a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 1 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
藏问题上不公
平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
不下去了，选
择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
以下是记录：
A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
the cultural genocide of his country.
我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
1950, which is not entirely his fault since he was born into a bad
system.
china's ethnic policies are not nearly perfect by |
s*****n
发帖数: 1794 | |
E*V
发帖数: 17544 | 3 just not bad?
【在 s*****n 的大作中提到】
: Not bad
|
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 4 OK, let me "say two sentences."
What China did in Tibet is no doubt a "culture genocide", just like what the
US is doing now in Afghan. It really doesn't matter whether or not it is "a
theocracy combined with brutal slavery"; it's their culture and their
choice, and, if you want to change it from outside, it is a "culture
genocide".
Now, back to your point of "western media biased coverage". I don't really
understand the "bias" part. If the "bias" means the western media is biased
toward "anti-g |
m*****5
发帖数: 23482 | 5 问题在于，"culture genocide"这个词就是个根本的伪命题，你如果先接受了这个符号
的意义，就等于接受了这套狼指责小羊从下游污染上游水源的逻辑，下面你怎么辩都徒
劳了 |
T****n
发帖数: 6187 | 6 bias很明显是指不忠于事实，跟反中国政府有个屁关系
the
"a
biased
I
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: OK, let me "say two sentences."
: What China did in Tibet is no doubt a "culture genocide", just like what the
: US is doing now in Afghan. It really doesn't matter whether or not it is "a
: theocracy combined with brutal slavery"; it's their culture and their
: choice, and, if you want to change it from outside, it is a "culture
: genocide".
: Now, back to your point of "western media biased coverage". I don't really
: understand the "bias" part. If the "bias" means the western media is biased
: toward "anti-g
|
g******8
发帖数: 542 | 7 it seems you have not read many distorted china-attacking western news...
the
"a
biased
I
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: OK, let me "say two sentences."
: What China did in Tibet is no doubt a "culture genocide", just like what the
: US is doing now in Afghan. It really doesn't matter whether or not it is "a
: theocracy combined with brutal slavery"; it's their culture and their
: choice, and, if you want to change it from outside, it is a "culture
: genocide".
: Now, back to your point of "western media biased coverage". I don't really
: understand the "bias" part. If the "bias" means the western media is biased
: toward "anti-g
|
a****m
发帖数: 83 | 8 写的很好，赞
有理有节，那个人明显是说不过你了。
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
P**********n
发帖数: 94 | 9 哥们说的不错嘛。如果可以补充的话，不妨加一点：西方媒体在中国的年轻人中间已经
完全没有信用了。
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
c*****s
发帖数: 620 | 10 zan!! very well done!
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
|
|
s******r
发帖数: 88 | 11 Sorry, before telling Chinese what not to do, would people from this free
country please stop
doing the same thing to the native Indians? Is a modernized US necessarily
better than 300 years ago to the native Indians? If not, why not return at
least several states to them and help them set up a country good for them
instead of granting permissions of operating casinos?
发信人: cmppbcic (cmppbcic), 信区: WorldNews
it's their culture and their
choice, and, if you want to change it from outside, it is a |
c******c
发帖数: 418 | |
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 13 this post is about "biased" report from the western media, it has nothing to do
with "telling Chinese what not to do". How do you know western media didn't
call "culture genocide" about what they did to indians?
【在 s******r 的大作中提到】
: Sorry, before telling Chinese what not to do, would people from this free
: country please stop
: doing the same thing to the native Indians? Is a modernized US necessarily
: better than 300 years ago to the native Indians? If not, why not return at
: least several states to them and help them set up a country good for them
: instead of granting permissions of operating casinos?
: 发信人: cmppbcic (cmppbcic), 信区: WorldNews
: it's their culture and their
: choice, and, if you want to change it from outside, it is a
|
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 14 其实 "culture genocide" 这种事情多的是了。大大方方承认就是了，有啥好辩的？
【在 m*****5 的大作中提到】
: 问题在于，"culture genocide"这个词就是个根本的伪命题，你如果先接受了这个符号
: 的意义，就等于接受了这套狼指责小羊从下游污染上游水源的逻辑，下面你怎么辩都徒
: 劳了
|
m*****5
发帖数: 23482 | 15 文明的融合是一个自然的过程，满大街都是，但要特意挑出来，扣个GENOCIDE的符号暗
示，就不得不怀疑其动机了 |
k********e
发帖数: 702 | 16 我觉得LZ的英语可圈可点啊
俺要有这造诣就好了。 |
f****e
发帖数: 679 | 17 Good job! it is amazing you were debating with a woman. Usually, they are
not reasonable. |
h***q
发帖数: 1673 | 18 TG撒了那么多弥天大谎，你攻击过么？
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
w********8
发帖数: 126 | 19 写的很好.赞一个.没事的时候可以去论坛辩几把.我们的目的不是在辩论中获胜,而是改
变他人的偏见.切记有时对对方的某个观点应表示赞同,表扬,承认自己的错误会让别人
更好接受你的观点.我以前常到TOPIX.COM发贴.西藏的问题在那里讨论的很透.也可以感
受到东南亚的华人,ABC,和加拿大华人凡事为母国必争的爱国情怀. |
s*****t
发帖数: 78 | 20 nice! zan@
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
|
|
P********s
发帖数: 170 | 21 No doubt? 就算是，有多少西方媒体或老百姓知道或承认 "what the US is doing now
in Afghan" is a "culture genocide"?
the
"a
biased
I
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: OK, let me "say two sentences."
: What China did in Tibet is no doubt a "culture genocide", just like what the
: US is doing now in Afghan. It really doesn't matter whether or not it is "a
: theocracy combined with brutal slavery"; it's their culture and their
: choice, and, if you want to change it from outside, it is a "culture
: genocide".
