V******t
发帖数: 444 | 1 http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/fddL3RjWOVg/
太惨了。主人公都哭了。
主人公，生物博后谢颖秋为什么变成了一个loser？
是性格原因？性格懦弱，不敢拼搏？
是运气不好？
是能力不够？科研的洞察力不够，视野狭窄，不知道什么是好的科学，什么是重要的问
题。选择一个小题目，勤奋地做，却越做越错？
还是不够勤奋？
还是 。。。
到底为什么啊，看视频，他也蛮自律的，很勤奋。主动教美国小孩中午，锻炼英语；坚
持打排球，锻炼意志力和身体。
为什么会变成loser啊 |
V******t
发帖数: 444 | 2 大家说说啊。
到底为什么。怎么才能避免自己也变成这样的loser |
W***o
发帖数: 6519 | 3 行业问题
【在 V******t 的大作中提到】
: 大家说说啊。
: 到底为什么。怎么才能避免自己也变成这样的loser
|
V******t
发帖数: 444 | 4 但是总有winner啊。那些winner是怎么做到的？
我觉得做学术，最重要的是眼光、洞察力和品位，知道什么问题重要、什么课题能出成
果，什么实验室能进、怎么做事情能直达目标；其次是坚持和勤奋；再次是好性格和灵
活变通，不钻牛角尖；最后是运气。
四点具备，就稳拿。差一条，就悲剧；差两条以上，就loser。
唉，太难了，太难了。
【在 W***o 的大作中提到】
: 行业问题
|
W***o
发帖数: 6519 | 5 winner? so biology is awesome? I don't get your logic
【在 V******t 的大作中提到】
: 但是总有winner啊。那些winner是怎么做到的？
: 我觉得做学术，最重要的是眼光、洞察力和品位，知道什么问题重要、什么课题能出成
: 果，什么实验室能进、怎么做事情能直达目标；其次是坚持和勤奋；再次是好性格和灵
: 活变通，不钻牛角尖；最后是运气。
: 四点具备，就稳拿。差一条，就悲剧；差两条以上，就loser。
: 唉，太难了，太难了。
|
F*Q
发帖数: 3259 | 6 一切行业中个人成功最具决定作用的体制，如果行业内有一个公平、公正的体制，那么
成功就在于个人。如果有一个操蛋的体制，个人的作用就会被极大地弱化。大家可能会
说，遵循体制也是个人能力的一个方面。这绝对没错，问题是如果那个体制太操蛋，比
如学术圈尤其是生物界的研究结果的发表权掌握在老板手里以及推荐信制度这两点。一
旦你的工作触及到老板的切身利益，你的学术前程就死翘翘！有些人可能还会强辩，选
择实验室的眼光也是个人能力的一个重要方面，也没错。但是学术界那么隐藏的骗子，
表面看来一切都很美好，一流学校的教授，时不时有顶级杂志CNS上发表的文章，而那
些造假的、诚实的错误、和不造假的一样都是文章。谁知道哪些是造假的、那些是诚实
的错误、哪些是货真价实的？所以，选实验室就存在很大的运气成份。最后，即使是“
好”的实验室，能够“成功的”的也只是少数，大多数只是分母而已。大多数分母并不
是因为个人能力差，而是因为老板给的课题出不了能帮他们“成功”的文章。所以即使
在牛实验室，你还需要有好运气被分配一个好的课题。所以，总而言之，学术界尤其是
生物界，因为那个操蛋的体制的调制，个人的成功更多的是靠运气而不是能力。
【在 V******t 的大作中提到】
: 但是总有winner啊。那些winner是怎么做到的？
: 我觉得做学术，最重要的是眼光、洞察力和品位，知道什么问题重要、什么课题能出成
: 果，什么实验室能进、怎么做事情能直达目标；其次是坚持和勤奋；再次是好性格和灵
: 活变通，不钻牛角尖；最后是运气。
: 四点具备，就稳拿。差一条，就悲剧；差两条以上，就loser。
: 唉，太难了，太难了。
|
D****g
发帖数: 582 | 7 最重要的是眼光--已经选择生物了还谈何眼光，所以悲剧 |
V******t
发帖数: 444 | 8 zhang feng zhang yi这种算不算winner？
版上的sunny day 胖老师， bookmark 算不算winner？
发过CNS，并且工作确实有意义的，算不算winner？
【在 W***o 的大作中提到】
: winner? so biology is awesome? I don't get your logic
|
W***o
发帖数: 6519 | 9 they are all winners, so what? what's your point, make it straight.
