p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 1 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/opinion/david-brooks-i-am-not
I Am Not Charlie Hebdo
David Brooks
The journalists at Charlie Hebdo are now rightly being celebrated as martyrs
on behalf of freedom of expression, but let’s face it: If they had tried
to publish their satirical newspaper on any American university campus over
the last two decades it wouldn’t have lasted 30 seconds. Student and
faculty groups would have accused them of hate speech. The administration
would have cut financing and shut them down.
Public reaction to the attack in Paris has revealed that there are a lot of
people who are quick to lionize those who offend the views of Islamist
terrorists in France but who are a lot less tolerant toward those who offend
their own views at home.
Just look at all the people who have overreacted to campus micro-aggressions
. The University of Illinois fired a professor who taught the Roman Catholic
view on homosexuality. The University of Kansas suspended a professor for
writing a harsh tweet against the N.R.A. Vanderbilt University derecognized
a Christian group that insisted that it be led by Christians.
Americans may laud Charlie Hebdo for being brave enough to publish cartoons
ridiculing the Prophet Muhammad, but, if Ayaan Hirsi Ali is invited to
campus, there are often calls to deny her a podium.
Continue reading the main story
Related Coverage
So this might be a teachable moment. As we are mortified by the slaughter of
those writers and editors in Paris, it’s a good time to come up with a
less hypocritical approach to our own controversial figures, provocateurs
and satirists.
The first thing to say, I suppose, is that whatever you might have put on
your Facebook page yesterday, it is inaccurate for most of us to claim, Je
Suis Charlie Hebdo, or I Am Charlie Hebdo. Most of us don’t actually engage
in the sort of deliberately offensive humor that that newspaper specializes
in.
We might have started out that way. When you are 13, it seems daring and
provocative to “épater la bourgeoisie,” to stick a finger in the eye of
authority, to ridicule other people’s religious beliefs.
But after a while that seems puerile. Most of us move toward more
complicated views of reality and more forgiving views of others. (Ridicule
becomes less fun as you become more aware of your own frequent
ridiculousness.) Most of us do try to show a modicum of respect for people
of different creeds and faiths. We do try to open conversations with
listening rather than insult.
Yet, at the same time, most of us know that provocateurs and other
outlandish figures serve useful public roles. Satirists and ridiculers
expose our weakness and vanity when we are feeling proud. They puncture the
self-puffery of the successful. They level social inequality by bringing the
mighty low. When they are effective they help us address our foibles
communally, since laughter is one of the ultimate bonding experiences.
Moreover, provocateurs and ridiculers expose the stupidity of the
fundamentalists. Fundamentalists are people who take everything literally.
They are incapable of multiple viewpoints. They are incapable of seeing that
while their religion may be worthy of the deepest reverence, it is also
true that most religions are kind of weird. Satirists expose those who are
incapable of laughing at themselves and teach the rest of us that we
probably should.
In short, in thinking about provocateurs and insulters, we want to maintain
standards of civility and respect while at the same time allowing room for
those creative and challenging folks who are uninhibited by good manners and
taste.
Do you think being humorless qualifies you to sit at the adult table? And do
you think being humorless somehow indicates your grasp of...
If you try to pull off this delicate balance with law, speech codes and
banned speakers, you’ll end up with crude censorship and a strangled
conversation. It’s almost always wrong to try to suppress speech, erect
speech codes and disinvite speakers.
Fortunately, social manners are more malleable and supple than laws and
codes. Most societies have successfully maintained standards of civility and
respect while keeping open avenues for those who are funny, uncivil and
offensive.
In most societies, there’s the adults’ table and there’s the kids’ table
. The people who read Le Monde or the establishment organs are at the adults
’ table. The jesters, the holy fools and people like Ann Coulter and Bill
Maher are at the kids’ table. They’re not granted complete respectability,
but they are heard because in their unguided missile manner, they sometimes
say necessary things that no one else is saying.
Healthy societies, in other words, don’t suppress speech, but they do grant
different standing to different sorts of people. Wise and considerate
scholars are heard with high respect. Satirists are heard with bemused
semirespect. Racists and anti-Semites are heard through a filter of
opprobrium and disrespect. People who want to be heard attentively have to
earn it through their conduct.
