
heard. There was mild tenderness at the costovertebral angles and in all
quadrants of the abdomen, without rebound; the rest of the examination was
reportedly normal. Within 3 hours after arrival, the temperature rose to 38.
9°C. Blood levels of lipase and amylase and results of tests of renal and
liver function were normal; other test results are shown in Table 1Table
1Laboratory Data.. Urinalysis revealed trace protein, leukocytes, and
bacteria and was otherwise normal.
Dr. Victorine V. Muse: A chest radiograph obtained at the second hospital
showed patchy opacities in the left middle and lower lung zones and in the
right lung base, a finding suggestive of pneumonia. The cardiomediastinal
silhouette was normal (Figure 1AFigure 1Chest Imaging.).
Dr. Guseh: The patient was admitted to the second hospital, and azithromycin
, ceftriaxone, doxycycline, levalbuterol, hydromorphone, and acetaminophen
were administered. Testing for serum antibodies to Borrelia burgdorferi,
Anaplasma phagocytophilum, and the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), as
well as for legionella urinary antigen, was negative; doxycycline was
stopped. During the first 4 days, respiratory distress worsened and fevers
persisted.
Dr. Muse: Computed tomography (CT) of the chest showed peribronchial
thickening, patchy alveolar consolidation with geographic ground-glass
opacities and air bronchograms, and adjacent small bilateral pleural
effusions (Figure 1B and 1C). A small pericardial effusion, a right
paratracheal lymph node that was 1.5 cm in diameter, and precarinal lymph
nodes were the only notable findings in the mediastinum. The visualized
portions of the upper abdomen were normal.
Dr. Guseh: Ceftriaxone was stopped; vancomycin, cefepime, trimethoprim–
sulfamethoxazole, and methylprednisolone were begun, and azithromycin was
continued. On the fifth day, dyspnea increased, and the trachea was
intubated in an emergency procedure. Test results are shown in Table 1.
Bronchoscopy revealed clear airways, without endobronchial lesions.
Bronchoalveolar aspirate from the right upper lobe was hypocellular, with a
few polymorphonuclear leukocytes, a few epithelial cells, and no organisms.
Testing for Pneumocystis jirovecii and mycobacteria was negative; specimen
quantity was limited, and viral studies could not be performed. Cultures of
the bronchial washing grew normal respiratory flora; fungal and
mycobacterial cultures were negative. A sputum specimen showed no
eosinophils. Cultures of the blood were sterile. Insulin, furosemide,
albuterol, and lorazepam were given. On the sixth day, all antibiotics
except azithromycin were stopped. Three days later, the patient was
extubated. Increasing dyspnea and tachypnea developed, and the trachea was
reintubated later that day.
The following day, a CT scan of the chest showed persistent patchy, dense
consolidation and air bronchograms, greater in the upper lobe of the left
lung than in the lower lobe. Transthoracic echocardiography revealed a left
ventricular ejection fraction of 65%, a mildly enlarged right ventricle, an
estimated right ventricular systolic pressure of 35 mm Hg, and a pericardial
effusion without evidence of tamponade. Test results are shown in Table 1.
Vancomycin and a combination of piperacillin and tazobactam were
administered, and azithromycin was stopped.
On the 11th hospital day, the patient was transferred to this hospital and
admitted to the medical intensive care unit while receiving mechanical
ventilation. Medications on transfer included vancomycin, piperacillin–
tazobactam, methylprednisolone, insulin, propofol, omeprazole, albuterol and
ipratropium by nebulizer inhalation, nicotine, nystatin suspension,
dalteparin, and miconazole powder.
The patient had had tonsillitis and hand surgery in the past. She had no
known allergies. She lived with her family and a cat and worked outdoors.
Her bedroom reportedly was damp and moldy. She had not traveled recently,
had a new boyfriend, and had no ill contacts. She smoked cigarettes and
marijuana. Relatives had asthma, hypertension, coronary artery disease,
chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and lung cancer.
On examination, the patient was sedated, intubated, and ventilated. She had
a crusted lesion on her lip. The blood pressure was 112/64 mm Hg, the pulse
65 beats per minute, the temperature 37.0°C, the mean arterial pressure 78
mm Hg, and the oxygen saturation 95% while she was breathing 60% oxygen,
with a positive end-expiratory pressure of 10 cm of water. Expiratory breath
sounds were louder in the right lung than in the left lung; other lung
sounds were obscured by ventilation. The first cardiac sound was normal, and
there was prominent physiologic splitting of the second cardiac sound, with
accentuation of the sound of pulmonic-valve closure. Pulsus paradoxus
measured 4 mm Hg. The neurologic examination was limited by sedation; the
remainder of the examination was normal. Blood levels of calcium, magnesium,
phosphorus, and angiotensin-converting enzyme were normal, as were the
results of renal-function tests; other test results are shown in Table 1.
