f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 1 没人写？俺先扔块砖，潜水的甲乙丙丁，不要笑。
１）数字
年底了，数了数excel里面的每月数据，今年过了一万一，基本满足了年初订下的月平
均千刀的小毛驴目标。
LIVE总共只玩了三次，基本收支平衡，所以online是几乎全部GDP。
在６家站点有帐户：
FullTilt, PokerStars, DoylesRoom, Cake, Absolute, Carbon，在FTP时间最多，８
０％以上。
２）Tournaments
今年在MTT上小有收获，技术有提高，运气也还可以，赢了几次几百人的small buy-in
(<$5) MTT，外加final table若干次，大概占总利润的３０％左右。考虑玩的次数不多
，实际成功率颇高。
SNG还是没有实现质的突破，多数时候还是在micro stake grinding，总体略有盈余。
FTP毛驴提高很快，即使$3.3 90SNG现在也并不好打。
３）Cash Games
在５０NL的micro stake基本站稳了脚跟，从年初因为屡输而发誓不玩，到年中开始盈
余，到年底几月稳赚，并替代tournaments成为主攻方向，收获颇多，纪律性， | z********i
发帖数: 3192 | | p********a
发帖数: 6437 | 3 景仰啊, 牛鼻上天了, 虽然我夸张了, 但是景仰是真的.
大牛们都出来论剑吧, 让俺们感悟一下. | t*********d
发帖数: 3398 | | c**********l
发帖数: 606 | 5 版主威武.
不知道每天花多少时间打牌(几桌), 多少时间学习?
我最近开始PLO, 从25开始, 6-8桌, ~500手/小时. 10BB/100, 加大概4BB/100 的RB.
每天很有纪律的2小时打牌, 若干小时看VIDEO/书. 平均每天1KH, $30左右赢利. 明年
争取搞定PLO50 (@$25/HOUR), 进军PLO100.
PLO给鱼更多的机会犯错, 不过方差也大. 控制倾斜比什么都重要. 我是银行卷控, 玩
NL时有100BI, PLO时200BI. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 i noticed that, you can handle multi tables AND PLO much better than i can
do, zan!
i play about 3 hours/day, so i'd say 1K hrs/year, then my rough avg. hourly
rate is about $10 (this includes rakeback and bonus, and mixed tourney+cash).
my optimal # of tables is 4, 2 cash games, 2 tourneys (which i can auto
pilot in early stages), more than that, i lose control and get headaches.
as for reading, i don't have large chunks of time to do it, so i read 15-20
mins everyday here and there.
one big th
【在 c**********l 的大作中提到】
: 版主威武.
: 不知道每天花多少时间打牌(几桌), 多少时间学习?
: 我最近开始PLO, 从25开始, 6-8桌, ~500手/小时. 10BB/100, 加大概4BB/100 的RB.
: 每天很有纪律的2小时打牌, 若干小时看VIDEO/书. 平均每天1KH, $30左右赢利. 明年
: 争取搞定PLO50 (@$25/HOUR), 进军PLO100.
: PLO给鱼更多的机会犯错, 不过方差也大. 控制倾斜比什么都重要. 我是银行卷控, 玩
: NL时有100BI, PLO时200BI.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 thanks, i want to keep this and move up a little.
my realisitic goal is $1500/month or close to $20K a year, that'll make
poker something for me, besides having fun.
【在 z********i 的大作中提到】
: 稳定的1月1000很不错了
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 8 ft, all my 2010 goals have been achieved by you long time ago!
【在 t*********d 的大作中提到】
: 赞， 真正的牛人， 就是这种稳定赢钱的。
| c**********o
发帖数: 213 | 9 Card Player Magazine, every issue, every article, cover to cover
me2,me2,虽然从那个欧洲订这个有点贵，而且还巨慢，但是拿到第一次后发现物有所值
，european Card Player和US版比不是一个级别的。european bluff也买了，但是没有
顶US版所以没法对比，但是比US Card Player还是差点。话说看了不少东西，但是玩的
很少，希望快点把资料过完第一遍后开始PS 600首存之路。（之前在ftp首存50，现在
那个后悔啊，要多存点才划算啊。。。还好我是之前就申请了rakeback的）无聊注册了
很多poker site，逛逛2+2后发现完全没有必要，还会影响以后真的去玩时候的id隐藏
。还没玩牌就范了那么多初学者错误了T___T | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 10 so you're in europe? share some live/online expr there bah? very curious to
know...
cardplayer is far better than bluff.
