u**********n
发帖数: 91 | 1 亲爱的朋友，
您一定还记得一个月以前，我们大家群起群力在48小时就筹集到1000多个对加州大学圣
地亚哥分校（UCSD）辱华网站事件的抗议签名。之前，mitbbs上各网友的积极参与和
UCSD学生会同学们在百忙之中抽时间组织的抗议示威活动也是功不可没。今天我们很高
兴地告诉大家，我们的工作终于换来了成果。经过80-20 Initiative的创建主席，前
德拉维州副州长，吴仙標(S.B. Woo)博士与UCSD长达一个多月的交涉和不懈努力，我们
得到了以下回应：
1）吴博士将我们的抗议信交给加大总校长Dr. Mark Yudof后，他很快回复并委派加大
圣地亚哥分校的常务副校长Dr. Suresh Subramani来负责处理这件事
2）Dr. Subramani邀请了三位UCSD德高望重的华裔教授，与Kubiak同系的诺贝尔奖得主
钱永健教授，生物工程系的钱煦教授，和医学系的王映真教授来参与学校反歧视部门（
Prevention of Harassment and Discrimination (OPHD）)就该事件展开的调查。
3）调查结果显示UCSD教授网站的确常由学生来维护，Kubiak对那个有辱华字眼的网页
实为不知。当Kubiak教授了解到我们对他的头一个道歉不满意后，他给作为华裔社团代
表的吴博士发了一封更诚挚的道歉信。教授们了解Kubiak教授的为人，并表明Kubiak以
前从未有任何种族歧视的言行举止。三位华裔教授们共同对调查的过程和结果表示了满
意。
4）Dr. Subramani和UCSD的其他副校长联名给全校发了一封公开信，严厉谴责了这个违
反学校公约的网页，他们表明将在学校的各系的会议上讨论这件事并加强全校师生对歧
视字眼的敏感度。学校还特别因为此事而增设了一个专门负责平等团结的副校长的职位
，以期给学校创造一个更平等公义的学习工作环境。
具体信件请参照：http://admin.80-20nj.info/cgi/80/e?w=no&l=/8/11p/f&w=no
在这件事上，我们对学校处理表示满意。和大家一起，我们不仅有理有力有节地维护了
华裔在加州大学的名誉，还赢得了一个朋友：Subramani副校长感谢大家在这件事上的
参与，并加入了80-20来和我们一道参与亚裔在美国的维权活动。
如果您愿意肯定我们在UCSD这件事上的工作，我恳请您考虑在下面两件事上切实地表示
您的支持:
a)加入80-20 促进会：http://www.80-20initiative.net/
吴仙標博士告诉我，在美国，我们亚裔是少数族裔，也是弱势群体。虽然我们亚裔在美
国普遍学位很高，工作很卖力，但不论是在公司，政府还是学术界的管理高层比例都大
大地低于其他少数族裔，所以他十三年前成立了80-20，希望大家能够向犹太人学习，
用团结的投票和其他少数族裔常用的一些参与方式来帮我们争取自己的合法权益。
可惜的是，我们亚裔常常不关心美国政治。虽然有30万的人定期收到80-20的
newsletter, 但只有2000位愿意付$35/个人或$50/家庭的年费成为会员，以实际行动来
支持80-20的为亚裔展开的维权活动。其实80-20大多数负责人都和吴博士一样不仅用大
量自己的时间免费做义工，还给80-20的正常运作出钱出力。虽然在UCSD这件事上我们
取得了比较妥善的结果，但是吴博士更希望我们亚裔作为一个群体，能够在美国学会用
美国人常见并行之有效的方式为自己谋福利。（Give a man a fish and you feed him
for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.）如果您是美
国的公民或永久居民*，并认同80-20在这件事上起到的关键性的作用，请去他们的网站
，更多地了解这个组织，并加入80-20的会员吧。【* 美国法律对促进会（Political
Action Committee）有严格定义】。
b)80-20还有一个非牟利性的教育机构80-20 Education Foundation （http://www.80-20educationalfoundation.org/）这个组织的目的是帮助更多亚裔参政议政，并学会用美国民主的各项举措来维护自己的权利。在UCSD事件发生之初，有许多朋友问怎么样给我们捐钱。我觉得这是给80-20教育资金会捐钱是除了加入80-20以外最好的一个平台。第一，您不必是美国公民或永久公民才能参加。第二，由于这是一个501（c）-3的组织，您的捐款能够免税。
欢迎您和我们一道携手为我们自己，更为我们出生在美国的儿女们, 来缔造一个更完美
的美利坚合众国！ Let us work together to make this nation a more perfect
Union！ | u**********n
发帖数: 91 | | u**********n
发帖数: 91 | 3 Kubiak教授的第二封道歉信：
From: "Kubiak, Clifford"
Date: July 1, 2011 9:40:15 AM EDT
To: "SB Woo"
Cc: "Subramani, Suresh"
Dear Dr. Woo,
In thinking over the events of the past month, there are a few points that I
wanted to clearly state. I strongly believe in equal opportunity, justice,
and dignity for all people of different ethnic origins. I grew up with
these beliefs, and I never abandoned them.
It is most regrettable that an unacceptable derogatory statement appeared in
the website of my laboratory. I sincerely apologize to the entire Chinese
community, which has my highest respect and in which I have many dear
friends, from many years of enjoyable associations.
I take full responsibility for this most unfortunate happening.
Sincerely,
Cliff Kubiak
Clifford P. Kubiak
Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry
University of California - San Diego
La Jolla, CA 92093-0358 | u**********n
发帖数: 91 | | u**********n
发帖数: 91 | 5 UCSD副校长给SB的信：
Dear Dr. Woo:
I want to thank you for your assistance over the last few weeks in helping
us to respond to the concerns raised by the UC San Diego Chinese-American
community. As you know, upon learning of the offensive webpage we took
immediate steps to remove it and to issue sincere apologies to our community
. Our Office for the Prevention of Harassment and Discrimination also
initiated an immediate review, the outcome of which has been communicated to
you by the faculty involved in the process. Your involvement, however,
sensitized us further to the gravity and urgency of the issue and your
advice led us to have broader conversations within the UC San Diego
community. Specifically, we have now issued a campus communication, signed
by all academic Vice Chancellors and our Vice Chancellor for Research
reminding everyone of the UC San Diego Principles of Community, and of their
responsibilities to create an environment that is respectful and free from
discrimination. A copy of that communication is attached. I have also
talked with our Academic Deans about these issues and asked them to discuss
with department chairs and I will raise the issue directly with the chairs
myself when next we meet.
Please be assured that UC San Diego values diversity, equity, and inclusion
as essential ingredients of academic excellence. In a community as large
and diverse as ours it is impossible to guarantee that there will never be
ugly incidents. However, when such incidents are brought to our attention,
we will confront them and respond appropriately. On a related note, I would
like to let you know that in support of this commitment the campus is
presently searching for a Vice Chancellor for Equity, Diversity & Inclusion
- a newly created position at UC San Diego which will report directly to me.
The new Vice Chancellor will be charged with assessing the effectiveness
of all diversity and outreach programs and services on campus, and will be
expected to lead UC San Diego to measurable improvements in organizational
climate and in the recruitment and retention of a diverse community.
Again, I thank you for your assistance in helping us to defuse this matter.
Best regards,
Suresh Subramani
Executive Vice Chancellor | g*******e
发帖数: 1706 | 6 Finally, after one month of investigation, I am so excited to see the fact
that the Chem Prof. didn't know the contents of the web page, and he is
sincerely sorry for the insensitive joke...
Hey ... sounds like the same results the univ. published back then?? | e******e
发帖数: 10121 | | g*******e
发帖数: 1706 | 8 我脑残,居然看完了第一帖!
