w*t
发帖数: 591 | 1 我估计在这个版上知道并真正应用这两个tricks于实战的人不会很多，至少其中一个一
般tax planner 不会建议，更不要提tax report软件了，适用的人群也不会很广，权当
抛砖引玉吧。
First, let me 把自己先摘清除, Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor a CPA, nor
any tax adviser with any license. What I said here is just for information
and entertaining purpose. It is your responsibility to check the truth of
these information, and determine the consequence of filing your tax return
following or not following anything I present here. This is not legal and
tax service I am providing.
Now le |
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 2 Thanks wxt.
The first one is actually addressed by http://tamingamt.appspot.com/tamingamt.html
even though in that tool I only used property tax as an example. The benefit
of the tool is that it calculates exactly how much you can pre-pay (in this
case state income tax) before you hit the AMT cross point (when amt ==
regular) hence maximize your (regular) deduction without hitting amt.
I can update the tool to reflect this tip. It is a great one. |
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 3 你的 income 来源如果主要是 W2
能省的很有限，
那些富人叫很少税的，例如 W Buffet
都不是拿工资的
这一代的人别想了
好好赚钱累积财富，
下一代还有希望做个富人，交很少的税 |
t***s
发帖数: 4666 | 4 对广大年复一年交amt的双硅工来讲意义不大啊。
benefit
this
【在 t*******t 的大作中提到】
: Thanks wxt.
: The first one is actually addressed by http://tamingamt.appspot.com/tamingamt.html
: even though in that tool I only used property tax as an example. The benefit
: of the tool is that it calculates exactly how much you can pre-pay (in this
: case state income tax) before you hit the AMT cross point (when amt ==
: regular) hence maximize your (regular) deduction without hitting amt.
: I can update the tool to reflect this tip. It is a great one.
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 5 do not give up easily.
I know (and you know) we are being screwed.
Some people simply enjoy being screwed because they think there is no way to
turn it around.
I do not enjoy that.
That is the whole point of tamingamt.
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: 你的 income 来源如果主要是 W2
: 能省的很有限，
: 那些富人叫很少税的，例如 W Buffet
: 都不是拿工资的
: 这一代的人别想了
: 好好赚钱累积财富，
: 下一代还有希望做个富人，交很少的税
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 6 Your claim about tax from the rich unfortunately is not true.
Define you 很少 in "那些富人叫很少税的，例如 W Buffet", do you mean by ratio
, or by absolute amount?
If by ratio, I believe a lot of poor people paid 0% tax and some even get
refundable tax credit from US government, if by absolute amount, I believe W
Buffet pays more tax than most people on this board.
Your claim about W2 income has less room to maneuver compared to business
income, is true. But there are still ways, like the ones I just pointed
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: 你的 income 来源如果主要是 W2
: 能省的很有限，
: 那些富人叫很少税的，例如 W Buffet
: 都不是拿工资的
: 这一代的人别想了
: 好好赚钱累积财富，
: 下一代还有希望做个富人，交很少的税
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 7 You tax tool is very convenient and valuable, I've been there and checked it
out. Thanks for the nice job.
But it lacks a functionality of tax planning, and it is not your fault or
any programmer's fault. This comes from the limitation of all tax
calculation tools. Because tax calculation tools are based on "rules", which
rules to apply is too complicate for a program to figure out, especially if
one have to change certain conditions to make him comply with some
alternative rules.
Just in the f
【在 t*******t 的大作中提到】
: Thanks wxt.
: The first one is actually addressed by http://tamingamt.appspot.com/tamingamt.html
: even though in that tool I only used property tax as an example. The benefit
: of the tool is that it calculates exactly how much you can pre-pay (in this
: case state income tax) before you hit the AMT cross point (when amt ==
: regular) hence maximize your (regular) deduction without hitting amt.
: I can update the tool to reflect this tip. It is a great one.
|
s*******e
发帖数: 4188 | 8 move tax around ... 我们大部分人年复一年收入情况都差不多啊，而且明年裁员或是
股票赚一大笔也都是unpredictable的。
deduct commute cost ... you have to incur that cost first. |
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 9 mileage deductions have seen a big increase in IRS tax auditing since the
economy went bad. Last year my CPA told me not to deduct more than 1000
miles, or your risk of being audited went up a lot.
Don't forget the LLC tax.
nor
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: 我估计在这个版上知道并真正应用这两个tricks于实战的人不会很多，至少其中一个一
: 般tax planner 不会建议，更不要提tax report软件了，适用的人群也不会很广，权当
: 抛砖引玉吧。
: First, let me 把自己先摘清除, Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor a CPA, nor
: any tax adviser with any license. What I said here is just for information
: and entertaining purpose. It is your responsibility to check the truth of
: these information, and determine the consequence of filing your tax return
: following or not following anything I present here. This is not legal and
: tax service I am providing.
: Now le
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 10 You don't have to form LLC to do business, do you?
As long as what you do is legal and comply with the rule, you would be fine.
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: mileage deductions have seen a big increase in IRS tax auditing since the
: economy went bad. Last year my CPA told me not to deduct more than 1000
: miles, or your risk of being audited went up a lot.
: Don't forget the LLC tax.
:
: nor
|
|
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 11 For some people, the deduction part can change, like go from rent to own a
house. Don't forget AMT is triggered not only by income, also by deductible.
Usually, you know the time when your options are vested, right?
As for the commute cost, you can take the actual cost, or standard mileage,
which was $0.55 per mile in 2009, if I remember correctly.
As I said in the beginning, this may not benefit every one, all even
majority of the people here. But maybe, one or two lucky ones they happen
not kn
【在 s*******e 的大作中提到】
: move tax around ... 我们大部分人年复一年收入情况都差不多啊，而且明年裁员或是
: 股票赚一大笔也都是unpredictable的。
: deduct commute cost ... you have to incur that cost first.
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 12 for this part
if
if I add a "decision support tree" on top of the tools, would it help?
Like this:
for any person,
if you satisfy these condition: income > x, deduction
tool;
if you satisfy these condition: number of kids > a, number of jobs >b etc
etc, use this tool;
so on and so forth.
it
which
if
letting |
K*******A
发帖数: 821 | 13 1. 对于每年都AMT的人来讲, 没啥经济意义. 况且一还涉及到CASH FLOW. 二搞不好还
整出个PENALTY得不尝失.
2. 那点里码数省下的税钱也就刚好贴补加州$800. 即使不成立LLC,S CORP,不放INCOME
的话最多也就混两三年. 每年省$800 里码税, 省三年. 然后还不够跟IRS折腾操的心多
. 根本不解决问题.
俺的结论, 老老实实的W-2基本没啥好玩的. 那些小把戏还不够操心的. 有那精力多陪
孩子玩玩,多和老板同事SOCIAL一下, 最终获益可能更多. 自然, 有本事开SIDE JOB的
源更好, 那就意味着又能开源又能节流了. |
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 14 其实就是这样。不是说那个税对硅工没意义，而是这么复杂地冒风险
搞坏 cash flow 就为了避掉这么一点税，得不偿失。
投票反对加税倒是正道，虽然能不能反对掉没人能知道，但至少不用
冒任何风险花太多精力。
INCOME
【在 K*******A 的大作中提到】
: 1. 对于每年都AMT的人来讲, 没啥经济意义. 况且一还涉及到CASH FLOW. 二搞不好还
: 整出个PENALTY得不尝失.
: 2. 那点里码数省下的税钱也就刚好贴补加州$800. 即使不成立LLC,S CORP,不放INCOME
: 的话最多也就混两三年. 每年省$800 里码税, 省三年. 然后还不够跟IRS折腾操的心多
: . 根本不解决问题.
: 俺的结论, 老老实实的W-2基本没啥好玩的. 那些小把戏还不够操心的. 有那精力多陪
: 孩子玩玩,多和老板同事SOCIAL一下, 最终获益可能更多. 自然, 有本事开SIDE JOB的
: 源更好, 那就意味着又能开源又能节流了.
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 15 It definitely will help. Most this is not solution for all. You approach
sounds somewhat like a greedy algorithm to me, you assumption is that once
certain criteria is met, following a certain path might be optimal in the
end, which might not always be the case. But definitely it will be more
informative than the current version.
Looks like you are really into it. Hope you become successful on this.
【在 t*******t 的大作中提到】
: for this part
: if
: if I add a "decision support tree" on top of the tools, would it help?
: Like this:
: for any person,
: if you satisfy these condition: income > x, deduction : tool;
: if you satisfy these condition: number of kids > a, number of jobs >b etc
: etc, use this tool;
: so on and so forth.
|
f*****a
发帖数: 781 | 16 AMT下能省税吗？
INCOME
【在 K*******A 的大作中提到】
: 1. 对于每年都AMT的人来讲, 没啥经济意义. 况且一还涉及到CASH FLOW. 二搞不好还
: 整出个PENALTY得不尝失.
: 2. 那点里码数省下的税钱也就刚好贴补加州$800. 即使不成立LLC,S CORP,不放INCOME
: 的话最多也就混两三年. 每年省$800 里码税, 省三年. 然后还不够跟IRS折腾操的心多
: . 根本不解决问题.
: 俺的结论, 老老实实的W-2基本没啥好玩的. 那些小把戏还不够操心的. 有那精力多陪
: 孩子玩玩,多和老板同事SOCIAL一下, 最终获益可能更多. 自然, 有本事开SIDE JOB的
: 源更好, 那就意味着又能开源又能节流了.
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 17 please check your mail box
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: It definitely will help. Most this is not solution for all. You approach
: sounds somewhat like a greedy algorithm to me, you assumption is that once
: certain criteria is met, following a certain path might be optimal in the
: end, which might not always be the case. But definitely it will be more
: informative than the current version.
: Looks like you are really into it. Hope you become successful on this.
