m*********s
发帖数: 590 | 1 没有要花钱看病的地方，个人感觉放着有点浪费，想听听大家的意见
谢谢 |
b*******c
发帖数: 20683 | 2 对
【在 m*********s 的大作中提到】
: 没有要花钱看病的地方，个人感觉放着有点浪费，想听听大家的意见
: 谢谢
|
r****m
发帖数: 1204 | 3 The best practice is to always invest the HSA money for the long term and
use it when you retire, even you can use the HSA funds now, because if you
spend the HSA funds now, you lose the tax benefits with it. |
m*********s
发帖数: 590 | |
j*p
发帖数: 780 | 5 如果现在有医疗花费，也不用HSA来cover；那以后还能报现在的花费而没有任何问题？
不明白这样做Tax有什么benefit？
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
【在 r****m 的大作中提到】
: The best practice is to always invest the HSA money for the long term and
: use it when you retire, even you can use the HSA funds now, because if you
: spend the HSA funds now, you lose the tax benefits with it.
|
m*********s
发帖数: 590 | 6 同问
【在 j*p 的大作中提到】
: 如果现在有医疗花费，也不用HSA来cover；那以后还能报现在的花费而没有任何问题？
: 不明白这样做Tax有什么benefit？
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
|
w**t
发帖数: 1890 | 7 在没有工作时或者退休时就没有cover，hsa就能派上用场，或者用hsa当一般银行卡用
也行，只要年底把税补回来
【在 j*p 的大作中提到】
: 如果现在有医疗花费，也不用HSA来cover；那以后还能报现在的花费而没有任何问题？
: 不明白这样做Tax有什么benefit？
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
|
S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 8 Equivalent to moving taxable asset to tax-free asset.
【在 j*p 的大作中提到】
: 如果现在有医疗花费，也不用HSA来cover；那以后还能报现在的花费而没有任何问题？
: 不明白这样做Tax有什么benefit？
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
|
b*******c
发帖数: 20683 | 9 “那以后还能报现在的花费而没有任何问题？”
- 没说以后还报现在的花费吧。
【在 j*p 的大作中提到】
: 如果现在有医疗花费，也不用HSA来cover；那以后还能报现在的花费而没有任何问题？
: 不明白这样做Tax有什么benefit？
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
|
S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 10 Keep your receipt, as long as the expense is after your hsa contribution.
[在 babymagic (我心依旧) 的大作中提到：]
：“那以后还能报现在的花费而没有任何问题？”
：
：........... |
|
|
j*p
发帖数: 780 | 11 如果不用HSA cover，那么现在的high deductible就要自己额外负担。这样真好吗？我
们有HMO和HDHP，我打算加入HDHP。
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
【在 S**C 的大作中提到】
: Equivalent to moving taxable asset to tax-free asset.
|
j*p
发帖数: 780 | 12 我们现在是有医疗花费就从HSA报销，有人却是不报，让HSA继续投资运行。
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
【在 b*******c 的大作中提到】
: “那以后还能报现在的花费而没有任何问题？”
: - 没说以后还报现在的花费吧。
|
b*******c
发帖数: 20683 | 13 其实我家也报的。我家每年医疗花费反正不多，大部分还是可以留在里面投资的。
【在 j*p 的大作中提到】
: 我们现在是有医疗花费就从HSA报销，有人却是不报，让HSA继续投资运行。
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
|
S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 14 If you have enough taxable dollar to cover it, then why not? By doing that,
you essentially move money from your taxable account to your tax-free
account. Just keep your receipt, you will need them in the future.