2+2 is the best source for all poker discussions.
as for 希望快点把资料过完第一遍, no need, it's like you have to get in water
to learn how to swim. to be honest with you, a lot of things i read i still
don't quite understand, because i'm not there yet. but it helps since it
opens your eyes to many new ideas.
some say 10K hands is a mark, with this volume, you'll get a good feeling
about
【在 c**********o 的大作中提到】
: Card Player Magazine, every issue, every article, cover to cover
: me2,me2,虽然从那个欧洲订这个有点贵，而且还巨慢，但是拿到第一次后发现物有所值
: ，european Card Player和US版比不是一个级别的。european bluff也买了，但是没有
: 顶US版所以没法对比，但是比US Card Player还是差点。话说看了不少东西，但是玩的
: 很少，希望快点把资料过完第一遍后开始PS 600首存之路。（之前在ftp首存50，现在
: 那个后悔啊，要多存点才划算啊。。。还好我是之前就申请了rakeback的）无聊注册了
: 很多poker site，逛逛2+2后发现完全没有必要，还会影响以后真的去玩时候的id隐藏
: 。还没玩牌就范了那么多初学者错误了T___T
| | | c**********o
发帖数: 213 | 11 live game就去过几次，周围有3个local casino，最远的出城后90分钟，最经的40分钟
。玩过2次小的live mtt和1次cash其他时候去了只是看看，玩的少的原因有几个：
casino空气太差，食物太贵，我又不开车，搭朋友车去多了不好意思（他只玩casino
game，我也不希望他老去送钱）最主要的原因是9人桌太慢了，这里如果不是大型mtt，
cash桌子平时人很少，我又比较害羞，online是个好地方。
第一次去live cash，发现没有Holdem的桌子，只有一桌PLO，玩的很大（好像是10/20
）旁边一个老头在放饮料的桌子上放着好几捆50欧元的扎好的现金。然后一个很热情的
中年人在桌子上不停向我招呼：坐下来吧，坐下来吧。我灰溜溜走了（我长得很像鱼吗
？好吧，但是那么大的游戏你以为华人都是暴发户啊，我连半个BI都没有）。
online 第一次接触游戏后（9月吧，无聊在emule上下了08年wsop的ft，看到peter
eastgate夺冠那集），之后冲动注册了ftp冲了50刀玩了300手NL2的6max，输了3个BI，
已经深夜了就睡了。之后就没怎么玩了， | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 12 interesting, go on pls...
我又比较害羞, are you a lady?
20
【在 c**********o 的大作中提到】
: live game就去过几次，周围有3个local casino，最远的出城后90分钟，最经的40分钟
: 。玩过2次小的live mtt和1次cash其他时候去了只是看看，玩的少的原因有几个：
: casino空气太差，食物太贵，我又不开车，搭朋友车去多了不好意思（他只玩casino
: game，我也不希望他老去送钱）最主要的原因是9人桌太慢了，这里如果不是大型mtt，
: cash桌子平时人很少，我又比较害羞，online是个好地方。
: 第一次去live cash，发现没有Holdem的桌子，只有一桌PLO，玩的很大（好像是10/20
: ）旁边一个老头在放饮料的桌子上放着好几捆50欧元的扎好的现金。然后一个很热情的
: 中年人在桌子上不停向我招呼：坐下来吧，坐下来吧。我灰溜溜走了（我长得很像鱼吗
: ？好吧，但是那么大的游戏你以为华人都是暴发户啊，我连半个BI都没有）。
: online 第一次接触游戏后（9月吧，无聊在emule上下了08年wsop的ft，看到peter
| c**********o
发帖数: 213 | 13 大部分就这样了，从知道规则到现在也就3个月不到的样子，不过在其他论坛认识了几
个在欧洲的年轻华人牌手。等我打够500场后再来汇报吧，我打算先玩500场sng。mtt太
久了，不适合我，cash在nl2/nl5玩abc poker我又没耐心，高级点就是给人送钱。其实
看得资料里一半是策略，另一半就是花絮啦，牌手故事书也很精彩啊。比如Ace on the
river和最新的那本deal me in。有些策略书真垃圾啊，amazon送到后看了10分钟就有
一种彻底被骗了的感觉。
ps.mit的回帖验证码系统真不方便，老是出错 | c**********o
发帖数: 213 | 14 i'm a math guy，从接触游戏后才发现原来系里面玩holdem的人很多，大部分都是
facebook。或者食堂里的home game，虽然都是数学系的，但是打的都不怎么样，普遍
非常loose，当我去问一个哥们：you only have to call 1000 for winning 5000, why do
you fold？他居然半天没反应过来。（但是黑线：原来你们打牌也没考虑过odds）现在
一个online chess玩的很好的同班希望和我一起take the game seriouly，有个人交流
感觉很不错。 | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 15 how's deal me in? thinking about getting one to read...
