d******e
发帖数: 7844 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 Medicine 讨论区 】
发信人: drburnie (专门爆料), 信区: Medicine
标 题: 美国的医保真的像“sicko”里说的那么黑么？
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Mar 9 19:41:33 2010, 美东)
保险公司用尽各种方法否决你的医疗费用？ |
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 2 http://healthcarehorserace.com/activism/10062009/medicares-denial-rate-nearly-double-that-of-private-carriers/
this is sth more meaningful i guess.
【在 d******e 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Medicine 讨论区 】
: 发信人: drburnie (专门爆料), 信区: Medicine
: 标 题: 美国的医保真的像“sicko”里说的那么黑么？
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Mar 9 19:41:33 2010, 美东)
: 保险公司用尽各种方法否决你的医疗费用？
|
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 3 是。如果你的药费高到一定程度，就会被保险公司来audit.
而且他们有权利随时中断你的保险，他们所需要做的只是把你投保的费用退还
给你。这种情况发生过很多次，新闻都已经不太报道了（已经不是新闻了）
【在 d******e 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Medicine 讨论区 】
: 发信人: drburnie (专门爆料), 信区: Medicine
: 标 题: 美国的医保真的像“sicko”里说的那么黑么？
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Mar 9 19:41:33 2010, 美东)
: 保险公司用尽各种方法否决你的医疗费用？
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 4 你举几个例子来看看?
费用高到一定程度, 保险公司当然会来审计,因为有欺诈的风险.每年因为欺诈而损失的
医疗费至少几十亿美元.
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 是。如果你的药费高到一定程度，就会被保险公司来audit.
: 而且他们有权利随时中断你的保险，他们所需要做的只是把你投保的费用退还
: 给你。这种情况发生过很多次，新闻都已经不太报道了（已经不是新闻了）
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 5 说错了, 不是几十亿美元, 是几百亿美元,有的估计是上百亿.
http://www.nhcaa.org/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?webcode=anti_fraud_resource_centr&wpscode=TheProblemOfHCFraud
The National Health Care Anti-Fraud Association (NHCAA) estimates
conservatively that 3% of all health care spending—or $68 billion—is lost
to health care fraud. That’s more than the gross domestic product of 120
different countries, including Iceland, Ecuador, and Kenya.[1]
Other estimates by government and law enforcement agencies[2] place the loss
due to heal |
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 6 你还真别不相信。 取消有病的保险人的保单是保险公司常见的做法。
这种行为是保险公司自己也不否认的，因为根据目前的法律和保险公司
给你的合同，即使保险人没有任何明显的过错或者欺诈行为，他们也很
容易找一个借口取消你的保险。
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/17/business/fi-rescind17
Blue Cross praised employees who dropped sick policyholders, lawmaker says
Executives of three of the nation's largest health insurers told federal
lawmakers in Washington on Tuesday that they would continue canceling
medical coverage for some sick policyholders, despite withering criticism
from Republican and Democratic memb
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 你举几个例子来看看?
: 费用高到一定程度, 保险公司当然会来审计,因为有欺诈的风险.每年因为欺诈而损失的
: 医疗费至少几十亿美元.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 7 o健保，又能解决什么问题？
加州连学校都要tm关了。全民破产。
practice
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 你还真别不相信。 取消有病的保险人的保单是保险公司常见的做法。
: 这种行为是保险公司自己也不否认的，因为根据目前的法律和保险公司
: 给你的合同，即使保险人没有任何明显的过错或者欺诈行为，他们也很
: 容易找一个借口取消你的保险。
: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/17/business/fi-rescind17
: Blue Cross praised employees who dropped sick policyholders, lawmaker says
: Executives of three of the nation's largest health insurers told federal
: lawmakers in Washington on Tuesday that they would continue canceling
: medical coverage for some sick policyholders, despite withering criticism
: from Republican and Democratic memb
|
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 8 一个案例：
一个德州的女子得了乳腺癌，保险公司对她进行了audit后把她的保单取消了，
理由是这个女子以前曾经看过皮肤科的医生诊断她的青春痘状况，但是她
在申请保单的时候没有把这段经历写进去，所以就成了隐瞒医疗历史，保险公司
可以“合法合理”的取消她的保单。
http://cbs11tv.com/fuel-for-thought/blue.cross.shield.2.1049292.html |
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 9 再看一个案例
Oregon’s state run health plan denied the potentially life altering drug
because they did not feel it was "cost-effective." Instead, the State plan
offered to pay for either hospice care or physician-assisted suicide.
PHYSICIAN-ASSISTED SUICIDE。
http://www.plaintruth.com/the_plain_truth/2009/08/oregons-state-run-health-insurace-is-cost-effective-it-helps-you-die.html
那些以为，政府全民健保就能解决问题的，纯粹就是脑子进屎了。
嘿嘿，还有，您最近动了您的乳房了吗？
发信人: yourtt (rainmaker), 信区: USANews
标 题: 从obama的乳房自检到useful idiots急着要pal
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 一个案例：
: 一个德州的女子得了乳腺癌，保险公司对她进行了audit后把她的保单取消了，
: 理由是这个女子以前曾经看过皮肤科的医生诊断她的青春痘状况，但是她
: 在申请保单的时候没有把这段经历写进去，所以就成了隐瞒医疗历史，保险公司
: 可以“合法合理”的取消她的保单。
: http://cbs11tv.com/fuel-for-thought/blue.cross.shield.2.1049292.html
|
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 10 我不支持奥巴马的方案。
我支持对保险公司的一些行为和政策进行规范（比方说不许由无关原因取消
保单）
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: o健保，又能解决什么问题？
: 加州连学校都要tm关了。全民破产。
:
: practice
|
|
|
d****i
发帖数: 4354 | 11 preexisting condition是个问题，但不等于现在的医改提案是个好办法。多看看各方
面的意见。比如：
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10441
减少医疗上的各种浪费，提高效率，不花更多的钱而得到更好的服务才是正确的方向。
这只能通过竞争和创新实现。目前医保提案治标不治本，花更多的钱，得到整体上更差
的医疗。
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 一个案例：
: 一个德州的女子得了乳腺癌，保险公司对她进行了audit后把她的保单取消了，
: 理由是这个女子以前曾经看过皮肤科的医生诊断她的青春痘状况，但是她
: 在申请保单的时候没有把这段经历写进去，所以就成了隐瞒医疗历史，保险公司
: 可以“合法合理”的取消她的保单。
: http://cbs11tv.com/fuel-for-thought/blue.cross.shield.2.1049292.html
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 12 那你最好也要用脑子想想，谁来付这笔钱？
现在问题是医疗费用高，特别是为了应付将来官司的保守医疗，让病人保险公司花了大
笔钱。
不要去跟在胸大无脑的勒脖党后面喊口号，共产主义是美好的，我也想人人有饭吃，人
人有房子，人人有妞泡，人人每天不用干活，等着天上掉饲料。
可这个究竟怎么才能实现？
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 我不支持奥巴马的方案。
: 我支持对保险公司的一些行为和政策进行规范（比方说不许由无关原因取消
: 保单）
|
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 13 But why cause 高医疗费用??
You need to think about it as well!
