c****1
发帖数: 457 | 1 Too many querrel posts in last few days. We need focus more on poker itself.
Here is one hand I played in Pittsburgh river casino.
2/5 no cap,4 handed. I had 1500 and villain had more. villain is a descent
regular. The only leak i observe is that he didnt thin value bet on river.
preflop, i raised to 15 with Jd,8d on cutoff(UTG), button folded, villain at
SB and BB called
flop: Kd,Qd,9h, villain led out with 25, BB folded. I raised to 80, villain
reraised to 200, I thoughtfor a while and call.
turn: 3s, blank, check , check
river: Qc, check, I thought for bluffing but gave up.
what would you do on flop, turn, river? what villain's range do you pin down?
I played a lot with the villain. He is aggressive and raise a lot of hands
with nuts, draws. But when he raise with air on flop, most of times he is in
position. | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 2 This hand is played so strangely by villain. My guess is the strongest hand
villain can have is k9 with the turn and river check? I guess he could also
have kj/k10 or ak. Definitely should value bet river with a Q if he has it. I
would probably bet turn when check to. His hand does not look too strong
after he checks turn your hand has good equity but has no showdown value. I
think you can rep 2 pair fine with the flop call reraise since the stack is
fairly deep.
Can not really understand why villain reraise on the flop then shut down on
turn when it is pretty much a blank. I guess this is a common live player
leak. He reraise and want to end the hand right there on the flop with a
semi-strong hand and then completely got lost when it gets called. 当然也不
排除他slow play 10J , 希望你turn 下注， 他check raise. But it is unlikely
since he end the action on the flop and he should not expect you bet turn
very frequent. | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 3 I would probably big bet river some % of the time for bluffing to rep
rivered boat after betting the turn reping 2 pair. Once you check turn, i
don't like bluffing river any more since your hand look too much like a
busted draw.
Some people might like to re-reraise the flop, I think the stack is too deep
for that. In fact just calling the flop can't be too bad either depending on villian's
donk range.
又胡说了两句， 见笑了。 | c******q
发帖数: 456 | 4 I don't think the river bluff is that bad even after checking the turn.
Certainly FD is in Villian's range. And he probably played the same way
after hero called his 3-bet on the flop. Putting a smaller value bet on the
river can force him to fold those hands which still beat hero.
★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs Lite 7.36 | c****1
发帖数: 457 | 5 You got the point. I am really afraid of he had TJ and check raised me on
the turn. It that case, I probably have to fold to a hand which I had good
equity.
The flop raise is another question that confused me a lot. In deep stack,
when we have strong draw, should we build a big pot or wait for our outs
coming. Another chinese player told me ," in deep stack draw is better than
over pair because you have great fold equity and you can win big when you
hit". I also saw lots of descent players check raise turn with draws when
both players are deep. in this hand, if i just call his 25 and complete my
flush or straight on turn, i probably cant win much. If a blank fall on the
turn, he is very likely double barrel, what will I do then? I put him on KQ
sort of two pairs. So MM Lao Shi, can you elaborate how to play draws in
deep stack game, all three streats? thanks in advance.
BTW, he had 9d5d
i
deep
on villian's
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: I would probably big bet river some % of the time for bluffing to rep
: rivered boat after betting the turn reping 2 pair. Once you check turn, i
: don't like bluffing river any more since your hand look too much like a
: busted draw.
: Some people might like to re-reraise the flop, I think the stack is too deep
: for that. In fact just calling the flop can't be too bad either depending on villian's
: donk range.
: 又胡说了两句， 见笑了。
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 6 这牌因为是REG打得，所以他的牌面可能性就多了。
PREFLOP:他是在SB CALL. 一定是个DECENT RANGE.
