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TexasHoldem版 - WHY AM I STUCK AT LLSNL? ZT (2+2)
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话题: making话题: my话题: am话题: decisions话题: decision
1 (共1页)
W********m
发帖数: 7793
1
Part I
It’s a question I ask myself all the time, why am I still at these levels? I feel like my thought process is definitely higher than 95% of live 200nl players, and probably a big portion of live 500nl players. I mean I can tell you what *enter famous players name here* is going to bet on HSP or WSOP. Ok, maybe that last one was a bit of a joke, but I know I used to feel like that. Seriously, though, why am I stuck in this place? Is it bankroll issues? Yes, somewhat. I do spend part of my bankroll when I should be holding on to it better. Is it tilt? Probably more so in the past as now I don’t tilt as much; as in very little. Is it an understanding of basic concepts? No, I think I have those down pretty well. Or is it decision making? Hmmm…
(I read the JMan post and it got me thinking a little about the decisions I am making. Without going into detail about that post here is the link http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19/high-stakes-pl-nl/thought-i-just-had-psych-theory-796/. I don’t want to copy cat his post, but some of the thoughts may be adopted, yet will not be plagiarized.)
I honestly feel like I should be playing 1000nl+ sometimes. Don’t we all feel like that at times? I mean I can talk the talk, walk the walk, but I am held back by my decision making at the table at lower levels. Because of that my hourly/win rate suffers. In spots I know I am beat I call off. In spots I know I have no FE I push the FE button. In spots that it’s only possible that my opponent has one or two hands I assign a wide range. And on and on the list goes. Maybe I am not as good as I think I am. I can post on 2p2 all day and tell you about this spot or that spot, but am I actually doing that at the table? Post mortem analysis is oh so easy, and when it’s not my money that’s on the line it makes it that much easier.
So what separates the guys playing 1000nl+ and me, the llsnl guy? Definitely a bankroll, that one is pretty obvious, but more importantly their decision making. I can’t give you an exact percentage or anything like that, but my guess is if I am making let’s say at least 60% good decisions in a session, the guys up top (guys that play for a living, pros) are probably making 75-80% good decisions. That’s just a guess. It could be higher or lower, but I can almost guarantee you that their decision making is better than mine. You notice though I did not assign them a 100%. I do not believe that there is anyone making 100% optimal plays. There are some that are close, but they are truly world class players and unique.
How do we improve our decision making? More or less can be added to this list, but mine are as follows: determination, focus, and goals. I sound like a Gatorade commercial right?
Determination: We need to be determined to win. Not come home and say “lookie here I won me a hundred bucks tonight.” Instead say “I made the correct decisions today and won.” I don’t care what the profit or loss was did I make the correct decisions?
Focus: We need to focus on making the correct decisions. One thing we have as live players is time. There is no 15 second decision making clock. We can analyze the hand and put our opponents on just one hand. (Forgive me 2p2 for I have sinned… I said one hand) The only time we are rushed is when someone calls clock on us…even then we have 1 minute. Not saying you can’t make an intelligent decision online, but man we sure are lucky as live players that we have so much information at our hands and lots of time to process it. We can rely on our reads a little more. We also need to focus on our opponents when out of a hand. This will help our decision making later on by zeroing in on their bet sizing, possible physical tells, and what happens when they limp, open, call a raise, etc.
Goals: We all need to ask ourselves, why do we play poker and what do we want to accomplish? For me it’s to build a roll, play higher stakes, learn more, and possibly do this as a profession. Some might call that a pipe dream, but what fun is life if we can’t dream a little. The thing to make sure you do though, at least for me, is to lead my heart and not follow it. If I follow my heart I will get caught up in what feels good at the time. If I lead my heart I will make the best decisions. Now for some it might be to just play recreational and earn a couple bucks here and there. That’s a fine goal to have just make sure that your expectations are just that. Maybe down the road you decide you want to take a shot then your goals should change then and only then. Just make sure you don’t get caught in the middle and go back and forth on it. It then becomes a hard and stressful road. Trust me been there done that (still do it…ugh).
So often, though, I sit down and lose sight of all this. I lose my determination, my focus, and sight of my goals which leads me to make bad decisions. My attention starts drifting and my determination switches from make the best decisions tonight to if I can just hit one flop against that guy. That all contradicts with my goals. If my goals were to play for fun and socialize then it wouldn’t be the worse thing in the world, but if I am setting my goals high then I need to keep my determination and focus at the same level.
How do I keep determined, focused, and goal oriented though? Tough question, and truly the only person that can answer that one’s self. For me it is to keep pushing myself. I have become stagnant and lazy in life. This has transferred over to poker when it comes to focus and determination, something that is a formula for failure. I need to push myself like never before. For someone else it might be the same thing. It might be different. You might be able to tie a string around your finger to remind yourself. It works for some people.
Determination, focus, and goals = good decision making. Good decision making = better playing. Better playing = better long term profits. Better long term profits = determination, focus and achieving goals.
Part II
Some realizations, random thoughts, and quotes.
When I wrote the first part I was in a funk. I was poker depressed. The last month has been pretty rough where I have been feeling like I have been outplayed time and time again, and I couldn’t do anything correct. In fact the whole year has been pretty much like that. I have seen horrible players, one after the other, scoop huge pots while I sit there and do nothing. After some deep thought though I finally came to the absolute realization that this game is truly about making the very best decisions. I wrote all of that in Part I, but I am not sure I was ready to eat it yet. I mean I knew it was true, but the poker variance was holding me back from believing it 100%. I did not want to post this COTM until I broke through.
We all go through those periods, and its reminders such as this COTM, or other threads/books/people/quotes, that put us back in the zone. We forget that our “superior” decision making is what makes us better than our opponents. We then become our opponents. I probably have been there a few times this year and a lot the past month. Who else is there right now?
I submitted this to Venice and he had a quote that I have read before and one I had seen for the first time. They are:
"Not everybody can play their 'A' game all the time. My difference is that my 'C' isn't that different from my 'A' game." - Chip Reese
“I'm reminded of what a buddy of mine said years ago about golf, "Venice, don't ever get mediocre at golf." His point was that if you're really bad, it doesn't matter. You know you you're going to put the ball in the water or sand trap, so it doesn't bother you that much. It is when you reach the point where you know that you could hit every shot well to break par, but you can't consistently hit that shot where the frustration starts.” - Venice (ldo)
The one from Venice hit home more than the Chip Reese comment. Think about it for a minute. How would you change the wording of that quote to more properly reflect poker (lingo)?
Where do we limit ourselves or let things get in the way? Above I mentioned my areas. I think if I hand to turn all that into a few words I would say: I play like a robot at times and it gets boring so I turn off and my decision making leaves.
Variance is a big part of people’s decision making. I think we all know that… but do you absolutely know that? Every time I play I understand variance in a new way that I never knew it before.
Tilt is another one. I think we have all been there before. Take a hot one on the river and proceed to dump everything. I once lost a huge pot so I reloaded $100 and went all in pre. Lost that. Reload $100 and went all in pre. Lost that. Repeat. I think I finally ran out of money.
Knowledge is a huge one. Sometimes we know the words but do not apply them properly. Mine is a lack of math knowledge. It may not hurt me in the biggest way, but I guarantee not knowing all the stuff that the math geniuses know does make me suffer in certain areas.
What other areas do you limit yourself or let things get in the way.? The three above are probably the most common and major. Some minor ones might be TV’s in the poker room, Cocktail Waitresses, and possibly a friend at your table that you talk to the whole time.
W********m
发帖数: 7793
2
this post is good. The discussion is even better.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/170/live-low-stakes-nl/cotm-n
H****r
发帖数: 2801
3
wow, this guy is serious!
For me the low-buyin games are just more relaxed. Played some 2-5 games
before did not bad. Not saying I beat that level, just positive overall
result. My feeling is that 1-2 games are sometime "ruined" by those terrible
players, "fishes" so to speak, and I get lazy in the end...

