n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 1 Apr 5, 13, 1:09 pm #1
jaytmoore
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SFO/SJC/MRY
Programs: AA EXP 792k SPG Gold Chase Private Client
Posts: 173
Chase closes INK Bold and takes more than 380,000 UR's
Balance as of March 26 2013
Previous Points Balance 36X,xxx
+ 1 point per $1 earned on all purchases 2X,xxx
+ Points for Ultimate Rewards Travel 0
+ Bonus points from Ultimate Rewards Mall 0
+ 4 pts per $1 intrnt, cable, phone, ofc sply st xxx
+ 1 point per $1 on hotels & gas stations xxx
- Points currently unavailable for redemption 38X,xxx
Without warning/notice Chase closed my INK Bold card and took all UR points
associated with it. I'm looking for feedback on whether anyone believes I
have any recourse outside of Chase? I've never had a rewards account closed
so I'm reaching out to more experienced folks for advice.
Here is the portion of the rules and regulations that they used to justify
this forfeiture of all UR's in my account.
"Ability to Earn and/or Redeem Rewards: If your Account is in default as
described in your Business Card Credit Agreement (“Agreement”), and/or
your Account is closed for any reason, and/or there is any fraud or abuse
related to the accrual of points, we reserve the right to prohibit you from
earning or redeeming points through your Account until the next billing
cycle after your Account is no longer in default, and to cause you to
forfeit any points in your Account. If your points are forfeited for any
reason, we will not reinstate
these points to your Account. If your Account is closed for any reason, your
membership in the Program will be terminated."
Some details on this situation
1. This INK Bold card has been in use since May 2012. There was no fraud or
manufactured spend this card. All purchases were regular business expenses.
Chase was happy to extend an initial $25k credit limit, raising it to $50k
within a few months.
2. I had transferred ~85k UR points from another INK card that I have for a
different business. They were being held in the INK account that was closed.
Those points were forfeited as well. This seems particularly unfair as the
business the card those points were earned on is still open and in good
standing.
3. Why was the account closed? It was a business/compliance decision,
although I never got official word. Chase notified me on 2/XX/13 they were
closing 3 of my business checking accounts and one JPM investment account.
The letter listed the accounts but no credit cards. Thus, it's my assumption
the card was cancelled for being associated with the same business Chase no
longer wants to align itself with after 8 years of providing banking
services (including Private Client) and JPM Private Investments.
4. The business itself that the INK card is associated with somewhat
irrelevant, but if it adds context to this story it's one of the early crowd
funding websites (one of many we operate) [moderator edit]. Yes, it's
controversial, but Chase had no problem working with us until now. I
understand Chase can decide to do business with whom ever they want and it's
within their rights to close my bank accounts if they want. These bank
account closures were more of an annoyance than anything else, considering
we've been with them for so long (8 years) and a move is a PITA. That said,
I accepted this decision and setup new banking accounts with a competitor.
It never dawned on me that my INK card would be cancelled too. This was a
great mistake on my part as I had some time to transfer points to UA, Hyatt,
etc.
5. 3/XX/13 my office manager went to make a purchase on the Ink Bold card
and it was declined. I called Chase and they said the account had been
closed. I was never informed of the closure although I was extended nearly
60 days of notice on the bank accounts. I feel there was no notice given
specifically to keep me from redeeming UR's. I assume there is financial
gain for them to confiscate UR's? Especially when they're probably closing
thousands of accounts each year, with millions of rewards going with them.
In any case, I leveraged the other businesses/deposits/investments I have
with Chase and went to the top of the ladder with Chase card services. There
final answer as of 4/1/13 is they will not be returning any UR's, even the
ones that were transferred in from an other businesses INK card, being held
in the closed account. If anyone feels I have any recourse in this situation
your suggestions are appreciated. Nearly 400,000 UR's is a lot to lose. | n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 2 Apr 5, 13, 1:59 pm #5
tassojunior
Chase just closed my accounts and confiscated 247,000 UR points too. The
same week your card was closed. After 20 years with them holding my mortgage
and many cards for several years, they did an investigative service on me
and decided to "terminate our relationship" (as far as credit cards). There
are services besides credit bureaus that compile personal information
including neighbor comments, etc. which financial firms can use when their
exposure to you reaches a certain level.
I've phoned and written all the way up and they are absolutely firm that
when your accounts are closed they do not give zip for your Ultimate Rewards
. Posts and bloggers' columns saying that they do otherwise are wrong.
