R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 1 Problem (1) verse against Limited Atonement
12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to my
self."
John 12:32 and John 3:16 are the most powerful verses to be used to rule out
the Calvinistic doctrine of Limited Atonement. We call it 4 point Calvinis
t if a person accept other 4 points of TULIP Calvinistic doctrines except fo
r the Limited Atonement.
Calvinists changed the meaning of "this world" in John 3:16 and "all people"
in John 12:32 to meet their doctrines. "this world" and "all people" only
refer to the "elect" scattering around this world.
Whether Jesus died for all of us or only for the "elected" ones? It looks t
o me in John 11:52, the word of a Jewish high priest, "die for" and "gather
" have different meanings. John 11:51 clearly said "Jesus would die for the
nation". Did Jesus "gather" all the Jews of the nation to believe in his n
ame? obviously not! So Jesus did die for all!
11:51 He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year
he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation,
11:52 and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children
of God who are scattered abroad. |
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 2 Problem (2) fulfillment of the Isaiah
12: 34 So the crowd answered him, "We have heard from the Law that the Chris
t remains forever. How can you say that the Son of Man must be lifted up? W
ho is this Son of Man?"
12:35 So Jesus said to them, "The light is among you for a little while long
er. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. The one who w
alks in the darkness does not know where he is going.
Jesus failed to answer an important question here. Reading Isaiah 9:6-7, Je
ws believed that the Christ shall remain on David's throne forever.
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this. |
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 3 Problem (3) believe not in me
12:44 And Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me, believes not in
me but in him who sent me.
12:45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me.
Why did Jesus say this? |
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 4 太 20:16 这样，那在后的将要在前，在前的将要在后了(有古卷在此有“因为被召的人
多，选上的人少。”)。” 太 22:14 因为被召的人多，选上的人少。”
约 10:25 耶稣回答说：“我已经告诉你们，你们不信。我奉我父之名所行的事可以为
我作见证； 约 10:26 只是你们不信，因为你们不是我的羊。 约 10:27 我的羊听我的
声音，我也认识他们，他们也跟着我。 约 10:28 我又赐给他们永生；他们永不灭亡，
谁也不能从我手里把他们夺去。
约 9:39 耶稣说：“我为审判到这世上来，叫不能看见的可以看见；能看见的反瞎了眼
。” 约 9:40 同他在那里的法利赛人听见这话，就说：“难道我们也瞎了眼吗？” 约
9:41 耶稣对他们说：“你们若瞎了眼，就没有罪了；但如今你们说：‘我们能看见，
’所以你们的罪还在。”
my
out
Calvinis
fo
people"
only
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: Problem (1) verse against Limited Atonement
: 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to my
: self."
: John 12:32 and John 3:16 are the most powerful verses to be used to rule out
: the Calvinistic doctrine of Limited Atonement. We call it 4 point Calvinis
: t if a person accept other 4 points of TULIP Calvinistic doctrines except fo
: r the Limited Atonement.
: Calvinists changed the meaning of "this world" in John 3:16 and "all people"
: in John 12:32 to meet their doctrines. "this world" and "all people" only
: refer to the "elect" scattering around this world.
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 5 stay away from Calvinism
馬太福音7:13 你們要進窄門。 因為引到滅亡， 那門是寬的， 路是大的, 進 去 的 人
也 多
了眼
【在 G*******s 的大作中提到】
: 太 20:16 这样，那在后的将要在前，在前的将要在后了(有古卷在此有“因为被召的人
: 多，选上的人少。”)。” 太 22:14 因为被召的人多，选上的人少。”
: 约 10:25 耶稣回答说：“我已经告诉你们，你们不信。我奉我父之名所行的事可以为
: 我作见证； 约 10:26 只是你们不信，因为你们不是我的羊。 约 10:27 我的羊听我的
: 声音，我也认识他们，他们也跟着我。 约 10:28 我又赐给他们永生；他们永不灭亡，
: 谁也不能从我手里把他们夺去。
: 约 9:39 耶稣说：“我为审判到这世上来，叫不能看见的可以看见；能看见的反瞎了眼
: 。” 约 9:40 同他在那里的法利赛人听见这话，就说：“难道我们也瞎了眼吗？” 约
: 9:41 耶稣对他们说：“你们若瞎了眼，就没有罪了；但如今你们说：‘我们能看见，
: ’所以你们的罪还在。”
|
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 6 太 28:18 耶稣进前来，对他们说：“天上地下所有的权柄都赐给我了。 太 28:19 所
以，你们要去使万民作我的门徒，奉父子圣灵的名，给他们施洗(或作“给他们施洗，归
于父子圣灵的名。”)。 太 28:20 凡我所吩咐你们的，都教训他们遵守，我就常与你们
同在，直到世界的末了。”
可 16:19 主耶稣和他们说完了话，后来被接到天上，坐在 神的右边。
Chris
W
long
w
Je
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: Problem (2) fulfillment of the Isaiah
: 12: 34 So the crowd answered him, "We have heard from the Law that the Chris
: t remains forever. How can you say that the Son of Man must be lifted up? W
: ho is this Son of Man?"