? I feel like my thought process is definitely higher than 95% of live 200nl
players, and probably a big portion of live 500nl players. I mean I can
tell you what *enter famous players name here* is going to bet on HSP or
WSOP. Ok, maybe that last one was a bit of a joke, but I know I used to feel
like that. Seriously, though, why am I stuck in this place? Is it bankroll
issues? Yes, somewhat. I do spend part of my bankro: ll when I should be
holding on to it better. Is it tilt? Probably more so in the past as now I
don’t tilt as much; as in very little. Is it an understanding of basic
concepts? No, I think I have those down pretty well. Or is it decision
making? Hmmm…
I am making. Without going into detail about that post here is the link http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19/high-stakes-pl-nl/thought-i-just-had-psych-theory-796/. I don’t want to copy cat his post, but some of the thoughts may be adopted, yet will not be plagiarized.)
feel like that at times? I mean I can talk the talk, walk the walk, but I am
held back by my decision making at the table at lower levels. Because of
that my hourly/win rate suffers. In spots I know I am beat I call off. In
spots I know I have no FE I push the FE button. In spots that it’s only
possible that my opponent has one or two hands I assign a wide range. And on
and on the list goes. Maybe I am not as good as I t: hink I am. I can post
on 2p2 all day and tell you about this spot or that spot, but am I actually
doing that at the table? Post mortem analysis is oh so easy, and when it’s
not my money that’s on the line it makes it that much easier.
Definitely a bankroll, that one is pretty obvious, but more importantly
their decision making. I can’t give you an exact percentage or anything
like that, but my guess is if I am making let’s say at least 60% good
decisions in a session, the guys up top (guys that play for a living, pros)
are probably making 75-80% good decisions. That’s just a guess. It could be
higher or lower, but I can almost guarantee you that their decis: ion
making is better than mine. You notice though I did not assign them a 100%.
I do not believe that there is anyone making 100% optimal plays. There are
some that are close, but they are truly world class players and unique.
list, but mine are as follows: determination, focus, and goals. I sound like
a Gatorade commercial right?
lookie here I won me a hundred bucks tonight.” Instead say “I made the
correct decisions today and won.” I don’t care what the profit or loss was
did I make the correct decisions?