FLOP: LEAD OUT 1/2 POT,
可能性：monster hand: kk（unlikely, preflop action）, qq（unlikely, preflop action）, 99, TJ, AdTd, kq, [k9s, q9s unlikely，because
he is a reg]
value hand, ak, AdXd, KT, KJ
weak drawing hands, AJs(no diamond), ATs(no diamond)，6D7D,7D8D
weak made hands but decent enough, aq, QT, QJ, 9t, 9J,tt,jj,7D9D
bluffs, 88-22,
并且4B。only left
monster hand: kk, qq, 99, TJ, AdTd, kq, [k9s, q9s unlikely]
value hand, ak, AdXd, KT, KJ
small part of weak made hands but decent enough, aq, QT, QJ, 9t, 9J
,tt,jj (对手丢了很多marginal cards, aq, tt,jj 可能会丢到)
small part of weak drawing hands, AJs(no diamond), ATs(no diamond)(
对手用来作为新的bluff range)
turn, check/check, 对手range变化。monster hand变少。small part of weak
drawing hands可能也会变少。
river, Qc. 对手check.cmis91提出对手不愿意value bet thin on the river. 担还是
可以推断monster hand几乎没有，因为cmis在check turn之后在river不可能bet
marginal hands了。但不排除对手不bet QT,QJ, AK之类的牌,等着cmis来bet missed
draw,对手这时是break even的。
这手牌FLOP上RIASE成60-65可能更合适。turn上c/c,是一种比较保险的打法。(pot已经不小了。而且对方也会在river 上pay off 不小的bet) river上
没法说，因为对方不value bet thin,就等于是对手还是有marginal stuff 会call你。
只能下重注，赢得可能性才会比较大。如果真的是这样，还是check 比较好。[如果对
方会value bet thin，cmis在他check之后，可以用faked thin value bet 来赢这个锅
。]
个人觉得CMIS打得没什么问题。 当然，FLOP上的IMPLIED ODDS不是那么大,因为对阵
REG.
itself.
descent
.
at
villain
【在 c****1 的大作中提到】
: Too many querrel posts in last few days. We need focus more on poker itself.
: Here is one hand I played in Pittsburgh river casino.
: 2/5 no cap,4 handed. I had 1500 and villain had more. villain is a descent
: regular. The only leak i observe is that he didnt thin value bet on river.
: preflop, i raised to 15 with Jd,8d on cutoff(UTG), button folded, villain at
: SB and BB called
: flop: Kd,Qd,9h, villain led out with 25, BB folded. I raised to 80, villain
: reraised to 200, I thoughtfor a while and call.
: turn: 3s, blank, check , check
: river: Qc, check, I thought for bluffing but gave up.
| p****t
发帖数: 292 | 7 I don't play live or 300bb deep very often but I'll give it a try.
I don't like the flop raise. We are really hoping villain to just lay it
down right there which does not happen very often given the action and board
texture up to that point.
If we cannot take it down right there, I don't see many good options left
for us. If villain calls the flop, we either continue to bluff on the turn
and then we are almost committed to bluff again on the river because we have
no showdown value at all when we miss, or we check behind the turn and
pretty much give up. If villain 3bets, we are playing a big pot with a
drawing hand that can never make the nuts.
I think by just calling, we keep more weapons in our arsenal. | y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 8 You got the point. I am really afraid of he had TJ and check raised me on
the turn. It that case, I probably have to fold to a hand which I had good
equity.-----------------if he really has TJ, you do not have much equity.
Suppose 500$ pot, you only get 100$. Not only he will c/r on the turn with
the nuts, TJ in this case, but also he will c/r some nut draw, such as AdTd,
Ad9d, because he is out of position.
The flop raise is another question that confused me a lot. In deep stack,
when we have strong draw, should we build a big pot or wait for our outs
coming. ----------you can not only build the pot, but also take down the
pot with aggression.
Another chinese player told me ," in deep stack draw is better than
over pair because you have great fold equity and you can win big when you
hit". ------------definitely true. Because drawing hands know where he is at
, however, on the river, the guy with the pair does not know where he is at
on the river when scary board completes. In conclusion, drawing hands have
advantages against made hands with deep stacks. However, shallow stack poker
is much easier, because with any decent pair or draw, you can go allin on
any street without any major mistakes.
I also saw lots of descent players check raise turn with draws when
both players are deep. -----------that is another weapon, because you can
not only win his flop bet, but also his turn bet. This example is much
different from the example(130BB effective) you have already submitted. In
that case, it is not suitable to re-raise on the turn.
in this hand, if i just call his 25 and complete my
flush or straight on turn, i probably cant win much. ---------------If he
have something, he still will pay you some, but much smaller, beause the
start pot is too small. Actually, I like your c/r on the flop, and do not
let him have the habit to donk lead against you, because in that way, he
takes away your initiate and continuation bet weapon. However, against reg
who will 4bet with crap hands like him, I still think float him on the flop
is a good option.
If a blank fall on the
turn, he is very likely double barrel, what will I do then? I put him on KQ
sort of two pairs.
If you really think he got 2 pair, I think calling the turn bet is not bad.
