y****i
发帖数: 778 | 1 If you really like muni and want to buy in your Roth, you should consider
taxable muni or build America bond (BAB) bond issued during 2009-2010
because they pay higher interest than tax free muni bond. |
|
y****i
发帖数: 778 | 2 Thanks for sharing. I don't have any muni bond fund so good to know that.
For individual muni bond, fidelity does calculate your cost basis like that,
including all transaction fees for both buying and selling. You can claim
capital loss for the price difference and have tax exempt interest at the
same time. Turbotax will load these information automatically, and if you
pay attention to the detail, you can see the way fidelity calculate for
individual bond capital gain/loss is always fair or und... 阅读全帖 |
|
y****i
发帖数: 778 | 3 Thanks for sharing. I don't have any muni bond fund so good to know that.
For individual muni bond, fidelity does calculate your cost basis like that,
including all transaction fees for both buying and selling. You can claim
capital loss for the price difference and have tax exempt interest at the
same time. Turbotax will load these information automatically, and if you
pay attention to the detail, you can see the way fidelity calculate for
individual bond capital gain/loss is always fair or und... 阅读全帖 |
|
a***u
发帖数: 335 | 4 For tax purpose, which investment is better? Buying bond or bond funds. |
|
p*****r
发帖数: 595 | 5 Thanks a lot. very good summary. More questions:
1. tax-exempt Muni Bond means no federal tax. You just mentioned General
Obligation bond of CA. Is this state-tax-exempt? even for residents outside
of CA?
2. There is no tax-exempt corporate bond, right?
,
value
face |
|
y****i
发帖数: 778 | 6 1. No, it is not state tax exempt if you outside of CA. If you live in NY,
IL, MA, NJ, CT or OR, you can buy your own state GO. I don't know how
liquidity of small sate GO. Because of no income tax for TX, WA and FL, the
demanding of these bonds is not as high as CA or NY whose state tax is much
higher. Only PR bond is state tax free even for residents outside of PR.
2. Yes, there is no tax-exempt corporate bond. That is the trade off for
liquidity.
outside |
|
y****i
发帖数: 778 | 7 Both are treasury bonds which have 30 year bull market since early 1980s
because fed rate dropped from 16-18% to 0-0.25%. Short term may be OK
because of Ben Bernanke. But when Big Ben retire or real inflation kick off,
treasury bond may have a bear market, especially for the long term bond
unless you think US will be like Japan for another lost decade. |
|
y****i
发帖数: 778 | 8 Interest which individual municipal bond pay semiannually is federal tax
free, also state tax free if you buy the bond of your state. Capital gain is
still taxable if you sell the bond before maturity. |
|
y****i
发帖数: 778 | 9 Interest就是利息，不包括你通过市场买卖差价赚到的。municipal bond 都是半年发
一次利息，公司债券大部分也是，少数是按月发利息。capital gain就是你买卖价格扣
除手续费后还有赚的部分，和股票一样。到期债券就还本了，不存在二级市场去交易到
期的债券，所以也没有交税一说。most bonds have face value 100$, if you buy in
secondary market lower than 100$, then the difference between your purchase
price plus transaction fee and face value will be the capital gain upon
maturity. In any case you sell the bond before maturity below your purchase
price, you can also claim capital loss. |
|
y****i
发帖数: 778 | 10 Yield是真正的利率（孽息率），coupon是票面利率。if yield is > coupon, your
purchase price is lower than par value, 100$. If yield is < coupon, your
purchase price is higher than $100. Bond holders earn interest everyday. If
you buy a bond, you need to pay interest. If you sell the bond, buyer will
give you the interest. Interest is count day by day. |
|
y****i
发帖数: 778 | 11 If the stock price going down, the div yield can not cover capital loss. If
this bond market price going south, bond holder can hold it till maturity to
have garanteed 6% return unless it defaults. If this bond price going up,
you can sell it before maturity to have both capital gain and interest. |
|
e*******7
发帖数: 2169 | 12 【 以下文字转载自 Bond 俱乐部 】
发信人: ericfly77 (Eric), 信区: Bond
标 题: Bond 初级问题请教
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jan 2 11:17:51 2013, 美东)
请教一下，什么是Expected price, expected yield.
