D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 1 Romans 1:1-7
1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for
the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets
in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a
descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared
with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus
Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace
and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience
that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to
belong to Jesus Christ.
7To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
评论：保罗的信仰很大气，不一定神学上很系统，但是语气坚定大义凛然。政治上很开
明，说话很清晰扎实，点出了信仰导致服从，这点从政治上是很有效的，服从嘛，不服
不行。
看起来书信是写给在罗马的信徒的，号召有志者来当传教士。 | D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 2 Romans 1:8-17 Paul’s Longing to Visit Rome
8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your
faith is being reported all over the world. 9God, whom I serve with my whole
heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I
remember you 10in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by
God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.
11I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make
you strong— 12that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each
other’s faith. 13I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I planned
many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now)
in order that I might have a harvest among you, just as I have had among the
other Gentiles.
14I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the
foolish. 15That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who
are at Rome.
16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the
salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness
that is by faith from first to last,c just as it is written: “The righteous
will live by faith.”d
评论: 8,9,10开篇3句，句句有神名，诉说对罗马信徒的想念，说的情深意切，如果有
人要是提上帝不存在，那么是很伤感情的。
11-13，诉说分享精神信仰的渴望。保罗真诚得像一个政治家一样，很有魅力。言语中
体现出一种豪迈的大爱。
14-17，保罗说明向罗马人传教的愿望。保罗这里体现出的思想境界，仿佛一个高僧、
第一流的人文主义作家，精神气质一脉相通。接着他解释信福音的好处，在前面提过信
仰和服从之后，这里又提到信仰和正直的关系。
保罗的思想连贯通顺，信写的堪称典范，既正式、严肃，又情感充沛，我们现在为什么
不这么写信、发帖了？
龙应台觉得作家分三种，“坏的作家暴露自己的愚昧，好的作家使你看见愚昧，伟大的
作家使你看见愚昧的同时认出自己的原型而涌出最深刻的悲悯。”
保罗大概可以算是有伟大作家的气质。
for
prophets
a
obedience
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 1:1-7
: 1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for
: the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets
: in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a
: descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared
: with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus
: Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace
: and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience
: that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to
: belong to Jesus Christ.
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 3 Romans 1：18-32 God’s Wrath Against Mankind
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness
and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since
what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain
to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—
his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave
thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts
were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and
exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal
man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to
sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They
exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created
things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women
exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men
also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for
one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in
themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the
knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not
to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil,
greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and
malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and
boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they
are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s
righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only
continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
评论： 这是一长段对非基督徒的污蔑，是目前为止我读到的圣经里最连贯通顺容易理
解段落。
(待续）
whole
make
planned
)
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 1:8-17 Paul’s Longing to Visit Rome
: 8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your
: faith is being reported all over the world. 9God, whom I serve with my whole
: heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I
: remember you 10in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by
: God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.
: 11I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make
: you strong— 12that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each
: other’s faith. 13I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I planned
: many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now)
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 4 講到保羅書信的文體風格， 有人研究出有幾封不可能
是保羅寫的。 | A*********e
发帖数: 4361 | 5 seems you're very interested in Paul
for
prophets
a
obedience
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 1:1-7
: 1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for
: the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets
: in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a
: descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared
: with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus
: Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace
: and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience
: that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to
