l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 1 记者: 杜林 | 华盛顿 2010年 12月 28日
中国政府对外资的态度2010年有所转变，很多人抱怨中国现在越来越歧视外商，投资环
境不如从前了，尤其是外资在中国长期享有的超国民待遇也在年底宣告终结。尽管官方
一再承诺把外商当“自家人”看待，但并没有消除外资的忧虑。
外资抱怨最大的就是中国2009年年底宣布的自主创新政策。这项政策规定只有在中国拥
有注册商标专用权或注册专利的产品才能成为政府采购与扶植的对象。
*创新歧视*
但外资在中国使用的专利技术大多是境外注册，因此政策一颁布，就引发外商的强烈不
满。中国美国商会会长孟克文(Christian Murck)批评这一政策歧视海外科技产业，是
保护主义的表现，而政府采购是科技市场最大客户，对外资很不公平。
他说：“这是中国政府的贸易保护主义，特别是要求创新产品首先要在中国注册，让跨
国公司很难适从。长期来看，这也增加了中国企业参与全球创新体系的难度，我认为，
这正是创新政策的目标。”
美国工商界认为，中国实际是以产品本土创新比例的高低，来决定政府采购中的优先次
序，不利公平竞争。美国工商理事会(U.S. Business & Industry Council)表示，科技
创新不该有地域限制。
中国欧盟商会也对这一政策表达强烈的不满。随着海外反对声量的升高，中国工信部
2010年4月对政策规定进行了模糊处理，国家领导人也在多个场合安抚说，中国科技产
业发展政策没有改变，不歧视外商。外交部发言人秦刚说，中国把外商当“自家人看待
”。
*产权执法不严*
外商2010年第二个不满就是知识产权执法不严，地方保护主义盛行。孟克文认为，中国
的政策环境、特别是地方的投资与经营环境2010年倒退很大，因为政策在地方的解释和
运行同中央明文规定有很大差别，地方保护主义现象日趋严重。
美国商务部长骆家辉对此表达了关切。他批评中国明令保护知识产权，但地方官员阳奉
阴违，没有执行，让外商蒙受损失。
他说：“即使国家有公平市场准入的明文规定，省级与地方层级执行起来也经常存在出
入，知识产权保护更是如此。只有在违犯知识产权的人能得到民事或刑事处罚时，知识
产权的保护规定才有价值。知识产权法规的执法在中国经常不均衡，处罚也过轻，起不
到震慑作用。”
结果是，尽管中国颁布了多种规定，并在近期开展打击盗版的活动，但盗版现象继续猖
獗。美国商业软件联盟副总裁里德(Matt Reid)引用统计数字说，中国商务软件的盗版
率现在高达79%，相当严重。
他说：“中国软件盗版率是79%，相当于价值76亿美元的软件正在中国使用，但没有付
钱。我们认为中国近期的承诺是意识到了问题的严重性。政府需要真正着手处理，在当
今打击大规模软件盗版的行动中彻底扭转局面。”
非法药品仿制也让美国蒙受巨额损失。美国商务部前负责亚洲事务的副助理部长葛艾儒
(Ira Kosoff)说，这让中美两国人民的身心都受到了影响。
他说：“中国过去在活性药用成分API假药方面存在严重问题，活性药用成分用来制造
假药，中国的监管又不严。这既侵犯了合法药品的市场份额，又影响两国民众的健康，
因为有些假药流向美国等海外市场 ，途径就是廉价药品的网上销售和推销。所以，这
既是贸易问题，也是健康问题。”
美国前任贸易代表苏珊·史瓦布(Susan Schwab)因此呼吁中国增加知识产权的执法力度。
她说：“这事关美中两国经济关系的未来，因为中国完全有能力保护商业软件的知识产
权和其他形式的专利、商标和版权。 但中国做的不够，因为中国希望通过合法和非法
途径获得知识产权来推动国家品牌，提高竞争力，这在其他国家看来是不公平的贸易行
径。”
*稀缺高技术*
此外，中国还取消了外资在中国长期享有的超国民待遇。12月1号起，中国开始向外资
征收城市维护建设税和附加教育费，这两项费用20年来仅对中国公民和内资企业征收。
规定2010年10月出台后，在外商中引起不小的震动。
美国穆迪网站分析员成旭认为，这表明中国对外开放已经开始从最初的吸引外资逐步向
高科技转移。
他说：“中国经济已经发展了相当长一段时间，他原来可以从外资中间得到的一些东西
现在已经不再需要了。这包括经营管理方式，拓宽发达国家渠道等。从这个角度来说，
中国现在不再稀缺资本了。他现在稀缺的是高技术的资本，对一般资本的超国民待遇也
就消失了。”
面对西方国家的压力，中国在刚刚结束的美中商贸联委会与中国欧盟高层经贸对话上做
出了一定的让步，表示不再依据知识产权的注册地点来确定政府采购合同的招标资格，
并承诺推动政府办公设备的正版软件安装。 | m********c
发帖数: 13337 | 2 打个比喻，先前利润率为800%以上，现在只能有可怜的750%了，所以证明有歧视了。
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 记者: 杜林 | 华盛顿 2010年 12月 28日
: 中国政府对外资的态度2010年有所转变，很多人抱怨中国现在越来越歧视外商，投资环
: 境不如从前了，尤其是外资在中国长期享有的超国民待遇也在年底宣告终结。尽管官方
: 一再承诺把外商当“自家人”看待，但并没有消除外资的忧虑。
: 外资抱怨最大的就是中国2009年年底宣布的自主创新政策。这项政策规定只有在中国拥
: 有注册商标专用权或注册专利的产品才能成为政府采购与扶植的对象。
