f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 1 yes, i know there're quite some good bots out there already and FTP bans a
lot of them.
my buddy won $100 last night from his downloaded bot in micro stakes, which
i laughed and told him to be careful with FTP.
but if we as a small group, write a very custom one for small-scale usage,
it may work well:
1) we'll still play some hands here and there, and auto-pilot only at other
times. it'll be difficult for FTP to track;
2) our bot may not be complicated enough and big winner, but it'll easily
save our time, and accomplish ironman/blackcard or whatever easily by just
breaking even;
3) time saving will be big;
4) bot is always more rational and more odds oriented than us. since some
say microstake is easy, using a bot makes perfect sense (or well, we're kind
of bots in some way);
5) the bot can be upgraded with more patterns/hand histories/custom settings
... | s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 2 I had wondered this for long.
At low-stake level, it should work. The chanlledge is 1) how to plus into FTP
software (read in the cards you have and the bettings). FTP can change the
encryption consistently and use two-level to make reading more difficulty. But
however FTP does, the info sits on you PC (you see the cards and bettings).
and 2) PC (hot to trigger the according keystroke).
The logic surely is critical. But coding is straight-forward.
BTW, where did your friend download it? Is that open-sourced (we can just change/renovate the logic)? | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 3 a very good how-to article here:
http://www.codingthewheel.com/archives/how-i-built-a-working-poker-bot
as for my buddy, he downloaded from some site, they give you a trial version
for free, after X days, you have to pay them some fees.
i don't like such bots because they're commercialized and may be (if not yet
) on FTP's blacklist soon.
and our bot can be further customized, like adding chatting, browsering,
messaging, etc., fake human behaviors. it can also import data from HUD (
which is a simple DB query) and adjust its strategies against known players.
i know some ppl/sites sell hand history files too, which could be loaded
into our DB, and the bot will have more info.
FTP
But
.
change/renovate the logic)?
【在 s*********k 的大作中提到】
: I had wondered this for long.
: At low-stake level, it should work. The chanlledge is 1) how to plus into FTP
: software (read in the cards you have and the bettings). FTP can change the
: encryption consistently and use two-level to make reading more difficulty. But
: however FTP does, the info sits on you PC (you see the cards and bettings).
: and 2) PC (hot to trigger the according keystroke).
: The logic surely is critical. But coding is straight-forward.
: BTW, where did your friend download it? Is that open-sourced (we can just change/renovate the logic)?
| g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 4 FTP has very strict rule against using robot, ask your buddy use it
carefully.
which
other
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: yes, i know there're quite some good bots out there already and FTP bans a
: lot of them.
: my buddy won $100 last night from his downloaded bot in micro stakes, which
: i laughed and told him to be careful with FTP.
: but if we as a small group, write a very custom one for small-scale usage,
: it may work well:
: 1) we'll still play some hands here and there, and auto-pilot only at other
: times. it'll be difficult for FTP to track;
: 2) our bot may not be complicated enough and big winner, but it'll easily
: save our time, and accomplish ironman/blackcard or whatever easily by just
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 hehe, i told him already and that's why i said don't use public bots.
i believe what the author said in the article, if you play long enough poker
online, you must have played with some bots.
【在 g**s 的大作中提到】
: FTP has very strict rule against using robot, ask your buddy use it
: carefully.
:
: which
: other
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 6 支持啊,想参与
poker
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: hehe, i told him already and that's why i said don't use public bots.
: i believe what the author said in the article, if you play long enough poker
: online, you must have played with some bots.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 7 if you can hide from ftp's detection, you are basicly digging a gold mine
with minimum risk. any microstake can be beat by robot from my observation. | A****n
发帖数: 1367 | 8 强烈支持阿 想了很久了
1。保证2个以上的账号 2。只打micro-small stake,
回报远大于风险，报名开发
which
other
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: yes, i know there're quite some good bots out there already and FTP bans a
: lot of them.
: my buddy won $100 last night from his downloaded bot in micro stakes, which
: i laughed and told him to be careful with FTP.
