C*****9
发帖数: 147 | 1 系列片，前面是娱乐性,后面是探讨性。
Pair game，双无，坐南，拿:
K
JT9xx
x
JTxxxx
N E S W
1s 2D x* P
3d P 3h P
5c* P ?
1 你同意不同意这个x?
2 这个5c是几张C?
3 现在叫什么? |
o*******n
发帖数: 6500 | 2 北家要是开叫1H的话，这个加倍显然无法理解嘛
要是开叫1S的话，加倍可以理解，但是否同意，我要再想想
哈哈
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: 系列片，前面是娱乐性,后面是探讨性。
: Pair game，双无，坐南，拿:
: K
: JT9xx
: x
: JTxxxx
: N E S W
: 1s 2D x* P
: 3d P 3h P
: 5c* P ?
|
b***y
发帖数: 2804 | |
m****r
发帖数: 6639 | 4 主流的来了:
1. 不同意
2. 5张
3. p
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: 系列片，前面是娱乐性,后面是探讨性。
: Pair game，双无，坐南，拿:
: K
: JT9xx
: x
: JTxxxx
: N E S W
: 1s 2D x* P
: 3d P 3h P
: 5c* P ?
|
p*********6
发帖数: 679 | 5 1) 不同意. 我点不多，X可能逼p上三了，p如有h，他还有机会叫；
2）5张，N 5=3=0=5？
3）6C？ 已经冒了，就上吧。 |
b***y
发帖数: 2804 | 6 ５＝３＝０＝５不太可能了，否则怎么都会支持一口红心吧？
在这个序列下，已经叫了３Ｄ了，再叫４Ｃ也应该是逼叫。总之我是不敢PASS掉５Ｃ的。
【在 p*********6 的大作中提到】
: 1) 不同意. 我点不多，X可能逼p上三了，p如有h，他还有机会叫；
: 2）5张，N 5=3=0=5？
: 3）6C？ 已经冒了，就上吧。
|
p*********6
发帖数: 679 | 7 N为什么3张会支持一口红心？S 可能h 4张（2=4=3=4 高点所以X），叫h是3D 逼的（
3nt试探）。不过５＝３＝０＝５是不像，opp 那么多D，不会不阻击吧。但看上去N是
强牌。
的。
【在 b***y 的大作中提到】
: ５＝３＝０＝５不太可能了，否则怎么都会支持一口红心吧？
: 在这个序列下，已经叫了３Ｄ了，再叫４Ｃ也应该是逼叫。总之我是不敢PASS掉５Ｃ的。
|
b***y
发帖数: 2804 | 8 ３Ｈ应该保证多于４张。如果方块无止，２＝４＝３＝４叫３Ｓ，１＝４＝３＝５叫４
Ｃ，１＝４＝４＝４确有些困难，可能也是４Ｃ为好。
【在 p*********6 的大作中提到】
: N为什么3张会支持一口红心？S 可能h 4张（2=4=3=4 高点所以X），叫h是3D 逼的（
: 3nt试探）。不过５＝３＝０＝５是不像，opp 那么多D，不会不阻击吧。但看上去N是
: 强牌。
:
: 的。
|
p***r
发帖数: 20570 | 9 Double is very wrong. The correct bid is pass.
Here, there are two groups. One is to bid 3H over the double as gameforcing.
For that group, 5C is an impossible bid, because you can bid 4C with strong
5-5 in S/C. 3H with gf H hands.
For the other group, 3H is nonforcing. So with very strong hands, opener has
to either bid 4H or cuebid first.
Therefore, 5C is ERKC here, because there is no hand that should first cue
3D then jump to 5C with real C. With a very strong 5-5 two suiter, 4C is
still a very natural and forcing bid after the double. Now you just need to
show your KC. Partner may hold something like AQJxxx AQxx Axx -
Of course, if you don't play ERKC, 5C should be a splinter bid.
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: 系列片，前面是娱乐性,后面是探讨性。
: Pair game，双无，坐南，拿:
: K
: JT9xx
: x
: JTxxxx
: N E S W
: 1s 2D x* P
: 3d P 3h P
: 5c* P ?
|
C*****9
发帖数: 147 | 10 主流意见(Pass 5C)可以给直接在计分表上写+400。如果你认为5C是Exclusive RKC1430
(0 C)，叫了5H，考验来了:
同伴持: JTxxx AQx A KQxx
对着你: K JT9xxx x JTxxxx
首攻Dx。
重点是如何打，不仅是打哪张牌。打完后再回头讨论叫牌。 |
|
|
p***r
发帖数: 20570 | 11 This bidding is just nonsense. If you really play 5C as natural and bid 5C
like this, you may miss a nice 5-3 or 6-3 4H fit and play in a horrible 4-3
or even 4-2 fit 5C fit.