【在 V******t 的大作中提到】
: zhang feng zhang yi这种算不算winner？
: 版上的sunny day 胖老师， bookmark 算不算winner？
: 发过CNS，并且工作确实有意义的，算不算winner？
|
V******t
发帖数: 444 | 10 对啊
怎么成为他们那样的稳拿
避免自己沦为谢博士那样的撸射
【在 W***o 的大作中提到】
: they are all winners, so what? what's your point, make it straight.
|
|
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 11 The point is that there are computer programer cannot find a job. There are
a lot people cannot find a job or not making enough money. It is not just
biology. It happens in all fields. Btw, I know big time engineers (VPs in
HP and Sharp) who got fired in their early 50s and can barely find a job.
Go do what you want and be satisfied with your life I think is more
important than complaining about your life.
【在 W***o 的大作中提到】
: they are all winners, so what? what's your point, make it straight.
|
W***o
发帖数: 6519 | 12 yes indeed, every field has jobless people or people who are underpaid.
Using the same example as you said - computer programmers, on the current
job market, the percentage of jobless programmers or underpaid programmers
is lower than biologists who have advanced degrees. Alas, every field has
winners - who are sitting at the top of the food chain. This is just an
absolute truth for food chains, either by dumb luck or competition or both,
the
existence of winners in a field don't really tell much about that field;
rather, the median or mean values of the field can tell you more.
In Bio field, winners can take almost all, leaving only a tiny fraction to
the so-called losers. In addition, the Bio field does not have much vertical
mobility, meaning that it's hard for bio people to escalate to the top (or
even middle) of the food chain. Is it right that only 10% of the Bio PhD
students can find
faculty positions or industry jobs eventually, while the rest of the
students have to find something alternative to make a living. This is simply
brutal and probably not sustainable or healthy.
are
just
in
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: The point is that there are computer programer cannot find a job. There are
: a lot people cannot find a job or not making enough money. It is not just
: biology. It happens in all fields. Btw, I know big time engineers (VPs in
: HP and Sharp) who got fired in their early 50s and can barely find a job.
: Go do what you want and be satisfied with your life I think is more
: important than complaining about your life.
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 13 Really, so all soft programers and engineers all became CEOs and managements
? Most American educated biologist are medical doctors or they change jobs
already. I don't know why you think there are less opportunity for people
for biomedical fields. We have a supply problem not a demand one.
Btw, I am all for people changing their careers. Do it early and do it
quickly.
,
【在 W***o 的大作中提到】
: yes indeed, every field has jobless people or people who are underpaid.
: Using the same example as you said - computer programmers, on the current
: job market, the percentage of jobless programmers or underpaid programmers
: is lower than biologists who have advanced degrees. Alas, every field has
: winners - who are sitting at the top of the food chain. This is just an
: absolute truth for food chains, either by dumb luck or competition or both,
: the
: existence of winners in a field don't really tell much about that field;
: rather, the median or mean values of the field can tell you more.
: In Bio field, winners can take almost all, leaving only a tiny fraction to
|
W***o
发帖数: 6519 | 14 Professor ArtyArty, first of all, I never used the word "all" on software
programmers or CEOs. Second of all, changing career was not my point either.
You are just shooting a wrong strawman here.
You need to show some evidences to back up your "supply problem" claim,
professor.
I am curious how you landed your faculty position in the first place. I have
zero interest of
arguing with bonehead people, it's going nowhere. Period.
managements
jobs
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: Really, so all soft programers and engineers all became CEOs and managements
: ? Most American educated biologist are medical doctors or they change jobs
: already. I don't know why you think there are less opportunity for people
: for biomedical fields. We have a supply problem not a demand one.