The reasons for the high medical cost, I think, are
1. Insurance company charge a lot for the hospitals because of the medical
lawsuits has not compensation limit
2. A large amount of money was used for legal fee for the hospital and the
insurance company
3. Insurance company are for-profit organizations. Their profits are soaring
over the sky even in this tough economic situation.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 那你最好也要用脑子想想，谁来付这笔钱？
: 现在问题是医疗费用高，特别是为了应付将来官司的保守医疗，让病人保险公司花了大
: 笔钱。
: 不要去跟在胸大无脑的勒脖党后面喊口号，共产主义是美好的，我也想人人有饭吃，人
: 人有房子，人人有妞泡，人人每天不用干活，等着天上掉饲料。
: 可这个究竟怎么才能实现？
|
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 14 The reason for 保守医疗 in which the doctors do many unnecessary tests
are results from law suits
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 那你最好也要用脑子想想，谁来付这笔钱？
: 现在问题是医疗费用高，特别是为了应付将来官司的保守医疗，让病人保险公司花了大
: 笔钱。
: 不要去跟在胸大无脑的勒脖党后面喊口号，共产主义是美好的，我也想人人有饭吃，人
: 人有房子，人人有妞泡，人人每天不用干活，等着天上掉饲料。
: 可这个究竟怎么才能实现？
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 15 can you read?
I have already told you.
So where is the tort reform?
where is the regulation for those sucking trial lawyers in the liberal back yard?
soaring
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: But why cause 高医疗费用??
: You need to think about it as well!
: The reasons for the high medical cost, I think, are
: 1. Insurance company charge a lot for the hospitals because of the medical
: lawsuits has not compensation limit
: 2. A large amount of money was used for legal fee for the hospital and the
: insurance company
: 3. Insurance company are for-profit organizations. Their profits are soaring
: over the sky even in this tough economic situation.
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 16 又来了. 又看到第3点那个很shit的解释.
我以前就贴过, medical insurance 公司的利润率才3%左右. 排名第一的是饮料公司20
%.
soaring
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: But why cause 高医疗费用??
: You need to think about it as well!
: The reasons for the high medical cost, I think, are
: 1. Insurance company charge a lot for the hospitals because of the medical
: lawsuits has not compensation limit
: 2. A large amount of money was used for legal fee for the hospital and the
: insurance company
: 3. Insurance company are for-profit organizations. Their profits are soaring
: over the sky even in this tough economic situation.
|
n******n
发帖数: 12088 | 17 利润率不能说明任何问题。花街亏损了，高层员工还照发大笔bonus。
20
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 又来了. 又看到第3点那个很shit的解释.
: 我以前就贴过, medical insurance 公司的利润率才3%左右. 排名第一的是饮料公司20
: %.
:
: soaring
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 18 本来就不说明问题,这帮勒脖党非要拿来扯蛋.
【在 n******n 的大作中提到】
: 利润率不能说明任何问题。花街亏损了，高层员工还照发大笔bonus。
:
: 20
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 19 Do you include all the salary and bonus in the profit. Wall streat loses
lots of money and still handed out record bonus last year. Profit is nothing
. Profit margin is 3%, meaning the cost is 33.3x of the profit. Assume total
profits is 100 biliions. those insurance companies will cost 3300 billions
to medicare.
20
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 又来了. 又看到第3点那个很shit的解释.
: 我以前就贴过, medical insurance 公司的利润率才3%左右. 排名第一的是饮料公司20
: %.
:
: soaring
|
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 20
首先，你提的原因和我提的原因不是完全一回事。你没有提及医院对保险公司
付的保险费。这个被很多医院提出是他们的医疗费用飞涨的原因之一，而且
虽然医疗费用很高，但是很多医院还是入不敷出，纷纷的破产。所以我
在我的帖子里补充了一下这个观点。当然，我不敢保证那些医院的观点是对的。
第二，你态度能不能好一点？我好像没有惹你吧？你干吗那么愤怒？
back yard?
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: can you read?
: I have already told you.
: So where is the tort reform?
: where is the regulation for those sucking trial lawyers in the liberal back yard?
:
: soaring
|
|
|
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 21 你说的那个数据我知道。
但是那个是所谓的净利润。也就是扣除了各种开支（包括工资）之后的利润。
但是保险公司的工资和bonus 都非常高。这个是当然的，他们赚了钱，肯定是要
分掉的，傻瓜才会把净利润弄得那么高来当靶子呢
20
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 又来了. 又看到第3点那个很shit的解释.
: 我以前就贴过, medical insurance 公司的利润率才3%左右. 排名第一的是饮料公司20
: %.
:
: soaring
|
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 22 You didn't even understand my stand on this issue before you lash out.
I recommend you to read other people's post before you open your mouth.
Well, I think you are blindly angry, or simply sick. In either case, I think
it would be a waste of time for me to speak to you.
So, there you go. This is the last post I am replying to you.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 本来就不说明问题,这帮勒脖党非要拿来扯蛋.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 23 the true problem is you dont even understand this issue before you try to
open your pipe hole.
other than those big heart liberal talking points, what anything else do you
have?
think
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: You didn't even understand my stand on this issue before you lash out.
: I recommend you to read other people's post before you open your mouth.
: Well, I think you are blindly angry, or simply sick. In either case, I think
: it would be a waste of time for me to speak to you.
: So, there you go. This is the last post I am replying to you.
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 24
本来不想说什么的，这下子忍不住要问问了，你说的保险公司工资和bonus都‘非常高
’是从哪里听来的？自己上myvisajobs之类的网站上一查就知道保险公司一般职工的公
司是什么样的了。别拿CEO的工资说事，一个公司能有几个CEO，再高能占公司工资的多
少？保险公司的CEO拿的工资不比GM， Ford这些汽车公司的多。还有赚了钱肯定要自己
分掉这样的话。。。不懂不是你的错，不懂还要装懂出来胡说就怪不得被人家骂了。自
己去图书馆借本《Corporate Finance》的书来看看，搞清楚了企业挣的钱怎么分配的
再放厥词
照你说的，傻瓜才把利润弄那么高来当靶子，那些利润20%的饮料公司岂不是全都弱智了？要不就是饮料公司的工资已经高得实在发不完了，只好忍痛把剩下的20%报出来？这种理论估计都是没经过大脑就直接从大肠出来了
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 你说的那个数据我知道。
: 但是那个是所谓的净利润。也就是扣除了各种开支（包括工资）之后的利润。
: 但是保险公司的工资和bonus 都非常高。这个是当然的，他们赚了钱，肯定是要
: 分掉的，傻瓜才会把净利润弄得那么高来当靶子呢
:
: 20
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 25 i am not even sure where do you get the number. but this is not the point.
the point is this is private sector, whatever they get paid is none of
your business. What is our business then? when government send our hard
earned tax dollar stimulus to bailout those suckers, this is our business.
who signed this into law?
obama.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123487951033799545.html
government need to make sure to bring up the competition into market, not
join the market. who proposed to break the
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: Do you include all the salary and bonus in the profit. Wall streat loses
: lots of money and still handed out record bonus last year. Profit is nothing
: . Profit margin is 3%, meaning the cost is 33.3x of the profit. Assume total
: profits is 100 biliions. those insurance companies will cost 3300 billions
: to medicare.