【在 j*p 的大作中提到】
: 如果不用HSA cover，那么现在的high deductible就要自己额外负担。这样真好吗？我
: 们有HMO和HDHP，我打算加入HDHP。
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.2
|
s*********t
发帖数: 5781 | 15 请问一下那个要怎么报啊？
【在 b*******c 的大作中提到】
: 其实我家也报的。我家每年医疗花费反正不多，大部分还是可以留在里面投资的。
|
b*******c
发帖数: 20683 | 16 我是直接刷卡啊，有和HSA相连的debit卡。没卡的话，报销应该也和FSA之类的报销程
序类似吧。
【在 s*********t 的大作中提到】
: 请问一下那个要怎么报啊？
|
s**********d
发帖数: 36899 | 17 一般log in到你的HSA里面有怎么做。
【在 s*********t 的大作中提到】
: 请问一下那个要怎么报啊？
|
s**********d
发帖数: 36899 | 18 浪费了自己卡2%回扣。
【在 b*******c 的大作中提到】
: 我是直接刷卡啊，有和HSA相连的debit卡。没卡的话，报销应该也和FSA之类的报销程
: 序类似吧。
|
b*******c
发帖数: 20683 | 19 1千刀，2%也就20刀...有时候也要图方便啊
【在 s**********d 的大作中提到】
: 浪费了自己卡2%回扣。
|
c*****z
发帖数: 1211 | 20 是说我HDHP了，HSA有钱，但是看病自付部分还是用自己的钱而不是HSA。这样年底税收
有优惠吗？是不是看病这部分钱就不用交税了？ |
|
|
S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 21 Firstly your medical expense need to be x% of your MAGI to be able to
claimed. Secondly I never met a situation that allows you to double dip, so
if you claim medical expense for that year, later on you may not be able to
use HSA on that expense again. |
w**k
发帖数: 6722 | 22 我对HSA的理解
这个钱从税前（还是税后？）工资里扣出来专门当作医疗费用。通常有HSA就没有FSA，
也有都有的，那么FSA可以报的东西就很少，大部分要走HSA。这里只说只有HSA的情况
。看病之类的费用，你可以立马就从HSA里面拿回来，也可以不拿回来，让钱在HSA里面
增长。等若干年之后老了，总是会有用得着的时候，毕竟老了总是会生病的 --- 不知
道到死都没用完的情况会怎么处理。因为这个增长是不交税的，那么如果手里不缺钱用
，那就让它免税增长吧。我刚开始有HSA的时候，还报了几次账单把钱拿回来，后来忽
然想通了，就放满额度而且一分钱都不取出来让它慢慢增值就是了。不过HSA户头是有
管理费的，而且可能在离开公司之后的管理费还要高一些。一般可以转到新公司的HSA
，如果新公司有HSA的话。好像前几天看到本版有人给了个HSA开户的网址，我没研究过
。 |
w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 23 I still don't quite see the benefit here. What did I miss?
Option 1:
If you pay the bill from HSA now, you immediately lock in the tax benefit of
that amount. No uncertainty here, plain and simple.
Option 2:
If you pay the bill out of pocket, you'll realize the tax benefit years
later, assuming 1) you hold on to the receipts, 2) the tax laws don't change
regarding HSA, and 3) you don't end up using some of that money on non-
medical expenses and taxed as income in your retirement.
You may be able to let the HSA money from Option 2 grow tax free. However,
if you instead invest the upfront tax saving from Option 1 into a taxable
account (assuming all the other tax shelters have been maxed out), the money
still grows and you get more and better fund choices that charge you less,
without all those uncertainties.
Why is Option 2 considered superior?
,
【在 S**C 的大作中提到】
: If you have enough taxable dollar to cover it, then why not? By doing that,
: you essentially move money from your taxable account to your tax-free
: account. Just keep your receipt, you will need them in the future.
|
s*****e
发帖数: 3954 | 24 用HSA投资的钱，收益只要是用在medical care上就不收税，这是主要区别吧。。
of
change
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: I still don't quite see the benefit here. What did I miss?
: Option 1:
: If you pay the bill from HSA now, you immediately lock in the tax benefit of
: that amount. No uncertainty here, plain and simple.
: Option 2:
: If you pay the bill out of pocket, you'll realize the tax benefit years
: later, assuming 1) you hold on to the receipts, 2) the tax laws don't change
: regarding HSA, and 3) you don't end up using some of that money on non-
: medical expenses and taxed as income in your retirement.
