A********r
发帖数: 63 | 1 OSG裁员的原因：
1. 试问同级别的测试为公司创造出来的财富可以与开发比吗？
2. 最近几个产品开发过程中， 测试成为了拉产品后腿的负能量而受到很多抱怨 （WTF
is testability?）
3. 测试工具，代码是测试部门为了升级所创造出来的虚拟概念。99%的测试代码是垃圾
，99%有效的虫来自于人工测试。
4. 软件公司的工程师， 如果写不出产品质量的代码，就是浪费公司资源。如果写得出
，都已经成功转开发了。 |
h*********n
发帖数: 1002 | |
S******2
发帖数: 248 | 3
【在 h*********n 的大作中提到】
: SDE被裁的也很多
|
f******t
发帖数: 97 | 4 好像听说的都是SDET（各个部门），很少听到DEV |
J**0
发帖数: 1634 | 5 你完全不认识牛B的SDETs啊。
WTF
【在 A********r 的大作中提到】
: OSG裁员的原因：
: 1. 试问同级别的测试为公司创造出来的财富可以与开发比吗？
: 2. 最近几个产品开发过程中， 测试成为了拉产品后腿的负能量而受到很多抱怨 （WTF
: is testability?）
: 3. 测试工具，代码是测试部门为了升级所创造出来的虚拟概念。99%的测试代码是垃圾
: ，99%有效的虫来自于人工测试。
: 4. 软件公司的工程师， 如果写不出产品质量的代码，就是浪费公司资源。如果写得出
: ，都已经成功转开发了。
|
G*****h
发帖数: 33134 | 6 有一个 sdet lead 校长，年岁老高了，也让走人了。感觉不写代码的 sdet 比较危险
【在 J**0 的大作中提到】
: 你完全不认识牛B的SDETs啊。
:
: WTF
|
S******2
发帖数: 248 | 7
【在 G*****h 的大作中提到】
: 有一个 sdet lead 校长，年岁老高了，也让走人了。感觉不写代码的 sdet 比较危险
|
t***t
发帖数: 6066 | 8 sdet确实是浪费钱。sde把测试代码都写了得了，又快又好。 |
u**c
发帖数: 17972 | 9 多大年纪？
【在 G*****h 的大作中提到】
: 有一个 sdet lead 校长，年岁老高了，也让走人了。感觉不写代码的 sdet 比较危险
|
L****y
发帖数: 53 | 10 From mini:
Anonymous said...
Here's the full set of things I know for OSG (I'm in the org):
- The cuts in OSG were mostly test (Not remote workers) and mostly ICs.
- The cuts in OSG were mostly about meeting the ratio (2:1 dev to test).
This is why it was testers cut. There have been no words yet about strict
dev to PM ratios.
- The cuts in OSG were not based on performance reviews, but some
combination of performance reviews, current compensation (We don't wanna
keep high paid people not earning their money on payroll), and some nebulous
idea of "future potential." Basically a lifeboat exercise with compensation
included as a factor.
- At least some group managers did not know they would be losing people
until today (Though they may have been told ahead of time that there was a
possibility and to prepare for the worst).
- The OSG Build team was absolutely gutted and suffered the worst losses of
any team I'm aware of - hundreds of people, seemingly with no rhyme nor
reason. This was the aftermath of Windows Phone, Xbox, and Windows build
teams all merging together - lots of duplicate staff. From what I know, none
of these groups got special treatment and all suffered losses.
- I have no idea if all the build infrastructure being down has to do with
layoffs, but it is curious that a bunch of people lose access on Sunday
night and that's when they're saying SourceDepot and ATLAS will be back.
- Literally none of this was communicated in any official emails. This is
all from group managers, leads, and individuals laid off. Transparency was
not a priority, clearly.
Also, I want to second the person who mentioned earlier that we were fed a
bunch of bullshit about "flattening the hierarchy" and then watched as they
laid off nothing but SDET ICs and build engineers. I literally have not
heard of a single lead losing their job without all their ICs also being let
go. Read that again: We somehow managed to create fewer layers of
management without laying off a single manager. Satya is a magician.
I was spared in this round but the way this entire disaster transpired today
does not inspire confidence.
Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:43:00 PM |
|
|
s*****n
发帖数: 742 | 11 backend story:
managers -> leads: we will need to cut 10 in our group
lead A-> cut A1 and A2 from my team
lead B-> cut B1 and B2 from my team
...
leads: I have lost ppl already, let me choose another IC role after A1, A2,
B1, B2 left...
It is just not logical to fire leads, because they are backed up by IC
firing plans..
After the flattening, non-strong leads are going to suffer, then meet the
criteria for the next round of cut. |
a****a
发帖数: 3905 | 12 软软的人都不看新闻的？
砍tester的消息周二还是周三就传出来了。
nebulous
【在 L****y 的大作中提到】
: From mini:
: Anonymous said...
: Here's the full set of things I know for OSG (I'm in the org):
: - The cuts in OSG were mostly test (Not remote workers) and mostly ICs.
: - The cuts in OSG were mostly about meeting the ratio (2:1 dev to test).
: This is why it was testers cut. There have been no words yet about strict
: dev to PM ratios.
: - The cuts in OSG were not based on performance reviews, but some
: combination of performance reviews, current compensation (We don't wanna
: keep high paid people not earning their money on payroll), and some nebulous
|
e*********e
发帖数: 2175 | 13 你怎么知道别人不看，再说这早就不是新闻了。
【在 a****a 的大作中提到】
: 软软的人都不看新闻的？
: 砍tester的消息周二还是周三就传出来了。
:
: nebulous
|
C********e
发帖数: 2327 | 14 OSG没裁DEV，
【在 f******t 的大作中提到】
: 好像听说的都是SDET（各个部门），很少听到DEV
|
e*********e
发帖数: 2175 | 15 有裁，不多。
【在 C********e 的大作中提到】
: OSG没裁DEV，
|
p*******r
发帖数: 3 | 16 Anonymous said...
A REAL STORY about favoritism and dirty politics in the Exchange Test Team
and how it saved itself from the layoffs.
A few months back, EVP Qi Lu decides to reorg the Exchange team. The idea
was to get rid of the test discipline and decrease the “management layers”
. SDETs/SDET Leads will all be converted to Dev. Test Managers, Test
Directors and Test CVPs will be converted to IC’s or shown the door (
indirectly). Dev Leads become Dev Managers and get more reports. The test-to
-dev converts will also report to these new Dev Managers.
When the re-org came, Test Director Steve Connor made the best move of his
career. He knew that most of the test team was just dead wood and it was
just a matter of time before most of them get laid off. He somehow convinced
CVP Rajesh Jha to create an entirely new ‘Customer Engineering’ dev team
with a headcount of ~200. That saved his ass. When it was time for Steve to
build his team of directs (Group Dev Managers) and their directs (Dev
Managers) he picked them up ENTIRELY from the TEST discipline. In that, he
selected a few of his previous directs (Test Managers) he was closest with (
Satish Krishnan, Nagaraju Palla, etc) and asked them to select their own
team. These GDM’s created new teams from their old orgs. ‘Senior SDET
Leads’ will become ‘Dev Managers’ with 10 dev reports (again, all
previous SDETs) each.
Test Managers who weren’t as close to Steve, will be converted to Dev ICs
in the default org. They weren’t even considered for the ‘Dev Manager’ (
let alone GDM) position in the new team. Those positions are being taken up
by very average Senior SDET leads. I was close to one of these very capable
Test Manager. This is blatantly unfair and everybody across Exchange
acknowledges this obvious, “who you know” is more important than “what
you are capable of”. What a shame. Exchange used to be a great team within
Microsoft.
Here’s the kicker. An IC who was previously a Senior SDET and now a Senior
SDE jokes, “This has been a great summer. I became a senior dev without
interviewing for it. And, best of all, since my entire team was kept intact
with no real devs being hired, I am really only competing with other SDETs.
That keeps my reviews and work-life balance in good shape”. He is right and
it will stay that way because the dev’s don’t want to join Steve Connor’
s team.
I am now a part of the dev team and I’ll have to work my butt off to
compete with other devs and get promotions. As for Steve Connor’s entire
team, they got a free title without any added responsibilities. Unshamed
nepotism and sandbagging by the test org. Hope Rajesh / Qi / Satya are
listening…
Friday, July 18, 2014 7:44:00 AM |
m********8
发帖数: 7463 | 17 大哥保护小弟，保护之后换取小弟的忠诚，这个敢问有何不妥？
to
【在 p*******r 的大作中提到】
: Anonymous said...