:
: 20
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 26 pre-existing condition的确有其不合理性，但也不是一个简单的对错问题，从根本上
来说是保险公司的自我保护，如果没有这一限制，绝大多数自以为身体健康的人都会到
要看病的时才买保险，设想一个人平时不肯花钱上保险，得了癌症以后才去买，想每个
月交几百块保费就让保险公司给付成千上万的医疗费，这种生意谁做得来？保险公司在
这个问题上不地道的地方是在收了人家一年年的保费之后在人家得了大病的时候把人踢
掉，这种是需要立法治理的，然而对于那种平时不交钱到病了才想投保的那种，保险公
司拒绝pre-existing condition没什么错。
【在 d****i 的大作中提到】
: preexisting condition是个问题，但不等于现在的医改提案是个好办法。多看看各方
: 面的意见。比如：
: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10441
: 减少医疗上的各种浪费，提高效率，不花更多的钱而得到更好的服务才是正确的方向。
: 这只能通过竞争和创新实现。目前医保提案治标不治本，花更多的钱，得到整体上更差
: 的医疗。
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 27
soaring
根本就不知道保险公司怎么运作就在这里想当然。保险公司靠保费赚来的钱远远没有宣
传的那么多，实际上保险公司很大程度上要靠投资来赚钱才能有足够的钱赔claim，保
险公司收到的保费有很大一块是要付给agent的，比如life insurance的情况是头一年
的保费，100%以上（常见的是在130%左右）要付给卖保险的agent的，之后的X年里10%
左右，medical insurance的情况我没有准确数据，谁有兴趣可以去查查。保险公司的
投资部门干的活风险跟街上做基金的有一比，但是挣的比街上少得多。
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: But why cause 高医疗费用??
: You need to think about it as well!
: The reasons for the high medical cost, I think, are
: 1. Insurance company charge a lot for the hospitals because of the medical
: lawsuits has not compensation limit
: 2. A large amount of money was used for legal fee for the hospital and the
: insurance company
: 3. Insurance company are for-profit organizations. Their profits are soaring
: over the sky even in this tough economic situation.
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 28 I understand the cost of insurance is way high than 3% net profit you
mentioned. I guess both of us agree that medical system is broken and need
to be fixed. But I will not put my hope on republic because they do think
that the current system is perfect and do NOT need any change. Republic
party is in power in Congress in past 12 years and do nothing on medical
system, which reflect exactly replibulic standing on the medicare, do
nothing and deregulation. I ask you if the republic is so good, wh
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: i am not even sure where do you get the number. but this is not the point.
: the point is this is private sector, whatever they get paid is none of
: your business. What is our business then? when government send our hard
: earned tax dollar stimulus to bailout those suckers, this is our business.
: who signed this into law?
: obama.
: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123487951033799545.html
: government need to make sure to bring up the competition into market, not
: join the market. who proposed to break the
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 29 Please give the source of 'republicans think the current system is perfect and needs no change' Don't tell me it is MSNBC or Rachel Maddow. Republicans have been proposing things that are much more realistic and less damaging to the deficit, but liberals just pretend to be deaf.
Also, you need to do some research on how democrates are banking on the current malpractice law -- John Edward basically single-handedly boosted it up to a new level, thanks to the cases he did when he was a lawyer, whic |
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 30 i just tell you the simple truth. and the republican is even out of context.
Due to current situation, you only have 2 choices, one is to keep the
current system or you go liberal communism healthcare.
and you tell me you would rather go communism healthcare rather than have
what you have?
the
republic
middle
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: I understand the cost of insurance is way high than 3% net profit you
: mentioned. I guess both of us agree that medical system is broken and need
: to be fixed. But I will not put my hope on republic because they do think
: that the current system is perfect and do NOT need any change. Republic
: party is in power in Congress in past 12 years and do nothing on medical
: system, which reflect exactly replibulic standing on the medicare, do
: nothing and deregulation. I ask you if the republic is so good, wh
|
|
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 31 just like you keep talking about how bad the american food is, while your
only version of change is to let us all eating ...
shit?
context.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: i just tell you the simple truth. and the republican is even out of context.
: Due to current situation, you only have 2 choices, one is to keep the
: current system or you go liberal communism healthcare.
: and you tell me you would rather go communism healthcare rather than have
: what you have?
:
: the
: republic
: middle
|
d****i
发帖数: 4354 | 32 同意盲目相信某一党是不行的.民主党现在搞的一套只能使情况以另外一种形式得到更
糟糕的结果。共和党占多数的时候没有搞足够的医保改革是令人失望。不过现在应该把
主要精力放在增加工作机会上，也就是说需要精打细算的时候，不应该盲目往医保里扔
钱。
医保最大问题就是什么都是中间人(保险公司)在付钱,消费者无法行使对价格控制最有
效的自由选择权。而服务提供者也没有在价格和服务质量上竞争的动力。这个不改掉，
医保改革永远改不好。
象Wholefood搞的high deductible health insurance + HSA（health saving account
)其实就是不错的办法。
the
republic
middle
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: I understand the cost of insurance is way high than 3% net profit you
: mentioned. I guess both of us agree that medical system is broken and need
: to be fixed. But I will not put my hope on republic because they do think
: that the current system is perfect and do NOT need any change. Republic
: party is in power in Congress in past 12 years and do nothing on medical
: system, which reflect exactly replibulic standing on the medicare, do
: nothing and deregulation. I ask you if the republic is so good, wh
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 33 obama has the very resource and opportunity to do it right, to do what
people want, to do what people voted for hope and change.
but he failed.
account
【在 d****i 的大作中提到】
: 同意盲目相信某一党是不行的.民主党现在搞的一套只能使情况以另外一种形式得到更
: 糟糕的结果。共和党占多数的时候没有搞足够的医保改革是令人失望。不过现在应该把
: 主要精力放在增加工作机会上，也就是说需要精打细算的时候，不应该盲目往医保里扔
: 钱。
: 医保最大问题就是什么都是中间人(保险公司)在付钱,消费者无法行使对价格控制最有
: 效的自由选择权。而服务提供者也没有在价格和服务质量上竞争的动力。这个不改掉，
: 医保改革永远改不好。
: 象Wholefood搞的high deductible health insurance + HSA（health saving account
: )其实就是不错的办法。
:
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 34 you can find many by googling. I hate people just cite the talking points of
republics. Man, it is just talking. We have to look at what they do when
they are in power. Republics do nothing, do you want me to repeat again,
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when they were in power in the past 12 YEARS, not months.
So I conclude that republics want to stay put and we need vote all
republics out. Republics are mostly lawyers too and want to look after their
tort lawyer buddies, just like Democrats do.
and needs
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: Please give the source of 'republicans think the current system is perfect and needs no change' Don't tell me it is MSNBC or Rachel Maddow. Republicans have been proposing things that are much more realistic and less damaging to the deficit, but liberals just pretend to be deaf.
: Also, you need to do some research on how democrates are banking on the current malpractice law -- John Edward basically single-handedly boosted it up to a new level, thanks to the cases he did when he was a lawyer, whic
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 35 I am disappointed too. I hope Obama cuts cost first and then extends
coverage to all Americans. But I know the reasoning of Obama plan. He think
cost will not go down without broad mandatory coverage, as health people
will opt out the coverage to save money and sicker people premium will have
to go up. Essentially, insurance has to be subsided by the healthier and
younger towards the older and sicker.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: obama has the very resource and opportunity to do it right, to do what
: people want, to do what people voted for hope and change.
: but he failed.
:
: account
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 36 拜托,你不懂会计就别除了现了.
现去google一下什么叫cost, 什么叫expense, 什么叫cash flow.
nothing
total
billions
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: Do you include all the salary and bonus in the profit. Wall streat loses
: lots of money and still handed out record bonus last year. Profit is nothing
: . Profit margin is 3%, meaning the cost is 33.3x of the profit. Assume total
: profits is 100 biliions. those insurance companies will cost 3300 billions
: to medicare.
:
: 20
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 37 你看我前面贴的了嘛? 光医疗的ｆｒａｕｄ就是上百亿， 上千亿呢．
医院入不敷出，那是因为很多没钱的人去治疗后拍拍屁股就走人了，和保险公司没有什
么关系．谁叫医院去治疗那些非法移民的？ 那个不是活该是什么？
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: You didn't even understand my stand on this issue before you lash out.
: I recommend you to read other people's post before you open your mouth.
: Well, I think you are blindly angry, or simply sick. In either case, I think
: it would be a waste of time for me to speak to you.