: *创新歧视*
: 但外资在中国使用的专利技术大多是境外注册，因此政策一颁布，就引发外商的强烈不
: 满。中国美国商会会长孟克文(Christian Murck)批评这一政策歧视海外科技产业，是
: 保护主义的表现，而政府采购是科技市场最大客户，对外资很不公平。
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 3 you have no idea what you are talking about.
5 years ago, 50% of FIEs in China are losing money. Now the % should be
higher.
【在 m********c 的大作中提到】
: 打个比喻，先前利润率为800%以上，现在只能有可怜的750%了，所以证明有歧视了。
| m********c
发帖数: 13337 | 4 请问能给我一些近5年来美国国内对外商（中国或者亚洲各国）的歧视显著降低的官方
数字报道吗，非常感谢！
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: you have no idea what you are talking about.
: 5 years ago, 50% of FIEs in China are losing money. Now the % should be
: higher.
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 5 我这个贴讲的是大陆中国对外企的歧视情况. 你讲的东东和本帖主题不符, 请另外开帖
讨论, 并请善用
google, 非常感谢.
【在 m********c 的大作中提到】
: 请问能给我一些近5年来美国国内对外商（中国或者亚洲各国）的歧视显著降低的官方
: 数字报道吗，非常感谢！
| p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 6 Where is this 50% from?
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: you have no idea what you are talking about.
: 5 years ago, 50% of FIEs in China are losing money. Now the % should be
: higher.
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 7 tax bureau
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: Where is this 50% from?
| p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 8 Most are accounting gimmicks, they make money, but hide the profits.
It's no secret in China.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: tax bureau
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 9 no, not true. You think you are smarter than local tax bureau? tell me how
many years relevant working experience you have.
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: Most are accounting gimmicks, they make money, but hide the profits.
: It's no secret in China.
| p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 10 Local governments care more about direct foreign investments and jobs than
taxes. If you ever lived in China, you should know that.
how
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: no, not true. You think you are smarter than local tax bureau? tell me how
: many years relevant working experience you have.
| | | l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 11 That's simply not true. It might be true many years ago, not any more.