: 12:35 So Jesus said to them, "The light is among you for a little while long
: er. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. The one who w
: alks in the darkness does not know where he is going.
: Jesus failed to answer an important question here. Reading Isaiah 9:6-7, Je
: ws believed that the Christ shall remain on David's throne forever.
: 6 For to us a child is born,
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 7 Spiritually, kongzi sits on the left side
OK?
，归
你们
【在 G*******s 的大作中提到】
: 太 28:18 耶稣进前来，对他们说：“天上地下所有的权柄都赐给我了。 太 28:19 所
: 以，你们要去使万民作我的门徒，奉父子圣灵的名，给他们施洗(或作“给他们施洗，归
: 于父子圣灵的名。”)。 太 28:20 凡我所吩咐你们的，都教训他们遵守，我就常与你们
: 同在，直到世界的末了。”
: 可 16:19 主耶稣和他们说完了话，后来被接到天上，坐在 神的右边。
:
: Chris
: W
: long
: w
|
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 8 If he is saved.
太 19:28 耶稣说：“我实在告诉你们，你们这跟从我的人，到复兴的时候，人子坐在他
荣耀的宝座上，你们也要坐在十二个宝座上，审判以色列十二个支派。
启 20:4 我又看见几个宝座，也有坐在上面的，并有审判的权柄赐给他们。我又看见那
些因为给耶稣作见证，并为 神之道被斩者的灵魂，和那没有拜过兽与兽像，也没有在
额上和手上受过它印记之人的灵魂，他们都复活了，与基督一同作王一千年。
启 20:6 在头一次复活有分的有福了，圣洁了；第二次的死在他们身上没有权柄。他们
必作 神和基督的祭司，并要与基督一同作王一千年。
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: Spiritually, kongzi sits on the left side
: OK?
:
: ，归
: 你们
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 9 I Have Not Seen, Yet I Believe
在他
【在 G*******s 的大作中提到】
: If he is saved.
: 太 19:28 耶稣说：“我实在告诉你们，你们这跟从我的人，到复兴的时候，人子坐在他
: 荣耀的宝座上，你们也要坐在十二个宝座上，审判以色列十二个支派。
: 启 20:4 我又看见几个宝座，也有坐在上面的，并有审判的权柄赐给他们。我又看见那
: 些因为给耶稣作见证，并为 神之道被斩者的灵魂，和那没有拜过兽与兽像，也没有在
: 额上和手上受过它印记之人的灵魂，他们都复活了，与基督一同作王一千年。
: 启 20:6 在头一次复活有分的有福了，圣洁了；第二次的死在他们身上没有权柄。他们
: 必作 神和基督的祭司，并要与基督一同作王一千年。
|
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 10 If he is saved, you can see him on heaven if you are also saved.
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: I Have Not Seen, Yet I Believe
:
: 在他
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 11 The Millennial Kingdom Reign of Jesus Christ
you never learn Revelation 20
【在 G*******s 的大作中提到】
: If he is saved, you can see him on heaven if you are also saved.
|
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 12 Don't be led away by Mormon's plausible ideas. Don't wait for their "MK",
save yourselves and all you loved before they die.
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: The Millennial Kingdom Reign of Jesus Christ
: you never learn Revelation 20
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 13 haha,everything does not fit in your calvinsitic theology is mormonism
save your soul, my friend
Calvinists go to hell, I believe this
【在 G*******s 的大作中提到】
: Don't be led away by Mormon's plausible ideas. Don't wait for their "MK",
: save yourselves and all you loved before they die.
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 14 May God be with me
my
out
Calvinis
fo
people"
only
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: Problem (1) verse against Limited Atonement
: 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to my
: self."
: John 12:32 and John 3:16 are the most powerful verses to be used to rule out
: the Calvinistic doctrine of Limited Atonement. We call it 4 point Calvinis
: t if a person accept other 4 points of TULIP Calvinistic doctrines except fo
: r the Limited Atonement.
: Calvinists changed the meaning of "this world" in John 3:16 and "all people"
: in John 12:32 to meet their doctrines. "this world" and "all people" only
: refer to the "elect" scattering around this world.
|
