t**********g 发帖数: 3388 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 Working 讨论区 】
发信人: Gerdo (懒能补拙——匪兵乙), 信区: Working
标 题: 几个“印度人”职场的例子
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Jul 1 12:47:30 2012, 美东)
随便举几个例子,都没有博士学位。里面有两个IIT的,脑子肯定够使。反观知名第一
代移民华人高管(譬如Carefully,张亚勤,沈向洋,陆奇等等),都是有PhD的。懂行的人
们说说为啥这些人“印度人”为什么能平步青云?咱们这些没有博士学位的DS能从中学
到啥?
http://www.linkedin.com/in/radhikav
http://cn.linkedin.com/pub/prakash-sundaresan-孙博凯/0/448/29
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/satya-nadella/6/513/314
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mahmoud-el-assir/0/a74/407
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/shankar-arumugavelu/4/29/865 | t**********g 发帖数: 3388 | 2 这一代中国人教育里缺乏对组织行为的基本理解,和职场社交的基本能力。绝大多数中
国孩子都是应试教育出来的,根深蒂固地相信个人成功只靠个人能力:考分,天赋,智
力,努力,刻苦,竞争。。。现实社会里,绝大多数人无论个人能力,首先需要能融入
组织,被别人接受。缺乏这些能力,其他能力必然被打个大折扣--博士当硕士用,硕士
当本科用。
很多人用印度人的英文能力给自己做借口。印度人的英文如何就不说了。印度人在美国
职场和中国人最大的区别,不是英文,而是对组织行为的理解和接受。中国人往往看不
惯印度人的一些“恶习”,比如“欺上瞒下”,裙带关系,拍马屁等等。说白了,这体
现更多的,不是印度人的问题,而是主管观察者自身的不适应。
美国公司里,尤其IT环境里,中国人和印度人往往都很多。中国人不乏干活的好把式,
解决问题的时候往往不声不响就把困难都搞定了。可是一到开会的时候,在忙于沟通的
都是印度人。中国人对需要“掺和”的事情,似乎避之不及。这不是零星现象,而是普
遍现象。看到这种事情,我很清楚,这些中国同胞在一步一步葬送自己的职业前途,可
是你没什么办法。
还见到过这样的例子:一个技术上很能独当一面的中国工程师,论能力完全可以至少做
经理,可是他说话没有人听,无法服众。即便他是对的,也不能赢得赞许。出现这些状
况,你完全不能怪别人(至少怪别人是完全没有用的)。如果你有类似感受,我推荐看
一两本关于职业沟通能力的书(比如Persuasion, Influence)。 | z******a 发帖数: 5381 | 3 感觉还有一个原因是印度人互相扶植的比较厉害
不会互相拆台
中国有一个词,狠难翻译成莺文或者印度文,叫 “服众”
就是说中国人顶中国人,一个先决条件是你要足够牛。否则我不服你。 呵呵
的人
【在 t**********g 的大作中提到】 : 这一代中国人教育里缺乏对组织行为的基本理解,和职场社交的基本能力。绝大多数中 : 国孩子都是应试教育出来的,根深蒂固地相信个人成功只靠个人能力:考分,天赋,智 : 力,努力,刻苦,竞争。。。现实社会里,绝大多数人无论个人能力,首先需要能融入 : 组织,被别人接受。缺乏这些能力,其他能力必然被打个大折扣--博士当硕士用,硕士 : 当本科用。 : 很多人用印度人的英文能力给自己做借口。印度人的英文如何就不说了。印度人在美国 : 职场和中国人最大的区别,不是英文,而是对组织行为的理解和接受。中国人往往看不 : 惯印度人的一些“恶习”,比如“欺上瞒下”,裙带关系,拍马屁等等。说白了,这体 : 现更多的,不是印度人的问题,而是主管观察者自身的不适应。 : 美国公司里,尤其IT环境里,中国人和印度人往往都很多。中国人不乏干活的好把式,
| f*****i 发帖数: 3558 | 4 这本吗?