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 18 In my case, the tax on the $7000+ mileage deduction is more than $800. But
anyway, you are right, this is not for everybody.
Apparently, I overestimated the desire on saving tax of peoples on this
board, and under estimate people's income, since most people here get AMT
every year. BTW, you do know that if your income goes beyond a certain level
, you wish you could take the AMT instead of regular tax, don't you, I mean
if you want to save a couple bucks of tax.
Anyway, my bad. I'd better stop
【在 K*******A 的大作中提到】
: 1. 对于每年都AMT的人来讲, 没啥经济意义. 况且一还涉及到CASH FLOW. 二搞不好还
: 整出个PENALTY得不尝失.
: 2. 那点里码数省下的税钱也就刚好贴补加州$800. 即使不成立LLC,S CORP,不放INCOME
: 的话最多也就混两三年. 每年省$800 里码税, 省三年. 然后还不够跟IRS折腾操的心多
: . 根本不解决问题.
: 俺的结论, 老老实实的W-2基本没啥好玩的. 那些小把戏还不够操心的. 有那精力多陪
: 孩子玩玩,多和老板同事SOCIAL一下, 最终获益可能更多. 自然, 有本事开SIDE JOB的
: 源更好, 那就意味着又能开源又能节流了.
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 19 如果版上大部分的人都这么想 save tax 的话，那么我保证不会有任何人
去买一线学区入门级的小黑屋。租同样房子能省的钱，比这点 tax 多多了。
连金爷都 49 年加入国民党了 …………
只看到 tax benefit，是不是管中窥豹的代名词啊 ………… // run
But
level
mean
own
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: In my case, the tax on the $7000+ mileage deduction is more than $800. But
: anyway, you are right, this is not for everybody.
: Apparently, I overestimated the desire on saving tax of peoples on this
: board, and under estimate people's income, since most people here get AMT
: every year. BTW, you do know that if your income goes beyond a certain level
: , you wish you could take the AMT instead of regular tax, don't you, I mean
: if you want to save a couple bucks of tax.
: Anyway, my bad. I'd better stop
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 20 anything we do/propose, it is not for everybody.
Some people do not like it does not mean it is meaningless.
thank you for helping people.
But
level
mean
own
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: In my case, the tax on the $7000+ mileage deduction is more than $800. But
: anyway, you are right, this is not for everybody.
: Apparently, I overestimated the desire on saving tax of peoples on this
: board, and under estimate people's income, since most people here get AMT
: every year. BTW, you do know that if your income goes beyond a certain level
: , you wish you could take the AMT instead of regular tax, don't you, I mean
: if you want to save a couple bucks of tax.
: Anyway, my bad. I'd better stop
|
|
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 21 As a matter of fact, I do happen to rent in one of those first line areas of
this region. It is really hard to tell whether buying a house can actually
make you money or earn more return than some other option in the end right
now. But I believe this will be another sensitive topic to the nerve of a
lot of people here.
If I tell you there are better way to leverage your bet up and you can
expect 100% return with limited risk, and it is not equity trading, nobody
would even believe. And you cal
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 如果版上大部分的人都这么想 save tax 的话，那么我保证不会有任何人
: 去买一线学区入门级的小黑屋。租同样房子能省的钱，比这点 tax 多多了。
: 连金爷都 49 年加入国民党了 …………
: 只看到 tax benefit，是不是管中窥豹的代名词啊 ………… // run
:
: But
: level
: mean
: own
|
n***b
发帖数: 5914 | 22 我相信mileage不是关键， 某些工种像地产经纪、sales和私人助理注定要claim很多
mileage,
只要不是把全部收入都claim掉应该还是没问题的, 遇上世道不好， 刚入行的地产经纪
哪怕就是全部
claim掉甚至有loss也不奇怪
the
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: mileage deductions have seen a big increase in IRS tax auditing since the
: economy went bad. Last year my CPA told me not to deduct more than 1000
: miles, or your risk of being audited went up a lot.
: Don't forget the LLC tax.
:
: nor
|
g****8
发帖数: 86 | 23 多谢啊，对有些人真的很有用。比如说要从单职工变到双职工的家庭。
nor
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: 我估计在这个版上知道并真正应用这两个tricks于实战的人不会很多，至少其中一个一
: 般tax planner 不会建议，更不要提tax report软件了，适用的人群也不会很广，权当
: 抛砖引玉吧。
: First, let me 把自己先摘清除, Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor a CPA, nor
: any tax adviser with any license. What I said here is just for information
: and entertaining purpose. It is your responsibility to check the truth of
: these information, and determine the consequence of filing your tax return
: following or not following anything I present here. This is not legal and
: tax service I am providing.
: Now le
|
r****c
发帖数: 2585 | 24 are you sure your tool is correct? it trigger amt even it is 180k for double
income
benefit
this
【在 t*******t 的大作中提到】
: Thanks wxt.
: The first one is actually addressed by http://tamingamt.appspot.com/tamingamt.html
: even though in that tool I only used property tax as an example. The benefit
: of the tool is that it calculates exactly how much you can pre-pay (in this
: case state income tax) before you hit the AMT cross point (when amt ==
: regular) hence maximize your (regular) deduction without hitting amt.
: I can update the tool to reflect this tip. It is a great one.
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 25 copied from http://tamingamt.appspot.com/. Hope it would answer your question.
Are these tools accurate?
No. The tools contain best-effort-guess-data of future tax law, and tax law
is always changing. However, the logic is mostly correct as they were
programmed according to form 1040 and 6251. (but it may contain bugs, in
that case, contact the developer)
Why is my tax in year 2010 so different from that in year 2009?
This is due to the difference of AMT exemption amounts.
AMT Exemption Amount
【在 r****c 的大作中提到】
: are you sure your tool is correct? it trigger amt even it is 180k for double
: income
:
: benefit
: this
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 26 absolutely agree with 本版先知
Grapes, KINGBUGCA , tidewater
了解 IRS tax code 是很有帮助
但是研究了多年，发现节税效果有限，被 audit 机会无穷
省点小钱买 iphone 可以，省大的不容易
另外，有人要和穷人比，你可以放弃硅工高薪
和穷人一样，一年收入就1-2万，2-3万
你喜欢就好
Warren Buffet 交多少税不重要，
你如果认同 progressive tax rate system
他没有理由缴税率比硅工低
就算是奖励投资，也有个上限
我在别的帖子说道
美国的税法是两党共同制定，那是指政治层面
实际上是在富人，财团的影响下制定
你看，IRS 的 1040 publications 有多少？一个书架都放不下
别的国家的所得税 instructions 就 1-2 pages
美国的税法，为了提供富人的减税 loopholes
可以搞出这么多规定，而一般人几乎是无法用着的 |
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 27 hehe, compared with W Buffet, you're the poor guy, but compared with average
Joe, you are most likely to be the rich guy. You logic is really amusing: "
美国的税法，为了提供富人的减税 loopholes,可以搞出这么多规定，而一般人几乎是
无法用着的", on the other hand, even if some one point out some "loopholes"
that you can use, you "发现节税效果有限，被 audit 机会无穷, 省点小钱买
iphone 可以，省大的不容易", you sure your way of saving tax is legal in the
first place? If it is, why do you care if you get audited or not?
"省点小钱买 iphone 可以，省大的不容易"? Your iphone costs $30
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: absolutely agree with 本版先知
: Grapes, KINGBUGCA , tidewater
: 了解 IRS tax code 是很有帮助
: 但是研究了多年，发现节税效果有限，被 audit 机会无穷
: 省点小钱买 iphone 可以，省大的不容易
: 另外，有人要和穷人比，你可以放弃硅工高薪
: 和穷人一样，一年收入就1-2万，2-3万
: 你喜欢就好
: Warren Buffet 交多少税不重要，
: 你如果认同 progressive tax rate system
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 28 couples living seperately and each with a kid can save huge tax. a friend of
mine did it when he was in sf while the wife was in boston. I don't know
anyone taking that advantage by living togehter divorced. I guess there is
certain amount of auditing risk there.
average
"
"
the
saved
.
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: hehe, compared with W Buffet, you're the poor guy, but compared with average
: Joe, you are most likely to be the rich guy. You logic is really amusing: "
: 美国的税法，为了提供富人的减税 loopholes,可以搞出这么多规定，而一般人几乎是
: 无法用着的", on the other hand, even if some one point out some "loopholes"
: that you can use, you "发现节税效果有限，被 audit 机会无穷, 省点小钱买
: iphone 可以，省大的不容易", you sure your way of saving tax is legal in the
: first place? If it is, why do you care if you get audited or not?
: "省点小钱买 iphone 可以，省大的不容易"? Your iphone costs $30
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 29 Ones again, for some lazy people, at least you are not rude:
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch02.html#en_US_publink1000170738
This is the publication from IRS explicitly specify what status a file
should use:
Quote starts:
Divorced persons. If you are divorced under a final decree by the last
day of the year, you are considered unmarried for the whole year.
Divorce and remarriage. If you obtain a divorce in one year for the sole
purpose of filing tax returns as unmarried individuals, a
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: couples living seperately and each with a kid can save huge tax. a friend of
: mine did it when he was in sf while the wife was in boston. I don't know
: anyone taking that advantage by living togehter divorced. I guess there is
: certain amount of auditing risk there.
:
: average
: "
: "
: the
: saved
|
b*******r
发帖数: 6655 | 30 It might work for the first year to deduct $7000 commuting cost from $10
business income, but you certainly have the burden of proving your
profit motive. In another word, your business expenses deduction can
only be as much as your business income. Anything more than that is not
sustainable.
