s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 Joke 讨论区 】
发信人: mccoy (小强->大强->老强->强(jiang4)老), 信区: Joke
标 题: 福兮？祸兮？千老必看
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed May 25 12:57:34 2016, 美东)
千老算non-exempt的，还有最低工资
Fair Pay for Postdocs: Why We Support New Federal Overtime Rules
Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D.
Director, National Institutes of Health (NIH)
Thomas E. Perez
U.S. Secretary of Labor
The Department of Labor’s recently announced revisions to the Fair Labor
Standards Act (FLSA) will make more than 4 million currently exempt U.S.
workers eligible for overtime pay, unless their salaries are raised. Among
them are an estimated 37,000 to 40,000 junior scientists who have emerged as
critical players in modern biomedical research. There has been considerable
concern in both the public and private sectors about how this change will
affect the United States’ ability to carry out leading edge research in an
efficient, cost-effective manner. But as leaders of the nation’s biomedical
research and labor agencies, we are confident the transition can be made in
a way that does not harm — and actually serves to enrich — the future of
our research enterprise.
Commonly called postdoctoral researchers, or “postdocs,” these junior
scientists have recently received a doctoral degree (typically a Ph.D.) and
successfully defended a research thesis grounded in extensive training in
biochemistry, genomics, computer science, or another area of science.
However, these individuals are not yet at the point where they can set up
their own laboratories and become independent researchers. Consequently,
many embark upon a postdoctoral fellowship in a more senior scientist’s lab
to gain a few years of additional training and experience. The average
annual pay for a postdoc is currently estimated to be about $45,000, but
this varies greatly by region and funding source.
Current law entitles all workers in the United States to overtime pay,
unless they are exempted because they are paid on fixed, preset salaries;
are engaged in executive, administrative, or professional duties; and are
paid at least $23,660 per year. The figure of $23,660 was set in 2004 and
has not kept up with inflation. Under the new rule, which was informed by
270,000 public comments, the threshold will be increased to $47,476
effective December 1, 2016.
Many biomedical postdocs are supported by the National Institutes of Health
(NIH), either through specific grants, known as Ruth L. Kirschstein National
Research Service Awards (NRSA), or through standard research grants awarded
to their laboratory chief, typically known as a Principal Investigator.
Despite the postdocs’ extensive training, expertise, and high level of
responsibility, many experts believe their starting salaries are too low.
For example, in the first three years after receiving their degree, NRSA
awardees currently receive awards of $43,692; $45,444; and $47,268 — all
below the newly issued overtime threshold.
Under the new FLSA overtime threshold, universities, teaching hospitals, and
other institutions that employ postdocs have a choice: they can carefully
track their fellows’ hours and pay overtime, or they can raise their
salaries to levels above the threshold and thereby qualify them for
exemption. Biomedical science, by its very nature, is not work that neatly
falls into hourly units or shifts. So, from our vantage point, it seems that
the only option consistent with the professional nature of scientific work
is to increase salaries above the threshold.
We are fully supportive of the increased salary threshold for postdocs.
Indeed, the NIH has been increasing those salaries gradually over the last
several years, even in the face of challenging budget circumstances. But we
acknowledge that more is needed, and we agree with a number of leaders in
biomedical science who have bemoaned the current state of affairs, arguing
that postdoctoral fellows are generally paid salaries that do not adequately
reflect their advanced education and expertise. Some experts have even
explicitly called for starting pay for biomedical postdocs to rise to at
least $50,000 annually.
In response to the proposed FLSA revisions, NIH will increase the awards for
postdoctoral NRSA recipients to levels above the threshold. At the same
time, we recognize that research institutions that employ postdocs will need
to readjust the salaries they pay to postdocs that are supported through
other means, including other types of NIH research grants. While supporting
the increased salaries will no doubt present financial challenges to NIH and
the rest of the U.S. biomedical research enterprise, we plan to work
closely with leaders in the postdoc and research communities to find
creative solutions to ensure a smooth transition.
