n******n
发帖数: 12088 | 1 听说VUL是个法律上看不错的产品，但是里面的trick很多。能不能自己组合出一套类似
的东西？
就像看着MF的portfolio自己买股票一样。 |
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 2 Of course you can.
You can even home-make a term life. Just save enough and don't
buy insurance.
【在 n******n 的大作中提到】
: 听说VUL是个法律上看不错的产品，但是里面的trick很多。能不能自己组合出一套类似
: 的东西？
: 就像看着MF的portfolio自己买股票一样。
|
n******n
发帖数: 12088 | 3 开啥玩笑.你这个建议是我home ipo股票.
VUL的资产保全和避税特性很不错，但里面的基金太烂太贵。那我们不能自己搞一套类
似的东西么？
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Of course you can.
: You can even home-make a term life. Just save enough and don't
: buy insurance.
|
s*******d
发帖数: 126 | 4 I completely agree with the notion that VUL has tricks that are designed to
benefit the sellers/providers more than the buyers.
life insurance is life insurance, investement is investement, and they
should be seperated - there is no way to make something out of nothing. You
can buy your terms from one company, and investement whatever the monthly
leftover, $120?, with Vanguard or somewhere. You can almost certainly do
better, and the gain is the fees you won't be paying to the VUL insurance
prov
【在 n******n 的大作中提到】
: 听说VUL是个法律上看不错的产品，但是里面的trick很多。能不能自己组合出一套类似
: 的东西？
: 就像看着MF的portfolio自己买股票一样。
|
b****e
发帖数: 460 | 5 http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/VULReport0203.pdf
金融产品越简单，做该产品的公司面临的竞争就越多，赚得就越少。30年房贷，Term
life，大家全一样，剩下的就是价格竞争。
而VUL这种比较拐弯抹角的就可以随便忽悠了，因为利润率高，也是金融公司比较爱推
广的。
【在 n******n 的大作中提到】
: 听说VUL是个法律上看不错的产品，但是里面的trick很多。能不能自己组合出一套类似
: 的东西？
: 就像看着MF的portfolio自己买股票一样。
|
n******n
发帖数: 12088 | 6 普通投资没有财产保全和避税啊。
VUL的这俩功能怎么来的？我们能否创建适当法律实体起到类似作用？这是我想讨论的。
【在 b****e 的大作中提到】
: http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/VULReport0203.pdf
: 金融产品越简单，做该产品的公司面临的竞争就越多，赚得就越少。30年房贷，Term
: life，大家全一样，剩下的就是价格竞争。
: 而VUL这种比较拐弯抹角的就可以随便忽悠了，因为利润率高，也是金融公司比较爱推
: 广的。
|
b****e
发帖数: 460 | 7 vul避税的原理很简单，就是通过把投资放入死亡保险的方式把财产转移到下一代，从
而逃避遗产税和利得税
但是条目复杂，一旦进入难以抽身，风险比较大
像一般的term life，保险公司没什么手脚可做，保单的条款都是一样的，剩下的就是
价格竞争。
而像VUL，透明度低，甚至两份vul谁贵谁便宜谁好谁坏我们都分不清。这就给保险公司
提供了忽悠的空间。于是vul的老鼠会就出现了。
的。
【在 n******n 的大作中提到】
: 普通投资没有财产保全和避税啊。
: VUL的这俩功能怎么来的？我们能否创建适当法律实体起到类似作用？这是我想讨论的。
|
s*******d
发帖数: 126 | 8 does this suggest that term life + low-cost index-fund based variable
annuity would be better than VUL, in general?
【在 b****e 的大作中提到】
: vul避税的原理很简单，就是通过把投资放入死亡保险的方式把财产转移到下一代，从
: 而逃避遗产税和利得税
: 但是条目复杂，一旦进入难以抽身，风险比较大
: 像一般的term life，保险公司没什么手脚可做，保单的条款都是一样的，剩下的就是
: 价格竞争。
: 而像VUL，透明度低，甚至两份vul谁贵谁便宜谁好谁坏我们都分不清。这就给保险公司
: 提供了忽悠的空间。于是vul的老鼠会就出现了。
:
: 的。
|
|
b****e
发帖数: 460 | 9 I am not saying term life + mutual fund is better than VUL. In certain
conditions, VUL may end up better than alternatives. I am saying the terms
in VUL make me uncomfortable. For example, with a term life contract, if I
want to stop the contract today, I can stop it, and I am done with it. With
a mutual fund, if I want to quit that fund, I can quit anytime, all I need
is to pay a moderate fee and tax. With VUL, to keep that contract, the
monthly payment is undetermined, and if I want to quit wi
【在 s*******d 的大作中提到】
: does this suggest that term life + low-cost index-fund based variable
: annuity would be better than VUL, in general?
|
s*******d
发帖数: 126 | 10 I didn't mean mutual funds, rather annuity with tax-deferred growth and
possible death benefits. But I see that this is besides the point you are
trying to make.