As far as the hassle of audit, if you only have a few W-2, it's a piece
of cake and IRS will never bother. But if you have tons of weird
business/deductions as you mentioned, I don't see how you can get awa
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: 我估计在这个版上知道并真正应用这两个tricks于实战的人不会很多，至少其中一个一
: 般tax planner 不会建议，更不要提tax report软件了，适用的人群也不会很广，权当
: 抛砖引玉吧。
: First, let me 把自己先摘清除, Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor a CPA, nor
: any tax adviser with any license. What I said here is just for information
: and entertaining purpose. It is your responsibility to check the truth of
: these information, and determine the consequence of filing your tax return
: following or not following anything I present here. This is not legal and
: tax service I am providing.
: Now le
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|
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B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 31 勇敢啊 。。。
IRS 是可以先关你起来，再上法庭
Also, if one does not do bad things, why are they afraid of being audited?
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: Ones again, for some lazy people, at least you are not rude:
: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch02.html#en_US_publink1000170738
: This is the publication from IRS explicitly specify what status a file
: should use:
: Quote starts:
: Divorced persons. If you are divorced under a final decree by the last
: day of the year, you are considered unmarried for the whole year.
: Divorce and remarriage. If you obtain a divorce in one year for the sole
: purpose of filing tax returns as unmarried individuals, a
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 32 You still didn't get it. That is not a business deduction. For the
business, you profit $10, no cost, no loss. Actually, this is a profitable
business, although not huge. The mileage deduction is itemized deduction
you file in schedule A and that's why it has a 2% AGI exclusion and a limit
if you are high income earner.
You are allowed to deduct any job related cost not reimbursed by your
employer, mileage is one of them if you have to commute from job to job.
Get it?
【在 b*******r 的大作中提到】
: It might work for the first year to deduct $7000 commuting cost from $10
: business income, but you certainly have the burden of proving your
: profit motive. In another word, your business expenses deduction can
: only be as much as your business income. Anything more than that is not
: sustainable.
: As far as the hassle of audit, if you only have a few W-2, it's a piece
: of cake and IRS will never bother. But if you have tons of weird
: business/deductions as you mentioned, I don't see how you can get awa
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 33 I dont know anyone who did it. that's all the fact I can say.
the rest are speculations.
If you know anyone who did it successfully, I'm all ears.
you
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: Ones again, for some lazy people, at least you are not rude:
: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch02.html#en_US_publink1000170738
: This is the publication from IRS explicitly specify what status a file
: should use:
: Quote starts:
: Divorced persons. If you are divorced under a final decree by the last
: day of the year, you are considered unmarried for the whole year.
: Divorce and remarriage. If you obtain a divorce in one year for the sole
: purpose of filing tax returns as unmarried individuals, a
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 34 你以为在中国？
You don't even want to believe the publications from IRS itself, what can I
say. Actually, thank you for your contribution, and that having more people
like you probably would be the only way for US to pay down its deficit and
pay back actually what it owes to China.
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: 勇敢啊 。。。
: IRS 是可以先关你起来，再上法庭
:
: Also, if one does not do bad things, why are they afraid of being audited?
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 35 你不知道 IRS 的权利有多大，就不要乱说
要不，你自己试试
在 BlackTee (blk) 的大作中提到: 】
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: 你以为在中国？
: You don't even want to believe the publications from IRS itself, what can I
: say. Actually, thank you for your contribution, and that having more people
: like you probably would be the only way for US to pay down its deficit and
: pay back actually what it owes to China.
|
b*******r
发帖数: 6655 | 36 I got you. But I doubt you can convince auditor that this is
"the ordinary and necessary expenses of going from one workplace (away
from the residence) to another"
If you do something for the sole purpose of tax deduction, i.e. no other
substantial motive, it is a red alarm to IRS.
profitable
deduction
limit
job.
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: You still didn't get it. That is not a business deduction. For the
: business, you profit $10, no cost, no loss. Actually, this is a profitable
: business, although not huge. The mileage deduction is itemized deduction
: you file in schedule A and that's why it has a 2% AGI exclusion and a limit
: if you are high income earner.
: You are allowed to deduct any job related cost not reimbursed by your
: employer, mileage is one of them if you have to commute from job to job.
: Get it?
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 37 LZ 的例子（2）是不对的
你的 small business that does neighborhood-watch
是属于 schedule C
收入 $10
mileage deduction $7150
好样的，biz loss offsets W2 income 是最容易被 audit
不信，你试试
假如你的 mileage expenses 放在 form 2106
你的 side job (neighborhood-watch) 必须给你 W2,很麻烦地
没有 W2? 等着被 audit
完毕 |
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 38 for people who is scared of IRS, here is a book you can read
Standup to the IRS
http://www.amazon.com/Stand-LL-M-Frederick-Daily-J-D/dp/1413309224/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279165576&sr=8-1-spell
know the truth from myth and do not exaggerate
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: 你不知道 IRS 的权利有多大，就不要乱说
: 要不，你自己试试
:
: 在 BlackTee (blk) 的大作中提到: 】
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 39 我还以这么多勇者
以为读了一两本书
就练就18般武艺，挑战 IRS
说说，这里有多少人曾经和 IRS 打过交道的？ |
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 40 Do you know the history of this divorce and remarry rule? Why it gets into
the publication in the first place? That was because in 70's, there is real
marriage penalties, now actually the marriage penalty is much less thanks
to Bush. Anyway, because of this reason, a lot of people did divorce by the
end of year and re-marry quickly after that. This is unacceptable to IRS,
because technically, you can get divorce on 12/31 and remarry on Jan 1st
every year to avoid marriage penalty. Here comes t
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: I dont know anyone who did it. that's all the fact I can say.
: the rest are speculations.
: If you know anyone who did it successfully, I'm all ears.
:
: you
|
|
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B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 41 你的 employer 可没 requires you to come to work after you watch the house of
customer A. 你怎能说这个 commute 是 job related?
profitable
limit
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: You still didn't get it. That is not a business deduction. For the
: business, you profit $10, no cost, no loss. Actually, this is a profitable
: business, although not huge. The mileage deduction is itemized deduction
: you file in schedule A and that's why it has a 2% AGI exclusion and a limit
: if you are high income earner.
: You are allowed to deduct any job related cost not reimbursed by your
: employer, mileage is one of them if you have to commute from job to job.
: Get it?
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 42 Look up above. I just explained it. The driving is not part of the business,
so it is necver and should never be counted as business expenses and deduct
from you company profit. Actually, it happens between you perform your job
as a self employee and an employee from your regular worked-for-company. It
should be put in schedule A as itemized deduction, which is perfectly legit
and explicitly allowed by IRS.
Again, go ask any tax lawyer and see what the chance is to win this case if
IRS dare to
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: LZ 的例子（2）是不对的
: 你的 small business that does neighborhood-watch
: 是属于 schedule C
: 收入 $10
: mileage deduction $7150
: 好样的，biz loss offsets W2 income 是最容易被 audit
: 不信，你试试
: 假如你的 mileage expenses 放在 form 2106
: 你的 side job (neighborhood-watch) 必须给你 W2,很麻烦地
: 没有 W2? 等着被 audit
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 43 Again, for lazy people:
The following paragraph comes from IRS publication: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch04.html#d0e3082
Two places of work. If you work at two places in one day, whether or not
for the same employer, you can deduct the expense of getting from one
workplace to the other. However, if for some personal reason you do not go
directly from one location to the other, you cannot deduct more than the
amount it would have cost you to go directly from the first location to the
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: 你的 employer 可没 requires you to come to work after you watch the house of
: customer A. 你怎能说这个 commute 是 job related?
:
: profitable
: limit
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 44 请参考 #41 #36
你省的几万税，可能要送给你的 lawyer
即使你打赢了，值得么？
打输了呢？
我说话是比较戏剧化
你的贡献，我万分敬佩
不懂税法，应该了解税，你提供很多宝贵 info
但是，能省的，我都 try 过啦，
最后省小钱，花大钱 。。。
IRS dare to sue you in the first place.
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: Again, for lazy people:
: The following paragraph comes from IRS publication: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch04.html#d0e3082
: Two places of work. If you work at two places in one day, whether or not
: for the same employer, you can deduct the expense of getting from one
: workplace to the other. However, if for some personal reason you do not go
: directly from one location to the other, you cannot deduct more than the
: amount it would have cost you to go directly from the first location to the
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 45 请参考the reply right above your post and the IRS publication on this issue.
if |
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 46 双硅大多数住南湾或怕了尔托，很少去客户那边，deduct 啥子 mileage？
the
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: Again, for lazy people:
: The following paragraph comes from IRS publication: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch04.html#d0e3082
: Two places of work. If you work at two places in one day, whether or not
: for the same employer, you can deduct the expense of getting from one
: workplace to the other. However, if for some personal reason you do not go
: directly from one location to the other, you cannot deduct more than the
: amount it would have cost you to go directly from the first location to the
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 47 For the quote you give, the rule prevents you from claiming say $1000 a day
for a trip from Pleasanton to San Jose, let's say, claiming you always use
helicoptor to get there. The expense I claim is the standard deduction given
by IRS and if I didn't exaggerate the actual mileage from "one workplace (
away from the residence) to another", I am completely comply with this rule.
【在 b*******r 的大作中提到】
: I got you. But I doubt you can convince auditor that this is
: "the ordinary and necessary expenses of going from one workplace (away
: from the residence) to another"
: If you do something for the sole purpose of tax deduction, i.e. no other
: substantial motive, it is a red alarm to IRS.
:
: profitable
: deduction
: limit
: job.
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 48 Did you even read my original post? I know a couple of 双硅住San Ramon and
drive to PA daily, I think the mileage is more than 25 mile one way 了吧？
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 双硅大多数住南湾或怕了尔托，很少去客户那边，deduct 啥子 mileage？
:
: the
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 49 i c
反正俺不跑那么远，跟俺无关。转金爷和幸福屯批阅 …………
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: Did you even read my original post? I know a couple of 双硅住San Ramon and
: drive to PA daily, I think the mileage is more than 25 mile one way 了吧？
|
K*******A
发帖数: 821 | 50 楼主同学不要这么激动嘛. 大家探讨问题.