到底如何计算回报？
以附件中的2为例，是不是意味着，2018年到期，4%票面利息，100的债券要花115买，
那个expected yield 是什么意思？
多谢。 |
|
y****i
发帖数: 778 | 13 This is call date and call price, the issuer has the right but not liability
to redeem the bond at that price. If you want to sell the bond before 2033
maturity, you need to call the broker such as Fidelity to get a bid quote
first. If the issuer does call back this bond, they will buy back with the
call price at the call date. You do not need to do anything in this
situation. |
|
|
N****g
发帖数: 2829 | 15
funds?
一定程度上Diversified，但偏重bond fund(~60-70%)
现在的问题就是目前是否需要re-balance，降低bond，增加股票？或者降低bond，增加
别的什么？ |
|
N****g
发帖数: 2829 | 16 Vanguard Wellington VWELX seems to be a fund with 70% stock + 30% bond。
Definitely higher risk than pure Bond Fund, of course, higher risk, higher
potential return. But with the stock market at all time high, do you think
it is a good time to switch all my bond funds to a few funds like Vanguard
Wellington? As yangqi said, stock market is at the end of bull and may soon
go into bear, then there may be huge loss instead of profit if I switch now.
Anything I can buy now with much lower risk, but c... 阅读全帖 |
|
N****g
发帖数: 2829 | 17 Rate go up, bond yield go up, 会抵消 Bond fund price go down，长期来看，Bond
至少不会亏，只是profit没有股票那么高罢了，但风险也比股票小得多，对于不能承受
风险的人还是适合的。所以不能一概而论。
price |
|
s******d
发帖数: 9806 | 18 股票的比较简单，直接SPY/IVV就可以了。Bond有啥类似的大家公认的指数mf/etf吗？
还有种说法认为bond index没啥意义，买bond index mf/etf不合适，这个说法对吗？ |
|
S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 19 Bond index is largely driven by issuance. Why do you want to own papers
issued by the most indebted parties? There are some fundamental weighted (
government) bond index using debt to GDP ratio etc, but I am not aware of
such bond ETFs. |
|
k**********g
发帖数: 378 | 20 what i have a bond fund. i heard the performance of bond and bond fund can
be quite different, but haven't understand it yet. |
|
D*****t
发帖数: 558 | 21 i have to admit i have zero confidence in my interest rate prediction. i
would argue that even if there were a mild yield curve flattening with the
short end going up more than the long end, one who holds short term bonds
would still lose less money than the long bond holders. and i really can't
see a severe and quick yield curve flattening or inverted yield curve. that
would be a harbinger of another upcoming recession.
generally i would say that bond market in the next decade won't be as
gener... 阅读全帖 |
|
s***n
发帖数: 678 | 22 假如Taper off 开始了, 并且所有长期短期interest rate 都上升的话，所有bond
fund的价格都要下跌。但是现实情况是bond fund的当下价格已经把对taper off时间的
预期算进来了。比如三个月内很可能不会taper off，但是明年非常可能会；这也就是
前面帖子说的三个月的bond大概不会跌价，而3-5年都在跌。
funds |
|
|
|
a****t
发帖数: 7049 | 25 Are bonds overpriced? Probably. So are stocks. The same interest rate risk
is in every capital asset. Nobody knows what will happen with interest rates
or when. It may rise next year (already priced in) or it may rise in 5
years or it may never rise very much. It may even go lower. Or it may rise
suddenly if inflation expectation becomes unanchored. Only this last case is
an argument against bonds. But nobody knows it will happen. Why bet on it?
AA is okay. If you believe there is a bond bear ma... 阅读全帖 |
|
r****m
发帖数: 1204 | 26 纯探讨贴 -
Normally I am an advocate for holding a diversified portfolio which includes
some bond funds.
However, I think given the current rate environment, it's unwise to include
any bond fund in one's portfolio (unless you are at or near retirement stage
), especially for most members of this board which I assume are mostly young
to middle agers.
Bill Gross has been a big 反指 lately (in IMHO), don't follow him. |
|
r****m
发帖数: 1204 | 27 I question the conventional wisdom of stock/bond (x/100-x) portfolio, as I
think it's too conservative for young/middle aged investors.
Generally, in a low interest rate environment, a smart investor should take
leverage (stocks) rather than de-leverage (bonds).
A day like today is a good opportunity for long term stock holders with DCA
approach.