: Now, back to your point of "western media biased coverage". I don't really
: understand the "bias" part. If the "bias" means the western media is biased
: toward "anti-g
|
f**********4
发帖数: 2617 | 22 我从来认为谈达赖用他和纳粹来往的那一套是不明智的。正如那个美国妞说的，很多人都和纳粹有来往，比如说德日轴心正式形成之前的中华民国。 |
Y*******n
发帖数: 4646 | 23 haha..good work! . but would like to see more facts/examples than conclusion
/statements. Or they won't be easily convinced.
when I elaborate such topics, on top of using examples, I like to:
1. establish western fears towards communism in general，fear is coming from
something unknown or unfamiliar.
2. what does fear generates? Hostility.
3. what does a national machine/news press typically/natually do when
touching a topic that they have hostility towards? negativity, bias.
4. on top of all tha
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
t****n
发帖数: 2601 | 24 cultural genocide ？
文化灭绝也是被西方文化灭绝，西方和达赖搞西藏文化灭绝，在达拉萨蓝，
西藏女人开始选美，搞西藏小姐
咖啡馆里吃巧克力咖啡。
网吧为顾客提供免费的头部按摩
流亡藏人听美国摇滚，吃比萨饼
西藏年轻流亡女人涂粉色的指甲油，嚼口香糖，穿着新牛仔裤。 |
m*****5
发帖数: 23482 | 25 genocide这个词顶不靠谱，就是搞心理暗示用的，学点符号学和心理学就明白了
再说了，咱不是天天在germ genocide, fruit genocide, virus genocide. |
j******a
发帖数: 1582 | 26 TG那是真恶人，攻击不攻击，大家都知道
楼主这是要揭穿西方伪善人的真面目
这就好像一般大家不会攻击东方不败练葵花宝典
但岳不群练了，有人发现了，自然就要揭露
又或者两个黑人，一个黑就是黑了
另一个自己是黑的却还要漂白来遮掩，别人发现了，自然要揭露
再比如，金融产品有风险不可怕，风险高的，别人自然要高回报来平衡
但风险高的却被评成了风险低的，结果回报不足以平衡风险，要是有人发现了，那自然要揭露
【在 h***q 的大作中提到】
: TG撒了那么多弥天大谎，你攻击过么？
|
z********3
发帖数: 1430 | 27 it good to have such an example that how to fight back in english.
i may use some of the sentences someday too.
thanks. |
O*******d
发帖数: 20343 | 28 如果你阅读时代周刊的美国版，就可以发现对中国问题的报道的用词造句上充满潜意识
的偏见。 这点在去年的西藏314报道中尤其明显。 这次新疆75暴乱，西方在最初的偏
见报道后（将75暗喻成另一个64）大概维族作得实在过分，西方就全体沉默了。即使报
道新疆死人数目，也要反复强调这是中国政府的数字，以暗示这个数字可能有水分。
the
"a
biased
I
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: OK, let me "say two sentences."
: What China did in Tibet is no doubt a "culture genocide", just like what the
: US is doing now in Afghan. It really doesn't matter whether or not it is "a
: theocracy combined with brutal slavery"; it's their culture and their
: choice, and, if you want to change it from outside, it is a "culture
: genocide".
: Now, back to your point of "western media biased coverage". I don't really
: understand the "bias" part. If the "bias" means the western media is biased
: toward "anti-g
|
O*******d
发帖数: 20343 | |
h****c
发帖数: 10494 | 30 问问他们喝可乐不，看好莱坞电影不，用互联网不，我看他们被老美cultural
genocide了还差不多 |
|
|
s*****l
发帖数: 7106 | |
m******t
发帖数: 2416 | 32 I am always amused (unless I'm in the debate) by people who argue their
points by citing that their opponents are "misled" or "brainwashed".
It's just THE big gun that automatically and conveniently wins all arguments
for you.
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
g*******i
发帖数: 191 | 33 中国政府宣布的数字比真实的伤亡数字要小,妈逼的美国人还JJWW个鸟啊
【在 O*******d 的大作中提到】
: 如果你阅读时代周刊的美国版，就可以发现对中国问题的报道的用词造句上充满潜意识
: 的偏见。 这点在去年的西藏314报道中尤其明显。 这次新疆75暴乱，西方在最初的偏
: 见报道后（将75暗喻成另一个64）大概维族作得实在过分，西方就全体沉默了。即使报
: 道新疆死人数目，也要反复强调这是中国政府的数字，以暗示这个数字可能有水分。
:
: the
: "a
: biased
: I
|
i*******d
发帖数: 1430 | 34 英语不错，赞一个。不过这种argument没有证据是不能让人信服的。重点应该放在证据
上，而且是那种确凿的证据，象什么维族老太太摆拍的照片。
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
z*******e
发帖数: 777 | |
O*******d
发帖数: 20343 | 36 美国把它那套民主硬塞給别的国家，是不是culture genocide？ |
O*******d
发帖数: 20343 | 37 brainwash是西方人最爱说的，殊不知他们也被他们的媒体洗脑了，可悲的是，他们被
卖了还帮助数钱。
arguments
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
: I am always amused (unless I'm in the debate) by people who argue their
: points by citing that their opponents are "misled" or "brainwashed".
: It's just THE big gun that automatically and conveniently wins all arguments
: for you.
|
n**u
发帖数: 6997 | |
a*******o
发帖数: 237 | 39 Well said!
I think that American is completely close-minded and self-contradictory.
It's funny how those heavily brainwashed people claim others to be brain
washed.. |
r****9
发帖数: 4961 | 40 谁给说说为啥德国人特别喜欢说西藏的事？ 我们这里也是一个德国佬总和我jjww西藏
的鸡巴事。 |
|
|
a****2
发帖数: 34 | 41 楼主英文很好，景仰中，收藏此帖。
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 42 ok, so you have your definition of cultural genocide. but do you really
think if you can use only one word, this is the word to describe what the
chinese gov is doing in tibet?
by bias, i mean blatant lies and selective reporting, such as reporting
certain parts of the picture not the other parts, resulting in incomplete
understanding of the issue and flawed impression and conclusions.
the
"a
biased
I
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: OK, let me "say two sentences."