简单讲, 从家开车到公司上班, 这是这里W-2家庭的常态, 这个肯定是没法抵扣的.
当然, 如果在家门口帮人看好夜场PUB,转身又去当硅公的, 这之间的里码数是可以抵的
. 前提也是看场子是为了挣钱,要有谋利的企图和努力,而且最终要见到扎实的收入.这
种生活方式不是普遍现象. 容易误导广大W-2们.
基本上CPA不会帮仅仅W-2收入的人想办法节税. 因为根本没空间, 挤出的那点税钱还不
如倒腾几个IPAD来得快来得风险小. IRS 在过去两年间已经加大力度在某些问题点上.
个人和小公司, 一旦被选中, 轻着事无巨细的你老得准备好材料. 重者面谈罚款利息折
腾你半年不算久. 当然, IRS也有成本和效益原则, 太瘦的猪是不会被选择出栏的.
还是那句, W-2的同学们,省税空间有限,可以少操心这部分了. |
|
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g*******t
发帖数: 1039 | |
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 52 如果倒腾的那几个IPAD的盈利你没报税，我估计被查到的话问题会比IRS认定你都已经
报了盈利的small business不算你的工作引起的tax problem大的多。
如果是我的话我会把买卖IPAD或其他什么电器作为peosonal business，suppose 这个
东西真能盈利，而且你也真以盈利为目的， 你在邮局租一信箱，然后你早晚到邮局各
去一次取信加寄件， 或邮局一次，BestBuy/Apple Store 一次，然后不用neighbor-
watch就qualify for business 了。
W-2家庭的常态就是每天上班，年底把所有数字往TerboTax里一输，以为就是最好的报
税方式。
而且一般W2报税极其简单，没有多少收据之类，如果真规规矩矩报税，根本不用怕审计
。我就被审计过，来一封信，问一行为什么这么报，他觉得不对，要改， 我回一封信
，附上我认为我是对的的根据，问题就解决了， 什么大不了的事。
还是那句话，很多人可以因为别人做假没被IRS抓住就放心作假或漏报，例如不报那些
IPAD倒卖收入，但真正合法的空子因为没听到别人钻过就不敢做。
只有W2收入，
【在 K*******A 的大作中提到】
: 楼主同学不要这么激动嘛. 大家探讨问题.
: 简单讲, 从家开车到公司上班, 这是这里W-2家庭的常态, 这个肯定是没法抵扣的.
: 当然, 如果在家门口帮人看好夜场PUB,转身又去当硅公的, 这之间的里码数是可以抵的
: . 前提也是看场子是为了挣钱,要有谋利的企图和努力,而且最终要见到扎实的收入.这
: 种生活方式不是普遍现象. 容易误导广大W-2们.
: 基本上CPA不会帮仅仅W-2收入的人想办法节税. 因为根本没空间, 挤出的那点税钱还不
: 如倒腾几个IPAD来得快来得风险小. IRS 在过去两年间已经加大力度在某些问题点上.
: 个人和小公司, 一旦被选中, 轻着事无巨细的你老得准备好材料. 重者面谈罚款利息折
: 腾你半年不算久. 当然, IRS也有成本和效益原则, 太瘦的猪是不会被选择出栏的.
: 还是那句, W-2的同学们,省税空间有限,可以少操心这部分了.
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 53 老兄，KINGBUGCA 说的是“挤出的那点税钱还不如倒腾几个IPAD
来得快来得风险小”，其实就是一个虚拟语气的说法。这里双硅
工没有谁有闲工夫去倒腾 IPAD，还每天跑两次邮局，穷学生倒是
还有可能。
老兄您的税法知识不错，不过给硅工们普及报税知识就可惜了，硅
工们的税实在倒腾的空间不大。我觉得您不如给 real estate agent
之类的报税，那个能省的多得多了，您老也有的赚啊 …………
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: 如果倒腾的那几个IPAD的盈利你没报税，我估计被查到的话问题会比IRS认定你都已经
: 报了盈利的small business不算你的工作引起的tax problem大的多。
: 如果是我的话我会把买卖IPAD或其他什么电器作为peosonal business，suppose 这个
: 东西真能盈利，而且你也真以盈利为目的， 你在邮局租一信箱，然后你早晚到邮局各
: 去一次取信加寄件， 或邮局一次，BestBuy/Apple Store 一次，然后不用neighbor-
: watch就qualify for business 了。
: W-2家庭的常态就是每天上班，年底把所有数字往TerboTax里一输，以为就是最好的报
: 税方式。
: 而且一般W2报税极其简单，没有多少收据之类，如果真规规矩矩报税，根本不用怕审计
: 。我就被审计过，来一封信，问一行为什么这么报，他觉得不对，要改， 我回一封信
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 54 agree. wxt's knowledge is under-utilized if it is only used here.
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 老兄，KINGBUGCA 说的是“挤出的那点税钱还不如倒腾几个IPAD
: 来得快来得风险小”，其实就是一个虚拟语气的说法。这里双硅
: 工没有谁有闲工夫去倒腾 IPAD，还每天跑两次邮局，穷学生倒是
: 还有可能。
: 老兄您的税法知识不错，不过给硅工们普及报税知识就可惜了，硅
: 工们的税实在倒腾的空间不大。我觉得您不如给 real estate agent
: 之类的报税，那个能省的多得多了，您老也有的赚啊 …………
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 55 couples living seperately 是可以两个 claim 成 head of household，
因为满足 irs 的 consdier unmarried 的条件。
不过 save 的 tax 也不是 huge，只是在 living together 的夫妇看起来
huge 的万把块钱而已。两地分居的夫妇，为了交配一次就得少则一大桶汽
油，多则一张飞机票。^m^ 更不要说付两个 mortgage / property tax 了。
其实还是赚不着 …………
of
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: couples living seperately and each with a kid can save huge tax. a friend of
: mine did it when he was in sf while the wife was in boston. I don't know
: anyone taking that advantage by living togehter divorced. I guess there is
: certain amount of auditing risk there.
:
: average
: "
: "
: the
: saved
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 56 那就各自就近觅食呗
既省钱又享受
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: couples living seperately 是可以两个 claim 成 head of household，
: 因为满足 irs 的 consdier unmarried 的条件。
: 不过 save 的 tax 也不是 huge，只是在 living together 的夫妇看起来
: huge 的万把块钱而已。两地分居的夫妇，为了交配一次就得少则一大桶汽
: 油，多则一张飞机票。^m^ 更不要说付两个 mortgage / property tax 了。
: 其实还是赚不着 …………
:
: of
|
n***b
发帖数: 5914 | 57 file两个地址，然后 sub-lease其中一个出去
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: couples living seperately 是可以两个 claim 成 head of household，
: 因为满足 irs 的 consdier unmarried 的条件。
: 不过 save 的 tax 也不是 huge，只是在 living together 的夫妇看起来
: huge 的万把块钱而已。两地分居的夫妇，为了交配一次就得少则一大桶汽
: 油，多则一张飞机票。^m^ 更不要说付两个 mortgage / property tax 了。
: 其实还是赚不着 …………
:
: of
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 58 光 unmarried 没有用，得 claim 成 head of household 才有
benefit。要 claim head of household 得付大于一半的房子
的 cost，外加每人带一个小孩。这样就一定得买两个房子，
分别是每个人的 primary residence，实际上不能住一起。
另外，对于 250k 的双硅带小孩，你问问大家是想买一幢怕了
尔托的小黑屋自住呢，还是买两幢百里爱莎烂学区的小黑屋自
住 …………
真要这么干，估计怎么也得是年收入 500k 的特高级双硅，搞
上两幢怕了尔托的小黑屋，然后还外加骗骗 irs …………
you
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: Ones again, for some lazy people, at least you are not rude:
: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch02.html#en_US_publink1000170738
: This is the publication from IRS explicitly specify what status a file
: should use:
: Quote starts:
: Divorced persons. If you are divorced under a final decree by the last
: day of the year, you are considered unmarried for the whole year.
: Divorce and remarriage. If you obtain a divorce in one year for the sole
: purpose of filing tax returns as unmarried individuals, a
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 59 IRS Head of Household 的定义的第二条：
2) You paid more than half the cost of keeping up a home for
the year.
要 claim 两个 head of house hold，两个人得分别住在两个房子里，
各自付大于一半的房子的 cost。
rental 出去自己不住在里面可能会有问题，那个估计只能当成
investment property，不算 home ………… 当然你可以骗 irs，
只要不被抓 …………
LP 睡觉了，估计伊不感兴趣这个。俺这个门外汉来灌水聊天 …………
【在 n***b 的大作中提到】
: file两个地址，然后 sub-lease其中一个出去
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 60 赞！
估计此时牛腩面正内牛满面中 ………… // run
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: 那就各自就近觅食呗
: 既省钱又享受
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n***b
发帖数: 5914 | 61 IRS应该没有那个人力去调查两个地址吧，
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: IRS Head of Household 的定义的第二条：
: 2) You paid more than half the cost of keeping up a home for
: the year.