: So, there you go. This is the last post I am replying to you.
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 38 这个观点我以前就反驳过了， 为什么那些饮料公司的工资和ｂｏｎｕｓ就不高了？难
道他们赚了钱就不分掉，偏要放进利润？偏偏要去做靶子？ 你以为饮料公司的管理层
比医疗保险公司的管理层笨？
你看看保险公司的销售和费用， 那些工资和ｂｏｎｕｓ占很小很小一部分而已． 别
光盯着个芝麻，那个根本不是大头．是新闻里面拿来忽悠普通老百姓的，老百姓不知道
具体情况， 听了别人拿很多钱就愤怒了．
我去ｎｙ，坐出租车，被洗过脑的司机就说美国被ｗａｌｌ ｓｔｒｅｅｔ的人搞坏了
．我听了只好暗暗发笑．但这里的人都读过不少书， 再这么被忽悠好像不应该吧．
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 你说的那个数据我知道。
: 但是那个是所谓的净利润。也就是扣除了各种开支（包括工资）之后的利润。
: 但是保险公司的工资和bonus 都非常高。这个是当然的，他们赚了钱，肯定是要
: 分掉的，傻瓜才会把净利润弄得那么高来当靶子呢
:
: 20
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 39 哈哈， 回答的好． 我刚刚没有看到你的贴， 发完只好才看到你和我的观点一样．
奇怪那些问问题的人难道自己不思考嘛？ 有了个立场然后去证明这个立场是对的．
智了？要不就是饮料公司的工资已经高得实在发不完了，只好忍痛把剩下的20%报出来
？这种理论估计都是没经过大脑就直接从大肠出来了
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: Please give the source of 'republicans think the current system is perfect and needs no change' Don't tell me it is MSNBC or Rachel Maddow. Republicans have been proposing things that are much more realistic and less damaging to the deficit, but liberals just pretend to be deaf.
: Also, you need to do some research on how democrates are banking on the current malpractice law -- John Edward basically single-handedly boosted it up to a new level, thanks to the cases he did when he was a lawyer, whic
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 40 我不觉得pre-existing condition有什么问题啊． 汽车保险费，也看pre-existing
condition的， 你以前ｔｉｃｋｅｔ多当然保费就高．好像没有人说不合理吧．
当然也有一些人天生有一些医疗问题， 但那个是极少数，也是已经有了解决的方法．
现在是不管什么pre-existing condition都不可以加保费，那就太搞笑了．
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: pre-existing condition的确有其不合理性，但也不是一个简单的对错问题，从根本上
: 来说是保险公司的自我保护，如果没有这一限制，绝大多数自以为身体健康的人都会到
: 要看病的时才买保险，设想一个人平时不肯花钱上保险，得了癌症以后才去买，想每个
: 月交几百块保费就让保险公司给付成千上万的医疗费，这种生意谁做得来？保险公司在
: 这个问题上不地道的地方是在收了人家一年年的保费之后在人家得了大病的时候把人踢
: 掉，这种是需要立法治理的，然而对于那种平时不交钱到病了才想投保的那种，保险公
: 司拒绝pre-existing condition没什么错。
|
|
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 41 so in your dict, cost is equal to net income. Please give me a break. You do
not have to preach me anything. You are not a teacher and not qualified to
preach what is cash flow. I do read 10K and 10Q of several of insurancce
companies to invest.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 拜托,你不懂会计就别除了现了.
: 现去google一下什么叫cost, 什么叫expense, 什么叫cash flow.
:
: nothing
: total
: billions
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 42 However most American do agree that pre-existing condition should not
preclude coverage. Please become more humanity and let a few $ cloud your
vision. We are not just animals.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 我不觉得pre-existing condition有什么问题啊． 汽车保险费，也看pre-existing
: condition的， 你以前ｔｉｃｋｅｔ多当然保费就高．好像没有人说不合理吧．
: 当然也有一些人天生有一些医疗问题， 但那个是极少数，也是已经有了解决的方法．
: 现在是不管什么pre-existing condition都不可以加保费，那就太搞笑了．
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 43 呵呵， 告诉我ｃｏｓｔ和ｅｘｐｎｓｅ的差别．
do
to
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: so in your dict, cost is equal to net income. Please give me a break. You do
: not have to preach me anything. You are not a teacher and not qualified to
: preach what is cash flow. I do read 10K and 10Q of several of insurancce
: companies to invest.
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 44 没有说preexisiting condition 就preclude coverage．但是保费要高一点，那是很合理的．
民主党说有没有preexisiting的保费都应该一样,你觉得那是合理的?
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: However most American do agree that pre-existing condition should not
: preclude coverage. Please become more humanity and let a few $ cloud your
: vision. We are not just animals.
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 45 so wellpoint (underwriter blueshield and bluecross) total revnue 65 billions
in 2009, profit 4.7 billions. Lockheed Martin (f22 and F35 maker) total
revenue $45 billions, profit 3 billions. so in your logic, defense is cheap
because Defense companies profit margin is so thin as insurer.
I would ask you do you include all salary and bonus and administrative cost
into the expense? Do those cost are way higher than 3% profit. Why do you
have to mislead people by citing 3% profit margin? We are disc |
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 46 I am just looking through wellpoint 10Q.
In 2009, revenue 56 billions, sales and admintrative cost 9.7 billions and
profit 4.7 billions. So cost is total 14.4 billions, more than 20% of the
total revenue, 6x of the 3% in your post. 6x understatement is big thing to
mention because you will not live a good life if your salary is decrease 16.
7% of current level.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵， 告诉我ｃｏｓｔ和ｅｘｐｎｓｅ的差别．
:
: do
: to
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 47 保险公司和武器公司的admin cost 有可比性吗？
真是笑话
英文这么水就说中文好了，不然你写着也难受别人看着也不爽
billions
cheap
cost
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: so wellpoint (underwriter blueshield and bluecross) total revnue 65 billions
: in 2009, profit 4.7 billions. Lockheed Martin (f22 and F35 maker) total
: revenue $45 billions, profit 3 billions. so in your logic, defense is cheap
: because Defense companies profit margin is so thin as insurer.
: I would ask you do you include all salary and bonus and administrative cost
: into the expense? Do those cost are way higher than 3% profit. Why do you
: have to mislead people by citing 3% profit margin? We are disc
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 48 A Time Magazine-Abt SRBI poll in late July 2009 found that a large majority
of Americans (80%) favored a requirement that insurance companies insure
people even if they suffer from pre-existing conditions.[1]
In September 2009, the monthly Kaiser Health Tracking Poll report said:
The public’s most unanimous and bipartisan support is saved for a
proposal to have the federal government require that health insurance
companies cover anyone who applies, even if they have a pre-existing
condition.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 没有说preexisiting condition 就preclude coverage．但是保费要高一点，那是很合理的．
: 民主党说有没有preexisiting的保费都应该一样,你觉得那是合理的?
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 49 So you are so laughable. Cost of defense companies are comparable to
insurance companies. Do you want evidence? Please do not just spill some
nonsense out of your month. I guess you still have the brain to read their
annual reports. They can be found at SEC.
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: 保险公司和武器公司的admin cost 有可比性吗？
: 真是笑话
: 英文这么水就说中文好了，不然你写着也难受别人看着也不爽
:
: billions
: cheap
: cost
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 50 英文这么水就说中文好了，不然你写着也难受别人看着也不爽
军工企业有underwriting的花销吗？
军工企业付给agent的commission有100%以上？
军工企业需要花大量精力核实调查medical fraud?
用你自己的夹生E文回赠
Please do not just spill some nonsense out of your month.