: What China did in Tibet is no doubt a "culture genocide", just like what the
: US is doing now in Afghan. It really doesn't matter whether or not it is "a
: theocracy combined with brutal slavery"; it's their culture and their
: choice, and, if you want to change it from outside, it is a "culture
: genocide".
: Now, back to your point of "western media biased coverage". I don't really
: understand the "bias" part. If the "bias" means the western media is biased
: toward "anti-g
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 43 you still don't get it. the point is on media reporting selectively, not
attacking dalai for his ties with nazi. i did not suggest anything bad on
dalai for this.
人都和纳粹有来往，比如说德日轴心正式形成之前的中华民国。
【在 f**********4 的大作中提到】
: 我从来认为谈达赖用他和纳粹来往的那一套是不明智的。正如那个美国妞说的，很多人都和纳粹有来往，比如说德日轴心正式形成之前的中华民国。
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 44 you are right on: comparing 75 with 64 was the worst of the worst...
【在 O*******d 的大作中提到】
: 如果你阅读时代周刊的美国版，就可以发现对中国问题的报道的用词造句上充满潜意识
: 的偏见。 这点在去年的西藏314报道中尤其明显。 这次新疆75暴乱，西方在最初的偏
: 见报道后（将75暗喻成另一个64）大概维族作得实在过分，西方就全体沉默了。即使报
: 道新疆死人数目，也要反复强调这是中国政府的数字，以暗示这个数字可能有水分。
:
: the
: "a
: biased
: I
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 45 i completely forgot that i posted it on this board as well, and am very
surprised it's flooded with comments. feeling very flattered by many of you
here, that made my day:) |
t*******r
发帖数: 270 | |
c**********d
发帖数: 2428 | 47 没见楼主说的吗？当年NAZI就已经和DALAI非常密切了。。。
我听说德国人相信自己的祖先是从西藏来到欧洲的。
【在 r****9 的大作中提到】
: 谁给说说为啥德国人特别喜欢说西藏的事？ 我们这里也是一个德国佬总和我jjww西藏
: 的鸡巴事。
|
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 48 I wish I could use one word to describe what the Chinese gov is doing in
Tibet but I can't. I'm not a Tibetan, and can't speak for them. Maybe they
love their culture to be "genocided", or maybe they want us Chinese to leave
them alone. Just because the Chinese gov. is trying to boost their economy
or living standards doesn't guarantee they welcome us.
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: ok, so you have your definition of cultural genocide. but do you really
: think if you can use only one word, this is the word to describe what the
: chinese gov is doing in tibet?
: by bias, i mean blatant lies and selective reporting, such as reporting
: certain parts of the picture not the other parts, resulting in incomplete
: understanding of the issue and flawed impression and conclusions.
:
: the
: "a
: biased
|
E*V
发帖数: 17544 | 49 in a nutshell,
what TG did is way way way way better than MD did to native americans
leave
economy
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: I wish I could use one word to describe what the Chinese gov is doing in
: Tibet but I can't. I'm not a Tibetan, and can't speak for them. Maybe they
: love their culture to be "genocided", or maybe they want us Chinese to leave
: them alone. Just because the Chinese gov. is trying to boost their economy
: or living standards doesn't guarantee they welcome us.
|
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 50 So? Put yourself into Tibetan's shoes, are you happy?
【在 E*V 的大作中提到】
: in a nutshell,
: what TG did is way way way way better than MD did to native americans
:
: leave
: economy
|
|
|
E*V
发帖数: 17544 | 51 no. I never did that.
I never put my put into native american's shoes either.
how many people did both?
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: So? Put yourself into Tibetan's shoes, are you happy?
|
T*******e
发帖数: 6425 | 52 这个标题不好，“舌战美国女”。。。。
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 53 听你的意思西藏人跟中国人不是一个国籍？应该和平共处，互不干涉内政？
they
leave
economy
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: I wish I could use one word to describe what the Chinese gov is doing in
: Tibet but I can't. I'm not a Tibetan, and can't speak for them. Maybe they
: love their culture to be "genocided", or maybe they want us Chinese to leave
: them alone. Just because the Chinese gov. is trying to boost their economy
: or living standards doesn't guarantee they welcome us.
|
m*****n
发帖数: 3575 | 54 美国是最不尊重别国民主的国家，曾颠覆过50个政权，其中大部分是合法政权。
皮诺切特就是他们赞助的，还在Georga 有 School of America专门教拉美纳粹如何搞
刑训。
甚至Taliban的恐怖袭击也是他们手把手教的。说说这个。 |
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 55 说得好，我听说过一些美国政府的恶行，有没有什么比较系统的这方面的信息？
【在 m*****n 的大作中提到】
: 美国是最不尊重别国民主的国家，曾颠覆过50个政权，其中大部分是合法政权。
: 皮诺切特就是他们赞助的，还在Georga 有 School of America专门教拉美纳粹如何搞
: 刑训。
: 甚至Taliban的恐怖袭击也是他们手把手教的。说说这个。
|
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 56 "Formally" Tibetan and Chinese share the same nationality, but this doesn't
mean we share the same culture. They believe dalai lama is their God and
control their afterlife, do you believe this too? For people with this kind
of belief, do you really think they will believe dalai lama is "trying to
split the country"?
To be honest, I don't really care what the Chinese gov. did in Tibet. The
government can force their own agenda to Tibetans, but just don't pretend
you are saving them "from slavery
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 听你的意思西藏人跟中国人不是一个国籍？应该和平共处，互不干涉内政？
:
: they
: leave
: economy
|
l*c
发帖数: 69 | 57 LZ英文vocabulary, reasoning都非常棒，还很有姿态。对比之下，那个美国人就没什
么风度。
问一下lz从事什么专业的？ |
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 58 没谁么可以装的，这是事实，连华盛顿邮报都有过一篇报道里面说普通藏民虽然非常崇
拜达赖，但是
并不希望过去的宗教长老贵族回来继续鱼肉他们。并不是说这就是我们控制西藏的唯一
原因，但这是
事实，没什么可以装的，我觉得中国官方也并未拿这个出来标榜自己。
既然你承认西藏是中国的领土，即使文化不同，至少应该尊重主权。我其实都无法肯定
达赖心中就一
定想要独立，但是他跟西方的种种勾当，事实上造成了西藏独立运动在海外很有人气。
好奇问一句，你是藏人吗？
doesn't
and
kind
to
The
pretend
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: "Formally" Tibetan and Chinese share the same nationality, but this doesn't
: mean we share the same culture. They believe dalai lama is their God and
: control their afterlife, do you believe this too? For people with this kind
: of belief, do you really think they will believe dalai lama is "trying to
: split the country"?
