D*****t
发帖数: 77 | 1 There are some so called middle class earning people here feel so dignified
that what they have worked so hard, should not go to feed those poor and
those being less fortunate, whom, choose to remain lazy by definition of
those so called hard working middle class.
At the very end, the way those people think is nothing really new. There is
long long tradition of this school of thinking. For whoever has some
exposure to Chinese tradition culture, this is nothing but a variation of “
患不均而不患贫“。
This accusation may sound counter intuitive at the first glance. How can we
accuse those middle class producer “不患贫“, after all, those people do
work? Let me tell you why.
The center theme in “患不均而不患贫“is to place fairness first. Translate
to English, it literally means: worry more about fairness than worry about
production.
Now that those so-called middle earning people in this forum will shoot out
loud, I do not want my earning to go to feed those who CHOSE to be lazy. The
question is, do you really believe what you earn is what you really deserve
? Oh, really, you can earn 100k+ a year is purely, simply, squarely based on
your so-called capacity? Your 10+ years of “cold window bitter reading”
years to earn your“ Permanent Head Damage” or abbreviated as PhD?
Then why not take your capacity somewhere else, like mainland China, and see
if you can earn this notional amount?
The fact is there a huge social system and infrastructure in place in this
country to let your so-called capacity to extract/add so much value from/to
this system. However, this social system is in no way free, it comes with a
cost, that cost includes helping some less fortune ones, some appear to be
lazy, some even choose to give up after a long time. Have you ever occur to
you why there is a natural unemployment rate in any advanced economy. The
number is around 4-5% in this country. Why is it “natural”? Should not
everyone be working?
And you and your kind, tiny little frog sitting at the bottom of a well,
want to think whatever come to your paycheck before tax is what you deserved
? This advanced system let you know where the money come and go, provide you
a more transparent picture how “your” money flow and give you a chance to
speak up and question when situation arise. In another word, this system
makes it easier for everyone to monitor how this system works by providing
you a pre-tax number in your paycheck. And you and your kind want to abuse
and twist the fact and interpret this number to be what you really worth?
Maybe people like you deserve to be in mainland China, where there was no
concept of tax payer, no one know how much tax or what kind of tax he pays
when he buy an iphone. That is simple enough and convenient enough to keep
them quiet. For this kind of “刁民“，too much information for them could
even get them hurt. Those “刁民“could just get so angry that “their”
earning was taken away and turn into “暴民“。
I now even feel a little sympathy to Chinese government that they have to
deal with so many “刁民“ and need to educate those nutcases. | j*********d
发帖数: 1137 | 2 great post and great insights!
dignified
is
we
【在 D*****t 的大作中提到】
: There are some so called middle class earning people here feel so dignified
: that what they have worked so hard, should not go to feed those poor and
: those being less fortunate, whom, choose to remain lazy by definition of
: those so called hard working middle class.
: At the very end, the way those people think is nothing really new. There is
: long long tradition of this school of thinking. For whoever has some
: exposure to Chinese tradition culture, this is nothing but a variation of “
: 患不均而不患贫“。
: This accusation may sound counter intuitive at the first glance. How can we
: accuse those middle class producer “不患贫“, after all, those people do
| j*********d
发帖数: 1137 | 3 老实说我每年报税的时候都抱怨我宁可像中国一样到手的就是税后的，这下明白了，受
教。
“This advanced system let you know where the money come and go, provide you
a more transparent picture how “your” money flow and give you a chance to
speak up and question when situation arise. ”
dignified
is
we
【在 D*****t 的大作中提到】
: There are some so called middle class earning people here feel so dignified
: that what they have worked so hard, should not go to feed those poor and
: those being less fortunate, whom, choose to remain lazy by definition of
: those so called hard working middle class.
: At the very end, the way those people think is nothing really new. There is
: long long tradition of this school of thinking. For whoever has some
: exposure to Chinese tradition culture, this is nothing but a variation of “
: 患不均而不患贫“。
: This accusation may sound counter intuitive at the first glance. How can we
: accuse those middle class producer “不患贫“, after all, those people do
| j*********d
发帖数: 1137 | 4 帮顶一下这篇好帖，虽然是英文，但值得仔细一读，尽管让那边的某些ID读起来有些费
劲。另外对那些相信自己在美国取得的一切成就全靠自己自食其力的小农后代，作者没
有努力掩饰自己的智力优越感。这一点上我对作者持批评态度。
dignified
is
we
【在 D*****t 的大作中提到】
: There are some so called middle class earning people here feel so dignified
: that what they have worked so hard, should not go to feed those poor and
: those being less fortunate, whom, choose to remain lazy by definition of
: those so called hard working middle class.