As I said, tell me how many year you have been interacting with local 工商管理局 and 税务局? I kinda think that you get your conclusion based on what you read from those articles.
I can tell you that I had been dealing with them for more than ten years.
It's not only income tax, there is another big chunk of tax FIEs have to pay there - do you know what it is? - the transfer price is not working that well any more.
Don't think local tax bureau are all fools. They know what they are doing. Many times, they just choose to ignore for their personal benefit.
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: Local governments care more about direct foreign investments and jobs than
: taxes. If you ever lived in China, you should know that.
:
: how
| p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 12 It's very simple. If foreigners are losing money in China on their business,
why are they still expanding? If they are losing money, and still increase
investments, that means they are fine with that, why you worry so much? Oh I
understand now, screwed by a Jew makes you a China hater.
管理局 and 税务局? I kinda think that you get your conclusion based on what
you read from those articles.
pay there - do you know what it is? - the transfer price is not working that
well any more.
. Many times, they just choose to ignore for their personal benefit.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: That's simply not true. It might be true many years ago, not any more.
: As I said, tell me how many year you have been interacting with local 工商管理局 and 税务局? I kinda think that you get your conclusion based on what you read from those articles.
: I can tell you that I had been dealing with them for more than ten years.
: It's not only income tax, there is another big chunk of tax FIEs have to pay there - do you know what it is? - the transfer price is not working that well any more.
: Don't think local tax bureau are all fools. They know what they are doing. Many times, they just choose to ignore for their personal benefit.
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 13 Again, as I said before, you have no idea of what you are talking about.
And using personal attack only proves how ignorant you are.
Simply put, many FIEs came into China because they were fooled by the saying
that they can make tons of money from China, like one saying is that if you
can sell one pair of chopsticks to each Chinese in China, you will get rich.
But after they came, they got stuck. 50% of them are losing money every
year.
Why they are not pulling out?
Because:
1. it's not easy to pull out. There is a huge cost of closing the factories
comparing with the existing investment plus the intangible name/brand
impact.
2. the absolute value of the operation is not that big comparing with their
global operation. What's is the sales % of GM Shanghai among total GM? So
many of them just hope they can make money EVENTUALLY.
Why they are increasing investment?
Because some of them are losing the damn money, so if they don't have more
money pouring in, their operation will stop.
And for some other companies, they simply can't transfer out the money they
earned easily due to the government control of foreign currency transfer.
makes sense to you?
business,
increase
I
what
that
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: It's very simple. If foreigners are losing money in China on their business,
: why are they still expanding? If they are losing money, and still increase
: investments, that means they are fine with that, why you worry so much? Oh I
: understand now, screwed by a Jew makes you a China hater.
:
: 管理局 and 税务局? I kinda think that you get your conclusion based on what
: you read from those articles.
: pay there - do you know what it is? - the transfer price is not working that
: well any more.
: . Many times, they just choose to ignore for their personal benefit.
| t****1
发帖数: 827 | 14 你这个傻逼逢中必反，整天鼓吹华人白人杂交。你一定为你妈没有外发而感到很遗憾吧
？你既然承认，Many times, they just choose to ignore for their personal
benefit. 你就是承认那些外资企业瞒报利润的做法是成功的。所以pokerpro说的是对
的啊。你这个傻逼没逻辑，经常自己扇自己耳光，是不是经常和外国男人玩性虐待上瘾
啦，喜欢受虐,时不时自己扇自己一耳光？
. Many times, they just choose to ignore for their personal benefit.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: Again, as I said before, you have no idea of what you are talking about.
: And using personal attack only proves how ignorant you are.
: Simply put, many FIEs came into China because they were fooled by the saying
: that they can make tons of money from China, like one saying is that if you
: can sell one pair of chopsticks to each Chinese in China, you will get rich.
: But after they came, they got stuck. 50% of them are losing money every
: year.