Of course, you don't really have many options here. You can either play
stiff HK, or you can play SJ and try to win your stiff SK. If your SK didn't
win, you also have some chance that CA is stiff or SA holder doesn't hold C
. Of course the latter line would offer you better chances.
RKC1430
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: 主流意见(Pass 5C)可以给直接在计分表上写+400。如果你认为5C是Exclusive RKC1430
: (0 C)，叫了5H，考验来了:
: 同伴持: JTxxx AQx A KQxx
: 对着你: K JT9xxx x JTxxxx
: 首攻Dx。
: 重点是如何打，不仅是打哪张牌。打完后再回头讨论叫牌。
|
m****r
发帖数: 6639 | 12 我想了一下, 第一顿用明手的DA赢下来先.
RKC1430
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: 主流意见(Pass 5C)可以给直接在计分表上写+400。如果你认为5C是Exclusive RKC1430
: (0 C)，叫了5H，考验来了:
: 同伴持: JTxxx AQx A KQxx
: 对着你: K JT9xxx x JTxxxx
: 首攻Dx。
: 重点是如何打，不仅是打哪张牌。打完后再回头讨论叫牌。
|
v**********e
发帖数: 1295 | 13 X可以接受，但正常情况下我不会叫。之后的5C大概只能理解为ERKC.
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: 系列片，前面是娱乐性,后面是探讨性。
: Pair game，双无，坐南，拿:
: K
: JT9xx
: x
: JTxxxx
: N E S W
: 1s 2D x* P
: 3d P 3h P
: 5c* P ?
|
b***y
发帖数: 2804 | 14 ＳＪ啊。。。还有别的选择么？
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: 主流意见(Pass 5C)可以给直接在计分表上写+400。如果你认为5C是Exclusive RKC1430
: (0 C)，叫了5H，考验来了:
: 同伴持: JTxxx AQx A KQxx
: 对着你: K JT9xxx x JTxxxx
: 首攻Dx。
: 重点是如何打，不仅是打哪张牌。打完后再回头讨论叫牌。
|
C*****9
发帖数: 147 | 15 你基本不会满意直接击落单张HK的概率，希望能偷到SK。DA赢下来后，需要想一会，
给RHO足够的思考时间，第2墩出得太快容易引起警惕，而且如果RHO不得不想一想，
之后结果是只好出A。你也应该想一想是SJ还是Sx，RHO能够估算你S是K或Kx:
出SJ 如果只是解决S猜断，也可以打不扑就是未持有Q，所以可以干脆单防单K
出Sx，一旦LHO持Qx，RHO持Axxx, 上A就整个帮助你建立S套了
【在 b***y 的大作中提到】
: ＳＪ啊。。。还有别的选择么？
|
b***y
发帖数: 2804 | 16 “也可以打不扑就是未持有Q”，这句话没看懂。持Ｑ当然不扑Ｊ，除非Ｑｘ．
可能跟对手水平也有关吧。像这种低级比赛，打Ｊ偷到Ｋ的概率比较大。你已经知道对
方水平最多一般了，１１张方块却由得你们自由叫牌。当然你们也扶不起，给了你们一
路绿灯，还是叫砸了。
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: 你基本不会满意直接击落单张HK的概率，希望能偷到SK。DA赢下来后，需要想一会，
: 给RHO足够的思考时间，第2墩出得太快容易引起警惕，而且如果RHO不得不想一想，
: 之后结果是只好出A。你也应该想一想是SJ还是Sx，RHO能够估算你S是K或Kx:
: 出SJ 如果只是解决S猜断，也可以打不扑就是未持有Q，所以可以干脆单防单K
: 出Sx，一旦LHO持Qx，RHO持Axxx, 上A就整个帮助你建立S套了
|
b***y
发帖数: 2804 | 17 How to invite hearts with this group? This is MP.
【在 p***r 的大作中提到】
: This bidding is just nonsense. If you really play 5C as natural and bid 5C
: like this, you may miss a nice 5-3 or 6-3 4H fit and play in a horrible 4-3
: or even 4-2 fit 5C fit.
