K****D
发帖数: 30533 | |
a*****0
发帖数: 6788 | 2 看不出来谁是9岁。黑衣？ 有的娃发育就是早。 上回娃比赛有个女娃5尺3左右还不到
十一岁。直接切别的娃。 |
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 3 还是不如你贴的那个5'7"的10岁娃高啊。
【在 a*****0 的大作中提到】
: 看不出来谁是9岁。黑衣？ 有的娃发育就是早。 上回娃比赛有个女娃5尺3左右还不到
: 十一岁。直接切别的娃。
|
a*****0
发帖数: 6788 | 4
哈哈，是啊，那个被她爸贴图的小黑妹， 而且她就喜欢出去date boys，可见physical
和mental的发育都是至少14，5岁去了。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 还是不如你贴的那个5'7"的10岁娃高啊。
|
s***e
发帖数: 7166 | 5 她是HARD CANDY，出去DATE别人，这不是坑人么。
physical
【在 a*****0 的大作中提到】
:
: 哈哈，是啊，那个被她爸贴图的小黑妹， 而且她就喜欢出去date boys，可见physical
: 和mental的发育都是至少14，5岁去了。
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 6 这个视频你以前奔过。。。
在我看来俩人都是动作派。 这又回到我之前说的， 你我对动作派的理解不同。 从我
的角度来看， 你把人的game style 归为动作派， 而我是把一种人归为动作派。 我指
的动作派的人很多是打法是你指的game style特别在低水平。
还有一点，你的一些建议很多时候只是个表面现象。 比如说有些短球应该dropshot/
chip/slice什么的。 对于很多player来说， 比赛打法的节奏很重要， 一个可以抽的
球不抽，去打drop, 首先在高水平中这个选择不见的是个你想象的high percentage
shot, 高水平的选手跑动， anticipation 很强， 真正打出好的drop不容易打。 drop
还被对方打死， 有时会对打drop方的打击很大， 影响心态， 有时即使drop 成功了
， 但接下来失去了打正手的感觉，影响更大。。。 （I have experience this many
times in the past). 所以说这些球选择抽其实就是为了赢。。。 抽多猛，怎么抽，
is the area for improvement.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 不要人肉，猜一下比分。
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr8bkOpji0M
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 7 在这里没贴过把。
偶没说9岁的是ws派阿，均衡派的意思就是动作game都不错。12岁那个game不行所以叫
动作派。
高水平里，drop永远不是主要得分手段，使用者必须有暴力finish球能力，drop只是
作为mix up用，keep opponent guessing. 而且需要有强大的网前功底，指望dropshot
直接得分是不实际的。 但是如果暴力老搞不死对手，比如俩中国哥们（防守都太强，
攻击力包括网前相对差点），一味的强攻也是很累的，得分率也一样不高。
drop
many
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: 这个视频你以前奔过。。。
: 在我看来俩人都是动作派。 这又回到我之前说的， 你我对动作派的理解不同。 从我
: 的角度来看， 你把人的game style 归为动作派， 而我是把一种人归为动作派。 我指
: 的动作派的人很多是打法是你指的game style特别在低水平。
: 还有一点，你的一些建议很多时候只是个表面现象。 比如说有些短球应该dropshot/
: chip/slice什么的。 对于很多player来说， 比赛打法的节奏很重要， 一个可以抽的
: 球不抽，去打drop, 首先在高水平中这个选择不见的是个你想象的high percentage
: shot, 高水平的选手跑动， anticipation 很强， 真正打出好的drop不容易打。 drop
: 还被对方打死， 有时会对打drop方的打击很大， 影响心态， 有时即使drop 成功了
: ， 但接下来失去了打正手的感觉，影响更大。。。 （I have experience this many
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 8 joker 是你所说的动作派
scott 是你所说的均衡派
bull 是你所说的身体派
magician 是你所说的ws派
right?
dropshot
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 在这里没贴过把。
: 偶没说9岁的是ws派阿，均衡派的意思就是动作game都不错。12岁那个game不行所以叫
: 动作派。
: 高水平里，drop永远不是主要得分手段，使用者必须有暴力finish球能力，drop只是
: 作为mix up用，keep opponent guessing. 而且需要有强大的网前功底，指望dropshot
: 直接得分是不实际的。 但是如果暴力老搞不死对手，比如俩中国哥们（防守都太强，
: 攻击力包括网前相对差点），一味的强攻也是很累的，得分率也一样不高。
:
: drop
: many
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 9 Who's scott? Who's bull?
动作派：Tsonga
ws派：Santoro
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: joker 是你所说的动作派
: scott 是你所说的均衡派
: bull 是你所说的身体派
: magician 是你所说的ws派
: right?