【在 e******e 的大作中提到】
: 谁给个摘要： 这是说SB们签完字倒底赢没赢？
|
| w*****g
发帖数: 3922 | 9 虽然我不支持你们的活动，但你们为中国人群体的努力为我所敬佩。
但是，你能不能换个ID发帖子？
【在 u**********n 的大作中提到】
: 亲爱的朋友，
: 您一定还记得一个月以前，我们大家群起群力在48小时就筹集到1000多个对加州大学圣
: 地亚哥分校（UCSD）辱华网站事件的抗议签名。之前，mitbbs上各网友的积极参与和
: UCSD学生会同学们在百忙之中抽时间组织的抗议示威活动也是功不可没。今天我们很高
: 兴地告诉大家，我们的工作终于换来了成果。经过80-20 Initiative的创建主席，前
: 德拉维州副州长，吴仙標(S.B. Woo)博士与UCSD长达一个多月的交涉和不懈努力，我们
: 得到了以下回应：
: 1）吴博士将我们的抗议信交给加大总校长Dr. Mark Yudof后，他很快回复并委派加大
: 圣地亚哥分校的常务副校长Dr. Suresh Subramani来负责处理这件事
: 2）Dr. Subramani邀请了三位UCSD德高望重的华裔教授，与Kubiak同系的诺贝尔奖得主
| g*******e
发帖数: 1706 | 10 我更脑残,居然把后面两篇给看了. 三位华裔教授好像政协委员,拍拍手鼓鼓掌. 那篇公
开信,没有说哪个实验室,哪位教授负责的... 通篇文字新华社统发稿。 如果今天接受这样的结果，又何必当初气势汹汹？ 那个s.b. 博士的作用，除了请大家捐钱，又是什么呢？
【在 g*******e 的大作中提到】
: 我脑残,居然看完了第一帖!
| | | I*****y
发帖数: 6402 | 11 Is this all you guys wanted? I thought you wanted to have that chemistry
professor fired. Collecting more than 1,000 signatures is just for this
result that you already knew ? time not so well spent - IMHO.
【在 u**********n 的大作中提到】
: 亲爱的朋友，
: 您一定还记得一个月以前，我们大家群起群力在48小时就筹集到1000多个对加州大学圣
: 地亚哥分校（UCSD）辱华网站事件的抗议签名。之前，mitbbs上各网友的积极参与和
: UCSD学生会同学们在百忙之中抽时间组织的抗议示威活动也是功不可没。今天我们很高
: 兴地告诉大家，我们的工作终于换来了成果。经过80-20 Initiative的创建主席，前
: 德拉维州副州长，吴仙標(S.B. Woo)博士与UCSD长达一个多月的交涉和不懈努力，我们
: 得到了以下回应：
: 1）吴博士将我们的抗议信交给加大总校长Dr. Mark Yudof后，他很快回复并委派加大
: 圣地亚哥分校的常务副校长Dr. Suresh Subramani来负责处理这件事
: 2）Dr. Subramani邀请了三位UCSD德高望重的华裔教授，与Kubiak同系的诺贝尔奖得主
| S********t
发帖数: 18987 | 12 没有象黑人当年暴动的威慑力，
结果如此也已经算是可以了。
如果是黑人被歧视，学校就算冤枉该教授也要FIRE掉以避免麻烦 | s*********5
发帖数: 5637 | 13 我们的目的是提高这件事的认识。不能人家骂了你，打了你，你就悄悄走了。很明显，学校听到了我们的声音。以后相信同学们要公开开这种玩笑之前要想想了。这是我们要的。
Dr.Woo没有让大家捐钱。但是没有80-20，我们绝对到不了今天。这件事可能就不了了之了。学校现在给我们了个交代。三位华裔教授的信也很支持学校的调查，我们要求的公开信学校也发了，甚至还增设了一个副校长的位置。试问大家还想要什么？很可惜我们中国人常像一盘散沙，不支持80-20这样的组织，以后就更没地方说话了。 | g*******e
发帖数: 1706 | 14 I don't think so. As I pointed out, the letter to all staff doesn't have
any specific information. And there are no mentioning of specific steps to
take to prevent this from happening again, expect for referring to an
existing policy document.
I am glad you find peace in this meaningless fight.
【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】
: 我们的目的是提高这件事的认识。不能人家骂了你，打了你，你就悄悄走了。很明显，学校听到了我们的声音。以后相信同学们要公开开这种玩笑之前要想想了。这是我们要的。
: Dr.Woo没有让大家捐钱。但是没有80-20，我们绝对到不了今天。这件事可能就不了了之了。学校现在给我们了个交代。三位华裔教授的信也很支持学校的调查，我们要求的公开信学校也发了，甚至还增设了一个副校长的位置。试问大家还想要什么？很可惜我们中国人常像一盘散沙，不支持80-20这样的组织，以后就更没地方说话了。
| g*******e
发帖数: 1706 | 15 And please don't exaggerate this 80-20. Except the involvement of those 3
prof. I am not seeing the results published today is any materially
different from the original results, where no one was happy and hence got
the 80-20 involved.
Why all of the sudden everyone should be happy with the same results? A new
job being created that would help local economy??
Now let's take a look at what these 3 profs. said:
From their letter, they basically said: yeah we did what you asked us to do.
Here you go, and we are off the hook.
，学校听到了我们的声音。以后相信同学们要公开开这种玩笑之前要想想了。这是我们
要的。
了之了。学校现在给我们了个交代。三位华裔教授的信也很支持学校的调查，我们要求
的公开信学校也发了，甚至还增设了一个副校长的位置。试问大家还想要什么？很可惜
我们中国人常像一盘散沙，不支持80-20这样的组织，以后就更没地方说话了。
【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】
: 我们的目的是提高这件事的认识。不能人家骂了你，打了你，你就悄悄走了。很明显，学校听到了我们的声音。以后相信同学们要公开开这种玩笑之前要想想了。这是我们要的。
: Dr.Woo没有让大家捐钱。但是没有80-20，我们绝对到不了今天。这件事可能就不了了之了。学校现在给我们了个交代。三位华裔教授的信也很支持学校的调查，我们要求的公开信学校也发了，甚至还增设了一个副校长的位置。试问大家还想要什么？很可惜我们中国人常像一盘散沙，不支持80-20这样的组织，以后就更没地方说话了。
| s*********5
发帖数: 5637 | 16 世界上的事情很多是要give and take的。要不然怎么才能双赢呢？这件事整个谈判的
经过我是知道一些的。很多事情不像你想象的那么简单，上面每一条都是许多人努力的
结果。我们只有把自己的声音合在一起别人才能听到。
我对我们的所作所为问心无愧，更理解SB Woo走一步的艰辛。所以我要帮他的组织大声
呐喊一下。 | s*********5
发帖数: 5637 | 17 有机会你自己可以去问那些教授他们是不是觉得自己只不过是走个过场，是个傀儡。 | y****i
发帖数: 17878 | 18 I'm glad the investigation has a satisfactory result.
I'm happy the professor has been proven to be innocent, although he should
and had taken full responsibility for overlooking the contents on his
website.
I think UCSD has done a great job throughout this matter.