The massacre at Charlie Hebdo should be an occasion to end speech codes. And
it should remind us to be legally tolerant toward offensive voices, even as
we are socially discriminating. |
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 2 美宣部政治还是正确，确实一般人没查理那么猛
martyrs
over
of
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/opinion/david-brooks-i-am-not
: I Am Not Charlie Hebdo
: David Brooks
: The journalists at Charlie Hebdo are now rightly being celebrated as martyrs
: on behalf of freedom of expression, but let’s face it: If they had tried
: to publish their satirical newspaper on any American university campus over
: the last two decades it wouldn’t have lasted 30 seconds. Student and
: faculty groups would have accused them of hate speech. The administration
: would have cut financing and shut them down.
: Public reaction to the attack in Paris has revealed that there are a lot of
|
s*******1
发帖数: 16479 | |
b****l
发帖数: 23606 | 4 这才是正确的态度。
行为上规范他，思想上弱化他，但人格上还得尊重他。
尼玛，这些法国佬，胡搞
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/opinion/david-brooks-i-am-not
: I Am Not Charlie Hebdo
: David Brooks
: The journalists at Charlie Hebdo are now rightly being celebrated as martyrs
: on behalf of freedom of expression, but let’s face it: If they had tried
: to publish their satirical newspaper on any American university campus over
: the last two decades it wouldn’t have lasted 30 seconds. Student and
: faculty groups would have accused them of hate speech. The administration
: would have cut financing and shut them down.
: Public reaction to the attack in Paris has revealed that there are a lot of
|
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 5 普世真理，新三八心有七七
【在 s*******1 的大作中提到】
: 为什么中宣部和美宣部口径一致？
|
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 6 幼稚，没有大棋思维
查理喜欢嘲笑的，除了木木，还有犹太
【在 b****l 的大作中提到】
: 这才是正确的态度。
: 行为上规范他，思想上弱化他，但人格上还得尊重他。
: 尼玛，这些法国佬，胡搞
|
b****l
发帖数: 23606 | 7 这个世界上只有中国和美国这两个是正常国家。别的，都是变态国家
【在 s*******1 的大作中提到】
: 为什么中宣部和美宣部口径一致？
|
b****l
发帖数: 23606 | 8 越弱势，越不能嘲笑。
你嘲笑奥巴马，习近平，英国女王，我尊重你的嘲笑。
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 幼稚，没有大棋思维
: 查理喜欢嘲笑的，除了木木，还有犹太
|
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 9 穆斯林不强，但也不是弱势
查理笑的大部分是强势，笑穆斯林也是穆斯林硬撑要当强势
【在 b****l 的大作中提到】
: 越弱势，越不能嘲笑。
: 你嘲笑奥巴马，习近平，英国女王，我尊重你的嘲笑。
|
b****l
发帖数: 23606 | 10 当然是弱势。你说老黑，墨墨在美国弱势吗？整天打人。可是文化和社会学
意义上，他们就是弱势群体。相反索男整天被人打，可是文化和社会学意义
上，索男就不是弱势。
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 穆斯林不强，但也不是弱势
: 查理笑的大部分是强势，笑穆斯林也是穆斯林硬撑要当强势
|
|
|
s*******1
发帖数: 16479 | 11 査理嘲笑了那么多人只有穆斯林受不了。穆斯林恐怖分子杀了那么多人他们自己的宗教
领袖和宗教团体根本沒有站出来号召全体教民与之决裂。一部视全体非穆斯林为敌的古
兰经依然是他们至高无上的典籍。所以查理有错的话，古兰经就更错了
[在 finite (螺旋) 的大作中提到：]
：穆斯林不强，但也不是弱势
：
：........... |
b****l
发帖数: 23606 | 12 你骂白猪，白猪没有拿枪打你，你骂黄猴子，黄猴子也没拿枪打你，可是你骂
泥哥，泥哥给了你一枪。你去告泥哥，法庭判泥哥一个激情犯罪从轻发落。尼
哥给你一枪当然错，可不代表你骂泥哥就是对的。
【在 s*******1 的大作中提到】
: 査理嘲笑了那么多人只有穆斯林受不了。穆斯林恐怖分子杀了那么多人他们自己的宗教
: 领袖和宗教团体根本沒有站出来号召全体教民与之决裂。一部视全体非穆斯林为敌的古
: 兰经依然是他们至高无上的典籍。所以查理有错的话，古兰经就更错了
: [在 finite (螺旋) 的大作中提到：]
: ：穆斯林不强，但也不是弱势
: ：
: ：...........
