q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 1 这牌SLOW PLAY INDUCE BLUFF没什么问题。
关键是RIVER SHOVE的READ。他以前是否有RIVER SHOVE BLUFF很重要。
根据哥的血泪经验，符合以下2点的情况下DONK十有八九是真有NUTS，不管LINE有多奇
怪：
1.RIVER SHOVE。
2.SHOVE SIZE和前两轮他的BET SIZE不成比例。
注意，这里RIVER一定要是SHOVE。对于DONK，我碰到过好几个RIVER POT SIZE BET 哪
怕 OVERBET 经常会是BLUFF，但对同一个DONK，他超大的 RIVER SHOVE 十有八九是有
牌。
举两个例子：
1. FLOP TURN 我CH-C 两轮with middle pair, 他每次下注大概都是20，RIVER HIT
TRIP，哥CH,打算RAISE。DONK 直接1K SHOVE,哥顿时傻眼。我也差不多1K，想了半天还
是CALL了。他TOP BOAT。
2. DONK PREFLOP 3-BET OOP, 哥AJs,CALL. FLOP C-BET HALF,40左右，哥CALL with
TPTK。... 阅读全帖 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 2 River is a tough decision after check call turn. It is true. You really
need to have a good read to make the decision for check folding or check
calling river. If like you said "loose donk may choose to shove river with
most of his range", then our decision becomes easy--close you eyes and call.
There are a lot of factor needs to be considered at river, such as " does
he turn pocket 6s into a bluff by shoving river?", "does he 2 barrel bluff
complete air on turn and river?", "does bobo's ... 阅读全帖 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 3 自己打得臭，turn上面slow play不raise，miss value，donk allin 75块 river，你
还去snap call，其实你是更大的donk
--哈哈
数据只是参考,因为很多的情况下,对手数据还是处于一个很宽的中间带,死套数据会死
很惨.当然,数据太离谱就另当别论了,比如vpip 80, pfr 35, 3bet 5, AF 10, flop
donk bet 50 , wssd小于30,之类的.
哥通常采取看数据+历史记录+头标的方式,十有八九能估摸出对手的范围和tendency.
象这手牌,哥估计对手数据应该已经很难看了,然后flop和turn上的两barrel,有太多手
牌落后于老湿,如果对手river cbet或者历史上3barrel的数据也很高,哥大概也会在绝
大多数情况下平call turn.
至于river么,虽然size看上去有些危险,但是这张q实在是有太高的%是张blank,这就是
river 用1对2的比例call的理由.
哥目前还在学习阶段,如有错误,欢迎指正 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 4 but donks are rare these days. no one can afford losing all the time.
i totally believe poker was really easy $$ back in 2005.
with straight draw.. donk"
shove with top pair J." |
|
g*********o
发帖数: 1 | 5 自己打得臭，turn上面slow play不raise，miss value，donk allin 75块 river，你
还去snap call，其实你是更大的donk |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 1/2NL, very passive tight table.
dealt the poor AsAc at MP ($200). got the same hand an hour ago, bet $12, no
callers.
let's try something different this time, $7, a pot builder. indeed, 5 callers,
not good.
flop was not too bad: 2s3dTs, UTG ($1200) bet $15 (he probe bet a
lot, and i knew i didn't need to worry about him). well, time to net and
finish, raised $50 on top. button called (he's a river lucky guy, $300). SB,
who checked, now suddenly moved all-in ($200). UTG folded. AND I, THE DONK, |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 7 It is 35000garantee, the 1st is 8600$
not very small though
Just mdat is donk |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 8 button reraise 9 X on 3X open EP. I had to fold pre.
EP reraise to 20X. button calls. after flop button called 2 pot size bets
until turn all in... he cost me at least 15$ for raising with shit.
Damn donks |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 9 I love them. they are the reason why we win stacks here and there.
actually preflop AK guy played ok. What do you expect him to do? flat AK out of position vs 4 guy in the pot already? that is worse than folding it preflop.
It just happened that the other donk can't lay down his connector and hit jackpot. it should be an easy lay down for him when his c bet was raised all in. Actually i wouldn't even blame him if he check fold after flop. |
|
k***n
发帖数: 849 | 10 I don't think AK player's preflop raise is bad. In fact if I was up against
"donks" you describe I'd raise it bigger with AK. His raise is only about
pot-sized. |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 11 change the title to "昨晚被EURO donk 蹂躏的悲惨经历" 就有希望了。 en.. |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 12 Check for value vs donks...