: Btw, I am all for people changing their careers. Do it early and do it
: quickly.
:
: ,
|
V******t
发帖数: 444 | 15 楼上两位偏题了…
讨论谢博士为何变成loser吧 |
x**********g
发帖数: 327 | 16 Very nicely organized arguments. Thank you. 感谢你出来帮助逻辑不好的同学。
,
【在 W***o 的大作中提到】
: yes indeed, every field has jobless people or people who are underpaid.
: Using the same example as you said - computer programmers, on the current
: job market, the percentage of jobless programmers or underpaid programmers
: is lower than biologists who have advanced degrees. Alas, every field has
: winners - who are sitting at the top of the food chain. This is just an
: absolute truth for food chains, either by dumb luck or competition or both,
: the
: existence of winners in a field don't really tell much about that field;
: rather, the median or mean values of the field can tell you more.
: In Bio field, winners can take almost all, leaving only a tiny fraction to
|
b*****s
发帖数: 169 | 17 赞FAQ和Wardo，说得太对了，为谢博士在视频中哭着问自己的问题给出了答案
【在 F*Q 的大作中提到】
: 一切行业中个人成功最具决定作用的体制，如果行业内有一个公平、公正的体制，那么
: 成功就在于个人。如果有一个操蛋的体制，个人的作用就会被极大地弱化。大家可能会
: 说，遵循体制也是个人能力的一个方面。这绝对没错，问题是如果那个体制太操蛋，比
: 如学术圈尤其是生物界的研究结果的发表权掌握在老板手里以及推荐信制度这两点。一
: 旦你的工作触及到老板的切身利益，你的学术前程就死翘翘！有些人可能还会强辩，选
: 择实验室的眼光也是个人能力的一个重要方面，也没错。但是学术界那么隐藏的骗子，
: 表面看来一切都很美好，一流学校的教授，时不时有顶级杂志CNS上发表的文章，而那
: 些造假的、诚实的错误、和不造假的一样都是文章。谁知道哪些是造假的、那些是诚实
: 的错误、哪些是货真价实的？所以，选实验室就存在很大的运气成份。最后，即使是“
: 好”的实验室，能够“成功的”的也只是少数，大多数只是分母而已。大多数分母并不
|
x**********g
发帖数: 327 | 18 原因只有一个， supply and demand, 剥削人的阶级无限的招人. 而且教授阶级几乎没
有 turnover 。
【在 b*****s 的大作中提到】
: 赞FAQ和Wardo，说得太对了，为谢博士在视频中哭着问自己的问题给出了答案
|
N******n
发帖数: 3003 | 19 楼上的arty的思维是典型的生物思维吧，看东西较真，只看到点，没有看到大局。
生物是坑，好像是共识吧。就比较mean 或者看看你周围的人就知道了。 做的AP，州立
大学工资就是6万-8万，每天还加班加点。
当然有人跟你说，winner does not necessarily count on money!
算我没有说。 |
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 20 Not arguing with you. Here is labor data, but you have to include health
profession into bio-related field because that's what American students get
into after their bachelor degree.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_stru.htm#19-0000
The problem with post-doc is because most them are foreigners and cannot
switch to a professional job easily. Most Americans do other bio-related
field and it is twice as big as entire computer industry.
Also, personal attack won't help you in any field, and good luck with your O
visa application.
either.
have
【在 W***o 的大作中提到】
: Professor ArtyArty, first of all, I never used the word "all" on software
: programmers or CEOs. Second of all, changing career was not my point either.
: You are just shooting a wrong strawman here.
: You need to show some evidences to back up your "supply problem" claim,
: professor.
: I am curious how you landed your faculty position in the first place. I have
: zero interest of
: arguing with bonehead people, it's going nowhere. Period.
:
: managements
|
|
|
W***o
发帖数: 6519 | 21 我可没骂你，你自己承认了我在骂你bonehead
get
O
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: Not arguing with you. Here is labor data, but you have to include health
: profession into bio-related field because that's what American students get
: into after their bachelor degree.