【在 u**********n 的大作中提到】
: 亲爱的朋友，
: 您一定还记得一个月以前，我们大家群起群力在48小时就筹集到1000多个对加州大学圣
: 地亚哥分校（UCSD）辱华网站事件的抗议签名。之前，mitbbs上各网友的积极参与和
: UCSD学生会同学们在百忙之中抽时间组织的抗议示威活动也是功不可没。今天我们很高
: 兴地告诉大家，我们的工作终于换来了成果。经过80-20 Initiative的创建主席，前
: 德拉维州副州长，吴仙標(S.B. Woo)博士与UCSD长达一个多月的交涉和不懈努力，我们
: 得到了以下回应：
: 1）吴博士将我们的抗议信交给加大总校长Dr. Mark Yudof后，他很快回复并委派加大
: 圣地亚哥分校的常务副校长Dr. Suresh Subramani来负责处理这件事
: 2）Dr. Subramani邀请了三位UCSD德高望重的华裔教授，与Kubiak同系的诺贝尔奖得主
| c******u
发帖数: 59 | 19 我觉得现在这个结果已经很好了！！！
我收到学生会发的邮件第一反应是，他们能有始有终地做这件事很了不起。
现在这个处理也是他们坚持不懈努力的结果。而且很多学生还是在考试期间忙这件事，
很感谢他们的付出！
我觉得校方还是很重视和配合的，也做了相应的措施。
另外，反对歧视弱势群体这也不是一天两天能万成的，也需要大家长期的努力。
anyway，很感谢UCSD学生会组织了大家向校方表达我们的意思。也谢谢他们把结果及时
告诉我们。我对这个结果还是挺满意的。 | g*******e
发帖数: 1706 | 20 我不否认学生会的努力。 问题是今天的结果和当初的结果完全一样，用词上也没有实
质变化。 为什么当时不满意今天就满意了？ 或者因为“我们”参与了，所以就满意了？
【在 c******u 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得现在这个结果已经很好了！！！
: 我收到学生会发的邮件第一反应是，他们能有始有终地做这件事很了不起。
: 现在这个处理也是他们坚持不懈努力的结果。而且很多学生还是在考试期间忙这件事，
: 很感谢他们的付出！
: 我觉得校方还是很重视和配合的，也做了相应的措施。
: 另外，反对歧视弱势群体这也不是一天两天能万成的，也需要大家长期的努力。
: anyway，很感谢UCSD学生会组织了大家向校方表达我们的意思。也谢谢他们把结果及时
: 告诉我们。我对这个结果还是挺满意的。
| | | Z*****l
发帖数: 14069 | 21 哈哈，从一开始就知道80-20和这里某党代表抢别人功劳的用心。
煞笔吴和其走狗，见一次骂一次。
【在 u**********n 的大作中提到】
: 亲爱的朋友，
: 您一定还记得一个月以前，我们大家群起群力在48小时就筹集到1000多个对加州大学圣
: 地亚哥分校（UCSD）辱华网站事件的抗议签名。之前，mitbbs上各网友的积极参与和
: UCSD学生会同学们在百忙之中抽时间组织的抗议示威活动也是功不可没。今天我们很高
: 兴地告诉大家，我们的工作终于换来了成果。经过80-20 Initiative的创建主席，前
: 德拉维州副州长，吴仙標(S.B. Woo)博士与UCSD长达一个多月的交涉和不懈努力，我们
: 得到了以下回应：
: 1）吴博士将我们的抗议信交给加大总校长Dr. Mark Yudof后，他很快回复并委派加大
: 圣地亚哥分校的常务副校长Dr. Suresh Subramani来负责处理这件事
: 2）Dr. Subramani邀请了三位UCSD德高望重的华裔教授，与Kubiak同系的诺贝尔奖得主
| b**********n
发帖数: 692 | 22 我不想说I told you so, 可是...
I told you so. | o********e
发帖数: 2218 | 23 I think this is a satisfactory outcome too.
Someones of known names put their signatures on a open letter, I take it
with a lot more respect and trust than vomits from some ignorant internet "
shit-youthes".
【在 u**********n 的大作中提到】
: 亲爱的朋友，
: 您一定还记得一个月以前，我们大家群起群力在48小时就筹集到1000多个对加州大学圣
: 地亚哥分校（UCSD）辱华网站事件的抗议签名。之前，mitbbs上各网友的积极参与和
: UCSD学生会同学们在百忙之中抽时间组织的抗议示威活动也是功不可没。今天我们很高
: 兴地告诉大家，我们的工作终于换来了成果。经过80-20 Initiative的创建主席，前
: 德拉维州副州长，吴仙標(S.B. Woo)博士与UCSD长达一个多月的交涉和不懈努力，我们
: 得到了以下回应：
: 1）吴博士将我们的抗议信交给加大总校长Dr. Mark Yudof后，他很快回复并委派加大
: 圣地亚哥分校的常务副校长Dr. Suresh Subramani来负责处理这件事
: 2）Dr. Subramani邀请了三位UCSD德高望重的华裔教授，与Kubiak同系的诺贝尔奖得主
| e*********u
发帖数: 3591 | 24 结果一样吗？现在是正式调查的结果，我愿意相信这三位华裔教授是经过审慎的
调查后，在没有校方压力的情况下才在这样的声明中签字的。确实这样的进步已
经让人满意了，如果你觉得还不够满意，你就不妨提出一个方案来，怎么来找到
让你觉得满意的结果？或者你觉得满意的结果是什么？
了？
【在 g*******e 的大作中提到】
: 我不否认学生会的努力。 问题是今天的结果和当初的结果完全一样，用词上也没有实
: 质变化。 为什么当时不满意今天就满意了？ 或者因为“我们”参与了，所以就满意了？
| J******n
发帖数: 33 | 25 非常满意这样的过程和结果。
结果当然重要，但过程更重要。我们不是想把某个人怎么样。而是通过这件事让人们重
视这个问题。别忘了增设一个副校长的位置也是结果之一！无论怎么说都是可贵的进步
。 | I****9
发帖数: 5245 | 26 Mark g Tudor是我们学校的前校长。。呵呵 | s*********5
发帖数: 5637 | 27 这个我不同意。当初，学校说反歧视调查组会给个说法。从5月到6月也没等到任何回音
。明显就要不了了之了。
现在，学校听到了我们的声音loud and clear，上面的每一项就是我们一点一点争取来的。他们
学校的教授以后不敢拿华裔学生开“中国猪”的涮了吧。
我不知道肉饼同学在大公司或大学这种官僚的地方呆的时间久不久。公司里很多东西都
是‘in between the lines”。具体是什么字眼rumor mill很快就知道了。另外也是由
于我们的争取，现在校报上登出来所有事情。还有这封谴责信不比去年黑人闹事儿谴责
信弱。那封信也没有提及肇事学生的具体名字。
了？
【在 g*******e 的大作中提到】
: 我不否认学生会的努力。 问题是今天的结果和当初的结果完全一样，用词上也没有实
: 质变化。 为什么当时不满意今天就满意了？ 或者因为“我们”参与了，所以就满意了？
| b**g
发帖数: 2813 | 28 既然教授不知情，网页总不是上帝造出来的吧？谁负责的找谁啊，连个替罪羊都找不出
来，就偃旗息鼓了，当初白签字支持了 | s*********5
发帖数: 5637 | 29 另外我得特别说一下，这件是不是某一个人的功劳。很多很多人都出了很多力。给媒体
爆料的，帮着申请网站的，帮着做QR码，一次一次给学校写信的，给自己朋友写信，写
QQ，帮我们征集签名的，期末考时还帮着做poster的。。。在我们失意的时候鼓励的。
。。现在我想到都忍不住眼泪。。。这里就恕我不一一道谢了。
特别谢谢一位网友的那段话：你我都是再普通不过的在美华人，没有政治野心，唯有相
互抱团守望的力量。 当这样的事件不期而至的时候，我们只求对得起自己的良心。”
我不知道为什么SB Woo 72岁的老人还愿意帮我们管档闲事儿，人家现在本来是可以安
享退休生活的时候。后面骂他的人一定也不少，他还愿意坚持着自己的信念给那些骂他
的人争取权利。要是我都不知道要打多少次退堂鼓了。 | s*********5
发帖数: 5637 | 30 这个我们自然提了，学校也自有处理方法。该校有名有望的同系的，不同系的华裔教授们都满意了，
您还有穷追猛打？ 这个网页是两年多前建的“unlinked page".学校虽然没有告诉我
们那学生的名字，但我估计那厮不是毕业了就是在Kubiak手下日子也不好过。
【在 b**g 的大作中提到】
: 既然教授不知情，网页总不是上帝造出来的吧？谁负责的找谁啊，连个替罪羊都找不出
: 来，就偃旗息鼓了，当初白签字支持了
| | | P****n
发帖数: 101 | 31 well, could you pls let us know what you did during the whole process in
action?? What were your contributions?? If you don't feel satisfaction
with this results, why don't you come up an idea and do it rather than
blahing right here?
No matter what kind of consequence comes out, at least, they truly did sth.
don't be so picky. Just DO it!
to
【在 g*******e 的大作中提到】
: I don't think so. As I pointed out, the letter to all staff doesn't have
: any specific information. And there are no mentioning of specific steps to
: take to prevent this from happening again, expect for referring to an
: existing policy document.