I think Bill Gross made smart moves to stocks ... |
|
y******r
发帖数: 2986 | 28 那请问I bond和EE bond有什么区别呢？如果我不想进入股市，资金又有限，该怎么投
资呢？谢谢！ |
|
y******r
发帖数: 2986 | 29 那请问I bond和EE bond有什么区别呢？如果我不想进入股市，资金又有限，该怎么投
资呢？谢谢！ |
|
M********r
发帖数: 278 | 30 You are absolutely right that bond and stock prices don't always go opposite
directions. But very often they do. And when they go hand in hand in the
same direction, bonds tend to be less volatile than stocks. To small
investors, there is nothing more effective and accessible than bonds to
reduce equity risks in their long term investment portfolios. |
|
b****6
发帖数: 155 | 31 当前的bond的价格已经包括了一个利率涨的预期。
比如，现在大部分人认为利率会在2年之后开始涨。
那么，如果利率在预期之前涨，bond会跌；
但是如果有消息说利率会推迟到预期时间之后再涨，那么bond会涨。
所以都不好说的。。。。 |
|
s*******g
发帖数: 243 | 32 或者说相对于风险收益太差了。本来bond比stock收益低，但是风险也低。但是算税后
收益的话，差的也太多了。本来想买点bond fund/etf平衡下portfolio，算了税之后发
现太不合算了。bond又不是不会跌，2-3%的税后收益还要冒着fed加息的风险。 |
|
h**b
发帖数: 343 | 33 最近对bond产生兴趣，有不少问题
比如如何或者通过什么渠道买bond？目前有fdelity账户。买卖的时候要注意什么？
选择什么bond比较好？选择时要考虑哪些因素？
另外，不知道哪有这方面的科普资料
多谢！ |
|
w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 34 That's right. Another way to look at the loss of holding the bond to
maturity is to see the *reduced income* compared to what could have been
earned if one bought the bond after the interest hikes using the same amount
of principal.
When the bond price drops, you either take the capital loss and move on or
hold to maturity knowing that you're taking the income loss (subtle, but
real). One way or the other, the damage is done.
the |
|
s***n
发帖数: 678 | 35 按理说加息对应的债市反应就是bond跌。但是这个影响已经price in了。
作为一个投资组合，bond在任何时候都有其存在的必要。如果是要短线投资bond，那么
你赌的是联储会推迟它宣称的加息时间。 |
|
|
s***z
发帖数: 631 | 37 也觉得有人在谈bond， 有人在说bond fund。有谁能给解释具体点吗？大多数还是买的
bond fund吧。 |
|
E*******r
发帖数: 2710 | 38 要DIY bond的话Fidelity选择多。如果搞bond fund的话Fidelity和Vanguard都不错。
但Bond不适合放在tax disadvangtage账号下。 |
|
w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 39 When you deviate from treasury/gov. bonds, especially in this case when
investing in junk bonds, you are taking considerable credit risk. The
existence of credit risk premium is debatable. That is, it's not clear that
you are really getting compensated for the risk you are taking. What is
worse is that the risk shows up at the wrong times, when your stocks are
also crashing.
It's not worth it, and I think you are confusing yield with return. I
suggest to do your own due diligence and stay with h... 阅读全帖 |
|
w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 40 When you deviate from treasury/gov. bonds, especially in this case when
investing in junk bonds, you are taking considerable credit risk. The
existence of credit risk premium is debatable. That is, it's not clear that
you are really getting compensated for the risk you are taking. What is
worse is that the risk shows up at the wrong times, when your stocks are
also crashing.
It's not worth it, and I think you are confusing yield with return. I
suggest to do your own due diligence and stay with h... 阅读全帖 |
|
发帖数: 1 | 41
Diversify 不是还有其他asset class 吗. 股票，大宗商品，房地产，对冲基金.....
... 這裡只是在討論bond 在利率長期上漲的預期⬇️該怎麼買，怎麼管
理. 就bond 本身的diversify , 確實不如基金。但如果有個10個以上的bond, 已經
基本可以滿足diversify 的要求，track 和monitor 起來也容易. |
|
l**v
发帖数: 188 | 42 我们公司的plan只允许 in plan conversion after-tax contribution到Roth 401k。
“Through the Roth In-Plan Conversion feature, you now have the potential to
avoid federal tax on future 401(k) investment earnings by converting your
401(k) pre-tax savings and/or your after-tax earnings to the Roth 401(k)
source options.”
