w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 1 如果你们坚信poker sites公正,就去PS打low buyin rebuy MTT.Should be most
profitable.那个鱼啊,flop以后不断有人用中对,小对call allin.
反正我给bad beats得不敢打了.你们去试,要是成了,我再去.
说实话我MTT赚的多的都是low buyin rebuy MTT.所以总结一下好象是low buyin rebuy MTT鱼多容易赚.可是昨天今天就不太行了.昨天只赚一百,今天打到现在,一盘都没赢过. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 2 Maybe not. There are many MTT pros, you can check record of following
players.
Peargammered, Ducku(both ftp and stars, win ftp main event several times, 1k
monday one time, stars wins 2rd for 10k buyin game), MoormanI, AJKHoosier1
I do not think they can win coin flip every time, there are something we do
not know about MTT game.
And you will see these online MTT players in WSOP MAIN event also, and usually they are very very deep, around 300rd or better. Watching Wsop main event yesterday, phil |
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w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 3 在FTP打MTT两天,进FT 5,6次,一个第一,两个第二,一个第4,进钱圈的没进FT的也有5,6
次.
在PS打了MTT一天,所有games都没熬过前一个小时.allin时基本都领先被bad beats.总
共只赢过一两次.
在PS, flop以后对手中对甚至小对都敢call allin.这在FTP根本不可想象.这是输给
good players?就是因为PS鱼多才耐性子打的一天.最后放弃.
FTP也有bad beats啊,但是毕竟good beats多于bad beats
ps只有bad beats,good beats是稀有动物.
你们到PS试一试$3 rebuy MTT就知道PS鱼什么打法. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 4 Just check the record's shark365, sounds he can not beat 90ppl KO MTT SNG
anymore??? ---- not very sure though.
check Kennl's record, sounds he can not beat 45PPL MTT sng anymore???
check lamma888's record, sounds he can not beat 180ppl 12$ buyin MTT SNG as
before???
My estimation:
1. Shark365's former winning method does not work that well as before. OR
ppl learn the same method.
2. More and more regulars are involved in those games.
3. Fishes are not that bad as before, they also learn sth.
C |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 what's your stack size?
if you only got 7-8BB alike, his call is OK after squeezing 3x already (well
, 3x here is not even squeezing but stealing). against any random hand, 25
looks stupid but actually not that bad, unless you got a made pair or A2/A5
alike, this hand is not dominated (unlike KJ by AJ alike). against hands
like AT, KQ, KJ (in your shoving range), guess what? the odds are actually
ok.
as for the luck part, yes, we need it, but we need more skills to build a
bigger stack first too... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 MTT就是广种薄收，3月(说3年也许过了)不开张，开张过3月，
这说的还是象yjj这样每天至少10几20个MTT专职干的人，一次成功(也许还只是final
table而非前三)的背后，一堆又一堆375th，62nd，17th...
打几块钱的MTT，其结果怎么样不会让俺们变富或者变穷的，只是便宜的学习练手机会
而已。
$3 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 7 It will kill fish more quickly.
A lot of regulars will lower their average BUYINs.
Nowadays, I usually do not play those 5$ or 10$ tourneys, however, if they
do introduce multiple entry policys, I will play more of those 10$ tourneys,
supposing I have a huge advantage on 5$, 10$ buyin MTTs.
As you may know, the In To Money ratio in MTT is around 13%. If your edge is
big in one MTT, the ITM ratio could pump to 25%, plus your FT chance, your
top 3 is higher than average players in the field also.... 阅读全帖 |
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c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 8 SNG ICM作用大，所以容易出现chip EV 和 money EV 差别大的情况。这时需要仔细权
衡。
MTT ICM作用不大。大多数时候可以偷懒把Chip EV算成值0.9 money EV就好了。也就是
说没死钱的时候51%的coin flip不划算。要55%以上的ODDS才可以。和cash也就这点小
区别。
MTT的bubble影响不是很大。因为一般进去也就2个buyin的奖金。当然，你要说WSOP ME
的那2个buyin太主要了所以你要fold进钱圈。这也合理。但那主要是bankroll和心理的
因素。EV肯定是-ev的。$10k buyin的比赛和$10 buyin的比赛在EV理论上没有本质区别。
MTT的final table payjump巨大。ICM起很大作用。这时才大量出现楼主说的要避免
variance的情况。我个人如果是chip leader的时候，在final table基本都是只玩
premium hand。几乎不make a play的。我对这种打法表示十分心情轻松愉快。这样打
大多数时候没牌会变成小筹码但是能安全进前3。按ICM缺省算法9个人时候的C... 阅读全帖 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 9 Maybe not. There are many MTT pros, you can check record of following
players.
