E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 1 http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2022523931_christmasst
Poll: Fewer Americans believe story of Nativity
Just under half of Americans believe the biblical accounts surrounding
Christmas — such as the virgin birth, angels and wise men — are
historically accurate.
By Peter Smith
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Angels splitting the sky to bring good news to shepherds; wise men following
a miraculous star; a virgin giving birth to a messiah in a quiet stable.
These are the themes that churches around the world are celebrating
Wednesday in song, Scripture and sermon in one of the most sacred days on
their calendar.
But when preachers look out on Christmas Eve at their congregations they may
be facing more skeptics than they used to.
Just under half of Americans believe the biblical accounts surrounding
Christmas — such as the virgin birth, angels and wise men — are
historically accurate.
That’s according to a survey by the Public Religion Research Institute and
Religion News Service, which found that an additional 40 percent of
people believe the narratives comprise a “theological story.”
In 2004, in contrast, two-thirds of Americans believed in the historical
truth of the entire biblical Nativity accounts, according to a Newsweek poll.
“I don’t try and prove how right the Nativity” story is, said the Rev.
Samuel Chambers Sr., pastor of Wayman Chapel African Methodist Episcopal
Church in New Brighton, Pa. “God needs no proof. Either you believe in him
or you don’t.” The Rev. James Farnan, pastor of St. Thomas More Catholic
Church in Bethel Park, Pa., agreed.
“You can’t deny the historical nature of sacred Scripture,” he said.
Noting that the gospels quote Hebrew Scripture passages they say were
fulfilled in Jesus, Farnan added: “His is the only birth that has been
predicted not only when and where but to what family and to what person.”
Other preachers say they don’t insist on belief in the details of the
account but urge listeners to focus on what they see as the main message of
passages — God becoming human to save humanity.
“The Christian faith is about way more than belief in the historical
accuracy of every detail of the biblical story,” said the Rev. Roger Owens,
professor of leadership and ministry at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary.
“You will be doing your congregation a great service if you move from the
peripheral details to the center,” he said. “Belief in the virgin birth
might be a late development, and it might not be attested to in every gospel
, but if that’s what your faith stands on, it’s a flimsy faith. In Jesus,
God took on flesh, and became truly human.”
Only four of the 89 chapters in the gospels talk about Jesus’ conception
and birth, and yet the stories are among the best-known in all the Bible,
celebrated in hymns from ancient times to the present, depicted in countless
works of art and re-enacted in multitudes of pageants featuring kids in
bathrobes portraying shepherds.
Christians have included Jesus’ virgin birth as part of their creeds since
ancient times; in the 1920s, Protestant fundamentalists insisted that belief
in the virgin birth be considered an essential of Christian faith; Roman
Catholic dogma teaches that Mary remained a virgin her whole life and was
herself conceived without sin.
Yet the growing skepticism comes amid two related trends.
One is the growing ranks of people claiming no religious affiliation — now
approaching 20 percent. They are the most likely to doubt the Nativity
accounts. At the same time, evangelical Protestants, who overwhelmingly
affirm the historical accuracy of the accounts, are shrinking, said Robert
Jones, chief executive officer of Public Religion Research Institute.
The other trend is the continued debate among Jesus scholars over how much
of the gospels are historically accurate in every detail — and whether it’
s necessary to believe that in order to believe Christian essentials. A
recent best-seller, for example, Reza Aslan’s “Zealot,” disputes the
notion that Jesus of Nazareth was born in Bethlehem.
No one writing about a messiah, said biblical scholar Ben Witherington III
of Asbury Theological Seminary in Kentucky, would make up a story that would
lead people to question the legitimacy of his birth — unless it were true.
“This is an honor-and-shame culture,” Witherington said. “We’re talking
about a pregnancy out of wedlock in that culture, which could result in
stoning. The idea that two gospel writers would independently make up a
story about virginal conception is beyond credulity.”
