f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 1 ok, yes, after a long break, i played a session last night, lol.
1) hand 1, limping table, EP raises to $6, and 5 callers, i call on cutoff
with 9To.
flop: QhJh8.
EP c-bets $20, all fold, i call.
turn: J
EP bets $45, interesting size with his pre-flop and flop action, i call.
river: blank 2 (busted any flush draws)
EP bets $80 with $30 left, strong all the way on 3 streets (let's ignore pre
-flop $6 as nothing but a pot sweetner).
i tank, not acting but seriously wonder if he has a turned boat, anyway, $80
or $110 doesn't make any diff here, so i push him all-in. i ask him, "well,
show me a boat or i'll take it".
he happily turns over QQ, well disguised pre-flop raise and he got my number
, lol.
2) a few rounds later, again, family pot.
flop: A85 rainbow.
same EP guy bets $15 into a $16 pot, all fold to me, well, no more suspense
as HU, i pop up to $45, he calls.
turn: 6 (completes only gutshots)
he suddenly bets out $50, i happily shove $175 on top, he snap calls and
proudly says "two pair", 68o.
lol, dude, do you really think i would raise on flop and shove on turn
without any hand that beats this trash two pair hand?
"sorry but you're drawing dead", i turn over 88.
3) EP got busted soon after this, and his $750 stack vanishes.
here comes a young british 2/5 player, with well over $1K stack. he's super
loose aggressive (SLAG). he raises every pot preflop to $25, most of time
without even looking at his hand.
in one hand, he builds a pot to $200 on the turn, and pushes another $200
against another old tight player on Q83-4, and most importantly, he still
hasn't looked at his hand! lol.
the old man is not bad but he sadly turns over J8, only a middle pair.
apparently he got offended by recent hands, and that's how he got into this
$200 pot with that trash, and now an even tougher decision.
well, i know, he'd muck, hehe.
SLAG goes on to bully everyone like this for another round and now he's
basically playing against the whole table, which of course is his worst
situation.
soon he doubles two medium stacks, and loses $500.
4) then comes this hand, i limp on button, only SB and him (BB).
flop: Ks4h8h
he bets out $15, i call, with position, you're my dinner.
turn: Kh
he bets $35, i call.
river: 4s
he quickly moves out $110, the typical "you cannot call" move.
the whole table including dealer (she used to be a full-time player in AC)
are looking in sympathy at me, "sigh, haven't you figured out this guy yet?"
i tank and then say, "let's double it for $220".
he instantly mucks his hand and leaves the table.
"what do you have?" they all feel relaxed now after the tension is over.
"only A high, and i thought he might call if i shove ($350)", i reply.
well, of course it's a lie, you all should know what the x is in my Ax hand,
right? hehe.
as a donk, i wish i could play A2o this way with good read.
5) straddled pot, i call at LP with 8d9d, tight guy next to me raises to $18, i'm
about to fold but after 5 guys all call, i feel i'm all right to join for another
$14 only.
flop: 5s6s7s, oh yeah.
MP old tight guy bets $60, this size only tells me one thing, he got a stong made
hand. with tighter LP after me, i instantly muck my trash straight.
LP calmly calls, not even surprises me at all.
turn: blank.
MP apparently shows his weak side, bets an odd number of $49 into a $200+ pot, LP
calls.
river: Js.
MP bets another $60 with $100 left (sorry, i have to laugh), tight LP turns over
AsAc and says "call".
sometimes you really have to wonder what the hell has just happened because LP
says "well, there might be a straight flush out there..."
MP sadly turns over 77. | s*********r
发帖数: 4210 | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 3 no, DE park.
it's the best poker room in this area, if we don't count AC.
1) the management there did a great job in promoting their room:
http://www.delawarepark.com/poker_promotions.php
now they got 2 20-table-each areas just for poker, one for tournaments and
one for cash. you can play SNGs for as low as $20 or MTTs. cash games they
offer 2/4L, 1/2NL, 2/5NL, sometimes 5/10NL, and a few PLO tables. on
weekends, you can always find plenty of action. before you go, you can
always find how's everything checking live report at:
http://www.delawarepark.com/poker/index.php
2) it's at a better location than WV (like a remote corner place), right off
major highway 95 which attracts a lot of players from MD/VA/DC/PA/NJ. so
even if you play early in the morning (slowest time in a day), you can still
find games and not worry about no more players coming;
3) i hate the $12/hr session fee at WV, come on, for a regular 6-hr session,
we'd have to pay $72 no matter what, which is some -EV thing for low stake
players.
【在 s*********r 的大作中提到】
: at WV?
| D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 4 I think this is debatable....
"With tighter LP after me, i instantly muck my trash straight" | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 could be.
LP shows me quite some hands, he's a typical flush chaser with any A or
suited cards. his preflop raise (he has a problem not raising enough
sometimes) indicates a good hand QQ+. it's very likely he got As or Ks in
his hand and he won't go away easily.
as for MP, he doesn't realize he shows already too many hands unnecessarily.
he only bets that much for a monster like in another hand, he flops flush
with Ks9s alike and he does the same thing to punish As chaser.
so my hand has a good chance of drawing dead and cannot improve, when he
bets that much, we're talking about a full stack hand with 2 streets coming,
which i feel not worth it.