Dr. Muse: A portable chest radiograph obtained on admission to this hospital
shows persistent but improved bilateral multifocal pneumonia (Figure 1D).
Dr. Guseh: Cefepime, vancomycin, nicotine, dalteparin, insulin, nystatin
suspension, fentanyl, and propofol were administered, and the last two were
gradually increased to enhance synchrony with the mechanical ventilator.
Four hours after admission, the blood pressure decreased to 86/44 mm Hg, and
the patient became diaphoretic; the administration of phenylephrine was
begun, with improvement.
Bronchoscopic examination revealed irritated mucosa in the airways of the
right lung, with inflammation. Examination of bronchoalveolar-lavage
aspirate from the right middle lobe and its lateral segment revealed
colorless fluid with slight turbidity, 321 nucleated cells (51% neutrophils,
18% lymphocytes, 16% monocytes, and 15% macrophage-lining cells), and a few
clumps of cells.
Diagnostic tests were performed.
Differential Diagnosis
Dr. Daniel P. Hunt: This patient is a young, presumably healthy woman who
had a respiratory illness that progressed over a period of 10 days to
respiratory failure. The illness appears to be consistent with bilateral
pneumonia. However, the apparent progression of the illness despite the use
of antibiotics raises the possibility of a diffuse, noninfectious pulmonary
process.
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b******a
发帖数: 704
101
b******a
发帖数: 704
102
b******a
发帖数: 704
103
Common Causes of Pneumonia
In a young patient without coexisting illnesses, there are many potential
infectious causes of pneumonia.1 The patient's history gives us several
clues that help in reducing the list of possible pathogens. This patient
underwent bronchoscopy and bronchoalveolar lavage. Negative bacterial
cultures argue against common, easy-to-culture bacterial pathogens.
Furthermore, the patient did not have a response to multiple, broad-spectrum
antibacterial therapy including erythromycin, azithromycin, ceftriaxone,
doxycycline, vancomycin, cefepime, trimethoprim–sulfamethoxazole, and
piperacillin–tazobactam. I would expect that infection with an atypical,
community-acquired pathogen such as legionella or mycoplasma would improve
with macrolide therapy and doxycycline. The negative test for legionella
urinary antigen also makes this diagnosis unlikely.
This patient was not known to be immunocompromised, and a negative HIV test
lowers the likelihood that she was infected with an opportunistic pathogen.
P. jirovecii, a common cause of pneumonia in patients with the acquired
immunodeficiency syndrome, is highly unlikely in this case because of the
negative HIV test and the absence of P. jirovecii in the bronchoalveolar-
lavage fluid. However, pneumocystis could be a possibility if this patient
had a transient depression in the CD4+ T-cell count, which is sometimes seen
in patients with acute HIV infection.2
Environmental Factors
By combining host characteristics with environmental influences and
exposures, we can produce a list of possible pathogens. In this case, the
host is a healthy young female smoker. Her exposures include a tick bite, a
moldy bedroom, a cat, outdoor work, marijuana, and a new boyfriend. The
moldy bedroom raises the possibility of a fungal infection, but this seems
unlikely. Cats have been associated with leptospiral pneumonia, toxoplasmic
pneumonia, infection with Pasteurella multocida (“cat cuddler's cough”),
and pneumonic plague. None of these seem likely, given the negative initial
bronchoscopic evaluation and cultures. Marijuana has been associated with
eosinophilic pneumonia,3 necrotizing pulmonary granuloma,4 and fungal
pneumonia,5 but this patient did not have eosinophils in the bronchoalveolar
-lavage fluid, no fungi were identified, and the illness seems inconsistent
with necrotizing granuloma. Perhaps the new boyfriend is a clue, so I will
keep him in mind as I consider other possibilities.
Tickborne Illnesses
How about the tick? Tickborne illnesses associated with pulmonary
complications include B. burgdorferi, Rickettsia rickettsii, Ehrlichia
chaffeensis, Babesia microti, and Francisella tularensis.6 Testing and
clinical findings seem to effectively rule out all tickborne pathogens in
this case except F. tularensis. Could this patient have pneumonic tularemia?