=========================================================
Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -
Hero (UTG): $238.55
UTG+1: $133.10
UTG+2: $108.85
MP1: $70.65
MP2: $83.15
CO: $39.00
BTN: $482.15
SB: $119.00
BB: $49.20
Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with Qd Ac
Hero raises to $3, UTG+1 calls $3, 7 folds
Flop: ($7.50) 7s 2d Ad (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $6, Hero calls $6
Turn: ($19.50) 6c (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks
River: ($19.50) Th (... 阅读全帖 |
|
B*********s
发帖数: 4158 | 13 在25nl一会就输掉了400个bb，river all in都fold不掉A high, turn all in fold不掉
straight draw.果断move up到50nl，donk了几把又全赢回来了 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 14 Turn out he has KK. so i guess it is reasonable. I called that smallish donk bet to induce spazz from the late position because the board is so safe. I was happy to get it in with that board
==================================================
Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -
UTG: $39.85
UTG+1: $473.10
Hero (UTG+2): $108.10
MP1: $50.80
MP2: $97.55
CO: $139.40
BTN: $123.25
SB: $107.85
BB: $153.90
Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG+2 with Ad Ac
UTG raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero raises... 阅读全帖 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 it is so easy with notes. just let him commit himself with shit and shove~~
Note for this villian before the hand--"raise flop and 3 bet get it in with straight draw.. donk"
New notes--"limp call J10s and miniraise flop and almost pot turn and call shove with top pair J."
Just hope he comes to my table more often~~~
========================================
Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -
CO: $106.05
Hero (BTN): $103.50
SB: $145.05
BB: $100.30
UTG: $152.75
UTG+1: $193.90
... 阅读全帖 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 16 i feel the whole poker player pool is just drying out, even worse than 2
years ago (let alone pre UIGEA):
1) the deposit/withdrawal is still a big hassle after they stoppped u.s.
credit card processing, and FBI is catching their e-check middle processors.
after all, u.s. is still the #1 donk pool, far ahead of others;
2) the remaining players are either getting better or busted forever. like
the TJo guy with your AA, yes, he may have done that before, and did it
again this time. but do you reall... 阅读全帖 |
|
g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 17 Playing with those bad stats fish/donk, although I have the third nuts, need
put all money in...
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (9 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool
from http://www.flopturnriver.com
MP2 ($242.35)
MP3 ($200)
CO ($539.05)
Button ($501.20)
SB ($526.90)
BB ($227)
UTG ($152.60)
Hero (UTG+1) ($444.65)
MP1 ($251.80)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Ac, As
1 fold, Hero bets $7, 2 folds, MP3 calls $7, 1 fold, Button calls $7, SB
calls $6, 1 fold
Flop: ($30) 8s, 8d, Js (4 players)
SB ch... 阅读全帖 |
|
g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 18 Sorry he had 78 and I lost, typo :). don't even want to fold AK here. Lol..
. Guess I am kind of donk here |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 19 Donk can't always get lucky.. Their money is ours sooner or later.
===========================
Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -
Hero (MP2): $130.55
CO: $108.40
BTN: $116.45
SB: $97.30
BB: $66.00
UTG: $327.60
UTG+1: $109.65
UTG+2: $72.90
MP1: $121.10
Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is MP2 with Ad Ac
4 folds, Hero raises to $3, CO raises to $10.50, 3 folds, Hero raises to $26
, CO requests TIME, CO calls $15.50
Flop: ($53.50) 7h Ts 4d (2 players)
Hero bets $26, CO calls $26
Turn: ($1... 阅读全帖 |
|
c****1
发帖数: 457 | 20 why do you like post other's donk move so much?
come on, post some more interesting hands |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 21 how about this one?
donk was like "you like my money? take the rest of it" I was like "thanks
for the Benjamins, fish"
=================================
Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -
SB: $79.00
BB: $101.05
Hero (UTG): $104.95
UTG+1: $104.15
UTG+2: $103.50
MP1: $208.15
MP2: $225.85
CO: $106.30
BTN: $46.70
Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with Ah Kc
Hero raises to $3, 6 folds, SB calls $2.50, 1 fold
Flop: ($7.00) Qs Jc Th (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, SB calls $4
Turn... 阅读全帖 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 22 how about my donk move?