: but if we as a small group, write a very custom one for small-scale usage,
: it may work well:
: 1) we'll still play some hands here and there, and auto-pilot only at other
: times. it'll be difficult for FTP to track;
: 2) our bot may not be complicated enough and big winner, but it'll easily
: save our time, and accomplish ironman/blackcard or whatever easily by just
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 9 Now the question is here. Why a robot can beat microstake but 80% of player who plays it
can't? WHY WHY WHY? lol | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 10 go read that article, it explains why FTP can't block it from technical
standpoint.
not even microstake, the poker bot created by univ. of alberta beat pros
like phil laak by large margin.
this bot is much simpler than "deep blue" in chess.
.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: if you can hide from ftp's detection, you are basicly digging a gold mine
: with minimum risk. any microstake can be beat by robot from my observation.
| | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 11 among you guys, who has extensive Windows C/C++ background?
if not, hiring someone from china is not a bad idea, my estimate is this
will take about 2 months full-time to have a working one (by no way a
winning or breaking even one yet).
【在 A****n 的大作中提到】
: 强烈支持阿 想了很久了
: 1。保证2个以上的账号 2。只打micro-small stake,
: 回报远大于风险，报名开发
:
: which
: other
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 12 why a small program called "calculator" can calc 4345395*335949/234543 in a
mill sec, and no human can? lol.
player who plays it
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Now the question is here. Why a robot can beat microstake but 80% of player who plays it
: can't? WHY WHY WHY? lol
| A****n
发帖数: 1367 | 13 国内顾人很不错，最最关键的是省时间，但是还是需要有人维护和更新
不能每个补丁都回去找人改
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: among you guys, who has extensive Windows C/C++ background?
: if not, hiring someone from china is not a bad idea, my estimate is this
: will take about 2 months full-time to have a working one (by no way a
: winning or breaking even one yet).
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 14 This is exactly proved my point on the other thread. Poker is a very simple
game with limited skill involved compare to chess, goes or bridge even
at highest level.
p.s limited skill does not mean it does not require skill. It is just a game
that anyone with a fuctional brain can pick it up very fast to beat general
"dumb population". when it gets higher, the "dumb population" gets smarter,
it get more difficult, then it becomes very very small edges that can only
be shown with very small win rate over a long time. Now why the "dumb
population" does not improve as a whole? I do not know.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: why a small program called "calculator" can calc 4345395*335949/234543 in a
: mill sec, and no human can? lol.
:
: player who plays it
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 what? does poker require this type of calculation? To pick out best
decision out of whooping 81 options really does not require much computation
power. Even if you set 3 different bet sizing. It is not much to compute.
The computing power deep blue need is because all the different moves adds
up millions of decision trees which it has to optimize. to compare poker with chess is just silly.
a
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: why a small program called "calculator" can calc 4345395*335949/234543 in a
: mill sec, and no human can? lol.
:
: player who plays it
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 16 no, you don't see why a bot can do better:
1) it can calc way much faster than a human (let him be a pro or you), when
you spend 5 secs to calc odds/EV or even tank for longer, bot can do it in 0
.00001 sec;
2) it can analyze historical data much better/faster than you. you can rely
on your past "experience" or HUD to get some "subjective" ideas of what your
opponent is doing (AND, in X secs?) for bot, it can "remember" millions of
hands and thousands of hands/patterns of this particular player, and quickly
choose the optimal decision;
3) a bot can learn, if you import millions of hands from durrrr, gus,
jungleman, etc, a bot can be configured to play just like them or a mixture
style of them (the bot my buddy downloaded is already doing this). can you?
4) a bot has no idea of tilt or "running hot/bad", and can stop at any set
win/loss level without any problem;
5) a bot can play 24*7*52, X tables, Y accounts, Z sites, prefect for
rakeback/bonus even if it's a low intelligent one, can you?
.......
computation
with chess is just silly.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: what? does poker require this type of calculation? To pick out best
: decision out of whooping 81 options really does not require much computation
: power. Even if you set 3 different bet sizing. It is not much to compute.
: The computing power deep blue need is because all the different moves adds
: up millions of decision trees which it has to optimize. to compare poker with chess is just silly.
:
: a
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 17 we need someone like yjj who knows poker/technology/requirments well to
manage this project on site, hehe.