:
: dropshot
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 10 My definition of 动作派 isn't about a style. It's about whether a player
knows how to effectively use his strength and/or opponent's weakness to
win a match.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Who's scott? Who's bull?
: 动作派：Tsonga
: ws派：Santoro
|
|
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 11 scott = murray
bull = nadal
the talk of big 4 back then, the king, the Scott, the joker and the bull
动作派：Tsonga?!!
are you kidding me? Joker, Goffin, Borna are typical representation of 动作
派 (by my definition at least), that new German kid, Alexander Zv something
too...
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Who's scott? Who's bull?
: 动作派：Tsonga
: ws派：Santoro
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 12 so by your definition 动作派 does not know how to effectively use his
strength and/or opponent's weakness to win a match?
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: My definition of 动作派 isn't about a style. It's about whether a player
: knows how to effectively use his strength and/or opponent's weakness to
: win a match.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 13 I don't understand. Tsonga obviously has better 动作 than at least Borna...
But I am talking about Tsonga doesn't know how to win a match. At least
before Toronto 2014.
Zv is 动作派，Borna is a pusher, with game slightly ahead of form.
What's your definition again?
something
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: scott = murray
: bull = nadal
: the talk of big 4 back then, the king, the Scott, the joker and the bull
: 动作派：Tsonga?!!
: are you kidding me? Joker, Goffin, Borna are typical representation of 动作
: 派 (by my definition at least), that new German kid, Alexander Zv something
: too...
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 14 Yes, i.e., form is so good, comparing to game.
Someone like Tsonga, Wawrinka, Gulbis etc.
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: so by your definition 动作派 does not know how to effectively use his
: strength and/or opponent's weakness to win a match?
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 15 Correction: Stroke is so good, comparing to game.
Gulbis's form is not so good, lol.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Yes, i.e., form is so good, comparing to game.
: Someone like Tsonga, Wawrinka, Gulbis etc.
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 16 I recall you mentioned something about 动作派 do not use highest percentage
way to win match. Come to think of it you are right to certain extend.
I'm in a decent shape, probably better than most opponent I have came across
. My baseline topspin has clear superiority compare to typical grinder. If I
were to play a mid 4.5 pusher/grinder, the surest thing I should do is just
stay on the baseline and out grind him. But instead I choose to do a lot
more swing volleys and head to the net more. There are times I lost a match
because of it, but now I feel much better at play those type of players.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: My definition of 动作派 isn't about a style. It's about whether a player
: knows how to effectively use his strength and/or opponent's weakness to
: win a match.
|
z*********n
发帖数: 94654 | 17 我觉得上旋动作派能把二者结合起来，一直grind，很好看的上旋打法，球下坠落在界
内，high percentage
percentage
across
I
just
match
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: I recall you mentioned something about 动作派 do not use highest percentage
: way to win match. Come to think of it you are right to certain extend.
: I'm in a decent shape, probably better than most opponent I have came across
: . My baseline topspin has clear superiority compare to typical grinder. If I
: were to play a mid 4.5 pusher/grinder, the surest thing I should do is just
: stay on the baseline and out grind him. But instead I choose to do a lot
: more swing volleys and head to the net more. There are times I lost a match
: because of it, but now I feel much better at play those type of players.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 18 Yes, Tsonga would be a good example of that. I used to categorize him as
无脑暴力男。
Del Potro used to be one also (although his form looks ugly), but since 2012
he drastically improved his pushing ability in defense. Now he is much more
balanced and harder to beat.
percentage
across
I
just
match
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: I recall you mentioned something about 动作派 do not use highest percentage
: way to win match. Come to think of it you are right to certain extend.
: I'm in a decent shape, probably better than most opponent I have came across
: . My baseline topspin has clear superiority compare to typical grinder. If I
: were to play a mid 4.5 pusher/grinder, the surest thing I should do is just
: stay on the baseline and out grind him. But instead I choose to do a lot
: more swing volleys and head to the net more. There are times I lost a match
: because of it, but now I feel much better at play those type of players.
|
h******n
发帖数: 734 | 19 delpo's what ugly?
2012
more
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Yes, Tsonga would be a good example of that. I used to categorize him as
: 无脑暴力男。
: Del Potro used to be one also (although his form looks ugly), but since 2012
: he drastically improved his pushing ability in defense. Now he is much more
: balanced and harder to beat.
:
: percentage
: across
: I
: just
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 20 Forehand.
【在 h******n 的大作中提到】
: delpo's what ugly?
:
: 2012
: more
|
|
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 21 how is tsonga's 动作 better than Borna....? I guess "better" here is
subjective, so to different ppl, it's different.
Using your definition of 派（style of game), I would cartography Tsonga as
暴力派, he try to win the match through beating opponent through pace.