Pneumonic tularemia is unusual, with approximately 100 to 200 cases noted
per year.7 It occurs almost exclusively in the northern hemisphere, and
outbreaks have been reported on Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts.8 We do not
know from the case history whether this patient recently visited Martha's
Vineyard. The usual incubation period for tularemia is 3 to 5 days, with a
range of 1 to 21 days. The illness begins abruptly with fever, chills,
headache, malaise, anorexia, and fatigue, but the presentation may also
include cough, myalgias, chest discomfort, vomiting, sore throat, abdominal
pain, and diarrhea. This patient had many of these symptoms.
Are the radiographic findings consistent with pneumonic tularemia?
Multilobar or diffuse infiltrates occur in 30 to 74% of reported cases,
whereas effusions are present in 21 to 30% of cases, and hilar
lymphadenopathy in up to 45% of cases.7 It seems that the findings in this
patient are consistent with this disease, although we might expect more
lymphadenopathy with pneumonic tularemia than is seen on this patient's CT
scan. This patient received many antibiotics; however, only doxycycline
would be expected to have activity against tularemia, and this agent was
discontinued after fewer than 3 days of use. It would not be surprising for
tularemia to rapidly relapse in a patient who had short-term treatment with
a bacteriostatic agent.
Does pneumonic tularemia account for the other problems on our list? A
review of a 30-year experience with 88 cases of tularemia indicates that in
pneumonic tularemia, sputum examination is not helpful, white-cell counts on
admission range from 5000 to 22,000, elevation of the serum lactate
dehydrogenase level is common, pharyngitis may be mistaken for infectious
mononucleosis, and pericarditis may occur.9 Tularemia has been described as
“an enigmatic community-acquired pneumonia that does not respond to routine
therapies.”1 I believe an argument for pneumonic tularemia could be made
in this case. The illness is certainly enigmatic, and it did not respond to
routine therapies. I would be interested in performing serologic tests for F
. tularensis. I would also be tempted to add gentamicin or streptomycin to
the patient's antibiotic coverage, depending on her clinical status. However
, three things give me pause. First, the history suggests that the patient
was ill before the tick bite. Second, we have not ruled out viral causes of
pneumonia in a young, healthy patient. And third, the new boyfriend still
lurks.
The Boyfriend
What pathogens might a new boyfriend harbor? Epstein–Barr virus, herpes
simplex virus type 1 (HSV-1) or type 2 (HSV-2), chlamydia, gonorrhea,
syphilis, and HIV lead the list. Early in her illness, this patient had
severe pharyngitis. Organisms identified among college students with acute
pharyngitis include group A streptococcus, Epstein–Barr virus, influenza
virus, HSV, and mycoplasma.10 If we consider viruses that cause pharyngitis
and pneumonia, Epstein–Barr virus seems unlikely, since it only rarely
causes pneumonia in immunocompetent patients.11,12 HSV-1 is also an unusual
cause of pneumonia in immunocompetent patients, 13-15 but it is not unusual
to find this organism in patients who have received prolonged mechanical
ventilation.16 It may be difficult to determine whether the organism is the
primary cause of severe pneumonia in this case. If HSV is the culprit, can
we account for the last items on our list of problems? In a case of HSV
infection of the lower respiratory tract, a pericardial effusion is
described in an otherwise healthy 20-year-old woman who had prolonged and
severe HSV pneumonia.17 We do have a small amount of evidence to link the
pericardial effusion to HSV. Also, the crusted lesion on the lip may in fact
be a healing “fever blister” and the biggest clue in this case.
In summary, although I am unable to rule out pneumonic tularemia with
certainty, I believe this young, otherwise healthy patient has HSV pneumonia
that she may have acquired from a new boyfriend.
Dr. Eric S. Rosenberg (Pathology): Dr. Gelfand, what was your clinical
impression when you evaluated this patient?
Dr. Jeffrey A. Gelfand (Infectious Diseases): I was initially concerned
about streptococcal pneumonia and legionella, which were ruled out on the
basis of negative culture results, a negative test for legionella urinary
antigen, and a lack of clinical response to extensive antimicrobial therapy
targeting these pathogens. This young woman was a gardener and had a history
of tick and cat exposure, so I also considered pneumonic tularemia,
infection with P. multocida, and leptospirosis. Given the history of
marijuana use, aspergillus pneumonia was also a consideration. Regardless of
these possibilities, the patient appeared to have a viral pneumonia. When I
asked her about her new boyfriend, she mentioned that she had been told not
to date him because “he had something he could pass.” The crusted lesion
on the lip and the history of a boyfriend who might have herpes made HSV
pneumonia a likely diagnosis.
When I examined the patient, I noted something else: she had weakness in her
legs without a sensory defect. I became concerned about the development of
the Guillain–Barré syndrome, which could fit with pneumonia caused by an
influenza virus but, in my mind, could also fit with an HSV infection.