【在 A****n 的大作中提到】
: 国内顾人很不错，最最关键的是省时间，但是还是需要有人维护和更新
: 不能每个补丁都回去找人改
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 18 If you include the HUD information, this will be a lot more advanced than I
thought. The win rate will be much higher too. I was thinking that you can
get a winning robot without even considering past data. Simply using your hand, board texture and opponents' action can beat micro stake even though the win rate might be smaller.
among all your listed 1) computer has no obvious advantange over human. 2)3
) might not be needed to become a winning robot. The more complicated we make
it, the more debug and testing needed. If some error happens, we will be
losing $$ instead of winning. 4)5) is obvious advantage.
when
0
rely
your
of
quickly
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: no, you don't see why a bot can do better:
: 1) it can calc way much faster than a human (let him be a pro or you), when
: you spend 5 secs to calc odds/EV or even tank for longer, bot can do it in 0
: .00001 sec;
: 2) it can analyze historical data much better/faster than you. you can rely
: on your past "experience" or HUD to get some "subjective" ideas of what your
: opponent is doing (AND, in X secs?) for bot, it can "remember" millions of
: hands and thousands of hands/patterns of this particular player, and quickly
: choose the optimal decision;
: 3) a bot can learn, if you import millions of hands from durrrr, gus,
| l***o
发帖数: 302 | 19 I want to join this one. Sounds fun. | g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 20 I believe from technical standpoint, FTP can't block it.
However there a lot got caught by FTP, why and how? If it get caught, what
fix needs to be put in?
Can we just buy some existing one and avoid doing everything from scratch?
If we are serious, there are some homeworks need to be done.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: go read that article, it explains why FTP can't block it from technical
: standpoint.
: not even microstake, the poker bot created by univ. of alberta beat pros
: like phil laak by large margin.
: this bot is much simpler than "deep blue" in chess.
:
: .
| | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 21 without HUD/hand history integration, this bot would still work, but mostly
only as a replacement of you, you "teach" it how to play like you and go
sleep. we can only get partial benefits from it then.
the real power of bot comes in HUD analysis and self-learning. HUD one is
obvious, self-learning can push the play forward like rocket. we may learn a
"new" trick or fix 3 leaks every month (pretty good progress), for bot? it
"learned" them last week when we imported that 1 million hands from those
stable winners (don't even need to be durrrr or close).
for example, for us, we may feel we're complicated enough to play AA in 3 or
5 ways in such and such situations (and believe it's the "correct" play), a
bot can do it in X ways based on more info., and never feels the same way.
I
hand, board texture and opponents' action can beat micro stake even though
the win rate might be smaller.
)3
make
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: If you include the HUD information, this will be a lot more advanced than I
: thought. The win rate will be much higher too. I was thinking that you can
: get a winning robot without even considering past data. Simply using your hand, board texture and opponents' action can beat micro stake even though the win rate might be smaller.
: among all your listed 1) computer has no obvious advantange over human. 2)3
: ) might not be needed to become a winning robot. The more complicated we make
: it, the more debug and testing needed. If some error happens, we will be
: losing $$ instead of winning. 4)5) is obvious advantage.
:
: when
: 0
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 22 in FTP's newest Q&A on 2+2. doug from ftp said, ftp can detect any client
side 3rd party software if I understand it correctly.
【在 g**s 的大作中提到】
: I believe from technical standpoint, FTP can't block it.
: However there a lot got caught by FTP, why and how? If it get caught, what
: fix needs to be put in?
: Can we just buy some existing one and avoid doing everything from scratch?
: If we are serious, there are some homeworks need to be done.
| g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 23 From my understanding, pretty easy to implement the bot, very hard to not
get caught by FTP...
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: in FTP's newest Q&A on 2+2. doug from ftp said, ftp can detect any client
: side 3rd party software if I understand it correctly.
| A****n
发帖数: 1367 | 24 Many online poker players have no idea that major poker sites silently
install a browser plugin which has access to every page you visit in your
browser, and potentially every piece of information on that page (the text
of private emails; credit card numbers; user login information; etc):
Many online poker players have no idea that poker clients can and will snoop
around on your system, potentially viewing sensitive data:
By examining your list of running processes
By reading body and titlebar text from every window you have open
By taking occasional screenshots
By snooping around on your file system, and in the system registry
By doing who knows what else, since there's zero oversight.
文章看到一半，胆寒阿
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: we need someone like yjj who knows poker/technology/requirments well to
: manage this project on site, hehe.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 25 again, i highly suggest you guys go read that article, very good
explanations.
existing ones have a few problems:
1) they might be too "popular" and be investigated/blocked by FTP already.