顺便问问your month 是什么啊？不会是你的period 吧？
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: So you are so laughable. Cost of defense companies are comparable to
: insurance companies. Do you want evidence? Please do not just spill some
: nonsense out of your month. I guess you still have the brain to read their
: annual reports. They can be found at SEC.
|
|
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 51 Is this a English board? Is this website in America? If you feel depressed
to say or read English, you can go back to China. Most people say Chinese
there. Why do I care your feelings. If you do not like my posts, please do
not read them. I am not put a gun on your head to reply my posts.
Again, do you have evidence that adm. costs in denfense are higher than in
insurers? Do you do any research before posting or just listing some
nonsense.
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: 英文这么水就说中文好了，不然你写着也难受别人看着也不爽
: 军工企业有underwriting的花销吗？
: 军工企业付给agent的commission有100%以上？
: 军工企业需要花大量精力核实调查medical fraud?
: 用你自己的夹生E文回赠
: Please do not just spill some nonsense out of your month.
: 顺便问问your month 是什么啊？不会是你的period 吧？
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 52 急了，哈哈
贴英文没问题，可是贴得语法错误那么多还好意思理直气壮的就比较有娱乐价值了哈
多谢活跃气氛！不过真诚建议先考考托福再在这里显你老的英文，不然一眼扫过去全是
语法改错样题，不会是给ETS编题库的吧？
最后再指明一点，我说的是两者的费用不具有可比性，而不是谁比谁高，不过看来你是
英文没学好中文也忘得差不多了，所以就不强求你能读懂咯，哈哈
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: Is this a English board? Is this website in America? If you feel depressed
: to say or read English, you can go back to China. Most people say Chinese
: there. Why do I care your feelings. If you do not like my posts, please do
: not read them. I am not put a gun on your head to reply my posts.
: Again, do you have evidence that adm. costs in denfense are higher than in
: insurers? Do you do any research before posting or just listing some
: nonsense.
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 53 btw, most people don't SAY Chinese in China, they SPEAK Chinese there
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: Is this a English board? Is this website in America? If you feel depressed
: to say or read English, you can go back to China. Most people say Chinese
: there. Why do I care your feelings. If you do not like my posts, please do
: not read them. I am not put a gun on your head to reply my posts.
: Again, do you have evidence that adm. costs in denfense are higher than in
: insurers? Do you do any research before posting or just listing some
: nonsense.
|
B*D
发帖数: 5016 | 54 如果让消费者对医疗服务来讨价还价，也是很困难的我认为
渐进的改革其实不错，但是就像你说的GOP掌权的时候没有动掉TORT
obama又搞大跃进，都令人不满
现在最好的情况是上一堆pilot programe，看看到底怎么样来控制住开销
有效控制开销后，再搞全民健保不迟
但是有人说不增大pool，开销下不来
我觉得，在目前的这个pool下面能把开销控制住，那么再搞全民大pool后
才更有希望降低医疗成本
account
【在 d****i 的大作中提到】
: 同意盲目相信某一党是不行的.民主党现在搞的一套只能使情况以另外一种形式得到更
: 糟糕的结果。共和党占多数的时候没有搞足够的医保改革是令人失望。不过现在应该把
: 主要精力放在增加工作机会上，也就是说需要精打细算的时候，不应该盲目往医保里扔
: 钱。
: 医保最大问题就是什么都是中间人(保险公司)在付钱,消费者无法行使对价格控制最有
: 效的自由选择权。而服务提供者也没有在价格和服务质量上竞争的动力。这个不改掉，
: 医保改革永远改不好。
: 象Wholefood搞的high deductible health insurance + HSA（health saving account
: )其实就是不错的办法。
:
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 55
MA已经有了，搞得很不成功，但是巴马政府就是装看不见
其实理论上来说强制全民都买保险的确是降低花费的最根本的办法，然而这只是基于一
个最简化的模型，如果把人的贪婪天性和政府部门的官僚腐败等各种因素都考虑进去就
是另一回事了
【在 B*D 的大作中提到】
: 如果让消费者对医疗服务来讨价还价，也是很困难的我认为
: 渐进的改革其实不错，但是就像你说的GOP掌权的时候没有动掉TORT
: obama又搞大跃进，都令人不满
: 现在最好的情况是上一堆pilot programe，看看到底怎么样来控制住开销
: 有效控制开销后，再搞全民健保不迟
: 但是有人说不增大pool，开销下不来
: 我觉得，在目前的这个pool下面能把开销控制住，那么再搞全民大pool后
: 才更有希望降低医疗成本
:
: account
|
d********f
发帖数: 43471 | 56 这个对老黑不是已经实现了么
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 那你最好也要用脑子想想，谁来付这笔钱？
: 现在问题是医疗费用高，特别是为了应付将来官司的保守医疗，让病人保险公司花了大
: 笔钱。
: 不要去跟在胸大无脑的勒脖党后面喊口号，共产主义是美好的，我也想人人有饭吃，人
: 人有房子，人人有妞泡，人人每天不用干活，等着天上掉饲料。
: 可这个究竟怎么才能实现？
|
d********f
发帖数: 43471 | 57 demcrap之所以滥就滥在医生律师的政治献金是要塞在腰包里的，所以cost不能降，但
是有要装b骗吃福利的选票，所以pool要扩大，反正好处全归自己，谁来买单？就是正
经劳动的工薪阶层
【在 B*D 的大作中提到】
: 如果让消费者对医疗服务来讨价还价，也是很困难的我认为
: 渐进的改革其实不错，但是就像你说的GOP掌权的时候没有动掉TORT
: obama又搞大跃进，都令人不满
: 现在最好的情况是上一堆pilot programe，看看到底怎么样来控制住开销
: 有效控制开销后，再搞全民健保不迟
: 但是有人说不增大pool，开销下不来
: 我觉得，在目前的这个pool下面能把开销控制住，那么再搞全民大pool后
: 才更有希望降低医疗成本
:
: account
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 58 so you still in the stage of Tofel. There is no problem to say Chinese or
speak Chinese. your level of English sucks. Who say that we can not say
Chinese. I guess you do not have any understanding between say and speak.
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: btw, most people don't SAY Chinese in China, they SPEAK Chinese there
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 59 So what. It still does not say why adm. cost of defense is lower than that of insurer. Why do you dodge the question? The cost structure of any industry is different. What you said does not support your argument. I guess you are just saying some nonsense without backing up of evidence.
and feel good about it.
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: btw, most people don't SAY Chinese in China, they SPEAK Chinese there
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 60 Would you kindly point out more of my grammar mistakes since you said there
are so many. I will gladly thank you for improving my English because
English is important to me in my field.