【在 D*A 的大作中提到】
: I think this is debatable....
: "With tighter LP after me, i instantly muck my trash straight"
| c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 6 What is the rake at DE Park? 10% the pot? Even the $12 hourly fee sounds
very cheap to me.
The damned casinos here at the bay area charged a fixed $5 rake for 1/3
games. That is 5 * 36 / 9 = $20 fee per person (They got shuffling machines
so they can deal >30 hands per hour). There is also a bad tradition here
that people tip the dealer even when they only win the blinds. People often
tip more than 5 dollars after they win a $200 pot. So the hourly cost is
actually >$25 with tips. I really admire myself that I managed to win $8000
in local casinos, especially given that I had been a consistent loser in FTP
cash games. I once believed that I can only play tournaments. Oh, well, I
guess that is still true since I still cannot even beat NL4 at Cake Poker. :
-) | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 10%, capped at $4.
yeah, maybe $12/hr is not as bad as i thought, or maybe i didn't realize it,
hehe.
because they can deal about 20+ hands/hr with machine. it used to be 13 when
they first opened and with a lot of new dealers. i remember 13 because one
dealer from another casino was laughing because at his own casino, he could
do 16 without machine. i noticed recently:
1) they might get rid of some slow/old dealers, and hire better ones;
2) they don't change decks/refill chips as often as in AC, which reduces
time delay.
most hands go to flop at least since loose passive players always limp and
call $12- raises no matter what. then a pot of $40+ is very likely or $4/
hand rake is normal.
if they deal, say, 25 hands/hr, 10 handed, it's about $10 "session fee"/
player anyway. and when they charge $4 cap, they'll do another $1 to the
badbeat jackpot, which to 99% of players, it's also a rake, lol.
$8000 from 1/3 is a good number, if you only play causually, hehe.
tips are different, with or without rake/session fee.
machines
often
8000
FTP
【在 c*****t 的大作中提到】
: What is the rake at DE Park? 10% the pot? Even the $12 hourly fee sounds
: very cheap to me.
: The damned casinos here at the bay area charged a fixed $5 rake for 1/3
: games. That is 5 * 36 / 9 = $20 fee per person (They got shuffling machines
: so they can deal >30 hands per hour). There is also a bad tradition here
: that people tip the dealer even when they only win the blinds. People often
: tip more than 5 dollars after they win a $200 pot. So the hourly cost is
: actually >$25 with tips. I really admire myself that I managed to win $8000
: in local casinos, especially given that I had been a consistent loser in FTP
: cash games. I once believed that I can only play tournaments. Oh, well, I
| p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 8 have not seen you post live play for long time. zan! Have not finished
reading all of them. Just share some of my thought with you now. maybe will
post more tomorrow.
for the 9t against Qs full hand, you may really think about folding on
the river if villian is a solid player. Think about his value betting range
on the river, can he really bet AA,KK, AQ that much? Maybe AJ, but nothing
else much that you can beat.
For the 98s hand that you flopped the str on the same suite board, I actually like your fold there although you did fold the winner. I agree with you on the thought on that hand.
pre
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: ok, yes, after a long break, i played a session last night, lol.
: 1) hand 1, limping table, EP raises to $6, and 5 callers, i call on cutoff
: with 9To.
: flop: QhJh8.
: EP c-bets $20, all fold, i call.
: turn: J
: EP bets $45, interesting size with his pre-flop and flop action, i call.
: river: blank 2 (busted any flush draws)
: EP bets $80 with $30 left, strong all the way on 3 streets (let's ignore pre
: -flop $6 as nothing but a pot sweetner).
| p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 9 Rake and tip is a big cost over long term if you play serious. Usually ,
the higher stake the game is, the lower tip that dealer get. I used to rail
commerce 20/40 NL game for a few times, most guys sat with more than 20k
stack, and lots of pot are couple of thousands, but I never see a single
player tip more than one buck no matter how big the pot is. But I see player
tip 100$ in 1-3 game.
Some dealers told me they got most tips from 1-3 or 2-5 game as well. Do
not be afraid to be called "cheap" when playing poker. These tip can really
kill you over long term. Remember our edge is not that big and we never
receive tip when we are losing.
it,
when
one
could
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 10%, capped at $4.
: yeah, maybe $12/hr is not as bad as i thought, or maybe i didn't realize it,
: hehe.
: because they can deal about 20+ hands/hr with machine. it used to be 13 when
: they first opened and with a lot of new dealers. i remember 13 because one
: dealer from another casino was laughing because at his own casino, he could
: do 16 without machine. i noticed recently:
: 1) they might get rid of some slow/old dealers, and hire better ones;
: 2) they don't change decks/refill chips as often as in AC, which reduces
: time delay.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 10 for 9To hand, i play poorly, i should push him back on the turn even it
doesn't change anything in the end.
for the 8d9d hand, you read it wrong, AA guy rivers 4 card flush, hehe. i'm
between these two normally tight guys, and know at least one of them is on
the flush side or strong draw to it. MP's bet size is a good indicator he
already makes a strong hand (from set to a made flush) and with AA/KK/AK/QQ
like hand behind me yet to act, i don't feel like committing my stack with
no room to improve. calling would be a disaster, too many cards on the turn
would make my head spin with a possible $300 pot (if both LP and i only call
here on flop).
will
range
nothing
actually like your fold there although you did fold the winner. I agree with
you on the thought on that hand.