http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Business-
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion (Collins Business Essentials)
by Robert B. Cialdini
还有什么书可以推荐看的
谢
【在 t**********g 的大作中提到】 : 这一代中国人教育里缺乏对组织行为的基本理解,和职场社交的基本能力。绝大多数中 : 国孩子都是应试教育出来的,根深蒂固地相信个人成功只靠个人能力:考分,天赋,智 : 力,努力,刻苦,竞争。。。现实社会里,绝大多数人无论个人能力,首先需要能融入 : 组织,被别人接受。缺乏这些能力,其他能力必然被打个大折扣--博士当硕士用,硕士 : 当本科用。 : 很多人用印度人的英文能力给自己做借口。印度人的英文如何就不说了。印度人在美国 : 职场和中国人最大的区别,不是英文,而是对组织行为的理解和接受。中国人往往看不 : 惯印度人的一些“恶习”,比如“欺上瞒下”,裙带关系,拍马屁等等。说白了,这体 : 现更多的,不是印度人的问题,而是主管观察者自身的不适应。 : 美国公司里,尤其IT环境里,中国人和印度人往往都很多。中国人不乏干活的好把式,
| s**x 发帖数: 7506 | 5 创造力!中国工程师应该发挥自己的优势,多搞自己的公司。 我们大部分人都是老老
实实学习的好孩子,口语能力差,说服人的技巧不懂或不屑一顾, 所以应该多发挥自
己的优势避开自己的劣势。 | n******a 发帖数: 171 | 6 顶,说的太好了
【在 t**********g 的大作中提到】 : 这一代中国人教育里缺乏对组织行为的基本理解,和职场社交的基本能力。绝大多数中 : 国孩子都是应试教育出来的,根深蒂固地相信个人成功只靠个人能力:考分,天赋,智 : 力,努力,刻苦,竞争。。。现实社会里,绝大多数人无论个人能力,首先需要能融入 : 组织,被别人接受。缺乏这些能力,其他能力必然被打个大折扣--博士当硕士用,硕士 : 当本科用。 : 很多人用印度人的英文能力给自己做借口。印度人的英文如何就不说了。印度人在美国 : 职场和中国人最大的区别,不是英文,而是对组织行为的理解和接受。中国人往往看不 : 惯印度人的一些“恶习”,比如“欺上瞒下”,裙带关系,拍马屁等等。说白了,这体 : 现更多的,不是印度人的问题,而是主管观察者自身的不适应。 : 美国公司里,尤其IT环境里,中国人和印度人往往都很多。中国人不乏干活的好把式,
| c**d 发帖数: 3888 | 7 I had dinner with the founder of a program that cultivates future Asian
corporate leaders, and we talked about the same issue. He talked about some
problem areas for Asian engineers:
1. Expect being smart and hardworking will be automatically rewarded. This
is not true in the real world.
2. Not willing to take risks. When there is incomplete information, they
are reluctant to act, only follow.
3. View people skills as only secondary to technical skills. That is, "do
well at the job first, then build relationships if I have time left."
4. Taking a passive approach when seeking promotion. Because Asians are
often given a presumption of being followers, not leaders, we should
aggressively show everyone that we have what it takes to be a leader,
instead of waiting to be discovered and recognized.
5. Most leadership traits can be learned. We should take the time and effort
to learn these. | p**m 发帖数: 3876 | 8 Totally agree. This is an useful book to read. Not perfect but has a lot of
useful information.
http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Bamboo-Ceiling-Career-Strategies
I am currently working with my company's HR and training folks trying to
organized a series of training courses for developing leaders among Asian
Americans. | L******t 发帖数: 1985 | 9 WSJ Study Finds Asians Occupying Few Corner Offices
Despite an outsized share of Ivy League degrees, Asian-Americans are
underrepresented in executive suites, according to a study expected to be
released Monday.
Roughly 5% of U.S. residents identify themselves as Asian, but less than 2%
of executive roles at Fortune 500 companies are held by Asian-American
professionals, according to the report from the Center for Work-Life Policy,
a New York-based nonprofit think tank.
Only eight Asian professionals currently lead Fortune 500 companies,
including Vikram Pandit at Citigroup Inc. and Andrea Jung at Avon Products
Inc. Yet Asians often hit the work force with highly coveted degrees. Asians
and Asian Americans comprise 16% of undergraduates in the Ivy League,
according to the National Center for Education Statistics, and 35% of
undergraduates at University of California at Berkeley, Massachusetts
Institute of Technology and Stanford University.
The Center for Work-Life Policy's report surveyed 2,952 respondents of all
ethnicities, including Asian-Americans (half born in the U.S.), and included
follow-up interviews with respondents and with a number of companies that
are building career development initiatives for Asian employees.
One-quarter of Asian respondents said they face work-place discrimination,
while only 4% of Caucasians believe Asians are treated unfairly on the job,
according to the report.