: I am glad you find peace in this meaningless fight.
| b**g
发帖数: 2813 | 32 首先承认你们做了很多事情，功劳很大，给华人带了一个好头
但是其一我想不通人家侮辱你了，你为什么不穷最猛打，莫非有什么孙子兵法在里面
其二后面你估计的事情未必就是真的，人家的日子可能很好过，还暗地里说你们雷声大
，雨点小，活该受欺负
授们都满意了，
【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】
: 这个我们自然提了，学校也自有处理方法。该校有名有望的同系的，不同系的华裔教授们都满意了，
: 您还有穷追猛打？ 这个网页是两年多前建的“unlinked page".学校虽然没有告诉我
: 们那学生的名字，但我估计那厮不是毕业了就是在Kubiak手下日子也不好过。
| u**********n
发帖数: 91 | 33 发信人: ucsdchinaman (Chinaman事件), 信区: Military
标 题: Re: ！！！UCSD事件结果出来了！！！
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Jul 15 21:39:06 2011, 美东)
这个我来解释一下。谈判时要give and take。这个我们自然提了。这个网页是两年多
年前建的“unlinked page".该校现在已经花了很多人力物力调查此事，更重要的是提
高全校对类似事件的认识，学校里有名有望的同系的/不同系的华裔教授们都满意了，
难道我们还要上演一出UCSD华裔教授和BBS网友对着干，正好被人利用的闹剧吗？而且
学校对我们发公开信的要求也得到了满足，还增设了副校长的位置，我们通过和gmail
list里面的核心同工讨论后，觉得没有还有穷追猛打的必要。
要穷追猛打的话，请具体谈谈谁来组织，怎么组织。在华人中有没有群众基础。
如果我们谁都不相信那别人凭什么要相信我们呢，希望大家能理解。 | w***y
发帖数: 150 | 34 那些嫌不过瘾的童鞋们，问问自己，从始至终，你自己出了多少力？不管结果怎样, 这
社会办事是要靠本事的, 华人目前也就这力量了。希望一次能比一次强。 | D**********R
发帖数: 25234 | 35 赞！感谢并钦佩你们的努力！
，学校听到了我们的声音。以后相信同学们要公开开这种玩笑之前要想想了。这是我们
要的。
了之了。学校现在给我们了个交代。三位华裔教授的信也很支持学校的调查，我们要求
的公开信学校也发了，甚至还增设了一个副校长的位置。试问大家还想要什么？很可惜
我们中国人常像一盘散沙，不支持80-20这样的组织，以后就更没地方说话了。
【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】
: 我们的目的是提高这件事的认识。不能人家骂了你，打了你，你就悄悄走了。很明显，学校听到了我们的声音。以后相信同学们要公开开这种玩笑之前要想想了。这是我们要的。
: Dr.Woo没有让大家捐钱。但是没有80-20，我们绝对到不了今天。这件事可能就不了了之了。学校现在给我们了个交代。三位华裔教授的信也很支持学校的调查，我们要求的公开信学校也发了，甚至还增设了一个副校长的位置。试问大家还想要什么？很可惜我们中国人常像一盘散沙，不支持80-20这样的组织，以后就更没地方说话了。
| c******u
发帖数: 59 | 36 楼上觉得这样的处理还不够的同学，我也理解你们心情。
都是为了华人在美地位的提高嘛。
但是，这件事，这样的结果确实不错了。
很多时候，不是想怎样就能怎样，达成愿望的背后不是决心，是实力。
楼上说不满意的同学，你们想要怎样的结果？你们觉得还可以采取怎样的行动？
有人说要找到做这个网页的“人”，那其实是没有意义的。
你就算找到那个人又怎样？顶多让那个人写封道歉信。
应该找的人就是Kubiak。因为那是他的网页，他有不可推卸的责任。
想让Kubiak下课？这个我也想，杀一儆百，但是用什么理由？
人家校方说了，我们要先调查，再下结论。调查的结果就是这个教授不知情。
你不相信这个结果吗？那也没用，因为你没有本事去推翻。
就像国内的法院告诉上访的人调查的对象没有贪污一样。
（我不是质疑UCSD的调查结果，我只是说我们对结果基本上只能接受）
那你再说，就算教授不知道，但他的网页他应该负责，他失职了。
校方说，是的，所以这个教授要慎重道歉，并且下不为例。
你说光道歉不行，我们要让他受到惩罚。
校方说，不好意思，我们要按照校规行事，这事还不到下课的严重性。
那你再怎么说？去改校规吗？
所以，不满意的同学，这件事已经进行不下去了。
华人在政治上没有领导作用，在媒体上没有很响的声音，在经济上没有把握某个领域的
命脉，说的话别人能听已经不错了。
不服的话，大家再努力吧。
努力让你不说话别人都要很认真地等你下面说什么话。 | s*********5
发帖数: 5637 | 37 我想很多人都是有热情并关心天下事的人。如果只听到批评80-20的一面之词就
产生先入为主的排斥心理，我觉得挺可惜的。我只是想请不了解80-20的人去它的网站
去看看，并思想一下，如果不用这种在美国行之有效的办法，我们怎样帮亚裔在美国争
取到权益呢？
请看插图，我们亚裔在美国其实是很没有地位的，不论是在学界，公司里还是政府里，
都是under-represented的族群。当我们秉承“不能让孩子输在起跑线上”的方针，从
小就把自己的孩子辛辛苦苦的带去上各种才艺课，学十几们AP课，要让他们比同龄的其
他族裔孩子都好很多很多才能上个名校。上了名校后却只能做高级民工，大家觉得这样
值吗？这样的社会是平等的吗？犹太人怎样用政治工具来迅速提高他们在美国的地位是
值得我们学习的。在上世纪二三十年代，美国各大名校争先恐后的限制考高分的而对政
治漠不关心的犹太人入学。你们想知道他们的处境怎样才发生了翻天覆地的变化吗，请
阅读“The Chosen: The Hidden History of Admission and Exclusion at Harvard,
Yale, and Princeton"一书。
SB Woo在美国从政多年，他也很乐意把他学到的一些经验和我们分享。SWING bloc
vote不是他发明的，十几年来也证明的确在为亚裔维权上也适用。但最大的阻碍可能是
我们自己的冷漠，短视，最后反而断送了自己孩子的前程。$30块钱一课的钢琴课能改
变我们孩子的境况吗？十几门AP课和SAT的满分就能使他们出人头地吗？
如果我们希望在美国长期生活，就学一下美国式政治的运作方法吧。我们不能改变整个
世界，但是的确可以通过集体的力量改善亚裔在美国的形象和地位，从而增加每个人成
功的几率。希望真诚的朋友到80-20的网站去看一看它是怎样一回事并给一些实质性的
建议吧。
如果你还知道其他比80-20更有效的亚裔维权组织，请把他们的事迹和联系方式告诉大
家。我也愿意参加。如果大家都是"事不关己，高高挂起”，我们还是继续做最高学历
，最低成就的“model citizen"吧。
80-20 is a national, nonpartisan, Political Action Committee dedicated to
winning equal opportunity and justice for all Asian Americans through a
SWING bloc vote, ideally directing 80% of our community's votes and money to
the presidential candidate endorsed by the 80-20, who better represents the
interests of all APAs. Hence, the name "80-20" was created。
http://www.80-20initiative.net/faq/new.asp
http://www.80-20initiative.net/faq/long.asp | p*********n
发帖数: 1618 | 38 Couldn't have said it better.
【在 P****n 的大作中提到】
: well, could you pls let us know what you did during the whole process in
: action?? What were your contributions?? If you don't feel satisfaction
: with this results, why don't you come up an idea and do it rather than
: blahing right here?
: No matter what kind of consequence comes out, at least, they truly did sth.
: don't be so picky. Just DO it!
:
: to
| v****0
发帖数: 480 | 39 说得好，毫无贡献还特难伺候。
【在 P****n 的大作中提到】
: well, could you pls let us know what you did during the whole process in
: action?? What were your contributions?? If you don't feel satisfaction
: with this results, why don't you come up an idea and do it rather than
: blahing right here?
: No matter what kind of consequence comes out, at least, they truly did sth.
: don't be so picky. Just DO it!
:
: to
| f*****w
发帖数: 1451 | 40 Re.
【在 y****i 的大作中提到】
: I'm glad the investigation has a satisfactory result.
: I'm happy the professor has been proven to be innocent, although he should
: and had taken full responsibility for overlooking the contents on his
: website.