【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Part I
: It’s a question I ask myself all the time, why am I still at these levels? I feel like my thought process is definitely higher than 95% of live 200nl players, and probably a big portion of live 500nl players. I mean I can tell you what *enter famous players name here* is going to bet on HSP or WSOP. Ok, maybe that last one was a bit of a joke, but I know I used to feel like that. Seriously, though, why am I stuck in this place? Is it bankroll issues? Yes, somewhat. I do spend part of my bankroll when I should be holding on to it better. Is it tilt? Probably more so in the past as now I don’t tilt as much; as in very little. Is it an understanding of basic concepts? No, I think I have those down pretty well. Or is it decision making? Hmmm…
: (I read the JMan post and it got me thinking a little about the decisions I am making. Without going into detail about that post here is the link http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19/high-stakes-pl-nl/thought-i-just-had-psych-theory-796/. I don’t want to copy cat his post, but some of the thoughts may be adopted, yet will not be plagiarized.)
: I honestly feel like I should be playing 1000nl+ sometimes. Don’t we all feel like that at times? I mean I can talk the talk, walk the walk, but I am held back by my decision making at the table at lower levels. Because of that my hourly/win rate suffers. In spots I know I am beat I call off. In spots I know I have no FE I push the FE button. In spots that it’s only possible that my opponent has one or two hands I assign a wide range. And on and on the list goes. Maybe I am not as good as I think I am. I can post on 2p2 all day and tell you about this spot or that spot, but am I actually doing that at the table? Post mortem analysis is oh so easy, and when it’s not my money that’s on the line it makes it that much easier.
: So what separates the guys playing 1000nl+ and me, the llsnl guy? Definitely a bankroll, that one is pretty obvious, but more importantly their decision making. I can’t give you an exact percentage or anything like that, but my guess is if I am making let’s say at least 60% good decisions in a session, the guys up top (guys that play for a living, pros) are probably making 75-80% good decisions. That’s just a guess. It could be higher or lower, but I can almost guarantee you that their decision making is better than mine. You notice though I did not assign them a 100%. I do not believe that there is anyone making 100% optimal plays. There are some that are close, but they are truly world class players and unique.
: How do we improve our decision making? More or less can be added to this list, but mine are as follows: determination, focus, and goals. I sound like a Gatorade commercial right?
: Determination: We need to be determined to win. Not come home and say “lookie here I won me a hundred bucks tonight.” Instead say “I made the correct decisions today and won.” I don’t care what the profit or loss was did I make the correct decisions?
: Focus: We need to focus on making the correct decisions. One thing we have as live players is time. There is no 15 second decision making clock. We can analyze the hand and put our opponents on just one hand. (Forgive me 2p2 for I have sinned… I said one hand) The only time we are rushed is when someone calls clock on us…even then we have 1 minute. Not saying you can’t make an intelligent decision online, but man we sure are lucky as live players that we have so much information at our hands and lots of time to process it. We can rely on our reads a little more. We also need to focus on our opponents when out of a hand. This will help our decision making later on by zeroing in on their bet sizing, possible physical tells, and what happens when they limp, open, call a raise, etc.
: Goals: We all need to ask ourselves, why do we play poker and what do we want to accomplish? For me it’s to build a roll, play higher stakes, learn more, and possibly do this as a profession. Some might call that a pipe dream, but what fun is life if we can’t dream a little. The thing to make sure you do though, at least for me, is to lead my heart and not follow it. If I follow my heart I will get caught up in what feels good at the time. If I lead my heart I will make the best decisions. Now for some it might be to just play recreational and earn a couple bucks here and there. That’s a fine goal to have just make sure that your expectations are just that. Maybe down the road you decide you want to take a shot then your goals should change then and only then. Just make sure you don’t get caught in the middle and go back and forth on it. It then becomes a hard and stressful road. Trust me been there done that (still do it…ugh).
: So often, though, I sit down and lose sight of all this. I lose my determination, my focus, and sight of my goals which leads me to make bad decisions. My attention starts drifting and my determination switches from make the best decisions tonight to if I can just hit one flop against that guy. That all contradicts with my goals. If my goals were to play for fun and socialize then it wouldn’t be the worse thing in the world, but if I am setting my goals high then I need to keep my determination and focus at the same level.