The Rev. Dean Weaver, pastor of Memorial Park Church, a Presbyterian church
in Hampton, Pa., said that while he affirms the historical truth of the
narratives, he doesn’t use Christmas sermons to win over skeptics.
“Typically at Christmastime, it’s not about arguments or proof-texting or
skepticism, it’s really about the beauty and the mystery of the Christmas
narrative, and people entering into the fact that God came into the world
because he loves us,” he said.
Plus, he said, “at Christmastime, you hope there’s some willingness to
entertain the idea that the supernatural is actually real. Most people at
this time of year, even if they’re skeptical, they’re open to at least
wanting to believe that.” | J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 2 “God needs no proof. Either you believe in him or you don’t.”
else
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
: http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2022523931_christmasst
: Poll: Fewer Americans believe story of Nativity
: Just under half of Americans believe the biblical accounts surrounding
: Christmas — such as the virgin birth, angels and wise men — are
: historically accurate.
: By Peter Smith
: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
: Angels splitting the sky to bring good news to shepherds; wise men following
: a miraculous star; a virgin giving birth to a messiah in a quiet stable.
: These are the themes that churches around the world are celebrating
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 3
and god has no proof.
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: “God needs no proof. Either you believe in him or you don’t.”
:
: else
| J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 4 Though we cannot prove God exist, but there is evidence, otherwise it won't
be called faith.
You also hold the faith that there is no God and, in the same way, you have
only evidence and no proof.
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: and god has no proof.
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 5
t
show me the evidence, please.
have
no, I don't hold the faith there is no god. You show me good evidence, I'll
believe.
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: Though we cannot prove God exist, but there is evidence, otherwise it won't
: be called faith.
: You also hold the faith that there is no God and, in the same way, you have
: only evidence and no proof.
| J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 6 I cannot show you things and make you believe but I believe that God can. If
you asked Him instead of me, God may make you believe.
Bible is the most important evidence, many people have testimonies too.
ll
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: t
: show me the evidence, please.
: have
: no, I don't hold the faith there is no god. You show me good evidence, I'll
: believe.
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 7
If
do you ever ask any myth figure you don't believe its existence?
why? what's on bible that make it true?
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: I cannot show you things and make you believe but I believe that God can. If
: you asked Him instead of me, God may make you believe.
: Bible is the most important evidence, many people have testimonies too.
:
: ll
| J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 8 from Wiki.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence
Evidence, broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an
assertion. This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of
evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion.
At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion
but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in circumstantial
evidence.
Evidence doesn't naturally prove or disprove things. Evidence in
Christianity is the kind that doesn't provide direct prove to all people
that God exist but is enough for many to believe in God.
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: If
: do you ever ask any myth figure you don't believe its existence?
: why? what's on bible that make it true?
| n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 9
Why do you believe HE does not exist?
Good, you admit that belief exists. Can or must a belief be fully proven?
When you decide to make a step forward, how can you FULLY prove it is a good
step before you make it? People live by faith.
Why not?
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: If
: do you ever ask any myth figure you don't believe its existence?
: why? what's on bible that make it true?
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 10
assertion
circumstantial
so what's your evidence?
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: from Wiki.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence
: Evidence, broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an
: assertion. This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of
: evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion.
: At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion
: but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in circumstantial
: evidence.
: Evidence doesn't naturally prove or disprove things. Evidence in
: Christianity is the kind that doesn't provide direct prove to all people
: that God exist but is enough for many to believe in God.
| | | E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 11
same reason you don't believe Muhammad rode a flying horse to heaven,
or Joe Smith found the book or Mormon that documented Jesus visited America.
I'm consistent, you're not. You believe in one fairytale story but not
others.
I don't believe any of them.
I do admit belief exists.
I'm not sure what you're asking. Belief by definition is not something
proven.
Otherwise, you "know", you don't need to have "faith".
good
No, it's hard to prove anything. That doesn't mean you should give up.