【在 p****r 的大作中提到】
: Rake and tip is a big cost over long term if you play serious. Usually ,
: the higher stake the game is, the lower tip that dealer get. I used to rail
: commerce 20/40 NL game for a few times, most guys sat with more than 20k
: stack, and lots of pot are couple of thousands, but I never see a single
: player tip more than one buck no matter how big the pot is. But I see player
: tip 100$ in 1-3 game.
: Some dealers told me they got most tips from 1-3 or 2-5 game as well. Do
: not be afraid to be called "cheap" when playing poker. These tip can really
: kill you over long term. Remember our edge is not that big and we never
: receive tip when we are losing.
| | | c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 11 Well said. I share exactly the same experience. Losing players tip way more
than winning players. I have seen so many players that only bring 2 buy-ins
-- they know they are likely gonna lose so they want to limit their loss. In
that case, they become extremely happy when they are running hot and are
willing to tip a lot. On the other hand, winning players know that they win
because they got better skills. Hence there is no point rewarding dealers
for their winnings.
Sometimes I really hate the peer pressure. Some people tip when a new dealer
sits down, tip when they only win the blinds, tip when they split a small
pot, tip when a dealer leaves, tip $10 when they win a $200 pot.
And I can feel that they are not rich and are just squandering their hard
earned money. It takes a bit mental toughness to stay cheap on such tables.
,
rail
player
really
【在 p****r 的大作中提到】
: Rake and tip is a big cost over long term if you play serious. Usually ,
: the higher stake the game is, the lower tip that dealer get. I used to rail
: commerce 20/40 NL game for a few times, most guys sat with more than 20k
: stack, and lots of pot are couple of thousands, but I never see a single
: player tip more than one buck no matter how big the pot is. But I see player
: tip 100$ in 1-3 game.
: Some dealers told me they got most tips from 1-3 or 2-5 game as well. Do
: not be afraid to be called "cheap" when playing poker. These tip can really
: kill you over long term. Remember our edge is not that big and we never
: receive tip when we are losing.
| p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 12 srry, my bad. did not read carefully while I am half drunk :P
For the 9t hand, I would play fast on the flop. Raise on the flop and get
in if he raise it back. That is the board that can hit his preflop raising
range a lot and your hand can be draw out as well, like AK, KT ,set ect can
out draw you.
m
QQ
turn
call
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: for 9To hand, i play poorly, i should push him back on the turn even it
: doesn't change anything in the end.
: for the 8d9d hand, you read it wrong, AA guy rivers 4 card flush, hehe. i'm
: between these two normally tight guys, and know at least one of them is on
: the flush side or strong draw to it. MP's bet size is a good indicator he
: already makes a strong hand (from set to a made flush) and with AA/KK/AK/QQ
: like hand behind me yet to act, i don't feel like committing my stack with
: no room to improve. calling would be a disaster, too many cards on the turn
: would make my head spin with a possible $300 pot (if both LP and i only call
: here on flop).
| M********g
发帖数: 717 | 13 hand 2, what did you put him on at flop? A*? And you knew he was a calling
station?
pre
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: ok, yes, after a long break, i played a session last night, lol.
: 1) hand 1, limping table, EP raises to $6, and 5 callers, i call on cutoff
: with 9To.
: flop: QhJh8.
: EP c-bets $20, all fold, i call.
: turn: J
: EP bets $45, interesting size with his pre-flop and flop action, i call.
: river: blank 2 (busted any flush draws)
: EP bets $80 with $30 left, strong all the way on 3 streets (let's ignore pre
: -flop $6 as nothing but a pot sweetner).
| M********g
发帖数: 717 | 14 I guess it was already heads up, so he chose to slow play. And he probably
put EP on tpgk/op?
can
【在 p****r 的大作中提到】
: srry, my bad. did not read carefully while I am half drunk :P
: For the 9t hand, I would play fast on the flop. Raise on the flop and get
: in if he raise it back. That is the board that can hit his preflop raising
: range a lot and your hand can be draw out as well, like AK, KT ,set ect can
: out draw you.
:
: m
: QQ
: turn
: call
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 15 yeah, best way to get paid from AA/KK alike, i admit his $6 tiny preflop
raise confuses me and i don't have enough info. on his style yet at that
time.
can
【在 p****r 的大作中提到】
: srry, my bad. did not read carefully while I am half drunk :P
: For the 9t hand, I would play fast on the flop. Raise on the flop and get
: in if he raise it back. That is the board that can hit his preflop raising
: range a lot and your hand can be draw out as well, like AK, KT ,set ect can
: out draw you.