However, if you think his range includes not only monster hands but also
some marginal crap, you should re-raise him on the turn. In this hand, you
have outers on the turn. When you float flop, and check raise on the turn,
you still have enough stack to manipulate. Therefore, c/r him on the turn is
not a bad idea.
i do not know, if you really just float him on the flop. And he has 59s, he
probably will check/call your turn bet, and evaluate the river.
So MM Lao Shi, can you elaborate how to play draws in
deep stack game, all three streats? thanks in advance.----------probably no
one can elaborate this to you, because there is too many weapons on each
street. From my knowledge, leggopoker is good place to go, they have several
coaches who won millions of dollars(cash games) online, and they are not
afraid of durrrr or any other players on the planet.
BTW, he had 9d5d ----------------- your image must be horrible, otherwise
regs will not play 59s from SB against another reg.
than
the
【在 c****1 的大作中提到】
: You got the point. I am really afraid of he had TJ and check raised me on
: the turn. It that case, I probably have to fold to a hand which I had good
: equity.
: The flop raise is another question that confused me a lot. In deep stack,
: when we have strong draw, should we build a big pot or wait for our outs
: coming. Another chinese player told me ," in deep stack draw is better than
: over pair because you have great fold equity and you can win big when you
: hit". I also saw lots of descent players check raise turn with draws when
: both players are deep. in this hand, if i just call his 25 and complete my
: flush or straight on turn, i probably cant win much. If a blank fall on the
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 9 "BTW, he had 9d5d ----------------- your image must be horrible, otherwise
regs will not play 59s from SB against another reg."
LMAO | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 10 不一定完全是cmis 形象差啊。
这个reg 可能自己都意识不到用9d5d 在sb没位置和另一个reg 玩深筹码，长期会输很
多钱的。 不管对手啥形象，都是。对手LAG的可能输得更多.
BTW, he had 9d5d ----------------- your image must be horrible, otherwise
regs will not play 59s from SB against another reg.
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: You got the point. I am really afraid of he had TJ and check raised me on
: the turn. It that case, I probably have to fold to a hand which I had good
: equity.-----------------if he really has TJ, you do not have much equity.
: Suppose 500$ pot, you only get 100$. Not only he will c/r on the turn with
: the nuts, TJ in this case, but also he will c/r some nut draw, such as AdTd,
: Ad9d, because he is out of position.
: The flop raise is another question that confused me a lot. In deep stack,
: when we have strong draw, should we build a big pot or wait for our outs
: coming. ----------you can not only build the pot, but also take down the
: pot with aggression.
| | | c****1
发帖数: 457 | 11 It's four handed game. Almost every pot is raised from utg or button.what
would you do with suited 59
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 不一定完全是cmis 形象差啊。
: 这个reg 可能自己都意识不到用9d5d 在sb没位置和另一个reg 玩深筹码，长期会输很
: 多钱的。 不管对手啥形象，都是。对手LAG的可能输得更多.
:
: BTW, he had 9d5d ----------------- your image must be horrible, otherwise
: regs will not play 59s from SB against another reg.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 12 i would fold. 95s is pretty much like 95o--junk. To play against another
reg which he does not have any edge on, I don't think it is profitable to
play deep stack out of position with 95s. 4 handed, there are plenty of
other hand that he can flat oop with. I would rather raise on the button
with it than call oop with it preflop. Deep stack, out of position vs a
competent villain, just let it go.
【在 c****1 的大作中提到】
: It's four handed game. Almost every pot is raised from utg or button.what
: would you do with suited 59
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 13 even though it is suited, it still does not change the fact that this hand
is at the bottom of all hand range.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: i would fold. 95s is pretty much like 95o--junk. To play against another
: reg which he does not have any edge on, I don't think it is profitable to
: play deep stack out of position with 95s. 4 handed, there are plenty of
: other hand that he can flat oop with. I would rather raise on the button
: with it than call oop with it preflop. Deep stack, out of position vs a
: competent villain, just let it go.
| s******e
发帖数: 44 | 14 果然是我实战经验太少了，又学会注意了deep stack的打法，感觉你筹码多了，大家要
么会攻击你要么就完全不和你玩，很纠结啊，有时候为了追求draw，特别是碰到会玩的
人，打的你真心痛苦。如果几次都没追求到draw，我就选择休息一会。
我喜欢玩reverse poker，有大牌check，marginal hand喜欢semi bluff，然后昨天一
个帖子也提醒我了，如果人家发现了，这样很容易输牌，所以一会也要注意，当然，位
置还是很重要的，希望我万年是button（窃笑中）。
这把牌我觉得看你想不想赢了，最后你都表示放手了，所以。。也减少了损失啊。但是
如果是我，我会看他的筹码吧，因为你说他是deep stack，所以你bet300-400之间，
make it like you got a Q and want him to call. If he push all in then i will
fold. I guess this make sense because you call his reraise representing you
flop pair K or pair Q,then he would probably fold.