the
【在 c**********o 的大作中提到】
: 大部分就这样了，从知道规则到现在也就3个月不到的样子，不过在其他论坛认识了几
: 个在欧洲的年轻华人牌手。等我打够500场后再来汇报吧，我打算先玩500场sng。mtt太
: 久了，不适合我，cash在nl2/nl5玩abc poker我又没耐心，高级点就是给人送钱。其实
: 看得资料里一半是策略，另一半就是花絮啦，牌手故事书也很精彩啊。比如Ace on the
: river和最新的那本deal me in。有些策略书真垃圾啊，amazon送到后看了10分钟就有
: 一种彻底被骗了的感觉。
: ps.mit的回帖验证码系统真不方便，老是出错
| c**********o
发帖数: 213 | 16 完全没有策略的东西，但是故事都很有意思，我本来是冲着：peter eastgate, durrrr
和Annette_15的3章去读的。不过最后这3篇都比较短，还是有些网上没有的东西。读完
后发现：大部分pro都broke不是1，2次了，bankroll management真的很重要。书很短
，我2天就读完了，觉得是本值得读，但是不值得买的书。我这就没办法了，amazon
refund的钱差不多就是我回寄的邮费。另外一提："Swayne's advanced degree in
Hold'em"绝对是垃圾，完全不像amazon上review写的那样，绝对的垃圾，我都无法忍受
读完第一遍（这本书前我已经看了超过10本经典书了，我相信还是比较客观的） | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 17 能做到稳定手入1.2-2万一年很不错啊. 希望我也很快可以达到这目标. 还有很多要学
啊.. | h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 18 很赞阿！
in
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 没人写？俺先扔块砖，潜水的甲乙丙丁，不要笑。
: １）数字
: 年底了，数了数excel里面的每月数据，今年过了一万一，基本满足了年初订下的月平
: 均千刀的小毛驴目标。
: LIVE总共只玩了三次，基本收支平衡，所以online是几乎全部GDP。
: 在６家站点有帐户：
: FullTilt, PokerStars, DoylesRoom, Cake, Absolute, Carbon，在FTP时间最多，８
: ０％以上。
: ２）Tournaments
: 今年在MTT上小有收获，技术有提高，运气也还可以，赢了几次几百人的small buy-in
| I****r
发帖数: 795 | 19 厉害，一月1000不错啊，不知道每个月要投入多少时间？ | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 20 small fish, 3 hours a day, not really even close to 不错.
at this rate, you can do something else to make more.
【在 I****r 的大作中提到】
: 厉害，一月1000不错啊，不知道每个月要投入多少时间？
| | | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 21
sure you can probably work part time in Mcdonald's and make as much. But you
wouldn't enjoy it. Making 20k per year from a hobby and something you enjoy
is priceless. What else hobby can make you money instead of paying for it?
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: small fish, 3 hours a day, not really even close to 不错.
: at this rate, you can do something else to make more.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 22
sure you can probably work part time in Mcdonald's and make more. But you
wouldn't enjoy it. Making 20k per year from a hobby and something you enjoy
is priceless. What else hobby can make you money instead of paying for it?
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: small fish, 3 hours a day, not really even close to 不错.
: at this rate, you can do something else to make more.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 23
sure you can probably work part time in Mcdonald's and make more. But you
wouldn't enjoy it. Making 20k per year from a hobby and something you enjoy
is priceless. What else hobby can make you money instead of paying for it?
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: small fish, 3 hours a day, not really even close to 不错.