Peargammered, Ducku(both ftp and stars, win ftp main event several times, 1k
monday one time, stars wins 2rd for 10k buyin game), MoormanI, AJKHoosier1
I do not think they can win coin flip every time, there are something we do
not know about MTT game.
And you will see these online MTT players in WSOP MAIN event also, and usually they are very very deep, around 300rd or better. Watching Wsop main event yesterday, phil |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 10 MTT is tough, that's why you need to have at least 100 buy-ins to play some
serious MTTs as one pro suggests, which sounds to me like 80% of time you'll
get nothing after hours of battle, 10% you may get your buy-in back on the
bubble, 5% some $, 5% real $ if you're "lucky".
you'll have to accumulate a huge chunk of chips early to survive in these "
dominated" but "unlucky" suck outs.
you'll have to win quite a few races, "if you can't win a race, you can't
win a tourney".
you'll have to pay a l |
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c****u
发帖数: 3277 | 11 yeah, agree. Also mtt's fluctuation is huge. So even if you play correctly,
you may not see any major wins in several months or even years. That's why
few really play mtt as their major source of income and many make their
living doing sng or cash games.
win
to |
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D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 12 factor of winning a big MTT is
LUCK,LUCK,LUCK
Win top 3 for a MTT Over 2000 ppl is like flip coin for
7 times continuous same side
win
to |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 13 they run $5.5, 11, 26 MTT tournament about every hour in the evenings.
normally you can find $5.5 ones with 300-600 players. $26 ones typically
have 1000+ players.
SNGs are more often. it doesn't mean single-table SNGs only, they have 90 or
180 multi table SNGs all the time. it's actually more like a small MTT. i
guess this might be the thing you're looking for. pokeryjj plays a lot of $8
.8 or 11 180 players games. |
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w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 14 26 MTT are guarantees therefore too many players.
If a MTT has too many players,too difficult to get to FT.While FT is the
most profitable part of the game structure.
For a game of around 100 players, once you get in money zone, you are in FT.
or
$8 |
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f*f
发帖数: 121 | 15 those big Sunday tournaments are very soft, a friend once told me (he's a
top MTT player) there are about 1000 decent MTT players in the world, so for
any tournament that has 2000 or more players in it, at least half of the
field are very bad. And those Sunday tournaments often has 4000+ players in
them. In fact, since I don't play tournaments much, I don't know who the
regulars are, in early stages, I just assume everyone is bad until proven
otherwise.
way
tell the guy what you have. See wha |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 16 Was many MTT does not meet the guarantee.
Now many MTT has double $ than the guarantee. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 17 Many MTT takes RUSH format and it gets many r+a.
MTT, 3, R+A, gets 27K+ (normally 17K only) today. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 18 hhee, I wish.
Ye, it is satellite. That is what I mean MTT/stlt. I played a few MTT/PLO/HI-LOW
and fished in final table twice(low buy-in thou).
Won 3 FTOP/stlt (around $400) at weekdays and lost all at the weekend. Tried
mutliples for FTOP/ME and all failed. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 19 Played one MTT. Hopped in late (bb=60 already). But played TAG and tripled
up soon, 2X of the average. Well, one hand got pure lucky (limpin w/ 35s and
hit straight flush. one got nut flush on turn and allin).
After a while, the avg chip goes up and I barely moved (engaged in another
satellite MTT, won that one). My chip is only 1.5X avg, focused and moved up
somewhere.
Then decide to play LAG. The table is rather tight. Most raises collect BB
only.
Raise/Call raise a lot. Less than 20 min, chip |
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p******e
发帖数: 327 | 20 听说cmi大牛要写经验，很期待。。。
希望各位高手能不能指点一下MTT怎么打？
我一般只玩MTT，还是都是几百几千人参加的那种，感觉很难打，和前面一哥们的感觉
一样。以前非常tight,然后被suck out超多，有段时间还拿笔纸画正字来记着suck out
别人和被别人suck out的次数。。。背的时候可以连着9个game被suck out。反正就是
很不lucky。后来增加自己的range就好像好一点点，比较平衡。但是我打法不稳定，一
会儿tight，一会儿lose, 请问这个怎么控制？
还有blinds很小, AK, AQ, AJ等怎么打？发现raise了5个BB都有人跟然后输掉。
还有，想知道自己stack在15-20BB怎么打？ 20-30怎么打？ 30-40呢？
感觉最难的就是18BB-25BB这段，我不太会。
怎么resteal?什么时候这样打？我发现很多人small pair和mid pair reraise，如果我
当时只有30BB，还应该这样做吗？
除了steal, squeeze,还有什么需要知道的preflop打法？
多谢多谢！ |
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P******y
发帖数: 55 | 21 大家的回复跟预想的比较一致 实际情况是I snap call, villain showed 57h, Qd
came on the turn, but unfortunately I didn't hit any of the ~19 outs on the
river. hero, the original chip leader, dropped down to below avg and villain
(second in chip before this hand) became the leader.
