b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 1 我说的逐渐增加是season to season, year to year的，不是一个training plan里的。
例如第一年peak 55mpw，第二年peak 70mpw，第三年peak 85mpw，第四年peak 100mpw。
而且增加的mileage大部分是low end aerobic run/recovery run，
大概65%-75%最大心跳，对我来说是120-140bpm。 |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 2 i ran some aerobic runs with HR below 155 this week.
on Tuesday, while i was still recovering from the ultra,
i struggled to run faster than 8:30/mi.
today, i felt surprisingly ok, ran most of the miles under 7:30/mi.
without HRM, even ran with my heart, i would have doubts:
why the hell am i so slow/fast. |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 3 today my HR 155 run finally dipped down to BQ pace.
warmed up at 9:08, 8:36, 7:52,
then i ran an hour of aerobic run with HR below 155 (82.5%)
7:18, 7:16, 7:08, turn back, 7:15, 7:19, 7:18, 7:25, 7:14
instead of hammering it at the end,
i let it cool down at the final 0.66mi at 8:38.
it's in the middle of 80+mpw, and i am doing it twice per week.
i know i am in better shape than i was in LAM already,
but i don't want it to peak yet.
i am hoping to build an even better base for the CIM training. |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 4 发现很多地方都做错了，比如说recovery run和general aerobic run跑得太快，
严重影响到MLR/Long/M Pace/Lactate的质量。
另外最后四周前的time trial(Pasadena HM)跑得太尽，后来都没有完全恢复。
我面壁去了... |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 5 I can't be compared with tuoniao... I've learned a lot from reading tuoniao'
s logs. The reason I chose longer training cycles is because it takes a long
time(lifetime) to develop one's aerobic ability and endurance, which is the
base for everything else.
For ameteur marathoners like us, two peaks per year is good enough: 4-12
weeks for base, 12-18 weeks for marathon training, and 2-4 weeks for
recovery.
For many professional runners, especially tri-athletes, they only plan one
major race a year |
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w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 6 whether it's aerobic or anaerobic depends on your fitness level. For example
, running 10mph is anaerobic for most people, but is only recovery run speed
for elite runners. |
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g*****r
发帖数: 4444 | 7 为什么10mph还是anaerobic？ 很快了啊。you mean aerobic?
example
speed |
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q*c
发帖数: 1172 | 8 心跳快是无氧区。
Aerobic Zone
* This zone is from 70-80% of your maximum heart rate.
Anaerobic Zone - Threshold Zone
* This zone is 80 to 90% of your maximum heart rate.
Maximum hear rate = 220- your age |
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q*c
发帖数: 1172 | 9 如果没有有氧代谢，人体血液中的糖分大概能支撑两到三个小时，对于竞技运动员，可
以支撑他们完成一个马拉松。对于普通人来说，长距离跑步还是尽量stay aerobic.
than |
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A***a
发帖数: 1799 | 10 aerobic ability is all about lactate acid tolerance.....ie. how you can
process and tolerate it. |
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q*c
发帖数: 1172 | 11 为什么这帮人心跳这么快还能keep aerobic? 训练还是gene?
than |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 12 Comfort, man. You need some time to forget about this marathon.
About training, i don't think you need to train even harder. marathons are
quite different from 5k. You cannot rush it. Sharpening trainings can only
give you a peak for 1-2 months. Push it any harder, your aerobic ability and
endurance may deteriorate. |
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w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 13 today's tempo sucked, only managed 6:43 on a 4-mile stretch in a 9-mile
session. still need some more time to recover from the marathon. in my past
experience, my aerobic fitness only come back to the normal level 2.5 weeks
after a marathon race. |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 14 i agree. those are only better than none, or to improve one's weakness areas.
actually running and boxing are quite similiar.
they both require aerobic ability, muscle endurance and speed.
is
how
strong |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 16 我自己的easy run或者general aerobic大概是MP-90"到MP-30"。可以天天跑。
recovery run则慢很多，可以MP-3'到MP-90"。
高质量的tempo/long run是一天都恢复不过来的，AM上说是4-5天，
所以不能天天跑或者隔天跑。 |
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w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 17 That was only three weeks. It was good, although it might be too short to
see significant improvement in aerobic fitness.