: To be honest, I don't really care what the Chinese gov. did in Tibet. The
: government can force their own agenda to Tibetans, but just don't pretend
: you are saving them "from slavery
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 59 社会科学，哈哈。过奖。
【在 l*c 的大作中提到】
: LZ英文vocabulary, reasoning都非常棒，还很有姿态。对比之下，那个美国人就没什
: 么风度。
: 问一下lz从事什么专业的？
|
a******o
发帖数: 261 | 60 the impression i get from reading the exchange was not that
"她说不下去了"
if anything, your exchange w/ her just confirmed her view that there are
strongly opinionated people out there who are "deeply indoctrinated by
the
Chinese media" and won't change their mind regardless.
It's one thing to discuss freedom of speech at a high level; and had you
kept it there, it would be one thing. But when you mixed that with
general
statements like "dalai is the worst human rights violator", or "dalai
has
ties |
|
|
k*********r
发帖数: 287 | |
w*********s
发帖数: 2136 | |
w*********s
发帖数: 2136 | 63 ha! 想起 George Carlin 谈濒危物种问题。
该自然淘汰的文化物种就该在博物馆呆着。
【在 m*****5 的大作中提到】
: 问题在于，"culture genocide"这个词就是个根本的伪命题，你如果先接受了这个符号
: 的意义，就等于接受了这套狼指责小羊从下游污染上游水源的逻辑，下面你怎么辩都徒
: 劳了
|
m*****5
发帖数: 23482 | 64
我觉得更贴切的是他关于SOFT WORD的段子，把呕吐说成：消化系统朝外喷射蛋白质颗
粒
【在 w*********s 的大作中提到】
: ha! 想起 George Carlin 谈濒危物种问题。
: 该自然淘汰的文化物种就该在博物馆呆着。
|
w*********s
发帖数: 2136 | 65 that's correct too.
"genocide" or "natural distinction"? only the Buddha knows!
【在 m*****5 的大作中提到】
:
: 我觉得更贴切的是他关于SOFT WORD的段子，把呕吐说成：消化系统朝外喷射蛋白质颗
: 粒
|
m*****5
发帖数: 23482 | 66 西藏的文化是童年文化。大人总觉得小孩长大了就不乖了，还是小时候可爱，可孩子还
是要长大，如果孩子长大以后决定要回归童心，那也是长大了的孩子自己的决定。大人
不能把孩子关在家里不让孩子成长啊。 |
w*********s
发帖数: 2136 | 67 “童年文化”倒是有点低估藏传佛教了。某些西藏人在世俗问题上可能是天真得够呛。
正好，这个“天真”又碰上了CIA这个毒品贩子candyman...
该打屁股关rehab也是不得已，我看这一点TG还是对的。
【在 m*****5 的大作中提到】
: 西藏的文化是童年文化。大人总觉得小孩长大了就不乖了，还是小时候可爱，可孩子还
: 是要长大，如果孩子长大以后决定要回归童心，那也是长大了的孩子自己的决定。大人
: 不能把孩子关在家里不让孩子成长啊。
|
m*****5
发帖数: 23482 | 68
藏人的天真其实就是没长大，所以很傻很天真
白鸟人就喜欢这种很傻很天真的文化
tg是一手教鞭一手糖果：你们赶紧长大啊！
【在 w*********s 的大作中提到】
: “童年文化”倒是有点低估藏传佛教了。某些西藏人在世俗问题上可能是天真得够呛。
: 正好，这个“天真”又碰上了CIA这个毒品贩子candyman...
: 该打屁股关rehab也是不得已，我看这一点TG还是对的。
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 69 it's obvious that i failed to change her mind in the exchange no doubt, but
i prefer to see that not as my own failure.
i take it that your stance is that we should leave them alone and let it be.
but do you at least agree that the west is doing anything but that? i would
like to know what you think about the involvement of the west in this whole
mess.
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: the impression i get from reading the exchange was not that
: "她说不下去了"
: if anything, your exchange w/ her just confirmed her view that there are
: strongly opinionated people out there who are "deeply indoctrinated by
: the
: Chinese media" and won't change their mind regardless.
: It's one thing to discuss freedom of speech at a high level; and had you
: kept it there, it would be one thing. But when you mixed that with
: general
: statements like "dalai is the worst human rights violator", or "dalai
|
w*********s
发帖数: 2136 | 70 白人很实际：
无威胁的天真文化，娱乐之；
有无威胁可同化的文化，接轨之；
有威胁又不肯接轨的文化，颜色之；
有威胁又颜色失败，B-2之；
颜色失败，接轨被留了一手，又暂时B-2不了的文化，达赖之。
【在 m*****5 的大作中提到】
:
: 藏人的天真其实就是没长大，所以很傻很天真
: 白鸟人就喜欢这种很傻很天真的文化
: tg是一手教鞭一手糖果：你们赶紧长大啊！
|
|
|
q******7
发帖数: 35 | 71 Quote from nyt:
"if the Chinese had truly treated the Tibetans like the way the people of
the United States treated native Americans, or like the way British settlers
treated the indigenous people of Australia, there would certainly be far
fewer of them alive to cry out and cause such a ruckus today." |
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 72 you have a link?
settlers
【在 q******7 的大作中提到】
: Quote from nyt:
: "if the Chinese had truly treated the Tibetans like the way the people of
: the United States treated native Americans, or like the way British settlers
: treated the indigenous people of Australia, there would certainly be far
: fewer of them alive to cry out and cause such a ruckus today."