: 要 claim 两个 head of house hold，两个人得分别住在两个房子里，
: 各自付大于一半的房子的 cost。
: rental 出去自己不住在里面可能会有问题，那个估计只能当成
: investment property，不算 home ………… 当然你可以骗 irs，
: 只要不被抓 …………
: LP 睡觉了，估计伊不感兴趣这个。俺这个门外汉来灌水聊天 …………
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 62 IRS 当然不会有钱去查每个人滴。不过米帝这边对付欺诈的法律
通常是杀一儆百，好比三藩 Muni 查票，大部分没被查到的啥事
都没有。至于 rp 不行被查到了，那怎么个罚法，俺不知道。谁有
兴趣去查查过去的法院相关判例啥的 …………
【在 n***b 的大作中提到】
: IRS应该没有那个人力去调查两个地址吧，
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 63 不过其实也不是不能搞，像 wxt 的可以考虑在一线学区租两个
连号的 apartment，所有条件都满足，也用不着为了上个床啥的
浪费汽油费，轻轻松松省下一大笔税 ………… |
n***b
发帖数: 5914 | 64 连号的单位很明显是fraud啊, 借住在远处的朋友的地址收手机帐单来作证明就合理的
多了, lol
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 不过其实也不是不能搞，像 wxt 的可以考虑在一线学区租两个
: 连号的 apartment，所有条件都满足，也用不着为了上个床啥的
: 浪费汽油费，轻轻松松省下一大笔税 …………
|
K*******A
发帖数: 821 | 65 天边同学, 你那不叫被审计.下次被审计后再来这里交流经验教训吧.
整几个IPAD, 跑几趟BESTBUY就叫SMALL BUSINESS, 就能扣你那$7000里码数了? 税法上
的HOBBY 建议你学习一哈.
ANYWAY, 贡献TIPS是非常欢迎的. 但尽量不要误导.
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: 如果倒腾的那几个IPAD的盈利你没报税，我估计被查到的话问题会比IRS认定你都已经
: 报了盈利的small business不算你的工作引起的tax problem大的多。
: 如果是我的话我会把买卖IPAD或其他什么电器作为peosonal business，suppose 这个
: 东西真能盈利，而且你也真以盈利为目的， 你在邮局租一信箱，然后你早晚到邮局各
: 去一次取信加寄件， 或邮局一次，BestBuy/Apple Store 一次，然后不用neighbor-
: watch就qualify for business 了。
: W-2家庭的常态就是每天上班，年底把所有数字往TerboTax里一输，以为就是最好的报
: 税方式。
: 而且一般W2报税极其简单，没有多少收据之类，如果真规规矩矩报税，根本不用怕审计
: 。我就被审计过，来一封信，问一行为什么这么报，他觉得不对，要改， 我回一封信
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 66 连号也是合法避税吧，住在这个号的 apartment，时而不是得去隔壁
打打炮，不会影响住在这个号的 primary residence 的 status 吧。
当然，可能要 divorce，还有就是多付 apartment rental 的钱。
借手机账单的情况，万一 irs 派个人去 apartment 随访呢？
当然，不搞两个房子，一个弄成 Head of Household，另一个弄成
single，可能也能省点税，不过省不了多少，还得 divorce。得有
旺盛的精力才能去 z-turn 那些玩意儿。
【在 n***b 的大作中提到】
: 连号的单位很明显是fraud啊, 借住在远处的朋友的地址收手机帐单来作证明就合理的
: 多了, lol
|
m******3
发帖数: 983 | 67 CPA confirmed the second one is definitely a tax fraud. You claim $10 income
and you deduct hundreds or thousands of mileage. IRS will definitely go
after you.
AMT is very complicated, it is so funny, someone is offering so called
tricks to help people to reduce AMT and disclaim he/she is not a CPA, tax
attorney or tax advisor. |
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 68 This is the best reply of all in my opinion on this thread because the information is true and the argument is valid.
I think if you want to live together and both claim house of head, there needs to be some creativity, not necessary fraud.
Here is one possible solution, one party keeps the house, pay mortgage and PT, etc, and the other pay the rent to the other and occupy the guest room, if there happens to have one.
If two single mothers (with no relations, their kids have no relations, either
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 光 unmarried 没有用，得 claim 成 head of household 才有
: benefit。要 claim head of household 得付大于一半的房子
: 的 cost，外加每人带一个小孩。这样就一定得买两个房子，
: 分别是每个人的 primary residence，实际上不能住一起。
: 另外，对于 250k 的双硅带小孩，你问问大家是想买一幢怕了
: 尔托的小黑屋自住呢，还是买两幢百里爱莎烂学区的小黑屋自
: 住 …………
: 真要这么干，估计怎么也得是年收入 500k 的特高级双硅，搞
: 上两幢怕了尔托的小黑屋，然后还外加骗骗 irs …………
:
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w*t
发帖数: 591 | 69 No, I never said you should deduct your mileage as business income in any
case. Any one who has at least any knowledge of US tax, should know the
difference between putting a deduction in Schedule A and Schedule C or E.
For IPAD thing, you can claim it is either a hobby or a small business and
treat it as properly. And you can choose either way to your benefit. My
point is as any ethical and good tax adviser should tell you that even if
you treat this as a hobby, you should put the profit you
【在 K*******A 的大作中提到】
: 天边同学, 你那不叫被审计.下次被审计后再来这里交流经验教训吧.
: 整几个IPAD, 跑几趟BESTBUY就叫SMALL BUSINESS, 就能扣你那$7000里码数了? 税法上
: 的HOBBY 建议你学习一哈.
: ANYWAY, 贡献TIPS是非常欢迎的. 但尽量不要误导.
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 70 Based on your reply and the reason that this would not work, I have to say,
you either have a lousy CPA, or you didn't present the question right in the
first place.
Some times it is the same thing, but depending on the way a question is
asked, you get completely different answers, try ask these two questions to
any priest and see what the answer are:
a: Can I think about XXOO the beautiful wife of my neighbor when I am making
a confession to God?
b: Can I make a confession to God when I was thi |
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f*****i
发帖数: 3558 | 71 看你们讨论的热火朝天的，突然想起来，如果两个人都各有一个primary residence，
然后结婚了，但是两个房子都还是keep着的，没有租出去。。。那算税的时候还是可以
两个都deduct mortgage interests/property tax吗？ |
t***s
发帖数: 4666 | 72 does a home equal a house?
how about a poor single parent rents one or two rooms in a house?
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: IRS Head of Household 的定义的第二条：
: 2) You paid more than half the cost of keeping up a home for
: the year.
: 要 claim 两个 head of house hold，两个人得分别住在两个房子里，
: 各自付大于一半的房子的 cost。
: rental 出去自己不住在里面可能会有问题，那个估计只能当成
: investment property，不算 home ………… 当然你可以骗 irs，
: 只要不被抓 …………
: LP 睡觉了，估计伊不感兴趣这个。俺这个门外汉来灌水聊天 …………
|
t***s
发帖数: 4666 | 73 这怎么就fraud了？
【在 n***b 的大作中提到】
: 连号的单位很明显是fraud啊, 借住在远处的朋友的地址收手机帐单来作证明就合理的
: 多了, lol
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 74 Again, I'm not CPA, nor tax adviser, so I don't take liabilities of my
answers.
But, yes, you can deduct those through itemized deduction.
I assume you file joint return, right? If you file married file separately
you need to be careful that only the house owner, mortgage holder and the
actual person who pays them can claim for such deduction in his/her own
return.
【在 f*****i 的大作中提到】
: 看你们讨论的热火朝天的，突然想起来，如果两个人都各有一个primary residence，
: 然后结婚了，但是两个房子都还是keep着的，没有租出去。。。那算税的时候还是可以
: 两个都deduct mortgage interests/property tax吗？
|
t***s
发帖数: 4666 | 75 yes, but subject to the same $1.1M limit.
【在 f*****i 的大作中提到】
: 看你们讨论的热火朝天的，突然想起来，如果两个人都各有一个primary residence，
: 然后结婚了，但是两个房子都还是keep着的，没有租出去。。。那算税的时候还是可以
: 两个都deduct mortgage interests/property tax吗？
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 76 mortgage of both primary and secondary residence can be tax deductible
【在 f*****i 的大作中提到】
: 看你们讨论的热火朝天的，突然想起来，如果两个人都各有一个primary residence，
: 然后结婚了，但是两个房子都还是keep着的，没有租出去。。。那算税的时候还是可以
: 两个都deduct mortgage interests/property tax吗？
|
f*****i
发帖数: 3558 | |
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | |
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 79 This is a tricky part. I have the same comment in one of my earlier post and
have a feeling that this should be OK. But IRS has not explicitly
addressing this in its publications as far as I know.
It does give out a calculation table for calculating the expense, and it has
mortgage, PT and rent etc in it and it explicitly says the clothing and
food does not qualify.
As a side note, since we are now on head of household status. Some people
know that if you file as resident (1040 instead of 1040N
【在 t***s 的大作中提到】
: does a home equal a house?
: how about a poor single parent rents one or two rooms in a house?
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 80 呵呵，我玩税法只是找其中漏洞，图个好玩。要靠这个去赚钱，得先去考个CPA，要赚
这里老中的钱，那不是饿死就是累死。如果只是报税，只要识字会加减乘除就行，如果
要 tax planning, 你二十万的收入我帮你省1-2万的税钱顶了天了，你分我5000 你自
己都会觉得亏得慌，而这5000一万的钱我还真看不上，上哪划拉一下就有了。
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 老兄，KINGBUGCA 说的是“挤出的那点税钱还不如倒腾几个IPAD
: 来得快来得风险小”，其实就是一个虚拟语气的说法。这里双硅
: 工没有谁有闲工夫去倒腾 IPAD，还每天跑两次邮局，穷学生倒是
: 还有可能。
: 老兄您的税法知识不错，不过给硅工们普及报税知识就可惜了，硅
: 工们的税实在倒腾的空间不大。我觉得您不如给 real estate agent
: 之类的报税，那个能省的多得多了，您老也有的赚啊 …………
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k*****r
发帖数: 1435 | 81 记得巴菲特说自己税率在17%左右，比他秘书都低，他也觉得不大公平 |
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 82 That's because most of his income came from qualified dividend and some are
from long term capital gain.
As a matter of fact, there is a high possibility that both of these income
will see a rate hike this year or next year.