Like I said, my definition of 动作派are the players who care about hitting
a proper stroke. They spend time practice and clean up their stroke. As far
as wining, regardless which 派， everyone wants to win, 动作派 tend to care
about how they win. If i play like crap and still won the match, I would not
be very happy about it.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I don't understand. Tsonga obviously has better 动作 than at least Borna...
: But I am talking about Tsonga doesn't know how to win a match. At least
: before Toronto 2014.
: Zv is 动作派，Borna is a pusher, with game slightly ahead of form.
: What's your definition again?
:
: something
|
z*********n
发帖数: 94654 | 22 pro的动作我看起来都很潇洒，呵呵
那个阔少叫啥来着其实也挺帅的
hitting
far
care
not
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: how is tsonga's 动作 better than Borna....? I guess "better" here is
: subjective, so to different ppl, it's different.
: Using your definition of 派（style of game), I would cartography Tsonga as
: 暴力派, he try to win the match through beating opponent through pace.
: Like I said, my definition of 动作派are the players who care about hitting
: a proper stroke. They spend time practice and clean up their stroke. As far
: as wining, regardless which 派， everyone wants to win, 动作派 tend to care
: about how they win. If i play like crap and still won the match, I would not
: be very happy about it.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 23 You mean at pro level everybody is a 动作派？
hitting
far
care
not
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: how is tsonga's 动作 better than Borna....? I guess "better" here is
: subjective, so to different ppl, it's different.
: Using your definition of 派（style of game), I would cartography Tsonga as
: 暴力派, he try to win the match through beating opponent through pace.
: Like I said, my definition of 动作派are the players who care about hitting
: a proper stroke. They spend time practice and clean up their stroke. As far
: as wining, regardless which 派， everyone wants to win, 动作派 tend to care
: about how they win. If i play like crap and still won the match, I would not
: be very happy about it.
|
h****5
发帖数: 174 | 24 我猜9岁的(黑衣服)赢,大概6:3,6:2之类的.
这Video是白衣服孩子的highlights,估计其它的points被打得不成样子
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 不要人肉，猜一下比分。
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr8bkOpji0M
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 25 there are still glitches... but they are good at what they do, so they are
able to "cover up" those glitches well... so well, it may not be consider "
glitches" to them....
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: pro的动作我看起来都很潇洒，呵呵
: 那个阔少叫啥来着其实也挺帅的
:
: hitting
: far
: care
: not
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 26 It's more of a ratio. Borna's game style suits his style. Topspin grinding,
with excellent court coverage and good angles.
Tsonga, on the other hand, it's painful to see him lose some matches. If
Murray plays him, he just need to keep pushing, and Tsonga will just UE
the match away. No adjustment on key points or on momentum swings. No
"working the point". Everything is to be done in a few strokes. All
overhead will be hit at 120mph (to make UEs occasionally), even though
70mph would be enough. All forehand winners will be hit the hardest.
hitting
far
care
not
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: how is tsonga's 动作 better than Borna....? I guess "better" here is
: subjective, so to different ppl, it's different.
: Using your definition of 派（style of game), I would cartography Tsonga as
: 暴力派, he try to win the match through beating opponent through pace.
: Like I said, my definition of 动作派are the players who care about hitting
: a proper stroke. They spend time practice and clean up their stroke. As far
: as wining, regardless which 派， everyone wants to win, 动作派 tend to care
: about how they win. If i play like crap and still won the match, I would not
: be very happy about it.
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 27 pretty much. As I mentioned early all ready, these type of classification is
more for lower levels to poke fun at each other. Above 5.0, it really is
irrelevant.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: You mean at pro level everybody is a 动作派？
:
: hitting
: far
: care
: not
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 28 if you want to dive into pros, I would say Tsonga's strokes has more
glitches than Borna's stroke.
do you really think “无脑”can make it to the top pro level....?
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: It's more of a ratio. Borna's game style suits his style. Topspin grinding,
: with excellent court coverage and good angles.
: Tsonga, on the other hand, it's painful to see him lose some matches. If
: Murray plays him, he just need to keep pushing, and Tsonga will just UE
: the match away. No adjustment on key points or on momentum swings. No
: "working the point". Everything is to be done in a few strokes. All
: overhead will be hit at 120mph (to make UEs occasionally), even though
: 70mph would be enough. All forehand winners will be hit the hardest.
:
: hitting
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 29 Ok, I see the difference now.
In your definition, the higher NTRP it is, the less non-动作派 there will
be, since most of ws派 would hit a ceiling before turning pro. People
like Santoro are rare.
In my definition, 动作派 has about the same % among all levels, while
the % decreases when reaching 7.0, since most people are balanced there
(in order to survive). True-动作派 like Tsonga or Gulbis are rare.
is
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: pretty much. As I mentioned early all ready, these type of classification is
: more for lower levels to poke fun at each other. Above 5.0, it really is
: irrelevant.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 30 Yes, says Safin, philippoussis, Ivansevic etc.