|
o*********5
发帖数: 894 | |
E*V
发帖数: 17544 | |
L***6
发帖数: 8307 | 75 跟他们谈这种道义，正义，完全没有意义的。德国这种混蛋不要脸野蛮国家我就不说了
，我在这呆了4年。美国动不动误炸死那么多老百姓，搞秘密监狱虐囚，以前还砍过不
少印第安人，奴役过黑人。。。 西方基本就是实用价值观，谁强大服谁，很原始的，
根本就没人真正关心道义。他们的道义这些都是为实用价值观服务的。所以等中国进一
步强大，不要给TG整垮，就没人提及这些问题了。这帮王八蛋没几个去过中国，没几个
想去中国或西藏，都是妈的嘴痒痒闲的子宫疼，屁话几句找点优越感出来，其实她们狗
屁都不是，一群stupid fucking bitches而已 |
L***6
发帖数: 8307 | 76 没见楼主说的吗？当年NAZI就已经和DALAI非常密切了。。。
我听说德国人相信自己的祖先是从西藏来到欧洲的。
德国这种诡异的王八蛋民族其实不是什么文明国家，他觉得他是从西藏迁移过来的是为
了烘托他的种族优越感，表现他们跟其他欧洲人不一样。实际上德国就是欧洲的一支蛮
族而已，一群十足的野蛮人，其文明无法和意大利，法国，英国相提并论。到Bismarck
时期才有了德国，之前都是一个个分裂的小王国，在欧洲历史上的地位和功能就是战场
，给北欧，南欧，东欧，西欧的人打仗用的地方，很落后也很惨。近代才工业化起来，
一下发达了，就到处杀人放火，结果给美国占领到今天。这帮王八蛋10个有9个心理严
重的变态，是世界上最depressing，最垃圾的民族之一。根本就不要把他们当人类看，
更不要理论，因为人和动物理论本质上就是疯狂的行为。 |
a********0
发帖数: 206 | 77 西方人虚伪著称，只是自己还不知自己屁眼有多脏吧了，因为看不到。
文化灭绝，LZ大可以说北美的印第安文化被灭到什么程度了，南美的玛雅文化在西方人
到来以后又成什么样子。南非还有多少土著文化。等白人干完了这些灭绝后，又假惺惺
地说要保护，“发自肺腑”地保护，可惜白痴的平民不等同于精明的政府，如果有利益
，再稀有的文化也会被白人吞噬掉。
白人的作风永远是，干，干，干，干完了发现错了，道歉，改正，然后大言不惭地教训
别人，而且是不论黑白的乱放屁。 |
s*******t
发帖数: 148 | 78 fair enough. I guess there are several thing we might need to avoid in this
kind of debate:
1. To define xxxxx is xxxxx without reaosning or say , instead of reasoning
2. To attack US's records in such a way that sounds like claiming "we are
both bad, so you have no right to blame me". This doesn't resolve the issue,
this is like kamikaze
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: the impression i get from reading the exchange was not that
: "她说不下去了"
: if anything, your exchange w/ her just confirmed her view that there are
: strongly opinionated people out there who are "deeply indoctrinated by
: the
: Chinese media" and won't change their mind regardless.
: It's one thing to discuss freedom of speech at a high level; and had you
: kept it there, it would be one thing. But when you mixed that with
: general
: statements like "dalai is the worst human rights violator", or "dalai
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 79 我一般不说种族的东西，太复杂了，而且他们会觉得不公平，一旦开始说种族，那就完
全转换话题
了，再也回不来了，哈哈。
thing -
(relating
pretty
money,
China is
hundreds of
they
are
bashing
【在 s*******t 的大作中提到】
: fair enough. I guess there are several thing we might need to avoid in this
: kind of debate:
: 1. To define xxxxx is xxxxx without reaosning or say , instead of reasoning
: 2. To attack US's records in such a way that sounds like claiming "we are
: both bad, so you have no right to blame me". This doesn't resolve the issue,
: this is like kamikaze
|
s*******t
发帖数: 148 | 80 I think you did very well, in both reasoning and manner. Just one thing -
common sense - why, why the western media is biased against China? (relating
to Tibet or other similar issues). If we can reason this, then we pretty
much close the circle on our logic.
For the answer to this question, just my 2 cents, I think it is about money,
just like the reasoning on all other issues in the western world. China is
going to be a super power, the first super power in the recent hundreds of
years that is |
|
|
s*******t
发帖数: 148 | 81 As I said, that is true. So to keep the conversation going, what we can do
is to substitute the racial part with a mild "different social system and
culture" and the rest of the logic keeps the same
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一般不说种族的东西，太复杂了，而且他们会觉得不公平，一旦开始说种族，那就完
: 全转换话题
: 了，再也回不来了，哈哈。
:
: thing -
: (relating
: pretty
: money,
: China is
: hundreds of
|
y******n
发帖数: 155 | 82 Its an honor to see a fellow chinese step up against this sort of person.
Day in and day out we ran into
places where people like your Female American 'friend' try to play 'hard
ball'.
I almost puke seeing how it is ok for her to call FOXNEWS and disagreeing
with what George Bush does,
mean while, you on the other hand is ALSO disagreeing with a Media outlet.
But for some reason, YOU are
against western idea.
And since the fuck when did 'free speech' become part of the 'western idea'
anyway?
She
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
y******n
发帖数: 155 | 83
Also, please note, The Hawaiian Kingdom is currently under the US Occupation.
http://www.hawaiiankingdom.org/us-occupation.shtml
That's something else we should use against tunnel vision person like your
american friend.
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 我一个已经毕业的德国同学发表了一句关于达赖的话，我发表了评论，说西方媒体在西
: 藏问题上不公
: 平造成他们的错误印象，然后他的一个朋友看了不爽，我们开始辩论。我觉得最终她说
: 不下去了，选
: 择放弃。如果各位能够忍着看完这段裹脚布，欢迎评论和指点。
: 以下是记录：
: A(德国同学): wishes the Dalai Lama could return to Tibet and put an end to
: the cultural genocide of his country.