I don't imagine blood doping is so simple. You gotta make sure the blood is
as good as it was when you inject it back in. Blood transfusion is no child'
s play. Don't catch weird diseases.:) |
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T********e
发帖数: 8631 | 18 Didn't realize this is running board. But still, half an hour high
intensity running should be sufficient. And do some core strength and upper
body aerobic to balance it out.
Of course, I assume an average person has no more than two hours a day for
exercise. If you do, I envy you. |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 19 80%maxHR or 80%HR reserve?
my recovery runs are under 70% maxHR, or 62% HR reserve.
most part of my general aerobic runs, medium long runs and long runs are
under 80% max HR, or 74% HR reserve.
Marathon pace runs are around 85% max HR or 80% HR reserve. |
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d**c
发帖数: 588 | 20 no matter how slow i run, i end up with >75% HRmax, which suggests i have
poor aerobic fitness. thanks for sharing. i will read the articles carefully
. this will be very helpful. |
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d****i
发帖数: 4354 | 21 The fun thing about MAF style low-heart-rate training is that the test done
at MAF heart rate correlate with race performance quite well:
======================= Quote =========================================
Data gathered on hundreds of runners over several years made it evident that
the pace a runner could perform at aerobic maximum pace was positively
correlated with race pace. The chart below, based on actual data,
illustrates the relationship between MAF and 5K-race performance.
MAF 5K 5K |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 22 Something like 6x800m @5k race pace with 50%-90% recovery time between
intervals. Yes, we all do it. It helps to increase VO2max and anaerobic
capacity.
(not much on aerobic capacity though) |
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S*********k
发帖数: 507 | 23 说是自己 70% 的 aerobic activity capacity, 速度怎么估算？有什么 rule of
thumb 么？ |
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w********6
发帖数: 12977 | 24 Recently there is a study by US government for the recommended 30 min
aerobic exercise proposed long time ago by US health.
The study shows that actually, 30 min is not enough, 60 min everyday is what
you need to have a significant benefit.
The study also shows beyond a certain limit, the benefit is no long
significant. |
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q*c
发帖数: 1172 | 25 ...Your aerobic system provides about 95 percent of the energy used in a 5K
race and more than 99 percent of the energy for a marathon
learned. |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 26 not exactly, base building improves your ability to produce energy
AEROBICALLY,
by burning fat more efficiently.
VO2max workouts are usually excluded in base training. |
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y******n
发帖数: 4527 | 27 深表怀疑啊...
这种意念性的东东到底有多少用，就仁者见仁了。
我觉得归根结底，running economy还是提高有效利用氧气的能力，根据其定义。所以
大量的aerobical run和long run，应该会提高running economy。
蝶" |
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d****s
发帖数: 174 | 28 It's very attractive to try the LHR training especially to avoid injuries.
But I don't understand why the fast workout or race will reduce the effect
of aerobic building, which is contradicted with the low pharse to mix the
LHR and workingout. |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 29 For mortals like us, it's safer to be patient in base training, build up the
the aerobic capacity first, then go to a peak and race cycle, and back and
forth. We all improve like a spiral, not linear progression. Of course, if
you are like Emil Zapotek, you can ignore these traditional "wisdoms"...
built |
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r***e
发帖数: 2000 | 30 到最后也没有人回答原来的问题：“why the fast workout
or race will reduce the effect of aerobic building”？
我很想知道答案。 |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 31 when i am running at easy or aerobic pace, my mind is totally free, i can be
either observing the world around me, or daydreaming, or listening to a
audio book.