: belong to Jesus Christ.
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 6 耶鲁那个讲座里提了说，给基督教奠基的就是Paul。
基督教就不是耶稣的，根本就是Paul的价值观，包括基督教的教会也不是耶稣的教会，
而是Paul、Peter等使徒的教会。Paul利用耶稣的形象，把种种正直的品格树立起来，
人做不到这些完美的品格，就被叫做罪，通过把罪钉死在十字架上，来逐步改善。十字
架根本就不是耶稣的十字架，是Paul的十字架，是Paul把耶稣钉死在十字架上的。
耶稣只是强调最终会实现Kingdom of God,是Paul把耶稣打成神，然后说耶稣会再来。
基督徒在等审判，现在都2000年了，审判还没来，喊狼来了也不能喊这么久吧。
Paul的人品还算正直，他主张破除偶像，改祭活神，实际上是用他自己作为行为模范来
教化他人。
如果不是信心到了顽固的程度，到了反科学，迫害别人的程度，其实Paul的风格我还挺
喜欢，但是这种风格非常容易导致迫害，导致过分的自信和顽固。
【在 A*********e 的大作中提到】
: seems you're very interested in Paul
:
: for
: prophets
: a
: obedience
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 7 耶鲁讲新约的那个人给了一个概括说
罗马书， 1 corinthians, 2 corinthians, galatians, Philipias, 1 Thess,
Philemon
这7本一般认为是他写的，
1-2 Timothy，Titus 一般认为不是他写的。
2 Thess, Colossians, Ephesians存疑，可疑程度从小到大。
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
: 講到保羅書信的文體風格， 有人研究出有幾封不可能
: 是保羅寫的。
| l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 8 基本认同，不过保罗真存在么？
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 耶鲁那个讲座里提了说，给基督教奠基的就是Paul。
: 基督教就不是耶稣的，根本就是Paul的价值观，包括基督教的教会也不是耶稣的教会，
: 而是Paul、Peter等使徒的教会。Paul利用耶稣的形象，把种种正直的品格树立起来，
: 人做不到这些完美的品格，就被叫做罪，通过把罪钉死在十字架上，来逐步改善。十字
: 架根本就不是耶稣的十字架，是Paul的十字架，是Paul把耶稣钉死在十字架上的。
: 耶稣只是强调最终会实现Kingdom of God,是Paul把耶稣打成神，然后说耶稣会再来。
: 基督徒在等审判，现在都2000年了，审判还没来，喊狼来了也不能喊这么久吧。
: Paul的人品还算正直，他主张破除偶像，改祭活神，实际上是用他自己作为行为模范来
: 教化他人。
: 如果不是信心到了顽固的程度，到了反科学，迫害别人的程度，其实Paul的风格我还挺
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 9 我怀疑有这么个人，但是除了信也没什么证据。就像孔子似的。
文字保存时间可真长。
【在 l*****a 的大作中提到】
: 基本认同，不过保罗真存在么？
| l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 10 肯定有这么个奠基的存在，不过我怀疑是几个人
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 我怀疑有这么个人，但是除了信也没什么证据。就像孔子似的。
: 文字保存时间可真长。
| | | l*******e
发帖数: 3584 | 11 使徒保罗身份背景
1. 希伯来文名扫罗(徒7:58)，生于基利家的大数(徒22:3-4)；纯犹太人，便雅敏支派
，父亲是法利赛人(徒23:6)，少年时到耶路撒冷城法利赛人迦玛列(徒5:34)的门下受严
紧律法教育(徒22:3)，守全613条诫命(腓3:4-6)，热心犹太教的遗传(加1:14)，极力逼
迫残害基督徒(徒8:3, 加1:13)。
2. 生来就是罗马公民(徒22:28, 16:37, 25:11)，熟悉希腊学问(徒17:28, 多1:12)，
以造帐蓬为业(徒18:3)。
3. 在前往大马色逮捕基督徒路上遇见主，并在大马色受洗归主(徒9:22-26)。
4. 有使徒的身份(加1:12)，并被称为外邦人的使徒(罗11:13, 徒9:15, 22:21, 加1:16
, 2:7, 弗3:8)，拉丁文名保罗(Paullus徒13:9)可能为益于与外邦人沟通。
使徒保罗对基督教的影响力
1. 福音藉保罗广传给外邦人。
2. 新约27本书中13本(48%)为保罗所着。
3. 阐明﹑辩护新约神学﹑教义﹑与教会真理。 | E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 12 保羅的存在很少被懷疑， 即使在非基當中，
耶穌大概勸了幾十人信他， 保羅則招募了
成千上萬的信徒， 保羅才是真正基督教創始人。 | l*******e
发帖数: 3584 | 13 他的存在没有什么需要证明的，他的身份有趣之处在于他从反基的先锋
到基督教的使徒之一。也在于他从一个严格守律法的法利赛人变成了一个
明白救恩是从信来的，而律法是让人知罪的基督徒。
如果他不成为基督徒，以他的罗马公民的身份，以他的出身他可以有令人
尊敬的地位和安宜的生活。可是成了基督徒，他不但要到处奔波，还要受
牢狱之苦，生活也是靠自己做帐蓬来维持。
教会是建在彼得之上的，说保罗建立教会还谈一不上。
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
: 保羅的存在很少被懷疑， 即使在非基當中，
: 耶穌大概勸了幾十人信他， 保羅則招募了
: 成千上萬的信徒， 保羅才是真正基督教創始人。
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 14
你也可以那麼說摩門那個史密司
彼得做過什麼事? 招了多少門徒？ 跟保羅根本不是一個數量級的。
【在 l*******e 的大作中提到】
: 他的存在没有什么需要证明的，他的身份有趣之处在于他从反基的先锋
: 到基督教的使徒之一。也在于他从一个严格守律法的法利赛人变成了一个
: 明白救恩是从信来的，而律法是让人知罪的基督徒。
: 如果他不成为基督徒，以他的罗马公民的身份，以他的出身他可以有令人
: 尊敬的地位和安宜的生活。可是成了基督徒，他不但要到处奔波，还要受
: 牢狱之苦，生活也是靠自己做帐蓬来维持。
: 教会是建在彼得之上的，说保罗建立教会还谈一不上。
| l*******e
发帖数: 3584 | 15 就彼得（抄来的）。但这也说明了为什么说教会是建在彼得之上的。
1.五旬節勇敢見證 - 聖靈於五旬節時降在門徒身上，吸引很多人圍觀，彼得就站起來
，高聲為主作
見證，引領很多人悔改信主（使徒行傳二章），從此以後，雖然遭遇逼迫，反對，他不
再退縮，反而
更加勇敢為主工作。
2.多行神蹟 – 彼得藉著神的同在，行了很多神蹟，來證明主的真理，如使瘸腿者行走
（徒3：1-
10）。
3.首次向外邦人傳道 – 彼得在主的指示下，到敬虔的義大利人哥尼流（Cornelius）
家裡，向他們
講述主耶穌的救恩，因見聖靈降在他們身上，就為他們施洗，首開向外邦人傳道之例，
顯明主耶穌救
恩要普及萬人，使信主之人不再分種族，階級，共組神的家。
4.教會之治理
1.行審判：使徒時代教會成立之出，有許多人因愛主愛人，把自己的全部產業賣
了，並且全
部款項奉獻給教會（徒4：34），其中有位信徒名叫亞拿尼亞，夫妻二人也把田產賣了
，但信心不足
又好面子，把部分價銀私留下來，其餘的拿到使徒面前，而稱那是全部價銀，彼得被聖
靈感動，立即
指出他們的過錯，而這對夫婦也相繼死亡（徒5：1-11）。
2.立執事：那時信主的人增加迅速，大家又凡物公用，一起生活，因此為了使徒
生活供給之
事能妥善處理，就令門徒選立出執事（徒6：1-6），解決了供給之事。
对于史密司，我无语。
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: 你也可以那麼說摩門那個史密司
: 彼得做過什麼事? 招了多少門徒？ 跟保羅根本不是一個數量級的。
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 16 彼得不是沒做事， 表演了魔術， 殺了些人， 是有的。
不像保羅， 大半新約都是他寫的， 凡是耶穌說的衝突到
保羅說的一律以保羅為準，誰比他牛？
【在 l*******e 的大作中提到】
: 就彼得（抄来的）。但这也说明了为什么说教会是建在彼得之上的。
: 1.五旬節勇敢見證 - 聖靈於五旬節時降在門徒身上，吸引很多人圍觀，彼得就站起來
: ，高聲為主作
: 見證，引領很多人悔改信主（使徒行傳二章），從此以後，雖然遭遇逼迫，反對，他不
: 再退縮，反而
: 更加勇敢為主工作。
: 2.多行神蹟 – 彼得藉著神的同在，行了很多神蹟，來證明主的真理，如使瘸腿者行走
: （徒3：1-
: 10）。
: 3.首次向外邦人傳道 – 彼得在主的指示下，到敬虔的義大利人哥尼流（Cornelius）
| l*******e
发帖数: 3584 | 17 这你真的错了。
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
: 彼得不是沒做事， 表演了魔術， 殺了些人， 是有的。
: 不像保羅， 大半新約都是他寫的， 凡是耶穌說的衝突到
: 保羅說的一律以保羅為準，誰比他牛？
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 18 展開說說
【在 l*******e 的大作中提到】
: 这你真的错了。
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 19 继续评论：
承接上文提到的正直与信仰的关系。Paul这里发表激情演说，诉说人们不信他的话就是
邪恶。Paul又解释信上帝已经有了这么多善果，人没有理由不信复活。
Paul尤其指责那些明明知道福音，却不信的人，说他们不用这套“信仰上帝促进人的正
直”的体系，却去崇拜会死的人，鸟，动物，爬行动物。
重点指出人之大欲--性欲，如果不用信仰来约束，就容易变态。
Paul眼中上帝的惩罚，就是这些不信上帝的人的种种恶习恶行。
Paul的这番指责义正辞严，如果他说的耶稣复活和控制一切监管一切的上帝真的存在的
话，倒不失为一种严厉的道德体系，就像儒家思想，但是和儒家思想一样，高调的道德
标准极容易导致虚伪和迫害。
godlessness
plain
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 1：18-32 God’s Wrath Against Mankind
: 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness
: and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since
: what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain
: to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—
: his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being
: understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
: 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave
: thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts
: were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 20 Romans 2:1-16 God’s Righteous Judgment
1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for
at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because
you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God’s judgment
against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man
, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will
escape God’s judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his
kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads
you toward repentance?