: 我：i have to say you are entirely wrong on this. in short, dalai lama
: was one of the worst human rights violators in recent history before
|
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 84 OK, let's talk about common sense.
If you'd like to understand the so-called "biased" western media, you have
to understand their audience. To most westerners, especially Americans,
there is a clear distinction between government and people, and there is a
deep-root distrust of government. Many laws are set to constrain the power
of government. Just look at all the amendments to the US constitution. You
can hardly find any american who would feel offended if one attacks the US
government. On |
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 85 我觉得你的观点很多美国人有，觉得攻击政府为什么要理解成攻击个人，共计国家，不
是一回事。但是问题在于攻击中国政府的很多都是没有理由和不讲道理的，如果是这样
，我就出来路见不平，但是这并不单表我被征服完全洗脑，处处都要护着政府，事实上
我也经常跟他们感叹我们做的不好不足的地方，如果我掌权我会如何干。西方人看到中
国人为自己政府辩护，不会想到他们无事生非在先，觉得中国人必然被洗脑，失去自由
思维能力，那你说还跟他们有什么可以说？
另外根据我经验很多美国人可是很为自己政府辩护的阿，很多人觉得世界需要一个霸权
来维护秩序，难道他们也被洗脑？ |
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 86 另外媒体报道中国有偏向是事实，不仅是偏颇，很多就是谎花。如果你是中国人我想不
需要我给你举例，连知道真相的美国人都这么觉得。这些不可否认吧。 |
f********e
发帖数: 29 | 87 It looks fairly clear to me that she did not "lose the argument", on the
contrary she probably dropped out of it becoz you are the one that failed to
reason.
Separating government from the people is the first step in a democratic and
free country, if you became hostile simply becoz someone criticizes your
government, it only discredits your opinions.
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 另外媒体报道中国有偏向是事实，不仅是偏颇，很多就是谎花。如果你是中国人我想不
: 需要我给你举例，连知道真相的美国人都这么觉得。这些不可否认吧。
|
a******o
发帖数: 261 | 88 Actually that's not quite my stance.
I can see from the exchange that initially she genuinely wanted to have
a quality discussion with you. But towards the end of the exchange, she
was quite turned off by what she perceives as "just another chinese
brain-washed by her communist government". I mean, just look at the
tone in her last message - it was down right sarcastic and harsh. When
someone enters that state of mind, whatever message you have, even good
ones, are all lost.
My stance is simp
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: it's obvious that i failed to change her mind in the exchange no doubt, but
: i prefer to see that not as my own failure.
: i take it that your stance is that we should leave them alone and let it be.
: but do you at least agree that the west is doing anything but that? i would
: like to know what you think about the involvement of the west in this whole
: mess.
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 89 把政府和人民分开始他们的“民主”标准，为什么一定要用他们的标准进行辩论才是正
确的？不用他们的
标准就是不讲理？
failed to
and
【在 f********e 的大作中提到】
: It looks fairly clear to me that she did not "lose the argument", on the
: contrary she probably dropped out of it becoz you are the one that failed to
: reason.
: Separating government from the people is the first step in a democratic and
: free country, if you became hostile simply becoz someone criticizes your
: government, it only discredits your opinions.
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 90 你说的有一定道理，但是我并不认识她，不知道如何应对她的思维去说服她，回头看，
我做了能做得最
好。
最后一句什么意思，民主才是唯一的准则？不是真的民主就什么都不用谈？
那我看我没有资格辩论。
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: Actually that's not quite my stance.
: I can see from the exchange that initially she genuinely wanted to have
: a quality discussion with you. But towards the end of the exchange, she
: was quite turned off by what she perceives as "just another chinese
: brain-washed by her communist government". I mean, just look at the
: tone in her last message - it was down right sarcastic and harsh. When
: someone enters that state of mind, whatever message you have, even good
: ones, are all lost.
: My stance is simp
|
|
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 91 我并没有觉得我变得有攻击性，相反她最后说话很不客气，而且我根本就没有替政府辩
护一句话。难道
是因为我是批评美国媒体的中国人而她是美国人为媒体辩护你就自然想到“you became
hostile
simply becoz someone criticizes your government”。你这话怎么感觉被经常在不
同场合
针对中国人使用。
failed to
and
【在 f********e 的大作中提到】
: It looks fairly clear to me that she did not "lose the argument", on the
: contrary she probably dropped out of it becoz you are the one that failed to
: reason.
: Separating government from the people is the first step in a democratic and
: free country, if you became hostile simply becoz someone criticizes your
: government, it only discredits your opinions.
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 92
and
我越来越感觉你的这番话跟我的辩论毫无任何联系，我的结论只能是你经常在中国人美
国人进行这种讨
论时对中方辩友下这种结论。我建议你把原文读一遍，欢迎指正，但找一些对题的东西
来。
【在 f********e 的大作中提到】
: It looks fairly clear to me that she did not "lose the argument", on the
: contrary she probably dropped out of it becoz you are the one that failed to
: reason.
: Separating government from the people is the first step in a democratic and
: free country, if you became hostile simply becoz someone criticizes your
: government, it only discredits your opinions.
|
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 93 Separating government from the people has nothing to do with "民主", it's
called "republic", and was coined into our country's name, ironically, by
our founding father. (Don't you think china now is anything but "republic"?)
The core concept of "republic" is to prevent abusing of power. This is why
one wants to separate government from the people, just like one wants to
separate state from religion. In a mixed situation the people often become the
abused party since they have less power.
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 把政府和人民分开始他们的“民主”标准，为什么一定要用他们的标准进行辩论才是正
: 确的？不用他们的
: 标准就是不讲理？
:
: failed to
: and
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 94 This is why one wants to separate government from the people
谁能做到?美国做到了吗？
能不能少谈一些大道理，说眼下的事情，比如开头那场辩论应该怎么做，不该怎么做。 |
a******o
发帖数: 261 | 95 >> 但是我并不认识她，不知道如何应对她的思维去说服她
well the whole point of ANY debate is to persuade others of your
perspective - and the best way to do that is to follow their logic and
thought process.