: You may be able to let the HSA money from Option 2 grow tax free. However,
|
s*****e
发帖数: 3954 | 25 我就关心一个，现在的bill不报HSA，几年以后也还是可以报HSA？？ |
S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 26 "if you instead invest the upfront tax saving from Option 1 into a taxable
account"
Well there is no tax saving from option 1. You already saved tax when you
contribute to HSA, you did not save tax when you pay your bill from HSA
account. You save potential tax when you pay your bill from taxable account
since your taxable account will be smaller, thus the gain will be smaller,
all things being equal, and the tax bill will be smaller.
Certainly, if you are forced to sell in taxable account and take capital
gain thus pay tax bill now, that could be a little different. But more
likely, you pay from your cash account.
of
change
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: I still don't quite see the benefit here. What did I miss?
: Option 1:
: If you pay the bill from HSA now, you immediately lock in the tax benefit of
: that amount. No uncertainty here, plain and simple.
: Option 2:
: If you pay the bill out of pocket, you'll realize the tax benefit years
: later, assuming 1) you hold on to the receipts, 2) the tax laws don't change
: regarding HSA, and 3) you don't end up using some of that money on non-
: medical expenses and taxed as income in your retirement.
: You may be able to let the HSA money from Option 2 grow tax free. However,
|
s**********d
发帖数: 36899 | 27 可以。比如今年你花了一千块。你可以现在报，也可以不报，留一千块在HSA里投资，
等二十年过去这一千变成一万了拿一千出来报这二十年前的一千，还剩九千吃喝玩乐。
【在 s*****e 的大作中提到】
: 我就关心一个，现在的bill不报HSA，几年以后也还是可以报HSA？？
|
w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 28 In option 1, the tax is saved when I contribute the money. By paying the
bill from HSA now, I make sure the tax saving is indeed realized, without
the possibility that the HSA eventually ended up only as a tax deferred
account during retirement if I'm quite healthy or if tax rules change.
Eventually paying income tax for HSA is a risk I see.
For a savvy investor who knows taking advantage of the possibly tax free
growth in HSA, even he/she pays the bill from a cash account I would say we
should consider the lost opportunity of taxable growth for that amount of
money. So the more fair comparison I think would be comparing:
Taxable growth with low cost index fund investing
vs.
Tax-free (or in the worse case tax deferred) growth with relatively worse
funds charging higher ER.
account
【在 S**C 的大作中提到】
: "if you instead invest the upfront tax saving from Option 1 into a taxable
: account"
: Well there is no tax saving from option 1. You already saved tax when you
: contribute to HSA, you did not save tax when you pay your bill from HSA
: account. You save potential tax when you pay your bill from taxable account
: since your taxable account will be smaller, thus the gain will be smaller,
: all things being equal, and the tax bill will be smaller.
: Certainly, if you are forced to sell in taxable account and take capital
: gain thus pay tax bill now, that could be a little different. But more
: likely, you pay from your cash account.
|
w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 29 你如果能让hsa的一千涨到一万，现在不报销，自己掏的这一千如果投资了能涨到多少？
【在 s**********d 的大作中提到】
: 可以。比如今年你花了一千块。你可以现在报，也可以不报，留一千块在HSA里投资，
: 等二十年过去这一千变成一万了拿一千出来报这二十年前的一千，还剩九千吃喝玩乐。
|
s**********d
发帖数: 36899 | 30 不知道，估计忍不住买了没用的东西浪费掉了。即使不浪费去投资，基本上我不可能在
收税账号里能炒过HSA里面免税涨。
少？
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: 你如果能让hsa的一千涨到一万，现在不报销，自己掏的这一千如果投资了能涨到多少？
|
|
|
w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 31 浪费的话hsa以后老了再浪费也是可能的，但是乐趣少了不少，而且就要交收入税，而
不再
是“免税涨”了
。我们hsa里尽是er 1%以上的选择，最低的一个fund也要0.5%，收税帐号超过hsa是可
能的。
【在 s**********d 的大作中提到】
: 不知道，估计忍不住买了没用的东西浪费掉了。即使不浪费去投资，基本上我不可能在
: 收税账号里能炒过HSA里面免税涨。
:
: 少？
|
S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 32 Keep the receipts. It is very unlikely tax code regarding HSA will be
changed abruptly, you may exit it at any time as you choose.