: I think UCSD has done a great job throughout this matter.
| | | j***z
发帖数: 1130 | 41 支持80-20
你们这些人出钱出力了吗？人家出钱出力的争取到了目前的结果你们不但不支持还到处
挑刺怎么不让做事的人寒心
就是你们这些人，让国人无法团结，你们根本就是汉奸，破坏国人团结的汉奸 | I*****y
发帖数: 6402 | 42 这还上纲上线了
【在 j***z 的大作中提到】
: 支持80-20
: 你们这些人出钱出力了吗？人家出钱出力的争取到了目前的结果你们不但不支持还到处
: 挑刺怎么不让做事的人寒心
: 就是你们这些人，让国人无法团结，你们根本就是汉奸，破坏国人团结的汉奸
| Z*****l
发帖数: 14069 | 43 汉奸？lol，俺以前倒是经常骂80-20是汉奸，专跟中产华人作对，嫌税不够多，政府还
不够大，选什么民主党。后来有人说偷渡的也是华人，他们支持民主党无可厚非，才不
骂了。
【在 j***z 的大作中提到】
: 支持80-20
: 你们这些人出钱出力了吗？人家出钱出力的争取到了目前的结果你们不但不支持还到处
: 挑刺怎么不让做事的人寒心
: 就是你们这些人，让国人无法团结，你们根本就是汉奸，破坏国人团结的汉奸
| s*********5
发帖数: 5637 | 44 Internet postings have many light moments. However, on such a matter of community concern, please engage in a serious and substantive discourse when one does not agree with each other. I thank you in advance for that.
Please define any statement precisely. What kind of politician am I supposed to be to participate in such a matter of public concern, and what evidence supports your statement? Just like in the Kubiak case, you will have to base your conclusions on hard evidence to convict someone.
I can tell you point blank I am an ordinary professional just like most of us, who would rather prefer to focus only on my family and my career. However, I am also a concerned citizen who would like to contribute what I can when there are issues that affect our Chinese American community, and therefore affecting me as an individual. However feeble my effort was, at least I devoted my personal time to an issue that I cared about. Working with other concerned citizens, we pushed the issue to a level that is consistent with the current level of the Asian Americans' group political clout and participation. I have no other ambition beyond that other than pointing out 80-20 played an instrumental role in the negotiation with UCSD and that I personally believe it is a good instrument in the coming elections to magnify our group clout. You can feel free to disagree. What other venue do you suggest would be effective? Please let all of us know what they did and how to contact them, I want to join them as well. Whatever one you choose, please participate. Sitting in front of the computer taking pleasure insulting others does not contribute to any solution.
I personally respect SB Woo for his consistent and stubborn effort over the last decade and half to foster greater Asian American clout. He is a first-generation Chinese American who’s risen to the Lieutenant Governor's post. You have to give credit to such an extraordinary accomplishment. If not, why don't you become UCSD president first (so that you can fire Kubiak without hard evidences then get yourself fired for the juvenile behavior.) and then become a governor (pick your state). I would salute you.
To those who said 80-20 is a democratic stooge and ask me who would I vote in 2012 (implying democrat?) You've got to be kidding. Before the politicians and each party issue verifiable and enforceable written commitments as to what they will do for the Asian American community after winning the office, do you expect me to pick who would I vote for? I hope you would put more thought into your own vote and not just like picking a lottery. The whole idea of 80-20 is that we will vote for whichever party who dole out more goodies to the Asian American community. If it is the Democrat, be it. If it is the Republican, be it. Would you please do some research before drawing a one-liner conclusion to scare people? If after the research, you don't like what you see, why don't participate and run for a delegate position so that you can influence any decision 80-20 would make in candidate endorsement? It is a serious business for all involved. I hope people have the common sense on the concept of group clout.
If I go to Obama (well I can't even get near him) and said I want him to sign a binding statement to enforce Department of Labor regulations on behalf of Asian Americans, I will be ignored because I am nothing. If 80-20 goes to Obama and said if you don't sign this you risk up to 300,000 votes on our mailing list and we will mobilize against you in the coming election, he will seriously consider. He did sign such a statement. The Department of Labor had since concluded the 80-20 compiled statistics that Asian Americans do NOT enjoy the full benefits of other ethnic groups in the workplace as valid. We are now starting the review period over whether the Obama administration had live up to its promise in delivery goodies before the next election comes up and what the Republican can offer to EARN our votes. Please remember Bush's Labor Secretary Elaine Chao, a Chinese American, refused to even conduct an investigation to see whether the 80-20 statistics is valid. When John McCain refused to sign the pledge, would you still cast your vote for him just because he might be a winner? Do you want 80-20 to vote the Republican under such a circumstance?
I also respect SB Woo for his involvement in the UCSD incident because he, with 80-20's support, has the political clout to negotiate with the UCSD administration. If you don't believe it, why don't you call up the UCSD chancellor yourself to discuss the matter and see if you can extract more concession?
To those who say you do not have the right to do anything anywhere before you have demonstrated the capacity to solve the world's problems, including the democratization of China and its human rights issues, I want to say I salute those individuals making their endeavors and sacrifices. Each one of us, however tiny our capacities, can do something that affects us in our backyard.
Having choosing to stay in the US, my backyard is San Diego and I feel the UCSD issue personally touched me, therefore I wanted to work with others to do the very little we could. I choose to live in this country in no small part because the United States, however imperfect, has a basic level of the rule of laws which provide the tools an ordinary citizen can use. We are encouraged to participate in and negotiate for our rightful concerns. I personally believe (and you can feel free to disagree) China does not currently have such a system. I always vote with my feet and my action and not empty words. I have voted with my feet to stay here in the foreseeable future (which does not carry any connotation that I do not love China and our fellow Chinese people as some hot heads would suggest. Just to the contrary.) If you chose to fight for a better political system in China, I will cheer you on. To suggest that anyone care to do something about the UCSD incident would either have to be a Chinese Consulate agent to instigate the investigation, or have to be an American government's stooge for accepting the outcome of the investigation, is really an insult to people's intelligence.
Going back to the Kubiak case, if you first reach the conclusion he did it, then focus on gathering evidence only if it support your pre-determined conclusion and ignore anything to the contrary (such as in the WMD conclusion that led to the Iraq war), can this really be called an investigation or just witch hunt? We are all professionals living in this country; we have to behave in a more dignified fashion.
The UCSD administration behaved professionally, and spent enormous amount manpower and other resources on both the investigation itself and the effort in raising awareness. For these efforts, they have earned my respect. (Again you can feel free to disagree.) Even the three Chinese American professors involved are starting to get fatigued by this drawn-out process and preferred to move on. If these well-respected UCSD Chinese American professors are willing to put down their names after participated and contributed to such an investigation in a report which concluded that Kubiak did NOT do it himself (even though he has overall responsibility in policing his own website), are you suggesting they are all stooges of the UCSD administration unless they concur with your pre-conceived conclusion? At least one of the professors knows Kubiak well and he can personally vouched he had not observed any past incident that Kubiak had any racial bias against Chinese Americans over the decade-long associations. Under such a circumstance, do you want to star in a comic show in which MITBBS bloggers accuse UCSD Chinese American professors as liars and the Chinese American professors defending their honors by striking back at the fellow Chinese American as hot-heads? (That would be a really juicy story for the news media of which only people who hate Chinese Americans would enjoy reading.) I have my full confidence and my respect to these professors. What is your evidence to support your view?
I understand the main dissatisfaction is that UCSD declined to reveal the full-content of their confidential report to the general public. However, these professors did participate in the evidence gathering, the full content of the report, and the conclusions. They have vouched the validity of the conclusions with their own reputations. If you believe no one but yourself, why should anyone believe in you? Are you GOD?
It is understandable the UCSD administration does not want to publicize the full report, which may or may not contain the name of the person who actually did or at least being the suspect of such an act. If Chinese Americans have the group clout of what African Americans currently possess (not what they had in the 1950s), we may be able to force UCSD to publish the report. However, we currently do not. Pushing further carries an extreme high-risk of backfire, of Chinese Americans struggling against Chinese Americans. If you review in totality how UCSD conducted its investigation, and how some of the MITBBS bloggers handled their remarks (while hiding behind the anonymity of the internet), it is not hard to conclude who now occupies the moral high ground if the general American public is the jury. Even a novice like me understands politics in the real world involves "give and take". If you are only interested in forcing your demands down someone else's throat, you'd better slowly build up your group clout by participation, over many decades, through organizations such as 80-20. All except one (the name of the offender and his punishment) of our stated goals have been accomplished.