这个是不是就没什么意思啦？我的理解是这个还不如自己开个Roth IRA，用
traditional IRA走后门转到Roth IRA里。这样的话投资选择要比我们公司提供的这种
option 多。是不是这样的？did I miss anything？
为什么你不考虑muni bond呢？20年的话比如“WISCONSIN CTR DIST WIS TAX REV SR”
，CUSIP... 阅读全帖 |
|
m*********t
发帖数: 1250 | 43 1. After-tax 401K
你可以看看下面这个文中的比较：
news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=682209
如果没有out-of-plan conversion的选项，但401K里面的fund还可以，那么我还是会选
择Max After-Tax，然后in-plan converstion到Roth 401K。因为，等你以后换工作了，
或者退休了，你还是可以把old 401K convert到IRA的。
Back door roth IRA当然如果有足够资金，应该默认优先Max。
2. 关于EE Savings vs. Muni
其实我对于bond的研究不多，因为investment gain主要是来源于Stock，EE的配置我主
要看重的是a）Very Low Risk的长期回报（3.5% is acceptable for me）；b）No cos
t，容易manage，每年可以固定购买$10K per SSN。主要的bond holding还是duration
5-7年左右的Intermediate Term的B... 阅读全帖 |
|
|
s*******h
发帖数: 1361 | 45 That is a tiny fund with 6m asset. Do not draw much conclusion from it.
An ETF is fully collateralized and doesn't have any counter party credit
risks as long as the vendor operates legally. You may have mixed it with an
ETN which assumes issuers' counterparty credit risks. Both a bond ETF and a
bond ETN have underlying credit risks, but that's different than the issuer'
s credit risks.
coupon
correspond
Bond
performance |
|
l**v
发帖数: 188 | 46 Actually I was referring to the "total return" of this ETF from ishares
website. As you said these are two different animals. So I think by
comparing total return of the ETF and the yield to worst of the zero coupon
muni bond, I'm essentially comparing the money I gain by purchasing these
two products assuming I hold the muni bond to maturity or to be called. And
on top of it muni bond's yield is immune from the fed tax. |
|
S**P
发帖数: 1290 | 47 哦，我看错了。是平均0.27的expense。很多dmf etf的平均。
说十个是因为感觉股票差不多十个我比较comfortable。 价格也比较合适。是不是足够
diversify其实我觉得关系并不是很大，主要是看风险。
是要找本书看看，对bond了解太少了。反正要买也要等tax reform结果出来， 正好先
学习一下。
[在 wltsn (waterfall) 的大作中提到：]
:I'm not sure how you calculated 0.4% expense. It's 0.24%, which is
very
:close to the median tracking error of 0.26%, meaning they did a good job
:tracking the index before expense.
:I know there was a comment earlier in this thread that 10 bonds may be
:considered diversified. It's not even close, if y... 阅读全帖 |
|
发帖数: 1 | 48
Diversify 不是还有其他asset class 吗. 股票，大宗商品，房地产，对冲基金.....
... 這裡只是在討論bond 在利率長期上漲的預期⬇️該怎麼買，怎麼管
理. 就bond 本身的diversify , 確實不如基金。但如果有個10個以上的bond, 已經
基本可以滿足diversify 的要求，track 和monitor 起來也容易. |
|
l**v
发帖数: 188 | 49 我们公司的plan只允许 in plan conversion after-tax contribution到Roth 401k。
“Through the Roth In-Plan Conversion feature, you now have the potential to
avoid federal tax on future 401(k) investment earnings by converting your
401(k) pre-tax savings and/or your after-tax earnings to the Roth 401(k)
source options.”
这个是不是就没什么意思啦？我的理解是这个还不如自己开个Roth IRA，用
traditional IRA走后门转到Roth IRA里。这样的话投资选择要比我们公司提供的这种
option 多。是不是这样的？did I miss anything？
为什么你不考虑muni bond呢？20年的话比如“WISCONSIN CTR DIST WIS TAX REV SR”
，CUSIP... 阅读全帖 |
|
m*********t
发帖数: 1250 | 50 1. After-tax 401K
你可以看看下面这个文中的比较：
news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=682209
如果没有out-of-plan conversion的选项，但401K里面的fund还可以，那么我还是会选
择Max After-Tax，然后in-plan converstion到Roth 401K。因为，等你以后换工作了，
或者退休了，你还是可以把old 401K convert到IRA的。
Back door roth IRA当然如果有足够资金，应该默认优先Max。
2. 关于EE Savings vs. Muni
其实我对于bond的研究不多，因为investment gain主要是来源于Stock，EE的配置我主
要看重的是a）Very Low Risk的长期回报（3.5% is acceptable for me）；b）No cos
t，容易manage，每年可以固定购买$10K per SSN。主要的bond holding还是duration
5-7年左右的Intermediate Term的B... 阅读全帖 |
|