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are
storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his
righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will give to each person
according to what he has done.”a 7To those who by persistence in doing good
seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for
those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there
will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human
being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory,
honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the
Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and
all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those
who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey
the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do
not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law
for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that
the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences
also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending
them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
评论：Paul前面还用“他们”作为指责的对象，这里明目张胆的用起了“你们”，回想
前文亲切的问候，到这里的赤裸裸的威胁，谩骂，对比强烈。
Paul的雄辩技巧非常蛮横，先把对方的嘴堵上，说“不要对别人做判断”，基本跟“他
人眼中的刺”“自己眼中的梁木”等是同类的策略，强调对别人错误（也就是Paul的小
错误）要容忍。Paul说对方顽固，却没意识到他自己也顽固的要死。
接下来主要的观点，就是神会来审判的，做坏事的都要受惩罚，做好事的受奖励。如果
真有这样的审判，当然很好，人类道德水平会提升。但是都喊了2000年要审判了，还不
审，谎话就穿帮了。即使有道德提升的作用，用谎话来提升道德也过于虚伪。
另外就是消除犹太人和外族人的区别，强调用敬畏耶稣，敬畏神，作为唯一的标准。
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 继续评论：
: 承接上文提到的正直与信仰的关系。Paul这里发表激情演说，诉说人们不信他的话就是
: 邪恶。Paul又解释信上帝已经有了这么多善果，人没有理由不信复活。
: Paul尤其指责那些明明知道福音，却不信的人，说他们不用这套“信仰上帝促进人的正
: 直”的体系，却去崇拜会死的人，鸟，动物，爬行动物。
: 重点指出人之大欲--性欲，如果不用信仰来约束，就容易变态。
: Paul眼中上帝的惩罚，就是这些不信上帝的人的种种恶习恶行。
: Paul的这番指责义正辞严，如果他说的耶稣复活和控制一切监管一切的上帝真的存在的
: 话，倒不失为一种严厉的道德体系，就像儒家思想，但是和儒家思想一样，高调的道德
: 标准极容易导致虚伪和迫害。
| | | D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 21 Romans 2:17-29 The Jews and the Law
17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about
your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is
superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that
you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an
instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law
the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do
you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You
who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You
who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you
dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: “God’s name is
blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”b
25Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law,
you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26If those who are
not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as
though they were circumcised? 27The one who is not circumcised physically
and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have thec
written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely
outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and
circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written
code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.
评论：前面是教训那些不敬神的，这里是教训自以为是选民的犹太人。首先是用高调的
道德标准去提醒犹太人，是否比外族人做得更好？然后提到割包皮不如遵守法律重要。
这一段关于遵守法律的要求，对于现在的基督徒也应该有警示作用。
Paul的这几段话，意思连贯，情感充沛，骂得酣畅淋漓。我觉得律法中好的部分，不用
上帝来约束，同样也有，律法中不适应时代的要求，反而成了障碍。最初犹太人那里，
律法和上帝是一体的，现在的社会，法律早已经和上帝分离。所以是否有道德，是否遵
守法律，与敬畏上帝的关系越来越分离开了。
for
because
judgment
man
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 2:1-16 God’s Righteous Judgment
: 1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for
: at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because
: you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God’s judgment
: against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man
: , pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will
: escape God’s judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his
: kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads
: you toward repentance?
: 5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 22 Romans 3: 1-8 God’s Faithfulness
1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in
circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted
with the very words of God.
3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s
faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is
written:
“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”a
5But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly,
what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am
using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God
judge the world? 7Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s
truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a
sinner?” 8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and
as some claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their
condemnation is deserved.
评论：这一段意义混乱，我是看不懂了。
about
that
law
22You
You
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 2:17-29 The Jews and the Law
: 17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about
: your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is
: superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that
: you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an
: instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law
: the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do
: you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You
: who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You
: who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 23 Romans 3:9-20 No One Is Righteous
9What shall we conclude then? Are we any betterb? Not at all! We have
already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As
it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”c
13“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”d
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”e
14“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”f
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know.”g
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”h
19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the
law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held
accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his
sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of
sin.
评论： 纯粹讨论正直、律法和上帝的关系，太绕了。
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 3: 1-8 God’s Faithfulness
: 1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in
: circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted
: with the very words of God.
: 3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s
: faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is
: written:
: “So that you may be proved right when you speak
: and prevail when you judge.”a
: 5But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly,
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 24 Romans 3:21-31 Righteousness Through Faith
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to
which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes
through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ
Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,i through faith in
his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his
forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did
it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the
one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of
observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is
justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews
only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there
is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the
uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by
this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
评论：whatever.
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 3: 1-8 God’s Faithfulness
: 1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in
: circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted
: with the very words of God.
: 3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s
: faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is
: written:
: “So that you may be proved right when you speak
: and prevail when you judge.”a
: 5But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly,
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 25 Romans 4:Abraham Justified by Faith
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this
matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to
boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? “Abraham
believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a
4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as
an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who
justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says
the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God
credits righteousness apart from works:
7“Blessed are they
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him.”b
9Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised
? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as
righteousness. 10Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he
was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11And he received
the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith
while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who
believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be
credited to them. 12And he is also the father of the circumcised who not
only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that
our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise
that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that
comes by faith. 14For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value
and the promise is worthless, 15because law brings wrath. And where there
is no law there is no transgression.
16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may
be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the
law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of
us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”c
He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives
life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of
many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.
”d 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as
good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s
womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the
promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God,
21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.
22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it
was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to
whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised
Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25He was delivered over to death for our sins
and was raised to life for our justification.
评论：Paul跟个唐僧似的。
10As
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 3:9-20 No One Is Righteous
: 9What shall we conclude then? Are we any betterb? Not at all! We have
: already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As
: it is written:
: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
: 11there is no one who understands,
: no one who seeks God.
: 12All have turned away,
: they have together become worthless;
: there is no one who does good,
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 26 Romans 5: Peace and Joy
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, wea have peace with
God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by
faith into this grace in which we now stand. And web rejoice in the hope of
the glory of God. 3Not only so, but wec also rejoice in our sufferings,
because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance,
character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because
God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has
given us.
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died
for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though
for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his
own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be
saved from God’s wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God’s enemies,
we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more,
having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is
this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through
whom we have now received reconciliation.
Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death
through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—
13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken
into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the
time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by
breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the
trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that
came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The
judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed
many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the
one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who
receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness
reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all
men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that
brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one
man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man
the many will be made righteous.
20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin
increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in
death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
评论：真无聊。
to
comes
did
the
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 3:21-31 Righteousness Through Faith
: 21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to
: which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes
: through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are
: justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ
: Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,i through faith in
: his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his
: forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did
: it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 27 Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don’t
you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized
into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into
death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the
glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly
also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self
was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,a
that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has
been freed from sin.
8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again
; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin
once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ
Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey
its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as
instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who
have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to
him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master,
because you are not under law, but under grace.
Slaves to Righteousness
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By
no means! 16Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to
obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are
slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to
righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to
sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were
entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to
righteousness.
19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves.
Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and
to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness
leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the
control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the
things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that
you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit
you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages
of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life inb Christ Jesus our
Lord.
评论：义理分析真无聊。
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 4:Abraham Justified by Faith
: 1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this
: matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to
: boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? “Abraham
: believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a
: 4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as
: an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who
: justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says
: the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God
: credits righteousness apart from works:
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 28 An Illustration From Marriage
1Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that
the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by
law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if
her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she
marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an
adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is
not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.
4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that
you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order
that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful
nature,a the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies,
so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us,
we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the
Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
Struggling With Sin
7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not
have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known
what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”b 8But
sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me
every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was
alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and
I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life
actually brought death. 11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the
commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So
then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in
order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through
what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly
sinful.
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave
to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do,
but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that
the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is
sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my
sinful nature.c For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry
it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not
want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do,
it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there
with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see
another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of
my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my
members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of
death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful
nature a slave to the law of sin.