To spend on HSA account, is the same as to spend on ROTH account, and take
the "saving" to invest in taxable account, does it make any sense? Not at
all. I am sure not many people will do that to ROTH, so why should one do
that to HSA. There is only one burden, which is you gonna keep the receipts.
Other than that, it is the same as spend on ROTH money and invest to
taxable accounts.
On HSA fees and funds, I sort of agree with you that is a drag, but there
are better providers, such as HSA bank and Elements Financial which allow
you to open TD Ameritrade brokerage account and invest anything that TDA
provides using your HSA money at TDA normal commission schedule. There are
some monthly maintenance fees but it can be waived if you keep certain level
of cash balance with HSA bank or Elements Financial, so HSA fees and funds
choices problem can be largely avoid.
we
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: In option 1, the tax is saved when I contribute the money. By paying the
: bill from HSA now, I make sure the tax saving is indeed realized, without
: the possibility that the HSA eventually ended up only as a tax deferred
: account during retirement if I'm quite healthy or if tax rules change.
: Eventually paying income tax for HSA is a risk I see.
: For a savvy investor who knows taking advantage of the possibly tax free
: growth in HSA, even he/she pays the bill from a cash account I would say we
: should consider the lost opportunity of taxable growth for that amount of
: money. So the more fair comparison I think would be comparing:
: Taxable growth with low cost index fund investing
|
S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 33 Move your HSA money to HSA bank of Elements Financial etc. You do not need
to keep your money with your current HSA.
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: 浪费的话hsa以后老了再浪费也是可能的，但是乐趣少了不少，而且就要交收入税，而
: 不再
: 是“免税涨”了
: 。我们hsa里尽是er 1%以上的选择，最低的一个fund也要0.5%，收税帐号超过hsa是可
: 能的。
|
s**********d
发帖数: 36899 | 34 老了有本钱浪费就浪费，比现在浪费了还不知道以后会不会吃猫食心安多了。
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: 浪费的话hsa以后老了再浪费也是可能的，但是乐趣少了不少，而且就要交收入税，而
: 不再
: 是“免税涨”了
: 。我们hsa里尽是er 1%以上的选择，最低的一个fund也要0.5%，收税帐号超过hsa是可
: 能的。
|
w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 35 Thanks a lot for the info on HSA bank and Elements Financial. HSA is new to
me. We used to have a generous health insurance plan. Didn't know I have
the option to move HSA money to other provider. I hope our policy allows me
to shop around. And do you have to take the burden of manually recording the
trades/dividend/reinvest for tax reporting purposes?
Regarding the comparisons, let me try to explain better what I meant:
The HSA money is not tax free until you actually spend it on medical
expenses, either now or in the future, assuming the tax code doesn't change.
When I pay the medical bill now with HSA money, I immediately make sure it'
s tax free. When I pay it later, some of the HSA money may end up being
taxed as income. The portion that is to be taxed as income is only growing
tax-deferred, rather than tax-free. That's a difference that I consider, in
a sense, a loss.
Also, when I pay the medical bill now with cash, it's after-tax money that I
could otherwise save and put into investment. So I wouldn't consider it
idle and static.
Now, would the partially tax-free, partially tax-deferred growth be greater
than the guaranteed tax-free now plus after-tax money that could
otherwise grow in a taxable account? That was really my question.
In the usual, IRA vs taxable account comparison, IRA would always come out
as the winner, although it's debatable whether Roth is better vs deductible.
HSA however, at least according to my previous observation before you
mentioned the other choices, has much worse funds. That in my opinion more
than offsets the benefit of tax-free/tax-deferred growth.
On top of that, in my own situation, my HSA is still subject to state tax,
which is really not attractive to me.
receipts.
【在 S**C 的大作中提到】
: Keep the receipts. It is very unlikely tax code regarding HSA will be
: changed abruptly, you may exit it at any time as you choose.
: To spend on HSA account, is the same as to spend on ROTH account, and take
: the "saving" to invest in taxable account, does it make any sense? Not at
: all. I am sure not many people will do that to ROTH, so why should one do
: that to HSA. There is only one burden, which is you gonna keep the receipts.