:
: m
: QQ
: turn
: call
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 16 yes, i put him on a weak Ax like A9/AT alike, and he's willing to call a
raise at least, on the turn, i add 55 as a possibility or A6 improves to two
pair.
he's way looser than i thought. he regrets a lot after he loses all and says
he should head home after that hand, now he pays me back all plus interest,
lol.
【在 M********g 的大作中提到】
: hand 2, what did you put him on at flop? A*? And you knew he was a calling
: station?
:
: pre
| P*****s
发帖数: 393 | 17 in family pot, I usually play like a weak hand even I have top pair and two
pairs. I will lose only a little when some one hit some monster draws
because those people usually just bet $5-$6 to trap as many as possible
people in.
pre
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: ok, yes, after a long break, i played a session last night, lol.
: 1) hand 1, limping table, EP raises to $6, and 5 callers, i call on cutoff
: with 9To.
: flop: QhJh8.
: EP c-bets $20, all fold, i call.
: turn: J
: EP bets $45, interesting size with his pre-flop and flop action, i call.
: river: blank 2 (busted any flush draws)
: EP bets $80 with $30 left, strong all the way on 3 streets (let's ignore pre
: -flop $6 as nothing but a pot sweetner).
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 18 very nice post, 顶老大，德艺双馨 | g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 19 Don't quite like your play on hand 5. Do you stiLl like your play if river
was blank?
Tight LP range is pretty clear. You are ahead of him for sure. Tight MP
could have made flush or set or high card flush draw. You have position on
MP. I would call flop and see what MP do on turn(I assume LP call on flop as
well which will slow MP's turn move if he didn't have nuts flush). I will
push on turn if MP checks on turn.
I had almost exact situAtion few days ago and I push all in on turn after I
figour that none of them have flush and won a huge pot.
pre
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: ok, yes, after a long break, i played a session last night, lol.
: 1) hand 1, limping table, EP raises to $6, and 5 callers, i call on cutoff
: with 9To.
: flop: QhJh8.
: EP c-bets $20, all fold, i call.
: turn: J
: EP bets $45, interesting size with his pre-flop and flop action, i call.
: river: blank 2 (busted any flush draws)
: EP bets $80 with $30 left, strong all the way on 3 streets (let's ignore pre
: -flop $6 as nothing but a pot sweetner).
| s*********r
发帖数: 4210 | 20 DP sounds better. I heard they have badbeat now, right? only need to pay
more toll fee for me to go there this weekend. carpool, anyone? | | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 21 yes, even if the river is blank, since with MP's flop bet size, i could be
drawing dead totally already vs. a mid made flush, or got squeezed by LP on
flop if he has one actually, or ahead on flop, but have to play full stake
with 2 streets coming against 1-2 big draws (to boat or nut flush).
i don't think it's worth it at all, with $18 invested, and we all have $400+
behind.
as
I
【在 g**s 的大作中提到】
: Don't quite like your play on hand 5. Do you stiLl like your play if river
: was blank?
: Tight LP range is pretty clear. You are ahead of him for sure. Tight MP
: could have made flush or set or high card flush draw. You have position on
: MP. I would call flop and see what MP do on turn(I assume LP call on flop as
: well which will slow MP's turn move if he didn't have nuts flush). I will
: push on turn if MP checks on turn.
: I had almost exact situAtion few days ago and I push all in on turn after I
: figour that none of them have flush and won a huge pot.
:
| g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 22 Then do you play same way if you knew/saw MP and LP' hand? If you 100% knew
MP has set and LP has over pair with flush draw? I would not and that's why
I think your play is questionable. I am not saying it's wrong but maybe
there is a better play...
on
400+
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: yes, even if the river is blank, since with MP's flop bet size, i could be
: drawing dead totally already vs. a mid made flush, or got squeezed by LP on
: flop if he has one actually, or ahead on flop, but have to play full stake
: with 2 streets coming against 1-2 big draws (to boat or nut flush).
: i don't think it's worth it at all, with $18 invested, and we all have $400+
: behind.
:
: as
: I
| l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 23 Agree with you. I would at least call the flop and reevaluate on the turn.
With the blank turn, I would push and I don't think the original raiser can
call with only one card to come, and you had enough chips to push him off
the hand. If you were short stack, than it is a different story. Anyway,
that's how I would play. Yeah, there is always a risk for you to lose your
stack, but when you have the best hand at the first two streets, you should
try your best to win the pot.
I had a similar hand a few month ago. I have stack of 220. I raises to 13
with 55 in MP. LP calls and EP calls.Flop 5 7 K with two hearts. EP checks,
I check, hoping for LP to bet. LP bet 10, and EP raises all in with 42
dollars. I realize I have a big decision to make. I know EP only have top
pair, so I am not worried about him, but LP is on flush draw. The question
for me now is: should I push here or on the turn? I first count my stack,
and find out that If I call the 48, I will still have 150 left, and LP has
approximately the same stack. I know if I push on the flop, with two cards
to come, a lot of people would call. So then I made my decision. I will call
the 42,and I will push on the turn as long as there is a non-heart card.