评论：不看了，太无聊了。
increase?
t
self
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 6
: Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
: 1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
: 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don’t
: you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized
: into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into
: death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the
: glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
: 5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly
: also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | | D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 30 我觉得这家伙太有耐心了，这么一大堆理论，讲得一套一套的，跟唐僧似的。
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
: Paul 又勝利了
| | | A*********e
发帖数: 4361 | 31 你不觉得你更唐么
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得这家伙太有耐心了，这么一大堆理论，讲得一套一套的，跟唐僧似的。
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 32 這就是Paul 派大勝耶穌門徒派的原因
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得这家伙太有耐心了，这么一大堆理论，讲得一套一套的，跟唐僧似的。
| s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 33 查的太不认真了
罗马书我翻的比较多，基督徒的逻辑混乱多是从这罗马书来的，
罗马书的意义，我看是让基督徒不必严格遵守律法，让懒散的基督徒吃了定心丸
另一方面是高举神的主权，人不要问神为什么，因为人不配，
总之，保罗要大家有逻辑的排斥旧律法，无逻辑的崇拜神
新约从罗马书，使徒形状，到后面的几篇，最操当的话是外帮人都是黑暗里的行尸
我觉得判断一个正真的基督徒，就是基督徒默认自己的父辈祖辈祖宗都是行尸
in
entrusted
God’s
it is
clearly,
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 3: 1-8 God’s Faithfulness
: 1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in
: circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted
: with the very words of God.
: 3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s
: faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is
: written:
: “So that you may be proved right when you speak
: and prevail when you judge.”a
: 5But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly,
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 34
據我調查， 本版一個真基督徒都沒有。 包括本版罪魁。
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: 查的太不认真了
: 罗马书我翻的比较多，基督徒的逻辑混乱多是从这罗马书来的，
: 罗马书的意义，我看是让基督徒不必严格遵守律法，让懒散的基督徒吃了定心丸
: 另一方面是高举神的主权，人不要问神为什么，因为人不配，
: 总之，保罗要大家有逻辑的排斥旧律法，无逻辑的崇拜神
: 新约从罗马书，使徒形状，到后面的几篇，最操当的话是外帮人都是黑暗里的行尸
: 我觉得判断一个正真的基督徒，就是基督徒默认自己的父辈祖辈祖宗都是行尸
:
: in
: entrusted
| s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 35 我是说默认，我不信罪魁没默认，其实明说不会跟父母亲人一起下地狱的，就差不多是
默认他们是行尸了
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: 據我調查， 本版一個真基督徒都沒有。 包括本版罪魁。
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 36 多谢解释。我就是被Paul的各种疑问反问设问折腾烦了，等我再看的时候，我就看主要
论点就好了，论证过程让Paul自己折腾去吧。
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: 查的太不认真了
: 罗马书我翻的比较多，基督徒的逻辑混乱多是从这罗马书来的，
: 罗马书的意义，我看是让基督徒不必严格遵守律法，让懒散的基督徒吃了定心丸
: 另一方面是高举神的主权，人不要问神为什么，因为人不配，
: 总之，保罗要大家有逻辑的排斥旧律法，无逻辑的崇拜神
: 新约从罗马书，使徒形状，到后面的几篇，最操当的话是外帮人都是黑暗里的行尸
: 我觉得判断一个正真的基督徒，就是基督徒默认自己的父辈祖辈祖宗都是行尸
:
: in
: entrusted
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 37 Romans 7:7-25 The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless,
I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would
not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You
shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the
commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law,
sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the
commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very
commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For
sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and
through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and
the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means!
Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is
good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might
become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave
to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do
, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree
that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but
it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me,
that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good,
but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the
evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do
not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that
does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right
there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I
see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and
making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched
man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25
Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful
nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.
评论：Paul继续讲罪和律法的关系。说人本质上是罪的奴隶，但是顺服基督教的神可以
变成基督教的神的奴隶。种种种种。
husband
of
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 多谢解释。我就是被Paul的各种疑问反问设问折腾烦了，等我再看的时候，我就看主要
: 论点就好了，论证过程让Paul自己折腾去吧。
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 38 Romans 8:1-17 Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has
set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was
powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending
his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so
he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of
the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but
according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the
flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their
minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is
death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind
governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law,
nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please
God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of
the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not
have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ
is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin,
the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of
him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ
from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his
Spirit who lives in you.
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to
the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the
flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of
the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear
again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to
sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself
testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are
children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if
indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his
glory.
评论: 待续
,
would
,
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 7:7-25 The Law and Sin
: 7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless,
: I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would
: not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You
: shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the
: commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law,
: sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the
: commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very
: commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For
: sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 39 Romans 8: 1-17 Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set
you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless
to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own
Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he
condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the
law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but
according to the Spirit.
【评：这一段是解释，吃犹太僵尸王出品的法国菜，不会受到谴责，因为食物的作用把
你从饥饿和死亡的作用下解放出来。普通的食物不管用，因为人是很脆弱的，“法国菜
头”把祂唯一的儿子--犹太僵尸王派来，表面上看是个饿鬼，但实际上是个祭品。吃犹
太僵尸王的菜一切口感都是浮云，完全是彻彻底底的解饿啊。】
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the
flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their
minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is
death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind
governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law,
nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please
God.
【评：那些吃普通食物的人，只知道口感口感，他们哪知道什么是真正的食物？人要是
被口感完全支配就死了，只有吃法国菜，才有真正的生命和安宁。那些被口感控制了的
人敌视“法国菜头”，不依靠法国菜的神圣作用，也不可能体会到。那些只知道口感的
人不会受到“法国菜头”的青睐。】
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of
the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not
have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ
is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin,
the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of
him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ
from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his
Spirit who lives in you.
【评：但是你们（法国菜粉），不是口感的奴隶，而是知道真正的食物，法国菜真真正
正的进入你们的体内。如果任何人没有受到做法国菜的犹太僵尸王的感染，他们就不属
于犹太僵尸王。但是如果你已经受到犹太僵尸王感染，虽然你肉体还是有可能饿死，法
国菜赐予你生命。那让犹太僵尸王起死回生的力量，现在就在你体内了。】
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to
the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the
flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of
the body, you will live.
【评：因此，兄弟姐妹，我们是需要吃法国菜的--但不是因为口感。如果你靠口感活着
，你会死的，但是靠着法国菜，你吧自身的一切饥饿都解了，你就活了。】
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear
again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to
sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself
testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are
children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if
indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his
glory.
【评：吃法国菜的人，是法国菜头的孩子啊，你吃到的食物没有把你变成奴隶让你生活
在敬畏中，相反，你吃的食物使你成为法国菜头的孩子。我们会哭喊着叫法国菜头“爸
爸”。我们是祂的孩子，也就是祂的继承人，是法国菜头的继承人，跟犹太僵尸王一样
。我们跟犹太僵尸王一样会承受痛苦，也会一样享受荣耀。】
Jesus
sending
so
of
but | D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 40 Romans 1:1-7
1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for
the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets
in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a
descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared
with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus
Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace
and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience
that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to
belong to Jesus Christ.
7To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
评论：保罗的信仰很大气，不一定神学上很系统，但是语气坚定大义凛然。政治上很开
明，说话很清晰扎实，点出了信仰导致服从，这点从政治上是很有效的，服从嘛，不服
不行。
看起来书信是写给在罗马的信徒的，号召有志者来当传教士。 | | | D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 41 Romans 1:8-17 Paul’s Longing to Visit Rome
8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your
faith is being reported all over the world. 9God, whom I serve with my whole
heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I
remember you 10in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by
God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.
11I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make
you strong— 12that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each
other’s faith. 13I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I planned
many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now)
in order that I might have a harvest among you, just as I have had among the
other Gentiles.
14I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the
foolish. 15That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who
are at Rome.