===================
Full Tilt Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -
SB: $244.90
BB: $247.45
UTG: $187.15
UTG+1: $100.00
UTG+2: $99.20
MP1: $76.90
MP2: $29.50
CO: $89.45
Hero (BTN): $100.00
Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with Qd Ac
6 folds, Hero raises to $3, SB raises to $10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $26, SB
calls $16
Flop: ($53.00) 8c 3d 7h (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $29.00, SB calls $29
Turn: ($111.00) 8s (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $45.00, SB folds
Final... 阅读全帖 |
|
s*l
发帖数: 182 | 23 strong agree.......
like last year day6 or day7 during main event, rob pisano lost a huge pot
with AK against duhamel 45 suited. But it is not that insane like the 巴西
donk with 35 suited, since duhamel made the wheel on the turn with a open
ended draw........ |
|
p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 24 在3x turbo卫星赛上一直limp/call all in，全是些K7o/A4o/J5s/85s之类的垃圾，但
是每次都能suck out，或者是spike an ace/king，或者是hit flush/2 pairs.最后在
hh replayer上查了一下，我rebuy了14次，多数都是给这个Russian donk的。tnnd，怪
不得前段时间2p2上有人问russian version的ftp是不是没有fold button。 |
|
c******q
发帖数: 456 | 25 还是那句老话, 各取所需. 你赚了钱, donk 们过了瘾. |
|
s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 26 这人是donk，LP raise 好像60-70，而且postflop喜欢call+乱raise
我个人认为是low pocket pair不太喜欢在oop flat
low pocket pair在turn上还check/call?
call for set farming. hit 到,就是full value.
are close) 会比较好. |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 27
betting
on
I think the precondition is that, villain is a LOOSE DONK, he could have 7
22 or jj+ but it is just a very small portion of his range. So basically
turn check call is still close.
I kinda agree with MM LAO SHI, after 2nd barrel got called, usually the pot
is not urs anymore. |
|
p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 28 I think the turn check/fold or betting/jamming is close, but hate to check
/call with 44 there and face a really tough decision on the river,
especially loose donk may choose to shove river with most of his range.
But I do agree with teacher MM that flat calling preflop is better option
against villian who do not fold to preflop 3 bet much.
pot |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 29 Open shove turn leaves donks no bluffing range and leave yourself 2 outs
when called. What do you expect to fold out? what do you expect to get called?
open shove
i
fold |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 30 对手的wssd、三条街的af和flop donk bet％是多少啊 |
|
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 32 D 神很厉害,两张Q 分析得很精彩. 这张river Q 不光是白板,其实还增强了我们的牌.
A6, A9 都被forfeit 了. 他donk flop 的成牌只省下. 99 和 66, AQ (AQ probably
raise preflop). 而且两张Q 他有Q的概率也减少了. 这牌他river check 我肯定也
是要shove for value. 其它random bluff, 根据我flop, turn 的weak line. 这驴肯
定是要狗急跳墙shove 的． |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 33 Qing 兄不用HUD 吧。 看看HUD 数据其实会有更多tell. Donk flop %, flop, turn,
river AGR %, % to showdown, %winning at shown down. open limp % at EP. 有
这些数据对手是鱼是驴一目了然
不过read 再好对方也可能是nuts. It is never 100%.
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 34 1/2NL, very passive tight table.
dealt the poor AsAc at MP ($200). got the same hand an hour ago, bet $12, no
callers.
let's try something different this time, $7, a pot builder. indeed, 5 callers,
not good.
flop was not too bad: 2s3dTs, UTG ($1200) bet $15 (he probe bet a
lot, and i knew i didn't need to worry about him). well, time to net and
finish, raised $50 on top. button called (he's a river lucky guy, $300). SB,
who checked, now suddenly moved all-in ($200). UTG folded. AND I, THE DONK, |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 35 It is 35000garantee, the 1st is 8600$
not very small though
Just mdat is donk |
|
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 36 来
free 我donk donk donk, 哇,river 1outer suck out, 居然赢了
micro 我donk donk donk
medium 我donk donk donk donk
large 我还是donk donk donk
main event, donk donk dddddddddddddddddddddddonk
that's how to become a WSOP ME CHAMPION |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 37 讲两手搞笑的牌。。
there is a chinese guy sitting across the table.
preflop couple limpers, donk raise to 12$, he raise almost every other hand.
Flop A5J rainbow..
donk lead 20$, chinese check calls calls. pot is probably around 70$
turn is another A.
chinese check, donk bets 7$ chinese miniraise to 14, donk reraise to 55$.
chinese calls.
river is a 2.
chinese checks, donk goes 130$, with probably 70$ left. chinese all in.
donk fold ~~~~ chinese shows a 2 (of course he has A2).... donk does not even ha... 阅读全帖 |
|
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 38 人生有完整了一次。
Sands nl 2/5, action is loose and fast.