: Of course, you don't really have many options here. You can either play
: stiff HK, or you can play SJ and try to win your stiff SK. If your SK didn't
: win, you also have some chance that CA is stiff or SA holder doesn't hold C
: . Of course the latter line would offer you better chances.
:
: RKC1430
|
m****r
发帖数: 6639 | 18 最后结果到底怎么了? 我的400算不算50%以上?
【在 b***y 的大作中提到】
: “也可以打不扑就是未持有Q”，这句话没看懂。持Ｑ当然不扑Ｊ，除非Ｑｘ．
: 可能跟对手水平也有关吧。像这种低级比赛，打Ｊ偷到Ｋ的概率比较大。你已经知道对
: 方水平最多一般了，１１张方块却由得你们自由叫牌。当然你们也扶不起，给了你们一
: 路绿灯，还是叫砸了。
|
w****b
发帖数: 623 | 19 Here's my view.
I will double too with this hand. I usually don't double with questionable
value, as it may end bid pd, or penalize oppo incorrectly, so usually if I
have a constructive or less hand, I'd like to double with S tolerance. Here
with extreme shape, if pd bids 2S, which may not promise extra S, I have a
comfortable retreat to 3C. Also if pd has nothing to bid and passed the
double with 4, maybe that is not the end of the world either.
I'm not someone to fine tune game invitations -- you either upgrade or
downgrade, and usually for competitive bidding, there's already enough signs
. By creating an invitation, if you cannot decide earlier, you cannot decide
later either. So in this sequence, all 3 level bids are natural and gf (
except 3C of course).
After 3D, I'd bid 4C. So far we have promised only H with our double. Pd may
have a strong hand with 3H but lack direction. We have no interest
whatsoever in playing NT. So let's show our longest suit. If pd has no
tolerance, he can always retreat to H.
If we chose the unfortunate bid of 3H, then 5C has to be ERKC. I never
discuss with any serious pd whether one plays ERKC or not, but anything else
cannot make sense. If pd has real C, he could bid 4C which is 100% forcing
-- note he has several ways to show C: 1S-2D-x-p-3C; 1S-2D-x-p-4C; 1S-2D-x-p
-3D-p-3H-p-4C; and the last one has to be strongest (in value, maybe not
shape).
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: 系列片，前面是娱乐性,后面是探讨性。
: Pair game，双无，坐南，拿:
: K
: JT9xx
: x
: JTxxxx
: N E S W
: 1s 2D x* P
: 3d P 3h P
: 5c* P ?
|
p***r
发帖数: 20570 | 20 Just bid 2H with 12-15. With 16, you can gf. 16-8 usually you should often
have some reasonable plays in 4H.
【在 b***y 的大作中提到】
: How to invite hearts with this group? This is MP.
|
|
|
p***r
发帖数: 20570 | 21 If partner never passes the double, double certainly looks good. If partner
passes double with 4 or sometimes even 3, you are in serious trouble.
For example, partner may hold a very normal looking AQJxx x ATxx Qxx, it's
almost impossible to beat 2D double and very often, they make an overtrick
without any games on. This is a major disaster you should try to avoid IMO.
In some sense, the takeout double can never be based on too much shape and
too little defensive values. That's also why one should overcall at 2 level
more frequently, way more than the main stream experts do.
It's actually unlike the situation of opening bids. If you open 1 M with 6-5
shape and 8 HCPs, your partner usually wouldn't penalize your opps too much
. Here, you run into a serious trouble that partner may have a good chance
to pass your double. Of course, if he doesn't pass, it's a clearcut to
double to show your hand. IMO, even 2H is probably better than double. 2H
may lead you to unmakable 3NT, which is a minor problem when white. You can
then pass 2S. Bid 3C over 2NT to show weak two suiter (here 3D should show C
and strong two suiter or gf H one suiter).
Here
signs
decide
【在 w****b 的大作中提到】
: Here's my view.
: I will double too with this hand. I usually don't double with questionable
: value, as it may end bid pd, or penalize oppo incorrectly, so usually if I
: have a constructive or less hand, I'd like to double with S tolerance. Here
: with extreme shape, if pd bids 2S, which may not promise extra S, I have a
: comfortable retreat to 3C. Also if pd has nothing to bid and passed the
: double with 4, maybe that is not the end of the world either.