16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the
salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness
that is by faith from first to last,c just as it is written: “The righteous
will live by faith.”d
评论: 8,9,10开篇3句，句句有神名，诉说对罗马信徒的想念，说的情深意切，如果有
人要是提上帝不存在，那么是很伤感情的。
11-13，诉说分享精神信仰的渴望。保罗真诚得像一个政治家一样，很有魅力。言语中
体现出一种豪迈的大爱。
14-17，保罗说明向罗马人传教的愿望。保罗这里体现出的思想境界，仿佛一个高僧、
第一流的人文主义作家，精神气质一脉相通。接着他解释信福音的好处，在前面提过信
仰和服从之后，这里又提到信仰和正直的关系。
保罗的思想连贯通顺，信写的堪称典范，既正式、严肃，又情感充沛，我们现在为什么
不这么写信、发帖了？
龙应台觉得作家分三种，“坏的作家暴露自己的愚昧，好的作家使你看见愚昧，伟大的
作家使你看见愚昧的同时认出自己的原型而涌出最深刻的悲悯。”
保罗大概可以算是有伟大作家的气质。
for
prophets
a
obedience
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 1:1-7
: 1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for
: the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets
: in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a
: descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared
: with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus
: Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace
: and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience
: that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to
: belong to Jesus Christ.
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 42 Romans 1：18-32 God’s Wrath Against Mankind
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness
and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since
what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain
to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—
his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave
thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts
were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and
exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal
man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to
sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They
exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created
things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women
exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men
also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for
one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in
themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the
knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not
to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil,
greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and
malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and
boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they
are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s
righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only
continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
评论： 这是一长段对非基督徒的污蔑，是目前为止我读到的圣经里最连贯通顺容易理
解段落。
(待续）
whole
make
planned
)
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 1:8-17 Paul’s Longing to Visit Rome
: 8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your
: faith is being reported all over the world. 9God, whom I serve with my whole
: heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I
: remember you 10in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by
: God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.
: 11I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make
: you strong— 12that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each
: other’s faith. 13I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I planned
: many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now)
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 43 講到保羅書信的文體風格， 有人研究出有幾封不可能
是保羅寫的。 | A*********e
发帖数: 4361 | 44 seems you're very interested in Paul
for
prophets
a
obedience
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 1:1-7
: 1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for
: the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets
: in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a
: descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared
: with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus
: Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace
: and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience
: that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to
: belong to Jesus Christ.
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 45 耶鲁那个讲座里提了说，给基督教奠基的就是Paul。
基督教就不是耶稣的，根本就是Paul的价值观，包括基督教的教会也不是耶稣的教会，
而是Paul、Peter等使徒的教会。Paul利用耶稣的形象，把种种正直的品格树立起来，
人做不到这些完美的品格，就被叫做罪，通过把罪钉死在十字架上，来逐步改善。十字
架根本就不是耶稣的十字架，是Paul的十字架，是Paul把耶稣钉死在十字架上的。
耶稣只是强调最终会实现Kingdom of God,是Paul把耶稣打成神，然后说耶稣会再来。
基督徒在等审判，现在都2000年了，审判还没来，喊狼来了也不能喊这么久吧。
Paul的人品还算正直，他主张破除偶像，改祭活神，实际上是用他自己作为行为模范来
教化他人。
如果不是信心到了顽固的程度，到了反科学，迫害别人的程度，其实Paul的风格我还挺
喜欢，但是这种风格非常容易导致迫害，导致过分的自信和顽固。
【在 A*********e 的大作中提到】
: seems you're very interested in Paul
:
: for
: prophets
: a
: obedience
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 46 耶鲁讲新约的那个人给了一个概括说
罗马书， 1 corinthians, 2 corinthians, galatians, Philipias, 1 Thess,
Philemon
这7本一般认为是他写的，
1-2 Timothy，Titus 一般认为不是他写的。
2 Thess, Colossians, Ephesians存疑，可疑程度从小到大。
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
: 講到保羅書信的文體風格， 有人研究出有幾封不可能
: 是保羅寫的。
| l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 47 基本认同，不过保罗真存在么？
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 耶鲁那个讲座里提了说，给基督教奠基的就是Paul。
: 基督教就不是耶稣的，根本就是Paul的价值观，包括基督教的教会也不是耶稣的教会，
: 而是Paul、Peter等使徒的教会。Paul利用耶稣的形象，把种种正直的品格树立起来，
: 人做不到这些完美的品格，就被叫做罪，通过把罪钉死在十字架上，来逐步改善。十字
: 架根本就不是耶稣的十字架，是Paul的十字架，是Paul把耶稣钉死在十字架上的。
: 耶稣只是强调最终会实现Kingdom of God,是Paul把耶稣打成神，然后说耶稣会再来。
: 基督徒在等审判，现在都2000年了，审判还没来，喊狼来了也不能喊这么久吧。
: Paul的人品还算正直，他主张破除偶像，改祭活神，实际上是用他自己作为行为模范来
: 教化他人。
: 如果不是信心到了顽固的程度，到了反科学，迫害别人的程度，其实Paul的风格我还挺
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 48 我怀疑有这么个人，但是除了信也没什么证据。就像孔子似的。
文字保存时间可真长。
【在 l*****a 的大作中提到】
: 基本认同，不过保罗真存在么？
| l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 49 肯定有这么个奠基的存在，不过我怀疑是几个人
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 我怀疑有这么个人，但是除了信也没什么证据。就像孔子似的。
: 文字保存时间可真长。
| l*******e
发帖数: 3584 | 50 使徒保罗身份背景
1. 希伯来文名扫罗(徒7:58)，生于基利家的大数(徒22:3-4)；纯犹太人，便雅敏支派
，父亲是法利赛人(徒23:6)，少年时到耶路撒冷城法利赛人迦玛列(徒5:34)的门下受严
紧律法教育(徒22:3)，守全613条诫命(腓3:4-6)，热心犹太教的遗传(加1:14)，极力逼
迫残害基督徒(徒8:3, 加1:13)。
2. 生来就是罗马公民(徒22:28, 16:37, 25:11)，熟悉希腊学问(徒17:28, 多1:12)，
以造帐蓬为业(徒18:3)。
3. 在前往大马色逮捕基督徒路上遇见主，并在大马色受洗归主(徒9:22-26)。
4. 有使徒的身份(加1:12)，并被称为外邦人的使徒(罗11:13, 徒9:15, 22:21, 加1:16
, 2:7, 弗3:8)，拉丁文名保罗(Paullus徒13:9)可能为益于与外邦人沟通。
使徒保罗对基督教的影响力
1. 福音藉保罗广传给外邦人。
2. 新约27本书中13本(48%)为保罗所着。
3. 阐明﹑辩护新约神学﹑教义﹑与教会真理。 | | | E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 51 保羅的存在很少被懷疑， 即使在非基當中，
耶穌大概勸了幾十人信他， 保羅則招募了
成千上萬的信徒， 保羅才是真正基督教創始人。 | l*******e
发帖数: 3584 | 52 他的存在没有什么需要证明的，他的身份有趣之处在于他从反基的先锋
到基督教的使徒之一。也在于他从一个严格守律法的法利赛人变成了一个