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: 急了，哈哈
: 贴英文没问题，可是贴得语法错误那么多还好意思理直气壮的就比较有娱乐价值了哈
: 多谢活跃气氛！不过真诚建议先考考托福再在这里显你老的英文，不然一眼扫过去全是
: 语法改错样题，不会是给ETS编题库的吧？
: 最后再指明一点，我说的是两者的费用不具有可比性，而不是谁比谁高，不过看来你是
: 英文没学好中文也忘得差不多了，所以就不强求你能读懂咯，哈哈
|
|
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 61 This is why I oppose the first bill passed by Senator and support the surge
of Scot Browmn, R. of Mass.. All increase of cost by expanding the coverage
without reining the cost structure. The second bill are better. For example
it includes special court for medical practice and exchanges for insurance
policy. So it will become harder for trial lawyers to win because juries are
doctors who will look after their colleagues in special court. Insurance
exchange make insurance more competitive so cos
【在 d********f 的大作中提到】
: demcrap之所以滥就滥在医生律师的政治献金是要塞在腰包里的，所以cost不能降，但
: 是有要装b骗吃福利的选票，所以pool要扩大，反正好处全归自己，谁来买单？就是正
: 经劳动的工薪阶层
|
d****i
发帖数: 4354 | 62 是这样的，最好每个州自己去搞一套自己认定行的，试验试验。麻省，加州愿意搞
public option，自己搞，保守州愿意搞促进竞争制度，也可以尝试。试验一段时间再
下结论。
联邦政府大包办有违宪嫌疑，毕竟个人的医疗和interstate commerce扯上关系太牵强
。而且强制买保险象征人头税一样，加上联邦price control，怎么看也是历史的倒退。
要搞pool不能靠强制，而要有incentive，比如你从年轻健康时开始买保险，到你年纪
大的时候，你的plan要便宜一些，也就是要弄得financially make sense to maintain
health insurance。如果你愿意到年纪大才开始买保险也可以，你的保险就要贵得多。
消费者个人去讨价还价也没必要，这种市场情况下，会有一些类似co-op的机构出现，帮助一群消费者negotiate。好比我现在用的电力公司就是一个co-op，电费比以前便宜不少。
【在 B*D 的大作中提到】
: 如果让消费者对医疗服务来讨价还价，也是很困难的我认为
: 渐进的改革其实不错，但是就像你说的GOP掌权的时候没有动掉TORT
: obama又搞大跃进，都令人不满
: 现在最好的情况是上一堆pilot programe，看看到底怎么样来控制住开销
: 有效控制开销后，再搞全民健保不迟
: 但是有人说不增大pool，开销下不来
: 我觉得，在目前的这个pool下面能把开销控制住，那么再搞全民大pool后
: 才更有希望降低医疗成本
:
: account
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 63 you probably can't read Chinese anymore.... when/where did I say 'the cost
of dense is lower'? I said '没有可比性‘, why is it so hard for you to
understand?? comparing these 2 is like comparing apple and orange, haha
of insurer. Why do you dodge the question? The cost structure of any
industry is different. What you said does not support your argument. I guess
you are just saying some nonsense without backing up of evidence.
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: So what. It still does not say why adm. cost of defense is lower than that of insurer. Why do you dodge the question? The cost structure of any industry is different. What you said does not support your argument. I guess you are just saying some nonsense without backing up of evidence.
: and feel good about it.
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 64 The second bill are better
I am not put a gun on your head
Cost of defense companies are comparable to insurance companies.
... too many of them in your posts, you can start with the ones I listed
and you can ask anyone if 'Say Chinese' is right in your context
you are welcome
there
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: Would you kindly point out more of my grammar mistakes since you said there
: are so many. I will gladly thank you for improving my English because
: English is important to me in my field.
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 65 Virginia 最近好像立法禁止政府强制本州居民买保险，一切只能自愿，要是巴马的医
保通过了不知道是该听谁的好，到时候估计一大堆官司都排好队等着了
退。
maintain
多。
，帮助一群消费者negotiate。好比我现在用的电力公司就是一个co-op，电费比以前便
宜不少。
【在 d****i 的大作中提到】
: 是这样的，最好每个州自己去搞一套自己认定行的，试验试验。麻省，加州愿意搞
: public option，自己搞，保守州愿意搞促进竞争制度，也可以尝试。试验一段时间再
: 下结论。
: 联邦政府大包办有违宪嫌疑，毕竟个人的医疗和interstate commerce扯上关系太牵强
: 。而且强制买保险象征人头税一样，加上联邦price control，怎么看也是历史的倒退。
: 要搞pool不能靠强制，而要有incentive，比如你从年轻健康时开始买保险，到你年纪
: 大的时候，你的plan要便宜一些，也就是要弄得financially make sense to maintain
: health insurance。如果你愿意到年纪大才开始买保险也可以，你的保险就要贵得多。
: 消费者个人去讨价还价也没必要，这种市场情况下，会有一些类似co-op的机构出现，帮助一群消费者negotiate。好比我现在用的电力公司就是一个co-op，电费比以前便宜不少。
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 66 I do not understand how I can speak Chinese to you in a bbs thread. I can
only say Chinese in a bbs post. Do you understand the difference between say
and speak? I can say Chinese but can NOT speak Chinese in a post. If my
understanding is wrong, would you kindly point out to me how I should say
Chinese "I write in Chinese in a post" in a correct way in an English
sentence.
Regarding the cost structure of different industries, we are talking about
the expense ratio of revenues generated by compa
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: The second bill are better
: I am not put a gun on your head
: Cost of defense companies are comparable to insurance companies.
: ... too many of them in your posts, you can start with the ones I listed
: and you can ask anyone if 'Say Chinese' is right in your context
: you are welcome
:
: there
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 67 I do have problem to read and write Chinese. I read and write English faster
than Chinese and understand English sentence better. I feel Chinese lacks
logic flow necessary for expressing idea clearly.
guess
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: you probably can't read Chinese anymore.... when/where did I say 'the cost
: of dense is lower'? I said '没有可比性‘, why is it so hard for you to
: understand?? comparing these 2 is like comparing apple and orange, haha
:
: of insurer. Why do you dodge the question? The cost structure of any
: industry is different. What you said does not support your argument. I guess
: you are just saying some nonsense without backing up of evidence.
|
d****i
发帖数: 4354 | 68 在非英语国家出生的华裔？
faster
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: I do have problem to read and write Chinese. I read and write English faster
: than Chinese and understand English sentence better. I feel Chinese lacks
: logic flow necessary for expressing idea clearly.
:
: guess
|
c**********d
发帖数: 2428 | 69 I don't think you can "speak" Chinese in a post, however, I don't think you
can "say" Chinese in a post either. For your own purpose, maybe you can "use
" Chinese in your post....?
BTW, you may reason better in English than in Chinese, but the way you are arguing "say" and "speak" is not convincing....
say
a
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: I do not understand how I can speak Chinese to you in a bbs thread. I can
: only say Chinese in a bbs post. Do you understand the difference between say
: and speak? I can say Chinese but can NOT speak Chinese in a post. If my
: understanding is wrong, would you kindly point out to me how I should say
: Chinese "I write in Chinese in a post" in a correct way in an English
: sentence.
: Regarding the cost structure of different industries, we are talking about
: the expense ratio of revenues generated by compa
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 70 we were not even talking about 'speak' or 'say' Chinese ' in a post'
her original quote " you should go back to China, most people say Chinese
there" is what I had problem with...
But it's obvious that she's already confused herself with her logic flow in
English, so I won't respond to any more of her argument
you
use
【在 c**********d 的大作中提到】
: I don't think you can "speak" Chinese in a post, however, I don't think you
: can "say" Chinese in a post either. For your own purpose, maybe you can "use
: " Chinese in your post....?
: BTW, you may reason better in English than in Chinese, but the way you are arguing "say" and "speak" is not convincing....
:
: say
: a
|
|
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 71 haha, that explains a lot
【在 d****i 的大作中提到】
: 在非英语国家出生的华裔？
:
: faster
|
A*****a
发帖数: 52743 | 72 哈哈, 在非英语的外国长大的华人. 还是你的说法更有趣
【在 d****i 的大作中提到】
: 在非英语国家出生的华裔？
:
: faster
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 73 I do not understand why people here are so picky to choose a word between say and speak. In my experience, it is commonly used in modem English by saying "say English". It it not wrong. I understand in strict English, most will say "speak" a language. For example, many ESL classes have name "See Say English" or books "Hear and Say English". Also many people here like to say more perfect (Bush said so in many his speeches), although in a strict grammar there is no comparative for perfect. But it
【在 c**********d 的大作中提到】
: I don't think you can "speak" Chinese in a post, however, I don't think you
: can "say" Chinese in a post either. For your own purpose, maybe you can "use
: " Chinese in your post....?