The rational behind income from qualified dividend and long term capital
gain enjoys less tax rate than regular income is mainly to offset the "
double tax" of business income: namely the profit gets taxed at corporate
tax at first and then taxed again as personal income tax
【在 k*****r 的大作中提到】
: 记得巴菲特说自己税率在17%左右，比他秘书都低，他也觉得不大公平
|
g****8
发帖数: 86 | 83 关于今年多交state tax,明年多交的部分会被当成taxable income,总之这部分钱是要
交税的，要么按今年的tax rate,要么按明年的tax rate. 按lz的方法，今年的没有AMT
,那部分钱要用最高的bracket, 假设33%， 而明年的tax rate 是28%，AMT的情况，所
省的钱也就是5%， 如果算上多交这笔钱的利息的话，省的就更少了，是不是就不值这
个麻烦了。不知我理解的对不对
但提前交property tax是肯定能省不少 |
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 84 Yes, you are right.
In normal cases, you will get your state return back by June 30th, if you
file early enough. So the time you lost the interest of this money is at
most half year.
Even without compound interest, let me know if you can get a CD at 10% APR
after tax. :)
AMT
【在 g****8 的大作中提到】
: 关于今年多交state tax,明年多交的部分会被当成taxable income,总之这部分钱是要
: 交税的，要么按今年的tax rate,要么按明年的tax rate. 按lz的方法，今年的没有AMT
: ,那部分钱要用最高的bracket, 假设33%， 而明年的tax rate 是28%，AMT的情况，所
: 省的钱也就是5%， 如果算上多交这笔钱的利息的话，省的就更少了，是不是就不值这
: 个麻烦了。不知我理解的对不对
: 但提前交property tax是肯定能省不少
|
g****8
发帖数: 86 | 85 当然没有10%的CD喽。所以如果多交state tax那一年的最高的bracket就比较重要，如
果只是28%的话，还是不要折腾了。
Married Filing Jointly 2010
# 10% on the income between $0 and $16,750
# 15% on the income between $16,750 and $68,000; plus $1,675
# 25% on the income between $68,000 and $137,300; plus $9,362.50
# 28% on the income between $137,300 and $209,250; plus $26,687.50
# 33% on the income between $209,250 and $373,650; plus $46,833.50
# 35% on the income over $373,650; plus $101,085.50
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: Yes, you are right.
: In normal cases, you will get your state return back by June 30th, if you
: file early enough. So the time you lost the interest of this money is at
: most half year.
: Even without compound interest, let me know if you can get a CD at 10% APR
: after tax. :)
:
: AMT
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 86 任何 mortgage interest / property tax 只能 deduct 一次，不能
两边都 deduct，不管何种 filing status。
上面讨论的是能不能 file 成两个 head of household 来省税，
您没有看懂的说 …………
【在 f*****i 的大作中提到】
: 看你们讨论的热火朝天的，突然想起来，如果两个人都各有一个primary residence，
: 然后结婚了，但是两个房子都还是keep着的，没有租出去。。。那算税的时候还是可以
: 两个都deduct mortgage interests/property tax吗？
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 87 收房租的要交税，付房租的不能抵税 ………… 还不如买大地房造一个
detached in-law unit，要安全多了。
否则搞太复杂，把 IRS 被逼疯了的话，去打算问陪审团这个复杂的情况到底是
属于 one home 还是 two homes 的这样一个事实性问题。如果法院打算受理的
话，那么估计搞这个 z-turn 的得准备律师费先 …………
information is true and the argument is valid.
needs to be some creativity, not necessary fraud.
PT, etc, and the other pay the rent to the other and occupy the guest room,
if there happens to have one.
either), rent and share a three bed-room apartment, and keep their expense
separate, can they each claim head of househo
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: This is the best reply of all in my opinion on this thread because the information is true and the argument is valid.
: I think if you want to live together and both claim house of head, there needs to be some creativity, not necessary fraud.
: Here is one possible solution, one party keeps the house, pay mortgage and PT, etc, and the other pay the rent to the other and occupy the guest room, if there happens to have one.
: If two single mothers (with no relations, their kids have no relations, either
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 88 房租的多少是租户和房东定的。如果住一个SFH就算一个home的话，合租apartment的都
不能报head of household。这个判例的影响将是巨大的，我估计这个官司都可以打到
最高法院。IRS会考虑他们的成本，要知道IRS实际上也是个business，如果一个lawyer
陪你玩一个月，他从你这儿追回的一万五的税（把一个人的status改成single）还不够
他工资。而即便是他赢，这个最多是honest mistake，你补交差额加利息（比信用卡的
低多了）就行，如果差额巨大，你还可以negotiate，往往交个一部分就行了。
room,
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 收房租的要交税，付房租的不能抵税 ………… 还不如买大地房造一个
: detached in-law unit，要安全多了。
: 否则搞太复杂，把 IRS 被逼疯了的话，去打算问陪审团这个复杂的情况到底是
: 属于 one home 还是 two homes 的这样一个事实性问题。如果法院打算受理的
: 话，那么估计搞这个 z-turn 的得准备律师费先 …………
:
: information is true and the argument is valid.
: needs to be some creativity, not necessary fraud.
: PT, etc, and the other pay the rent to the other and occupy the guest room,
: if there happens to have one.
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 89 This is so right. I started to understand lots of tax issues when I realized
this point.
lawyer |
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 90 Also don't forget the other end of AMT. If you win lottery, or exercise
option this year to get 1M to buy a house with cash, the 1M income will make
you paying 35% marginal tax rate this year, or maybe 39.6% if this event
happens next year. That is definitely higher than the marginal rate you pay
when you use AMT. So another application of the same method would be to
move part of your income till next year, (how much? As much as you can until
AMT kicks in in the other direction), so you save a
【在 g****8 的大作中提到】
: 当然没有10%的CD喽。所以如果多交state tax那一年的最高的bracket就比较重要，如
: 果只是28%的话，还是不要折腾了。
: Married Filing Jointly 2010
: # 10% on the income between $0 and $16,750
: # 15% on the income between $16,750 and $68,000; plus $1,675
: # 25% on the income between $68,000 and $137,300; plus $9,362.50
: # 28% on the income between $137,300 and $209,250; plus $26,687.50
: # 33% on the income between $209,250 and $373,650; plus $46,833.50
: # 35% on the income over $373,650; plus $101,085.50
|
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o**p
发帖数: 199 | 91 tip 2 is very aggressive.
Business has to be for profit, $10 profit is pushing the limit. |
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 92 同学，Sing Family Residence, attached or detached 是一下三种情况
之一：
1) singe house
2) duplex / town house 的一个 unit
3) condo 的一个 unit
4) apartment complex 的一个 unit
显然不了解 city 的 zoning code，懒得再讨论这个问题了。
lawyer
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: 房租的多少是租户和房东定的。如果住一个SFH就算一个home的话，合租apartment的都
: 不能报head of household。这个判例的影响将是巨大的，我估计这个官司都可以打到
: 最高法院。IRS会考虑他们的成本，要知道IRS实际上也是个business，如果一个lawyer
: 陪你玩一个月，他从你这儿追回的一万五的税（把一个人的status改成single）还不够
: 他工资。而即便是他赢，这个最多是honest mistake，你补交差额加利息（比信用卡的
: 低多了）就行，如果差额巨大，你还可以negotiate，往往交个一部分就行了。
:
: room,
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t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 93 I would set up another site called beFriendAMT then. :)
See, the tax code is such a weird mess, that trouble for some people is
blessing for others.
However one thing I'd like to point out that you might have missed in your
tip, is the issue of "exemption phase out". This happens in both regular and
amt systems, but at different income levels. In AMT, exemption phaseout
will cause your marginal rate increasing 25%, hence you would be at 32.5%
and 35% bracket, rather than 26% and 28%. This is one
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: Also don't forget the other end of AMT. If you win lottery, or exercise
: option this year to get 1M to buy a house with cash, the 1M income will make
: you paying 35% marginal tax rate this year, or maybe 39.6% if this event
: happens next year. That is definitely higher than the marginal rate you pay
: when you use AMT. So another application of the same method would be to
: move part of your income till next year, (how much? As much as you can until
: AMT kicks in in the other direction), so you save a
|
c***v
发帖数: 86 | |
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 95 You are probably right. Thanks.
That explains the cap for itemized deduction, which takes roughly 2% off
your deduction amount when the AGI is high enough, so technically one
probably cannot gain too much by this strategy in second scenario. I'll see
if there is some other loop holes on this. :)
The best strategy would be to draw a income/tax graph to compare AMT and regular taxes and see if the second point they meet, whether is is at the 28% bracket region or first/second phaseout region. I
【在 t*******t 的大作中提到】
: I would set up another site called beFriendAMT then. :)
: See, the tax code is such a weird mess, that trouble for some people is
: blessing for others.
: However one thing I'd like to point out that you might have missed in your
: tip, is the issue of "exemption phase out". This happens in both regular and
: amt systems, but at different income levels. In AMT, exemption phaseout
: will cause your marginal rate increasing 25%, hence you would be at 32.5%
: and 35% bracket, rather than 26% and 28%. This is one
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 96 By "合租apartment", I mean 合租 apartment complex 的一个 unit, like room
mates.
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 同学，Sing Family Residence, attached or detached 是一下三种情况
: 之一：
: 1) singe house
: 2) duplex / town house 的一个 unit
: 3) condo 的一个 unit
: 4) apartment complex 的一个 unit
: 显然不了解 city 的 zoning code，懒得再讨论这个问题了。
:
: lawyer
|
t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 97 i c
不过这种 sublease 也不是占大头
而且援引判例要有可类比性，两个完全不相干的人，和两个离婚之后
的人，不一定有可类比性。当然，这个看法庭辩论陪审团定夺 …………
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: By "合租apartment", I mean 合租 apartment complex 的一个 unit, like room
: mates.
|
j******h
发帖数: 592 | 98 i feel shamed and embrassed as a professional who is not half-devoted to the
regulation and law as you guys do.
but just one little reminder regarding your travel expense. there is a
doctrine called substance over form.