明白救恩是从信来的，而律法是让人知罪的基督徒。
如果他不成为基督徒，以他的罗马公民的身份，以他的出身他可以有令人
尊敬的地位和安宜的生活。可是成了基督徒，他不但要到处奔波，还要受
牢狱之苦，生活也是靠自己做帐蓬来维持。
教会是建在彼得之上的，说保罗建立教会还谈一不上。
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
: 保羅的存在很少被懷疑， 即使在非基當中，
: 耶穌大概勸了幾十人信他， 保羅則招募了
: 成千上萬的信徒， 保羅才是真正基督教創始人。
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 53
你也可以那麼說摩門那個史密司
彼得做過什麼事? 招了多少門徒？ 跟保羅根本不是一個數量級的。
【在 l*******e 的大作中提到】
: 他的存在没有什么需要证明的，他的身份有趣之处在于他从反基的先锋
: 到基督教的使徒之一。也在于他从一个严格守律法的法利赛人变成了一个
: 明白救恩是从信来的，而律法是让人知罪的基督徒。
: 如果他不成为基督徒，以他的罗马公民的身份，以他的出身他可以有令人
: 尊敬的地位和安宜的生活。可是成了基督徒，他不但要到处奔波，还要受
: 牢狱之苦，生活也是靠自己做帐蓬来维持。
: 教会是建在彼得之上的，说保罗建立教会还谈一不上。
| l*******e
发帖数: 3584 | 54 就彼得（抄来的）。但这也说明了为什么说教会是建在彼得之上的。
1.五旬節勇敢見證 - 聖靈於五旬節時降在門徒身上，吸引很多人圍觀，彼得就站起來
，高聲為主作
見證，引領很多人悔改信主（使徒行傳二章），從此以後，雖然遭遇逼迫，反對，他不
再退縮，反而
更加勇敢為主工作。
2.多行神蹟 – 彼得藉著神的同在，行了很多神蹟，來證明主的真理，如使瘸腿者行走
（徒3：1-
10）。
3.首次向外邦人傳道 – 彼得在主的指示下，到敬虔的義大利人哥尼流（Cornelius）
家裡，向他們
講述主耶穌的救恩，因見聖靈降在他們身上，就為他們施洗，首開向外邦人傳道之例，
顯明主耶穌救
恩要普及萬人，使信主之人不再分種族，階級，共組神的家。
4.教會之治理
1.行審判：使徒時代教會成立之出，有許多人因愛主愛人，把自己的全部產業賣
了，並且全
部款項奉獻給教會（徒4：34），其中有位信徒名叫亞拿尼亞，夫妻二人也把田產賣了
，但信心不足
又好面子，把部分價銀私留下來，其餘的拿到使徒面前，而稱那是全部價銀，彼得被聖
靈感動，立即
指出他們的過錯，而這對夫婦也相繼死亡（徒5：1-11）。
2.立執事：那時信主的人增加迅速，大家又凡物公用，一起生活，因此為了使徒
生活供給之
事能妥善處理，就令門徒選立出執事（徒6：1-6），解決了供給之事。
对于史密司，我无语。
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: 你也可以那麼說摩門那個史密司
: 彼得做過什麼事? 招了多少門徒？ 跟保羅根本不是一個數量級的。
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 55 彼得不是沒做事， 表演了魔術， 殺了些人， 是有的。
不像保羅， 大半新約都是他寫的， 凡是耶穌說的衝突到
保羅說的一律以保羅為準，誰比他牛？
【在 l*******e 的大作中提到】
: 就彼得（抄来的）。但这也说明了为什么说教会是建在彼得之上的。
: 1.五旬節勇敢見證 - 聖靈於五旬節時降在門徒身上，吸引很多人圍觀，彼得就站起來
: ，高聲為主作
: 見證，引領很多人悔改信主（使徒行傳二章），從此以後，雖然遭遇逼迫，反對，他不
: 再退縮，反而
: 更加勇敢為主工作。
: 2.多行神蹟 – 彼得藉著神的同在，行了很多神蹟，來證明主的真理，如使瘸腿者行走
: （徒3：1-
: 10）。
: 3.首次向外邦人傳道 – 彼得在主的指示下，到敬虔的義大利人哥尼流（Cornelius）
| l*******e
发帖数: 3584 | 56 这你真的错了。
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
: 彼得不是沒做事， 表演了魔術， 殺了些人， 是有的。
: 不像保羅， 大半新約都是他寫的， 凡是耶穌說的衝突到
: 保羅說的一律以保羅為準，誰比他牛？
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 57 展開說說
【在 l*******e 的大作中提到】
: 这你真的错了。
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 58 继续评论：
承接上文提到的正直与信仰的关系。Paul这里发表激情演说，诉说人们不信他的话就是
邪恶。Paul又解释信上帝已经有了这么多善果，人没有理由不信复活。
Paul尤其指责那些明明知道福音，却不信的人，说他们不用这套“信仰上帝促进人的正
直”的体系，却去崇拜会死的人，鸟，动物，爬行动物。
重点指出人之大欲--性欲，如果不用信仰来约束，就容易变态。
Paul眼中上帝的惩罚，就是这些不信上帝的人的种种恶习恶行。
Paul的这番指责义正辞严，如果他说的耶稣复活和控制一切监管一切的上帝真的存在的
话，倒不失为一种严厉的道德体系，就像儒家思想，但是和儒家思想一样，高调的道德
标准极容易导致虚伪和迫害。
godlessness
plain
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 1：18-32 God’s Wrath Against Mankind
: 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness
: and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since
: what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain
: to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—
: his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being
: understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
: 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave
: thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts
: were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 59 Romans 2:1-16 God’s Righteous Judgment
1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for
at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because
you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God’s judgment
against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man
, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will
escape God’s judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his
kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads
you toward repentance?
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are
storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his
righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will give to each person
according to what he has done.”a 7To those who by persistence in doing good
seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for
those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there
will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human
being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory,
honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the
Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and
all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those
who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey
the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do
not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law
for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that
the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences
also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending
them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
评论：Paul前面还用“他们”作为指责的对象，这里明目张胆的用起了“你们”，回想
前文亲切的问候，到这里的赤裸裸的威胁，谩骂，对比强烈。
Paul的雄辩技巧非常蛮横，先把对方的嘴堵上，说“不要对别人做判断”，基本跟“他
人眼中的刺”“自己眼中的梁木”等是同类的策略，强调对别人错误（也就是Paul的小
错误）要容忍。Paul说对方顽固，却没意识到他自己也顽固的要死。
接下来主要的观点，就是神会来审判的，做坏事的都要受惩罚，做好事的受奖励。如果
真有这样的审判，当然很好，人类道德水平会提升。但是都喊了2000年要审判了，还不
审，谎话就穿帮了。即使有道德提升的作用，用谎话来提升道德也过于虚伪。
另外就是消除犹太人和外族人的区别，强调用敬畏耶稣，敬畏神，作为唯一的标准。
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 继续评论：
: 承接上文提到的正直与信仰的关系。Paul这里发表激情演说，诉说人们不信他的话就是
: 邪恶。Paul又解释信上帝已经有了这么多善果，人没有理由不信复活。
: Paul尤其指责那些明明知道福音，却不信的人，说他们不用这套“信仰上帝促进人的正
: 直”的体系，却去崇拜会死的人，鸟，动物，爬行动物。
: 重点指出人之大欲--性欲，如果不用信仰来约束，就容易变态。
: Paul眼中上帝的惩罚，就是这些不信上帝的人的种种恶习恶行。
: Paul的这番指责义正辞严，如果他说的耶稣复活和控制一切监管一切的上帝真的存在的
: 话，倒不失为一种严厉的道德体系，就像儒家思想，但是和儒家思想一样，高调的道德
: 标准极容易导致虚伪和迫害。
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 60 Romans 2:17-29 The Jews and the Law
17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about
your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is
superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that
you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an
instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law
the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do
you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You
who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You
who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you
dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: “God’s name is
blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”b
25Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law,
you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26If those who are
not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as
though they were circumcised? 27The one who is not circumcised physically
and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have thec
written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely
outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and
circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written
code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.