: Why they are not pulling out?
: Because:
: 1. it's not easy to pull out. There is a huge cost of closing the factories
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 15 你不是搞这个的就别瞎掺和了.
那位说国内只看投资不看税收, 我说的那是以前. 税务局和工商管理局他们故意装看
不见因为可以捞点个人的好处. 但现在, 其实好几年前,就不是了.
现在要搞的就是外企,不是税务局和工商管理局的那些人要搞, 是政府要搞, 所以那些
人也没有办法.
国内苛捐杂税,各种制度厉害的很, 如果你什么都按照制度做的话你的公司根本没有办
法开下去的. 所以顶楼说外企日子难过了.
另外呢, 有什么话就好好说, 别一副气急败坏的样子. 让人家看到华人男很没有风度,
哈哈.
【在 t****1 的大作中提到】
: 你这个傻逼逢中必反，整天鼓吹华人白人杂交。你一定为你妈没有外发而感到很遗憾吧
: ？你既然承认，Many times, they just choose to ignore for their personal
: benefit. 你就是承认那些外资企业瞒报利润的做法是成功的。所以pokerpro说的是对
: 的啊。你这个傻逼没逻辑，经常自己扇自己耳光，是不是经常和外国男人玩性虐待上瘾
: 啦，喜欢受虐,时不时自己扇自己一耳光？
:
: . Many times, they just choose to ignore for their personal benefit.
| t****1
发帖数: 827 | 16 你这个傻逼开始不是也很喜欢骂人嘛，我骂你几句就没风度啦？我认识国内认识做这一
行的多了。你这个没脑子的，搞100年还是没脑子。我还是要忠告你一句，做个有脑子
的右派，不要逢中必反.
,
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 你不是搞这个的就别瞎掺和了.
: 那位说国内只看投资不看税收, 我说的那是以前. 税务局和工商管理局他们故意装看
: 不见因为可以捞点个人的好处. 但现在, 其实好几年前,就不是了.
: 现在要搞的就是外企,不是税务局和工商管理局的那些人要搞, 是政府要搞, 所以那些
: 人也没有办法.
: 国内苛捐杂税,各种制度厉害的很, 如果你什么都按照制度做的话你的公司根本没有办
: 法开下去的. 所以顶楼说外企日子难过了.
: 另外呢, 有什么话就好好说, 别一副气急败坏的样子. 让人家看到华人男很没有风度,
: 哈哈.
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 17 哈哈, 是因为你这个大沙比明明英文不好,却死不承认.丢人现眼到现在哦.
【在 t****1 的大作中提到】
: 你这个傻逼开始不是也很喜欢骂人嘛，我骂你几句就没风度啦？我认识国内认识做这一
: 行的多了。你这个没脑子的，搞100年还是没脑子。我还是要忠告你一句，做个有脑子
: 的右派，不要逢中必反.
:
: ,
| t****1
发帖数: 827 | 18 你刚才说骂人是没风度的，你这个傻逼现在怎么又骂上了？
你每天鼓吹华人白人杂交，看到那个Bardwell 反对interracial marriage，你却拍手
叫好。你如果懂英文？你怎么解释你这种傻逼行为？
你这个傻逼不要回避这个问题！行不？要不，你干脆闭嘴
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 哈哈, 是因为你这个大沙比明明英文不好,却死不承认.丢人现眼到现在哦.
| p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 19 BS. GM's china operation is one of few units making money for these years
globally, and it is definitely NOT a small piece in GM's business map, but
instead a big growth engine. You totally have no sense what you are talking
about.
http://ffog.net/gm-reports-increase-in-third-quarter-revenue-20
"In North America, GM had operating profit of $2.1 billion, hoisted up by higher sales of high-margin pick-up trucks. In Europe the company’s operations lost $559 million, as it made $646 million in its international operations, which include fast-growing markets such as China and India."