Please discuss more cause I need to be motivated by u guys to study those
boring code sections.
are
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: That's because most of his income came from qualified dividend and some are
: from long term capital gain.
: As a matter of fact, there is a high possibility that both of these income
: will see a rate hike this year or next year.
: The rational behind income from qualified dividend and long term capital
: gain enjoys less tax rate than regular income is mainly to offset the "
: double tax" of business income: namely the profit gets taxed at corporate
: tax at first and then taxed again as personal income tax
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 99 Actually, I gave a little more thought on this when I was on treadmill
minutes ago and believe doing this trick always helps, based on the
assumption that a person (or couple) with AMT income reaching phase-out
bracket will most likely have a marginal tax rate higher than the AMT at
that bracket anyway, unless he has some very extreme deductions, such as
paying a property tax over an 15M house or something.
Even without this assumption, any income he shifts to next tax year that
beyond the AMT p
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: You are probably right. Thanks.
: That explains the cap for itemized deduction, which takes roughly 2% off
: your deduction amount when the AGI is high enough, so technically one
: probably cannot gain too much by this strategy in second scenario. I'll see
: if there is some other loop holes on this. :)
: The best strategy would be to draw a income/tax graph to compare AMT and regular taxes and see if the second point they meet, whether is is at the 28% bracket region or first/second phaseout region. I
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 100 I'm flattered.
These are 蝇头小利 for tax professionals. So I completely understand why
some tax professionals might miss a few small thing I, as a hobbyist happen
to know. I did this just for fun. The point I tried to make here is even for
normal people, one should put a little effort and know money issues if he
cares about money, if one himself does not care about his own money issue,
who else will care?
As for the "substance over form", I am fully aware of this and the odds here
is that IRS woul
【在 j******h 的大作中提到】
: i feel shamed and embrassed as a professional who is not half-devoted to the
: regulation and law as you guys do.
: but just one little reminder regarding your travel expense. there is a
: doctrine called substance over form.
: Please discuss more cause I need to be motivated by u guys to study those
: boring code sections.
:
: are
|
|
|
D**s
发帖数: 3909 | 101 就，明年税就您帮我报了好不?...
happen
for
here
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: I'm flattered.
: These are 蝇头小利 for tax professionals. So I completely understand why
: some tax professionals might miss a few small thing I, as a hobbyist happen
: to know. I did this just for fun. The point I tried to make here is even for
: normal people, one should put a little effort and know money issues if he
: cares about money, if one himself does not care about his own money issue,
: who else will care?
: As for the "substance over form", I am fully aware of this and the odds here
: is that IRS woul
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 102 You ask TamingAMT 吧。
For me, this is just a hobby, I have such cursed personality that no matter
how interested I am in any subject, if I tried to take it as profession, or
even try to profit from it, it never appeals to me any more.
So far, I am still interested in figuring out loopholes from tax codes even
for personal income tax and I'd like to keep it that way for a little while.
TamingAMT, do you want to treat me a dinner for a possible referral I bring
you? |
j******h
发帖数: 592 | 103 there is sth i don't understand. AMT is difference between the tmt and
regular tax. It is actually additional tax on the top of your regular tax.
state tax refund is subject to the regular tax. If the tp subject to amt, he
will pay additional tax. How does it change the tax rate for the state tax
refund from the regular tax marginal tax rate to amt rate?
AMT
【在 g****8 的大作中提到】
: 关于今年多交state tax,明年多交的部分会被当成taxable income,总之这部分钱是要
: 交税的，要么按今年的tax rate,要么按明年的tax rate. 按lz的方法，今年的没有AMT
: ,那部分钱要用最高的bracket, 假设33%， 而明年的tax rate 是28%，AMT的情况，所
: 省的钱也就是5%， 如果算上多交这笔钱的利息的话，省的就更少了，是不是就不值这
: 个麻烦了。不知我理解的对不对
: 但提前交property tax是肯定能省不少
|
j******h
发帖数: 592 | 104 我不知道楼主是不是看了些什么，知道sch A ln9要加回去算amti，所以想play play。
这个是对tax planning有意义。可是意义仿佛（我有限的知识）限于要不要客人在12/
31前交全部state est. tax。如果这个客人要Hit amt, 12/31之前就没意义了。如果不
hit，那是一定要交的，全部，按照我们预估的，有的时候根据客人情况还要加个%。
hit amt就等到1/15交90%。4/15交齐。
一般来说，要把preference item从有amt的年份移到没有的年份才有意义。我不明白，
为啥从没有的年份移到有的年份会省钱。
he
tax
【在 j******h 的大作中提到】
: there is sth i don't understand. AMT is difference between the tmt and
: regular tax. It is actually additional tax on the top of your regular tax.
: state tax refund is subject to the regular tax. If the tp subject to amt, he
: will pay additional tax. How does it change the tax rate for the state tax
: refund from the regular tax marginal tax rate to amt rate?
:
: AMT
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 105 Yes there exists the second cross point of AMT and regular system, starting
at which AMT tax
A graph will definitely make this easy to understand. Would be a good
feature to implement.
Surprised? This is another secret in AMT.
I can implement this in one of my apps (probably takes another day to
program a Web client) for different year/filing status etc., but that has
not made into my priority list yet since the second cross point is well
beyond most W-2 earners' wages.
see
regular
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: You are probably right. Thanks.
: That explains the cap for itemized deduction, which takes roughly 2% off
: your deduction amount when the AGI is high enough, so technically one
: probably cannot gain too much by this strategy in second scenario. I'll see
: if there is some other loop holes on this. :)
: The best strategy would be to draw a income/tax graph to compare AMT and regular taxes and see if the second point they meet, whether is is at the 28% bracket region or first/second phaseout region. I
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 106 我的strategy分两种情况，第一种和你描述的相似，客户hit的是AMT的下端，但你们考虑的是当年的报税，因为如果不是在12月31日前交，如果当年不hit AMT, 你浪费（其实是延迟，如果第二年也不hit，而且客户依然选择用itemize and deduct state income tax的话）州税抵扣额，对吧？ 我如果再扩展一下，反正今年还有抵扣的余额（余额有限，抵太多就会hit AMT，但所有有限资源浪费都可惜，尤其是第二年客户可能会hit AMT， 那有没有可能把他第二年的州税抵扣挪到今年先用掉呢？ 这就是我最早提出的操作。一般报税看当年，我顺便把明年也看看。
然后第二种应用是在客户的收入在AMT上端超过， 只好用regular报税的情况。我的这种处理省税其实不是因为把没 hit AMT年度的收入移入hit AMT年度而省的钱。本质是想办法把高收入年度的收入往低收入年度移，而且和第一种情况一样，想办法把普通收入在被AMT的范围外用state tax抵扣，一般是regular tax marginal rate，然后在另一年把因为过度抵扣而产生的收入作为普通收入用AMT的2
【在 j******h 的大作中提到】
: 我不知道楼主是不是看了些什么，知道sch A ln9要加回去算amti，所以想play play。
: 这个是对tax planning有意义。可是意义仿佛（我有限的知识）限于要不要客人在12/
: 31前交全部state est. tax。如果这个客人要Hit amt, 12/31之前就没意义了。如果不
: hit，那是一定要交的，全部，按照我们预估的，有的时候根据客人情况还要加个%。
: hit amt就等到1/15交90%。4/15交齐。
: 一般来说，要把preference item从有amt的年份移到没有的年份才有意义。我不明白，
: 为啥从没有的年份移到有的年份会省钱。
:
: he
: tax
|
j******h
发帖数: 592 | 107
所有有限资源浪费都可惜，尤其是第二年客户可能会hit AMT， 那有没有可能把他第二
年的州税抵扣挪到今年先用掉呢？ 这就是我最早提出的操作。一般报税看当年，我顺
便把明年也看看。
你怎么把明年的抵扣今年用了？不明白。
marginal rate 交税。同样的金额，抵扣税率高于交税的税率，省的钱是这么出来的。
：美国个人税要算两次，一次regular tax, 另一次AMT, 哪个高交哪个
你对AMT的理解错了。AMT是additional tax。你的普通收入总是要按regualr tax rate
缴税的。按AMT税率缴税的部分，只可能是当年add back的部分(deduction, 特别收入
，不可能是state income tax refund)。你的当年普通收入，不会用amt 税率缴税。你
要想用你的method 1省税，只能是税率在降，降的额度还要超过interest rate。或者
缴税人的tax bracket在降。税率在升的情况，你的方法只能让人交更多税。
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: 我的strategy分两种情况，第一种和你描述的相似，客户hit的是AMT的下端，但你们考虑的是当年的报税，因为如果不是在12月31日前交，如果当年不hit AMT, 你浪费（其实是延迟，如果第二年也不hit，而且客户依然选择用itemize and deduct state income tax的话）州税抵扣额，对吧？ 我如果再扩展一下，反正今年还有抵扣的余额（余额有限，抵太多就会hit AMT，但所有有限资源浪费都可惜，尤其是第二年客户可能会hit AMT， 那有没有可能把他第二年的州税抵扣挪到今年先用掉呢？ 这就是我最早提出的操作。一般报税看当年，我顺便把明年也看看。
: 然后第二种应用是在客户的收入在AMT上端超过， 只好用regular报税的情况。我的这种处理省税其实不是因为把没 hit AMT年度的收入移入hit AMT年度而省的钱。本质是想办法把高收入年度的收入往低收入年度移，而且和第一种情况一样，想办法把普通收入在被AMT的范围外用state tax抵扣，一般是regular tax marginal rate，然后在另一年把因为过度抵扣而产生的收入作为普通收入用AMT的2
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 108 我都已经给出例子了你算一下不就可以了？或者你也请我吃顿饭，我算给你看？
你先想明白为啥你客户如果2009年不hit AMT你要让他在2009年底前交State estimate
tax, 如果他放在2010年交， 他2010年hit或不hitAMT有什么差别。如果你真正搞明白
这个问题你就知道我这样处理的奥秘了。
再给你个提示，你是不是可以把州税deduct取决于你有没有hit AMT,如果没有，你就可
以，而你收入足够低，或足够高的时候都不会hit AMT，我的操作就是在这个时候狠狠
的deduct，(这个时候每deduct100, 我可以少付35块钱的税), 后面一年（或几年）我
要把我以前多deduct的钱作为普通收入补回去，但我补回去的时候是我hit AMT的时候
，被AMT hit的时候，我每多收入100块，我只要还26块或28块税回去， 这样我是不是
赚了？
rate
【在 j******h 的大作中提到】
:
: 所有有限资源浪费都可惜，尤其是第二年客户可能会hit AMT， 那有没有可能把他第二
: 年的州税抵扣挪到今年先用掉呢？ 这就是我最早提出的操作。一般报税看当年，我顺
: 便把明年也看看。
: 你怎么把明年的抵扣今年用了？不明白。
: marginal rate 交税。同样的金额，抵扣税率高于交税的税率，省的钱是这么出来的。
: ：美国个人税要算两次，一次regular tax, 另一次AMT, 哪个高交哪个
: 你对AMT的理解错了。AMT是additional tax。你的普通收入总是要按regualr tax rate
: 缴税的。按AMT税率缴税的部分，只可能是当年add back的部分(deduction, 特别收入
: ，不可能是state income tax refund)。你的当年普通收入，不会用amt 税率缴税。你
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 109 This strategy is the supporting theory of http://tamingamt.appspot.com/tamingamt.html, the first tool of TamingAMT,
TamingAMT == optimize your tax return so that AMT == Regular
because
your final tax = min(AMT, Regular)
hence when AMT == Regular (some people call this AMT Cross Point) you do not
waste any deduction/income on either side.