|
s*******1
发帖数: 16479 | 13 错的程度不同
[在 bushel (失乐园) 的大作中提到：]
：你骂白猪，白猪没有拿枪打你，你骂黄猴子，黄猴子也没拿枪打你，可是你骂
：泥哥，泥哥给了你一枪。你去告泥哥，法庭判泥哥一个激情犯罪从轻发落。尼
：........... |
b***y
发帖数: 14281 | 14 靠，指示不及时，好几个老将已经说错话了，这下不好往回收了。
martyrs
over
of
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/opinion/david-brooks-i-am-not
: I Am Not Charlie Hebdo
: David Brooks
: The journalists at Charlie Hebdo are now rightly being celebrated as martyrs
: on behalf of freedom of expression, but let’s face it: If they had tried
: to publish their satirical newspaper on any American university campus over
: the last two decades it wouldn’t have lasted 30 seconds. Student and
: faculty groups would have accused them of hate speech. The administration
: would have cut financing and shut them down.
: Public reaction to the attack in Paris has revealed that there are a lot of
|
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 15 所以说尼哥跟人不一样
【在 b****l 的大作中提到】
: 你骂白猪，白猪没有拿枪打你，你骂黄猴子，黄猴子也没拿枪打你，可是你骂
: 泥哥，泥哥给了你一枪。你去告泥哥，法庭判泥哥一个激情犯罪从轻发落。尼
: 哥给你一枪当然错，可不代表你骂泥哥就是对的。
|
b********n
发帖数: 38600 | |
b****l
发帖数: 23606 | 17 你悲愤也没有用。消除种族歧视才是真正普世价值。
不信你试试看去骂泥哥，泥哥打你一枪还从轻发落，你哭都没地方哭
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 所以说尼哥跟人不一样
|
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 18 你还不是觉得尼哥不一样，又装逼
【在 b****l 的大作中提到】
: 你悲愤也没有用。消除种族歧视才是真正普世价值。
: 不信你试试看去骂泥哥，泥哥打你一枪还从轻发落，你哭都没地方哭
|
p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 19 美国人讲政治正确性，不搞那么极端的事。
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 你还不是觉得尼哥不一样，又装逼
|
t***h
发帖数: 2924 | 20 屁话。 穆斯林屠杀漫画社的时候有没有在人格上尊重这些人?
穆斯林和伊斯兰是人类文明世界的敌人， 当敌人不尊重人类， 人类何以要尊重
敌人？ 正是因为文明世界太尊重伊斯兰和穆斯林了， 才导致穆斯林们无法无天
在主权国家内部设立no go zone.
【在 b****l 的大作中提到】
: 这才是正确的态度。
: 行为上规范他，思想上弱化他，但人格上还得尊重他。
: 尼玛，这些法国佬，胡搞
|
|
|
p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 21 “穆斯林和伊斯兰是人类文明世界的敌人”，谁说的？美联社昨天还发文章说中国迫害
一位在美国之音做播音的维族人士在华家属呢。
【在 t***h 的大作中提到】
: 屁话。 穆斯林屠杀漫画社的时候有没有在人格上尊重这些人?
: 穆斯林和伊斯兰是人类文明世界的敌人， 当敌人不尊重人类， 人类何以要尊重
: 敌人？ 正是因为文明世界太尊重伊斯兰和穆斯林了， 才导致穆斯林们无法无天
: 在主权国家内部设立no go zone.
|
h********0
发帖数: 12056 | 22 深度广度才是关键。
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 幼稚，没有大棋思维
: 查理喜欢嘲笑的，除了木木，还有犹太
|
r********n
发帖数: 7441 | 23 你不看 South park 吧？
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 美宣部政治还是正确，确实一般人没查理那么猛
:
: martyrs
: over
: of
|
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 24 看过，经常嘲笑萨达姆，不过没看到露蛋蛋
【在 r********n 的大作中提到】
: 你不看 South park 吧？
|
b****l
发帖数: 23606 | 25 最有希望世俗化的几个伊斯兰政权都被欧美给颠覆了。
最极端的几个伊斯兰政权都是欧美的好朋友。
【在 t***h 的大作中提到】
: 屁话。 穆斯林屠杀漫画社的时候有没有在人格上尊重这些人?