: http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_stru.htm#19-0000
: The problem with post-doc is because most them are foreigners and cannot
: switch to a professional job easily. Most Americans do other bio-related
: field and it is twice as big as entire computer industry.
: Also, personal attack won't help you in any field, and good luck with your O
: visa application.
:
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 22 I have no argument with people with @sshat logic either.
【在 W***o 的大作中提到】
: 我可没骂你，你自己承认了我在骂你bonehead
:
: get
: O
|
d******b
发帖数: 42 | 23 不能同意更多了。
的确每个行业都有winner，但是做出选择的时候可能更需要比较的是：
1）行业间比较各自average的人过得怎么样。
2）行业间比较各自的winner过得怎么样，以及winner占整个labor的百分比。
如果2）的回答是都差不多，那么就再比较：
3）各行业内想成为winner的难度。
,
【在 W***o 的大作中提到】
: yes indeed, every field has jobless people or people who are underpaid.
: Using the same example as you said - computer programmers, on the current
: job market, the percentage of jobless programmers or underpaid programmers
: is lower than biologists who have advanced degrees. Alas, every field has
: winners - who are sitting at the top of the food chain. This is just an
: absolute truth for food chains, either by dumb luck or competition or both,
: the
: existence of winners in a field don't really tell much about that field;
: rather, the median or mean values of the field can tell you more.
: In Bio field, winners can take almost all, leaving only a tiny fraction to
|
x****6
发帖数: 4339 | 24 非常认同。换一个角度，从商业模式的角度来看个学科状况，生物的困境也就不难理解
。当数学物理对应储蓄和股票，生物对应的是传销。这个贴子很精辟：http://bbs.gter.net/thread-1714456-1-1.html |
a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 25 啥都不要争，选准专业最重要。生物专业是坑人专业这一点毫无疑问。所以要做的就是
停止抱怨，立即着手准备转行。干任何一个行业也要比做生物赚钱多。 |
c********s
发帖数: 101 | 26 失眠，到这儿找小保方晴子最新八卦。无意间看见了这儿有架吵，随便说两句。
ArtyArty 可能是生物学术界走出来的成功人士吧，好象见不得人抱怨生物是烂坑。伤
感情了？还是怕招不到好学生了？Anyway，言论自由不是，你热爱生物研究也用不着对
乌秧乌秧的劝退大军着急上火。现在的年青人贼精了，自己会判断的。只是有一点我觉
得你做的不地道，大家在说一个中国的生物薄后，你扯什么包括美国本科硕士的就业数
据？为什么不举你身边的例子，你的几个博士薄后找到生物相关的好工作了？年入多少？
Enlighten us, please. |
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 27 Not really a successful person, just got lucky that I'm from an okay family,
lucky enough to be hired in my current position, and luck enough to get a
grant and survive. My parents actually questioned my decision asking me why
I want to do this because the pay is horrible.
First, I'm infamous at my school of talking people out of graduate school
during their interview processes or when they are trying to join my lab. As
for my students (please remember that I'm still a relatively new professor
and I have told all my students NOT to get a Ph.D. except my post-doc). I
had three undergraduate students, one in medical school, one in pharmacy
school, and one is in my school's Ph.D. program. I guess I don't have to
tell you guys how much the M.D. and Pharm.D. are going to make. Every time
I saw the Ph.D. student, I still jokes around telling him "I told you not to
pursuit a Ph.D. degree." I graduated one Ph.D. student (American), I don't
think he knows what he wants to do with his life even after his Ph.D. He
had offer from a Caribbean medical school (70k) to teach. However, he
decided to do a post-doc (well you know the pay). Currently, my only
student is a Pharm.D./Ph.D. student who already earned his Pharm.D. degree
at age of 23 (American; he has job offer for 125k+ but he doesn't want to do
it), I'm still trying to talk him out of getting his Ph.D. To quote him:
"My first name, you are not going to talk me out of the Ph.D. program).
Btw, I didn't recruit him, he was forced on to me by the department so the
department is paying for him.