: BTW, you may reason better in English than in Chinese, but the way you are arguing "say" and "speak" is not convincing....
:
: say
: a
|
s*********g
发帖数: 182 | 74 So you were using modem English, no wonder...
Most people here only use router English, which is more advanced than modem
English, and faster too
say and speak. In my experience, it is commonly used in modem English by
saying "say English". It it not wrong. I understand in strict English, most
will say "speak"
a language. For example, many ESL classes have name "See Say English" or
books "Hear and Say English". Also many people here like to say more perfect
(Bush said so in many his speeches),
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: I do not understand why people here are so picky to choose a word between say and speak. In my experience, it is commonly used in modem English by saying "say English". It it not wrong. I understand in strict English, most will say "speak" a language. For example, many ESL classes have name "See Say English" or books "Hear and Say English". Also many people here like to say more perfect (Bush said so in many his speeches), although in a strict grammar there is no comparative for perfect. But it
|
A*****a
发帖数: 52743 | 75 You can say anything you like or you feel right. However, if you want to
talk to others, you'd better use the
language other people can understand.
say and speak. In my
experience, it is commonly used in modem English by saying "say English". It
it not wrong. I understand in
strict English, most will say "speak" a language. For example, many ESL
classes have name "See Say English" or
books "Hear and Say English". Also many people here like to say more perfect
(Bush said so in many his
speeches)
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: I do not understand why people here are so picky to choose a word between say and speak. In my experience, it is commonly used in modem English by saying "say English". It it not wrong. I understand in strict English, most will say "speak" a language. For example, many ESL classes have name "See Say English" or books "Hear and Say English". Also many people here like to say more perfect (Bush said so in many his speeches), although in a strict grammar there is no comparative for perfect. But it
|
s*********g
发帖数: 182 | 76 这位英语这么烂还自我感觉奇好，真是“信凤姐，得自信”啊，还让我想起以前认识的一个印度人，问我大家听不懂他说的话是不是因为他的口音比较British，笑得我满地找牙
It
perfect
【在 A*****a 的大作中提到】
: You can say anything you like or you feel right. However, if you want to
: talk to others, you'd better use the
: language other people can understand.
:
: say and speak. In my
: experience, it is commonly used in modem English by saying "say English". It
: it not wrong. I understand in
: strict English, most will say "speak" a language. For example, many ESL
: classes have name "See Say English" or
: books "Hear and Say English". Also many people here like to say more perfect
|
d****t
发帖数: 372 | 77 美国的医疗必须要改了, 已经无以为继, 其实随便抄袭任何一个发达国家的系统就行,
美国的系统太差了, 利益至上, 和医疗救人的宗旨是相背的, 是不适合私人经营的行业
, 就跟警察, 救火业一样, 应该全民统一. |
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 78 Are you sure you are qualified for judging y English? At least I am sure I
am much better than you or the guy named Mplus. Comparing apple and orange,
this is so laughable.
的一个印度人，问我大家听不懂他说的话是不是因为他的口音比较British，笑得我满
地找牙
【在 s*********g 的大作中提到】
: 这位英语这么烂还自我感觉奇好，真是“信凤姐，得自信”啊，还让我想起以前认识的一个印度人，问我大家听不懂他说的话是不是因为他的口音比较British，笑得我满地找牙
:
: It
: perfect
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 79 He, I guess you just speak chigless. How about the following book title "
Hear-Say English: The Kids Way to Learn". You think the book author is a
Chinese too? Please learn something new and not cling to your dead grammar.
you
use
arguing "say" and "speak" is not convincing....
【在 c**********d 的大作中提到】
: I don't think you can "speak" Chinese in a post, however, I don't think you
: can "say" Chinese in a post either. For your own purpose, maybe you can "use
: " Chinese in your post....?
: BTW, you may reason better in English than in Chinese, but the way you are arguing "say" and "speak" is not convincing....
:
: say
: a
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 80 If your guy want to show how great your English is, please reply my post in
English without editing. Otherwise, please shut up. It is very likely your
English is worse.
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: He, I guess you just speak chigless. How about the following book title "
: Hear-Say English: The Kids Way to Learn". You think the book author is a
: Chinese too? Please learn something new and not cling to your dead grammar.
:
: you
: use
: arguing "say" and "speak" is not convincing....
|
|
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 81 So you think your sentence is perfect too. I guess not.
you
use
arguing "say" and "speak" is not convincing....
【在 c**********d 的大作中提到】
: I don't think you can "speak" Chinese in a post, however, I don't think you
: can "say" Chinese in a post either. For your own purpose, maybe you can "use
: " Chinese in your post....?
: BTW, you may reason better in English than in Chinese, but the way you are arguing "say" and "speak" is not convincing....
:
: say
: a
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 82 Do you realize how many obvious grammar and broken sentences in your post?
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: The second bill are better
: I am not put a gun on your head
: Cost of defense companies are comparable to insurance companies.
: ... too many of them in your posts, you can start with the ones I listed
: and you can ask anyone if 'Say Chinese' is right in your context
: you are welcome
:
: there
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 83 Good morning
非英语国家出生的华裔 |
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 84 Another great example of perfect English writing. Do you have a mirror?
It
perfect
【在 A*****a 的大作中提到】
: You can say anything you like or you feel right. However, if you want to
: talk to others, you'd better use the
: language other people can understand.
:
: say and speak. In my
: experience, it is commonly used in modem English by saying "say English". It
: it not wrong. I understand in
: strict English, most will say "speak" a language. For example, many ESL
: classes have name "See Say English" or
: books "Hear and Say English". Also many people here like to say more perfect
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 85 ha, you said my English is bad. How about yourselves. Can you write more?
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: Good morning
: 非英语国家出生的华裔
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 86
sure
your English is bad
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: ha, you said my English is bad. How about yourselves. Can you write more?
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 87 I am so glad you finally realized ... because I copied those from what you
wrote, haha
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: Do you realize how many obvious grammar and broken sentences in your post?
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 88 BTW, I never said mine was good, I was just trying to tell you how bad yours
was
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: ha, you said my English is bad. How about yourselves. Can you write more?
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 89 I wonder where you copy "compare apple and orange".
【在 m***s 的大作中提到】
: I am so glad you finally realized ... because I copied those from what you
: wrote, haha
|
m***s
发帖数: 1094 | 90 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22compare+apple+and+orange%22&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=
FYI
It's been very entertaining talking with you
Now I will stop and let you do your own homework
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: I wonder where you copy "compare apple and orange".
|
|
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 91 你是看不懂中文还是看不懂英文啊? 我都说了preexisting considiton是要保的,但保
的费用肯定是和没有preexisting condition的人不同. 你摘要里面根本没有讲到这个.
你ｓｐｅｅｄｉｎｇ ｔｉｃｋｅｔ很多张，去买车辆保险，保险公司就不卖给你保险
了？
打回去重写．
majority
of
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: A Time Magazine-Abt SRBI poll in late July 2009 found that a large majority
: of Americans (80%) favored a requirement that insurance companies insure
: people even if they suffer from pre-existing conditions.[1]
: In September 2009, the monthly Kaiser Health Tracking Poll report said:
: The public’s most unanimous and bipartisan support is saved for a
: proposal to have the federal government require that health insurance
: companies cover anyone who applies, even if they have a pre-existing
: condition.
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 92 你举的军工和医疗保险根本没有可比性．
前面的人已经说了，保险公司的钱不是收保费就行了， 主要是拿收到的保费去投资．
否则根本不够付那些费用的.你真的不懂就别瞎掺和了.