其实这相对而言是一个easy call尤其是在cash game或者late stage tourney (in the
money),我把这手牌放出来还是想跟大家探讨一下选手Stack和Tourney的进程对这手牌
分析的影响。
首先这个MTT是三天的日程包括三个day 1，这手牌是在level 5. UTG+1选手比较nitty
，stack也较浅，不到20k，preflop raising 4bb and leading out pot size (1/3 of
hi... 阅读全帖 |
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c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 22 Top1 肯定call。因为winner takes all的比赛和cash game一样。没有ICM
Top2 肯定不call。一般是6.6/3.3分钱。所以guarantee的230% ROI。比call进去的
return高。call进去远没有40%的equity。
Top3 也肯定不call。因为是5/3/2的分布。所以还是要guarantee的200%的ROI。
但是SNG和MTT不一样。SNG ICM起的作用很大。MTT大部分时候ICM只起一点点作用。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 23 MTT is tough, that's why you need to have at least 100 buy-ins to play some
serious MTTs as one pro suggests, which sounds to me like 80% of time you'll
get nothing after hours of battle, 10% you may get your buy-in back on the
bubble, 5% some $, 5% real $ if you're "lucky".
you'll have to accumulate a huge chunk of chips early to survive in these "
dominated" but "unlucky" suck outs.
you'll have to win quite a few races, "if you can't win a race, you can't
win a tourney".
you'll have to pay a l |
|
c****u
发帖数: 3277 | 24 yeah, agree. Also mtt's fluctuation is huge. So even if you play correctly,
you may not see any major wins in several months or even years. That's why
few really play mtt as their major source of income and many make their
living doing sng or cash games.
win
to |
|
D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 25 factor of winning a big MTT is
LUCK,LUCK,LUCK
Win top 3 for a MTT Over 2000 ppl is like flip coin for
7 times continuous same side
win
to |
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c*h
发帖数: 33018 | 26 应该不是一个人。
xxyyzz112233是个大老爷们。
MTT是个MM |
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c*h
发帖数: 33018 | 27 很多人见过那个大老爷们。
MTT MM我间接地听到过她的声音。 |
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K******n
发帖数: 27 | 30 有没有办法把 search 做得比 MTT 好？ |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 32 俺觉得MTT就最后这20%阶段，靠近bubble到只剩5%选手阶段最难打也最考验技术运气。
之前好打，见机行动，等好牌，找donks，甚至什么都不打，1/3的人已经阵亡了。而最
后阶段，大家都有还够意思的钱拿了(虽然ladder很陡)，而且chips/blinds也不象20%
那时候那么急迫。 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 33 MTT is toughest game. This kind of big field need luck to win. Later on,
everyone has around 3M--8M. The guy who can steal the blinds often will win
in the end.
The payout is also very important, need to enter into final table and try to
win top 3. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 34 fryking , try to play 180ppl tournament. It is very good for practicing MTT
skills
including bubble play, later tournament play, final table bubble play, short
hand playing, and Heads up playing. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 35 Sound not correct enough. If 1200 ppl into the game, 150 ppl into the money.
everyone has 3000 starting chips, you need at least 12k chips to into the
money. 28k chip is the average.
allin in later stage with short stack is very hard. PPl will call u with
anything. ak can not hold. and surely, better hand will call u.
the bubble play is very hard for short stack.