So here comes my post-doc, he has only joined my lab for one and half year (
a methodology chemist from China). His highest impact publication is better
than mine (yes, he has JACS from China). I paid for his H1b visa and pay
him at NIH scale. I let him do what he wants and have various small
projects for him. He is developing methods for chemical identities related
to our research. He will be a corresponding author on his paper. I asked
him why he joined my lab when there are probably better position, he
literally told me that all other labs want him to bring his own money.
Since he read MITBBS, I think he really need to work on his English if he
wants to find a job in the US. If he is productive and I am successful in
my department, I believe I can even force my chair to give him a tenure
track position. Oh, I also have an American lab manager/technician (with BS
degree) who has been with me for 5 years receiving raise every year.
Btw, yes we are talking about 中国的生物薄后, but he is in the US. The jobs
are there, you just have to get them. If you are limited by your
immigration status, tough luck. If I want to be an @sshole American, I can
just tell you to go back to China and stop complaining. Why? Because part
of the over-supply is due to the crazy amounts of supply from oversea i.e.
China and India. That's why I said it is a supply problem. Do you know how
many letters I got when I was hiring my post-doc; hundreds? Btw, only two
American applicants and one has a criminal record.
少？
【在 c********s 的大作中提到】
: 失眠，到这儿找小保方晴子最新八卦。无意间看见了这儿有架吵，随便说两句。
: ArtyArty 可能是生物学术界走出来的成功人士吧，好象见不得人抱怨生物是烂坑。伤
: 感情了？还是怕招不到好学生了？Anyway，言论自由不是，你热爱生物研究也用不着对
: 乌秧乌秧的劝退大军着急上火。现在的年青人贼精了，自己会判断的。只是有一点我觉
: 得你做的不地道，大家在说一个中国的生物薄后，你扯什么包括美国本科硕士的就业数
: 据？为什么不举你身边的例子，你的几个博士薄后找到生物相关的好工作了？年入多少？
: Enlighten us, please.
|
s****i
发帖数: 5469 | 28 市场需要屠鸡屠猪屠牛的，她偏要去学个屠龙，偏偏学屠龙的运气成分还很大，得看大
自然脸色过日子。 |
s******5
发帖数: 293 | 29 很多人在扯淡。告诉你老板的作用，比如我们学校有个薄厚，被老板提拔后，和老板一
起申请RO1，中了。一共170万，老板分配给他一半。85万，他带到外单位了，做
Assistant Professor， 你没有这样的老板，不会成功。
还有一个得到K99,老板起很大的作用，这个Proposal基本是老板写的。
如果老板不帮助你，提拔你，你再努力也是白搭。你的方向不好，你一辈子也不会有
IF 10.0的文章，别说CNS
你没有好的老板，好的方向，不会成为 那个6% 的AP
决大多数老板怕你和他在同一领域抢饭碗，不会帮助你的。
你把那些成为AP的称为winner, 只有 6%, 94%的人要么改专业，要么去公司，医院，去
Teaching School，或者在实验室做技术员等。
【在 V******t 的大作中提到】
: 对啊
: 怎么成为他们那样的稳拿
: 避免自己沦为谢博士那样的撸射
|
i***l
发帖数: 1656 | 30 是的 整个美国gov的数据里 拿工资的科学家占所有Bio学位总人数的多少？有多少是BS
MS level？（却拿高于博士后工资)
更重要的是，时代不同了， 这里每年新人找到真正工作的有多少？
大家都不傻，别把人都当傻子
少？
【在 c********s 的大作中提到】
: 失眠，到这儿找小保方晴子最新八卦。无意间看见了这儿有架吵，随便说两句。
: ArtyArty 可能是生物学术界走出来的成功人士吧，好象见不得人抱怨生物是烂坑。伤
: 感情了？还是怕招不到好学生了？Anyway，言论自由不是，你热爱生物研究也用不着对
: 乌秧乌秧的劝退大军着急上火。现在的年青人贼精了，自己会判断的。只是有一点我觉
: 得你做的不地道，大家在说一个中国的生物薄后，你扯什么包括美国本科硕士的就业数
: 据？为什么不举你身边的例子，你的几个博士薄后找到生物相关的好工作了？年入多少？
: Enlighten us, please.