"We don't need to work on games and will still beat you, losers!"
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: if you want to dive into pros, I would say Tsonga's strokes has more
: glitches than Borna's stroke.
: do you really think “无脑”can make it to the top pro level....?
|
|
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 31 Add Isner.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Yes, says Safin, philippoussis, Ivansevic etc.
: "We don't need to work on games and will still beat you, losers!"
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 32 you use "动作"派 as a style of play, where I use how proper the 动作， and
how much time one spend to polish that 动作 to classify as 动作派。
have you ever thought about there are glitches in Tsanga or Gulbis's stroke,
that's why they have to play the way they play? It is to hide their
glitches, or end the point with pace before the opponent can exploit those
glitches.... some of the glitches only come about when games are tight and
player start to get nervous...
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Ok, I see the difference now.
: In your definition, the higher NTRP it is, the less non-动作派 there will
: be, since most of ws派 would hit a ceiling before turning pro. People
: like Santoro are rare.
: In my definition, 动作派 has about the same % among all levels, while
: the % decreases when reaching 7.0, since most people are balanced there
: (in order to survive). True-动作派 like Tsonga or Gulbis are rare.
:
: is
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 33 if you is us WSNs, sure, but do you believes that they don't work on their
games and still can beat other top pros? Do you think they go into the game
without a game plan, and just hit the crap out of the ball and expect come
on top?
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Yes, says Safin, philippoussis, Ivansevic etc.
: "We don't need to work on games and will still beat you, losers!"
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 34 Yes, I can see the difference now.
Yes, I know they have glitches. But my definition isn't about the glitches.
It's more like 三板斧派。Their strokes are just too good for ATP #50, so
they win. Not winning by playing smart.
There are other players with few glitches but still fall into my category,
Like Dimitrov, Ferrer. The biggest 动作派 is Monfils. He is improving now
finally.
stroke,
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: you use "动作"派 as a style of play, where I use how proper the 动作， and
: how much time one spend to polish that 动作 to classify as 动作派。
: have you ever thought about there are glitches in Tsanga or Gulbis's stroke,
: that's why they have to play the way they play? It is to hide their
: glitches, or end the point with pace before the opponent can exploit those
: glitches.... some of the glitches only come about when games are tight and
: player start to get nervous...
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 35 I really doubt how much effort they put into working on the games.
Just look at Monfils. He enjoys more about hot shots like this than winning:
game
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: if you is us WSNs, sure, but do you believes that they don't work on their
: games and still can beat other top pros? Do you think they go into the game
: without a game plan, and just hit the crap out of the ball and expect come
: on top?
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 36 player who has proper 动作，you don't consider them as 动作派。 player who
has glitches in their stroke, but just hit the crap of the ball to win cuz
they 动作may get exploit if rally drags on, yet you consider them as 动作派
。。。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Yes, I can see the difference now.
: Yes, I know they have glitches. But my definition isn't about the glitches.
: It's more like 三板斧派。Their strokes are just too good for ATP #50, so
: they win. Not winning by playing smart.
: There are other players with few glitches but still fall into my category,
: Like Dimitrov, Ferrer. The biggest 动作派 is Monfils. He is improving now
: finally.
:
: stroke,
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 37 Everybody has some glitches. Dimitrov and Ferrer's glitches are below
average. They are not afraid of long rallies.
How about Fognini as an example then?
who
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: player who has proper 动作，you don't consider them as 动作派。 player who
: has glitches in their stroke, but just hit the crap of the ball to win cuz
: they 动作may get exploit if rally drags on, yet you consider them as 动作派
: 。。。
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 38 maybe cuz they work too much on their game, they became "insane" at times
lol
winning:
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I really doubt how much effort they put into working on the games.
: Just look at Monfils. He enjoys more about hot shots like this than winning:
:
: game
|
h******n
发帖数: 734 | 39 Thing is even the top of atp level they still fine tune the strokes nadal
djokovic win more matches simply by changing the serve |
d*g
发帖数: 16592 | 40 我觉得老肯是这个意思，
首先，球员的战斗力这么衡量，打个比方，武器库里兵器没件都有一个杀伤力值，这个
球员的战斗力值就是他所以武器的杀伤力值的总和。当然如果精细计算，各种武器还有
权重，和使用频率有关。比如手枪匕首的权重可能比高射炮的要大。
比如两个球员都只能用正手上旋打point，不能用其他技术，然后球员A得到10分，球员
B只得到8分，那么上旋这个武器的杀伤值球员A是10的话，球员B就是8.另外各项技术比
赛中使用频率有差别，发球正手就是手枪匕首，高压放小球可能就是高射炮。
一个球员只能打赢战斗力值远远小于自己的球员，那么很大概率他就是个动作派。 |