"GM’s revenue is up 21% to $34 billion. The company’s U.S. sales are better and consumers are paying more for its cars and trucks. Meantime, fast growth in China and other emerging markets contributed to the bottom line."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-12/general-motors-profit-
Growth in China
"Through the first half of the year, GM’s China sales, including those of its joint ventures, rose 49 percent to 1.2 million vehicles compared with last year, according to the automaker. That exceeded the 1.1 million cars and trucks GM sold in the U.S. in the year’s first half.
Chevrolet brand sales more than doubled in the first half in China, driven by strong sales of the Cruze small car. Buick sales rose 29 percent, according to J.D. Power & Associates. GM is the No. 2 seller in China, behind Germany’s Volkswagen, according to J.D. Power.
“GM went through a rough time last year, but they never backed away from China,” said Tim Dunne, an analyst with J.D. Power. “China provides the bulk of their revenue and profits from Asia.” "
Besides, losing money for 5 more years every year and still staying there
and even pourint more money, that either proves they are stupid, or they see
things very different from you see.
saying
you
rich.
factories
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: Again, as I said before, you have no idea of what you are talking about.
: And using personal attack only proves how ignorant you are.
: Simply put, many FIEs came into China because they were fooled by the saying
: that they can make tons of money from China, like one saying is that if you
: can sell one pair of chopsticks to each Chinese in China, you will get rich.
: But after they came, they got stuck. 50% of them are losing money every
: year.
: Why they are not pulling out?
: Because:
: 1. it's not easy to pull out. There is a huge cost of closing the factories
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 20 Still the same: you have no idea, no clue at all.
Even GM China is what? fast big growth engine? You still have NOT mentioned
the sales % of GM China within total GM. GM US is losing money but it's
still much bigger than GM China - that's a simple fact.
GM China is earning money not because it's good. It's because of the
support of China government - government is using GM Buick as it's standard
car. And not many FIEs can do that.
Can you find any other FIEs that are enjoying the same treatment? MS
windows?
I already explained the reason why so many FIEs are not pulling out. but some already did.
Back to what was my original statement? I said 50% of the FIEs are losing money in China. So what you just posted doesn't refute that at all.
talking
higher sales of high-margin pick-up trucks. In Europe the company’s
operations lost $559 million, as it made $646 million in its international
operations, which include fast-growing markets such as China and India."
better and consumers are paying more for its cars and trucks. Meantime, fast
growth in China and other emerging markets contributed to the bottom line."
its joint ventures, rose 49 percent to 1.2 million vehicles compared with
last year, according to the automaker. That exceeded the 1.1 million cars
and trucks GM sold in the U.S. in the year’s first half.
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: BS. GM's china operation is one of few units making money for these years
: globally, and it is definitely NOT a small piece in GM's business map, but
: instead a big growth engine. You totally have no sense what you are talking
: about.
: http://ffog.net/gm-reports-increase-in-third-quarter-revenue-20
: "In North America, GM had operating profit of $2.1 billion, hoisted up by higher sales of high-margin pick-up trucks. In Europe the company’s operations lost $559 million, as it made $646 million in its international operations, which include fast-growing markets such as China and India."
: "GM’s revenue is up 21% to $34 billion. The company’s U.S. sales are better and consumers are paying more for its cars and trucks. Meantime, fast growth in China and other emerging markets contributed to the bottom line."
: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-12/general-motors-profit-
: Growth in China
: "Through the first half of the year, GM’s China sales, including those of its joint ventures, rose 49 percent to 1.2 million vehicles compared with last year, according to the automaker. That exceeded the 1.1 million cars and trucks GM sold in the U.S. in the year’s first half.
| | | t****1
发帖数: 827 | 21 你有个屁的idea.
你每天鼓吹华人白人杂交，看到那个Bardwell 反对interracial marriage，你却拍手
叫好。你怎么解释你这种傻逼行为？
mentioned
standard
some already did.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: Still the same: you have no idea, no clue at all.