|
|
|
K******S
发帖数: 10109 | 31 这片子有念头了，主人公不是早就海归了吗？
【在 V******t 的大作中提到】
: http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/fddL3RjWOVg/
: 太惨了。主人公都哭了。
: 主人公，生物博后谢颖秋为什么变成了一个loser？
: 是性格原因？性格懦弱，不敢拼搏？
: 是运气不好？
: 是能力不够？科研的洞察力不够，视野狭窄，不知道什么是好的科学，什么是重要的问
: 题。选择一个小题目，勤奋地做，却越做越错？
: 还是不够勤奋？
: 还是 。。。
: 到底为什么啊，看视频，他也蛮自律的，很勤奋。主动教美国小孩中午，锻炼英语；坚
|
d*******e
发帖数: 1649 | 32 又回美继续做博士后了，orz
【在 K******S 的大作中提到】
: 这片子有念头了，主人公不是早就海归了吗？
|
r******8
发帖数: 1486 | 33 那买彩票还有winner呢。
还有就是你这四条完全反了吧。
【在 V******t 的大作中提到】
: 但是总有winner啊。那些winner是怎么做到的？
: 我觉得做学术，最重要的是眼光、洞察力和品位，知道什么问题重要、什么课题能出成
: 果，什么实验室能进、怎么做事情能直达目标；其次是坚持和勤奋；再次是好性格和灵
: 活变通，不钻牛角尖；最后是运气。
: 四点具备，就稳拿。差一条，就悲剧；差两条以上，就loser。
: 唉，太难了，太难了。
|
r******8
发帖数: 1486 | 34 什么啊，我们楼里面的扫楼大妈，连BS都没有，照样比博士后工资高，还有benefits.
BS
【在 i***l 的大作中提到】
: 是的 整个美国gov的数据里 拿工资的科学家占所有Bio学位总人数的多少？有多少是BS
: MS level？（却拿高于博士后工资)
: 更重要的是，时代不同了， 这里每年新人找到真正工作的有多少？
: 大家都不傻，别把人都当傻子
:
: 少？
|
r******8
发帖数: 1486 | 35 多谢分享，我把这个视频给我妈看了，她马上就特别理解我了，坚决要我转行。
【在 V******t 的大作中提到】
: http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/fddL3RjWOVg/
: 太惨了。主人公都哭了。
: 主人公，生物博后谢颖秋为什么变成了一个loser？
: 是性格原因？性格懦弱，不敢拼搏？
: 是运气不好？
: 是能力不够？科研的洞察力不够，视野狭窄，不知道什么是好的科学，什么是重要的问
: 题。选择一个小题目，勤奋地做，却越做越错？
: 还是不够勤奋？
: 还是 。。。
: 到底为什么啊，看视频，他也蛮自律的，很勤奋。主动教美国小孩中午，锻炼英语；坚
|
K******S
发帖数: 10109 | 36 really?
that's messed up then.