Turn is a spade,and I push all in, and it doesn't take much time before LP
folds her hand. River is a 6 of hearts, and LP says she would've hit her
straight flush. She had 3 4 of hearts, and she said she would've definitely
called if I pushed on the flop but not on the turn. I comforted her and told
her that she made the right decision. I once folded an open straight flush
draw on the turn when a guy pushed all in with his 350 chips. I had him
covered. The other guy was all in and he already had queens full. I folded
my hand, and my straight flush came on the river. I would've won a huge pot
plus 400 dollars of high hand bonus. I was so upset at that time, but now I
think I made a good fold. Since one player already had full house, I only
had two outs, and 350 to call just too much. Anyway, my point is that with only one card to come on the turn, a lot of people will give up for their draws, so you did have a good chance to win a big pot in that hand.
as
I
【在 g**s 的大作中提到】
: Don't quite like your play on hand 5. Do you stiLl like your play if river
: was blank?
: Tight LP range is pretty clear. You are ahead of him for sure. Tight MP
: could have made flush or set or high card flush draw. You have position on
: MP. I would call flop and see what MP do on turn(I assume LP call on flop as
: well which will slow MP's turn move if he didn't have nuts flush). I will
: push on turn if MP checks on turn.
: I had almost exact situAtion few days ago and I push all in on turn after I
: figour that none of them have flush and won a huge pot.
:
| s**h
发帖数: 262 | 24 too bad I moved out of Delaware, now I am a Sands regular
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: no, DE park.
: it's the best poker room in this area, if we don't count AC.
: 1) the management there did a great job in promoting their room:
: http://www.delawarepark.com/poker_promotions.php
: now they got 2 20-table-each areas just for poker, one for tournaments and
: one for cash. you can play SNGs for as low as $20 or MTTs. cash games they
: offer 2/4L, 1/2NL, 2/5NL, sometimes 5/10NL, and a few PLO tables. on
: weekends, you can always find plenty of action. before you go, you can
: always find how's everything checking live report at:
: http://www.delawarepark.com/poker/index.php
| g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 25 thanks 女将. BTW, the turn push is not to push people off or bluff, it's for
getting more values.
on flop, I dont like to push because:
1. I dont know I am ahead or not.
2. Even I am ahead, 2 more cards and 2 opponents actually make my winning
odd very slim. If LP squeeze MP out on flop, I am very happy to go all-in
there.
on turn, I want them to call to pay the price(especially HU) if my reads
tell me that none has made flush. If they call the turn and bad beat me, so
be it. Again, dont be result oriented. The river card after all-in should
not judge the way we played.
can
should
,
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
: Agree with you. I would at least call the flop and reevaluate on the turn.
: With the blank turn, I would push and I don't think the original raiser can
: call with only one card to come, and you had enough chips to push him off
: the hand. If you were short stack, than it is a different story. Anyway,
: that's how I would play. Yeah, there is always a risk for you to lose your
: stack, but when you have the best hand at the first two streets, you should
: try your best to win the pot.
: I had a similar hand a few month ago. I have stack of 220. I raises to 13
: with 55 in MP. LP calls and EP calls.Flop 5 7 K with two hearts. EP checks,
: I check, hoping for LP to bet. LP bet 10, and EP raises all in with 42
| s**h
发帖数: 262 | 26 Regarding the pocket 5 hand, jamming the turn is good as played.
But on the flop, what if the LP with combo draws raised again after you
called the EP all-in? Would you fold your bottom set here? If you are never
folding, why not shove first against LP's range with folding equity, given
the stack size? If you are willing to fold the bottom set, then flat is ok.
can
should
,
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
: Agree with you. I would at least call the flop and reevaluate on the turn.
: With the blank turn, I would push and I don't think the original raiser can
: call with only one card to come, and you had enough chips to push him off
: the hand. If you were short stack, than it is a different story. Anyway,
: that's how I would play. Yeah, there is always a risk for you to lose your
: stack, but when you have the best hand at the first two streets, you should
: try your best to win the pot.
: I had a similar hand a few month ago. I have stack of 220. I raises to 13
: with 55 in MP. LP calls and EP calls.Flop 5 7 K with two hearts. EP checks,
: I check, hoping for LP to bet. LP bet 10, and EP raises all in with 42
| l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 27 I was never folding my set on that spot. If she raised all in, then I would'
ve definitely called. However, even I was in favor on the flop,there was
still big chance for my opponent to draw on me. I would rather take the pot
on the turn than risk my whole stack to win villain's whole stack. That's
just how I play. Everyone has different style.There's nothing wrong with
that.
never
.
【在 s**h 的大作中提到】
: Regarding the pocket 5 hand, jamming the turn is good as played.
: But on the flop, what if the LP with combo draws raised again after you
: called the EP all-in? Would you fold your bottom set here? If you are never
: folding, why not shove first against LP's range with folding equity, given
: the stack size? If you are willing to fold the bottom set, then flat is ok.
:
: can
: should
: ,
| s**h
发帖数: 262 | 28 it's not about how you play, it's about constantly improve your game
you may be a winning player at low stakes, only because your opponents are
weak
you have a lot of fundamental leaks in poker
would'
pot
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
: I was never folding my set on that spot. If she raised all in, then I would'
: ve definitely called. However, even I was in favor on the flop,there was
: still big chance for my opponent to draw on me. I would rather take the pot
: on the turn than risk my whole stack to win villain's whole stack. That's
: just how I play. Everyone has different style.There's nothing wrong with
: that.