: 穆斯林和伊斯兰是人类文明世界的敌人， 当敌人不尊重人类， 人类何以要尊重
: 敌人？ 正是因为文明世界太尊重伊斯兰和穆斯林了， 才导致穆斯林们无法无天
: 在主权国家内部设立no go zone.
|
w********g
发帖数: 3780 | 26 总结得妙！
【在 b****l 的大作中提到】
: 这才是正确的态度。
: 行为上规范他，思想上弱化他，但人格上还得尊重他。
: 尼玛，这些法国佬，胡搞
|
s**********d
发帖数: 36899 | 27 是人就知道他们不一样啊。可是你明知还在人家门外骂他祖宗的话，是不是脑残？
这些漫画家，明知穆斯林暴力，还骂人先知，被警告还说我宁肯死也不停嘴。
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 你还不是觉得尼哥不一样，又装逼
|
n*****8
发帖数: 19630 | |
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 29 貌似大家都只看了标题，没仔细看文章
这个文章是反思美帝政治正确虚伪，应该容许查理周刊这样的声音
martyrs
over
of
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/opinion/david-brooks-i-am-not
: I Am Not Charlie Hebdo
: David Brooks
: The journalists at Charlie Hebdo are now rightly being celebrated as martyrs
: on behalf of freedom of expression, but let’s face it: If they had tried
: to publish their satirical newspaper on any American university campus over
: the last two decades it wouldn’t have lasted 30 seconds. Student and
: faculty groups would have accused them of hate speech. The administration
: would have cut financing and shut them down.
: Public reaction to the attack in Paris has revealed that there are a lot of
|
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 30 你恢复错了
【在 n*****8 的大作中提到】
: 我对米国民主自由又恢复一点信心和尊重。
: :)
|
|
|
w****a
发帖数: 1623 | 31 赫赫，80年代的时候，穆斯林和伊斯兰是人类文明世界的代表美利坚的好友呢。到现在
反对中俄的穆斯林和伊斯兰还是美利坚和欧洲自由世界的好友呢。
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: “穆斯林和伊斯兰是人类文明世界的敌人”，谁说的？美联社昨天还发文章说中国迫害
: 一位在美国之音做播音的维族人士在华家属呢。
|
w****a
发帖数: 1623 | 32 fudementalists 都是文明世界的敌人，不管是穆斯林，基督徒，还是自由主义者。
martyrs
over
of
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/opinion/david-brooks-i-am-not
: I Am Not Charlie Hebdo
: David Brooks
: The journalists at Charlie Hebdo are now rightly being celebrated as martyrs
: on behalf of freedom of expression, but let’s face it: If they had tried
: to publish their satirical newspaper on any American university campus over
: the last two decades it wouldn’t have lasted 30 seconds. Student and
: faculty groups would have accused them of hate speech. The administration
: would have cut financing and shut them down.
: Public reaction to the attack in Paris has revealed that there are a lot of
|
l**k
发帖数: 45267 | 33 楼上说的不是80年代，而是现在
迫害
【在 w****a 的大作中提到】
: 赫赫，80年代的时候，穆斯林和伊斯兰是人类文明世界的代表美利坚的好友呢。到现在
: 反对中俄的穆斯林和伊斯兰还是美利坚和欧洲自由世界的好友呢。
|
h*h
发帖数: 27852 | 34 热
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 貌似大家都只看了标题，没仔细看文章
: 这个文章是反思美帝政治正确虚伪，应该容许查理周刊这样的声音
:
: martyrs
: over
: of
|
p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 35 纽约时报本身就拒绝刊载查理漫画。作者的主旨很明确，查理漫画是childish, NYT才
是负责任的成熟的媒体。
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 貌似大家都只看了标题，没仔细看文章
: 这个文章是反思美帝政治正确虚伪，应该容许查理周刊这样的声音
:
: martyrs
: over
: of
|
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 36 原来你是没看懂，才拿来误导大家
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: 纽约时报本身就拒绝刊载查理漫画。作者的主旨很明确，查理漫画是childish, NYT才
: 是负责任的成熟的媒体。
|
p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 37 没看懂的是你，文章都说了，媒体有两种，一种是adults table，一种是kids table。
Charlie就是坐在kids table,所以才会这种disrespectable and inappropriate漫画，
而纽约时报以及所有的主流媒体都是成年人，所以他们不会发表甚至仅仅是转载查理漫
画。这是一篇纽时的为自己辩护的观点文章，事实上所有的美国主流媒体都拒绝转载查
理漫画，唯一破例的一家是狐狸台的新闻网站，但是也很快就撤掉了而且保证以后不会
再刊载。
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 原来你是没看懂，才拿来误导大家
|
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 38 你还是没看懂，作者自己不认同查理周刊的方式，但是认为应该允许他们表达，因为童
言无忌，可能说出真理，就像说出皇帝没穿衣服的也是小孩
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: 没看懂的是你，文章都说了，媒体有两种，一种是adults table，一种是kids table。
: Charlie就是坐在kids table,所以才会这种disrespectable and inappropriate漫画，
: 而纽约时报以及所有的主流媒体都是成年人，所以他们不会发表甚至仅仅是转载查理漫
: 画。这是一篇纽时的为自己辩护的观点文章，事实上所有的美国主流媒体都拒绝转载查
: 理漫画，唯一破例的一家是狐狸台的新闻网站，但是也很快就撤掉了而且保证以后不会
: 再刊载。
|
b****l
发帖数: 23606 | 39 你没看懂。
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 你还是没看懂，作者自己不认同查理周刊的方式，但是认为应该允许他们表达，因为童
: 言无忌，可能说出真理，就像说出皇帝没穿衣服的也是小孩
|
f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 40 你也不行，最后结论很明确
And it should remind us to be legally tolerant toward offensive voices, even
as
we are socially discriminating.