【在 d*******e 的大作中提到】
: 又回美继续做博士后了，orz
|
s******5
发帖数: 293 | 37 生活中，不要把大多数人说成Loser。 你这个说法很不正确。
现在在美国，每年20万中国学生毕业，只有1万H1Bｖｉｓａ， 1万Ｊ１ ｖｉｓａ,
少数Ｏ１.Ｌ１Ｖｉｓａ
那么大多数人只能回去，这是正常的。
在美国的中国生物薄厚，大部分改专业了，从事统计，ＩＴ, 会计，护士，医疗技术
员，医生，医生助理，房地产经纪人。不改的有的去公司，医院，去Ｃｏｒｅ Ｆａｃ
ｉｌｉｔｙ做技术员，去Ｔｅａｃｈｉｎｇ Ｓｃｈｏｏｌ
有的因为家庭原因，回国去了。你不能说他在美国混不下去，所以海龟了。
一个人只要自己无愧，就可以了。
不做独立的ＰＩ,没有发表ＣＮＳ文章的人是正常的，是人生的常态。绝不应该把大多
数人说成失败者。别人的人生道路不要过渡关注，关注自己就行。地球上有７５亿人，
你同别人比，关注别人，你关注的过来吗？
所以不要发这种无聊的帖子，提出无聊的，幼稚可笑的问题。在生活中，把握好自己的
人生就行了。
【在 V******t 的大作中提到】
: 大家说说啊。
: 到底为什么。怎么才能避免自己也变成这样的loser
|
w**********e
发帖数: 557 | 38 不能同意更多。一些人浮得很，恨人有，笑人无
【在 s******5 的大作中提到】
: 生活中，不要把大多数人说成Loser。 你这个说法很不正确。
: 现在在美国，每年20万中国学生毕业，只有1万H1Bｖｉｓａ， 1万Ｊ１ ｖｉｓａ,
: 少数Ｏ１.Ｌ１Ｖｉｓａ
: 那么大多数人只能回去，这是正常的。
: 在美国的中国生物薄厚，大部分改专业了，从事统计，ＩＴ, 会计，护士，医疗技术
: 员，医生，医生助理，房地产经纪人。不改的有的去公司，医院，去Ｃｏｒｅ Ｆａｃ
: ｉｌｉｔｙ做技术员，去Ｔｅａｃｈｉｎｇ Ｓｃｈｏｏｌ
: 有的因为家庭原因，回国去了。你不能说他在美国混不下去，所以海龟了。
: 一个人只要自己无愧，就可以了。
: 不做独立的ＰＩ,没有发表ＣＮＳ文章的人是正常的，是人生的常态。绝不应该把大多
|
s*********y
发帖数: 292 | 39 赞同
【在 s******5 的大作中提到】
: 生活中，不要把大多数人说成Loser。 你这个说法很不正确。
: 现在在美国，每年20万中国学生毕业，只有1万H1Bｖｉｓａ， 1万Ｊ１ ｖｉｓａ,
: 少数Ｏ１.Ｌ１Ｖｉｓａ
: 那么大多数人只能回去，这是正常的。
: 在美国的中国生物薄厚，大部分改专业了，从事统计，ＩＴ, 会计，护士，医疗技术
: 员，医生，医生助理，房地产经纪人。不改的有的去公司，医院，去Ｃｏｒｅ Ｆａｃ
: ｉｌｉｔｙ做技术员，去Ｔｅａｃｈｉｎｇ Ｓｃｈｏｏｌ
: 有的因为家庭原因，回国去了。你不能说他在美国混不下去，所以海龟了。
: 一个人只要自己无愧，就可以了。
: 不做独立的ＰＩ,没有发表ＣＮＳ文章的人是正常的，是人生的常态。绝不应该把大多
|
s******5
发帖数: 293 | 40 现在每年60万国人来美国学习，进修，工作。20万中国学生毕业，只有１万H1Bｖｉｓ
ａ,１万Ｊ１
ｖｉｓａ，少数O1. L1 visa，所以大部分人留不下来。这是常态。
国人每年有７万拿到绿卡（包括家属）。
每年的EB1,EB2,EB3绿卡全部加在一起，不足1万人。还有3万政治避难，难民绿卡，2-3
万亲属移民绿卡，6000-8000投资移民绿卡。
中国人能做PI的很少，这是事实。其实我们第一代移民能在美国混口饭吃，能拿到绿卡
，能顺利把孩子培养大，已经很不容易了。我们不必要每个人向Ｓｕｎｎｄａｙ，王晓
东，施一公看齐，只要无愧人生就行了。
正确对待生活，对待人生，学会尊重每个人，包括不能留学美国的，包括回到国内的，
从事各种不同职业的，生活困难的。毕竟地球上有７５亿人。
做一个正直的人，不要嘲笑任何同行，长辈，走好自己的人生路。
【在 w**********e 的大作中提到】
: 不能同意更多。一些人浮得很，恨人有，笑人无
|
|
|
c********s
发帖数: 101 | 41 只顾着和人争辩，自觉不自觉之间忽略了楼主明显不合适的措辞。虽然我不是楼主，还
是要说一声受教了。等我和人再争辩最后一次，然后就向你的境界看齐。
【在 s******5 的大作中提到】
: 生活中，不要把大多数人说成Loser。 你这个说法很不正确。
: 现在在美国，每年20万中国学生毕业，只有1万H1Bｖｉｓａ， 1万Ｊ１ ｖｉｓａ,
: 少数Ｏ１.Ｌ１Ｖｉｓａ
: 那么大多数人只能回去，这是正常的。
: 在美国的中国生物薄厚，大部分改专业了，从事统计，ＩＴ, 会计，护士，医疗技术
: 员，医生，医生助理，房地产经纪人。不改的有的去公司，医院，去Ｃｏｒｅ Ｆａｃ
: ｉｌｉｔｙ做技术员，去Ｔｅａｃｈｉｎｇ Ｓｃｈｏｏｌ
: 有的因为家庭原因，回国去了。你不能说他在美国混不下去，所以海龟了。
: 一个人只要自己无愧，就可以了。
: 不做独立的ＰＩ,没有发表ＣＮＳ文章的人是正常的，是人生的常态。绝不应该把大多
|
c********s
发帖数: 101 | 42 I actually don't have much to argue with you. I agree 100% about what you
said about "Do it early and do it quickly","Go do what you want and be
satisfied with your life I think is more important than complaining about
your life".