Varicella–zoster virus was also considered, because if the varicella were
atypical, the presentation could include both pneumonia and the Guillain–
Barré syndrome
Follow-up
Dr. Guseh: After the diagnosis was made, we instituted high-dose acyclovir
therapy. Within 48 hours after therapy was begun, the patient's condition
substantially improved and she was extubated and transferred to the general
medical service. She received a 2-week course of acyclovir. Once she was
able to ambulate, we noticed that a foot drop had developed, more pronounced
on the left side than on the right side. The neurology service was
consulted, and magnetic resonance imaging, electromyography, and lumbar
puncture were performed. The cerebrospinal fluid had a total protein level
of 224 mg per deciliter (normal, 5 to 55) and a few white cells, findings
consistent with the albuminocytologic dissociation (i.e., high levels of
protein in the cerebrospinal fluid and normal cell counts) that can be
associated with the Guillain–Barré syndrome. Acute inflammatory
demyelinating polyneuropathy (a variant of the Guillain–Barré syndrome)
was diagnosed, and the patient was immediately started on a 5-day course of
intravenous immune globulin. The results of the electromyographic study
later confirmed bilateral peroneal neuropathy.
The foot drop and foot weakness persisted but started to improve, and on
hospital day 12, the patient was discharged to a rehabilitation facility.
While she was at the rehabilitation hospital, her course was complicated by
a rise in the serum creatinine level, from 0.6 mg per deciliter (53 μmol
per liter) to 4.1 mg per deciliter (362 μmol per liter), which was thought
to be caused by acyclovir-related crystal nephropathy. After 4 days at the
rehabilitation hospital, her renal function returned to baseline; 8 days
later, she was discharged home. At a follow-up visit, her condition was
noted to be much improved. She still had some residual weakness in her left
leg, but she had not fallen and was able to go shopping at a mall. She was
still somewhat limited by shortness of breath, notably when she was climbing
one or two flights of stairs.
Dr. Rosenberg: Sometimes HSV is reactivated in ill patients. How do you know
whether this patient had primary HSV infection rather than reactivation?
Dr. Gelfand: It is possible that HSV was reactivated in the patient's
airways and that a diffuse tracheobronchitis developed. At the very least,
treatment was necessary to improve her pulmonary condition. However, I
suspect that she had primary HSV infection, because the cytologic appearance
of the alveolar cells convinced me that this was a primary pneumonia and
not tracheobronchitis. I think the proof was in her substantial improvement
within 48 hours after the initiation of acyclovir therapy.
Dr. Pitman: In addition, the bronchoalveolar-lavage specimen was not from a
brushing of the trachea or the airways; it was lavage fluid from the alveoli
. Also, the quality and the quantity of the infected cells are consistent
with an acute infection.
Anatomical Diagnosis
Herpes simplex virus type 1 pneumonia.
A*******s
发帖数: 9638
104
后知后觉,bythesea的post说明了为什么这个HSV pneumonia可以上NEJM, 而LZ的HSV
hepatitis绝不可能。 下面的对话就是对LZ这个贴的总结。
不知大家注意到没有,这篇HSV pneumonia诊断文章只字未提HSV IgM/IgG/PCR

Dr. Rosenberg: Sometimes HSV is reactivated in ill patients. How do you know
whether this patient had primary HSV infection rather than reactivation?
Dr. Gelfand: It is possible that HSV was reactivated in the patient's
airways and that a diffuse tracheobronchitis developed. At the very least,
treatment was necessary to improve her pulmonary condition. However, I
suspect that she had primary HSV infection, because the cytologic appearance
of the alveolar cells convinced me that this was a primary pneumonia and
not tracheobronchitis. I think the proof was in her substantial improvement
within 48 hours after the initiation of acyclovir therapy.

【在 b******a 的大作中提到】
: Common Causes of Pneumonia
: In a young patient without coexisting illnesses, there are many potential
: infectious causes of pneumonia.1 The patient's history gives us several
: clues that help in reducing the list of possible pathogens. This patient
: underwent bronchoscopy and bronchoalveolar lavage. Negative bacterial
: cultures argue against common, easy-to-culture bacterial pathogens.
: Furthermore, the patient did not have a response to multiple, broad-spectrum
: antibacterial therapy including erythromycin, azithromycin, ceftriaxone,
: doxycycline, vancomycin, cefepime, trimethoprim–sulfamethoxazole, and
: piperacillin–tazobactam. I would expect that infection with an atypical,

1 (共1页)
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