: at this rate, you can do something else to make more.
| s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 24 强
in
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 没人写？俺先扔块砖，潜水的甲乙丙丁，不要笑。
: １）数字
: 年底了，数了数excel里面的每月数据，今年过了一万一，基本满足了年初订下的月平
: 均千刀的小毛驴目标。
: LIVE总共只玩了三次，基本收支平衡，所以online是几乎全部GDP。
: 在６家站点有帐户：
: FullTilt, PokerStars, DoylesRoom, Cake, Absolute, Carbon，在FTP时间最多，８
: ０％以上。
: ２）Tournaments
: 今年在MTT上小有收获，技术有提高，运气也还可以，赢了几次几百人的small buy-in
| d*****t
发帖数: 245 | 25 版主威武。。。
我也跟风贴一个我这小半年的live game总结 呵呵
6月： 第一次去local casino. 我们乡下地方，当时人很少，只有一桌2/5， 因为第一
次去玩，手紧加上新手运气，3个小时下来赢了600.
7月： 第二次去， 1/2桌。 碰到一堆shark，输了100心里就承受不住了，走人
中间上课没时间
直到11月，感恩节前后再去（就是第一次来跟大家打了盘周六的tournament后， 1/2桌
，心态比较平和，小赢200
12月初，1/2桌 玩了3小时，基本持平
前天，平安夜再去，2个小时完全没牌，偶有有几把上了又被badbeat， 直接输掉500先
，郁闷到极点，最后一趟出去ATM再提200，心想这200再挂了就彻底走人，结果否极泰
来，接连3次double up 同一个老黑，后来手风顺了就挡不住，最后反弹到1k2， 算下
来还挣了600多， 走的时候那个老黑一直在旁边fuck,fuck不断。。。
小结： live game 速度比较慢，但是我还挺喜欢，online打过几回，总觉得看不到人
，很难判断，加上ftp经常搞些bad beat 觉得不可控因素太多，也许是 | k***n
发帖数: 1682 | | g****j
发帖数: 2908 | 27 俺一打cash game就输，555，没天份。比赛赢的钱，有一半以上都输回cash game了
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 28 not really, it includes cash and everything else (rakeback, bonus, ironman
bonus etc.)
i'm trying to have a stable record each month.
another benefit like i told you, is that cash games can make it easier to
become ironman month after month, then you'll get freerolls or medals (i
prefer). on average, i can get 2 "free" $26 tokens now every month. if i
have more time, i can even get more ironman plus medals.
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 29 Cash game 不容易啊。I can't even beat 10NL on FTP. Fryking got any tips? | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 30 hehe, guess i'm not at the level to give somebody tips, but here're some of
my thoughts:
1) taking good notes:
nothing is more important than this! over time, i have left notes on
hundreds of players, many of whom are regulars, either donks or small sharks
. i take notes whether i'm in the hand or not, and i love FTP's easy note
taking/checking feature a lot.
notes helped me in a lot of tough situations, many micro stake players are not
that complicated or adaptive at all. they make the same mis
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Cash game 不容易啊。I can't even beat 10NL on FTP. Fryking got any tips?
| | | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 32 I like taking notes too. I totally agree that it is one of the keys to
success. The problem i have with NL10 on FTP is that I rarely have more than
one player that i have played before when I open up a table (show up on my
poker tracker) and whenever someone wins a hand, they leave quickly after i
just got a little read on them. It is like playing in the dark all the time
. Maybe because there is many more player on NL10 level or I just do not
play enough cash game? | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 33 Take a look at the following hands. All of them are on NL10 table. Please
let me know any suggestion of the plays.
i have KK sb, EP raise 4X, I reraised to 15X. flop Ac 8c 5h. I meant to bet
half pot but misclicked check. EP bets pot size. I fold.
i have QQ bb, EP raise 4X, MP and button calls. I reraise to 15X. EP call,
MP and button folds
flop Kd10d5s, i bet half pot, EP shove 80 blinds. I tank and fold.
Is my play too weak? First hand I could call the flop bet. but it seems to me that I can | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 34 it's all about who you're against.
just my 2 cents, not meaning better or worse play i'd make:
hand 1:
laying down is good, what kind of hands can you beat (with all preflop, flop
action)? calling would be a waste of $. yes, he does have a chance semi-
bluffing but it's all about how likely.
i don't like the idea to bet half pot (if you did) out of position on this
flop with KK. it doesn't give you any info. it's too small to get either a
loose flush chaser or a weak ace out.
if you want to bet,
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Take a look at the following hands. All of them are on NL10 table. Please
: let me know any suggestion of the plays.
: i have KK sb, EP raise 4X, I reraised to 15X. flop Ac 8c 5h. I meant to bet
: half pot but misclicked check. EP bets pot size. I fold.
: i have QQ bb, EP raise 4X, MP and button calls. I reraise to 15X. EP call,
: MP and button folds
: flop Kd10d5s, i bet half pot, EP shove 80 blinds. I tank and fold.