: At the very end, the way those people think is nothing really new. There is
: long long tradition of this school of thinking. For whoever has some
: exposure to Chinese tradition culture, this is nothing but a variation of “
: 患不均而不患贫“。
: This accusation may sound counter intuitive at the first glance. How can we
: accuse those middle class producer “不患贫“, after all, those people do
| m*****5
发帖数: 23482 | 5 这次DNC奥巴马一直在强调公民社会，有公共的平台才能提升所有人的势能。都是老鼠
，在厨房的就比茅房的过得好，WSN也是就老鼠而已，还真以为自己天赋异禀
COLD WINDOW BITTER READING的翻译极传神，活画出在书中找黄金屋和颜如玉的WSN，
天天朝思暮想着一考登天，岂料早已青丝染秋霜，腰背佝偻无人问，苦海无边猛回头，
恰见隔壁黑哥夜夜笙歌快乐如神仙，于是祭起道德大旗：老子的涮管竟成全了你家天伦
之乐，扎两个草人，天天念叨着一日天威降临，通通扫去你们的欢乐 | P*********0
发帖数: 4321 | 6 尼玛这么蠢的问题。我的公司按我的人头费率收客户的钱几倍于我的工资率。 | J***M
发帖数: 254 | 7 I agree with your point but not the conclusion.
You are right that the middle class do not earn the full paycheck. But the
same argument applies to the rich and the poor also. The rich would not be
rich if not for all the work done by the middle class and the poor. The poor
in Africa certainly lives in a much worse condition than those in the
States.
What decides how the additional created wealth (剩余价值）is the bargining
power. In a purely capitalistic society, the rich who provides the capital
gets the lion's share because the scarcity of capital. If someday in the
future everyone is an investor except one house cleaning lady, I am sure she
will makes much more than these investors. It comes back to the supply and
demand. | D*****t
发帖数: 77 | 8 Thanks and I am glad you like it.
【在 j*********d 的大作中提到】
: 帮顶一下这篇好帖，虽然是英文，但值得仔细一读，尽管让那边的某些ID读起来有些费
: 劲。另外对那些相信自己在美国取得的一切成就全靠自己自食其力的小农后代，作者没
: 有努力掩饰自己的智力优越感。这一点上我对作者持批评态度。
:
: dignified
: is
: we
| D*****t
发帖数: 77 | 9 Thanks for agreeing my points.
Not sure what conclusion you disagree with. I did not say anything about the
riches yet in my original post.
The riches may not be THAT rich if there is no that many less well-off
around. That is for sure. "the comfort of the rich rely on the abundance of
the poors".
The main point is we are as a society, we are all inter-connected. At one
hand, we have property and property right as individual. On the other hand,
we all rely on the social system we live on, as a group. It is a tricky
problem since the beginning of time.
People brought up in the west know this as common sense. As they say, death
and tax, two unavoidable things in every life. The question is always how
much tax and how to spend it, not 1/0 tax.
It pains me to see so many so-called educated people in these forum talking
about "his" money go to feed those he does not like. and scratch their head
to come up this or that "reason".
Oh, so dignified, so bullet-proof, remind me those boxer uprising in north
part of China 100 years ago.
be
poor
she
【在 J***M 的大作中提到】
: I agree with your point but not the conclusion.
: You are right that the middle class do not earn the full paycheck. But the
: same argument applies to the rich and the poor also. The rich would not be
: rich if not for all the work done by the middle class and the poor. The poor
: in Africa certainly lives in a much worse condition than those in the
: States.
: What decides how the additional created wealth (剩余价值）is the bargining
: power. In a purely capitalistic society, the rich who provides the capital
: gets the lion's share because the scarcity of capital. If someday in the
: future everyone is an investor except one house cleaning lady, I am sure she
| c****y
发帖数: 418 | 10 说得玄乎玄乎的，其实资本主义社会的相互依赖程度已经
用现金流联系起来了。比如你在餐馆吃饭，付的钱里面已经
包含了厨师的工资，采购的工资，原材料的成本，而原材料
成本又可以细分为运输费用，农工的工资，肥料成本等等等等。
充分竞争条件下自由市场决定的价格是唯一合理的价格。就算
市场只能趋近完全竞争条件，也没有比市场更好的方法决定
合理价格。因此付给你的工资就是你的合理劳动力价格，不多
也不少。
你这是奥巴马“You didn't build it”的翻版。压制个人自由
的共产帝国就是在同样的逻辑下建立起来的。
dignified
is
we
【在 D*****t 的大作中提到】
: There are some so called middle class earning people here feel so dignified
: that what they have worked so hard, should not go to feed those poor and
: those being less fortunate, whom, choose to remain lazy by definition of
: those so called hard working middle class.