I am not a fan of VUL neither and I don't quite understand how it works. I
was trying to make a comparison (term life + annuity) to understand the
product better. But it sounds like there is more to a simple combination of
term + tax-deferred investement + death benefits with VUL...
Isn't the point of surrender fees to get invested mone
【在 b****e 的大作中提到】
: I am not saying term life + mutual fund is better than VUL. In certain
: conditions, VUL may end up better than alternatives. I am saying the terms
: in VUL make me uncomfortable. For example, with a term life contract, if I
: want to stop the contract today, I can stop it, and I am done with it. With
: a mutual fund, if I want to quit that fund, I can quit anytime, all I need
: is to pay a moderate fee and tax. With VUL, to keep that contract, the
: monthly payment is undetermined, and if I want to quit wi
|
|
|
b****e
发帖数: 460 | 11 I don't know anything about variable annuity. I've heard that it is another
kind of lousy contract.
If there is $500 balance in the VUL account, and if your surrender charge is
more than that, they won't ask you for money when you cancel the policy.
But, you get nothing left, either. $500 is ok to most of us, but if I
initially put $300,000 as investment funds in the VUL account only to find
out if I cancel it during the first year, I will get only about $200,000, I
will be mad definitely.
of
3
【在 s*******d 的大作中提到】
: I didn't mean mutual funds, rather annuity with tax-deferred growth and
: possible death benefits. But I see that this is besides the point you are
: trying to make.
: I am not a fan of VUL neither and I don't quite understand how it works. I
: was trying to make a comparison (term life + annuity) to understand the
: product better. But it sounds like there is more to a simple combination of
: term + tax-deferred investement + death benefits with VUL...
: Isn't the point of surrender fees to get invested mone
|
n******n
发帖数: 12088 | 12 不是还可以自己拿出来用么。
【在 b****e 的大作中提到】
: vul避税的原理很简单，就是通过把投资放入死亡保险的方式把财产转移到下一代，从
: 而逃避遗产税和利得税
: 但是条目复杂，一旦进入难以抽身，风险比较大
: 像一般的term life，保险公司没什么手脚可做，保单的条款都是一样的，剩下的就是
: 价格竞争。
: 而像VUL，透明度低，甚至两份vul谁贵谁便宜谁好谁坏我们都分不清。这就给保险公司
: 提供了忽悠的空间。于是vul的老鼠会就出现了。
:
: 的。
|
b****e
发帖数: 460 | 13 是的，VUL什么都能做
【在 n******n 的大作中提到】
: 不是还可以自己拿出来用么。
|
s*****n
发帖数: 2174 | 14 for most people and most cases, yes.
【在 s*******d 的大作中提到】
: does this suggest that term life + low-cost index-fund based variable
: annuity would be better than VUL, in general?
|
n******n
发帖数: 12088 | 15 什么叫“什么都能做”？
【在 b****e 的大作中提到】
: 是的，VUL什么都能做
|
b****e
发帖数: 460 | 16 就是想拿出来就拿出来，想放进去就放进去
想给孩子就给孩子，想给自己就给自己
问题是成本有多少
【在 n******n 的大作中提到】
: 什么叫“什么都能做”？
|
n******n
发帖数: 12088 | 17 成本可以通过DIY降低啊。这不是在讨论可行性么。比如设个trust啥的，破产了别人也
动不了，像辛普森那样。这益处还是很明显的。
你说的死亡保险，受益人不能是自己吧。
【在 b****e 的大作中提到】
: 就是想拿出来就拿出来，想放进去就放进去
: 想给孩子就给孩子，想给自己就给自己
: 问题是成本有多少
|
b****e
发帖数: 460 | 18 我说vul什么都能做的意思是跟一般的传统保险产品相比较
【在 n******n 的大作中提到】
: 成本可以通过DIY降低啊。这不是在讨论可行性么。比如设个trust啥的，破产了别人也
: 动不了，像辛普森那样。这益处还是很明显的。
: 你说的死亡保险，受益人不能是自己吧。
|