when i have to put some concentration on my pace, i will be already in the
marathon pace zone. |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 32 嗯，你说的这个规律很好理解。
我说的则是在一个训练周期内的规律，假设上赛季你15k PR 1:00。然后经过all out
race，recovery，开始新的训练周期，这时你会发现，aerobic capacity退步了，LT退
步得更快，你LT 4mi run只能跑6:45的pace，你要重新build endurance，重新训练LT
，才会慢慢接近6:26或者更快。
.8。
了。 |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 33 单靠VO2max还是不行的，pump的血不是全部都能通过毛细血管去到肌肉的，这些要base
training来练aerobic capacity。
//heat acclimatization则是另一回事 |
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y******n
发帖数: 4527 | 35 aerobic run 1-1.5小时应该不错了。
I think，如果你跑一跑interval，心脏pump血液的量会相应提高，然后跑long run提
高economy，那么75%心跳的情况下，速度自然也会慢慢提高。但是这只能由里程/时间
来换。 |
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f****e
发帖数: 553 | 36 merino contains lanolin which has antibacterial properties.
From wiki.
Merino wool is common in high-end, performance athletic wear. Typically
meant for use running, hiking, skiing, mountain climbing, cycling, and in
other types of outdoor aerobic exercise, these clothes command a premium
over synthetic fabrics.
Several properties contribute to merino's popularity for exercise clothing,
compared to wool in general and to other types of fabric.
* Merino is excellent at regulating body tempera |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 37 在我log里是Aerobic 155。它甚至比MP还要慢，但是也有乳酸积累。就是Hadd base
training里面的initial lactate threshold heart rate ILTHR run. |
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d****i
发帖数: 4354 | 38 举例我2009的经历，当然可能我本身aerobic程度比较差，不具代表性：
MAF tests
date first-mile-pace
1/10/2009 13:22
2/1/2009 14:00
2/15/2009 12:08
3/15/2009 11:26
实际上从年初开始练起，第一次测试不是很标准，从第二次测试开始比较标准。三个月pace提高了2分钟多吧。
３月２９号10K比赛跑了54'22。到10K比赛之前一直只练LHR。这个成绩本身不咋的，但是对照我个人2004年跑步的经验就显出其有效性。２００４也是练了三个多月，10K只跑了55'49，还是年轻了５岁，呵呵。
当然，去年后来停止跑步了，否则今年的基础就不错了。
LHR训练并不是要你一直都跑LHR，但是至少要坚持个6周以上才见效比较明显。之后tempo, speed work都可以上，完全不矛盾。
用LHR训练未必进步最快，但是他有几点好处：
１．纯有氧，理论上应该有理发展跑步的有氧代谢能力，这个只能说个人信不信了。
２.燃烧脂肪比例较大，这个应该对降低胆固醇也很有效，跑完比较舒服。
３.强度不高，不容易受伤。 |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 39 zz from letsrun.com
The whole MAP portion is only one part of the puzzle.
He also says that one to two times a week you should do either downhill
repeats or downhill runs on a hill that is not too steep and to focus on
turning over while maintaining your aerobic HR.
After you plateau on the MAF test then you can introduce faster running. |
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j******e
发帖数: 129 | 40 由于很久没运动，再加上大体重（170 lb）,开跑一个多月来，一直很慢的在跑，积累
里程。里程增加也遵循10%的原则。
最近看了advanced marathoning, 准备用18周计划训练。
前天按照第一周的计划，跑了8 miles的general aerobic run, 速度很慢，10分pace。
最后1000m,按照书上的计划，进行10*100m的stride。由于没有经验，当时做stride,以
为是速度练习，基本上all out。
第二天，本来应该是11 miles的medium-long run,跑前stretch的时候，就感觉右脚脚
后跟比较紧。当时，没有太注意，然后就跑了6 miles。这个时候出问题了，脚后跟很
疼，基本上不能跑了，走路都疼。
请问，需要去看医生吗？怎么能比较快的恢复？是plantar fasciitis吗？是不是由于
我以前一直跑的很慢，现在一下尝试stride练习，导致脚跟疼的？
比较悲剧的是，最近刚买了跑鞋，结果就不能跑了，哎。。。
看到精华区，有两个相关的文章，试过的人能否谈谈效果如何？
http://www.mitbbs.com/bbsa |
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z*****a