【在 b****l 的大作中提到】
: 你没看懂。
|
|
|
r********n
发帖数: 7441 | 41 但看标题，分明是投降的节奏啊，潜台词是： don't shoot me
martyrs
over
of
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/opinion/david-brooks-i-am-not
: I Am Not Charlie Hebdo
: David Brooks
: The journalists at Charlie Hebdo are now rightly being celebrated as martyrs
: on behalf of freedom of expression, but let’s face it: If they had tried
: to publish their satirical newspaper on any American university campus over
: the last two decades it wouldn’t have lasted 30 seconds. Student and
: faculty groups would have accused them of hate speech. The administration
: would have cut financing and shut them down.
: Public reaction to the attack in Paris has revealed that there are a lot of
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w**********k
发帖数: 6250 | 42 bushel你太抬举索南了
bushel你是不是在暗中抬举自己。。。
【在 b****l 的大作中提到】
: 当然是弱势。你说老黑，墨墨在美国弱势吗？整天打人。可是文化和社会学
: 意义上，他们就是弱势群体。相反索男整天被人打，可是文化和社会学意义
: 上，索男就不是弱势。
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b****l
发帖数: 23606 | 43 索男的确不是弱势群体。社会有给你特殊照顾吗？没有，你还冒充弱势群体？
【在 w**********k 的大作中提到】
: bushel你太抬举索南了
: bushel你是不是在暗中抬举自己。。。
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w**********k
发帖数: 6250 | 44 全美国实验室的刷试管和杀老鼠业务基本都被索南垄断了，这个算不算特殊照顾？
【在 b****l 的大作中提到】
: 索男的确不是弱势群体。社会有给你特殊照顾吗？没有，你还冒充弱势群体？
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p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 45 你是体会不到美宣部的高明笔法。
美国人否定对方有两种方式，一种是You are wrong, I wouldn't do that.另一种是
What you are doing is fine, but I would do it differently.
NYT当然不会说查理画的不对，只是说我们是adults,so we do things differently.这
就是美宣部为自己不刊登查理漫画的辩护。
even
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 你也不行，最后结论很明确
: And it should remind us to be legally tolerant toward offensive voices, even
: as
: we are socially discriminating.
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f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 46 什么当然不会说，人说了查理offensive，格调不高
NYT也不需要辩护，这本来在美国就不能登
NYT说的就是放开言路，没说要NYT自己登
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: 你是体会不到美宣部的高明笔法。
: 美国人否定对方有两种方式，一种是You are wrong, I wouldn't do that.另一种是
: What you are doing is fine, but I would do it differently.
: NYT当然不会说查理画的不对，只是说我们是adults,so we do things differently.这
: 就是美宣部为自己不刊登查理漫画的辩护。
:
: even
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p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 47 为什么在美国不能登？法律禁止？
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 什么当然不会说，人说了查理offensive，格调不高
: NYT也不需要辩护，这本来在美国就不能登
: NYT说的就是放开言路，没说要NYT自己登
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f****e
发帖数: 24964 | 48 看文章呗
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: 为什么在美国不能登？法律禁止？
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p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 49 文章里面没有讲纽约时报不能刊登查理漫画，而是讲了为什么纽时不愿意刊登。
【在 f****e 的大作中提到】
: 看文章呗
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