If someone present you a good investment opportunity, do you just throw your
money in, or you need more evidence and proof before you do? Do you treat
your faith as serious as your money?
why?
【在 n********n 的大作中提到】
:
: Why do you believe HE does not exist?
: Good, you admit that belief exists. Can or must a belief be fully proven?
: When you decide to make a step forward, how can you FULLY prove it is a good
: step before you make it? People live by faith.
: Why not?
| n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 12
America.
----
Whether you believe or not, fairy tale is part of human life and people
believe it. It has nothing to do with logic, reason and science. It is
simply part of human life and will continue to exist. Likewise, religious
belief is the reality and has no conflict with science. Religious belief
does not prevent you from pursuing science at all. But better use science in
your science.
Why do you always use reasoning to judge everything? It is not enough for a
life.
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: same reason you don't believe Muhammad rode a flying horse to heaven,
: or Joe Smith found the book or Mormon that documented Jesus visited America.
: I'm consistent, you're not. You believe in one fairytale story but not
: others.
: I don't believe any of them.
: I do admit belief exists.
: I'm not sure what you're asking. Belief by definition is not something
: proven.
: Otherwise, you "know", you don't need to have "faith".
| J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 13 Bible is the most important evidence, many people have testimonies too.
I also have my testimony. But if you don't believe in Bible you won't
believe in mine too.
Why not other religions? Because my experiences did not lead me there and
the God in Christianity leads me to Him. God(s) in other religions did not,
so they are not god to me. If the God in Christianity happens to be the God
in other religions, that's fine for me too, I don't mind more people are
blessed or saved. If God in other religions are true but in Christianity is
not, then that God must be graceful enough to allow people to worship other
Gods and still bless them. Then it will be no problem to be a Christian
either. Therefore I am not against other religions.
【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
:
: same reason you don't believe Muhammad rode a flying horse to heaven,
: or Joe Smith found the book or Mormon that documented Jesus visited America.
: I'm consistent, you're not. You believe in one fairytale story but not
: others.
: I don't believe any of them.
: I do admit belief exists.
: I'm not sure what you're asking. Belief by definition is not something
: proven.
: Otherwise, you "know", you don't need to have "faith".
| l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 14 循环论证+心理暗示呗
,
God
is
other
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: Bible is the most important evidence, many people have testimonies too.
: I also have my testimony. But if you don't believe in Bible you won't
: believe in mine too.
: Why not other religions? Because my experiences did not lead me there and
: the God in Christianity leads me to Him. God(s) in other religions did not,
: so they are not god to me. If the God in Christianity happens to be the God
: in other religions, that's fine for me too, I don't mind more people are
: blessed or saved. If God in other religions are true but in Christianity is
: not, then that God must be graceful enough to allow people to worship other
: Gods and still bless them. Then it will be no problem to be a Christian
| E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 15 存在神仙故事不代表神仙故事就是真的， 我看不懂
你在這裡要講的是什麼。
in
a
【在 n********n 的大作中提到】
:
: America.
: ----
: Whether you believe or not, fairy tale is part of human life and people
: believe it. It has nothing to do with logic, reason and science. It is
: simply part of human life and will continue to exist. Likewise, religious
: belief is the reality and has no conflict with science. Religious belief
: does not prevent you from pursuing science at all. But better use science in
: your science.
: Why do you always use reasoning to judge everything? It is not enough for a
| l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 16 根据你的宗教人类在地球出现的历史是多少年啊？
根据科学研究呢？
in
a
【在 n********n 的大作中提到】
:
: America.
: ----
: Whether you believe or not, fairy tale is part of human life and people
: believe it. It has nothing to do with logic, reason and science. It is
: simply part of human life and will continue to exist. Likewise, religious
: belief is the reality and has no conflict with science. Religious belief
: does not prevent you from pursuing science at all. But better use science in
: your science.
: Why do you always use reasoning to judge everything? It is not enough for a
|
|