Otherwise, what you have is two people speaking two languages (AND not
necessarily even to each other) - what does that accomplish, and why
even start a debate if that's the case?
Empathy is at the root of every healthy, constructive debate.
The point of my last quote is this: don't be hypocritical - you were
trying t
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 你说的有一定道理，但是我并不认识她，不知道如何应对她的思维去说服她，回头看，
: 我做了能做得最
: 好。
: 最后一句什么意思，民主才是唯一的准则？不是真的民主就什么都不用谈？
: 那我看我没有资格辩论。
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 96 我显得思维狭窄，那她呢？她根本就不是在辩论，都没有跟我针锋相对，只是再说自己
的东西。
你觉得她的思维狭窄吗？
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: >> 但是我并不认识她，不知道如何应对她的思维去说服她
: well the whole point of ANY debate is to persuade others of your
: perspective - and the best way to do that is to follow their logic and
: thought process.
: Otherwise, what you have is two people speaking two languages (AND not
: necessarily even to each other) - what does that accomplish, and why
: even start a debate if that's the case?
: Empathy is at the root of every healthy, constructive debate.
: The point of my last quote is this: don't be hypocritical - you were
: trying t
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 97 我有什么地方表现的伪善？我一直在说事实。因为我是中国人而且说了根西方主流观点
不同的东西，所
以我要照镜子？
don't be hypocritical - you were |
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 98 "Empathy is at the root of every healthy, constructive debate."
agree - unfortunately, empathy quite often becomes a "rare" item among today
's Chinese.
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: >> 但是我并不认识她，不知道如何应对她的思维去说服她
: well the whole point of ANY debate is to persuade others of your
: perspective - and the best way to do that is to follow their logic and
: thought process.
: Otherwise, what you have is two people speaking two languages (AND not
: necessarily even to each other) - what does that accomplish, and why
: even start a debate if that's the case?
: Empathy is at the root of every healthy, constructive debate.
: The point of my last quote is this: don't be hypocritical - you were
: trying t
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 99 缺乏同感是相互的，没必要全部怪罪中国人身上吧。你是否反对我说这个女的对于我没
有empathy？
today
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: "Empathy is at the root of every healthy, constructive debate."
: agree - unfortunately, empathy quite often becomes a "rare" item among today
: 's Chinese.
|
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 100 this american woman is certainly an ignorant a** since she doesn't
understand what the freedom of speech is. but whether or not this american
girl has empathy is not the issue, since it is you who tried to present a
case to convince her. As the other ID said, If both of you lack empathy,
why you even bother to convince her?
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 缺乏同感是相互的，没必要全部怪罪中国人身上吧。你是否反对我说这个女的对于我没
: 有empathy？
:
: today
|
|
|
a******o
发帖数: 261 | 101 Agree.
Not every American has it either, to be sure.
We are all products of our environment and personal experiences.
It is very hard and uncomfortable even, for anyone to step out of their "境
界" and look at things from a completely different perspective.
today
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: "Empathy is at the root of every healthy, constructive debate."
: agree - unfortunately, empathy quite often becomes a "rare" item among today
: 's Chinese.
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 102 但是美国人还不是中国人更加能够感同身受？
"境
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: Agree.
: Not every American has it either, to be sure.
: We are all products of our environment and personal experiences.
: It is very hard and uncomfortable even, for anyone to step out of their "境
: 界" and look at things from a completely different perspective.
:
: today
|
a******o
发帖数: 261 | 103 I will have to tip it to Americans.
The bell curve of thought diversity distribution for Chinese is very
narrow - to a lot of Chinese, they can't even fathom HOW someone else
COULD have a completely different view point on certain issues that they
considered obvious and fundamental, let alone trying to empathize with
these view points. They mostly dismiss these perspectives outright in
favor of easy outs like "oh they are just brainwashed".
Well guess what? from the other perspective, some time
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
: 但是美国人还不是中国人更加能够感同身受？
:
: "境
|
B********e
发帖数: 310 | 104 agree with alertipo and cmp..sth.
Lz is bad at logical thinking.
the main issue you two were discussing is whether one can have a relatively
factual or truthful observation and description and explanation of a
political event. "one" can be either Chinese or Western press.
the American girl's argument is that if a government does not deliberately
control the access and distribution of the information of the event,
therefore there can be multiple sources of report on the event, you are more
likely |
E*V
发帖数: 17544 | 105 我认为你这个是一厢情愿
你和美国红脖子边一边试试？
问题不在这个，我烂的说了
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: I will have to tip it to Americans.
: The bell curve of thought diversity distribution for Chinese is very
: narrow - to a lot of Chinese, they can't even fathom HOW someone else
: COULD have a completely different view point on certain issues that they
: considered obvious and fundamental, let alone trying to empathize with
: these view points. They mostly dismiss these perspectives outright in
: favor of easy outs like "oh they are just brainwashed".
: Well guess what? from the other perspective, some time
|
c**e
发帖数: 5555 | 106 so you call this logic? LOL
relatively
more
【在 B********e 的大作中提到】
: agree with alertipo and cmp..sth.
: Lz is bad at logical thinking.
: the main issue you two were discussing is whether one can have a relatively
: factual or truthful observation and description and explanation of a
: political event. "one" can be either Chinese or Western press.
: the American girl's argument is that if a government does not deliberately
: control the access and distribution of the information of the event,
: therefore there can be multiple sources of report on the event, you are more
: likely
|
c**e
发帖数: 5555 | 107 ppl have completely different view points because they have different
benefits.
It's not about brainwashed. "Double standards" is the standard of the
civilized world.
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: I will have to tip it to Americans.
: The bell curve of thought diversity distribution for Chinese is very
: narrow - to a lot of Chinese, they can't even fathom HOW someone else
: COULD have a completely different view point on certain issues that they
: considered obvious and fundamental, let alone trying to empathize with
: these view points. They mostly dismiss these perspectives outright in
: favor of easy outs like "oh they are just brainwashed".