: Even GM China is what? fast big growth engine? You still have NOT mentioned
: the sales % of GM China within total GM. GM US is losing money but it's
: still much bigger than GM China - that's a simple fact.
: GM China is earning money not because it's good. It's because of the
: support of China government - government is using GM Buick as it's standard
: car. And not many FIEs can do that.
: Can you find any other FIEs that are enjoying the same treatment? MS
: windows?
: I already explained the reason why so many FIEs are not pulling out. but some already did.
| p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 22 I already gave you the number, GM sold 1.2 million vehicles in China, and 1
.1 million in US for the first half year of 2010. That means business in
China is small? Without market shares in China, there is no way GM dare to
go IPO.
From WSJ:
"General Motors Co.'s sales in China rose 29% last year to a record 2.35
million vehicles, making GM the first foreign auto maker to surpass the two-
million-unit mark for annual sales in the country, the Detroit-based company
said." The second half is even better. You may argue GM is favored by the
government, that exactly contradicts what you have posted. In fact, not only
GM, but Toyota, VW, Honda all make big money in China, benefited from this
and that. they need China, and they know that.
Of course, many business may fail in China, and are going to pull out. Get
over it, not every one can make money in China, not even in USA. It that new
to you?
mentioned
standard
some already did.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: Still the same: you have no idea, no clue at all.
: Even GM China is what? fast big growth engine? You still have NOT mentioned
: the sales % of GM China within total GM. GM US is losing money but it's
: still much bigger than GM China - that's a simple fact.
: GM China is earning money not because it's good. It's because of the
: support of China government - government is using GM Buick as it's standard
: car. And not many FIEs can do that.
: Can you find any other FIEs that are enjoying the same treatment? MS
: windows?
: I already explained the reason why so many FIEs are not pulling out. but some already did.
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 23 LOL. Have you ever listened to what you said? You obviously already forgot
your original post.
You asked me where was that 50% figure from. I told you it was from tax
bureau. Then you said it was accounting tricks and I told you tax bureau is
no fool. Plus it's not only income tax we are talking about.
and NOW, you are telling me: some business will fail anyway and get over it.
Get over WHAT?
I merely stated a fact that 50% of FIEs in China are losing money and you
simply didn't believe it.
In terms of GM, go read 10K report of GM. It is the fall of GM US that gave a good comparison of GM China. If GM China is so capable, then why would GM declare bankrupt in the first place? Plus I already mentioned that the success of GM China has nothing to do its product. It's because of the support of China government. I asked you to name some other FIEs that enjoy the treatment like that to GM and you didn't respond.
1
two-
company
only
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: I already gave you the number, GM sold 1.2 million vehicles in China, and 1
: .1 million in US for the first half year of 2010. That means business in
: China is small? Without market shares in China, there is no way GM dare to
: go IPO.
: From WSJ:
: "General Motors Co.'s sales in China rose 29% last year to a record 2.35
: million vehicles, making GM the first foreign auto maker to surpass the two-
: million-unit mark for annual sales in the country, the Detroit-based company
: said." The second half is even better. You may argue GM is favored by the
: government, that exactly contradicts what you have posted. In fact, not only
| p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 24 First, the GM example just counter-attacks your statement:
"2. the absolute value of the operation is not that big comparing with their
global operation. What's is the sales % of GM Shanghai among total GM? So
many of them just hope they can make money EVENTUALLY."
And I exactly told you that GM China contributes to a big chunck of it's
global sales and is among few of its stable income sources. GM filed for
bankruptcy is majorly due to its legacy debt and incompetency in USA.
I also do not see USA complaining about GM got "unfair" support from Chinese
government, they are just crying babies for more milk.
Second, I never took your 50% as granted, simply put, I do not believe it. I
just told you losing money for foreign business is normal and majority of
them still makes money in China.
forgot
is
it.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: LOL. Have you ever listened to what you said? You obviously already forgot
: your original post.