: A REAL STORY about favoritism and dirty politics in the Exchange Test Team
: and how it saved itself from the layoffs.
: A few months back, EVP Qi Lu decides to reorg the Exchange team. The idea
: was to get rid of the test discipline and decrease the “management layers”
: . SDETs/SDET Leads will all be converted to Dev. Test Managers, Test
: Directors and Test CVPs will be converted to IC’s or shown the door (
: indirectly). Dev Leads become Dev Managers and get more reports. The test-to
: -dev converts will also report to these new Dev Managers.
: When the re-org came, Test Director Steve Connor made the best move of his
|
k******9
发帖数: 63 | |
w**a
发帖数: 307 | 19 这一轮完了，等22号后重组吧。
【在 k******9 的大作中提到】
: OSG到底裁完吗？谁能解读Terry的信？
|
m***g
发帖数: 27 | 20 PMs are still alive!!!!!!!!
【在 w**a 的大作中提到】
: 这一轮完了，等22号后重组吧。
|
|
|
e***g
发帖数: 1696 | 21 SDE和SDET水平有多大差别？
to
【在 p*******r 的大作中提到】
: Anonymous said...
: A REAL STORY about favoritism and dirty politics in the Exchange Test Team
: and how it saved itself from the layoffs.
: A few months back, EVP Qi Lu decides to reorg the Exchange team. The idea
: was to get rid of the test discipline and decrease the “management layers”
: . SDETs/SDET Leads will all be converted to Dev. Test Managers, Test
: Directors and Test CVPs will be converted to IC’s or shown the door (
: indirectly). Dev Leads become Dev Managers and get more reports. The test-to
: -dev converts will also report to these new Dev Managers.
: When the re-org came, Test Director Steve Connor made the best move of his
|
k******9
发帖数: 63 | 22 重组是什么意思？继续裁人吗？
这一轮根本没动PM和lead，是什么意思？
Terry的信模棱两可，到底OSG还裁不裁？
【在 w**a 的大作中提到】
: 这一轮完了，等22号后重组吧。
|
T*U
发帖数: 22634 | 23 明明是外包了，拿不到绿卡的阿三，高高兴兴回去当外包经理去了
WTF
【在 A********r 的大作中提到】
: OSG裁员的原因：
: 1. 试问同级别的测试为公司创造出来的财富可以与开发比吗？
: 2. 最近几个产品开发过程中， 测试成为了拉产品后腿的负能量而受到很多抱怨 （WTF
: is testability?）
: 3. 测试工具，代码是测试部门为了升级所创造出来的虚拟概念。99%的测试代码是垃圾
: ，99%有效的虫来自于人工测试。
: 4. 软件公司的工程师， 如果写不出产品质量的代码，就是浪费公司资源。如果写得出
: ，都已经成功转开发了。
|
w**a
发帖数: 307 | 24 不是最近很多人都重新选组了吗。还有公司方向改成productivity and platform 了，
要重新分组吗？我不在微软，没你们内部的人清楚。
【在 k******9 的大作中提到】
: 重组是什么意思？继续裁人吗？
: 这一轮根本没动PM和lead，是什么意思？
: Terry的信模棱两可，到底OSG还裁不裁？
|
e*********e
发帖数: 2175 | 25 OSG 当然有PM这次也被裁了，只是QA这次受影响最大。下一轮肯定要大裁PM。dev to
pm ratio 要达到5:1 or 6:1, rumor has it. |
k******9
发帖数: 63 | 26 Terry的email不是说已经裁完了，哪里rumor说PM ratio？ |
e*********e
发帖数: 2175 | 27 既然现在还是rumor, 当然不会在正式通文里面说了。
【在 k******9 的大作中提到】
: Terry的email不是说已经裁完了，哪里rumor说PM ratio？
|
a****a
发帖数: 3905 | 28 要裁18，000；这周才裁了13，000。
不过下次可能主要是中层了。
【在 k******9 的大作中提到】
: Terry的email不是说已经裁完了，哪里rumor说PM ratio？
|