Therefore, I conclude (1) I did the very little I could to facilitate the process that involve many dedicated individuals in a collective effort. I am proud to have fulfilled my civic duty. (2) I am satisfied by the UCSD's effort, especially the outreaching effort. (3) I would not participate in further investigation. If someone wants to carry it on further, please just do it, organize something effective, and not to just trade insults against one others. After all, we are all Chinese American brothers and sisters. Let's be nice to each other. If we don't, who will? | s*********5
发帖数: 5637 | 45 另外我建议其他不住在SD的，要讲话就到军版去吧。在那里我奉陪。
在这里，我就不和你们玩儿了。不需要在污染SD的好山好水。 | F******p
发帖数: 2099 | 46 Congratulations! You guys have done a lot to achieve this. | O***n
发帖数: 13127 | 47 support!
when
【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】
: Internet postings have many light moments. However, on such a matter of community concern, please engage in a serious and substantive discourse when one does not agree with each other. I thank you in advance for that.
: Please define any statement precisely. What kind of politician am I supposed to be to participate in such a matter of public concern, and what evidence supports your statement? Just like in the Kubiak case, you will have to base your conclusions on hard evidence to convict someone.
: I can tell you point blank I am an ordinary professional just like most of us, who would rather prefer to focus only on my family and my career. However, I am also a concerned citizen who would like to contribute what I can when there are issues that affect our Chinese American community, and therefore affecting me as an individual. However feeble my effort was, at least I devoted my personal time to an issue that I cared about. Working with other concerned citizens, we pushed the issue to a level that is consistent with the current level of the Asian Americans' group political clout and participation. I have no other ambition beyond that other than pointing out 80-20 played an instrumental role in the negotiation with UCSD and that I personally believe it is a good instrument in the coming elections to magnify our group clout. You can feel free to disagree. What other venue do you suggest would be effective? Please let all of us know what they did and how to contact them, I want to join them as well. Whatever one you choose, please participate. Sitting in front of the computer taking pleasure insulting others does not contribute to any solution.
: I personally respect SB Woo for his consistent and stubborn effort over the last decade and half to foster greater Asian American clout. He is a first-generation Chinese American who’s risen to the Lieutenant Governor's post. You have to give credit to such an extraordinary accomplishment. If not, why don't you become UCSD president first (so that you can fire Kubiak without hard evidences then get yourself fired for the juvenile behavior.) and then become a governor (pick your state). I would salute you.
: To those who said 80-20 is a democratic stooge and ask me who would I vote in 2012 (implying democrat?) You've got to be kidding. Before the politicians and each party issue verifiable and enforceable written commitments as to what they will do for the Asian American community after winning the office, do you expect me to pick who would I vote for? I hope you would put more thought into your own vote and not just like picking a lottery. The whole idea of 80-20 is that we will vote for whichever party who dole out more goodies to the Asian American community. If it is the Democrat, be it. If it is the Republican, be it. Would you please do some research before drawing a one-liner conclusion to scare people? If after the research, you don't like what you see, why don't participate and run for a delegate position so that you can influence any decision 80-20 would make in candidate endorsement? It is a serious business for all involved. I hope people have the common sense on the concept of group clout.
: If I go to Obama (well I can't even get near him) and said I want him to sign a binding statement to enforce Department of Labor regulations on behalf of Asian Americans, I will be ignored because I am nothing. If 80-20 goes to Obama and said if you don't sign this you risk up to 300,000 votes on our mailing list and we will mobilize against you in the coming election, he will seriously consider. He did sign such a statement. The Department of Labor had since concluded the 80-20 compiled statistics that Asian Americans do NOT enjoy the full benefits of other ethnic groups in the workplace as valid. We are now starting the review period over whether the Obama administration had live up to its promise in delivery goodies before the next election comes up and what the Republican can offer to EARN our votes. Please remember Bush's Labor Secretary Elaine Chao, a Chinese American, refused to even conduct an investigation to see whether the 80-20 statistics is valid. When John McCain refused to sign the pledge, would you still cast your vote for him just because he might be a winner? Do you want 80-20 to vote the Republican under such a circumstance?
: I also respect SB Woo for his involvement in the UCSD incident because he, with 80-20's support, has the political clout to negotiate with the UCSD administration. If you don't believe it, why don't you call up the UCSD chancellor yourself to discuss the matter and see if you can extract more concession?
: To those who say you do not have the right to do anything anywhere before you have demonstrated the capacity to solve the world's problems, including the democratization of China and its human rights issues, I want to say I salute those individuals making their endeavors and sacrifices. Each one of us, however tiny our capacities, can do something that affects us in our backyard.
: Having choosing to stay in the US, my backyard is San Diego and I feel the UCSD issue personally touched me, therefore I wanted to work with others to do the very little we could. I choose to live in this country in no small part because the United States, however imperfect, has a basic level of the rule of laws which provide the tools an ordinary citizen can use. We are encouraged to participate in and negotiate for our rightful concerns. I personally believe (and you can feel free to disagree) China does not currently have such a system. I always vote with my feet and my action and not empty words. I have voted with my feet to stay here in the foreseeable future (which does not carry any connotation that I do not love China and our fellow Chinese people as some hot heads would suggest. Just to the contrary.) If you chose to fight for a better political system in China, I will cheer you on. To suggest that anyone care to do something about the UCSD incident would either have to be a Chinese Consulate agent to instigate the investigation, or have to be an American government's stooge for accepting the outcome of the investigation, is really an insult to people's intelligence.
: Going back to the Kubiak case, if you first reach the conclusion he did it, then focus on gathering evidence only if it support your pre-determined conclusion and ignore anything to the contrary (such as in the WMD conclusion that led to the Iraq war), can this really be called an investigation or just witch hunt? We are all professionals living in this country; we have to behave in a more dignified fashion.
| u**********n
发帖数: 91 | 48 感谢大家的建议，我们把当时为什么没有坚决要求给我们公布网页学生名字的原因加在
了原帖上：
“由于可以理解的原因，学校不愿对校外公开调查报告的本身，例如具体是那个学生写
的网页。但考虑到学校三位资深华裔教授都已积极参加了调查的全过程，并对调查所取
得的证据及结论投了满意票。他们告诉我们学校已经花了很多人力物力在这件事上，自
己也愿意为Kubiak教授的为人担保。在这样的情况下，要一直深究下去，我们需要付出
极大的代价，很可能演化为华人之间互相指责的闹剧。另外，我们的华人社区现在没有
这样的共识和凝聚力。所以，通过和Gmail list几位抗议骨干分子的商量后，考虑到我
们主要的原始目的，即让学校给我们一个调查的交代并借这个机会让学校加强对种族敏
感字眼认识的目的，已经达到。总的来说，我们对学校对此事的处理表示满意。” | w******x
发帖数: 2769 | 49 好长，哪位能给个及句话的SUMMARY吗？
另，GOOD JOB!
community concern, please engage in a serious and substantive discourse when
one does not agree with each other. I thank you in advance for that.
supposed to be to participate in such a matter of public concern, and what
evidence supports your statement? Just like in the Kubiak case, you will
have to base your conclusions on hard evidence to convict someone.
us, who would rather prefer to focus only on my family and my career.
However, I am also a concerned citizen who would like to contribute what I
can when there are issues that affect our Chinese American community, and
therefore affecting me as an individual. However feeble my effort was, at
least I devoted my personal time to an issue that I cared about. Working
with other concerned citizens, we pushed the issue to a : level that is
consistent with the current level of the Asian Americans' group political
clout and participation. I have no other ambition beyond that other than
pointing out 80-20 played an instrumental role in the negotiation with UCSD
and that I personally believe it is a good instrument in the coming
elections to magnify our group clout. You can feel free to disagree. What
other venue do you suggest would be effective? Please let all of us know
what they did and how to contact them, I wan: t to join them as well.
Whatever one you choose, please participate. Sitting in front of the
computer taking pleasure insulting others does not contribute to any
solution.
the last decade and half to foster greater Asian American clout. He is a
first-generation Chinese American who’s risen to the Lieutenant Governor's
post. You have to give credit to such an extraordinary accomplishment. If
not, why don't you become UCSD president first (so that you can fire Kubiak
without hard evidences then get yourself fired for the juvenile behavior.)
and then become a governor (pick your state). I wo: uld salute you.
in 2012 (implying democrat?) You've got to be kidding. Before the
politicians and each party issue verifiable and enforceable written
commitments as to what they will do for the Asian American community after
winning the office, do you expect me to pick who would I vote for? I hope
you would put more thought into your own vote and not just like picking a
lottery. The whole idea of 80-20 is that we will vote for whicheve: r party
who dole out more goodies to the Asian American community. If it is the
Democrat, be it. If it is the Republican, be it. Would you please do some
research before drawing a one-liner conclusion to scare people? If after
the research, you don't like what you see, why don't participate and run for
a delegate position so that you can influence any decision 80-20 would make
in candidate endorsement? It is a serious business for all involved. I
hope people have the common sense on the co: ncept of group clout.