:
: never
: .
| l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 29 Looks like you know a lot about my play? LOL. Thanks anyway. I am aware of
my leaks, and I am trying my best to improve my game.
【在 s**h 的大作中提到】
: it's not about how you play, it's about constantly improve your game
: you may be a winning player at low stakes, only because your opponents are
: weak
: you have a lot of fundamental leaks in poker
:
: would'
: pot
| g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 30 Good question. However, shove on flop will make LP's decision way easier. it
's a clear fold because of the odds. Do we want to LP to fold here? no. do
we want LP to see the turn? yes but need to pay. Managing the sizing here
is tough as re-raising/shoving the EP will let LP decision making way easy(
fold with no questions). But just call is not perfect either as it will also
let EP decision making easy(easy call). I guess either way is ok, I prefer
calling.
Tougher situation to your opponent --> Tougher decision making for opponent-
-> more mistake opponent make--> more profit we get.
For each street, we have all kinds of different options, we want to make the
move which makes opponent hard/tough to move any direction.
It's fair to say if you make decision on behave of your opponent, it's a
questionable move. For example, bet too little(easy call) or bet too much(
easy fold.)
never
.
【在 s**h 的大作中提到】
: Regarding the pocket 5 hand, jamming the turn is good as played.
: But on the flop, what if the LP with combo draws raised again after you
: called the EP all-in? Would you fold your bottom set here? If you are never
: folding, why not shove first against LP's range with folding equity, given
: the stack size? If you are willing to fold the bottom set, then flat is ok.
:
: can
: should
: ,
| | | l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 31 "Tougher situation to your opponent --> Tougher decision making for opponent
--> more mistake opponent make--> more profit we get."
Very good point. I'll keep this in my mind next time I play. Thanks.
it
(
also
prefer
opponent-
the
【在 g**s 的大作中提到】
: Good question. However, shove on flop will make LP's decision way easier. it
: 's a clear fold because of the odds. Do we want to LP to fold here? no. do
: we want LP to see the turn? yes but need to pay. Managing the sizing here
: is tough as re-raising/shoving the EP will let LP decision making way easy(
: fold with no questions). But just call is not perfect either as it will also
: let EP decision making easy(easy call). I guess either way is ok, I prefer
: calling.
: Tougher situation to your opponent --> Tougher decision making for opponent-
: -> more mistake opponent make--> more profit we get.
: For each street, we have all kinds of different options, we want to make the
| p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 32 Lol. lzi真的把durrrr放在头像上了？ 现在女牌手喜欢durrrr的很多。
While I really like the way you play your bottom set on a heavy draw
board, waiting for a blank turn one time to ship it in , I do not agree
your point on Laoda's hand of 98s. I like fryking's fold on the flop and his
thought on the hand as well. I think it is very different situation.
If we disregard the chance that villian may hold higher set, your bottom
set can not be in a bad shape against all villian's range. Waiting a blank turn
to get in gives villion bad odd to draw anything with only one more card to
come, also it looks shoving with draw and villian may make a hero call with
top pair etc. I watch durrrr's play a few times in similiar situation while
he held two pairs and he did the same thing. One is in ausssie million cash
game.
While fryking's hand is quite different , IMHO. He flopped str on a
same suit board w/o redraw and he thinks two villian's have strong made hand
/strong draw. Even against one villian's set and another villion's nuts
flush draw, we only have about 35% equality on the flop. But that is the
best we can expect.We do not know if villian has set or higher flush, so we
do NOT know what we want to see on the turn. In that case, I always talk to
myself a fold.
We always try to maximize our euality while we are in hand. That is the
ultimate guidline when we make a decision. Of course, we do not play
against a specific hand since we do not know what villian exactly has. We
play against a range. In fryking's hand, if we put at least one villian had
strong made hand , he might have a set, but he also might have a hand like
QJs, KQs etc while we are drawing stone cold dead. So with two ABC style
villian in hand, we either have 35% equality ,either totally dead. Folding
is clearly the best option. Of couse, if we are against very loose player
who bluff a lot, we will definately not fold that on the flop. Poker is
people game anway.
can
should
,
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】
: Agree with you. I would at least call the flop and reevaluate on the turn.
: With the blank turn, I would push and I don't think the original raiser can
: call with only one card to come, and you had enough chips to push him off
: the hand. If you were short stack, than it is a different story. Anyway,
: that's how I would play. Yeah, there is always a risk for you to lose your
: stack, but when you have the best hand at the first two streets, you should
: try your best to win the pot.
: I had a similar hand a few month ago. I have stack of 220. I raises to 13
: with 55 in MP. LP calls and EP calls.Flop 5 7 K with two hearts. EP checks,
: I check, hoping for LP to bet. LP bet 10, and EP raises all in with 42
| p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 33 Agree. A great NL player constantly put opp on tough decision and put a
lot of pressure on them.