Our nation should embrace the fact that increasing the salary threshold for
postdocs represents an opportunity to encourage more of our brightest young
minds to consider choosing careers in science. Biomedical science has never
been more exciting or promising than now, and we need to do all we can to
support the next generation of scientists. | x*******o
发帖数: 2581 | | x*******5
发帖数: 1335 | 3 那生物千老没事加班，用不了几天PI就破产了
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Joke 讨论区 】
: 发信人: mccoy (小强->大强->老强->强(jiang4)老), 信区: Joke
: 标 题: 福兮？祸兮？千老必看
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed May 25 12:57:34 2016, 美东)
: 千老算non-exempt的，还有最低工资
: Fair Pay for Postdocs: Why We Support New Federal Overtime Rules
: Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D.
: Director, National Institutes of Health (NIH)
: Thomas E. Perez
: U.S. Secretary of Labor
| r***e
发帖数: 10135 | 4 国内一堆自带干粮的交换生还等着来呢。。。
【在 x*******5 的大作中提到】
: 那生物千老没事加班，用不了几天PI就破产了
| T*****e
发帖数: 247 | 5 这篇文章说得还不够清楚吗？
1. 生物医学研究的特点使得追踪具体的工作时间不可行
2. 于是推导出如果想要符合新法案的要求，就要把最低工资涨上去
3. 本来大家也都明白到了postdoc这个水平，现行的工资根本不足以反映其所受到的教
育、训练以及责任心
4. 虽然那个不付加班工资的最低工资线多少年没涨，NIH的指导线是涨的，只不过没有
完全跟上
所以结论就是NIH支持涨最低工资。我不是PI，所以我说句不痛不痒的话：
除了特别有钱的实验室，每个人涨点工资可能会导致少招一个人，普通小型实验室多涨
的那点钱最后还不是从NIH或者别的funding agency来？你做报账的时候直接改数字不
就完了。
真正的影响是funding agency能做的蛋糕数量少了。说实话，我不觉得这是坏事。前几
年就有人说了，与其大家都饿着，不如饿死一些老的，掐死一些新的，然后让剩下的一
些人体面的活下去。从长远看，不是坏事。 | b******h
发帖数: 2732 | 6 饿死一些老的？
你确信那些学霸实验室会饿死？
【在 T*****e 的大作中提到】
: 这篇文章说得还不够清楚吗？
: 1. 生物医学研究的特点使得追踪具体的工作时间不可行
: 2. 于是推导出如果想要符合新法案的要求，就要把最低工资涨上去
: 3. 本来大家也都明白到了postdoc这个水平，现行的工资根本不足以反映其所受到的教
: 育、训练以及责任心
: 4. 虽然那个不付加班工资的最低工资线多少年没涨，NIH的指导线是涨的，只不过没有
: 完全跟上
: 所以结论就是NIH支持涨最低工资。我不是PI，所以我说句不痛不痒的话：
: 除了特别有钱的实验室，每个人涨点工资可能会导致少招一个人，普通小型实验室多涨
: 的那点钱最后还不是从NIH或者别的funding agency来？你做报账的时候直接改数字不
| x*******5
发帖数: 1335 | 7 通常就是富的越富，其他的.....