【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】
: Internet postings have many light moments. However, on such a matter of community concern, please engage in a serious and substantive discourse when one does not agree with each other. I thank you in advance for that.
: Please define any statement precisely. What kind of politician am I supposed to be to participate in such a matter of public concern, and what evidence supports your statement? Just like in the Kubiak case, you will have to base your conclusions on hard evidence to convict someone.
: I can tell you point blank I am an ordinary professional just like most of us, who would rather prefer to focus only on my family and my career. However, I am also a concerned citizen who would like to contribute what I can when there are issues that affect our Chinese American community, and therefore affecting me as an individual. However feeble my effort was, at least I devoted my personal time to an issue that I cared about. Working with other concerned citizens, we pushed the issue to a level that is consistent with the current level of the Asian Americans' group political clout and participation. I have no other ambition beyond that other than pointing out 80-20 played an instrumental role in the negotiation with UCSD and that I personally believe it is a good instrument in the coming elections to magnify our group clout. You can feel free to disagree. What other venue do you suggest would be effective? Please let all of us know what they did and how to contact them, I want to join them as well. Whatever one you choose, please participate. Sitting in front of the computer taking pleasure insulting others does not contribute to any solution.
: I personally respect SB Woo for his consistent and stubborn effort over the last decade and half to foster greater Asian American clout. He is a first-generation Chinese American who’s risen to the Lieutenant Governor's post. You have to give credit to such an extraordinary accomplishment. If not, why don't you become UCSD president first (so that you can fire Kubiak without hard evidences then get yourself fired for the juvenile behavior.) and then become a governor (pick your state). I would salute you.
: To those who said 80-20 is a democratic stooge and ask me who would I vote in 2012 (implying democrat?) You've got to be kidding. Before the politicians and each party issue verifiable and enforceable written commitments as to what they will do for the Asian American community after winning the office, do you expect me to pick who would I vote for? I hope you would put more thought into your own vote and not just like picking a lottery. The whole idea of 80-20 is that we will vote for whichever party who dole out more goodies to the Asian American community. If it is the Democrat, be it. If it is the Republican, be it. Would you please do some research before drawing a one-liner conclusion to scare people? If after the research, you don't like what you see, why don't participate and run for a delegate position so that you can influence any decision 80-20 would make in candidate endorsement? It is a serious business for all involved. I hope people have the common sense on the concept of group clout.
: If I go to Obama (well I can't even get near him) and said I want him to sign a binding statement to enforce Department of Labor regulations on behalf of Asian Americans, I will be ignored because I am nothing. If 80-20 goes to Obama and said if you don't sign this you risk up to 300,000 votes on our mailing list and we will mobilize against you in the coming election, he will seriously consider. He did sign such a statement. The Department of Labor had since concluded the 80-20 compiled statistics that Asian Americans do NOT enjoy the full benefits of other ethnic groups in the workplace as valid. We are now starting the review period over whether the Obama administration had live up to its promise in delivery goodies before the next election comes up and what the Republican can offer to EARN our votes. Please remember Bush's Labor Secretary Elaine Chao, a Chinese American, refused to even conduct an investigation to see whether the 80-20 statistics is valid. When John McCain refused to sign the pledge, would you still cast your vote for him just because he might be a winner? Do you want 80-20 to vote the Republican under such a circumstance?
: I also respect SB Woo for his involvement in the UCSD incident because he, with 80-20's support, has the political clout to negotiate with the UCSD administration. If you don't believe it, why don't you call up the UCSD chancellor yourself to discuss the matter and see if you can extract more concession?
: To those who say you do not have the right to do anything anywhere before you have demonstrated the capacity to solve the world's problems, including the democratization of China and its human rights issues, I want to say I salute those individuals making their endeavors and sacrifices. Each one of us, however tiny our capacities, can do something that affects us in our backyard.
: Having choosing to stay in the US, my backyard is San Diego and I feel the UCSD issue personally touched me, therefore I wanted to work with others to do the very little we could. I choose to live in this country in no small part because the United States, however imperfect, has a basic level of the rule of laws which provide the tools an ordinary citizen can use. We are encouraged to participate in and negotiate for our rightful concerns. I personally believe (and you can feel free to disagree) China does not currently have such a system. I always vote with my feet and my action and not empty words. I have voted with my feet to stay here in the foreseeable future (which does not carry any connotation that I do not love China and our fellow Chinese people as some hot heads would suggest. Just to the contrary.) If you chose to fight for a better political system in China, I will cheer you on. To suggest that anyone care to do something about the UCSD incident would either have to be a Chinese Consulate agent to instigate the investigation, or have to be an American government's stooge for accepting the outcome of the investigation, is really an insult to people's intelligence.
: Going back to the Kubiak case, if you first reach the conclusion he did it, then focus on gathering evidence only if it support your pre-determined conclusion and ignore anything to the contrary (such as in the WMD conclusion that led to the Iraq war), can this really be called an investigation or just witch hunt? We are all professionals living in this country; we have to behave in a more dignified fashion.
| h****u
发帖数: 277 | | | | m*****a
发帖数: 658 | | n******7
发帖数: 12463 | | h****6
发帖数: 229 | 53 我觉得这个结果已经很好了！！！
The existing policies are fine and only need to be enforced. The problem is
that people tend to ignore the existence of the policy. If you get people to
hear your voice and they paid attention, the policy will be enforced. Just
like the non-discriminating policy won by black people, many people still
tend to discriminate them, but they can't do it openly. | d******e
发帖数: 1424 | 54 Well said and well done. Thanks!
community concern, please engage in a serious and substantive discourse when
one does not agree with each other. I thank you in advance for that.
supposed to be to participate in such a matter of public concern, and what
evidence supports your statement? Just like in the Kubiak case, you will
have to base your conclusions on hard evidence to convict someone.
us, who would rather prefer to focus only on my family and my career.
However, I am also a concerned citizen who would like to contribute what I
can when there are issues that affect our Chinese American community, and
therefore affecting me as an individual. However feeble my effort was, at
least I devoted my personal time to an issue that I cared about. Working
with other concerned citizens, we pushed the issue to a : level that is
consistent with the current level of the Asian Americans' group political
clout and participation. I have no other ambition beyond that other than
pointing out 80-20 played an instrumental role in the negotiation with UCSD
and that I personally believe it is a good instrument in the coming
elections to magnify our group clout. You can feel free to disagree. What
other venue do you suggest would be effective? Please let all of us know
what they did and how to contact them, I wan: t to join them as well.
Whatever one you choose, please participate. Sitting in front of the
computer taking pleasure insulting others does not contribute to any
solution.
the last decade and half to foster greater Asian American clout. He is a
first-generation Chinese American who’s risen to the Lieutenant Governor's
post. You have to give credit to such an extraordinary accomplishment. If
not, why don't you become UCSD president first (so that you can fire Kubiak
without hard evidences then get yourself fired for the juvenile behavior.)
and then become a governor (pick your state). I wo: uld salute you.
in 2012 (implying democrat?) You've got to be kidding. Before the
politicians and each party issue verifiable and enforceable written
commitments as to what they will do for the Asian American community after
winning the office, do you expect me to pick who would I vote for? I hope
you would put more thought into your own vote and not just like picking a
lottery. The whole idea of 80-20 is that we will vote for whicheve: r party
who dole out more goodies to the Asian American community. If it is the
Democrat, be it. If it is the Republican, be it. Would you please do some
research before drawing a one-liner conclusion to scare people? If after
the research, you don't like what you see, why don't participate and run for
a delegate position so that you can influence any decision 80-20 would make
in candidate endorsement? It is a serious business for all involved. I
hope people have the common sense on the co: ncept of group clout.
【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】
: Internet postings have many light moments. However, on such a matter of community concern, please engage in a serious and substantive discourse when one does not agree with each other. I thank you in advance for that.
: Please define any statement precisely. What kind of politician am I supposed to be to participate in such a matter of public concern, and what evidence supports your statement? Just like in the Kubiak case, you will have to base your conclusions on hard evidence to convict someone.