评论：前面是教训那些不敬神的，这里是教训自以为是选民的犹太人。首先是用高调的
道德标准去提醒犹太人，是否比外族人做得更好？然后提到割包皮不如遵守法律重要。
这一段关于遵守法律的要求，对于现在的基督徒也应该有警示作用。
Paul的这几段话，意思连贯，情感充沛，骂得酣畅淋漓。我觉得律法中好的部分，不用
上帝来约束，同样也有，律法中不适应时代的要求，反而成了障碍。最初犹太人那里，
律法和上帝是一体的，现在的社会，法律早已经和上帝分离。所以是否有道德，是否遵
守法律，与敬畏上帝的关系越来越分离开了。
for
because
judgment
man
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 2:1-16 God’s Righteous Judgment
: 1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for
: at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because
: you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God’s judgment
: against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man
: , pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will
: escape God’s judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his
: kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads
: you toward repentance?
: 5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are
| | | D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 61 Romans 3: 1-8 God’s Faithfulness
1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in
circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted
with the very words of God.
3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s
faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is
written:
“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”a
5But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly,
what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am
using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God
judge the world? 7Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s
truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a
sinner?” 8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and
as some claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their
condemnation is deserved.
评论：这一段Paul论证犹太人的优先，论证不信的人更证明了上帝的正义。
about
that
law
22You
You
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 2:17-29 The Jews and the Law
: 17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about
: your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is
: superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that
: you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an
: instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law
: the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do
: you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You
: who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You
: who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 62 Romans 3:9-20 No One Is Righteous
9What shall we conclude then? Are we any betterb? Not at all! We have
already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As
it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”c
13“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”d
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”e
14“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”f
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know.”g
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”h
19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the
law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held
accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his
sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of
sin.
评论:Paul先是强调没有人是在上帝面前无罪的，犹太人的律法只能让他们自己更知罪。
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 3: 1-8 God’s Faithfulness
: 1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in
: circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted
: with the very words of God.
: 3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s
: faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is
: written:
: “So that you may be proved right when you speak
: and prevail when you judge.”a
: 5But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly,
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 63 Romans 3:21-31 Righteousness Through Faith
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to
which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes
through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ
Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,i through faith in
his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his
forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did
it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the
one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of
observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is
justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews
only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there
is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the
uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by
this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
评论：Paul强调信耶稣就能带来正直，只要信就成，不用事工。但犹太人还是要守法的。
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 3: 1-8 God’s Faithfulness
: 1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in
: circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted
: with the very words of God.
: 3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s
: faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is
: written:
: “So that you may be proved right when you speak
: and prevail when you judge.”a
: 5But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly,
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 64 Romans 4:Abraham Justified by Faith
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this
matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to
boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? “Abraham
believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a
4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as
an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who
justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says
the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God
credits righteousness apart from works:
7“Blessed are they
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him.”b
9Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised
? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as
righteousness. 10Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he
was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11And he received
the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith
while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who
believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be
credited to them. 12And he is also the father of the circumcised who not
only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that
our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise
that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that
comes by faith. 14For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value
and the promise is worthless, 15because law brings wrath. And where there
is no law there is no transgression.
16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may
be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the
law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of
us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”c
He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives
life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of
many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.
”d 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as
good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s
womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the
promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God,
21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.
22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it
was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to
whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised
Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25He was delivered over to death for our sins
and was raised to life for our justification.
评论：Paul继续解释信仰和守法的联系，尤其解释Abraham等先祖的守法和信仰的联系。
说了一大堆，希望人忘了他前面说靠信仰就成了，外邦人不用守法。
10As
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 3:9-20 No One Is Righteous
: 9What shall we conclude then? Are we any betterb? Not at all! We have
: already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As
: it is written:
: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
: 11there is no one who understands,
: no one who seeks God.
: 12All have turned away,
: they have together become worthless;
: there is no one who does good,
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 65 Romans 5: Peace and Joy
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, wea have peace with
God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by
faith into this grace in which we now stand. And web rejoice in the hope of
the glory of God. 3Not only so, but wec also rejoice in our sufferings,
because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance,
character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because
God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has
given us.
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died
for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though
for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his
own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be
saved from God’s wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God’s enemies,
we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more,
having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is
this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through
whom we have now received reconciliation.
Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death
through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—
13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken
into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the
time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by
breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the
trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that
came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The
judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed
many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the
one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who
receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness
reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all
men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that
brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one
man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man
the many will be made righteous.
20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin
increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in
death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
评论：Paul说信仰带来平和和希望。然后说，我们都不信的时候，耶稣为了我们牺牲了。
耶稣的血让我们得救，耶稣还会更多的把我们从神的愤怒上解救下来。当我们还是上帝
敌人的时候，耶稣的死就使我们得救，我们信了之后，耶稣的复活更会带来多大的解救
啊。不仅如此，通过主耶稣我们吹神的牛逼，就是通过耶稣我们现在得以信神。
然后一段典型的逻辑推理，就像永生常用的那样。论述罪和律法的关系，亚当那时没有
律法，但是罪让所有人都死了，从亚当到摩西。
但是上帝的赐予不像上帝的惩罚。一个人犯罪，上帝整死很多人。耶稣一个人荣耀上帝
，很多人都跟着荣耀。上帝的赐予也不像惩罚，犯罪就整死了，赐予却是伴随着很多次
的违反和矫正。
如此如此。
Paul通过这一段论述，强调信耶稣的惩恶扬善作用。
to
comes
did
the
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 3:21-31 Righteousness Through Faith
: 21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to
: which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes
: through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are
: justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ
: Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,i through faith in
: his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his
: forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did
: it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 66 Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don’t
you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized
into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into
death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the
glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly
also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self
was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,a
that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has
been freed from sin.
8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again
; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin
once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ
Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey
its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as
instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who
have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to
him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master,
because you are not under law, but under grace.
Slaves to Righteousness
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By
no means! 16Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to
obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are
slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to
righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to
sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were
entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to
righteousness.
19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves.
Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and
to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness
leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the
control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the
things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that
you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit
you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages
of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life inb Christ Jesus our
Lord.
评论：Paul继续说洗礼进耶稣了，罪我就跟着死了，然后复活成新生命。
客观的说，Paul这里是提出了一个伦理上改过自新的模型，这个模型和耶稣复活的迷信
结合在一起有了神秘的感染力。
人通过洗礼，罪死了，重新活在基督教神的指导下。这样使身体不受邪恶罪欲的控制，
正直的活着。这样人就从罪的奴隶，变成正直的奴隶了。
儒家也有修身模型，如果能用其他更好的修身模型代替这个迷信的宗教就好了。
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 4:Abraham Justified by Faith
: 1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this
: matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to
: boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? “Abraham
: believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a
: 4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as
: an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who
: justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says
: the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God
: credits righteousness apart from works:
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 67 Romans 7：1-6 Released From the Law, Bound to Christ
1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who
know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that
person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband
as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the
law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with
another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress.
But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an
adulteress if she marries another man.