Also, when we have strong hand/nuts, we want to our opponent commit a lot
of chips in early street and face a tough decision in later street, while
villion has a marignal hand but already committing a lot of money in the
pot against us. On the other side, we should try to avoid putting ourself in that spot.
opponent-
the
【在 g**s 的大作中提到】
: Good question. However, shove on flop will make LP's decision way easier. it
: 's a clear fold because of the odds. Do we want to LP to fold here? no. do
: we want LP to see the turn? yes but need to pay. Managing the sizing here
: is tough as re-raising/shoving the EP will let LP decision making way easy(
: fold with no questions). But just call is not perfect either as it will also
: let EP decision making easy(easy call). I guess either way is ok, I prefer
: calling.
: Tougher situation to your opponent --> Tougher decision making for opponent-
: -> more mistake opponent make--> more profit we get.
: For each street, we have all kinds of different options, we want to make the
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 34 as shown below and i expect during the hand, i'm only a slight favorite on
the flop.
as the second one to act and relative deep stack (3 guys all with 200BB left),
this situation is worse.
MP is a straight-forward guy, not tricky at all, he calls straddle
and then this $18 preflop raise with only a small range. on the flop, he
bets $60 only with a strong made hand, as strong as a made non-nut flush, or
as weak as a set (not even suited cards hit 2 pairs). he's not capable of:
1) call preflop with suited AsXs, and then kill the flop action;
2) chase with offsuit AsX, and bet out (this big) first to block. offsuit
combo? then he's not calling preflop with As8.
if i call here, these're chances that LP may give up with his non As hands
like KdKh, AhKh, QQ alike, but will definitely stay with AsA, or AsKs (enjoy
the show, lol). KsK, maybe see another street with his position.
i may be able to get a relatively cheap turn to see, but if MP fires again,
it'll be very tough. and there're tons of turn cards would be scary (paired
board, spade, 4-card straight, etc.). i'll be at their mercy to be able to
see river or not.
as played, it's a $109 (60+49) to be called, which is actually low because
MP chickens with his set and position.
set is only one likely hand in his range, made flushes like KsQs is also
likely.
knew
why
【在 g**s 的大作中提到】
: Then do you play same way if you knew/saw MP and LP' hand? If you 100% knew
: MP has set and LP has over pair with flush draw? I would not and that's why
: I think your play is questionable. I am not saying it's wrong but maybe
: there is a better play...
:
: on
: 400+
| l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 35 主要是这段时间看了很多HSP，觉得Dwan真的是打得太好了，个人认为他应该是CASH
GAME里打得最好的。HSP 他总共赢了快2百万了，DANIEL输了2百多万。还有就是从电视
上观察他人很好，没IVEY这么高傲冷酷，而且有时IVEY输了还会发脾气，很少看DWAN输
了那样，感觉他很平易近人。
拿了straight在那种board是有危险，但我还是会call the flop, turn怎么打就要看拿
SET的那个人怎么ACT再说。 个人看法而已，没什么一定对或错的，不像某些人，别人
一有不同意见就上纲上线，太有失风度了。
P.S.不是在说你哦。
draw
his
bottom
turn
to
with
while
【在 p****r 的大作中提到】
: Agree. A great NL player constantly put opp on tough decision and put a
: lot of pressure on them.
: Also, when we have strong hand/nuts, we want to our opponent commit a lot
: of chips in early street and face a tough decision in later street, while
: villion has a marignal hand but already committing a lot of money in the
: pot against us. On the other side, we should try to avoid putting ourself in that spot.
:
:
: opponent-
: the
| p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 36 ｈｓｐ是我最喜欢看的poker show, 我看那ｓｈｏｗ，才开始对ＮＬＨ 有哪么
大的兴趣。特别喜欢Gabe Kapland, 他非常幽默，作为职业牌手，对ｐｏｋｅｒ的理解非常深，比
ｅｓｐｎ那些解说强的太多了。还记得他讲的一句话,很喜欢，"Sometime just pair of tens is good, sometime full house is not good. Knowing the difference makes these players play here. " 我的ＮＬ算是看那个ｓｈｏｗ开始起步和入门的。
很多人认为Tom Dwan 是世界上最好的ＮＬＨ player， 个人认为他至少是
top 5 之一。 我非常喜欢他在做每一个决定的时候，都认真考虑很久。我在ｗｓｏｐ
的时候，看了一会他打ｈｕ，没有摄像机在，他也是一样的。 每一个ｍｏｖｅ都在考
虑各种option.