买了 300 上桌，donk 刚 lose whole stack: preflop $40, 两家 call, flop 全方片
， donk bet 200 into $120 pot, 被人 check raise all-in，donk instant call,
他一对 QQ , 没有方片，人家flop flush, 他 drawing dead . donk 开始 on tilt ,
骂人， 又买了 700, 然后我就悲剧了。
一lag raise 40, donk call, 我有位置， KQo , 决定也 call， flop K, 9, 5
rainbow, Lag bet 120, donk instant call, 我觉得我应该是 best hand, 虽然牌不
是很强，但决定 rasie 还是正确的打法。
我 shove 300, lag 想很久 fold , donk instant call , 我觉得苗头不对。
两人翻牌，donk 很不情愿的 show 4... 阅读全帖 |
|
c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 39 Just check to the raiser。你这个牌基本上没有在flop上donk bet的必要。AJJ这样
的平庸牌OOP重要的是pot control，而不是protect your hand。敌人的read很准。这
种牌面你有真正的强牌一般会check raise，或者check call the flop and donk bet
the turn。
你donk bet的结果就是被人raise把pot做大，然后turn上面对重注你就慢慢猜吧。你凭
什么就觉得他一定没有东西，难道他QQ/KK/AA不会bet $60 into a $84 pot? 且不说60
into 84根本不算overbet感你走。有一定水平的bluffer都不会干出value bet small and
bluff bet big的傻事。他们会value bet big来protect他们的bluff。
我个人觉得donk bet很少是正确的。以下三种情况除外。
1 敌人weak passive。 几乎不bluff。这是你可以donk bet for value, and fold to
a rais... 阅读全帖 |
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 40 ☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
player (Hope is the best thing) 于 (Sun Nov 13 17:40:20 2011, 美东) 提到:
继续提高版上人气，也许老大可以搞个有奖征文，
大家说说自己得意的bluff，要把bluff 的思路讲清楚。 然后大家投票，得票最多者
奖励30 个包子。
当然，也后也可以讲best laydown，best thin value bet 一类，但俺觉得还是best
bluff 最刺激。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
nanpa (nanpa) 于 (Sun Nov 13 18:11:42 2011, 美东) 提到:
算不上最好的bluff，但还是很刺激，上周末的home game， 1/2
EP, raise to $7，CO call, button call，
hero SM 35o
$7 在这个桌上是个比较小的raise,后面两个limp应该也只是中/小对或SC之类的牌... 阅读全帖 |
|
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 41 别争了...
所谓donk bet, 是说, 你不是preflop raiser, 然后你lead bet oos,
这个名字的由来是因为donk往往喜欢这么打, 所以后来默认了这个bet就是donk bet,
好像是2+2上面开始的. 这个并不代表每次这么bet都是donk行为,也不代表bet的人就是
donk
你们2个太敏感了...
few
my
nice |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 42 definitely raise with KQ on the flop with the stack size. There are so many hands in hero's donking range that would just go raise raise all in.
Will he raise with AQ. I don't know. He probably could with that donking sizing. But I really doubt he would with a 3 way pot here. Remember this is a 3 way pot, J109 is such a scary board, it hits a lot of sb and hero's range with 2 pair and sets. Why does he want to raise himself out of pot with position and relatively deep stack? He also can stack ... 阅读全帖 |
|
p******e
发帖数: 327 | 43 刚上桌不久，flop了K high flush，桌上一小孩也flop了flush。。。(此处省略n字）
，他river了straigt flush。。。nnd。心想这也太tmd lucky了。
他一走，桌上其他人说，这小孩刚miss了一个bad beat jackpot：
1/2 table, 小孩手里拿TT，board TT987四张同花，donk在river way over bet all
in ~$500, pot大概才$100。小孩也有差不多$500。donk只要一张同花J或6就straigt
flush。小孩想了半天，fold了四条十！！！
结果donk是JQ同花！！！ table missed the $300K bad beat jackpot。
桌上人把donk骂死了，donk被骂走了。。。
我的K high flush就算给小孩的一点弥补吧。。。 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 44 1 5.5+5+5
2(0815) 11+10+10
3(8203) 11 $26.22
4(4529) 3.3
5 11
6(7995) 11
7(9995) 11+10+10
8(399) 3.3+3+3
1, late registered, did notice it is a turbo. I only have 5bb on big blind
with QTo, shove and lost. Double re-buy, 10bb on small blind with KQs, shove
, knockout. 迅雷不及掩耳盗铃啊 ~_~b