【在 b******h 的大作中提到】
: 饿死一些老的？
: 你确信那些学霸实验室会饿死？
| T*****e
发帖数: 247 | 8 下面说的别人可能不高兴，我也没办法。
我说的不是学霸实验室饿死，而是不符合各种postdoc fellowship的工作超过一些年限
的人赶紧转成更稳定的title，而不是在市场上跟junior scientist一起耗着。
这是老生常谈的问题了。因为前面的人都没有希望，所以后面的人更没有希望。这个新
规定出来之后，希望直接的或者间接的推动一些对整个系统的改革。
胖老师在学术版说得一点是对的。NIH既然站出来支持，就要扛起责任，而不是不痛不
痒的支持一下，然后等着下面人自己去解决。 | l***9
发帖数: 360 | 9 系统是该改革了。要不增加budget 总数，就只有少招新faculty，少招新学生。
【在 T*****e 的大作中提到】
: 下面说的别人可能不高兴，我也没办法。
: 我说的不是学霸实验室饿死，而是不符合各种postdoc fellowship的工作超过一些年限
: 的人赶紧转成更稳定的title，而不是在市场上跟junior scientist一起耗着。
: 这是老生常谈的问题了。因为前面的人都没有希望，所以后面的人更没有希望。这个新
: 规定出来之后，希望直接的或者间接的推动一些对整个系统的改革。
: 胖老师在学术版说得一点是对的。NIH既然站出来支持，就要扛起责任，而不是不痛不
: 痒的支持一下，然后等着下面人自己去解决。
| T*****e
发帖数: 247 | 10 脑洞开一下：
现在这个系统最主要的问题是什么？
对学生来说，入门容易，但训练时间无限延长，越到后期竞越激烈，最后出路不好，或
者根本没有出路。要不在市场上耗着，要不转行。幸运的只是极少数人。
对PI来说，funding rate太低，大量时间花在找钱上，手下的每个人都必须出活，否则
轻则浪费实验室有限的资源，重则影响整个实验室的存活。
现在提高最低工资，直接影响PI如果能拿到钱，那么钱会略微增多，但是在NIH总的资
金不变的前提下，拿钱的概率可能会进一步下降。
NIH的对策要不就是听之任之，让申请funding变得更激烈，要么就是提高budget（看国
会），要么就是改变现行制度。
总之在蛋糕总量不变的前提下，postdoc这个level的人数大概要减少。
这也许是有好处的：
1. 一些人离开了
2. 因为竞争激烈，新进入这个圈子的人会减少
3. 涨了点工资，苍蝇肉也是肉
更理想的情况应该是系统性的改革，正视这个无限延长的training过程，而不是在现在
这个局面下继续耗着。 | b********e
发帖数: 470 | 11 我们学校已经决定所有博后最低工资一律涨到最低工资。对于我们这些每天精打细算的
小庙，能做的就是裁员或者把学生赶去做TA.不管哪种方法，都会减慢研究进度。这下
压力更大了。
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Joke 讨论区 】
: 发信人: mccoy (小强->大强->老强->强(jiang4)老), 信区: Joke
: 标 题: 福兮？祸兮？千老必看
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed May 25 12:57:34 2016, 美东)
: 千老算non-exempt的，还有最低工资
: Fair Pay for Postdocs: Why We Support New Federal Overtime Rules
: Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D.
: Director, National Institutes of Health (NIH)
: Thomas E. Perez
: U.S. Secretary of Labor
| z***8
发帖数: 2 | 12
这是件好事，postdoc 作为科研主力之一，应当涨工资。真希望我两个月前就知道这事
...
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Joke 讨论区 】
: 发信人: mccoy (小强->大强->老强->强(jiang4)老), 信区: Joke
: 标 题: 福兮？祸兮？千老必看
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed May 25 12:57:34 2016, 美东)
: 千老算non-exempt的，还有最低工资
: Fair Pay for Postdocs: Why We Support New Federal Overtime Rules
: Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D.
: Director, National Institutes of Health (NIH)
: Thomas E. Perez
: U.S. Secretary of Labor
| l***y
发帖数: 4671 | 13 民主党的做派啊：工资要涨，钱从哪里来就不管了。
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Joke 讨论区 】
: 发信人: mccoy (小强->大强->老强->强(jiang4)老), 信区: Joke
: 标 题: 福兮？祸兮？千老必看
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed May 25 12:57:34 2016, 美东)
: 千老算non-exempt的，还有最低工资
: Fair Pay for Postdocs: Why We Support New Federal Overtime Rules
: Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D.
: Director, National Institutes of Health (NIH)
: Thomas E. Perez
: U.S. Secretary of Labor
|
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