我没认真看前面的ｐｏｓｔ，但觉得妹妹也没有必要太在乎别人评论什么。 | l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 37 Gabe 是我最喜欢的解说员，而且他很懂POKER，他自己也玩得非常好。他确实非常搞笑
。我也是看HSP才开始发现他竟然这么幽默。他跟AJ是最佳组合。第7季没有他我是一集
都看不下去。贴个我认为最搞笑的comment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiC08vVZSMs
"Phil Hellmuth got a weird look on his face like a shy ostrich looking to mate"----------哈哈哈。。。 实在是太形象了！
解非常深，比
of tens is good, sometime full house is not good. Knowing the difference
makes these players play here. " 我的ＮＬ算是看那个ｓｈｏｗ开始起步和入门
的。
【在 p****r 的大作中提到】
: ｈｓｐ是我最喜欢看的poker show, 我看那ｓｈｏｗ，才开始对ＮＬＨ 有哪么
: 大的兴趣。特别喜欢Gabe Kapland, 他非常幽默，作为职业牌手，对ｐｏｋｅｒ的理解非常深，比
: ｅｓｐｎ那些解说强的太多了。还记得他讲的一句话,很喜欢，"Sometime just pair of tens is good, sometime full house is not good. Knowing the difference makes these players play here. " 我的ＮＬ算是看那个ｓｈｏｗ开始起步和入门的。
: 很多人认为Tom Dwan 是世界上最好的ＮＬＨ player， 个人认为他至少是
: top 5 之一。 我非常喜欢他在做每一个决定的时候，都认真考虑很久。我在ｗｓｏｐ
: 的时候，看了一会他打ｈｕ，没有摄像机在，他也是一样的。 每一个ｍｏｖｅ都在考
: 虑各种option.
:
: 我没认真看前面的ｐｏｓｔ，但觉得妹妹也没有必要太在乎别人评论什么。
| c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 38 可惜Stu Ungar不在了.不然看他打HSP那该是什么样的景象!
我觉得他那手10 high 抓 $32000 river all in bluff应该是扑克史上前无古人后无来
者的play. 10 high bluff比10 high hero call的难度简直没有可比性.而且他自信到
只想了几秒钟,还喊出了对方的牌(也不怕喊错了丢人). | l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 39 他是天才。其实DWAN也用9 HIGH在HSPCALL了DANIEL的2万多的 RIVER BET，那个BOARD
几乎和当年STU CALL别人的一模一样 3 3 7 K Q，不过他CALL错了，DANIEL有个K。能
call别人的BLUFF一定要求自己相信自己的判断，不second guess yourself.Stu玩牌时
应该是对自己非常有信心的那种。唉，他要还在就好，可以看看他和 Ivey, Dwan玩牌
是什么样子。
【在 c*****t 的大作中提到】
: 可惜Stu Ungar不在了.不然看他打HSP那该是什么样的景象!
: 我觉得他那手10 high 抓 $32000 river all in bluff应该是扑克史上前无古人后无来
: 者的play. 10 high bluff比10 high hero call的难度简直没有可比性.而且他自信到
: 只想了几秒钟,还喊出了对方的牌(也不怕喊错了丢人).
| D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 40 "DWAN也用9 HIGH在HSPCALL了DANIEL的2万多的 RIVER BET，那个BOARD
几乎和当年STU CALL别人的一模一样 3 3 7 K Q，不过他CALL错了，DANIEL有个K。"
I am definitely willing to try this type of thing for a few times, if i were
him.
This can make history, as chemcat mentioned.
you may just catch the bluff one of ten times, but people will remember and
be amazed by the correct one for a very long time.
Nobody care the rest nine times. | | | p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 41 When they make this kind of hero call, they have strong read based on
reasoning, how opponent play, tells etc. So these kind of call is huge +EV
if you really know what you are doing. Of course you can be wrong, just like
calling with second nuts on the river can be wrong as well.
When Phil Galdfond called a over 80k river shove with TT on KQQ86 board,
he run Pokerstove and he thought he had over 80% equality against villian's
shove range. He was against J9 that hand.
were
and
【在 D*A 的大作中提到】
: "DWAN也用9 HIGH在HSPCALL了DANIEL的2万多的 RIVER BET，那个BOARD
: 几乎和当年STU CALL别人的一模一样 3 3 7 K Q，不过他CALL错了，DANIEL有个K。"
: I am definitely willing to try this type of thing for a few times, if i were
: him.
: This can make history, as chemcat mentioned.
: you may just catch the bluff one of ten times, but people will remember and
: be amazed by the correct one for a very long time.
: Nobody care the rest nine times.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 42 Hero call with 9 high 是用来造神的， 不是用来赢钱的。
★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs Lite 7.28 | p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 43 http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-hand-of-the-day_the-best-han
Dolye's call with J high on the river is another classic hand.
They have strong reason to make this kind of call. For me, unless in
heads up situation which justify a lot of loose call against opp who bluff a
lot with missed draw, I do not like this kind of hero call often unless I
have very strong reasoning to do so. There is always risk/reward issue that
you want to consider. Do not worry about being bluffed out sometime. Like
Daniel said, a good player folds winning hand often.
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/11130-online-poker-ben-sulsky-discusses-hero-call-gone-wrong
This guy made with a hero call with T high on the river against opp's
shove with J high. Do not know if urnotindanger2 shove to bluff or for value
. lol.
【在 c*****t 的大作中提到】
: 可惜Stu Ungar不在了.不然看他打HSP那该是什么样的景象!
: 我觉得他那手10 high 抓 $32000 river all in bluff应该是扑克史上前无古人后无来
: 者的play. 10 high bluff比10 high hero call的难度简直没有可比性.而且他自信到
: 只想了几秒钟,还喊出了对方的牌(也不怕喊错了丢人).
|
|