And I understand why you got upset earlier with others. You are minding you
own business and there are always some people, like me, keep saying your
study filed sucks, that is very annoying. I admire that you can stick with
your career choice and made certain achievements. And I think it's a noble
act to talk someone not suitable for research work out of the PHD program.
Also it sounds like you did not exploit Chinese biology students for cheap
labor. Hats off to that. Anyway, out of respect, and considering this site
is for bio study, plus, there are other site for "changing career from
biology", I will restrain myself from saying negative comments about bio
study on this site ever again.
Still, I'd like to politely point out that most of your examples do not
support your argument. At first, your statistics is not comparable to the
situation most Chinese students are in. Then when you provide your own
examples, they are actually contradictory to the point you want to establish
. You keep mentioning medical school and Pharmacy school students, but their
situation is not related to the original question "why this Chinese bio
post-doc has a very difficult time", same as the lab technician. And your
Chinese post-doc is from another field and has achieved quite a lot before
studies with you. That actually demonstrated how hard pursuing a career in
bio field is. Towards the end of your post, when you mentioned there are
hundreds of Chinese/Indian applicants, but only two Americans, you are
literally attacking your own opinion. Unless you are implying most Americans
are stupid, and they are ignoring an obvious easy career path.
The example you mentioned about middle age big time engineers getting fired
and cannot find a job? It's really laughable. If they did not live beyond
their means, they can already enjoy their retirement by that time. Imagine a
middle age bio post-doc getting fired?
I can feel your passion to defend your beloved research field (I admire that
, truly), but "关心则乱", I think that's why your logic failed you.
I will follow news of 小保方晴子 somewhere else. This discussion is too
depressing for an outsider like me... Good luck with you research.
family,
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: Not really a successful person, just got lucky that I'm from an okay family,
: lucky enough to be hired in my current position, and luck enough to get a
: grant and survive. My parents actually questioned my decision asking me why
: I want to do this because the pay is horrible.
: First, I'm infamous at my school of talking people out of graduate school
: during their interview processes or when they are trying to join my lab. As
: for my students (please remember that I'm still a relatively new professor
: and I have told all my students NOT to get a Ph.D. except my post-doc). I
: had three undergraduate students, one in medical school, one in pharmacy
: school, and one is in my school's Ph.D. program. I guess I don't have to
|
h*****b
发帖数: 492 | 43 wardo 把申请O1 visa时候的文笔发挥的淋漓尽致啊 赞。。。。
either.
have
【在 W***o 的大作中提到】
: Professor ArtyArty, first of all, I never used the word "all" on software
: programmers or CEOs. Second of all, changing career was not my point either.
: You are just shooting a wrong strawman here.
: You need to show some evidences to back up your "supply problem" claim,
: professor.
: I am curious how you landed your faculty position in the first place. I have
: zero interest of
: arguing with bonehead people, it's going nowhere. Period.
:
: managements
|