W********m
发帖数: 7793
4
取之精华, 弃之糟粕

【在 H****r 的大作中提到】
: wow, this guy is serious!
: For me the low-buyin games are just more relaxed. Played some 2-5 games
: before did not bad. Not saying I beat that level, just positive overall
: result. My feeling is that 1-2 games are sometime "ruined" by those terrible
: players, "fishes" so to speak, and I get lazy in the end...
:
: ? I feel like my thought process is definitely higher than 95% of live 200nl
: players, and probably a big portion of live 500nl players. I mean I can
: tell you what *enter famous players name here* is going to bet on HSP or
: WSOP. Ok, maybe that last one was a bit of a joke, but I know I used to feel

p**********1
发帖数: 1458
5
focus...really important, I cannot hit every shot well, but I can hit every
shot into the water without focus.
It is when you reach the point where you know that you could hit every shot
well to break par, but you can't consistently hit that shot where the
frustration starts.

? I feel like my thought process is definitely higher than 95% of live 200nl
players, and probably a big portion of live 500nl players. I mean I can
tell you what *enter famous players name here* is going to bet on HSP or
WSOP. Ok, maybe that last one was a bit of a joke, but I know I used to feel
like that. Seriously, though, why am I stuck in this place? Is it bankroll
issues? Yes, somewhat. I do spend part of my bankro: ll when I should be
holding on to it better. Is it tilt? Probably more so in the past as now I
don’t tilt as much; as in very little. Is it an understanding of basic
concepts? No, I think I have those down pretty well. Or is it decision
making? Hmmm…
I am making. Without going into detail about that post here is the link http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19/high-stakes-pl-nl/thought-i-just-had-psych-theory-796/. I don’t want to copy cat his post, but some of the thoughts may be adopted, yet will not be plagiarized.)
feel like that at times? I mean I can talk the talk, walk the walk, but I am
held back by my decision making at the table at lower levels. Because of
that my hourly/win rate suffers. In spots I know I am beat I call off. In
spots I know I have no FE I push the FE button. In spots that it’s only
possible that my opponent has one or two hands I assign a wide range. And on
and on the list goes. Maybe I am not as good as I t: hink I am. I can post
on 2p2 all day and tell you about this spot or that spot, but am I actually
doing that at the table? Post mortem analysis is oh so easy, and when it’s
not my money that’s on the line it makes it that much easier.
Definitely a bankroll, that one is pretty obvious, but more importantly
their decision making. I can’t give you an exact percentage or anything
like that, but my guess is if I am making let’s say at least 60% good
decisions in a session, the guys up top (guys that play for a living, pros)
are probably making 75-80% good decisions. That’s just a guess. It could be
higher or lower, but I can almost guarantee you that their decis: ion
making is better than mine. You notice though I did not assign them a 100%.
I do not believe that there is anyone making 100% optimal plays. There are
some that are close, but they are truly world class players and unique.
list, but mine are as follows: determination, focus, and goals. I sound like
a Gatorade commercial right?
lookie here I won me a hundred bucks tonight.” Instead say “I made the
correct decisions today and won.” I don’t care what the profit or loss was
did I make the correct decisions?