: You asked me where was that 50% figure from. I told you it was from tax
: bureau. Then you said it was accounting tricks and I told you tax bureau is
: no fool. Plus it's not only income tax we are talking about.
: and NOW, you are telling me: some business will fail anyway and get over it.
:
: Get over WHAT?
: I merely stated a fact that 50% of FIEs in China are losing money and you
: simply didn't believe it.
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 25 Well, first, GM example does not counter attack my statement. Reason: a. I
already told go read GM's 10K report. GM China was not a big chunk until it
failed miserably in other countries, particularly in US. As I said, had GM
China been that niub, GM wouldn't have declared bankrupt. b. I already said
"many of them" - told you to name any other companies in China that can
enjoy the treatment that GM Shanghai has.
Second, you already said you thought it was accounting trick and I already
told that local tax bureau is no fool.
Just answer my question: how many years relevant experience you have in this
area?
Probably zero. cuz You don't even know what other major taxes in China
besides the income tax. I know you might read many articles but
unfortunately most of them are just bullshit. I had been in that area for
over ten years when I was in China and I DO know what's going on.
their
Chinese
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: First, the GM example just counter-attacks your statement:
: "2. the absolute value of the operation is not that big comparing with their
: global operation. What's is the sales % of GM Shanghai among total GM? So
: many of them just hope they can make money EVENTUALLY."
: And I exactly told you that GM China contributes to a big chunck of it's
: global sales and is among few of its stable income sources. GM filed for
: bankruptcy is majorly due to its legacy debt and incompetency in USA.
: I also do not see USA complaining about GM got "unfair" support from Chinese
: government, they are just crying babies for more milk.
: Second, I never took your 50% as granted, simply put, I do not believe it. I
| p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 26 I already told you GM sold 2.35 million vehicles in China, its peak time of
global sales reached 9 million units in 2006. This is not a big chunck? How
about get some schooling first? Honda received special treatment in
Guangdong too, and Hundai in Beijing, Toyota in Tianjin and so on.I don't
hear they complaining either.
I
it
GM
said
this
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: Well, first, GM example does not counter attack my statement. Reason: a. I
: already told go read GM's 10K report. GM China was not a big chunk until it
: failed miserably in other countries, particularly in US. As I said, had GM
: China been that niub, GM wouldn't have declared bankrupt. b. I already said
: "many of them" - told you to name any other companies in China that can
: enjoy the treatment that GM Shanghai has.
: Second, you already said you thought it was accounting trick and I already
: told that local tax bureau is no fool.
: Just answer my question: how many years relevant experience you have in this
: area?
| v***h
发帖数: 245 | 27 应该算是准备国民待遇了，与民企接近。但是在中国不透漏税啥的企业基本没法活。外
企一般不愿意这么坐，自然就觉得不好了。
怪圈，因为很多人漏税，所以要高税率。结果老实的吃亏。为啥不低税，并对所有的都
严格执行呢，当中猫腻太多。 | l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 28 是这样, 象美国企业还有FCPA伺候他们,更不好搞了.
【在 v***h 的大作中提到】
: 应该算是准备国民待遇了，与民企接近。但是在中国不透漏税啥的企业基本没法活。外
: 企一般不愿意这么坐，自然就觉得不好了。
: 怪圈，因为很多人漏税，所以要高税率。结果老实的吃亏。为啥不低税，并对所有的都
: 严格执行呢，当中猫腻太多。
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 29 ok, let's go back to the basics as I don't think we can agree on GM stauff
but I think you are off the topic now.
What started here?
You claimed that 50% of FIEs are losing money is not true. Reason: you said
business,why are they still expanding? If they are losing money, and still
increase investments, that means they are fine with that, why you worry so
much? "
What I replied? first I don't understand why you said "why you worry so much
?". I was stating a fact so don't understand why you said that I worry so
much - but that's not important. Let's skip that first.