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of
Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the
dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the
realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work
in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once
bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way
of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
评论：这一段牛逼，不用守律法了，主要靠信耶稣自我拯救。即使犯法也让人有继续改
过的机会，政治上太牛逼了，统一战线很广泛啊！
increase?
t
self
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 6
: Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
: 1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
: 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don’t
: you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized
: into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into
: death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the
: glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
: 5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly
: also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | | D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 69 我觉得这家伙太有耐心了，这么一大堆理论，讲得一套一套的，跟唐僧似的。
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
: Paul 又勝利了
| A*********e
发帖数: 4361 | 70 你不觉得你更唐么
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得这家伙太有耐心了，这么一大堆理论，讲得一套一套的，跟唐僧似的。
| | | E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 71 這就是Paul 派大勝耶穌門徒派的原因
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得这家伙太有耐心了，这么一大堆理论，讲得一套一套的，跟唐僧似的。
| s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 72 查的太不认真了
罗马书我翻的比较多，基督徒的逻辑混乱多是从这罗马书来的，
罗马书的意义，我看是让基督徒不必严格遵守律法，让懒散的基督徒吃了定心丸
另一方面是高举神的主权，人不要问神为什么，因为人不配，
总之，保罗要大家有逻辑的排斥旧律法，无逻辑的崇拜神
新约从罗马书，使徒形状，到后面的几篇，最操当的话是外帮人都是黑暗里的行尸
我觉得判断一个正真的基督徒，就是基督徒默认自己的父辈祖辈祖宗都是行尸
in
entrusted
God’s
it is
clearly,
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 3: 1-8 God’s Faithfulness
: 1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in
: circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted
: with the very words of God.
: 3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s
: faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is
: written:
: “So that you may be proved right when you speak
: and prevail when you judge.”a
: 5But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly,
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 73
據我調查， 本版一個真基督徒都沒有。 包括本版罪魁。
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: 查的太不认真了
: 罗马书我翻的比较多，基督徒的逻辑混乱多是从这罗马书来的，
: 罗马书的意义，我看是让基督徒不必严格遵守律法，让懒散的基督徒吃了定心丸
: 另一方面是高举神的主权，人不要问神为什么，因为人不配，
: 总之，保罗要大家有逻辑的排斥旧律法，无逻辑的崇拜神
: 新约从罗马书，使徒形状，到后面的几篇，最操当的话是外帮人都是黑暗里的行尸
: 我觉得判断一个正真的基督徒，就是基督徒默认自己的父辈祖辈祖宗都是行尸
:
: in
: entrusted
| s***u
发帖数: 1911 | 74 我是说默认，我不信罪魁没默认，其实明说不会跟父母亲人一起下地狱的，就差不多是
默认他们是行尸了
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: 據我調查， 本版一個真基督徒都沒有。 包括本版罪魁。
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 75 多谢解释。我就是被Paul的各种疑问反问设问折腾烦了，等我再看的时候，我就看主要
论点就好了，论证过程让Paul自己折腾去吧。
【在 s***u 的大作中提到】
: 查的太不认真了
: 罗马书我翻的比较多，基督徒的逻辑混乱多是从这罗马书来的，
: 罗马书的意义，我看是让基督徒不必严格遵守律法，让懒散的基督徒吃了定心丸
: 另一方面是高举神的主权，人不要问神为什么，因为人不配，
: 总之，保罗要大家有逻辑的排斥旧律法，无逻辑的崇拜神
: 新约从罗马书，使徒形状，到后面的几篇，最操当的话是外帮人都是黑暗里的行尸
: 我觉得判断一个正真的基督徒，就是基督徒默认自己的父辈祖辈祖宗都是行尸
:
: in
: entrusted
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 76 Romans 7:7-25 The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless,
I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would
not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You
shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the
commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law,
sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the
commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very
commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For
sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and
through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and
the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means!
Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is
good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might
become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave
to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do
, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree
that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but
it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me,
that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good,
but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the
evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do
not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that
does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right
there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I
see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and
making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched
man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25
Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful
nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.
评论：Paul继续讲罪和律法的关系。说人本质上是罪的奴隶，但是顺服基督教的神可以
变成基督教的神的奴隶。种种种种。
husband
of
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 7：1-6 Released From the Law, Bound to Christ
: 1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who
: know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that
: person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband
: as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the
: law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with
: another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress.
: But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an
: adulteress if she marries another man.
: 4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 77 Romans 8:1-17 Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has
set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was
powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending
his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so
he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of
the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but
according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the
flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their
minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is
death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind
governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law,
nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please
God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of
the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not
have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ
is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin,
the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of
him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ
from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his
Spirit who lives in you.
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to
the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the
flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of
the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear
again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to
sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself
testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are
children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if
indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his
glory.
评论: 待续
,
would
,
【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 7:7-25 The Law and Sin
: 7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless,
: I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would
: not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You
: shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the
: commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law,
: sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the
: commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very
: commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For
: sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and
| D*****r
发帖数: 6791 | 78 Romans 8: 1-17 Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set
you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless
to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own
Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he
condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the
law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but
according to the Spirit.
【评：这一段是解释，吃犹太僵尸王出品的法国菜，不会受到谴责，因为食物的作用把
你从饥饿和死亡的作用下解放出来。普通的食物不管用，因为人是很脆弱的，“法国菜
头”把祂唯一的儿子--犹太僵尸王派来，表面上看是个饿鬼，但实际上是个祭品。吃犹
太僵尸王的菜一切口感都是浮云，完全是彻彻底底的解饿啊。】
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the
flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their
minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is
death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind
governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law,
nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please
God.
【评：那些吃普通食物的人，只知道口感口感，他们哪知道什么是真正的食物？人要是
被口感完全支配就死了，只有吃法国菜，才有真正的生命和安宁。那些被口感控制了的
人敌视“法国菜头”，不依靠法国菜的神圣作用，也不可能体会到。那些只知道口感的
人不会受到“法国菜头”的青睐。】
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of
the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not
have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ
is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin,
the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of
him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ
from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his
Spirit who lives in you.
【评：但是你们（法国菜粉），不是口感的奴隶，而是知道真正的食物，法国菜真真正
正的进入你们的体内。如果任何人没有受到做法国菜的犹太僵尸王的感染，他们就不属
于犹太僵尸王。但是如果你已经受到犹太僵尸王感染，虽然你肉体还是有可能饿死，法
国菜赐予你生命。那让犹太僵尸王起死回生的力量，现在就在你体内了。】
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to
the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the
flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of
the body, you will live.
【评：因此，兄弟姐妹，我们是需要吃法国菜的--但不是因为口感。如果你靠口感活着
，你会死的，但是靠着法国菜，你吧自身的一切饥饿都解了，你就活了。】
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear
again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to
sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself
testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are
children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if
indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his
glory.
【评：吃法国菜的人，是法国菜头的孩子啊，你吃到的食物没有把你变成奴隶让你生活
在敬畏中，相反，你吃的食物使你成为法国菜头的孩子。我们会哭喊着叫法国菜头“爸
爸”。我们是祂的孩子，也就是祂的继承人，是法国菜头的继承人，跟犹太僵尸王一样
。我们跟犹太僵尸王一样会承受痛苦，也会一样享受荣耀。】
Jesus
sending
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but | R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 79 zan
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【在 D*****r 的大作中提到】
: Romans 1:1-7
: 1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for
: the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets
: in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a
: descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared
: with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus
: Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace
: and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience
: that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to
: belong to Jesus Christ.
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