【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Part I
: It’s a question I ask myself all the time, why am I still at these levels? I feel like my thought process is definitely higher than 95% of live 200nl players, and probably a big portion of live 500nl players. I mean I can tell you what *enter famous players name here* is going to bet on HSP or WSOP. Ok, maybe that last one was a bit of a joke, but I know I used to feel like that. Seriously, though, why am I stuck in this place? Is it bankroll issues? Yes, somewhat. I do spend part of my bankroll when I should be holding on to it better. Is it tilt? Probably more so in the past as now I don’t tilt as much; as in very little. Is it an understanding of basic concepts? No, I think I have those down pretty well. Or is it decision making? Hmmm…
: (I read the JMan post and it got me thinking a little about the decisions I am making. Without going into detail about that post here is the link http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19/high-stakes-pl-nl/thought-i-just-had-psych-theory-796/. I don’t want to copy cat his post, but some of the thoughts may be adopted, yet will not be plagiarized.)
: I honestly feel like I should be playing 1000nl+ sometimes. Don’t we all feel like that at times? I mean I can talk the talk, walk the walk, but I am held back by my decision making at the table at lower levels. Because of that my hourly/win rate suffers. In spots I know I am beat I call off. In spots I know I have no FE I push the FE button. In spots that it’s only possible that my opponent has one or two hands I assign a wide range. And on and on the list goes. Maybe I am not as good as I think I am. I can post on 2p2 all day and tell you about this spot or that spot, but am I actually doing that at the table? Post mortem analysis is oh so easy, and when it’s not my money that’s on the line it makes it that much easier.
: So what separates the guys playing 1000nl+ and me, the llsnl guy? Definitely a bankroll, that one is pretty obvious, but more importantly their decision making. I can’t give you an exact percentage or anything like that, but my guess is if I am making let’s say at least 60% good decisions in a session, the guys up top (guys that play for a living, pros) are probably making 75-80% good decisions. That’s just a guess. It could be higher or lower, but I can almost guarantee you that their decision making is better than mine. You notice though I did not assign them a 100%. I do not believe that there is anyone making 100% optimal plays. There are some that are close, but they are truly world class players and unique.
: How do we improve our decision making? More or less can be added to this list, but mine are as follows: determination, focus, and goals. I sound like a Gatorade commercial right?
: Determination: We need to be determined to win. Not come home and say “lookie here I won me a hundred bucks tonight.” Instead say “I made the correct decisions today and won.” I don’t care what the profit or loss was did I make the correct decisions?
: Focus: We need to focus on making the correct decisions. One thing we have as live players is time. There is no 15 second decision making clock. We can analyze the hand and put our opponents on just one hand. (Forgive me 2p2 for I have sinned… I said one hand) The only time we are rushed is when someone calls clock on us…even then we have 1 minute. Not saying you can’t make an intelligent decision online, but man we sure are lucky as live players that we have so much information at our hands and lots of time to process it. We can rely on our reads a little more. We also need to focus on our opponents when out of a hand. This will help our decision making later on by zeroing in on their bet sizing, possible physical tells, and what happens when they limp, open, call a raise, etc.
: Goals: We all need to ask ourselves, why do we play poker and what do we want to accomplish? For me it’s to build a roll, play higher stakes, learn more, and possibly do this as a profession. Some might call that a pipe dream, but what fun is life if we can’t dream a little. The thing to make sure you do though, at least for me, is to lead my heart and not follow it. If I follow my heart I will get caught up in what feels good at the time. If I lead my heart I will make the best decisions. Now for some it might be to just play recreational and earn a couple bucks here and there. That’s a fine goal to have just make sure that your expectations are just that. Maybe down the road you decide you want to take a shot then your goals should change then and only then. Just make sure you don’t get caught in the middle and go back and forth on it. It then becomes a hard and stressful road. Trust me been there done that (still do it…ugh).
: So often, though, I sit down and lose sight of all this. I lose my determination, my focus, and sight of my goals which leads me to make bad decisions. My attention starts drifting and my determination switches from make the best decisions tonight to if I can just hit one flop against that guy. That all contradicts with my goals. If my goals were to play for fun and socialize then it wouldn’t be the worse thing in the world, but if I am setting my goals high then I need to keep my determination and focus at the same level.

W********m
发帖数: 7793
6
呵呵。 Someone ought to give some love to this. This example is great!

focus...really important, I cannot hit every shot well, but I can hit every
shot into the water without focus.
It is when you reach the point where you know that you could hit every shot
well to break par, but you can't consistently hit that shot where the
frustration starts.

【在 p**********1 的大作中提到】
: focus...really important, I cannot hit every shot well, but I can hit every
: shot into the water without focus.
: It is when you reach the point where you know that you could hit every shot
: well to break par, but you can't consistently hit that shot where the
: frustration starts.
:
: ? I feel like my thought process is definitely higher than 95% of live 200nl
: players, and probably a big portion of live 500nl players. I mean I can
: tell you what *enter famous players name here* is going to bet on HSP or
: WSOP. Ok, maybe that last one was a bit of a joke, but I know I used to feel

1 (共1页)
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