I gave you two reasons: one: it's not easy to pull out. There is a huge
cost of closing the factories comparing with the existing investment plus
the intangible name/brand impact.
second: the absolute value of the operation is not that big comparing with
their global operation. What's is the sales % of GM Shanghai among total GM?
So many of them just hope they can make money EVENTUALLY.
Here I used GM as an example because when GM invested money into China, it's
operation was much much smaller than it had in US.
I also explained why they are increasing investment.
Because some of them are losing the damn money, so if they don't have more
money pouring in, their operation will stop.
And for some other companies, they simply can't transfer out the money they
earned easily due to the government control of foreign currency transfer.
So aren't all those explanations making sense to you?
The only argument you have to defend your opinion that it's not true that 50
% of FIEs in China are losing money is what you said above, which I gave you
a very good explanation.
I already asked you how many relevant experience you have in this area and
it seems you have none - zero because you even have NO idea about what kind
of taxes FIEs are paying in China besides income tax.
All the ideas you have are probably from articles from the internet here and
there. They are helpful, sometimes, but sorry, not working in this topic.
Do I need to give you further explanations? I hope not.
of
How | p******o
发帖数: 9007 | 30 First of all, I just reminded you that GM's operation in China is very
significant comparing to its global sales: now it is selling 2.35 million
units in China, more than in USA, and can even account for 30% for its peak
sales back in 2006, this is very very small?
How you define small? This casual example just shows your little sense about
numbers and ignorance. Btw, care to know how many buicks GM sells in China?
Half million, but not a decisive portion.
Second, you claimed that though foreign investors are losing money now, they
may have more to lose to close down the operation, or even have to spend
more to continue the operation. So this is funny: they are losing money on
their operation in China now, and they still need to expand their operation?
Why? To lose more money? Did you see how these corporations close down their
manufacturies here because making LESS money, and move the machines/
equipments to China (as Repubs have always claimed)? In USA it is difficult
to close down a factory because of union issue, but do you have such issue
in China when you are losing money (and are losing more)?
Or, they may see things different from you: they are losing money because of
the scale. Therefore they need to pour in more money to make even MORE
money. That just demonstrates China is a magnet for them now.
Btw, in the business I am dealing with, 10K alike is just a starting point.
People are asking for the edge, real numbers, not just some tweaked stuffs.
No matter how many years of so-called experience you claim you have, lack of
common sense and sense of numbers make your arguments weak.
said
much
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: ok, let's go back to the basics as I don't think we can agree on GM stauff
: but I think you are off the topic now.
: What started here?
: You claimed that 50% of FIEs are losing money is not true. Reason: you said
: business,why are they still expanding? If they are losing money, and still
: increase investments, that means they are fine with that, why you worry so
: much? "
: What I replied? first I don't understand why you said "why you worry so much
: ?". I was stating a fact so don't understand why you said that I worry so
: much - but that's not important. Let's skip that first.
| | | t****1
发帖数: 827 | 31 lczlcz那个淫贱逼，死外发，证据确凿，它还抵赖。和它讲道理，纯粹是浪费时间。 它就是一条疯狗。你得抡起打狗棒，对它劈头盖脸几棒子才行。
peak
about
China?
they
【在 p******o 的大作中提到】
: First of all, I just reminded you that GM's operation in China is very
: significant comparing to its global sales: now it is selling 2.35 million
: units in China, more than in USA, and can even account for 30% for its peak
: sales back in 2006, this is very very small?
: How you define small? This casual example just shows your little sense about
: numbers and ignorance. Btw, care to know how many buicks GM sells in China?
: Half million, but not a decisive portion.
: Second, you claimed that though foreign investors are losing money now, they
: may have more to lose to close down the operation, or even have to spend
: more to continue the operation. So this is funny: they are losing money on
|
|