To date, few companies have had career development programs for Asian
employees because they are seen as a 'model minority,' according to the
report. Ripa Rashid, one of the report's co-authors said that the survey
reveals something that she hears often from workers and managers: Asian-
American employees are culturally uncomfortable with the type of swagger and
self-promotion that often spells success in U.S. firms. 'They just put
their heads down and work and believe that's all it takes to get to the top,
' Ms. Rashid said.
The study also showed that Asian employees may be less comfortable sharing
their personal lives with coworkers and less likely to enlist more senior
coworkers as mentors or sponsors.
Merck & Co. started a program dubbed 'the Art of Cultural Fluency' to help
Asian employees fine-tune soft skills like presentation. 'The ah-ha [moment]
came quite a few years ago when we knew we needed a bold plan,' said
Deborah Dagit, the pharmaceutical giant's chief diversity officer. At the
end of 2009, 6% of the U.S. work force at Merck claimed Asian heritage, but
that demographic comprised only 4% of the company's executives and senior
managers.
In early 2010, AllianceBernstein started twice monthly voluntary seminars
for its Asian employees with Toastmasters, a nonprofit public-speaking
organization. The fund management firm now has its own Toastmasters chapters
in New York, San Antonio, Texas, and the United Kingdom. 'We didn't want to
do a training program, because they tend to be one-size fits all,' said
Vicki Walia, director of talent management and diversity at
AllianceBernstein.Jane Hyun, a corporate consultant and author of 'Breaking
the Bamboo Ceiling,' said Asian-Americans face very subtle but strong
cultural barriers at work. 'In Asia, there's a saying that the loudest duck
gets shot; in America it's: the squeaky wheel gets the grease,' said Ms.
Hyun. 'These things are totally different and at odds with each other.'
Ms. Hyun helped Merck craft its program. Critical to its success, she
pointed out, was buy-in from 20 non-Asian senior managers. 'In America, we
tend to assume that we should simply treat people the same way,' she said. '
But that's not always the best way to handle very different cultural values.' | t*******t 发帖数: 1656 | 10 well said.
We need action, not complains.
The trouble is action comes with risk.
Risk management is what we need to learn. Otherwise we become either "老老实
实的好孩子", or another 老吴.
【在 t**********g 的大作中提到】 : 这一代中国人教育里缺乏对组织行为的基本理解,和职场社交的基本能力。绝大多数中 : 国孩子都是应试教育出来的,根深蒂固地相信个人成功只靠个人能力:考分,天赋,智 : 力,努力,刻苦,竞争。。。现实社会里,绝大多数人无论个人能力,首先需要能融入 : 组织,被别人接受。缺乏这些能力,其他能力必然被打个大折扣--博士当硕士用,硕士 : 当本科用。 : 很多人用印度人的英文能力给自己做借口。印度人的英文如何就不说了。印度人在美国 : 职场和中国人最大的区别,不是英文,而是对组织行为的理解和接受。中国人往往看不 : 惯印度人的一些“恶习”,比如“欺上瞒下”,裙带关系,拍马屁等等。说白了,这体 : 现更多的,不是印度人的问题,而是主管观察者自身的不适应。 : 美国公司里,尤其IT环境里,中国人和印度人往往都很多。中国人不乏干活的好把式,
| h**o 发帖数: 1879 | 11 很好的话题。关注一下。
的人
【在 t**********g 的大作中提到】 : 这一代中国人教育里缺乏对组织行为的基本理解,和职场社交的基本能力。绝大多数中 : 国孩子都是应试教育出来的,根深蒂固地相信个人成功只靠个人能力:考分,天赋,智 : 力,努力,刻苦,竞争。。。现实社会里,绝大多数人无论个人能力,首先需要能融入 : 组织,被别人接受。缺乏这些能力,其他能力必然被打个大折扣--博士当硕士用,硕士 : 当本科用。 : 很多人用印度人的英文能力给自己做借口。印度人的英文如何就不说了。印度人在美国 : 职场和中国人最大的区别,不是英文,而是对组织行为的理解和接受。中国人往往看不 : 惯印度人的一些“恶习”,比如“欺上瞒下”,裙带关系,拍马屁等等。说白了,这体 : 现更多的,不是印度人的问题,而是主管观察者自身的不适应。 : 美国公司里,尤其IT环境里,中国人和印度人往往都很多。中国人不乏干活的好把式,
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