: Other than that, it is the same as spend on ROTH money and invest to
: taxable accounts.
: On HSA fees and funds, I sort of agree with you that is a drag, but there
: are better providers, such as HSA bank and Elements Financial which allow
|
r**********g
发帖数: 22734 | 36 如果你把hsa报回来的钱直接放roth。bravo!
懂了吗？当然你要是本来全都放满，那就无所谓。 |
w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 37 我懂你说的，不过我说的可能太绕了，难理解。
我想考量的当然是都放满了之后，投资比投资，什么样的vehicle更好。这钱如果拿去
消费，该考虑的就是乐趣，谈钱就俗了。
找到这篇文章，里边就解释了我的concern:
https://blog.wealthfront.com/high-deductible-health-plan/
"Assume you start with $10,000, your HSA charges fees of 1%, the mutual
funds available to you are likely to underperform the market by 2.1% and “
the market” is expected to generate a gross 6% annual return. After 20
years your HSA will grow to $17,714. That same $10,000, put into a passive
taxable account, with a 0.25% annual fee, a minimal portfolio tax rate of 0.
04% (see Minimize Your Investment Taxes for an explanation of why it is so
low) and a 35% ordinary income tax rate would be worth $19,001. The huge tax
benefit of an HSA does not make up for its poor investment options and high
fees. The HSA is simply not a compelling investment account. In fact it is
worse than a taxable account."
这段最后的结论就是我的concern.
SOFC推荐的hsabank 和Elements Financial可以提供brokerage link，然后你可以买到
low fee的index ETF。这个可以很好的解决high fee的问题。不过具体到我自己，估计
等以后换工作，或是公司不再提供contribution了，再一次性把余额转到hsabank吧。
【在 r**********g 的大作中提到】
: 如果你把hsa报回来的钱直接放roth。bravo!
: 懂了吗？当然你要是本来全都放满，那就无所谓。
|
s**********d
发帖数: 36899 | 38
ASS-U-ME？
name one HSA provider charges 1% with 10k balance.
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: 我懂你说的，不过我说的可能太绕了，难理解。
: 我想考量的当然是都放满了之后，投资比投资，什么样的vehicle更好。这钱如果拿去
: 消费，该考虑的就是乐趣，谈钱就俗了。
: 找到这篇文章，里边就解释了我的concern:
: https://blog.wealthfront.com/high-deductible-health-plan/
: "Assume you start with $10,000, your HSA charges fees of 1%, the mutual
: funds available to you are likely to underperform the market by 2.1% and “
: the market” is expected to generate a gross 6% annual return. After 20
: years your HSA will grow to $17,714. That same $10,000, put into a passive
: taxable account, with a 0.25% annual fee, a minimal portfolio tax rate of 0.
|
w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 39 He meant the funds in HSA.
【在 s**********d 的大作中提到】
:
: ASS-U-ME？
: name one HSA provider charges 1% with 10k balance.
|
S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 40 No you do not need to report. HSA was a niche and probably still is. But
with the spread of HDHP, let us hope big boys will jump in eventually.
[在 wltsn (waterfall) 的大作中提到：]
：Thanks a lot for the info on HSA bank and Elements Financial. HSA is new
to me. We used to have a generous health insurance plan. Didn't know I
have
：the option to move HSA money to other provider. I hope our policy allows
me to shop around. And do you have to take the burden of manually recording
the trades/dividend/reinvest for tax reporting purposes?
：........... |
|
|
w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 41 Thank you. Good, that's less hassle.
【在 S**C 的大作中提到】
: No you do not need to report. HSA was a niche and probably still is. But
: with the spread of HDHP, let us hope big boys will jump in eventually.
: [在 wltsn (waterfall) 的大作中提到：]
: ：Thanks a lot for the info on HSA bank and Elements Financial. HSA is new
: to me. We used to have a generous health insurance plan. Didn't know I
: have
: ：the option to move HSA money to other provider. I hope our policy allows
: me to shop around. And do you have to take the burden of manually recording
: the trades/dividend/reinvest for tax reporting purposes?
: ：...........
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