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TrustInJesus版 - zz cnn: Religion no moral compass
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话题: religion话题: compass话题: moral话题: religious话题: so
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1 (共1页)
w*********r
发帖数: 3382
1
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/27/dawkins-reli
Dawkins: Religion no moral compass
By Jason Miks
GPS digital producer Jason Miks sits down with renowned evolutionary
biologist Richard Dawkins, author of the Selfish Gene and An Appetite for
Wonder, to discuss readers’ questions on religion, its role in society and
whether children can be described as “Christian.”
JM: A number of readers noting your skepticism over religion’s role in
society ask whether an absence of religion would leave us without a moral
compass?
RD: The very idea that we get a moral compass from religion is horrible. Not
only should we not get our moral compass from religion, as a matter of fact
we don’t. We shouldn’t, because if you actually look at the bible or the
Koran, and get your moral compass from there, it’s horrible – stoning
people to death, stoning people for breaking the Sabbath.
Now of course we don’t do that anymore, but the reason we don’t do it is
that we pick out those verses of the bible that we like, and reject those
verses we don’t like. What criteria do we use to pick out the good ones and
reject the bad ones? Non-biblical criteria, non-religious criteria. The
same criteria as guide any modern person in their moral compass that has
nothing to do with religion.
So the moral compass of any person is very much a part of the century or
even the decade in which they happen to live, regardless of their religion.
So we live in the early 21st century, and our moral compass in the early
21st century is quite different from 100 years ago, or 200 years ago. We are
now much less racist than they were, much less sexist than they were. We
are much kinder than non-human animals than they were – all sorts of
respects in which we are labeled with a moral compass. So something has
changed, and it certainly has nothing to do with religion.
JM: You’ve been travelling to the States from the U.K. for a number of
years. Have you noticed much of a change in the place of religion in the two
countries over that time?
RD: Notoriously, the United States is the most religious of the Western
advanced nations. It’s a bit mysterious why that is. In Britain,
Christianity is dying. Islam, unfortunately, isn’t. In Western Europe
generally, Christianity is dying. Even in America, the figures show that
religious adherence is being steadily reduced, and the people who now record
themselves as having no religious affiliation is something like 20 percent.
Many people don’t recognize what a high figure it is, and so politicians
here who feel they have to curry favor with religious lobbies should maybe
take a look at those statistics and realize that not everyone in this
country is religious.
JM: You say it’s a bit of a mystery why America is so much more religious
than other advanced countries. Do you have any thoughts on why it might be?
Tied to that question of disposition, several readers also wondered if there
is a genetic predisposition toward faith?
RD: There probably is, but I don’t think that really explains why America
is so different from Britain. The least implausible suggestion that I’ve
heard is that Britain and Scandinavian countries, which are also very non-
religious, have an established church, and that kind of makes religion
boring. Whereas in America, there is constitutionally a bar against an
established church, and that could be one reason why religion has become so
popular – it has become big business, it has become free enterprise, rival
churches vie with each other for congregations and especially tax free ties.
JM: Some readers see you as very evangelical in your atheism. Do you feel it
a duty, just as some Christians might to share the word of God, to spread
an atheist point of view?
RD: Duty is a funny word. But when you say evangelical, I like to think that
I don’t shout or shriek, but employ a quiet, sober voice of reason. And
reason is on our side.
JM: You’ve talked about feeling uncomfortable with the impact of religion
on children. In fact, one reader asked whether you would prefer to see no
under-18s at church. What’s your take?
RD: I certainly wouldn’t wish to prohibit parents influencing their
children. However, for the rest of the world, to label a child a Catholic
child simply because its parents are Catholic, seems to me to be a form of
child abuse. The child is too young to know.
You can see the absurdity of talking about a Catholic child of four when you
think what it would be like if we talked about an existentialist child of
four, or a logical positivist of four. In other words, we wouldn’t accept
the labeling of a child based the parents’ belief, so why do we accept it
when it’s religion? Why does religion get a free pass when it comes to
labeling children in this way?
J*******g
发帖数: 8775
2
Dawkins真像这里的反基啊。
“基督徒信圣经中好的地方”(其实基督徒信圣经所有地方,只是圣经很多地方是描述
性的,不是让所有人,在所有时代都要做这些事),Dawkins说他们不是真的基督徒,
好像要他给基督徒下定义一样,很可笑啊。
其实Dawkins不懂基督教。
守Sabbath是有宗教历史背景的,上帝把以色列人带出埃及,让他们摆脱奴役。让他们
休息一天来纪念上帝的救恩。
不过这些Dawkins都不信,那看旧约律法当然没法理解了。
像中国这种没受基督教影响的国家,社会发展也是越来越文明。旧约律法在3500年前已
经不错了。中国古代的律法不也很残酷。但是那时候社会就这样,我们不能从现在人的
角度,批评古人。
而且耶稣来了之后,对旧约律法进行了说明,指出爱上帝,和爱人如己,是旧约律法的
核心。
而且耶稣也在Sabbath救人,指出Sabbath可以做好事。