On 4 cards Chase had just gotten the $95 annual fees and doesn't even refund
that.
I filed with the CFPB, but that just gets you an extra call from Chase
reaffirming their position.
Chase is certainly a unique culprit in this- When AmEx does a Financial
Review you get 2 weeks to move your MR points. When Citi closes TYP accounts
, you get 30 days to move TYP's.
I picked up papers today to do a small claims court action. Whether it's the
intent or not, Chase is making a lot of money with these confiscations. | l******t
发帖数: 12659 | 3 wow...
mortgage
There
【在 n*******y 的大作中提到】
: Apr 5, 13, 1:59 pm #5
: tassojunior
:
: Chase just closed my accounts and confiscated 247,000 UR points too. The
: same week your card was closed. After 20 years with them holding my mortgage
: and many cards for several years, they did an investigative service on me
: and decided to "terminate our relationship" (as far as credit cards). There
: are services besides credit bureaus that compile personal information
: including neighbor comments, etc. which financial firms can use when their
: exposure to you reaches a certain level.
| n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | | g**n
发帖数: 25142 | | b******n
发帖数: 4225 | 6 还是大规模转点惹的祸（op的例子转了8万点）
看来chase非常痛恨私下买卖点数
【在 g**n 的大作中提到】
: INK也有关的了啊。。。
| h****t
发帖数: 230 | 7 好像不是吧。 从flyertalk上的讨论上看明显是因为checking account的连坐：OP曾经
多次用ATM给checking account存大量现金，然后迅速pay给信用卡，很明显的洗钱嫌疑
,checking account三月被关......
【在 b******n 的大作中提到】
: 还是大规模转点惹的祸（op的例子转了8万点）
: 看来chase非常痛恨私下买卖点数
| a*********0
发帖数: 4998 | 8 我很好奇他们为嘛屯那么多点数。。。
屯着好玩么。。。
【在 h****t 的大作中提到】
: 好像不是吧。 从flyertalk上的讨论上看明显是因为checking account的连坐：OP曾经
: 多次用ATM给checking account存大量现金，然后迅速pay给信用卡，很明显的洗钱嫌疑
: ,checking account三月被关......
| n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 9 Apr 11, 13, 1:02 pm #73
viperoc12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3
I used to work at chase for quite some time. I've seen this happen quite a
number of times. I worked in a branch as a banker and people would come in
with a letter saying that chase is going to close there accounts and there's
nothing they could do about it. We weren't allowed to tell the customer why
we had to close the account.
Most of the time they closed accounts of business owners because the back
office suspected there was some kind of money laundering going on. Or
sometimes other banks can report you through what they call a early warning
system (ews). We had a customer that had about 20 million in her accounts
that was very profitable for the branch but back office shut down the
accounts. We went all the way up to the regional manager and they still
couldn't do anything to help.
Apr 12, 13, 1:06 am #81
viperoc12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by businessmachine View Post
"Thank you for your input. The question is what activities raise suspicion
of money laundering? Is it cash deposits, Chase Quickpay payments, high
spend to income ratio. I don't understand why that can't just put rules out
there that people can adhere to."
Cash deposits, cashing checks all the time, making payments with cash all
the time, foreign wires, structuring cash deposits or withdrawals to not
trigger CTR (over 10,000 cash)
Chase wont close your bank accounts for finding ways to abuse points on your
credit card. Its strictly your bank account activity. Its a risk team that
handles it. Even as employees we have a tough time even getting a hold of
these people. Some departments of the back office cant even be reached by
phone, we had to write a letter requesting specific information and they
would either mail, email or call me.
After the patriot act was passed by the government, banks went a bit crazy I
guess I guess trying to see which customers are money laundering. | z******6
发帖数: 2638 | 10 那么比较好的快速消化现金方法是什么呢?
