T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 1 one hand i saw in live game. hero had A9s late position. limp pot.
flop nut flush. early position a bet and a call.
what will u do? raise or slow play? |
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 2 factors to consider:
1) stack size (find the slowest way to put all your stack in gradually)
2) hero's image
3) are villians non-believers, A.K.A calling station. |
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 3 2/5 game.
early position has around 400 chips. mid position has around 800 chips.
hero got them covered with around $1200.
hero play image so far is tight and seems competent. early and mid position
seemed to be ok players as well. not crazy like.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: factors to consider:
: 1) stack size (find the slowest way to put all your stack in gradually)
: 2) hero's image
: 3) are villians non-believers, A.K.A calling station.
|
s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 4 i will miniraise. The FD will stay and so does the TP guy. The pot is so
small on flop you need to build up the pot anyhow. You cannot hope to do so
on turn (too late).
On turn, whether another same-color or not, one will stay(either check-raise
you or you X big on his). |
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 5 with the stack size the slowest way to put all stack in by river is to raise
flop. so raise~~~
if bet size is 20$.. raise to 75$ at least. |
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 6 i found it is hard to play.
i asked the question because i had almost exact situation the other day.
flop nut flush and the early position guy bet into me and i slow played and
call until the river and raised him allin he called because he flopped the
smaller flush and i was lucky because there were no board pairing or 4 card
flush so i know i had nuts all the way.
But after the hand, i think my play is absolutely wrong. if vilion has set,
then slow play give him almost free price to draw. and if he has set, flush
, or two pair, he will almost certain to call u a raise or two. slow play
can create problem that an unfortunate turn card may freeze all action from
your standpoint ( board pair, the fourth flush, etc )
in the example above, hero just called and slow played. the turn paired the
board and everyone checked, river a blank. early position bet $125, get
called by mid position. our hero just called fearing the full house.
everyone turned over their cards. three guys flopped the flush at the same
time and mid position had second nut flush! if hero played this hand faster
he could have both guys whole stack!
this hand came back to bite him later on. mid position and him went all-in a
few hands later, kk cracked his AA and he lost almost all his profit for
750. he latet went tilt and lost his whole stack. all strated with him slow
played his nuts.
so
raise
【在 s*********k 的大作中提到】
: i will miniraise. The FD will stay and so does the TP guy. The pot is so
: small on flop you need to build up the pot anyhow. You cannot hope to do so
: on turn (too late).
: On turn, whether another same-color or not, one will stay(either check-raise
: you or you X big on his).
|
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 7 you meant the fastest way, right?
raise
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: with the stack size the slowest way to put all stack in by river is to raise
: flop. so raise~~~
: if bet size is 20$.. raise to 75$ at least.
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 8 Usually I'll limp. If there's no pair on the turn and still one bet one call
, min-raise~
I rethink the situation and now I'm inclined to raising on flop.
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: one hand i saw in live game. hero had A9s late position. limp pot.
: flop nut flush. early position a bet and a call.
: what will u do? raise or slow play?
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 9 i do mean slowest way. fastest way would be allin on the flop.
We need to put all the stack in by river. if any slower than raise flop, we
won't be able to do it.. so raise
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: you meant the fastest way, right?
:
: raise
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 10 The stacks in the example are kind of deep. So raising on flop seems better.
Otherwise....
=====
When you raise flop and get a call, the caller very likely have set or made
(good) flush and maybe high flush draw.
For made (at least Q high) flush, you have very good chance to get them in
at turn or river as well, because the chance of another flush card is low
after 7 of them are already there. But I think the chance is even better if
you raise right here because they may think you're semi-bluffing with nut
flush draw (or set).
For Q high+ flush draw, they would likely fold to flop raise because they
don't have the A, and it's just a draw. Giving them a chance to catch up
seems better.
For set, they will call flop raise. If you delay to turn, you give yourself
a chance to slow down when the board is paired. But frankly I think you will
not fold at river unless there're two pairs on board because the stack is
not so deep. So raising flop then allin turn when board is not paired seems
to be the best play.
btw someone lost his rivered nut flush to my straight flush two days ago. So
check the flush texture as well...but you'll pay off no matter what :)
I guess overall it's still better to raise at flop. The simpler explanation
is you have the best hand right now and if you can get action on turn,
usually you can get it on flop as well. So make it happen earlier.
I have more questions:
1. Should you mix it up with call? I think so but maybe not very often.
2. Should you also raise with A flush draw here? I think at least sometimes.
3. Should you also raise with top set here? I think more than 50% of times.
we
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: i do mean slowest way. fastest way would be allin on the flop.
: We need to put all the stack in by river. if any slower than raise flop, we
: won't be able to do it.. so raise
|
l*****r
发帖数: 2123 | 11 if the same hand but hero is in SB, how can you do?
In detail , a limp in 30 pot, hero had AsTs with 700. BB had 350. SB is TAG
, BB just lost 350 pot to hero.
Flop Js3s4s. SB check, BB bet 20. MP called, SB called.
Turn 9d. how would SB do?
if SB check BB bet 50. MP fold. how would SB do?
if SB just called turn River is 3G. how would SB do ? |
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 12 lead turn. fire river... not sure whether I would fold to a raise river.
will depend on villian. Hard to put you on a flush if you play like this. So if he does not push too deep, i would probably call unless it is a super nit.
TAG
【在 l*****r 的大作中提到】
: if the same hand but hero is in SB, how can you do?
: In detail , a limp in 30 pot, hero had AsTs with 700. BB had 350. SB is TAG
: , BB just lost 350 pot to hero.
: Flop Js3s4s. SB check, BB bet 20. MP called, SB called.
: Turn 9d. how would SB do?
: if SB check BB bet 50. MP fold. how would SB do?
: if SB just called turn River is 3G. how would SB do ?
|