The following are examples of common deductions of both sides:
mortgate interest
Charity donation
The following are example deduction for only regular but not A
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: 我的strategy分两种情况，第一种和你描述的相似，客户hit的是AMT的下端，但你们考虑的是当年的报税，因为如果不是在12月31日前交，如果当年不hit AMT, 你浪费（其实是延迟，如果第二年也不hit，而且客户依然选择用itemize and deduct state income tax的话）州税抵扣额，对吧？ 我如果再扩展一下，反正今年还有抵扣的余额（余额有限，抵太多就会hit AMT，但所有有限资源浪费都可惜，尤其是第二年客户可能会hit AMT， 那有没有可能把他第二年的州税抵扣挪到今年先用掉呢？ 这就是我最早提出的操作。一般报税看当年，我顺便把明年也看看。
: 然后第二种应用是在客户的收入在AMT上端超过， 只好用regular报税的情况。我的这种处理省税其实不是因为把没 hit AMT年度的收入移入hit AMT年度而省的钱。本质是想办法把高收入年度的收入往低收入年度移，而且和第一种情况一样，想办法把普通收入在被AMT的范围外用state tax抵扣，一般是regular tax marginal rate，然后在另一年把因为过度抵扣而产生的收入作为普通收入用AMT的2
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 110 Term-wise, Jadefish is right, The term of your AMT tax should be tentative
minimum tax (TMT) and AMT is the difference of TMT and regular tax, when TMT
is greater than RT.
AMT tax is just a common term for use on this board.
not
【在 t*******t 的大作中提到】
: This strategy is the supporting theory of http://tamingamt.appspot.com/tamingamt.html, the first tool of TamingAMT,
: TamingAMT == optimize your tax return so that AMT == Regular
: because
: your final tax = min(AMT, Regular)
: hence when AMT == Regular (some people call this AMT Cross Point) you do not
: waste any deduction/income on either side.
: The following are examples of common deductions of both sides:
: mortgate interest
: Charity donation
: The following are example deduction for only regular but not A
|
|
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 111 OK ... agree with you. The confusion of names if part of why AMT is called
complicated.
TMT
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: Term-wise, Jadefish is right, The term of your AMT tax should be tentative
: minimum tax (TMT) and AMT is the difference of TMT and regular tax, when TMT
: is greater than RT.
: AMT tax is just a common term for use on this board.
:
: not
|
b*******r
发帖数: 6655 | 112 state tax refund is not subject to AMT. so in the second year, AMT is not
relevant at all. The state tax shifting only helps if you have lower
income in the second year. In another word, it's same as 401K.
estimate
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: 我都已经给出例子了你算一下不就可以了？或者你也请我吃顿饭，我算给你看？
: 你先想明白为啥你客户如果2009年不hit AMT你要让他在2009年底前交State estimate
: tax, 如果他放在2010年交， 他2010年hit或不hitAMT有什么差别。如果你真正搞明白
: 这个问题你就知道我这样处理的奥秘了。
: 再给你个提示，你是不是可以把州税deduct取决于你有没有hit AMT,如果没有，你就可
: 以，而你收入足够低，或足够高的时候都不会hit AMT，我的操作就是在这个时候狠狠
: 的deduct，(这个时候每deduct100, 我可以少付35块钱的税), 后面一年（或几年）我
: 要把我以前多deduct的钱作为普通收入补回去，但我补回去的时候是我hit AMT的时候
: ，被AMT hit的时候，我每多收入100块，我只要还26块或28块税回去， 这样我是不是
: 赚了？
|
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 113 You are right. Now this makes it even better. Now you can easily shift all
横财 at lesser years to achieve optimal results. (Although how much of that
income can be shifted away to next year on the first year would be limited
to the high end of where TMT equals with RT.)
And you can also do this repeatedly, and since the tax-refund is not even
calculated in TMT next year, we can shift more income of next year into the
following year and practically, you may end up paying more income at 26%
rate
【在 b*******r 的大作中提到】
: state tax refund is not subject to AMT. so in the second year, AMT is not
: relevant at all. The state tax shifting only helps if you have lower
: income in the second year. In another word, it's same as 401K.
:
: estimate
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 114 so good. I've got the idea of another app of TamingAMT web site. Thank you
guys.
all
that
limited
the
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: You are right. Now this makes it even better. Now you can easily shift all
: 横财 at lesser years to achieve optimal results. (Although how much of that
: income can be shifted away to next year on the first year would be limited
: to the high end of where TMT equals with RT.)
: And you can also do this repeatedly, and since the tax-refund is not even
: calculated in TMT next year, we can shift more income of next year into the
: following year and practically, you may end up paying more income at 26%
: rate
|
j******h
发帖数: 592 | 115 ：被AMT hit的时候，我每多收入100块，我只要还26块或28块税回去， 这样我是不是
不对。
by common sense，大家就知道应该把preference item从有amt移到没有amt的年份；by
common sense，大家就知道把income从tax bracket高的年份移到低的年份，如果可以
。你们所谓的model，我的感觉意义不大。
不过你们继续干，因为理工科生的本性，很想看看你们的model会是什么样。虽然不认
为有实用意义。 |
j******h
发帖数: 592 | 116 我这么跟你说吧，首先marginal tax rate的定义 d(tax)/d(taxable income)。请注意
taxable income, not amti。
希望你现在明白你那里错了。
estimate
【在 w*t 的大作中提到】
: 我都已经给出例子了你算一下不就可以了？或者你也请我吃顿饭，我算给你看？
: 你先想明白为啥你客户如果2009年不hit AMT你要让他在2009年底前交State estimate
: tax, 如果他放在2010年交， 他2010年hit或不hitAMT有什么差别。如果你真正搞明白
: 这个问题你就知道我这样处理的奥秘了。
: 再给你个提示，你是不是可以把州税deduct取决于你有没有hit AMT,如果没有，你就可
: 以，而你收入足够低，或足够高的时候都不会hit AMT，我的操作就是在这个时候狠狠
: 的deduct，(这个时候每deduct100, 我可以少付35块钱的税), 后面一年（或几年）我
: 要把我以前多deduct的钱作为普通收入补回去，但我补回去的时候是我hit AMT的时候
: ，被AMT hit的时候，我每多收入100块，我只要还26块或28块税回去， 这样我是不是
: 赚了？
|
t*******t
发帖数: 1656 | 117 There are a couple of pre-conditions before the following can be true.
Conditions:
1. TMT >RT hence effective marginal rate is AMT rate, not regular rate
2. TMT > $434 XXX (MFJ) when AMT exemption is completely phaseout to be zero.
at this time, effective marginal rate is 26%/28%
This is so called marginal rate regression under the AMT system, because
when you make more (enough), you would not be paying under the regular
system but the AMT system.
The exact point this becomes true will vary depe |
w*t
发帖数: 591 | 118 我的处理就是把收入从高bracket的年份往低bracket的年份（后面一年）移， 用state
tax overpayment and refund 的办法。 如果后面一年的tax bracket还是高，我还可
以再用同样的方法往后移。
但为什么我不能全移走，一直到0%或10%tax bracket呢？ 因为有AMT。如果没有AMT，
我可以不用交Fed tax at all.
现在明白了吗？
by
【在 j******h 的大作中提到】
: ：被AMT hit的时候，我每多收入100块，我只要还26块或28块税回去， 这样我是不是
: 不对。
: by common sense，大家就知道应该把preference item从有amt移到没有amt的年份；by
: common sense，大家就知道把income从tax bracket高的年份移到低的年份，如果可以
: 。你们所谓的model，我的感觉意义不大。
: 不过你们继续干，因为理工科生的本性，很想看看你们的model会是什么样。虽然不认
: 为有实用意义。
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