: I'm not someone to fine tune game invitations -- you either upgrade or
: downgrade, and usually for competitive bidding, there's already enough signs
: . By creating an invitation, if you cannot decide earlier, you cannot decide
|
C*****9
发帖数: 147 | 22 You hit home run. 5C是最佳定约，你小赢10imp。而且回头打5H，你DA后一顿长考，
又把敌人打晕，现在还没醒呢，打911?
【在 m****r 的大作中提到】
: 最后结果到底怎么了? 我的400算不算50%以上?
|
w****b
发帖数: 623 | 23 Hands like AQJxx x ATxx Qxx is exactly something I'd protect. Consider this:
in a sequence like 1S-2D-p-p-? you certainly have no more business to make
any noise and you'll have to pass. Your side are cold for 4C so selling out
to 2D won't be a success, double or not.
On the other hand, with A's, no structure in D, just 4D, this hand has no
business of passing 2Dx. This is what I refer to that usually pd should have
some tolerance of S when x with minimum value. I'd bid 2S now. And pd can
comfortably bid 3C.
If your hand is AQxxx x ATxxx Qx, by all means, pass the double.
partner
.
level
-5
much
【在 p***r 的大作中提到】
: If partner never passes the double, double certainly looks good. If partner
: passes double with 4 or sometimes even 3, you are in serious trouble.
: For example, partner may hold a very normal looking AQJxx x ATxx Qxx, it's
: almost impossible to beat 2D double and very often, they make an overtrick
: without any games on. This is a major disaster you should try to avoid IMO.
: In some sense, the takeout double can never be based on too much shape and
: too little defensive values. That's also why one should overcall at 2 level
: more frequently, way more than the main stream experts do.
: It's actually unlike the situation of opening bids. If you open 1 M with 6-5
: shape and 8 HCPs, your partner usually wouldn't penalize your opps too much
|
C*****9
发帖数: 147 | 24 K JT9xx x JTxxxx
在2副水平X的确总体牌力不足，最担心同伴罚放。但Pass也有不放心处，1是同伴可
能有3张D不能T_O，你们配合被关；2是如果同伴T_O，你的牌也难以表达。
我是对2D作了X，但同伴3D后我同意wimptb的4C好，既然3D已经要进局，我当时叫
的3H在方向性和描述性上都不好。
JTxxx AQx A KQxx
1s 2D x P
?
你会叫什么?
partner
.
level
-5
much
【在 p***r 的大作中提到】
: If partner never passes the double, double certainly looks good. If partner
: passes double with 4 or sometimes even 3, you are in serious trouble.
: For example, partner may hold a very normal looking AQJxx x ATxx Qxx, it's
: almost impossible to beat 2D double and very often, they make an overtrick
: without any games on. This is a major disaster you should try to avoid IMO.
: In some sense, the takeout double can never be based on too much shape and
: too little defensive values. That's also why one should overcall at 2 level
: more frequently, way more than the main stream experts do.
: It's actually unlike the situation of opening bids. If you open 1 M with 6-5
: shape and 8 HCPs, your partner usually wouldn't penalize your opps too much
|
v**********e
发帖数: 1295 | 25 4C looks like a slam try here...
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: K JT9xx x JTxxxx
: 在2副水平X的确总体牌力不足，最担心同伴罚放。但Pass也有不放心处，1是同伴可
: 能有3张D不能T_O，你们配合被关；2是如果同伴T_O，你的牌也难以表达。
: 我是对2D作了X，但同伴3D后我同意wimptb的4C好，既然3D已经要进局，我当时叫
: 的3H在方向性和描述性上都不好。
: JTxxx AQx A KQxx
: 1s 2D x P
: ?
: 你会叫什么?
:
|
b***y
发帖数: 2804 | 26 怎么又变成IMP了，不是说MP吗？5C在MP是很差的定约，跟4H相比。
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: You hit home run. 5C是最佳定约，你小赢10imp。而且回头打5H，你DA后一顿长考，
: 又把敌人打晕，现在还没醒呢，打911?
|
p***r
发帖数: 20570 | 27 Oh well, I thought you pass partner's takeout double more aggressively than I
do!
this:
make
out
have
【在 w****b 的大作中提到】
: Hands like AQJxx x ATxx Qxx is exactly something I'd protect. Consider this:
: in a sequence like 1S-2D-p-p-? you certainly have no more business to make
: any noise and you'll have to pass. Your side are cold for 4C so selling out
: to 2D won't be a success, double or not.