甚至什么都不打------it can not garantee you with a healthy stack to steal blinds, and even harder to get deep enough of MTT. The 18th get aro |
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h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 36 那个写MTT经验的人说，从in the money到final table，你要做的就是比较aggressive
并加上不断的拿到好牌，一轮至少要steal一次blinds to stay alive。不过我觉得要
注意steal的对象，那些还不是特别short的stack会容易fold，他们在等牌allin。对最
short或是比较大的stack要小心一点。当然，最重要的是观察对手的style，敢于
reraise的最好不要去steal了。
他还说了一个很有意思的经验：在刚刚ITM的时候，要玩得保守一点。因为这个时候大
家都relived，玩得loose，你反而要保守一点，什么都不敢都可以很快上升一些名次。 |
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w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 37 刚在FTP打了一场SNG,45人$10 buyin,FT时还是chip第二,结果给个乱冲乱打的踢出去了
,两对对他一对top pair,river掉了.不喜欢SNG.
今天在STARS打了很多场MTT,bad beats 无数.good beats好像只有一两次.
fuck stars.bye.
前几天问FTP有没有bank transfer,回说不行,只能给"selected group".所以就提了张
支票.昨天突然发现加上bank transfer功能了,马上又提一笔,今天下午就到帐.比stars
还快一天. |
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w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 38 PS开户很多年了.一直是赢钱的.
问题是同样打MTT,两边反差太大.
不是几个sites,有二三十个了.都是开户一段时间运气极好,没有好到5天赚$1000+,基本
上就是两天能打到三百.唯一列外那那家,后来卷了牌手的钱消失了. |
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D*****A
发帖数: 551 | 39 我昨天玩了一个$3 buy in的MTT。第7名。60刀。到后来实在太困了，坚持不住。
其实整体上我的精神状态还算可以，头脑还算清楚。
另外阿，12月份的AC之旅都谁去阿？要不要提前订酒店？ |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 40 nice to have a poker addicted wife, haha.
i never play those 5000+ (not even 2000+) players MTTs, yeah, 99% of time,
it'll be a waste of time.
i was so tempted to play the big little tournament last weekend, $5.5 and
double guarantee. FTP needed 50K players to be even and only ~40K entered,
so there's quite some free money from FTP. but the idea of losing a whole
afternoon+evening really kept me away.
i'd suggest to play some $5+ ones with 1K players, at least you'd likely
make $100 or so for yo |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 41 The regular big MTTs are too time consuming. 6 hours, i only made to 300ish
. The turbo game is ok. I acually was in the turbo BLT game the other week.
Don't remember the exact rank I was, but i made to 3rd layer of money (15$
) in just 2 hour, which is not bad. But again, if you want to get to the
real big money in turbo game, you have to be pretty lucky in many occations.
It becomes a shove fest quickly because everyone is short stack. My A 10
run into 9 10, and still lost... |
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p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 42 7500人的regular MTT进入钱圈大概都要5个小时吧？俺打了n次，只进过两次钱圈，打
完之后都快累死了。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 43 lol, you just have to be lucky in an MTT, at least once or twice.
luck has two flavors: when you're way ahead, still hold, and way behind,
suck out. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 44 216+ buy-in with 2000ppl. Wow, that is enticing.
Is this from PokerStar? In FTP, I typically see 500~800 buy-in
for MTT at this buy-in level. Weekend will be higher, but not 2,000ppl.
Wish I have that kind of bankroll to try. Might be out early though.
for
in |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 45 one MTT has 23.5K guarantee. At the end, it has 100+. This is extreme. But
many has 2X guarantee $ today.
1-hr register indeed does the trick. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 46 800 at RUSH 25. It is find of crazy. But Idid not play there.
I tried RUSH/MTT. It always goes up and then bamm get knocked out by
crazy guy (inside straise draw, middle pair).
levels. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 47 One bottleneck in MTT is, when BB goes up to 160+, players tight up.
Need to learn LAG at that stage. Might shift between TAG and LAG with
smaller period, rather than whole-block period. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 48 MTT stucks. Sometimes make money (tiny) and then hit the wall (beat
by funky hands). Guess I played turbo/PLO too much, and become
too loose/aggressive. 3X w/ marginal hand and not fold to allin/X-back.
More times, go sink before $.
But won two 240+16 satellite. Bankroll just inched up. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 49 it's normal. you can check many good MTTers' stats, oftentimes they get
nothing or barely break even for months, then suddenly a big jump, ... it's
kind of a lottery (although you still need to have tons of skills), many
times you'll finish like 15th or 30th, in general, not a bad run at all, but
you get little money.
so next time when you finish top 3 in a big MTT, look back for all those
other times... lol. |
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p**h
发帖数: 737 | 50 我无数次在mtt中被击毙了。
今天kk vs kq,别人flop就拿了2个q，我出局了。
这需要非凡的连续的运气才能拿一个第一。 |
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