【在 h****t 的大作中提到】
: 好像不是吧。 从flyertalk上的讨论上看明显是因为checking account的连坐：OP曾经
: 多次用ATM给checking account存大量现金，然后迅速pay给信用卡，很明显的洗钱嫌疑
: ,checking account三月被关......
| | | b******n
发帖数: 4225 | 11 买房子……
【在 z******6 的大作中提到】
: 那么比较好的快速消化现金方法是什么呢?
| n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 12 每年上数万亿 中国成全球最大“脏钱”来源
http://www.creaders.net 2013-04-18 15:11:53 BBC [1条评论,查看/发表评论]
中国银行监管部门为了防止犯罪分子利用中国的银行洗钱以及欺诈性交易推出新举
措，对客户进行1到5的风险评级。
据路透社报道，犯罪团伙经过中国的银行每年洗钱的数量大约有上万亿美元。
一些专家甚至把中国称作世界上最大的“脏钱”来源地，中国也面临国际间的压力
整顿其银行系统，以及阻止向平壤转移现金等。
总部在美国华盛顿的全球金融诚信组织去年12月估计，2010年，全球非法洗钱资金
达8588亿美元，其中近一半是通过中国的银行进行洗钱的，比洗钱天堂马来西亚和墨西
哥还高出8倍还多。
而在过去的11年，犯罪分子通过中国的银行洗钱数量高达3.8万亿美元，这些钱的
来源包括腐败、逃税等基金。但全球金融诚信组织承认具体的数字很难得到核实。
中国人民银行在去年12月推出对用户风险评级的措施，试图防止国际洗钱现象。但
这一措施并没有公开宣布，尽管中国要求银行和保险公司必须要在2015年底前执行这一
新举措。
中国的金融机构现在必须要鉴别那些高风险的客户，并且要秘密上报令人可疑的金
钱交易。
具体来讲，金融机构需要根据客户的地理位置、商业情况、特点等以5分制来打分。
而过去的做法是，银行把客户的资料与他们的检查表想对照，寻找洗钱的可疑迹象
，但这样做的结果往往是金融机构得到太多的误导或是假信息，反而阻碍了调查。
比如，国际反洗钱金融行动特别工作组说，2012年，中国央行在两年内就收到来自
金融机构的800万份怀疑犯罪活动的报告。 国际反洗钱金融行动特别工作组的专家说，
这种情况被称作是“报复性报告”，即报告人不想负责任，因此把一切都上报。
专家认为，中国在采取这一风险评级制度后将越来越接近西方的体系，更趋向成熟。
但在西方，也经常有银行被指有洗钱现象而被重罚。比如最近，英国的汇丰银行由
于疏忽“帮助”墨西哥毒枭洗钱而被罚19亿美元。美国的渣打银行也由于被指隐藏向伊
朗的金钱交易而向金融监管机构缴纳3亿4000万美元的罚金。
国际反洗钱金融行动特别工作组表扬了中国在打击洗钱方面所采取的措施，但对中
国在冻结它所称的恐怖组织的资产以及遵守国际反恐怖组织资金协议方面感到担忧。
此外，国际反洗钱金融行动特别工作组说，中国惩治的洗钱罪犯的数量就更低，因
此招致不满，批评人士说中国所做的努力还远远不够。
中国也面临越来越大的压力，让其加大力度打击国际洗钱。与此同时，中国与朝鲜
的金融联系也引起广泛关注，尤其是上个月中国支持联合国对朝鲜进行金融金制裁之后。
根据联合国的协议，各国政府必须阻止向朝鲜转移资金，特别是该资金将用于朝鲜
的核项目以及弹道导弹的发射。
尽管中国称希望彻底贯彻对朝鲜的制裁，但是外交人员表示对朝鲜的制裁没有对伊
朗的制裁更有效，而这其中的主要原因就在中国，中国是朝鲜的唯一贸易伙伴和盟国。 | z******6
发帖数: 2638 | 13 现金买房子也是要从银行系统过的。
【在 b******n 的大作中提到】
: 买房子……
| t*******y
发帖数: 2570 | 14 RE
【在 h****t 的大作中提到】
: 好像不是吧。 从flyertalk上的讨论上看明显是因为checking account的连坐：OP曾经
: 多次用ATM给checking account存大量现金，然后迅速pay给信用卡，很明显的洗钱嫌疑
: ,checking account三月被关......
| C*******e
发帖数: 2163 | 15 我好奇还信用卡这点钱怎么够上洗钱的数量，
cc每个月额度才多少，而且都是真是买了东西的，可以追踪到的。。。
除非是大量屯香草的。。当我没说。。
【在 h****t 的大作中提到】
: 好像不是吧。 从flyertalk上的讨论上看明显是因为checking account的连坐：OP曾经
: 多次用ATM给checking account存大量现金，然后迅速pay给信用卡，很明显的洗钱嫌疑
: ,checking account三月被关......
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