and

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/27/dawkins-reli
: Dawkins: Religion no moral compass
: By Jason Miks
: GPS digital producer Jason Miks sits down with renowned evolutionary
: biologist Richard Dawkins, author of the Selfish Gene and An Appetite for
: Wonder, to discuss readers’ questions on religion, its role in society and
: whether children can be described as “Christian.”
: JM: A number of readers noting your skepticism over religion’s role in
: society ask whether an absence of religion would leave us without a moral
: compass?

t*******r
发帖数: 2940
3
Dawkins不止一次表现出小女孩式的天真:"and get your moral compass from there
, it’s horrible – stoning
people to death, stoning people for breaking the Sabbath."他说这些话的时候
一定没有查一下他的脑子是在臆想里,还是二十一世纪。

【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: Dawkins真像这里的反基啊。
: “基督徒信圣经中好的地方”(其实基督徒信圣经所有地方,只是圣经很多地方是描述
: 性的,不是让所有人,在所有时代都要做这些事),Dawkins说他们不是真的基督徒,
: 好像要他给基督徒下定义一样,很可笑啊。
: 其实Dawkins不懂基督教。
: 守Sabbath是有宗教历史背景的,上帝把以色列人带出埃及,让他们摆脱奴役。让他们
: 休息一天来纪念上帝的救恩。
: 不过这些Dawkins都不信,那看旧约律法当然没法理解了。
: 像中国这种没受基督教影响的国家,社会发展也是越来越文明。旧约律法在3500年前已
: 经不错了。中国古代的律法不也很残酷。但是那时候社会就这样,我们不能从现在人的

w*********r
发帖数: 3382
4
the only reason you do not believe in stoning people to death for breaking
the Sabbath is that you did exactly what Dawkins said: ignoring all the
horrible teachings in the bible and recognize only those conform to modern
morality

there

【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: Dawkins不止一次表现出小女孩式的天真:"and get your moral compass from there
: , it’s horrible – stoning
: people to death, stoning people for breaking the Sabbath."他说这些话的时候
: 一定没有查一下他的脑子是在臆想里,还是二十一世纪。

J*******g
发帖数: 8775
5
如果你把耶稣的话当成现代伦理道德的话。
Matt 12
11 He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on
the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more
valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the
Sabbath.”
Mark 12
29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel:
The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your
heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your
strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There
is no commandment greater than these.”

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: the only reason you do not believe in stoning people to death for breaking
: the Sabbath is that you did exactly what Dawkins said: ignoring all the
: horrible teachings in the bible and recognize only those conform to modern
: morality
:
: there

t*******r
发帖数: 2940
6
极端的人理性扭曲以后就不能理解该怎样阅读历史。不能理解人类道德的时代性和相对
性。你和Dawkins显然没有任何clue我如何理解圣经,信口开河是你们共同之处。

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: the only reason you do not believe in stoning people to death for breaking
: the Sabbath is that you did exactly what Dawkins said: ignoring all the
: horrible teachings in the bible and recognize only those conform to modern
: morality
:
: there

w*********r
发帖数: 3382
7
you should feel proud of yourself for not taking it all in without
discretion. instead you applied your own arbitration on what is right and
wrong using the moral compass you acquired as a member of the modern society

【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 极端的人理性扭曲以后就不能理解该怎样阅读历史。不能理解人类道德的时代性和相对
: 性。你和Dawkins显然没有任何clue我如何理解圣经,信口开河是你们共同之处。

t*******r
发帖数: 2940
8
没有人生活在真空里,可以完全applied your own arbitration on what is right
and wrong,信仰和教育都起重要作用。
对了,你和Dawkins是否知道基督徒是"现代社会"的一部分?

society

【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: you should feel proud of yourself for not taking it all in without
: discretion. instead you applied your own arbitration on what is right and
: wrong using the moral compass you acquired as a member of the modern society

1 (共1页)
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