: I can tell you point blank I am an ordinary professional just like most of us, who would rather prefer to focus only on my family and my career. However, I am also a concerned citizen who would like to contribute what I can when there are issues that affect our Chinese American community, and therefore affecting me as an individual. However feeble my effort was, at least I devoted my personal time to an issue that I cared about. Working with other concerned citizens, we pushed the issue to a level that is consistent with the current level of the Asian Americans' group political clout and participation. I have no other ambition beyond that other than pointing out 80-20 played an instrumental role in the negotiation with UCSD and that I personally believe it is a good instrument in the coming elections to magnify our group clout. You can feel free to disagree. What other venue do you suggest would be effective? Please let all of us know what they did and how to contact them, I want to join them as well. Whatever one you choose, please participate. Sitting in front of the computer taking pleasure insulting others does not contribute to any solution.
: I personally respect SB Woo for his consistent and stubborn effort over the last decade and half to foster greater Asian American clout. He is a first-generation Chinese American who’s risen to the Lieutenant Governor's post. You have to give credit to such an extraordinary accomplishment. If not, why don't you become UCSD president first (so that you can fire Kubiak without hard evidences then get yourself fired for the juvenile behavior.) and then become a governor (pick your state). I would salute you.
: To those who said 80-20 is a democratic stooge and ask me who would I vote in 2012 (implying democrat?) You've got to be kidding. Before the politicians and each party issue verifiable and enforceable written commitments as to what they will do for the Asian American community after winning the office, do you expect me to pick who would I vote for? I hope you would put more thought into your own vote and not just like picking a lottery. The whole idea of 80-20 is that we will vote for whichever party who dole out more goodies to the Asian American community. If it is the Democrat, be it. If it is the Republican, be it. Would you please do some research before drawing a one-liner conclusion to scare people? If after the research, you don't like what you see, why don't participate and run for a delegate position so that you can influence any decision 80-20 would make in candidate endorsement? It is a serious business for all involved. I hope people have the common sense on the concept of group clout.
: If I go to Obama (well I can't even get near him) and said I want him to sign a binding statement to enforce Department of Labor regulations on behalf of Asian Americans, I will be ignored because I am nothing. If 80-20 goes to Obama and said if you don't sign this you risk up to 300,000 votes on our mailing list and we will mobilize against you in the coming election, he will seriously consider. He did sign such a statement. The Department of Labor had since concluded the 80-20 compiled statistics that Asian Americans do NOT enjoy the full benefits of other ethnic groups in the workplace as valid. We are now starting the review period over whether the Obama administration had live up to its promise in delivery goodies before the next election comes up and what the Republican can offer to EARN our votes. Please remember Bush's Labor Secretary Elaine Chao, a Chinese American, refused to even conduct an investigation to see whether the 80-20 statistics is valid. When John McCain refused to sign the pledge, would you still cast your vote for him just because he might be a winner? Do you want 80-20 to vote the Republican under such a circumstance?
: I also respect SB Woo for his involvement in the UCSD incident because he, with 80-20's support, has the political clout to negotiate with the UCSD administration. If you don't believe it, why don't you call up the UCSD chancellor yourself to discuss the matter and see if you can extract more concession?
: To those who say you do not have the right to do anything anywhere before you have demonstrated the capacity to solve the world's problems, including the democratization of China and its human rights issues, I want to say I salute those individuals making their endeavors and sacrifices. Each one of us, however tiny our capacities, can do something that affects us in our backyard.
: Having choosing to stay in the US, my backyard is San Diego and I feel the UCSD issue personally touched me, therefore I wanted to work with others to do the very little we could. I choose to live in this country in no small part because the United States, however imperfect, has a basic level of the rule of laws which provide the tools an ordinary citizen can use. We are encouraged to participate in and negotiate for our rightful concerns. I personally believe (and you can feel free to disagree) China does not currently have such a system. I always vote with my feet and my action and not empty words. I have voted with my feet to stay here in the foreseeable future (which does not carry any connotation that I do not love China and our fellow Chinese people as some hot heads would suggest. Just to the contrary.) If you chose to fight for a better political system in China, I will cheer you on. To suggest that anyone care to do something about the UCSD incident would either have to be a Chinese Consulate agent to instigate the investigation, or have to be an American government's stooge for accepting the outcome of the investigation, is really an insult to people's intelligence.
: Going back to the Kubiak case, if you first reach the conclusion he did it, then focus on gathering evidence only if it support your pre-determined conclusion and ignore anything to the contrary (such as in the WMD conclusion that led to the Iraq war), can this really be called an investigation or just witch hunt? We are all professionals living in this country; we have to behave in a more dignified fashion.
| j*x
发帖数: 931 | | m*****z
发帖数: 1451 | 56 刚check了邮箱，没有收到公开信啊？？？？难道是有选择的发？ | L***6
发帖数: 8307 | 57 唉。。。老中就是受气的命啊。。 人又少 又不团结 又比较懦弱 在中国连TG都玩
不过 怎么可能在外面玩的过白人 还以少胜多 怎么可能？？ 老中唯一的出路 就
是像老墨那样一家4，5个那样猛生 没有其他办法 但是老中女又很娇气 又喜欢外F
所以老中必然是最被歧视和欺负的一个群体 这个是绝对的 | u**********n
发帖数: 91 | 58 如果你在我们的gmail list里又还没有把ucsdlabrule(at)gmail.com加到你的address
book的话，请在你的spam或junk folder里找一下。如果还有问题，请把你的email地址
再发给我。
公开信的内容基本上和这个上贴差不多。
【在 m*****z 的大作中提到】
: 刚check了邮箱，没有收到公开信啊？？？？难道是有选择的发？
| r****o
发帖数: 4282 | 59
F
人不少 就是懦弱 怕事 娇气 不团结 爱互斗 崇洋媚外 自扫门前雪
【在 L***6 的大作中提到】
: 唉。。。老中就是受气的命啊。。 人又少 又不团结 又比较懦弱 在中国连TG都玩
: 不过 怎么可能在外面玩的过白人 还以少胜多 怎么可能？？ 老中唯一的出路 就
: 是像老墨那样一家4，5个那样猛生 没有其他办法 但是老中女又很娇气 又喜欢外F
: 所以老中必然是最被歧视和欺负的一个群体 这个是绝对的
| s*********5
发帖数: 5637 | 60 我承认您讲的都对。您说我的帖是广告贴，那您来谈谈其他具体解决办法？
另外，如果不是SD的，可否去军贴聊？
【在 r****o 的大作中提到】
:
: F
: 人不少 就是懦弱 怕事 娇气 不团结 爱互斗 崇洋媚外 自扫门前雪
| | | r****o
发帖数: 4282 | 61
我什么时候说你的广告贴了???认错人了吧.
【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】
: 我承认您讲的都对。您说我的帖是广告贴，那您来谈谈其他具体解决办法？
: 另外，如果不是SD的，可否去军贴聊？
| r****o
发帖数: 4282 | 62
原来是说那贴啊,我是帮你顶贴而已.
【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】
: 我承认您讲的都对。您说我的帖是广告贴，那您来谈谈其他具体解决办法？
: 另外，如果不是SD的，可否去军贴聊？
| m*****z
发帖数: 1451 | 63 我说的是ucsd的邮箱没收到全校公开信
address
【在 u**********n 的大作中提到】
: 如果你在我们的gmail list里又还没有把ucsdlabrule(at)gmail.com加到你的address
: book的话，请在你的spam或junk folder里找一下。如果还有问题，请把你的email地址
: 再发给我。
: 公开信的内容基本上和这个上贴差不多。
| t*Q
发帖数: 7840 | 64 为争取中国人民在美国解放事业的胜利而努力奋斗！ | s*********5
发帖数: 5637 | 65 见四楼
【在 m*****z 的大作中提到】
: 我说的是ucsd的邮箱没收到全校公开信
:
: address
| S********y
发帖数: 412 | 66 支持80-20,支持所有为这件事情出力出钱的人。我觉得这个结果虽然没有到最让人出气
的效果，但是对校方的努力也算满意了。那些还不满意的人，你还可以继续活动给学校
更大的压力啊，没有人拦着你。说话之前还是先想想自己为这事做过些什么，而别人又
做了些什么。 | m*****z
发帖数: 1451 | 67 我意思是，既然是公开信，怎么我的邮箱没收到？？？
算了。
【在 s*********5 的大作中提到】
: 见四楼
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