: On the other hand, with A's, no structure in D, just 4D, this hand has no
: business of passing 2Dx. This is what I refer to that usually pd should have
: some tolerance of S when x with minimum value. I'd bid 2S now. And pd can
: comfortably bid 3C.
: If your hand is AQxxx x ATxxx Qx, by all means, pass the double.
:
|
b***y
发帖数: 2804 | 28 不可能了。真有满贯兴趣的牌，４张红心带一梅花强套，前面早就２Ｃ起步，不会去加
倍了。
【在 v**********e 的大作中提到】
: 4C looks like a slam try here...
|
b***y
发帖数: 2804 | 29 ３Ｄ没啥问题。
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: K JT9xx x JTxxxx
: 在2副水平X的确总体牌力不足，最担心同伴罚放。但Pass也有不放心处，1是同伴可
: 能有3张D不能T_O，你们配合被关；2是如果同伴T_O，你的牌也难以表达。
: 我是对2D作了X，但同伴3D后我同意wimptb的4C好，既然3D已经要进局，我当时叫
: 的3H在方向性和描述性上都不好。
: JTxxx AQx A KQxx
: 1s 2D x P
: ?
: 你会叫什么?
:
|
p***r
发帖数: 20570 | 30 This is a 3D bid and later raise 3H to 4H. 3C is nonforcing.
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: K JT9xx x JTxxxx
: 在2副水平X的确总体牌力不足，最担心同伴罚放。但Pass也有不放心处，1是同伴可
: 能有3张D不能T_O，你们配合被关；2是如果同伴T_O，你的牌也难以表达。
: 我是对2D作了X，但同伴3D后我同意wimptb的4C好，既然3D已经要进局，我当时叫
: 的3H在方向性和描述性上都不好。
: JTxxx AQx A KQxx
: 1s 2D x P
: ?
: 你会叫什么?
:
|
|
|
p***r
发帖数: 20570 | 31 Also, playing against this style, one gotta overcall at 2 level frequently.
than I
【在 p***r 的大作中提到】
: Oh well, I thought you pass partner's takeout double more aggressively than I
: do!
:
: this:
: make
: out
: have
|
b***y
发帖数: 2804 | 32 在他的体系中显然应该４Ｃ，在你的体系下就不那么确定。因为他的体系中３Ｈ是自然
进局逼叫，３Ｄ否认四张红心。４Ｃ之后同伴可以叫４Ｈ表示三张红心支持。你的体系
下４Ｃ之后同伴很难叫，如果持５＝３＝３＝２牌型。
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: K JT9xx x JTxxxx
: 在2副水平X的确总体牌力不足，最担心同伴罚放。但Pass也有不放心处，1是同伴可
: 能有3张D不能T_O，你们配合被关；2是如果同伴T_O，你的牌也难以表达。
: 我是对2D作了X，但同伴3D后我同意wimptb的4C好，既然3D已经要进局，我当时叫
: 的3H在方向性和描述性上都不好。
: JTxxx AQx A KQxx
: 1s 2D x P
: ?
: 你会叫什么?
:
|
C*****9
发帖数: 147 | 33 被RHO的将牌罚了不算太可怕，overcall最怕是被后面的将牌卡住。所以这个不能是
大concern。
.
【在 p***r 的大作中提到】
: Also, playing against this style, one gotta overcall at 2 level frequently.
:
: than I
|
C*****9
发帖数: 147 | 34 如果3D用于表示高限进局的牌，这里叫3C也是可以的，也需要有额外牌力(因为X不
保证C)。后面5C叫得比较可怕，毕竟存在重大误解的可能。
【在 p***r 的大作中提到】
: This is a 3D bid and later raise 3H to 4H. 3C is nonforcing.
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b***y
发帖数: 2804 | 35 ３Ｃ主要是牌型，比方５－５即便是低限也应该叫３Ｃ。总之不逼叫。
５Ｃ就不提了，不仅是误解（理论上应该梅花缺门），就算表示实叫梅花，也是非常错
误的。有可能是放着低一阶的８－９张配合的红心成局定约不打，却在五阶去做一个４
－２配的梅花定约。同伴就不可能是２＝５＝４＝２牌型？
【在 C*****9 的大作中提到】
: 如果3D用于表示高限进局的牌，这里叫3C也是可以的，也需要有额外牌力(因为X不
: 保证C)。后面5C叫得比较可怕，毕竟存在重大误解的可能。
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