当然了，我只是事后诸葛亮，嘿嘿。 | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 那天看了这帖没回，不过一直在想这里check turn后river bet bluff 到底好不好，
我觉得看人,看history， 如果对手玩得很差，基本读牌都不懂，我觉得可行。 对手稍
微会打点和读牌，我觉得不好，对手这里有个pair 都会叫的可能挺大的。这里有
position check turn 后，其实是把自己所有强牌的range 都check 没了。 我还是倾
向于bet turn, bluff most river. 对手这个turn 上在flop close action 的清况下
check, 也把自己的强牌都check 光了， 相反，我们在有位置的情况下， 因为筹码太
深，几乎所有强牌都可以在flop 上flat, 然后reraise/push turn。 所以在这种清况
下我们是可以bluff turn and river的, 如果都是blank。
这周末打牌抓了几个bluff, 我觉得对手在选择bluff 的spot 很不好。 特别是一些打
得还可以的对手, 可能平时和weak tight不会读牌的人打多了，乱bluff.
有一手牌，
我在sb complete QJo. 5 limpers.
flop J 6 4 flush draw.
我下12$, fold to an asian guy, 他叫. 他玩得还行. LP donk (who raise
preflop frequent and bets aggressively with air often), 加注到35$. 他翻牌前
经常加注，所以这里不大会有AJ KJ, 他要不就是trash 2 pair/set, 要不就是air 和
draw. 我叫，亚洲人想了一会儿也叫。
turn 又是个6， 我check, 都check.
river 是 off suit K. 看上去scary 其实就是blank. 除非他是KJ 或K high flush
draw. 我check, 基本上是所有bet 都call的。 结果asian guy下50$, donk fold. 因
为asian guy打得还行，他不大可能会在flop 2 pair 和set得牌面不reraise donk 的,
那么强牌都没有了， 只剩下K high flush draw out，这里他下50 还有多一点点value
bet K 的味道，不过pot odds 给我还好一点， 下大了,就更是bluff 多。 无论如何都是
秒call. call 后要他开牌，他muck, 我开J pair. 这里其实任何一个pair 都是一样
的， 如果我是A high flush draw 也是call.
这牌在没有history 的情况下就是典型bad spot to bluff. 这里倒是适合在有K的情况
下over bet for value. 这是基于对手如果会读一点牌，鱼当然不能这样打。 那天还
看见坐在我边上的 russian 女的在flop 上把Ks10s, fold 给short stack donk的70$
over shove 在Kd5s6s 牌面上， 锅里有50$。奇迹啊。 这种人当然随便bluff. 她
fold 前先让我看了，我真是干着急， 差点就说，“娘的，把牌给我，我来call."
还有一把牌，107s, several limper, 我中位，也limp. button limp.
flop 10 6 4. flush draw, all check 到我, 我后面只有button, 我下10$, button
call. 前位紧女 call.
turn 2 offsuit, 紧女 check, 我下25$. 又都叫。
river offsuit 9. 紧女 check, 我check， button 毛驴 shove 80 刀。 紧女tank
fold. 她叫了我还要想一想，kicker 可能不够好。 她盖，我秒call. 毛驴 Q8 busted
flush draw. 又是一个不看牌面乱bluff 的，top pair 可能还是我call 的 top
range。 毛驴这里不是10 9 就是bluff. 如果他是A10, 那么我就是被outplay 乐。 感谢他把紧女bluff 掉。对紧女可能我也就 50/50. 打完后，有人惊呼，“you got a tough poker mind", 其实他可能在心里骂我鱼。 我作鱼状" I have top pair. easy call!"
the
【在 c******q 的大作中提到】
: I don't think the river bluff is that bad even after checking the turn.
: Certainly FD is in Villian's range. And he probably played the same way
: after hero called his 3-bet on the flop. Putting a smaller value bet on the
: river can force him to fold those hands which still beat hero.
: ★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs Lite 7.36
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