: At the very end, the way those people think is nothing really new. There is
: long long tradition of this school of thinking. For whoever has some
: exposure to Chinese tradition culture, this is nothing but a variation of “
: 患不均而不患贫“。
: This accusation may sound counter intuitive at the first glance. How can we
: accuse those middle class producer “不患贫“, after all, those people do
| | | l*****o
发帖数: 26631 | 11 为什么公开pre-tax,不就是为了让广大群众知道自己交了多少税么。
为什么讲究政府支出要公开， 不就是为了让大家监督税的去向么？
现在有些人对于用自己交的税去养“懒人”表示不满， 难道不是监督的一种？ 这难道
不正是我们需要的？
如果你想论证说明养那些人是对于维护这个社会稳定必要的支出， 那也应该多找些例
子， 而不是简单说，任何一个发达国家都会有4-5%的失业率， 这根本不说明问题。
dignified
is
we
【在 D*****t 的大作中提到】
: There are some so called middle class earning people here feel so dignified
: that what they have worked so hard, should not go to feed those poor and
: those being less fortunate, whom, choose to remain lazy by definition of
: those so called hard working middle class.
: At the very end, the way those people think is nothing really new. There is
: long long tradition of this school of thinking. For whoever has some
: exposure to Chinese tradition culture, this is nothing but a variation of “
: 患不均而不患贫“。
: This accusation may sound counter intuitive at the first glance. How can we
: accuse those middle class producer “不患贫“, after all, those people do
| Q****r
发帖数: 7340 | 12 你把中产的工资和中国比，干嘛不把懒汉的消耗和中国的底层人比？
美国懒汉比中国苦农民可是多消耗10倍，你也可以把中国的最低层的生活标准也可以套
在美国懒汉上嘛，由此可以算出来，给他们的福利实在太多太多，我们的tax交1/10就
够了。
dignified
is
we
【在 D*****t 的大作中提到】
: There are some so called middle class earning people here feel so dignified
: that what they have worked so hard, should not go to feed those poor and
: those being less fortunate, whom, choose to remain lazy by definition of
: those so called hard working middle class.
: At the very end, the way those people think is nothing really new. There is
: long long tradition of this school of thinking. For whoever has some
: exposure to Chinese tradition culture, this is nothing but a variation of “
: 患不均而不患贫“。
: This accusation may sound counter intuitive at the first glance. How can we
: accuse those middle class producer “不患贫“, after all, those people do
| a*********a
发帖数: 3656 | 13 Of course NOT.
When you own a business, you did NOT build that.
When you receive a pay check, you did NOT earn that.
It does not matter that my employer interviewed a bunch of people before
they decided to hire me with the salary they offered.
It does not matter that my pay is negotiated privately, not through
collective bargain.
It does not matter that they can fire my at will at any time if there was
some one more capable or willing to do the same work with equal quality for
less. | J***M
发帖数: 254 | 14 You were implying we should somewhat share the resources because we are
inter connected. That's the part I disagree with.
I do not fully earn my pay check (if not for other people's work) but I
still deserve it because it is a relatively fair system. You make your own
most of the time.
I believe in some social safety net for the those who are really unfortunate.
Most of us came from a former communist country and knew from our first-hand
experience that you cannot even the distribution by force. It is gross
unfairness to those who work harder and smarter. Even worse, it depress the
total output of the whole society.
the
of
,
【在 D*****t 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for agreeing my points.
: Not sure what conclusion you disagree with. I did not say anything about the
: riches yet in my original post.
: The riches may not be THAT rich if there is no that many less well-off
: around. That is for sure. "the comfort of the rich rely on the abundance of
: the poors".
: The main point is we are as a society, we are all inter-connected. At one
: hand, we have property and property right as individual. On the other hand,
: we all rely on the social system we live on, as a group. It is a tricky
: problem since the beginning of time.
| l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 15 说得好. 一看就是懂经济的人.
【在 c****y 的大作中提到】
: 说得玄乎玄乎的，其实资本主义社会的相互依赖程度已经
: 用现金流联系起来了。比如你在餐馆吃饭，付的钱里面已经
: 包含了厨师的工资，采购的工资，原材料的成本，而原材料
: 成本又可以细分为运输费用，农工的工资，肥料成本等等等等。
: 充分竞争条件下自由市场决定的价格是唯一合理的价格。就算
: 市场只能趋近完全竞争条件，也没有比市场更好的方法决定
: 合理价格。因此付给你的工资就是你的合理劳动力价格，不多
: 也不少。
: 你这是奥巴马“You didn't build it”的翻版。压制个人自由
: 的共产帝国就是在同样的逻辑下建立起来的。
|
|