2, kinda run good at beginning, 2 sets cleared 2 overplay guys. Is today my
SET day?lol, 66 flat at btn and hit another set, cleared a donk's combo draw
. 2 hours lat... 阅读全帖 |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 45 第2点是player 的特点。
这个包括thinking level，player level和每个player各自的特点。
最简单的运用，拿到AA，对低水平的player，你可以preflop 3bet他，他拿到一小对也
可能和你allin。对reg就是call他的open更好一点。
现在你拿到AA，preflop 3bet对手call，flop你C-bet 对手raise，你如何判断自己牌
力是不是落后？
一个最基本的办法，就是看对手的level。如果的对手是鱼，他不明白你可能是big
pair，你就要跟他打到底。这时对手虽然也有两对以上的可能，但更大可能是顶对甚至
中对。
如果对手是reg，他很清楚你可能有大对，那就要认真考虑自己可能是落后了。因为这
里还牵涉bluff的问题。应该说碰上reg在flop上raise你的AA，1.他也是大对（这个可
能比较小）。2.bluff
。3.你落后。
基本上如果碰一个solid reg在flop上raise你的AA，fold AA更好。
看看这个牌例中对手拿顶对raise lz的bet后遇到reraise，他应该如何判断？
http://w... 阅读全帖 |
|
p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 46 balancing your donk bet range is important in HU play. Donk bet is a lot
cheaper then check/raise bluff. but you do want to donk bet strong hand/
nuts sometime to make your opp think. Durrr is a master of donk bet.
nothing
2 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 47 hand 2, no brain shove with 100bb headsup. only 6 hands can beat you
hand 4, if it is an extreme lag table, i would raise more or limp/3bet in EP
. Since your stack is not deep, without special read, the call is OK. It is
just doomed.
hand 3, ed's book asks us to commit tptk+ with 100bb or so. If your stack is
getting deep, things gonna change drastically. basically, I say, hands
strength matches pot size, if villain is a donk, let donk donk, hehe, over
pushing donk is not profitable at all. |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 48 那天看了这帖没回，不过一直在想这里check turn后river bet bluff 到底好不好，
我觉得看人,看history， 如果对手玩得很差，基本读牌都不懂，我觉得可行。 对手稍
微会打点和读牌，我觉得不好，对手这里有个pair 都会叫的可能挺大的。这里有
position check turn 后，其实是把自己所有强牌的range 都check 没了。 我还是倾
向于bet turn, bluff most river. 对手这个turn 上在flop close action 的清况下
check, 也把自己的强牌都check 光了， 相反，我们在有位置的情况下， 因为筹码太
深，几乎所有强牌都可以在flop 上flat, 然后reraise/push turn。 所以在这种清况
下我们是可以bluff turn and river的, 如果都是blank。
这周末打牌抓了几个bluff, 我觉得对手在选择bluff 的spot 很不好。 特别是一些打
得还可以的对手, 可能平时和weak tight不会读牌的人打多了，乱bluff.
有一手牌，
我在sb comple... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 49 呵呵，昨天打了一点1/2，还不错，就输了一把，QQ flopped top set，让毛驴伊朗医
生river给gutshot broadway suck out了，不过也扯平，之前俺AsQs，在QJxxA，搞死
了他的KK。
几把key hands：
1) Q6s，flopped trash top 2， check raise big against donk doctor, he calls,
turn 4 with a backdoor flush draw, i shove $150 he snap calls, river
completes flush, damn, but he holds Q4.
2) AA, UTG, small bet $10, doctor raises to $20, 2 callers, i decide to play
tricky once, flat call.
flop J83 rainbow, i check, doctor bets $40, all fold to me, i donk shove $
300... counti... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 50 1 3K 1R/1A 11 + 10 + 10
2 3K 1R/1A 60 + 55 + 55
3 2K 22
4 3K Turbo 1R/1A 44 + 40
5 4K R/1A 11 + 10 + 10
6 4.5K 33
哥觉得自己是属青蛙的：
1号，11bb a5o在UTG推没人接。k9o，小盲位3bet shove 11bb，CL kq call，挂
3 号，庄家位15bb AQo 3bb open，小盲flat，flop 84Jr cbet ½/call了小盲位
橙色玩家的raise shove，对方亮出 83s and hold（好吧），挂
6 号，AKo 4bet shove to 50bb jj，输到只剩10bb。大盲位用a4o 9bb squeeze 一个
松哥ep 2bb的open以及后面一群松哥flat的4-way的pot，庄家位平call/reshove with
ATs，CO玩家，用... 阅读全帖 |
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