FTP hasn't exposed what kinds of detection they use to catch bots, but if
100 multi-tablers all run a program called XXX from some IP addresses, it'll
become suspicious;
2) they normally don't come with source code, making updates/customization
much harder. to bypass FTP checks, we need some tricks embedded;
3) they're pricy although the work is not really that hard;
4) if we do make one, we need to keep it low profile and not run like crazy
(or we play in person some time in between).
a recent 2+2 post by someone, he said he's suspicious that a PS player is a
bot, because that player plays 9K hands everyday in a single session (never
like 3K here or 2K there). somebody replied and said the "bot" chats with
him before, so this concern is not valid. LOL, that's easy, just custom the
pot to type something like "nh" or even "u lucky sucker" once in a while.
PS replied and said they didn't find anything wrong in review. well, how
much do they really care if it's a single user?
【在 g**s 的大作中提到】
: I believe from technical standpoint, FTP can't block it.
: However there a lot got caught by FTP, why and how? If it get caught, what
: fix needs to be put in?
: Can we just buy some existing one and avoid doing everything from scratch?
: If we are serious, there are some homeworks need to be done.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 26 after reading the article, i'd call this bluffing.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: in FTP's newest Q&A on 2+2. doug from ftp said, ftp can detect any client
: side 3rd party software if I understand it correctly.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 27 hehe, what the author didn't say is this:
"dear readers, if you're reading this bot article now on the computer with
FTP installed, too sad, your account will be either banned or get 10 bad
beats in a row...kidding? no, they've read your online banking statement too
, and know you have more money to deposit."
snoop
【在 A****n 的大作中提到】
: Many online poker players have no idea that major poker sites silently
: install a browser plugin which has access to every page you visit in your
: browser, and potentially every piece of information on that page (the text
: of private emails; credit card numbers; user login information; etc):
: Many online poker players have no idea that poker clients can and will snoop
: around on your system, potentially viewing sensitive data:
: By examining your list of running processes
: By reading body and titlebar text from every window you have open
: By taking occasional screenshots
: By snooping around on your file system, and in the system registry
| s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 28 I have basic coding in JAVA, such as connection to HU and get/do statistics, build up the logic. But not plug in PC systerm.
I believe FTP is built on JAVA.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: among you guys, who has extensive Windows C/C++ background?
: if not, hiring someone from china is not a bad idea, my estimate is this
: will take about 2 months full-time to have a working one (by no way a
: winning or breaking even one yet).
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 29 先做个最简单的,打abc poker的bot就行了, 不要想一步到位
I
hand, board texture and opponents' action can beat micro stake even though
the win rate might be smaller.
)3
make
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: If you include the HUD information, this will be a lot more advanced than I
: thought. The win rate will be much higher too. I was thinking that you can
: get a winning robot without even considering past data. Simply using your hand, board texture and opponents' action can beat micro stake even though the win rate might be smaller.
: among all your listed 1) computer has no obvious advantange over human. 2)3
: ) might not be needed to become a winning robot. The more complicated we make
: it, the more debug and testing needed. If some error happens, we will be
: losing $$ instead of winning. 4)5) is obvious advantage.
:
: when
: 0
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 30 I agree with 梨叔. Fryking's idea seems good but the upfront cost is too
much. Additionally, this type of complicated system will require constant
maintain in case ftp patch screw up the program, which is additional cost.
If ftp does detect it, then all the investment would be gone. If the system
is too good, it might also become suspicious over time. Make it simple
and make it abc. It's main job is to win out small winrate + rake over long
period of time. relative less reward but much less risk. If it works out, we
can use the profit to invest something bigger.
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: 先做个最简单的,打abc poker的bot就行了, 不要想一步到位
:
: I
: hand, board texture and opponents' action can beat micro stake even though
: the win rate might be smaller.
: )3
: make
| | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 31 very likely in C#, with some windows C/C++.
http://www.irishjobs.ie/Recruiters/Pocket-Kings-Ltd-3486.aspx
their dev. team is based in ireland.
statistics, build up the logic. But not plug in PC systerm.
【在 s*********k 的大作中提到】
: I have basic coding in JAVA, such as connection to HU and get/do statistics, build up the logic. But not plug in PC systerm.
: I believe FTP is built on JAVA.
|
|