: Is my play too weak? First hand I could call the flop bet. but it seems to me that I can
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 35 i guess maybe i play for a larger volume of hands (500/day), since every
table i open, it at least has 3 players whom i have notes on. sometimes
if they normally play in a different time zone, i might have little on them.
i don't wait to take notes until i get to the "read" level, i mean, for
example, if i see a guy who simply calls down all the way with A3o on Axxxx
board, i'll mark him right away. or if a guy check raises with a monster,
or if a guy rasies 3 out of 10 hands...
these "initial"
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: I like taking notes too. I totally agree that it is one of the keys to
: success. The problem i have with NL10 on FTP is that I rarely have more than
: one player that i have played before when I open up a table (show up on my
: poker tracker) and whenever someone wins a hand, they leave quickly after i
: just got a little read on them. It is like playing in the dark all the time
: . Maybe because there is many more player on NL10 level or I just do not
: play enough cash game?
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 36 Thanks for comments. so it appears that my betting size is too small in
general? I usually do not slam pot size after flop. I do not want to drive
out the weaker hand. Even when I hit sets, i like keep it between half pot
and 2/3 pot to be consistent. Maybe this is a leak.
The 3rd hand, sb actually had pocket As. Even though Js is not a strong
hand, it is a battle between sb and bb and the flop looked really good for
me. Is it a fold after flop if i raise and he reraise me back?
4th hand, th | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 37 maybe yes, i rarely make half pot bets unless i intend to build a pot. out
of position with TPTK or over pair, i make it simple on flop. again, micro
stake players are still as simple as us. i don't even like 2/3 pot bet any
more because it's too "standard" and gives away too much info. to observing
and smart opponents.
3rd hand, if you had re-raised preflop, then very easy to play. a little bit
extra "loss" can give you much more info/confidence.
4th hand, see how much trouble you brought to yo
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for comments. so it appears that my betting size is too small in
: general? I usually do not slam pot size after flop. I do not want to drive
: out the weaker hand. Even when I hit sets, i like keep it between half pot
: and 2/3 pot to be consistent. Maybe this is a leak.
: The 3rd hand, sb actually had pocket As. Even though Js is not a strong
: hand, it is a battle between sb and bb and the flop looked really good for
: me. Is it a fold after flop if i raise and he reraise me back?
: 4th hand, th
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 38 The bigger problem of 4th hand to me is out of position. I still can't
really see whether it is better to over raise flop or just raise to 2/3 pot.
Of course it is clearly a loser in this hand because he drawn out. But on
the other hand, He only had 5 outs. And he was able to call quite a lot with
this little outs. More than often he would not be able to drawn out and i
would have made more with my top pair. It is tough for me to decide which
one is better. Additionally, when you over raise flop | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 39 betting bigger on flop is in general better in 2 aspects:
1) win right here;
2) get a better picture of his range.
on the flop, he only needed to call 4BB more (pre 12BB pot, he bet 4BB on
flop and you raised to 8BB), he's getting 1:6, enough for his 5 outers even
if you indeed had a Qx. well, realistically, i don't think micro stake
players really do this math, but more from expr/donk side, hehe.
if you indeed run into a set, yes, most likely he'll only call to trap, but
still, you only lose (s
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: The bigger problem of 4th hand to me is out of position. I still can't
: really see whether it is better to over raise flop or just raise to 2/3 pot.
: Of course it is clearly a loser in this hand because he drawn out. But on
: the other hand, He only had 5 outs. And he was able to call quite a lot with
: this little outs. More than often he would not be able to drawn out and i
: would have made more with my top pair. It is tough for me to decide which
: one is better. Additionally, when you over raise flop
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 40
even
but
in
So raise flop bigger but check turn if called?
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: betting bigger on flop is in general better in 2 aspects:
: 1) win right here;
: 2) get a better picture of his range.
: on the flop, he only needed to call 4BB more (pre 12BB pot, he bet 4BB on
: flop and you raised to 8BB), he's getting 1:6, enough for his 5 outers even
: if you indeed had a Qx. well, realistically, i don't think micro stake
: players really do this math, but more from expr/donk side, hehe.
: if you indeed run into a set, yes, most likely he'll only call to trap, but
: still, you only lose (s
| | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 41 yeah, that's what i would do most of time.
but of course, you can't do this every time to become predictable.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
:
: even
: but
: in
: So raise flop bigger but check turn if called?
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