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: Is this a English board? Is this website in America? If you feel depressed
: to say or read English, you can go back to China. Most people say Chinese
: there. Why do I care your feelings. If you do not like my posts, please do
: not read them. I am not put a gun on your head to reply my posts.
: Again, do you have evidence that adm. costs in denfense are higher than in
: insurers? Do you do any research before posting or just listing some
: nonsense.
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 93 现在那个麻省不就是民主党的program的pilot嘛? 你看麻省搞的如何?
【在 B*D 的大作中提到】
: 如果让消费者对医疗服务来讨价还价，也是很困难的我认为
: 渐进的改革其实不错，但是就像你说的GOP掌权的时候没有动掉TORT
: obama又搞大跃进，都令人不满
: 现在最好的情况是上一堆pilot programe，看看到底怎么样来控制住开销
: 有效控制开销后，再搞全民健保不迟
: 但是有人说不增大pool，开销下不来
: 我觉得，在目前的这个pool下面能把开销控制住，那么再搞全民大pool后
: 才更有希望降低医疗成本
:
: account
|
s*********g
发帖数: 182 | 94 她是属于英文没学好中文也忘记差不多但是还特爱显摆英文的那种，参见芙蓉/凤姐心态
个.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 你是看不懂中文还是看不懂英文啊? 我都说了preexisting considiton是要保的,但保
: 的费用肯定是和没有preexisting condition的人不同. 你摘要里面根本没有讲到这个.
: 你ｓｐｅｅｄｉｎｇ ｔｉｃｋｅｔ很多张，去买车辆保险，保险公司就不卖给你保险
: 了？
: 打回去重写．
:
: majority
: of
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 95 算了吧, 你这个破英文真的别出来现了. 我这么差的英文都知道要说 who says 而不是
who say. 这个好像是4级英文的考点吧.
还是说别人在toef阶段. 你toefl阶段还没有到呢.
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: so you still in the stage of Tofel. There is no problem to say Chinese or
: speak Chinese. your level of English sucks. Who say that we can not say
: Chinese. I guess you do not have any understanding between say and speak.
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 96 呵呵, 那位英文差的真的不是一点半点的. 来, 那位啊, 你说说你toefl和GRE当初考了
多少?
【在 d****i 的大作中提到】
: 在非英语国家出生的华裔？
:
: faster
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 97 老兄, 学点美国历史吧, 美国警察制度也不是全国统一的. Sheriff是当地选出来滴.
,
【在 d****t 的大作中提到】
: 美国的医疗必须要改了, 已经无以为继, 其实随便抄袭任何一个发达国家的系统就行,
: 美国的系统太差了, 利益至上, 和医疗救人的宗旨是相背的, 是不适合私人经营的行业
: , 就跟警察, 救火业一样, 应该全民统一.
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 98 傻x逻辑, 别人指出你英文其实很烂,你就反驳别人说"你以为你的英文是perfect?".这
种讲法早就臭大街了.
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: So you think your sentence is perfect too. I guess not.
:
: you
: use
: arguing "say" and "speak" is not convincing....
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j*****s
发帖数: 529 | 99 药厂，医院，都挣了好多钱。那个所谓的ppo network access就是医院黑钱的很好证据
。但是为什么the evil insurance company变成众矢之的呢？很简单，保险公司是
messenger.
保险公司是for-profit没错，但是起码还有incentive去让运作更效率，如果都变成国营的了，那效率可想而知。看个脚气能等两年，心脏搭桥能等两年吗？
soaring
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: But why cause 高医疗费用??
: You need to think about it as well!
: The reasons for the high medical cost, I think, are
: 1. Insurance company charge a lot for the hospitals because of the medical
: lawsuits has not compensation limit
: 2. A large amount of money was used for legal fee for the hospital and the
: insurance company
: 3. Insurance company are for-profit organizations. Their profits are soaring
: over the sky even in this tough economic situation.
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j*****s
发帖数: 529 | 100 你知道多少人就是吃这个每个州各自为政吗？insurance, workers comp，每个州条例
都不一样，多少保险公司系统要不断更新这些倒霉的政府标准，好多小公司专门干这个
，吃这个。多么不效率？
退。
maintain
多。
，帮助一群消费者negotiate。好比我现在用的电力公司就是一个co-op，电费比以前便
宜不少。
【在 d****i 的大作中提到】
: 是这样的，最好每个州自己去搞一套自己认定行的，试验试验。麻省，加州愿意搞
: public option，自己搞，保守州愿意搞促进竞争制度，也可以尝试。试验一段时间再
: 下结论。
: 联邦政府大包办有违宪嫌疑，毕竟个人的医疗和interstate commerce扯上关系太牵强
: 。而且强制买保险象征人头税一样，加上联邦price control，怎么看也是历史的倒退。
: 要搞pool不能靠强制，而要有incentive，比如你从年轻健康时开始买保险，到你年纪
: 大的时候，你的plan要便宜一些，也就是要弄得financially make sense to maintain
: health insurance。如果你愿意到年纪大才开始买保险也可以，你的保险就要贵得多。
: 消费者个人去讨价还价也没必要，这种市场情况下，会有一些类似co-op的机构出现，帮助一群消费者negotiate。好比我现在用的电力公司就是一个co-op，电费比以前便宜不少。
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j*****s
发帖数: 529 | 101 请问，抄谁呢？英国？加拿大？新加坡？没一个好的。
保险其实实质上应该分两个部分，一般的basic medical coverage，感冒啊，检查身体
啊，这些算是福利，可以让政府管，税收出。另外一部分是大病，这个就有一半保险，
降低风险的成分了，这部分用私营公司来管理，其实比较合理。
要我说，应该一人一个帐号，都花自己的，别老想着dip into someone else' pocket.
,
【在 d****t 的大作中提到】
: 美国的医疗必须要改了, 已经无以为继, 其实随便抄袭任何一个发达国家的系统就行,
: 美国的系统太差了, 利益至上, 和医疗救人的宗旨是相背的, 是不适合私人经营的行业
: , 就跟警察, 救火业一样, 应该全民统一.
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 102 哈哈， 一人一个账号也没有用啊，黑鬼们钱用多了自己不够怎么办？还是要政府出．
政府的钱还是从你那里拿的．
pocket.
【在 j*****s 的大作中提到】
: 请问，抄谁呢？英国？加拿大？新加坡？没一个好的。
: 保险其实实质上应该分两个部分，一般的basic medical coverage，感冒啊，检查身体
: 啊，这些算是福利，可以让政府管，税收出。另外一部分是大病，这个就有一半保险，
: 降低风险的成分了，这部分用私营公司来管理，其实比较合理。
: 要我说，应该一人一个帐号，都花自己的，别老想着dip into someone else' pocket.
:
: ,
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c**********d
发帖数: 2428 | 103 You are missing the point. You made an argument that you "can not speak
English in a post", while you think you can "say English in a post". The
focus here is not say or speak, it is "in a post". My point is that you can do neither "in a post", regardless if it is "speak" or "say". Got it?
I am not picky about your English at all. To be quite honest, I don't even
care. It is your logic that has problem.
say and speak. In my experience, it is commonly used in modem English by
saying "say English
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: I do not understand why people here are so picky to choose a word between say and speak. In my experience, it is commonly used in modem English by saying "say English". It it not wrong. I understand in strict English, most will say "speak" a language. For example, many ESL classes have name "See Say English" or books "Hear and Say English". Also many people here like to say more perfect (Bush said so in many his speeches), although in a strict grammar there is no comparative for perfect. But it
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