发帖数: 9790 | 41 co不明白，为啥我的AM plan 都是8mile general aerobic后面接recovery run? |
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j******e
发帖数: 129 | 42 根据advanced marathoning 的说法，
"For most runners, the optimal intensity range for these runs is about 15 to
25 percent slower than marathon race pace." （page 141, 2nd edition）
如果我的目标marathon race pace是9 min/mi,那么general aerobic runs 的pace应该
在10:21 per mi or 11:15 per mi。
我现在的pace和我的目标应该是不矛盾的吧？
请版主指点。 |
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y******n
发帖数: 4527 | 43 今天10迈aerobic，从第6迈开始在跑道上进行。跑了两迈觉得右边大腿根有点痛，于是
换成光脚跑。只跑了一迈，有点咯的慌，但是大腿根不痛了。后来穿上鞋，又跑了一迈
。pace快了1min，心跳几乎相同，神奇吧。
感觉光脚之后的那一迈巨轻松，可能是刚穿上鞋，但还保留了光脚时的form，感觉如同
一只踩着球的狗熊，只是踩的是地球，滚的非常smooth。
数据如下，
Mile# time ave maxHR
Mile 6 9:01.54 152 159
Mile 7 9:05.88 151 159
Mile 8 9:29.43 144 160 bare foot
Mile 9 8:24.49 148 162
However, 这可能只是一个巧合，bare foot没这么神奇。只是一个有意思的实验。 |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 45 这个表挺准的。
我爸60岁，他平时都是用8km/h左右跑的，心率130以下。
我recovery run都在"weight control" zone，
easy run, medium-long, long run大部分在aerobic zone，
marathon pace, tempo在anaerobic zone，
interval在vo2max zone。
当然每个人的最大心率不一样，如果你不是最大心率特别高的话，那你easyrun跑太快了 |
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y******n
发帖数: 4527 | 46 今天算是破天荒的起个大早，专门为了跑步，6:15起床，收拾完毕都快6:50了才出门，
汗一个。温度还行，湿度较大，太阳已经出了。
这周是AM plan的第6周，前5周按照18周的计划练，这周换到12周的第8周。前几周可能
是太热了，medium long总是不是按数完成，导致volume一直比计划低个几迈。这周终
于凉快下来了，mileague终于上去了，接近50 mpw，下周是recovery，而且要搬家；破
50要留到几周之后了。
12周的plan一个好处是中间有个medium long，这周刚好跟在tempo后面。虽然目前为止
tempo才跑了两次，隐隐然感觉提高了不少，我还是喜欢tempo这种比较push的training
。aerobic虽然也不错，但是跑长了会感觉整个身体很跎，很累。
anyway，今天的18迈long，从距离和时间上看还是挺爽的，又一次个人新高，完成时间
2:28。mile split: 9:45, 8:39, 8:39, 8:31, 8:18, 8:23, 8:12, 8:24, 7:49, 7:55, 7:50, 7:55, 7:52, 7:50, 8 |
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g****l
发帖数: 644 | 47 VO2 is your oxygen consumption, VO2max is the max - an indicator of your
aerobic capacity
可是，你游泳跑步都那么猛，2000米的游，15迈的跑
你的VO2max肯定比45要高，心率根本就没有push上去
我记得我25岁的时候两年没锻炼过，肥到BMI 26，VO2max还有43
下次换个treadmill的再测测
我觉得你应该是50以上 :P
小时 |
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w****1
发帖数: 4931 | 48 There is no such thing as unbearable weather for runners. Runners can run in
all conditions. However, the
performance will be limited. So for speed work or marathon pace runs, I'd
move indoors if the weather is hot
and humid. But if it's just a generic aerobic run, there is no excuse.
always |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 49 不算高强度...才1.5mi@tempo pace，之前的都是warm up.
MAF stands for "maximum aerobic function" and it is defined in the Maffetone
and Mark Allen articles.
i think denali has done some 5 miles MAF tests before. |
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b***i
发帖数: 10018 | 50 exactly. easy runs in AM are called general aerobic runs, which can get
quite fast when you feel good. i seldom go to tempo pace though, unless it's
downhill.:)
btw, hope you are not having AT.
I
easiest
, let him/her go.:) |
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