: Well guess what? from the other perspective, some time
|
a******o
发帖数: 261 | 108 well I thank you for your reply - you have just proven my exact point in
my previous posts.
【在 E*V 的大作中提到】
: 我认为你这个是一厢情愿
: 你和美国红脖子边一边试试？
: 问题不在这个，我烂的说了
|
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 109 you know why? because "debate" is really not something in our Chinese's
blood - It's too Greek. Our way of "reasoning" is elimination - physically
and mentally (or spiritually). Chairman Mao & our founding fathers have told
us many times ... hehe
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: I will have to tip it to Americans.
: The bell curve of thought diversity distribution for Chinese is very
: narrow - to a lot of Chinese, they can't even fathom HOW someone else
: COULD have a completely different view point on certain issues that they
: considered obvious and fundamental, let alone trying to empathize with
: these view points. They mostly dismiss these perspectives outright in
: favor of easy outs like "oh they are just brainwashed".
: Well guess what? from the other perspective, some time
|
d***y
发帖数: 8536 | |
|
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 111 thanks for being a judge and delivering the result. according to you i lost
(bummer!) even before the debate started, because i am arguing with opinions
bound to be wrong. so it does not really matter how i argue, i would lose
simply because i started out wrong.
the whole point i tried to make is that free press does not necessarily
deliver unbiased reporting. in fact under the name of free press a lot of
media twist stories in their favor for political reasons. i am establishing
this as a fact,
【在 B********e 的大作中提到】
: agree with alertipo and cmp..sth.
: Lz is bad at logical thinking.
: the main issue you two were discussing is whether one can have a relatively
: factual or truthful observation and description and explanation of a
: political event. "one" can be either Chinese or Western press.
: the American girl's argument is that if a government does not deliberately
: control the access and distribution of the information of the event,
: therefore there can be multiple sources of report on the event, you are more
: likely
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 112 that i will not disagree. but because of that i should give up the right to
debate as a chinese because it's not "in my blood"? well i don't see you
having a problem debating against me.
i see how it is, if you are chinese, you should not debate with an american,
because you will just lose.
nice logic there.
told
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: you know why? because "debate" is really not something in our Chinese's
: blood - It's too Greek. Our way of "reasoning" is elimination - physically
: and mentally (or spiritually). Chairman Mao & our founding fathers have told
: us many times ... hehe
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 113
relatively
that's never the main issue at hand in this debate. the real issue is can
distortions and bias exist under free speech. it has nothing to do with
china or the US. i am not suggesting either or both are biased or fair. we
were simply arguing about the relation between media bias and free speech.
if you think this is a china/US issue, it only serves as proof that you came
in here with pre-established opinions and try to somehow relate your
opinions to the real issue here, while they ma
【在 B********e 的大作中提到】
: agree with alertipo and cmp..sth.
: Lz is bad at logical thinking.
: the main issue you two were discussing is whether one can have a relatively
: factual or truthful observation and description and explanation of a
: political event. "one" can be either Chinese or Western press.
: the American girl's argument is that if a government does not deliberately
: control the access and distribution of the information of the event,
: therefore there can be multiple sources of report on the event, you are more
: likely
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 114 who's english are you talking about? so many here are now using english,
some trying to make their points stronger by doing so:)
【在 d***y 的大作中提到】
: 英语很好，超级赞。
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 115
told
yet the very frikin' thing you are doing is debating. or trying hard to do
that.
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: you know why? because "debate" is really not something in our Chinese's
: blood - It's too Greek. Our way of "reasoning" is elimination - physically
: and mentally (or spiritually). Chairman Mao & our founding fathers have told
: us many times ... hehe
|
c******c
发帖数: 418 | 116 It's just a " frikin' " joke, hehe.
But I seriously doubt you really understand that american lady's point.
She never suggested that "freedom of speech" means everything comes from the
media is true or unbiased. Rather, what she implied is that in a society
with "freedom of speech", you have access to all sort of information, biased
or unbiased. An intelligent person should be able to digest these
information and form his/her own opinion, instead of believing one way or
the other.
So when she sa
【在 a********l 的大作中提到】
:
: told
: yet the very frikin' thing you are doing is debating. or trying hard to do
: that.
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 117 "in a society with "freedom of speech", you have access to all sort of
information, biased or unbiased. An intelligent person should be able to
digest these information and for his/her own opinion, instead of
believing one way or the other."
this much i will agree on whole-heartedly, and i am not denying that at
any point if you care to check. but again, that's not the question being
argued here, the question is: can free speech give way to biased media?
point.
from the
society
biased
or
see
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: It's just a " frikin' " joke, hehe.
: But I seriously doubt you really understand that american lady's point.
: She never suggested that "freedom of speech" means everything comes from the
: media is true or unbiased. Rather, what she implied is that in a society
: with "freedom of speech", you have access to all sort of information, biased
: or unbiased. An intelligent person should be able to digest these
: information and form his/her own opinion, instead of believing one way or
: the other.
: So when she sa
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 118 "So when she said these two sentences: "Sure, Fox News is propaganda."
"no I don't think propaganda can exist in a free society.", I don't see
anything contradictory to each other."
this, however, is total BS and beyond the reasoning of fundamental
logic. the second statement is what's called a perfect counter-example
to disprove the first one.
let me give you something similar here:
statement 1: china has complete freedom of press.
statement 2: in the chinese transcript of pres. obama's inaugur
【在 c******c 的大作中提到】
: It's just a " frikin' " joke, hehe.
: But I seriously doubt you really understand that american lady's point.
: She never suggested that "freedom of speech" means everything comes from the
: media is true or unbiased. Rather, what she implied is that in a society
: with "freedom of speech", you have access to all sort of information, biased
: or unbiased. An intelligent person should be able to digest these
: information and form his/her own opinion, instead of believing one way or
: the other.
: So when she sa
|
a********l
发帖数: 39524 | 119 where is everyone? let's keep this thread going. |
